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crazyozzie02
01-04-2006, 01:39 PM
With Timo and Willie gone, and the addition of Rowmac, who do you guys think will consist of our bench. Here is my Guess....

Util-ROMAC
Util Infld-OZUNA
Util Otfld-OWENS
Cather-Widger

Any other guesses?

The Dude
01-04-2006, 01:41 PM
With Timo and Willie gone, and the addition of Rowmac, who do you guys think will consist of our bench. Here is my Guess....

Util-ROMAC
Util Infld-OZUNA
Util Otfld-OWENS
Cather-Widger

Any other guesses?
Or Borchard since Owens might not be ready and we could still shop Borchard before the deadline instead of getting nothing for him now.

And dont forget about Gload.

Flight #24
01-04-2006, 01:46 PM
12-man pitching staff seems likely given the WBC, at least to start the year, so with the 9 regulars, you're talking about a 4-man bench.

C-Widger (C-Widg)
UTIF-Ozuna (P-Oz)
UTIF/OF-Mackowiak (R-Mak)
UTOF-Borchard (J-Bo)

If/when they drop to an 11-man staff, you'd probably see either R-Glo or J-Ow depending on whether they want the speed or the LH bat/1B.

Mickster
01-04-2006, 01:49 PM
With Timo and Willie gone, and the addition of Rowmac, who do you guys think will consist of our bench. Here is my Guess....

Util-ROMAC
Util Infld-OZUNA
Util Otfld-OWENS
Cather-Widger

Any other guesses?

*** is a ROMAC?

kittle42
01-04-2006, 01:59 PM
*** is a ROMAC?

Exactly.

Please, please, please stop it now.

Chisox003
01-04-2006, 02:07 PM
Exactly.

Please, please, please stop it now.
:roflmao:

Oh boy..... :rolleyes:

veeter
01-04-2006, 02:09 PM
I think KW is waiting to find out about any big deals involving Contreras. If nothing materializes, I think you'll see a flurry of small moves or aquisitions shoring up the pen and bench.

KRS1
01-04-2006, 02:10 PM
Despite some people's outlook on him, JO is NOT a 4th outfielder. Until he flops terribly and loses his lead-offf potential, he will not be up with the club as a bench guy. Inhibiting a player like Owens development, as this being just his 3rd full season is baseball, is the last thing our management will do. Platooning him and BA is an even worse idea, as some have suggested giving them L/R matchups accordingly would just make them a one dimentional hitter(BTW BA is not that great v. lefties, he is more balanced). Borch is the perfect guy to have as our swing guy who can play all 3 OF positions reasonably well, and has nothing left to learn in the minors, aside from a shorter swing and better strike zone judgement on breaking balls.

sox1970
01-04-2006, 02:10 PM
If they are carrying 5 on the bench, I'd say it's Mackowiak, Borchard, Gload, Ozuna, and Widger.

I hate to pile on, but RoMack, RMack, BMac--all of this stuff must stop.

Chicken Dinner
01-04-2006, 02:15 PM
God help us if we give Borchard another chance. I don't understand why no one can remember the frustration he caused all of us Sox fans. He can go to ST but I don't want him on the roster.

Ol' No. 2
01-04-2006, 02:18 PM
If they are carrying 5 on the bench, I'd say it's Mackowiak, Borchard, Gload, Ozuna, and Widger.

I hate to pile on, but RoMack, RMack, BMac--all of this stuff must stop. If the McCarthys had named their son after Chili Davis instead of Brandon, could we call him Chili Mac?

russ99
01-04-2006, 02:18 PM
Shouldn't Borchard be Jo-Ow?!? :tongue:

Please, enough with the cute nicknames, we're serious about baseball. Leave that buffoonery to the northsiders.

KRS1
01-04-2006, 02:18 PM
God help us if we give Borchard another chance. I don't understand why no one can remember the frustration he caused all of us Sox fans. He can go to ST but I don't want him on the roster.

Yes, he frustrated us as an everyday RF. Now all he has to do is play good D, and come up with the occasional clutch hit off the bench. Anyway, IMO he cant be any worse than Timo, and he catches the ball with two hands!

HebrewHammer
01-04-2006, 02:22 PM
IMO he cant be any worse than Timo, and he catches the ball with two hands!

