PDA

View Full Version : Why Tejada?


SouthSideLove
01-01-2006, 05:12 PM
Someday I'm hoping to wake up and find a fellow White Sox fan actually satisfied with our offseason moves, rather than complain about the fact that we haven't pursued Miguel Tejada. Everywhere I look, whether its in the media, the forums, or hearsay, everyone is up and arms about Tejada. Who is Tejada? Why do we seem to believe that we need him so badly? I for one am not sold on the possibility of needing or pursuing Tejada for a number of reasons that I hope some of you smarter fans appreciate:

What's wrong with Uribe?
While adding Tejada would give the Sox more pop in their bats, Uribe exists as a great bottom of the lineup hitter. He can be clutch, and his arm equals or even surpasses Tejada's on some level. Were we to get Tejada, where would you put him? We already have so many good hitters in the middle of the lineup that we would be hard pressed to find a spot for him. Uribe serves us well enough, and for less than half the price.

White Sox Grinderball
When Kenny Williams made his offseason moves for Podsednik, Dye & Pierzynski last year, he not only gained quality players but revamped the entire method by which the Sox play ball. Instead of falling into power traps with players like Ordonez, Lee, & Valentine, Williams went with run producing players, not necessarily built for power, but for speed and OBP. Tejada does not fit into the equation Williams has set up on the South Side, and he would in fact be detrimental to it.

I hope I have raised some intriguing arguments here. Please let me know how you feel, and stop the demand for Tejada when really the reality is that we flat out do not need him.

HomeFish
01-01-2006, 05:14 PM
Nothing is wrong with Uribe. Tejada is simply light-years better at the plate.

SoXPriDe33
01-01-2006, 05:18 PM
Uribe is great don't get me wrong, he could start at SS almost anywhere but when there is a player that is available and an upgrade to what you have, you need to pursue that option. If Tejada wasn't available my guess is the majority of the posters here would be satisfied with Uribe at SS next season. I love what Uribe has brought to the Sox but bottomline Tejada is better.

HomeFish
01-01-2006, 05:21 PM
Were we to get Tejada, where would you put him?

Is that you, Hawk?

In any event, the lineup would probably end up looking like this:

Podsednik
Iguchi
Tejada
Konerko
Thome
Dye
Pierzynski
Crede
Anderson

Apart from Anderson and Crede, that's not a lineup with a lot of flaws.

Moreover, you could make another argument for the trade this way: Tejada is pretty much a sure-thing when it comes to offensive production, if you look at his historical norms. This year, the Sox had some guys who either played above their historical norms or who are injury or slump prone. For instance, there is a chance that Konerko will bat .220 the first half of the season, as he has semi-consistently had one bad half-season outside of 2005, and there are significant chances that Thome and/or Dye will be injured. Getting a proven offensive threat like Tejada would turn an injury or offyear for one or more of those three from a fatal event to something we could possibly survive.

The correct criticism of the Tejada trade, in my view, is that it stretches our pitching too thin. If we give up a starter, and then one of our Starting 5 gets injured, we're screwed, because our #5 spot becomes a black hole. And if 2 of our starters get injured...I don't even want to think about it.

JUribe1989
01-01-2006, 05:28 PM
You can put me down as one of the few who absolutely does NOT want Miguel Tejada. He's another Manny Ramirez that would jsut hurt team chemistry. The team we have now is fine.

SABRSox
01-01-2006, 05:33 PM
If this "Grinderball" attitude is what has a lot of people arguing against adding a bona-fide stud the likes of Miguel Tejada to the team, then I am sick of grinderball.

Why Miguel Tejada? Because he's good. Very, very good.

Fredsox
01-01-2006, 05:38 PM
You can put me down as one of the few who absolutely does NOT want Miguel Tejada. He's another Manny Ramirez that would jsut hurt team chemistry. The team we have now is fine.

