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View Full Version : WBC to be canceled if USA doesn't allow Cuba?


WhiteSoxFan84
01-07-2006, 03:42 AM
Baseball's world governing body has threatened to withdraw its sanctioning of the World Baseball Classic, with its championships planned for San Diego's Petco Park in March, unless the Bush administration allows Cuba to compete.

Rich Levin, a spokesman for the commissioner's office, said Friday that a letter was faxed from International Baseball Federation President Aldo Notari, informing Major League Baseball of the federation's decision.


Linky (http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/baseball/20060106-1812-bbi-classic-cuba.html)

downstairs
01-07-2006, 08:19 AM
Hey... whatever goofy reason they need to cancel it is fine by me.

This will go down as a plain ol' dumb idea if it actually gets off the ground.

They *could* have done it right... the concept is a great one. But they need to make it work like the World Cup in soccer... where each country is represented by players who live in and are citizens of that country.

Nation vs. nation (in a friendly way, that is) is what makes the World Cup so dramatic.

Mickster
01-07-2006, 09:27 AM
Withdrawing a sanction and cancelling a tournament are two entirely different concepts.

mantis1212
01-07-2006, 11:06 AM
No kidding. Does this "International Baseball Federation" have any relevence in the first place?

1951Campbell
01-07-2006, 11:18 AM
What excuse it takes, just cancel the damn thing.

ilsox7
01-07-2006, 12:09 PM
No kidding. Does this "International Baseball Federation" have any relevence in the first place?

Better question: Does the WBC have any relevance at all? No.

TomBradley72
01-07-2006, 12:19 PM
I'm not sure why.....but the WBC is like the "Hands Across America" of baseball...interesting idea...will be a train wreck when it's actually executed. I hope it's cancelled....(look a bunch of predominantly non-MLB players are playing for some meaningless championship in March!)....nobody really wants it....

Stroker Ace
01-07-2006, 12:23 PM
If a useless baseball tournement is cancelled and no one cares about it, did it ever exist?

Lip Man 1
01-07-2006, 12:47 PM
Good. may this farce die a quick death.

Lip

itsnotrequired
01-07-2006, 01:00 PM
No kidding. Does this "International Baseball Federation" have any relevence in the first place?

Actually, it does. It is the governing body for international baseball contests. Sort of like the Olympic Committee. It the IBAF pulls its sanction and teams do not drop out, they could be banned from future international events. That may not matter to MLB players but for countries that are trying to get their programs off the ground, they would be fools to risk future setbacks by playing in the WBC.

SOXSINCE'70
01-07-2006, 01:03 PM
Good. may this farce die a quick death.

Lip

Here are 2 baseball players who also chose to withdraw
from "Nutty Buddy's" spring farce.:cool: :cool: :cool:

:burly :iguchi:

Exit_Only
01-07-2006, 01:05 PM
Linky (http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/baseball/20060106-1812-bbi-classic-cuba.html)

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/_photos/2003-07-14-inside-selig.jpg

SOXSINCE'70
01-07-2006, 01:09 PM
What excuse it takes, just cancel the damn thing.
I Couldn't agree with you more.This is a useless contest.
At least it is in my eyes.The last thing any White Sox fan
wants to see is injuries to these players:
:garcia: :burly :iguchi:

MarySwiss
01-07-2006, 01:14 PM
I really have no interest whatsoever in this WBC thing, but I just thought I'd mention that the Arizona Republic had an article this morning about how the WBC will probably hurt Cactus League teams. I'll be surprised if that turns out to be the case.

flo-B-flo
01-07-2006, 02:23 PM
If they were gonna do this, why not do it AFTER the world series? A couple weeks of competition then away they go until spring training.

WhiteSoxFan84
01-07-2006, 02:27 PM
I Couldn't agree with you more.This is a useless contest.
At least it is in my eyes.The last thing any White Sox fan
wants to see is injuries to these players:
:garcia: :burly :iguchi:


What about Arnie Munoz?? Do you not care about Arnie?!?

PaleHoseGeorge
01-07-2006, 02:29 PM
Geez, why all the hostility for this event? It's not like spring training is going to be damaged by any of this. It's good for the sport and in the end that's all that's important.

Nobody would much care about baseball in February if they weren't holding this tournament. Frankly the month of February can use as much help as possible. Hockey, basketball, pro wrestling and Nascar just don't do it for me.

How about some love for the sport of baseball? NFL Europe is already 1000-times "dumber" than this event will ever be.

WhiteSoxFan84
01-07-2006, 02:32 PM
Geez, why all the hostility for this event? It's not like spring training is going to be damaged by any of this. It's good for the sport and in the end that's all that's important.