He used to drive me nuts with that. I was just waiting for him to slap at the ball and knock it into centerfield.

DaleJRFan
01-04-2006, 02:23 PM
Anyway, IMO he cant be any worse than Timo, and he catches the ball with two hands!

My God, that used to drive me CRAZY. It doesn't hurt to have a guy on the bench with good power that can specifically swing for a HR. As a reserve outfielder, Borchard > Timo.

The Dude
01-04-2006, 02:25 PM
Yes, he frustrated us as an everyday RF. Now all he has to do is play good D, and come up with the occasional clutch hit off the bench. Anyway, IMO he cant be any worse than Timo, and he catches the ball with two hands!

Exactly! And we just need to give him a spot because he obviously is out of options and if he doesnt work out in this chance...we then cut our losses. I dont know how he can be worse than Timo.

getonbckthr
01-04-2006, 02:46 PM
I think we need to establish a list of usable shortened names. Like having a verbal discussion i'm not gonna say Bmac. However if i'm typing I like to shorten words for the sake of speed, my fingers and my keyboard. Preliminary list:
Ozzie Guillen: OZ
Kenny Williams: KW
Jerry Reinsdorf: Boss
Paul Konerko: PK
Jermaine Dye: JD
Rob Mackowiak: Mack
Brandon Mccarthy: Bmac
Javier Vasquez: Javy
Freddy Garcia: Freddy
Mark Buerhle: Burls
Jose Contreras: Jose
Jon Garland: JG
Scott Podsednik: Pods
AJ Pierzynski: AJ
Bobby Jenks: Bobby
Neal Cotts: Cotts
Cliff Politte: Cliff
Pablo Ozuna: Pablo
Tadahito Iguchi: Gooch
Jim Thome:Thome
Ross Gload: Ross
Jerry Owens: Owens
Joe Crede: Crede or Clutch
Juan Uribe: Uribe
Brian Anderson:BA
Dustin Hermanson: Dust or Hermy
Chris Widger: Widge
David Sanders: Sanders
Jeff Bajaneru: Baj
Joe Borchard: Borch
Paulino Reynoso: Lino
Casey Rogowski: Rogo
Just an idea.

KRS1
01-04-2006, 02:54 PM
:rolleyes: I think we need to establish a list of usable shortened names. Like having a verbal discussion i'm not gonna say Bmac. However if i'm typing I like to shorten words for the sake of speed, my fingers and my keyboard. Preliminary list:
Ozzie Guillen: OZ
Kenny Williams: KW
Jerry Reinsdorf: Boss
Paul Konerko: PK
Jermaine Dye: JD
Rob Mackowiak: Mack
Brandon Mccarthy: Bmac
Javier Vasquez: Javy
Freddy Garcia: Freddy
Mark Buerhle: Burls
Jose Contreras: Jose
Jon Garland: JG
Scott Podsednik: Pods
AJ Pierzynski: AJ
Bobby Jenks: Bobby
Neal Cotts: Cotts
Cliff Politte: Cliff
Pablo Ozuna: Pablo
Tadahito Iguchi: Gooch
Jim Thome:Thome
Ross Gload: Ross
Jerry Owens: Owens
Joe Crede: Crede or Clutch
Juan Uribe: Uribe
Brian Anderson:BA
Dustin Hermanson: Dust or Hermy
Chris Widger: Widge
David Sanders: Sanders
Jeff Bajaneru: Baj
Joe Borchard: Borch
Paulino Reynoso: Lino
Casey Rogowski: Rogo
Just an idea.

Yet another well thought out, and all-around great post by GOBT.

kittle42
01-04-2006, 03:04 PM
I think we need to establish a list of usable shortened names. Like having a verbal discussion i'm not gonna say Bmac. However if i'm typing I like to shorten words for the sake of speed, my fingers and my keyboard. Preliminary list:
.
.
.
Just an idea.

I don't know how many of us would like this board turing into the equivalent of a mid '90s Bulls broadcast.

