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View Full Version : Speculation: Where's Frank going?


Flight #24
01-03-2006, 12:38 PM
Came across a blurb on Thomas & Piazza in rotoworld that sparked a thought: Where can Frank actually go? The premise would have to be that he has to DH (i.e. only AL teams), and that his health is a question mark. Obviously this analysis is pending trades that could happen and open up slots.

Out of the running because they already have a solid DH or platoon: Yankees (Bernie/Giambi), Boston: (Ortiz/Youkilis/Snow), Toronto (Overbay/Glaus/Koskie/Hillenbrand/Hinske), Cleveland (Hafner/Broussard), Texas (Nevin/Teixiera), Tigers (Maggs/Pena/Young), Tampa (Lee/Baldelli/Huff/Gomes)

Possible if he doesn't mind going to a team that sucks: Baltimore(Gibbons/Conine/Walter Young), KC(Mientkiwicz, Stairs, Sweeney), Seattle (Carl Everett:o: )

Most likely:
Minnesota: Just signed Rondell White, and have Jason Kubel coming back from knee surgery, so seems like at best ABs would be severely squeezed. Plus, while I think they're way overblown, there are attitude questions about Frank that might make him "un-Twin-like".

Oakland: (Payton/Kielty): They have Johnson @ 1B, Swisher, Kotsay, Milton Bradley that'll play every day, and the 2 mentioned that can push one of the OFs to DH. A possibility, but sort of a Carl Everett situation.

Angels (Alfonzo/McPherson/Kotchman/Morales): One of McPherson/Alfonzo will play 3B, one of Kotchman/Morales 1B. That leaves the other 2 vying to DH, and IIRC the Halos are high on everyone but Edgardo.

So basically, Frank's options are extremely limited: Realistically just Oakland or LAA with significant sharing of PT. And he's battling for those spots with the likes of Piazza (who can play 1B albiet poorly and occasonally catch), and Erubiel Durazo. Both are better injury bets if worse hitters.

Could Frank be on the street around the start of ST? If so, could the Sox maybe bring him in, give him some ST ABs to show himself, and provide some ST insurance for Thome?

Crede_Fan
01-03-2006, 12:46 PM
They can't deal with him until May 1st, right? I would love for your deep pink to happen!

mjmcend
01-03-2006, 12:47 PM
Came across a blurb on Thomas & Piazza in rotoworld that sparked a thought: Where can Frank actually go? The premise would have to be that he has to DH (i.e. only AL teams), and that his health is a question mark. Obviously this analysis is pending trades that could happen and open up slots.

Out of the running because they already have a solid DH or platoon: Yankees (Bernie/Giambi), Boston: (Ortiz/Youkilis/Snow), Toronto (Overbay/Glaus/Koskie/Hillenbrand/Hinske), Cleveland (Hafner/Broussard), Texas (Nevin/Teixiera), Tigers (Maggs/Pena/Young), Tampa (Lee/Baldelli/Huff/Gomes)

Possible if he doesn't mind going to a team that sucks: Baltimore(Gibbons/Conine/Walter Young), KC(Mientkiwicz, Stairs, Sweeney), Seattle (Carl Everett:o: )

Most likely:
Minnesota: Just signed Rondell White, and have Jason Kubel coming back from knee surgery, so seems like at best ABs would be severely squeezed. Plus, while I think they're way overblown, there are attitude questions about Frank that might make him "un-Twin-like".

Oakland: (Payton/Kielty): They have Johnson @ 1B, Swisher, Kotsay, Milton Bradley that'll play every day, and the 2 mentioned that can push one of the OFs to DH. A possibility, but sort of a Carl Everett situation.

Angels (Alfonzo/McPherson/Kotchman/Morales): One of McPherson/Alfonzo will play 3B, one of Kotchman/Morales 1B. That leaves the other 2 vying to DH, and IIRC the Halos are high on everyone but Edgardo.

So basically, Frank's options are extremely limited: Realistically just Oakland or LAA with significant sharing of PT. And he's battling for those spots with the likes of Piazza (who can play 1B albiet poorly and occasonally catch), and Erubiel Durazo. Both are better injury bets if worse hitters.

Could Frank be on the street around the start of ST? If so, could the Sox maybe bring him in, give him some ST ABs to show himself, and provide some ST insurance for Thome?


Just like Roger Clemens and the Astros, he cannot sign with the Sox until May 1st.

Flight #24
01-03-2006, 12:54 PM
Just like Roger Clemens and the Astros, he cannot sign with the Sox until May 1st.Right, crap. Forgot that one. Oh well. I still wonder whether Frank will completely swalow his pride and take a role with a bad team (hello Baltimore), or retire or wait for someone to get hurt and start looking for a bat.

Chicken Dinner
01-03-2006, 01:00 PM
Frank hasn't even been cleared to play by his own doctors so I doubt anyone would make a serious run at him until his medical issues have been resolved.

Ol' No. 2
01-03-2006, 01:04 PM
I don't see how any GM can consider signing Frank as their primary DH. Waaayyy too risky. More likely it will be somewhere that has viable alternatives in case he gets hurt and that can spell him a couple days a week. It's going to be a part-time situation wherever he goes.

dlee120
01-03-2006, 01:22 PM
Right, crap. Forgot that one. Oh well. I still wonder whether Frank will completely swalow his pride and take a role with a bad team (hello Baltimore), or retire or wait for someone to get hurt and start looking for a bat.

Highly doubt Baltimore would consider signing the big hurt. Angelos is very fastidious about his players health and rarely will he sign anyone with questionable health issues.

White Sox Randy
01-03-2006, 01:30 PM
I have a feeling that teams will wait to see if he can play again before they pay him millions of dollars.

MERPER
01-03-2006, 01:43 PM
I said this right after the season ended, after we got Thome and I'll say it again.... I am fairly confident that Frank is going to retire....

He got his World Series ring and the ONLY thing left for him to do is hit 500 HR's, but that would take at least 2 seasons and it is a big, BIG If....

He actually has more to lose than to gain... right now he is being called a borderline HOFer, even though that pisses many Sox fans off beyond belief.... 2 more injury riddled, average or below average seasons might mean NO Cooperstown for Big Hurt....

When he expressed disgust with the Sox not letting him leave on his own terms, I felt that meant more along the lines of letting him retire rather than force him into retirement....

The thought of not having #35 playing on 35th street anymore is a hard one to swallow, but I'd rather have him call it quits than go play for another team and finish on a complete down slide like Brett "vicadin boy" Favre...

lumpyspun
01-03-2006, 02:03 PM
He actually has more to lose than to gain... right now he is being called a borderline HOFer, even though that pisses many Sox fans off beyond belief.... 2 more injury riddled, average or below average seasons might mean NO Cooperstown for Big Hurt....

I never really understand this argument when people use it. Just about every player that ever played the game have numbers that begin to diminish towards the end of their careers (I realize it makes career averages drop a bit). Is there a cutoff where you can hit say .240,10HR,50rbi and you can still make the Hall, but if you drop below that you are worthless and everything you did before that is moot? I hear this argument with Baines too...that he would have had a better shot at the Hall if he reitred instead of struggling the last few years. Why do two years at the end of a career matter what a guy does his other 19 years?

It's like saying Carl Lewis wasn't very good b/c in his last Olympics he couldn't even qualify to compete in any of the running events.

Flight #24
01-03-2006, 02:18 PM
Frank gets in the hall now. Adding 2 years will increase his "accumulation" stats even if it decreases his "rate" stats, the net of which will increase his chances because of the psychological status of the 500HR mark.

Latest word has the Twins trying to traded for one of the Blue Jays extra corner bats (Catalonotto). It looks more and more to me like Frank may have the option of retiring/sitting out or going to a bad team. That's assuming that he gets cleared to play at all.

I do believe that if they wanted to, the Sox could communicate to Frank that they'd like to sign him in May if they have any injury issues with Paulie/Thome, that he'd be a >50% likelihood of waiting unless Oak/LAA make a realistic offer. But I'm not sure that the team is interested in that.

If he is to retire, I would really really like to see him resign in May, be activated, and get a congratulatory AB, then retire.

DSpivack
01-03-2006, 02:19 PM
I said this right after the season ended, after we got Thome and I'll say it again.... I am fairly confident that Frank is going to retire....

He got his World Series ring and the ONLY thing left for him to do is hit 500 HR's, but that would take at least 2 seasons and it is a big, BIG If....

He actually has more to lose than to gain... right now he is being called a borderline HOFer, even though that pisses many Sox fans off beyond belief.... 2 more injury riddled, average or below average seasons might mean NO Cooperstown for Big Hurt....

When he expressed disgust with the Sox not letting him leave on his own terms, I felt that meant more along the lines of letting him retire rather than force him into retirement....

The thought of not having #35 playing on 35th street anymore is a hard one to swallow, but I'd rather have him call it quits than go play for another team and finish on a complete down slide like Brett "vicadin boy" Favre...

It's been discussed A LOT here on WSI....Frank is a first ballot HOF, retiring now or in the future.

voodoochile
01-03-2006, 02:29 PM
I have to agree with Flight. Unless someone makes him a serious offer (which is looking less and less likely) I expect Frank to sign an incentive laden contract with the Sox based on him staying healthy in May of this year. I think JR will pretty much order KW to make a solid offer in the $1M range plus incentives and dump somebody off of the bench. If Frank is healthy by then, he can be a huge insurance policy and would be the most feared PH in the game bar none.

Ol' No. 2
01-03-2006, 02:29 PM
Frank gets in the hall now. Adding 2 years will increase his "accumulation" stats even if it decreases his "rate" stats, the net of which will increase his chances because of the psychological status of the 500HR mark.

Latest word has the Twins trying to traded for one of the Blue Jays extra corner bats (Catalonotto). It looks more and more to me like Frank may have the option of retiring/sitting out or going to a bad team. That's assuming that he gets cleared to play at all.

I do believe that if they wanted to, the Sox could communicate to Frank that they'd like to sign him in May if they have any injury issues with Paulie/Thome, that he'd be a >50% likelihood of waiting unless Oak/LAA make a realistic offer. But I'm not sure that the team is interested in that.

If he is to retire, I would really really like to see him resign in May, be activated, and get a congratulatory AB, then retire.At his historical rate of 15.5 AB/HR, he'll need 800 more AB to get the needed 52 HR. That's probably 3 more years. Unfortunately, I don't think his ankle will hold up that long.

Flight #24
01-03-2006, 02:38 PM
At his historical rate of 15.5 AB/HR, he'll need 800 more AB to get the needed 52 HR. That's probably 3 more years. Unfortunately, I don't think his ankle will hold up that long.

True, but IMO his mindset is still to try for that. The question is to what extent he values trying for that over not playing for a bad team and a different team late in his career.

MERPER
01-03-2006, 02:47 PM
Please don't take my prior response the wrong way... I think Frank is a lock as a first ballot HOFer.... But for some reason, every HOF article you see has him as borderline... unfortunately, those writers have the votes that count and us WSI members do not....

If Frank tries to play two more years at a below average level, voters will remember the last 5 years of Frank because they are stubborn.... Only Chicago writers will remember his first 12-14 years that were Ted Williams caliber....

Ol' No. 2
01-03-2006, 03:08 PM
Please don't take my prior response the wrong way... I think Frank is a lock as a first ballot HOFer.... But for some reason, every HOF article you see has him as borderline... unfortunately, those writers have the votes that count and us WSI members do not....

If Frank tries to play two more years at a below average level, voters will remember the last 5 years of Frank because they are stubborn.... Only Chicago writers will remember his first 12-14 years that were Ted Williams caliber....People have called him borderline because his numbers didn't compare well to his contemporaries (i.e. Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Giambi, etc.) I think that mindset has changed for reasons I'm sure I don't need to point out.

Paulwny
01-03-2006, 06:05 PM
Please don't take my prior response the wrong way... I think Frank is a lock as a first ballot HOFer.... But for some reason, every HOF article you see has him as borderline... unfortunately, those writers have the votes that count and us WSI members do not....

If Frank tries to play two more years at a below average level, voters will remember the last 5 years of Frank because they are stubborn.... Only Chicago writers will remember his first 12-14 years that were Ted Williams caliber....

Many articles call Frank borderline because the wrtiters aren't sure of the hof voters. Off and on over the last ~ 10yrs I kept hearing about various writers, who vote for hof induction, claim they will never vote for a player who was primarily a DH. I don't remember any names but I believe most of these writers/voters are frn NL cities. Although Frank played many yrs at 1b he's considered by many as a dh. I think a 1st ballot induction is a toss up.

DumpJerry
01-03-2006, 06:18 PM
I have to agree with Flight. Unless someone makes him a serious offer (which is looking less and less likely) I expect Frank to sign an incentive laden contract with the Sox based on him staying healthy in May of this year. I think JR will pretty much order KW to make a solid offer in the $1M range plus incentives and dump somebody off of the bench. If Frank is healthy by then, he can be a huge insurance policy and would be the most feared PH in the game bar none.
Maybe this is the what will happen:
1. Nobody signs him (Magglio already has said he will DH and not do much in the field, so the Tigers probably won't be attracted to another injured player).
2. On or just after May 1, he is medically cleared.
3. Sox trade Borchard for prospects.
4. Frank signs to to take Borchard's place on the roster.
5. Another parade down LaSalle Street in October.

WSox597
01-03-2006, 08:15 PM
DumpJerry, works for me on all counts.

CWSpalehoseCWS
01-03-2006, 09:33 PM
As much as I dispise the Angels or A's, I wouldn't mind seeing him in those uniforms than in a Twin's. As long as he goes to a good team I don't care where he goes.

Palehose13
01-03-2006, 09:37 PM
I don't ever want to see him in another uniform and I don't see him coming back to the Sox after May 1st. :whiner:

So, for my own selfish reasons, I see Frank retiring.

Chisox003
01-03-2006, 09:43 PM
I have to agree with Flight. Unless someone makes him a serious offer (which is looking less and less likely) I expect Frank to sign an incentive laden contract with the Sox based on him staying healthy in May of this year. I think JR will pretty much order KW to make a solid offer in the $1M range plus incentives and dump somebody off of the bench. If Frank is healthy by then, he can be a huge insurance policy and would be the most feared PH in the game bar none.
That would be.....incredible

Still a long way to go in this offseason, though, but I don't think it hurts to dream ..... Let's keep our fingers crossed

Come back home Frank :gulp:

Corlose 15
01-03-2006, 10:17 PM
Umm, I love Frank and all but I think he'd be a waste of a roster spot to be a PH who can't play the field.

Right now the bench is Widger, Mackowiak, Ozuna, Gload?, Borchard?. If you trade Borchard and bring in Frank, the only real OF backup is Mackowiak.

Frater Perdurabo
01-04-2006, 11:10 AM
Umm, I love Frank and all but I think he'd be a waste of a roster spot to be a PH who can't play the field.

Right now the bench is Widger, Mackowiak, Ozuna, Gload?, Borchard?. If you trade Borchard and bring in Frank, the only real OF backup is Mackowiak.

Having a horse like McCarthy in the pen gives the Sox an ability to go with one more position player - in this case, Big Frank.

The May 1 date might actually be a good thing. It would give Frank more time to rehab and get into shape, and would give the Sox some time to see how their rotation shakes out given that three of the starters plan to pitch in the WBC. If their starters emerge healthy and pitch well through April, they can be confident that McCarthy can eat lots of innings from the bullpen, drop the weakest reliever, and make room for Frank.

Tragg
01-04-2006, 04:23 PM
Having a horse like McCarthy in the pen gives the Sox an ability to go with one more position player - in this case, Big Frank.

The May 1 date might actually be a good thing. It would give Frank more time to rehab and get into shape, and would give the Sox some time to see how their rotation shakes out given that three of the starters plan to pitch in the WBC. If their starters emerge healthy and pitch well through April, they can be confident that McCarthy can eat lots of innings from the bullpen, drop the weakest reliever, and make room for Frank.
But is that in our best interests? 3 players on the roster who can play nothing but 1B?
I hope he signs with the Royals.

1951Campbell
01-04-2006, 06:01 PM
As much as I dispise the Angels or A's, I wouldn't mind seeing him in those uniforms than in a Twin's. As long as he goes to a good team I don't care where he goes.

FWIW, A's fans I talked to in the Bay Area already have Frank penciled in. :o:

kevin57
01-04-2006, 07:00 PM
Given posters' consensus that Frank will most probably not be the DH for any team (rather someone who platoons), then a return to the White Sox may be realistic.

Several had pointed out that he would not have been happy/desirable here having to share AB's with Thome or Konerko. The argument: Fewer AB's = Much longer time to get to 500 HR's (assumed to be his last great goal before retiring).

However, if he's going to have to settle for fewer AB's with whatever team, might as well be the Sox. His heart and history are here...and most likely place for him to pick up a second ring. :D:

WhiteSoxFan84
01-04-2006, 08:26 PM
I don't know where he's going but I do know where he WAS ON NEW YEARS DAY: Las Vegas. My friend was there on vacation and he saw the Big Hurt at a Starbuck's. Got an autograph and everything. I think Frank lives there, doesn't he?

Flight #24
01-04-2006, 09:58 PM
FWIW, A's fans I talked to in the Bay Area already have Frank penciled in. :o:

That seemed to be the thinking before they traded for Milton Bradley. Now they'd have to decide between keeping Jay Payton in the OF (far superior defender to Swisher in the OF, and had a good year for them with the bat), and Frank. Plus they have a couple of young OFs in Kielty and Charles Thomas. So Frank's ABs would seem to be reasonable squeezed there as well, although they could decide to sacrifice the D, keep Swisher in the OF, and get Frank's bat in the order.

But it's far less of a need for them now than it was pre-Bradley.

Frater Perdurabo
01-05-2006, 08:46 AM
But is that in our best interests? 3 players on the roster who can play nothing but 1B?
I hope he signs with the Royals.

That's counterbalanced by having extremely versatile position players like Mackowiak and Ozuna on the team. Last year, the Sox carried two guys who could only DH - Frank and Everett - and one who could only play first or DH - Konerko. (Everett was not a viable option in the outfield.)

Starters (9) - Pods, Iguchi, Thome, Konerko, Dye, AJ, Crede, Uribe, Anderson
Bench (5) - Widger, Ozuna, Mackowiak, Frank, Borchard
Starting Pitchers (5) - Buehrle, Contreras, Garland, Garcia, Vazquez
Bullpen (6) - McCarthy, Politte, Cotts, Hermanson, Jenks, TBD LOOGY

Tragg
01-05-2006, 09:01 AM
That's counterbalanced by having extremely versatile position players like Mackowiak and Ozuna on the team. Last year, the Sox carried two guys who could only DH - Frank and Everett - and one who could only play first or DH - Konerko. (Everett was not a viable option in the outfield.)

Starters (9) - Pods, Iguchi, Thome, Konerko, Dye, AJ, Crede, Uribe, Anderson
Bench (5) - Widger, Ozuna, Mackowiak, Frank, Borchard
Starting Pitchers (5) - Buehrle, Contreras, Garland, Garcia, Vazquez
Bullpen (6) - McCarthy, Politte, Cotts, Hermanson, Jenks, TBD LOOGY
I see your point, Frater; but a) we had no choice last year as both were under contract; b)Frank was better than Everett - not sure he's better than Thome (right now anyway) - so by keeping him, we have a better hitter than the one who will probably remain healthy; c)Carl can still play outfield and did - not terribly well, but he played. He didn't play once Frank was done.

Shorty1983
01-13-2006, 03:12 AM
Frank will hang his spikes and retire a southsider. (sigh)