Nobody would much care about baseball in February if they weren't holding this tournament. Frankly the month of February can use as much help as possible. Hockey, basketball, pro wrestling and Nascar just don't do it for me.

How about some love for the sport of baseball? NFL Europe is already 1000-times "dumber" than this event will ever be.

I agree with PHG. Why do you guys hate something that hasn't even taken place yet? Give it a chance. I

can relate this to a movie I saw recently. Some of you may have seen the first Saw. The story was very good but the acting was horrible. So when Saw II came out, a lot of people were thinking it was going to be horrible. Turns out to be better than the first one and much better acting.

WhiteSoxFan84
01-07-2006, 02:36 PM
Tadahito takes himself out of WBC (http://http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=993407#post993407).

Thread is under Sox Clubhouse.

SABRSox
01-07-2006, 02:47 PM
Geez, why all the hostility for this event? It's not like spring training is going to be damaged by any of this. It's good for the sport and in the end that's all that's important.

Nobody would much care about baseball in February if they weren't holding this tournament. Frankly the month of February can use as much help as possible. Hockey, basketball, pro wrestling and Nascar just don't do it for me.

How about some love for the sport of baseball? NFL Europe is already 1000-times "dumber" than this event will ever be.

Seriously. I'd like to see the thing first before making judgements on it.

Milw
01-07-2006, 02:53 PM
I'm looking forward to the WBC. It very well may end up sucking, but who's to say until it happens?

And while I do worry about injuries to Sox players involved, it's no different than the All Star Game in that regard. You cross your fingers and hope everything goes OK, and in the meantime, you take pride that your team's players were chosen for such a big stage.

Lighten up fellas.

WhiteSoxFan84
01-07-2006, 02:56 PM
I'm looking forward to the WBC. It very well may end up sucking, but who's to say until it happens?

And while I do worry about injuries to Sox players involved, it's no different than the All Star Game in that regard. You cross your fingers and hope everything goes OK, and in the meantime, you take pride that your team's players were chosen for such a big stage.

Lighten up fellas.

And isn't baseball, baseball? From November to March, we all carve any kind of baseball action. We will all be so desparate for any kind of baseball, that we may all end up loving this thing.

Fenway
01-07-2006, 02:57 PM
I'm waiting for Selig to decree

"If your country selects you for their roster, you MUST play"

Sox-o-matic
01-07-2006, 03:17 PM
I'm waiting for Selig to decree

"If your country selects you for their roster, you MUST play"

Let me fix that...

"If your country or another country that doesn't have any good baseball players selects you for their roster, you MUST play"

Exit_Only
01-07-2006, 03:25 PM
Geez, why all the hostility for this event? It's not like spring training is going to be damaged by any of this. It's good for the sport and in the end that's all that's important.

Nobody would much care about baseball in February if they weren't holding this tournament. Frankly the month of February can use as much help as possible. Hockey, basketball, pro wrestling and Nascar just don't do it for me.

How about some love for the sport of baseball? NFL Europe is already 1000-times "dumber" than this event will ever be.
How is the WBC good for the sport?

I enjoy following my boys in Spring Training even when they're not playing. Since the WBC takes place during ST, it hurts my enjoyment of the game. I value my normal ST entertainment over baseball winning over new fans in foreign lands.

PaleHoseGeorge
01-07-2006, 03:34 PM
Oh, I forgot to mention one other thing. Spring Training sucks. It exists for exactly one good reason: to get baseball some publicity before opening day.

If they're going to play games, make 'em count. If the games aren't going to count, then do some drills, stretch your arm, work out the kinks and get ready to play games. I.e. games that COUNT.
:mad:

Sheesh... next somebody is going to step up and defend pre-season* NFL football.
:o:

* if anyone in the media calls it for what it truly is, EXHIBITION football, they get called onto the carpet by the NFL commissioner's office.

MRKARNO
01-07-2006, 03:40 PM
Geez, why all the hostility for this event? It's not like spring training is going to be damaged by any of this. It's good for the sport and in the end that's all that's important.

Nobody would much care about baseball in February if they weren't holding this tournament. Frankly the month of February can use as much help as possible. Hockey, basketball, pro wrestling and Nascar just don't do it for me.

How about some love for the sport of baseball? NFL Europe is already 1000-times "dumber" than this event will ever be.

I'm in total agreement. It will be a lot of fun and I think fears of increased change of injury are TOTALLY overblown. Baseball really does need something similar where the pros are competing against each other by country. Basketball and Hockey have this already. Football cant get it because 99% of NFL players are from the US. Baseball needs it.