Personal opinion: you have nothing to worry about. I think this trade is not likely to happen with a result of Tejada in a White Sox uniform. Too many other teams want him because they feel they NEED him. For us he's a "nice-to-have". That coupled with the blundering Orioles management I suspect that he'll either stay where he is or end up with the Red Sox.

Since my feelings are based upon nothing factual feel free to ignore this post entirely.

HomeFish
01-01-2006, 05:39 PM
There is more than one way to skin a cat, folks. Look at the 2003 and 2004 World Series. Completely different teams.

If the White Sox shift from being more like the 2003 Marlins to being more like the 2004 Red Sox, they are not necessarily decreasing their chances of winning a World Championship.

Jjav829
01-01-2006, 05:40 PM
Like I said before, nothing brings out the ridiculous posts like the subject of Miguel Tejada.

Someday I'm hoping to wake up and find a fellow White Sox fan actually satisfied with our offseason moves, rather than complain about the fact that we haven't pursued Miguel Tejada. Everywhere I look, whether its in the media, the forums, or hearsay, everyone is up and arms about Tejada.
Who is "up and arms about Tejada?"

No one is saying we have to go get Tejada or that our offseason hasn't already been a success. No one is saying that they aren't happy or satisfied if this is it for the offseason. The only thing being said is that Tejada can make us an ever better team than we are right now, and if he is available, and the Orioles have interest in our pitching, we can improve the team.


Who is Tejada?
He is a former MVP who happens to be the best all around shortstop currently playing the position.

Why do we seem to believe that we need him so badly?
We don't "need" him. However, his presence on our team could make an already great team even greater and provide us with more depth.

I for one am not sold on the possibility of needing or pursuing Tejada for a number of reasons that I hope some of you smarter fans appreciate:
Good for you. I guess us stupid fans can't appreciate your "geniusness." :rolleyes:

What's wrong with Uribe?
While adding Tejada would give the Sox more pop in their bats, Uribe exists as a great bottom of the lineup hitter. He can be clutch, and his arm equals or even surpasses Tejada's on some level. Were we to get Tejada, where would you put him? We already have so many good hitters in the middle of the lineup that we would be hard pressed to find a spot for him. Uribe serves us well enough, and for less than half the price.
Yeah, it would be so hard to find a place in the lineup for an MVP calibur player. :rolleyes:I'd rather have a guy who can bat 9th than another player who can hit in the middle of the order.

White Sox Grinderball
When Kenny Williams made his offseason moves for Podsednik, Dye & Pierzynski last year, he not only gained quality players but revamped the entire method by which the Sox play ball. Instead of falling into power traps with players like Ordonez, Lee, & Valentine, Williams went with run producing players, not necessarily built for power, but for speed and OBP. Tejada does not fit into the equation Williams has set up on the South Side, and he would in fact be detrimental to it.
Yeah, Pierzynski and Dye are such speed and OBP players. :?:

I hope I have raised some intriguing arguments here. Please let me know how you feel, and stop the demand for Tejada when really the reality is that we flat out do not need him.
Once again, there is no demand for Tejada. There are simply some people who think that Tejada is a great player and would like to add him to our team.

gr8mexico
01-01-2006, 05:46 PM
You can put me down as one of the few who absolutely does NOT want Miguel Tejada. He's another Manny Ramirez that would jsut hurt team chemistry. The team we have now is fine. How can you say that. You don't even know what kind of players Tejada is. Tejada is a type of player that always give 100% always wants to win and works real hard.How many games does Tejada miss a year? Tejada is the best SS in the game. Don't get me wrong I love Juan but if the Sox can get another SS I would want Tejada. Please before anyone trashes Tejada do some research.

Tragg
01-01-2006, 05:47 PM
Tejada for Uribe and Contreras and we've upgraded our O, and still have 5 good starters and kept the budget about the same. When you start throwing in prospects and this and that, it gets scary. Oh, and Contreras is one of those free agent to be players who "have no value", so we wouldn't have lost much.