Exit_Only
01-04-2006, 03:12 PM
I think we need to establish a list of usable shortened names. Like having a verbal discussion i'm not gonna say Bmac. However if i'm typing I like to shorten words for the sake of speed, my fingers and my keyboard. Preliminary list:
Ozzie Guillen: OZ
Kenny Williams: KW
Jerry Reinsdorf: Boss
Paul Konerko: PK
Jermaine Dye: JD
Rob Mackowiak: Mack
Brandon Mccarthy: Bmac
Javier Vasquez: Javy
Freddy Garcia: Freddy
Mark Buerhle: Burls
Jose Contreras: Jose
Jon Garland: JG
Scott Podsednik: Pods
AJ Pierzynski: AJ
Bobby Jenks: Bobby
Neal Cotts: Cotts
Cliff Politte: Cliff
Pablo Ozuna: Pablo
Tadahito Iguchi: Gooch
Jim Thome:Thome
Ross Gload: Ross
Jerry Owens: Owens
Joe Crede: Crede or Clutch
Juan Uribe: Uribe
Brian Anderson:BA
Dustin Hermanson: Dust or Hermy
Chris Widger: Widge
David Sanders: Sanders
Jeff Bajaneru: Baj
Joe Borchard: Borch
Paulino Reynoso: Lino
Casey Rogowski: Rogo
Just an idea.

I like it!

Steelrod
01-04-2006, 03:20 PM
I think we need to establish a list of usable shortened names. Like having a verbal discussion i'm not gonna say Bmac. However if i'm typing I like to shorten words for the sake of speed, my fingers and my keyboard. Preliminary list:
Ozzie Guillen: OZ
Kenny Williams: KW
Jerry Reinsdorf: Boss
Paul Konerko: PK
Jermaine Dye: JD
Rob Mackowiak: Mack
Brandon Mccarthy: Bmac
Javier Vasquez: Javy
Freddy Garcia: Freddy
Mark Buerhle: Burls
Jose Contreras: Jose
Jon Garland: JG
Scott Podsednik: Pods
AJ Pierzynski: AJ
Bobby Jenks: Bobby
Neal Cotts: Cotts
Cliff Politte: Cliff
Pablo Ozuna: Pablo
Tadahito Iguchi: Gooch
Jim Thome:Thome
Ross Gload: Ross
Jerry Owens: Owens
Joe Crede: Crede or Clutch
Juan Uribe: Uribe
Brian Anderson:BA
Dustin Hermanson: Dust or Hermy
Chris Widger: Widge
David Sanders: Sanders
Jeff Bajaneru: Baj
Joe Borchard: Borch
Paulino Reynoso: Lino
Casey Rogowski: Rogo
Just an idea.
To protect your fingers and keyboard, you should not have wasted your time typing all this. Just what I need is a referral sheet of what to call people. I'm surprised you also didn't provide vocal instructions; ie. Lino Leeno or lieno!
You just type what you want and I'll figure it out.

CWSpalehoseCWS
01-04-2006, 03:28 PM
Here's who I think could make it.

3B/UTIL Mackowiak
3B/UTIL Ozuna
C Widger
RF/OF Borchard or CF/OFOwens

KRS1
01-04-2006, 03:31 PM
Here's who I think could make it.

3B/UTIL Mackowiak
3B/UTIL Ozuna
C Widger
RF/OF Borchard or CF/OFOwens

How do we tab a guy who has never played the position on a regular basis(if ever) as a CF. It's a lot easier to say than to do, making a jump from LF to CF in the flip of a hat.

Banix12
01-04-2006, 03:39 PM
I just want to point out that it is stupid to try and predict the bench right now. I think if Ozzie has shown anything the last couple years is that he will give opprotunities to players who earn their spot even if they are unheralded players. Gload did it back in 04. Ozuna and Widger weren't even really on the radar before spring training last year, we knew they were coming to spring training but I don't think anybody really gave them a serious shot versus Wilson Valdez, who ozzie reportedly really liked, and Ben Davis and Jaime Burke, who both were figured to be more likely options as the backup catcher.

All we know of the bench is that it will contain Mackowiak, Widger and very likely Ozuna. My feeling is the 4th OF will be either acquired as a throw in during a trade for a starting pitcher, a non-roster invitee, or acquired at the end of spring training in some trade with a team with extra OF (much like how the sox originally acquired Timo).

I think Borch will be considered but I think he can't just be good in spring training to make the roster, he has to put up numbers like what Ozuna put up last spring or play like Gload in spring 2004. He has to play so well that Ozzie would look like a fool not to take him. If he just puts up decent numbers or slightly above average numbers I don't think he makes it becuase he hasn't done enough in the majors or AAA to earn the benefit of the doubt.