Baseball is a sport very hostile to change, and I can understand that, but there is nothing about this that screws around with tradition, and from what I know, players who participate in it are not going to be playing any more than those who will play in Spring Training. There will be STRICT pitch count limits on pitchers.

And I think this threat makes it all the more likely that Cuba will be in it and that the event will go on. There may be hostility to Cuba in Congress, but do you think representatives from the Phoenix, Scottsdale, Orlando, Anaheim and San Diego areas are going to be happy about their districts losing out on the tax revenue that these sporting events could bring? The threat of cancellation will be successful at getting Cuba in to the tournament in my view.

Sox-o-matic
01-08-2006, 01:16 AM
Oh, I forgot to mention one other thing. Spring Training sucks. It exists for exactly one good reason: to get baseball some publicity before opening day.

If they're going to play games, make 'em count. If the games aren't going to count, then do some drills, stretch your arm, work out the kinks and get ready to play games. I.e. games that COUNT.
:mad:

???

You don't think a live game scenario helps a coaching staff evaluate players competing for a roster spot? How would you expect to evaulate some of the intangibles like a pitcher's aggressiveness or a hitter's confidence level at the plate in a non-game situation?

The Wall
01-08-2006, 01:39 AM
Good. may this farce die a quick death.

Lip
This is a good idea. But the way MLB has gone about it lends it zero credibility.

IF there has to be a true World Cup for baseball (I shall call it WCB), then MLB has to do what NHL does...take time off of its regular season so that its players can go represent their respective countries. After all, isnt that what all soccer clubs do anyways?

What these silly owners (JR included) dont realize is that if they sacrifice today, they will reap rewards tomorrow. If a player can perform at the world stage in the WCB against a loaded US or DR team, then what makes you think he will not be successful in the majors? Why cant you sign him up for a contract right there??

And monetarily, if WCB is a quarter as successful as its soccer version is over time, then US would get to host most championships simply due to the available infrastructure with high capacity in-stadia revenues coupled with global TV audience, this would be a bigger cash cow than a season's futility in drawing fans to their stadiums for some of the franchises (like the Devil Rays or pirates).

It needs better planning and some compromises from some parties now.

The Racehorse
01-08-2006, 07:20 AM
The WBC concept equates to that schlocky "this land is your land, this land is our land..." song...

... it can't be cancelled soon enough.

PaleHoseGeorge
01-08-2006, 10:00 AM
???

You don't think a live game scenario helps a coaching staff evaluate players competing for a roster spot?

Of course I do. I just don't think you need to fill the entire month of March with these games to figure it out. Most teams have at most five roster spots to decide. The rest is just figuring out who the opening day starters will be. It's not that difficult. Guillen already has over 90 percent of his decisions already made -- and not a single spring training game has been played yet.

You don't need a month of spring training games to decide this stuff anymore than the NFL needs four exhibition games to figure out their roster. Good players get hurt and lost for the season playing these games. Think Rex Grossman (2005) and Robin Ventura (1997) for two prime examples.

Stop the ********. If there is a better way to promote the sport of baseball than ******** exhibition games, let's get on with it. NOBODY has made a serious argument for why the WBC is anything but good publicity for MLB, at least as good as 6 weeks mostly wasted in Florida and Arizona.

TomBradley72
01-08-2006, 10:16 AM
Spring training is an awesome tradition...shouldn't be changed a bit. What's the alternative? start playing in March? I don't see the harm.

I think the WBC is an OK concept...I just don't see how you can implement it effectively around the 7 month MLB season. I'd choose a November tournament over March if I was forced to make a choice.

spiffie
01-08-2006, 10:57 AM
You don't need a month of spring training games to decide this stuff anymore than the NFL needs four exhibition games to figure out their roster. Good players get hurt and lost for the season playing these games. Think Rex Grossman (2005) and Robin Ventura (1997) for two prime examples.
But see, injuries during spring training are different. Those are acceptable because they're playing in Arizona against mostly guys destined for the minor leagues.

I'm glad someone else brought up the World Cup. I shudder to think what would happen if every club decided not to allow its players to go over to that. The fact that all of the best players in the world are involved is why the World Cup is so big.

To me, the bigger you grow your game, the more people it is exposed to and places and groups that get excited about it, the better the game becomes. Imagine baseball without Japanese players. Or without Dominicans. Or Venezuelans. Or black players. Now think of how many places still have so much fertile ground to be cultivated: China, most of South America, Africa, the Middle East...and every time that you can get those areas opened up you get more chances to bring in great talent, and make the game even better. I know it means nothing to us in America, but international competitions get the attention of places that don't care two figs about the "World Series".

