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View Full Version : All-Flub Potential Team


getonbckthr
01-02-2006, 02:09 AM
I'm thinking about doing this for as many teams as I can. I'm gonna look at players over the last decade who were can't miss prospects who either got traded from or when brought up couldn't live up to the potential. I will leave some holes that i'm unsure of. Feel free to help or add names. Here is what I got so far:
C-Jose Molina
1B- Hee Sop Choi
2B-Bobby Hill
SS-Augie Ojeda
3B-Kevin Orie
LF-Brant Brown
CF-Corey Patterson
RF-Brooks Kieschnick
SP- Kerry Wood
SP-Jon Garland
SP-Dontrell Willis
SP-Mark Prior
SP-Angel Guzman
RP-Kyle Farnsworth
RP-Todd Wellmyer

Banix12
01-02-2006, 02:57 AM
I'm thinking about doing this for as many teams as I can. I'm gonna look at players over the last decade who were can't miss prospects who either got traded from or when brought up couldn't live up to the potential. I will leave some holes that i'm unsure of. Feel free to help or add names. Here is what I got so far:
C-Jose Molina
1B- Hee Sop Choi
2B-Bobby Hill
SS-
3B-Kevin Orie
LF-Brant Brown
CF-Corey Patterson
RF-Brooks Kieschnick
SP- Kerry Wood
SP-Jon Garland
SP-Dontrell Willis
SP-Mark Prior
SP-Angel Guzman
RP-Kyle Farnsworth
RP-Todd Wellmyer

I don't get the point of adding in players they traded away. They should really be two separate lists. Failed prospects and the best players they traded away at each position.

Anyway if you are talking about cubs prospects. Your SS is Luis Montanez. Replace Dontrelle with Ben "I beaned a batter on deck in the face and destroyed his college playing career" Christensen, Dontrelle was never really a high prospect in their system as I recall. They were down on him because of his throwing motion. Your catcher is the king of all Cubs failures, Pat Cline.

I also think it is too early to throw Prior and Guzman on this list. Sure they have had some injury problems but they are still young. Wood i'm also reluctant to put on the list because all the signs were there for his injury issues. I'd say he's pretty much lived up to expectations. Electric arm when healthy, high K, high BB with some injury problems likely caused by overuse at a young age.

I think also you should have started with the white sox just so you don't get the tag "flubsessed". There is certainly a rich tapestry of failed sox prospects over the last twenty years to play with anyway.

veeter
01-02-2006, 08:53 AM
There is no comparing Sox propect failures to cub propect failures. Reason being, IMO, in no way are Sox prospects as heralded, lauded, hyped and put into the hall as much as cub prospects. I mean the cubs hype up a guy for YEARS, remember Ty Griffin? Then, if the cub prospect makes it to the bigs, a la Corey Patterson, they'll continue to say he's great even when he's proven he sucks. They even had the balls to ask Texas for Kevin Mench straight up for Patterson. So it's a mix of cubbie propaganda, arrogance and very poor scouting that spells doom for the prospects in the first place.

jdm2662
01-02-2006, 10:04 AM
There is no comparing Sox propect failures to cub propect failures. Reason being, IMO, in no way are Sox prospects as heralded, lauded, hyped and put into the hall as much as cub prospects. I mean the cubs hype up a guy for YEARS, remember Ty Griffin? Then, if the cub prospect makes it to the bigs, a la Corey Patterson, they'll continue to say he's great even when he's proven he sucks. They even had the balls to ask Texas for Kevin Mench straight up for Patterson. So it's a mix of cubbie propaganda, arrogance and very poor scouting that spells doom for the prospects in the first place.

Not so sure about that. Some people were putting Jeremy Reed in the hall of game before he even played a major league game. Do we need to live back to the Scott Ruffcorn, Rodney Bolton days. Two pitchers that were can't miss and untradeable...

RallyBowl
01-02-2006, 12:00 PM
Man, it sure is great to come back and see an awesome thread about the ****ing cubs. On a White Sox website, mind you. :rolleyes:

HomeFish
01-02-2006, 12:25 PM
Your SS has got to be Augie Ojeda.

chaerulez
01-02-2006, 12:35 PM
Your SS has got to be Augie Ojeda.

I don't think anyone considered him anything but a future bench player.

HomeFish
01-02-2006, 12:45 PM
I don't think anyone considered him anything but a future bench player.

You definately were not around a lot of Cub fans when he first came up.

HebrewHammer
01-02-2006, 04:16 PM
I was going to suggest Shawon Dunston as SS.

Has everyone forgotten about Mike Harkey? He was supposed to be the next big thing and he couldn't find the field.

Another favorite flub flame out was Jerome Walton. He won ROY and then ate himself out of the league.

Earl Cunningham? The immortal Ty Griffin? There was another SS they spent an insanely high pick on that never panned out. He had a hispanic name, the fact that I can't remember his name just goes to show that he was so awful he wasn't worth remembering.

jehosaphat
01-02-2006, 09:15 PM
I was going to suggest Shawon Dunston as SS.



I second the nomination - if I'm not mistaken, he came into the league in 85, the same year as Ozzie - Ozzie was the far better player - especially defensively where it really counts for the SS position, but you wouldn't have known it by the press. Dunston was being hailed as a sure bet for the HOF and Ozzie was pretty much ignored. Both Ozzie and Dunston had long careers, but Ozzie's was the superior and of course, Ozzie played practically his whole career with the Sox. Here were are today in 2006 and nobody but possibly Dunston's mother knows where he is today. On the other hand, Ozzie will never be forgotten in the city of Chicago.

Banix12
01-03-2006, 12:36 AM
I still have to say your SS is Luis Montanez, at least if we are going recent. Cubs 2000 #1 draft pick (#3 overall). Billed as their shortstop of the future and when he was drafted was being touted as another Derek Jeter by some. Drafted out of high school they thought he had a really slick glove at SS and really liked his bat. Six years later his glove has been shown to be so pathetic that they moved him to OF and his bat has yet to develop into anything special. Last year was the first time he made it to AA after spending 5 1/2 years in A Ball

He's only 24 so there is a chance he may make it to the big leagues someday as an OF but he will never be the shortstop they wanted when they drafted him and gave him close to $3 million bucks in 2000.

Banix12
01-03-2006, 12:40 AM
I was going to suggest Shawon Dunston as SS.

Has everyone forgotten about Mike Harkey? He was supposed to be the next big thing and he couldn't find the field.

Another favorite flub flame out was Jerome Walton. He won ROY and then ate himself out of the league.

Earl Cunningham? The immortal Ty Griffin? There was another SS they spent an insanely high pick on that never panned out. He had a hispanic name, the fact that I can't remember his name just goes to show that he was so awful he wasn't worth remembering.

Ty Griffin was a 2nd Baseman if I recall. There was actually talk of moving Sandberg to shortstop if he panned out.

monkeypants
01-03-2006, 01:02 AM
How can we forget outfielder Karl "Tuffy" Rhodes? Back in '94 he hit 3 homers on opening day and the Cub propaganda machine started churning. Inevitably he and the Cubs crapped out that year, along with the season.

wdelaney72
01-03-2006, 08:15 AM
Once this thread is retired, we might want to start the "All-Cub Simulated Team" thread.

Hitmen77
01-03-2006, 08:27 AM
I second the nomination - if I'm not mistaken, he came into the league in 85, the same year as Ozzie - Ozzie was the far better player - especially defensively where it really counts for the SS position, but you wouldn't have known it by the press. Dunston was being hailed as a sure bet for the HOF and Ozzie was pretty much ignored. Both Ozzie and Dunston had long careers, but Ozzie's was the superior and of course, Ozzie played practically his whole career with the Sox. Here were are today in 2006 and nobody but possibly Dunston's mother knows where he is today. On the other hand, Ozzie will never be forgotten in the city of Chicago.

Yep, that was a great example of a Cubs player getting a ton of hype in the Chicago media. Remember the Shawon-O-Meter? I recall Cub fans looking only at HR totals to "prove" their argument that Dunston was better that Guillen.

I brought up the old Dunston vs. argument in a thread a couple of months ago:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=61735

Hangar18
01-03-2006, 08:58 AM
So it's a mix of cubbie propaganda, arrogance and very poor scouting that spells doom for the prospects in the first place.

Well said. I know tons about flubby prospects because the Chicago Media cant wait to shove them down our throats. Its weird because the Cubs arent really known for having a good farm system. It was weird a couple years ago to hear cub fans talking about "prospects" in the minor leagues.
I mean it just doesnt happen. Cub fans talk about beer and babes and how "historic" Wrigley is, nothing about their minor league players. I do remember hearing about Patterson for years, and hearing about Wood and Garland at the same time, so when we traded for Garland, I already knew we were getting a hyped guy.

HebrewHammer
01-03-2006, 09:34 AM
I still have to say your SS is Luis Montanez, at least if we are going recent. Cubs 2000 #1 draft pick (#3 overall). Billed as their shortstop of the future and when he was drafted was being touted as another Derek Jeter by some. Drafted out of high school they thought he had a really slick glove at SS and really liked his bat. Six years later his glove has been shown to be so pathetic that they moved him to OF and his bat has yet to develop into anything special. Last year was the first time he made it to AA after spending 5 1/2 years in A Ball

He's only 24 so there is a chance he may make it to the big leagues someday as an OF but he will never be the shortstop they wanted when they drafted him and gave him close to $3 million bucks in 2000.

That was the guy I was trying to think of. I remember when he was picked he was hailed as the "Griffey" or "ARod" of that years class. Somewhere there is a warehouse full of "Montanez" jerseys.