Tejada for McCarthy and a good pitchign prospect and Uribe et al, , because we aren't dealing from excess and we're dealing a talented player who will be cheap for a long time. McCarthy has already come up huge in a big game for the Sox. We'd also have serious payroll issues, which would come back to bite us in the butt if we don't win this year or nex, and take away a lot of payroll leverage (let's not forget all of the new backloaded contracts we have taken on).

So, I don't really care as long as we leave McCarthy out of it, as he should be.

beckett21
01-01-2006, 05:49 PM
Like I said before, nothing brings out the ridiculous posts like the subject of Miguel Tejada.


Who is "up and arms about Tejada?"

No one is saying we have to go get Tejada or that our offseason hasn't already been a success. No one is saying that they aren't happy or satisfied if this is it for the offseason. The only thing being said is that Tejada can make us an ever better team than we are right now, and if he is available, and the Orioles have interest in our pitching, we can improve the team.



He is a former MVP who happens to be the best all around shortstop currently playing the position.


We don't "need" him. However, his presence on our team could make an already great team even greater and provide us with more depth.


Good for you. I guess us stupid fans can't appreciate your "geniusness." :rolleyes:


Yeah, it would be so hard to find a place in the lineup for an MVP calibur player. :rolleyes: I'd rather have a guy who can bat 9th than another player who can hit in the middle of the order.


Yeah, Pierzynski and Dye are such speed and OBP players. :?:


Once again, there is no demand for Tejada. There are simply some people who think that Tejada is a great player and would like to add him to our team.
Allow me to return the favor...

:worship::worship::worship: ----> Jjav

Bingo. I don't know what is so hard to understand.

Excuse me while I go back to running around like a crazed lunatic with my hands flailing in the air begging for the Sox to get Tejada. :rolleyes:

PushnThaEscalade
01-01-2006, 05:53 PM
I'd rather have a guy who can bat 9th than another player who can hit in the middle of the order.

:tealpolice:

man i always wanted to do that!

Exit_Only
01-01-2006, 05:57 PM
Someday I'm hoping to wake up and find a fellow White Sox fan actually satisfied with our offseason moves, rather than complain about the fact that we haven't pursued Miguel Tejada. Everywhere I look, whether its in the media, the forums, or hearsay, everyone is up and arms about Tejada. Who is Tejada? Why do we seem to believe that we need him so badly? I for one am not sold on the possibility of needing or pursuing Tejada for a number of reasons that I hope some of you smarter fans appreciate:


I somewhat agree. If we were to make a trade with Baltimore, I'd rather see us get Melvin Mora.

CWSpalehoseCWS
01-01-2006, 05:59 PM
Someday I'm hoping to wake up and find a fellow White Sox fan actually satisfied with our offseason moves, rather than complain about the fact that we haven't pursued Miguel Tejada. Everywhere I look, whether its in the media, the forums, or hearsay, everyone is up and arms about Tejada. Who is Tejada? Why do we seem to believe that we need him so badly? I for one am not sold on the possibility of needing or pursuing Tejada for a number of reasons that I hope some of you smarter fans appreciate:

What's wrong with Uribe?
While adding Tejada would give the Sox more pop in their bats, Uribe exists as a great bottom of the lineup hitter. He can be clutch, and his arm equals or even surpasses Tejada's on some level. Were we to get Tejada, where would you put him? We already have so many good hitters in the middle of the lineup that we would be hard pressed to find a spot for him. Uribe serves us well enough, and for less than half the price.

White Sox Grinderball
When Kenny Williams made his offseason moves for Podsednik, Dye & Pierzynski last year, he not only gained quality players but revamped the entire method by which the Sox play ball. Instead of falling into power traps with players like Ordonez, Lee, & Valentine, Williams went with run producing players, not necessarily built for power, but for speed and OBP. Tejada does not fit into the equation Williams has set up on the South Side, and he would in fact be detrimental to it.

I hope I have raised some intriguing arguments here. Please let me know how you feel, and stop the demand for Tejada when really the reality is that we flat out do not need him.

I agree with everything stated there, even if Tejada is a better player than Uribe.

buehrle4cy05
01-01-2006, 06:06 PM
I'd rather have a guy who can bat 9th than another player who can hit in the middle of the order.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v655/shingotime10/my-eyes.jpg

The Racehorse
01-01-2006, 06:13 PM
Because he's there. :wink:

getonbckthr
01-01-2006, 06:14 PM
If I remember correctly didn't Melvin Mora come up as a SS,3B and OF? If thats the case would Kenny be able to swing Crede and Contreras plus a minor leaguer or 2 for Tejada. Then move Uribe to 3B where in the past he has proved to be just as good there as he is at SS? That could also possible start an idea of (I remember seeing this on the board a couple of weeks ago) didn't Tampa say to get Crawford the Sox would have to give up Fields and more prospects? If so then maybe Crawford and Baez for Fields, Anderson, Haegar,Bajaneru (I read how some people here feel he won't be a/effective in the big leagues) and Gload.

ondafarm
01-01-2006, 06:56 PM
Why Tejada?

He's good, very good. Offensively, he is a solid upgrade over Uribe. Defensively, I think moving him to third and trading Joe Crede might work, especially what with the Yankee$ moving ARod there. Joe has the wrong agent.

You can't have too much offense as long as it doesn't impair your pitching or defense.

All this being said, I doubt he comes to the Sox.

SouthSideLove
01-01-2006, 06:57 PM
Thanks for your blunt response to my post. While you may feel I am uneducated in this discussion, think twice. When I speak of Tejada, I am in no way down playing his abilities, his statistical history, or his League & All-Star MVPs. However, its good to keep in mind that the prospect of acquiring Tejada is something that affects the entire team. Even if you trade away Uribe, Contreras and a few prospects for Tejada, who knows what it does to the chemistry of the team. I'm not speaking against Tejada, but advocating the formula that even Paul Konerko stated, "If it's not broke, don't fix it."

Getting Tejada would make us into the 2004-2005 New York Yankees, too many egos, too much salary cap squandered, and nothing to gain. The team we have is fine, don't hawk for more when we don't need it.

sircaffey1
01-01-2006, 07:06 PM
Getting Tejada would make us into the 2004-2005 New York Yankees, too many egos, too much salary cap squandered, and nothing to gain.

LOL, wow....

Chisox003
01-01-2006, 07:08 PM
LOL, wow....
Heh heh.....

:rolleyes:

AnkleSox
01-01-2006, 07:24 PM
I think we really need to keep all 6 starting pitchers we have with either vazquez or mccarthy going to the bullpen. If we get rid of one of them we have no insurance for injury, and a very thin bullpen. Sure, are starters are all capable of going 7+ innings most of the time out there, but won't it be quite a workload on cotts and politte if theyre used every single day after those 7 innings? Hermanson has a history of injury, and Jenks tires out if he gets used too often, making him much less effective.

Having someone to fill the gap left by Vizcaino and Marte is something that I feel is very important to the team. If we get Tejada and one of our starters goes down, then we have the same problem we did before 2005; we have no fifth starter. Add that to a thin bullpen and we may end up losing plenty of slugfests like we have in years past.

Now, if Kenny can get Tejada as well as one or two quality bullpen arms, I'm all for it. But that doesn't seem likely. I think it's important to focus on the bullpen right now. The two castoffs, Marte and Vizcaino, both had ERA's under 4.00, and they were our WORST pitchers. If we want to be as successful in one-run games as we were last year, I think we need to keep all the pitching we have right now.

ChiSoxIn06
01-01-2006, 07:59 PM
Is that you, Hawk?