I agree that the execution of this particular model could have been done better, though I have trouble thinking how practically it could have been done since it has been attacked from Day One. I would rather see 10 days in summer every 2 or 3 years given to the WBC, and have it played like a true competition. But this year would have been a nice preview for people, and by the end people might have been more willing to embrace it around the world, instead of it ending up pretty much stillborn and unlikely to be viable as an idea again for a good number of years.

MRKARNO
01-08-2006, 11:59 AM
???

You don't think a live game scenario helps a coaching staff evaluate players competing for a roster spot? How would you expect to evaulate some of the intangibles like a pitcher's aggressiveness or a hitter's confidence level at the plate in a non-game situation?

If anything, it will help teams looking at players fighting for roster spots. Most of the players in the WBC are not fighting for roster spots and the ones that will be left in the Spring Training games will get more playing time than they might have had otherwise.

soxjim
01-08-2006, 12:05 PM
Good cancel it. No team wants to see one of their players hurt or come up tired during the season. I think the timing was off a bit. Right after the World Series may of worked.

TheVulture
01-08-2006, 01:16 PM
Now think of how many places still have so much fertile ground to be cultivated: China,

Why is it that China's OK for the WBC, but Cuba isn't?

CallMeNuts
01-08-2006, 01:20 PM
If anything, it will help teams looking at players fighting for roster spots. Most of the players in the WBC are not fighting for roster spots and the ones that will be left in the Spring Training games will get more playing time than they might have had otherwise.

Correct! What if WBC players were to spend their entire month of March with their nation's team instead of their MLB team?

The MLB team would still have plenty of players for practices and exhibition games. The MLB staff would have extra time to evaluate the rest of the players. The MLB coaching staff doesn't need to see their WBC caliber players.

The nations' teams would need to have plenty of players so that nobody gets overworked. Especially the pitchers. 50 players on a squad should be enough.

The WBC players would report to their nation's team at the beginning of March. They'd train together for a couple of weeks. Then they'd play the tournament for the last two weeks of March.

Designed properly, all the WBC players would get about the same amount of work as in Spring Training and would have no more chance of getting injured than in Spring Training.

At the end of the WBC, the players take their rightful place in the starting line-ups of their respective MLB teams.

soxinem1
01-08-2006, 01:44 PM
Good. may this farce die a quick death.

Lip

I thought this would be a good idea at first and still think so, but political correctness and politics are taking center stage.

But to have players not from the country but playing for the team (ala Piazza) is a little bogus. I thought the idea was to have each country show off it's players, not imports and exports.

So in all fairness, who is representing who? If Piazza hits a GW HR for Italy, who wins, the MLB for producing him or Italy because he is of Italian ancestry? I think the country's pros and amateurs should be highlighted more. The World Cup does it that way, and it is a huge success.

I do not oppose our Cuban policy, but this is baseball, not cigars. So geez, let them play.

But one thing that will rear it's ugly head is cotract language. Honestly, if you had Konerko on your payroll and he plays for Italy, Poland, or the US and tears an achilles, what happens?

I wish more thought and planning went into this, it just seems disorganized, rushed, and bush league.

pudge
01-08-2006, 02:59 PM
I would rather see 10 days in summer every 2 or 3 years given to the WBC, and have it played like a true competition.

That's just one idea that's a million times better than what they have now.

I don't think people are so against the idea, but rather how this idea is being executed. While I agree with PHG that spring training is way too long and not at all intriguing to most fans, it does serve a purpose for the teams and players. Trying to do a WBC in March when nobody is in game shape just doesn't appeal to me. Also, doing it so that it could damage MLB teams is also a negative to me. Because I love baseball is precisely why I *don't* want the WBC to happen as currently planned. A) the quality of the games in the WBC will blow and B) players could go down during the following MLB season as a result. So as a fan, neither A nor B make me happy.

On the flip side, I agree that this event does need to happen for baseball to stay above water globally.

ilsox7
01-08-2006, 03:15 PM
That's just one idea that's a million times better than what they have now.

I don't think people are so against the idea, but rather how this idea is being executed. While I agree with PHG that spring training is way too long and not at all intriguing to most fans, it does serve a purpose for the teams and players. Trying to do a WBC in March when nobody is in game shape just doesn't appeal to me. Also, doing it so that it could damage MLB teams is also a negative to me. Because I love baseball is precisely why I *don't* want the WBC to happen as currently planned. A) the quality of the games in the WBC will blow and B) players could go down during the following MLB season as a result. So as a fan, neither A nor B make me happy.