Hitmen77
01-04-2006, 03:47 PM
It's got to say something about how strong the Sox roster is that we're talking about the last 1 or 2 bench spots on January 4!
:gulp: :gulp: :gulp:

CWSpalehoseCWS
01-04-2006, 03:54 PM
How do we tab a guy who has never played the position on a regular basis(if ever) as a CF. It's a lot easier to say than to do, making a jump from LF to CF in the flip of a hat.

It doesn't really make a difference what his main position is, since he would be a back up anyways. Plus the still is a slight chance that he could start CF, even though I doubt that will happen. I guess we can see how he produces in ST.

KRS1
01-04-2006, 03:58 PM
It doesn't really make a difference what his main position is, since he would be a back up anyways. Plus the still is a slight chance that he could start CF, even though I doubt that will happen. I guess we can see how he produces in ST.

I was commenting on how you dubbed him as a CF/OF, when he really is a LF as of now. As for your statement that it doesnt matter what his main position is, if your going to be a bench OF heck yeah it does. You can't expect him to just be able to run into center like it's some pick-up game that noone cares if you get late jumps in the ball and bad reads. Centerfield takes some time and patience when learning.

Tekijawa
01-04-2006, 04:07 PM
I don't know how many of us would like this board turing into the equivalent of a mid '90s Bulls broadcast.

It's still better than a Mid-00's Bulls Broadcast... "Red" thinks that everytime the bulls miss a shot or turn it over, A LOT!!!!, it's a foul and Wayne is there to humor red and make him think he's right!

getonbckthr
01-04-2006, 04:08 PM
I think Borch will be considered
Banix likes my idea.

CWSpalehoseCWS
01-04-2006, 04:10 PM
I was commenting on how you dubbed him as a CF/OF, when he really is a LF as of now. As for your statement that it doesnt matter what his main position is, if your going to be a bench OF heck yeah it does. You can't expect him to just be able to run into center like it's some pick-up game that noone cares if you get late jumps in the ball and bad reads. Centerfield takes some time and patience when learning.

I agree with what you are saying about playing CF. It does take alot of time to learn how to play it. I just think that Owens will see some playing time in CF during ST, even if it isn't his natural position.

Exit_Only
01-04-2006, 04:51 PM
Banix likes my idea.

haha, nice save.

:gulp:

soxinem1
01-04-2006, 08:26 PM
I just want to point out that it is stupid to try and predict the bench right now. I think if Ozzie has shown anything the last couple years is that he will give opprotunities to players who earn their spot even if they are unheralded players. Gload did it back in 04. Ozuna and Widger weren't even really on the radar before spring training last year, we knew they were coming to spring training but I don't think anybody really gave them a serious shot versus Wilson Valdez, who ozzie reportedly really liked, and Ben Davis and Jaime Burke, who both were figured to be more likely options as the backup catcher.

All we know of the bench is that it will contain Mackowiak, Widger and very likely Ozuna. My feeling is the 4th OF will be either acquired as a throw in during a trade for a starting pitcher, a non-roster invitee, or acquired at the end of spring training in some trade with a team with extra OF (much like how the sox originally acquired Timo).

I think Borch will be considered but I think he can't just be good in spring training to make the roster, he has to put up numbers like what Ozuna put up last spring or play like Gload in spring 2004. He has to play so well that Ozzie would look like a fool not to take him. If he just puts up decent numbers or slightly above average numbers I don't think he makes it becuase he hasn't done enough in the majors or AAA to earn the benefit of the doubt.

You raise some good points here, but I think Borchard, since the last few weeks of the 04 season, has played pretty well. He had a good Spring this year, but Oz wanted a little speed and versatility with Ozuna. Borchard had a good year in AAA and actually put the bat on the ball pretty well in September.

I say they give him every shot to make the team. I wish there was room for Gload too, I think he's a big league hitter.

Banix12
01-04-2006, 09:55 PM
You raise some good points here, but I think Borchard, since the last few weeks of the 04 season, has played pretty well. He had a good Spring this year, but Oz wanted a little speed and versatility with Ozuna. Borchard had a good year in AAA and actually put the bat on the ball pretty well in September.

I say they give him every shot to make the team. I wish there was room for Gload too, I think he's a big league hitter.

Borchard will get an opprotunity but it's not like he's done wonders when he has gotten an opprotunity in the past.

Ozuna made the roster because Harris was not a reliable backup SS and he had an incredible spring training. Ozuna was also a career .300 hitter in AAA so it did look as if he could potentially hit well in the majors if given the chance. Ozuna didn't keep Borchard off the roster. The guy who kept Borchard off the roster was Borchard. Not because he didn't play well in spring training but because he failed so miserably in 2004 during his callup. If Borchard had played reasonably well in 2004 and put up the spring training numbers like he did last season I think he probably would have taken the backup OF spot from Timo.

You also aren't entirely correct on what Borchard has done the last year and a half.

1st. In 2004 he had one great game on the last day of the season (3 for 4 with a HR). However, he was in the starting lineup everyday from September 17th to October 3rd 2004 and in that 17 game period he hit .222. Eliminate that one big game and his average dips to .186.

2nd. Right before he was called up this season he was hitting well at AAA however his overall numbers ended up right around his career norms for AAA because of his horrendous start. This can be taken two ways. Either he finally showed progress in that final month or two at AAA and became a good hitter or when given enough AB's at AAA his numbers end up around his normal career AAA average. It's hard to tell if a good 1/2 season in AAA counts as signifigant progress.

3rd. During his september callup last season, half of his at-bats came against average middle relievers in garbage time and he did fine in that situation, like he should against the likes of Esteban Yan. However the one time he got into a game against a legitimate major league level pitcher he struck out 4 times. Sure it was Kevin Millwood and a lot of players look foolish against him, but that was a big test for Borchard and he failed to get the bat on the ball.

I think a guy like Gload deserves the spot far more than Borchard, but Gload doesn't play OF well and the sox have two 1b already. Gload, unlike Borchard, is a fantastic AAA hitter and has nothing left to prove there. I don't exactly see either making it. Like I said in the previous post, I think the 4th OF is not currently in the organization.

KRS1
01-04-2006, 09:56 PM
You raise some good points here, but I think Borchard, since the last few weeks of the 04 season, has played pretty well. He had a good Spring this year, but Oz wanted a little speed and versatility with Ozuna. Borchard had a good year in AAA and actually put the bat on the ball pretty well in September.

I say they give him every shot to make the team. I wish there was room for Gload too, I think he's a big league hitter.

Where were you when he was putting up a hefty .200 BA into May? He had a great(for him) June-August, but to say he was playing well since 04' is a bit of a stretch.

soxinem1
01-05-2006, 05:40 PM
Borchard will get an opprotunity but it's not like he's done wonders when he has gotten an opprotunity in the past.

Ozuna made the roster because Harris was not a reliable backup SS and he had an incredible spring training. Ozuna was also a career .300 hitter in AAA so it did look as if he could potentially hit well in the majors if given the chance. Ozuna didn't keep Borchard off the roster. The guy who kept Borchard off the roster was Borchard. Not because he didn't play well in spring training but because he failed so miserably in 2004 during his callup. If Borchard had played reasonably well in 2004 and put up the spring training numbers like he did last season I think he probably would have taken the backup OF spot from Timo.

You also aren't entirely correct on what Borchard has done the last year and a half.

1st. In 2004 he had one great game on the last day of the season (3 for 4 with a HR). However, he was in the starting lineup everyday from September 17th to October 3rd 2004 and in that 17 game period he hit .222. Eliminate that one big game and his average dips to .186.

2nd. Right before he was called up this season he was hitting well at AAA however his overall numbers ended up right around his career norms for AAA because of his horrendous start. This can be taken two ways. Either he finally showed progress in that final month or two at AAA and became a good hitter or when given enough AB's at AAA his numbers end up around his normal career AAA average. It's hard to tell if a good 1/2 season in AAA counts as signifigant progress.

3rd. During his september callup last season, half of his at-bats came against average middle relievers in garbage time and he did fine in that situation, like he should against the likes of Esteban Yan. However the one time he got into a game against a legitimate major league level pitcher he struck out 4 times. Sure it was Kevin Millwood and a lot of players look foolish against him, but that was a big test for Borchard and he failed to get the bat on the ball.

I think a guy like Gload deserves the spot far more than Borchard, but Gload doesn't play OF well and the sox have two 1b already. Gload, unlike Borchard, is a fantastic AAA hitter and has nothing left to prove there. I don't exactly see either making it. Like I said in the previous post, I think the 4th OF is not currently in the organization.

There are reasons that certain guys are bench guys while other are starters. The extra player is not going to hit .350 and steal 50 bases, so All-Star stats are not in the calling. I think the options the player gives the manager are more what is sought.

Since Gload is a mostly career minor leaguer, he is low risk, but Borchard still has the tools. Yeah, I remember when he whiffed four times the day after they clinched the Central, But he sure seemed to have more of a clue in what he was doing up there from late 2004, 2005 ST, this year in AAA, and this September. Plus, I think Joe carries more ability than any of the journeymen or waiver wire type guys who may come available. Plus, I do remember him hitting a few long ones the last couple weeks of 2004.

I agree that this player may come from outside of the organization, but they should give Borchard one last shot to really make the team and contribute. We have a few injury prone guys like Dye and Thome who will not be easy to replace if they go down. For all the time and cash they invested in him, I'd hate to see him go somewhere like KC where they'll throw him in the lineup and he has 20HR's by the break.

It should be a fun Spring.

MarySwiss
01-05-2006, 05:49 PM
To protect your fingers and keyboard, you should not have wasted your time typing all this. Just what I need is a referral sheet of what to call people. I'm surprised you also didn't provide vocal instructions; ie. Lino Leeno or lieno!
You just type what you want and I'll figure it out.

Thank you!

Do you guys not realize who made the rule that everyone has to have a nickname? CBerm, that's who!

And IMO, that's a good enough reason to break the rule right there.

DumpJerry
01-05-2006, 05:54 PM
Come on everyone. We all know Borchard will make the 25 man roster. We need to increase his trade value for when we trade him for prospects because we will then sign the medically cleared Big Hurt to fill the spot vacated by Borchard.

If (and this is a big IF) that took place, pitchers all over the American League will be taking Prozac like candy. Especially closers who fear the Sox throwing them Konerko, Thome and then Thomas as a pinch hitter one after another if we go into the 9th down by 2......:D: :D: :D: :D:

Poor babies......

Banix12
01-05-2006, 06:39 PM
There are reasons that certain guys are bench guys while other are starters. The extra player is not going to hit .350 and steal 50 bases, so All-Star stats are not in the calling. I think the options the player gives the manager are more what is sought.

Since Gload is a mostly career minor leaguer, he is low risk, but Borchard still has the tools. Yeah, I remember when he whiffed four times the day after they clinched the Central, But he sure seemed to have more of a clue in what he was doing up there from late 2004, 2005 ST, this year in AAA, and this September. Plus, I think Joe carries more ability than any of the journeymen or waiver wire type guys who may come available. Plus, I do remember him hitting a few long ones the last couple weeks of 2004.

I agree that this player may come from outside of the organization, but they should give Borchard one last shot to really make the team and contribute. We have a few injury prone guys like Dye and Thome who will not be easy to replace if they go down. For all the time and cash they invested in him, I'd hate to see him go somewhere like KC where they'll throw him in the lineup and he has 20HR's by the break.

It should be a fun Spring.

To me the big quesiton is this. How well does Borchard have to do in spring training to make the sox forget the 4 years of mediocrity he has shown at AAA and his absolutely terrible stints with the big club?

Even if he goes to spring training and hits .500 the sox have 1700 AAA AB's of evidence proving he is no better than a .265 hitter. When a guy like Ozuna or Gload blows up at spring training you can look at his minor league track record and say, "You know this guy can hit." If Borchard blows up at Spring Training it seems more like a fluke. And I think you can point to his spring training success last season as a fluke because he went back to AAA and had an up and down season where his numbers ended up at his career average.

The guys on the Free Agent list right now or the backups available through trade aren't gonna hit like all stars. Nobody expects that but I think you can reasonably expect many of those players to put up better numbers than Borchard based on their track record.

And while you say he has looked less lost for the last year and a half. His numbers basically tell there has been very little change in the type of hitter he is. I keep hearing hearsay evidence about how he has changed but I'm really not seeing it, even when I personally saw him hit.

The only reasons people even consider Joe Borchard is because he was a #1 draft pick and the sox have spent like 6-7 million bucks on him by now. He, at least in my eyes, has done very little to earn consideration. He looks to be another Billy Beane (as a player) or Shawn Abner or even Ben Davis. A guy who gets a million chances because "he looks like he should be a great player."

And don't worry about the sox investment in him. They are never going to get a reasonable return on the money they spent on Joe Borchard and the front office already knows that.

The Critic
01-05-2006, 06:44 PM
Shouldn't Borchard be Jo-Ow?!? :tongue:

Please, enough with the cute nicknames, we're serious about baseball. Leave that buffoonery to the northsiders.

I call him "Joe-for-4".
:redneck

DickAllen72
01-05-2006, 06:53 PM
To me the big quesiton is this. How well does Borchard have to do in spring training to make the sox forget the 4 years of mediocrity he has shown at AAA and his absolutely terrible stints with the big club?

Even if he goes to spring training and hits .500 the sox have 1700 AAA AB's of evidence proving he is no better than a .265 hitter.

.265 is a lot better than Timo was, plus Borchard can play all three outfield positions fairly well defensively and switch hits with a threat of power. We're talking about a 25th man spot here, not a starter. Borchard would fill that role well.

chisoxmike
01-05-2006, 07:05 PM
If Borchard is on the bench in '06, Ozzie will be using him for a strategic strikeout.

Domeshot17
01-05-2006, 07:18 PM
I am amazed at people hating borchard. If he comes up and hits 240 as a reserve, thats 40 points higher than timo did. Hes a superior defender and a good base runner. ideal for the reserve role.

and for everyone saying owens belongs on the bench as a reserve. NO WAY. you dont take potentially 3-4 hundred minor league at bats out of a kids hands, especially one with a ceiling like owens to give him maybe 150 in the pros. Owens will be up next year when jd walks

PushnThaEscalade
01-05-2006, 07:59 PM
Our Bench...
Ozuna, Widger, Mack, Owens/LTP and Ross

1951Campbell
01-05-2006, 08:05 PM
I am amazed at people hating borchard.

We've been hearing how awesome he's gonna be for years now.

He has not been awesome.

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Q.E.D.

delben91
01-05-2006, 08:14 PM
Q.E.D.

That alone makes this the POTW in my book. Flashbacks to geometry and proving the Angle-Side-Angle rule...

Sorry, no intent for -> :hijacked:

1951Campbell
01-05-2006, 08:22 PM
That alone makes this the POTW in my book. Flashbacks to geometry and proving the Angle-Side-Angle rule...

Sorry, no intent for -> :hijacked:

http://www.obkb.com/dcljr/IMAGES/euclid/euclbrch.gif

:)

Banix12
01-05-2006, 09:21 PM
.265 is a lot better than Timo was, plus Borchard can play all three outfield positions fairly well defensively and switch hits with a threat of power. We're talking about a 25th man spot here, not a starter. Borchard would fill that role well.

Borchard is a career .263 hitter in AAA, his major league batting average is .191 in about 1/2 season of career at-bats. Timo is a career .263 hitter in the majors and when he did play in AAA he hit .365 in over 500 AB's.

People can talk and talk about Borchard stepping up and becoming a better hitter and being better than Timo but untill he actually does it Timo is a better hitter than Joe Borchard. Right now Mario Mendoza is a better hitter than Joe Borchard.

The big difference between Timo and Borchard is that back when Timo was a Met and he got an opprotunity to play in the major leagues he succeeded and earned the right to hang around a little longer than he probably should have. Borchard has been given multiple opprotunites and continually fails to meet expectations. If Timo had come up and hit like Borchard did back in 2004, he would be back in Japan by now.

I am amazed at people hating borchard. If he comes up and hits 240 as a reserve, thats 40 points higher than timo did. Hes a superior defender and a good base runner. ideal for the reserve role.

and for everyone saying owens belongs on the bench as a reserve. NO WAY. you dont take potentially 3-4 hundred minor league at bats out of a kids hands, especially one with a ceiling like owens to give him maybe 150 in the pros. Owens will be up next year when jd walks

If he comes up and hits .240 or better as a reserve I'll gladly eat crow on my low expectations of him. Borchard hitting .240 would probably be the high end of his potential and only be a .022 boost over what Timo did last season, which was the worst season of baseball Timo ever played. Never mind that in five other seasons Timo hit close to or much better than .240. If we are setting .240 as the benchmark of a decent reserve OF, Timo Perez has a better shot of hitting that mark than Joe.

I'll give everybody the fact that he is a better defender and a good baserunner but he is hardly an ideal player for a reserve role. Don't mistake any of this talk as me defending Timo or wanting Timo back. It's me just saying Borchard doesn't appear to be, in my opinion, a real upgrade over Timo Perez.

I'm not on board with Owens as the 4th OF either which is why I stand by my belief that the 4th OF is not currently on the sox roster.

I don't hate borchard. I bet he is a fine upstanding individual if I met him. I just don't think he is a major league baseball player.

santo=dorf
01-05-2006, 09:41 PM
I am amazed at people hating borchard. If he comes up and hits 240 as a reserve, thats 40 points higher than timo did. Hes a superior defender and a good base runner. ideal for the reserve role.

....and if he hits .240 that'll be 49 points higher than his career average.

:hawk
"Stretch!"

soxinem1
01-05-2006, 10:06 PM
Interesting... Borchard's numbers when swinging at the first pitch:

.259 AVG
61 GP
58 AB
15 H
5 HR
10 RBI
.522 SLG

He is also a .259 hitter after the 7th inning...

However, on an 0-2 pitch, he is 0-23 with 18K's. OUCH!

However, sounds like we may have the guy off the bench to PH, if he doesn't go up there thinking too much.

Banix12
01-05-2006, 11:06 PM
Interesting... Borchard's numbers when swinging at the first pitch:

.259 AVG
61 GP
58 AB
15 H
5 HR
10 RBI
.522 SLG

He is also a .259 hitter after the 7th inning...

However, on an 0-2 pitch, he is 0-23 with 18K's. OUCH!

However, sounds like we may have the guy off the bench to PH, if he doesn't go up there thinking too much.


I have kind of thought that Borchard should do better in the 6th,7th, 8th innings. Your average major league starter has pretty good breaking stuff and usually more than two pitches. These guys Borchard has a really hard time against, especially guys with good to great breaking balls and good control. However you get into a lot of major league bullpens and you find guys who are basically two pitch pitchers who rely heavily on fastballs. Guys like that Borchard should hit hard because many of them are the same type of guy he comes up against in the minors.

I might also theorize that those first pitches he hit were first pitch fastballs. Why any pitcher would throw him a fastball near the plate is beyond me.

Still .259 is only impressive because he normally hits .190. If a guy makes it for pinch hitting it should be Gload if only for the PH clinic he put on in 2004.

Ol' No. 2
01-06-2006, 08:46 AM
I have kind of thought that Borchard should do better in the 6th,7th, 8th innings. Your average major league starter has pretty good breaking stuff and usually more than two pitches. These guys Borchard has a really hard time against, especially guys with good to great breaking balls and good control. However you get into a lot of major league bullpens and you find guys who are basically two pitch pitchers who rely heavily on fastballs. Guys like that Borchard should hit hard because many of them are the same type of guy he comes up against in the minors.

I might also theorize that those first pitches he hit were first pitch fastballs. Why any pitcher would throw him a fastball near the plate is beyond me.

Still .259 is only impressive because he normally hits .190. If a guy makes it for pinch hitting it should be Gload if only for the PH clinic he put on in 2004.I'm with you, Banix. The odds of Joe B. ever becoming a decent ball player are miniscule. Every year there are tons of replacement level players that fail to catch on in ST and become available. Just about all of them will be a better choice than Joe B.

I feel bad for the guy. (Well, not TOO bad. He did get a $5M bonus.) From all reports he's a hard worker and has done everything he's been asked. He just can't hit.

DaleJRFan
01-06-2006, 08:50 AM
Anyone know where on the internet I could find a video of Borchard's 504 foot homer? Believe it or not, I never saw it.

pauliemyhero14
01-06-2006, 02:49 PM
im pretty sure if u go to google and then type in chicago whitesox video clips...one of the links will have it.



go whitesox in 2006!!!!!


2005 champions