In any event, the lineup would probably end up looking like this:

Podsednik
Iguchi
Tejada
Konerko
Thome
Dye
Pierzynski
Crede
Anderson



why not hit tejada 2nd? then you could move iguchi down in the lineup like ozzie wants to do and have a 2 spot hitter with a high BA and the threat of going deep all while pods wreaks havoc on the basepath.

HomeFish
01-01-2006, 08:13 PM
why not hit tejada 2nd? then you could move iguchi down in the lineup like ozzie wants to do and have a 2 spot hitter with a high BA and the threat of going deep all while pods wreaks havoc on the basepath.

Two reasons;

First, I'm not at all convinced that Iguchi can be a successful RBI guy further down in the lineup, and second I think Tejada would be wasted there, having to move runners over and what not.

gr8mexico
01-01-2006, 08:38 PM
Getting Tejada would make us into the 2004-2005 New York Yankees, too many egos, too much salary cap squandered, and nothing to gain. The team we have is fine, don't hawk for more when we don't need it. The difference between the 04 & 05 Yankees & the 06 Sox is that the Sox have pitching and would have a great offense. If KW & Ozzie didn't think Tejada would be a good fit for this team they wouldn't even consider him. If the Sox made a trade for Tejada I think it would only be Contreras and Uribe unless the Orioles added another pitcher to the deal. The only reason Tejada wants to leave Baltimore is because he is sick and tired of loosing. The guy is a workhorse and you can tell by all the game he has played in since he made it to the big leagues.

sircaffey1
01-01-2006, 10:33 PM
The only reason Tejada wants to leave Baltimore is because he is sick and tired of loosing. The guy is a workhorse and you can tell by all the game he has played in since he made it to the big leagues.
Exactly. Tejada wants out not because of a poor stretch of games, but a few years of obviously ineptitude by the Baltimore organization. Miguel even said that he would like to remain in Baltimore if they made strides to get better. His passion to win is widely regarded as one of the strongest in the league. A player like that can not survive in the Orioles organization. Can you really blame him for being fed up with the Orioles? They are one of the poorer organizations in baseball...

1951Campbell
01-01-2006, 11:30 PM
Nothing is wrong with Uribe. Tejada is simply light-years better at the plate.

Exactly. Now, why there are so many posts in this thread after the above is beyond me.

Nellie_Fox
01-02-2006, 01:02 AM
I'm surprised no one has brought up the possible steroid connection. Palmeiro blamed it on a "B-12" injection Tejada gave him. Canseco reports in this week's Sports Illustrated that during the hey-day of steroids in Oakland, the players jokingly referred to injecting Winstrol as their "B-12 injections," and said that Palmeiro's statement would have fit, although he knew that Palmeiro knew full well what was in them.

Say what you will about Canseco, including that it's hypocritical for him to play the "good guy" now, when he was one of the worst offenders at the height of steroid use, but he's been the most honest, and been proven to be the most right. Tejada played with Canseco, McGwire and Giambi in Oakland.

voodoochile
01-02-2006, 01:35 AM
Thanks for your blunt response to my post. While you may feel I am uneducated in this discussion, think twice. When I speak of Tejada, I am in no way down playing his abilities, his statistical history, or his League & All-Star MVPs. However, its good to keep in mind that the prospect of acquiring Tejada is something that affects the entire team. Even if you trade away Uribe, Contreras and a few prospects for Tejada, who knows what it does to the chemistry of the team. I'm not speaking against Tejada, but advocating the formula that even Paul Konerko stated, "If it's not broke, don't fix it."

Getting Tejada would make us into the 2004-2005 New York Yankees, too many egos, too much salary cap squandered, and nothing to gain. The team we have is fine, don't hawk for more when we don't need it.
Let me see, you speculate that the team will automatically have a negative net gain in team chemistry.

You then speculate that the Sox will have too many egos, too high a payroll (even though the rumored move only adds $1M to the total). You then speculate that there is NOTHING TO GAIN ( :o: ) by adding a middle of the order bat over an end of the order bat and finish it off with "the team we have is fine."

I never did get the argument that a given move MUST have a negative impact on every area that is not statistical simply because the team had a good year last year.

Oh and the statistical impact is HUGE...

Nothing wrong with Uribe. He's a fine SS. He plays good defense. He hits for some power. He plays hard.

and then there are guys like Tejada...

Heck, there was nothing wrong with putting Gload at 1B next year and moving PK to DH, right? I mean we wouldn't want to take a chance that Thome might have a negative impact on team chemistry...:rolleyes:

(did that last paragraph really need to be in teal?)

gr8mexico
01-02-2006, 08:56 AM
I'm surprised no one has brought up the possible steroid connection. Palmeiro blamed it on a "B-12" injection Tejada gave him. Canseco reports in this week's Sports Illustrated that during the hey-day of steroids in Oakland, the players jokingly referred to injecting Winstrol as their "B-12 injections," and said that Palmeiro's statement would have fit, although he knew that Palmeiro knew full well what was in them.

Say what you will about Canseco, including that it's hypocritical for him to play the "good guy" now, when he was one of the worst offenders at the height of steroid use, but he's been the most honest, and been proven to be the most right. Tejada played with Canseco, McGwire and Giambi in Oakland. Did you even read the book. Jose never saw Tejada injecting himself. Canseco was saying that Tejada is a really hard worker and that might be the reason he is so good. If Tejada on the juice why did he perform so good last year. I think his numbers would be alot better if he was inserted in to the Sox lineup with either Konerko or Thome batting behind him and playing @USCF. Can you Imagen how many players could make the All-Star team next year WOW. If Tejada got traded to the Sox he would be 1. So it would be Mark B.,Jon G.,Paulie &Tejada. I didn't include Thome because next years All-Star game is in Pittsburg.

Tragg
01-02-2006, 09:01 AM
Tejada had an excellent year in a drug-testing year. That's good enough for me, and he's never been seriously suspected anyway. On the other hand, Bonds wouldn't play much and Sosa stunk up the joint in the first drug-testing year.

As for chemistry, comparisons with Thome or anyone else, dismiss the key fact that there is tangible evidence to question Tejada's attitude - his public and incessant whining about a contract he signed that compelled him to play in Baltimore. I don't care about him helping statistically - I care about him helping us score more runs and win more games, which he likely would. Just leave McCarthy out of it.

FarWestChicago
01-02-2006, 10:05 AM
Tejada had an excellent year in a drug-testing year. That's good enough for me...Actually, that's not logical at all. They didn't test for HGH and numerous other substances. It's not like the testing was infallible. Those caught were just complete morons.

Mickster
01-02-2006, 10:39 AM
Actually, that's not logical at all. They didn't test for HGH and numerous other substances. It's not like the testing was infallible. Those caught were just complete morons.

Absolutely correct. :thumbsup:

DickAllen72
01-02-2006, 08:40 PM
Nothing is wrong with Uribe. Tejada is simply light-years better at the plate.

Light years? Tejada hit only 7 home runs post all star break last season. Uribe hit 7 home runs in September alone.

Historically, Tejada is a much better hitter. But what caused his dismal production in the last four months or so of 2005? Not enough B12? Just wondering...

I'd rather trade for Andruw Jones if he were available.

Tragg
01-03-2006, 12:09 AM
Light years? Tejada hit only 7 home runs post all star break last season.

Eeek - not a good stat.
I'll be perfectly happy if we don't get him; and based on the proposals I've seen, I'd prefer we didn't.

Nellie_Fox
01-03-2006, 12:35 AM
Did you even read the book.I wasn't referring to the book. I was referring to Canseco quotes in Sports Illustrated last week. All he said was that Palmeiro's reference to Tejada giving him a "B-12" shot would have made sense, since Winstrol was referred to as "B-12" on the A's.