On the flip side, I agree that this event does need to happen for baseball to stay above water globally.

Well said. Done right, the event would be nice. It's not being done right. Until then, it needs to go away.

bigfoot
01-08-2006, 08:54 PM
Why is it that China's OK for the WBC, but Cuba isn't?

Cuba isn't run by multi-national corporations, yet? :wink:

Baby Fisk
01-08-2006, 10:22 PM
Even tho Canada would likely win this thing and run away with the "world cup" of baseball (?), I am not in favour of this tournament.

IlliniSox4Life
01-09-2006, 04:26 AM
Honestly, I didn't really know what to think about the WBC initially, but after some thought, I came to the conclusion it needs to be done.

A lot of you said that you're not opposed to the idea, but it needs to be done correctly and isn't. Well what exactly is ever done correctly the first time? After the first one, Baseball will have a much better idea of what works and what doesn't. The game of baseball has evolved over a long time, and it is a lot different now than it was 100 years ago, so why can't we test this out and see how it goes?

As far as the timing, it's fine with me. Athletes don't just go home after the post season and eat donuts for a couple months. They are still in extremely good shape year round. Let them do a week or two of conditioning before the WBC, and they should be fine.

Ol' No. 2
01-09-2006, 09:00 AM
Of course I do. I just don't think you need to fill the entire month of March with these games to figure it out. Most teams have at most five roster spots to decide. The rest is just figuring out who the opening day starters will be. It's not that difficult. Guillen already has over 90 percent of his decisions already made -- and not a single spring training game has been played yet.

You don't need a month of spring training games to decide this stuff anymore than the NFL needs four exhibition games to figure out their roster. Good players get hurt and lost for the season playing these games. Think Rex Grossman (2005) and Robin Ventura (1997) for two prime examples.

Stop the ********. If there is a better way to promote the sport of baseball than ******** exhibition games, let's get on with it. NOBODY has made a serious argument for why the WBC is anything but good publicity for MLB, at least as good as 6 weeks mostly wasted in Florida and Arizona.I wouldn't categorize spring training as "mostly wasted". A lot of the things accomplished in ST do take time. Pitchers need to build up their arm strength and get into a rhythm. Hitters need to get their timing back. These things can't be rushed. Whether the timing of the WBC hurts the normal progression or not remains to be seen, but if they really want to do it right they should have done it during a hiatus in the regular season. Of course, they won't for obvious reasons.

My biggest problem with it is the whole phony "playing for your country" BS. It's reminiscent of the HR derby nonsense they tried to sell last summer. I thought it was lame, and this promises to be even worse because half the people playing for other countries have no ties to that country except for some ancestors a generation or more removed.

The idea of promoting baseball worldwide is admirable. This is just the wrong way to do it. I'm not really militant about it. But I think it's going to be a bust.

TDog
01-09-2006, 10:56 AM
Geez, why all the hostility for this event? ...

I agree. I don't see any problem with such an event coinciding with spring training. I had problem with Bobby Thigpen playing in an MLB tour of Japan after his 57-save season because he should have been resting. But coinciding a world tournament with spring training is better than scheduling it after the season and better than scheduling it during the season. I think a world cup would be better than anything football or basketball could offer.

The only thing that will come from the US excluding Cuba is the Olympics people excluding US cities from future considerations.

Mendoza Line
01-11-2006, 10:14 PM
Why is it that China's OK for the WBC, but Cuba isn't?

There's one interesting storyline from the tourney. I wonder how seriously other countries are taking this whole thing. Imagine if Taiwan won it all..

The possibility is there. You never know

ondafarm
01-12-2006, 11:52 AM
. . . They *could* have done it right... the concept is a great one. But they need to make it work like the World Cup in soccer... where each country is represented by players who live in and are citizens of that country. . .

I disagree. While visiting South Africa, I sat down with a guy I recognized as a New Zealander. He was wearing an oddly colored jacket and it turned out he was playing for a different national team in the upcoming rugby tournament. Two other rugby players sat down at the same table and they were playing for other, other teams as well. And yet all three were primary school classmates from New Zealand, asking about each other's "mum"s and all lived within a couple of blocks of each other in Dunedin (a city in NZ.)

The long and the short of it is: if the best of one sport is played in one country (MLB is the best baseball by far) then the residents of that country will be splattered across all of the international teams.

Tekijawa
01-12-2006, 12:16 PM
I would have imagined that empty stadiums would have ended it before the government did?!?!!?

MasQbellesa
01-12-2006, 06:02 PM
Anybody wanna buy my tickets?? :tongue: