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Mark
12-30-2005, 03:54 PM
I know Hal, Ol' No. 2 and Lip will appreciate this, and hopefully some others as well:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1965-TOMMY-JOHN-Joel-Horlen-WHITE-SOX-SPORTING-NEWS_W0QQitemZ8742857778QQcategoryZ25132QQssPageNa meZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I must admit to not being familiar with Bruce Howard.

TornLabrum
12-30-2005, 04:21 PM
Howard was the guy the Sox kept when they gave up Denny McLain. He hurt his arm and that pretty much ruined his career. Of course, McLain ended up ruining his own life, so I guess that's some compensation.

WSox597
12-30-2005, 04:45 PM
I remember those guys well. What a year Horlen had in '67, only to fall short in the last game of the season.

The Sox and Horlen lost the last game of the year to the Athletics and Boston went to the Series. Where they lost to the Cards. Talk about coming this close.

TornLabrum
12-30-2005, 04:47 PM
I remember those guys well. What a year Horlen had in '67, only to fall short in the last game of the season.

The Sox and Horlen lost the last game of the year to the Athletics and Boston went to the Series. Where they lost to the Cards. Talk about coming this close.

Been getting your Sox history lessons from Mike North?

Lip Man 1
12-30-2005, 04:52 PM
The difference is McLain won about 100 more games then Howard before he ruined his life!

Here is the story by the way of the how and why the Sox let McLain go:

April 8, 1963- Two pitchers faced off against each other in an intrasquad game that would determine who stayed in the organization. Both pitchers were 1962 "bonus babies" and under league rules the Sox could only keep one. Bruce Howard would win the game 2-1 and get a ticket to the Sox Double AA affiliate in Lynchberg, Virginia. Denny McLain (yes THAT Denny McLain) was released and signed by the Tigers the next week.

By the way Howard's son pitched briefly with the Sox in the early 90's.

Lip

Lip Man 1
12-30-2005, 04:53 PM
Hal:

Great comeback....yea I guess he was listening to the idiot!

Lip

TDog
12-30-2005, 10:30 PM
Howard was the guy the Sox kept when they gave up Denny McLain. He hurt his arm and that pretty much ruined his career. Of course, McLain ended up ruining his own life, so I guess that's some compensation.

McLain ruined his arm long before he ruined his life. But McLain first won two Cy Young awards and pitched for a winning team in a World Series. After winning 31 games in 1968, he was practically done in 1970. His suspension at the beginning of the season had something to do with it, but the suspension, based on his personality, might have been easier to predict than his success.

The fact is, I don't know if I would have chosen McLain over Howard if I were in the position of the White Sox. Pitching is a fragile commodity. Had Howard stayed healthy, he might have turned out to be the better pitcher.

Wsoxmike59
12-31-2005, 04:00 PM
I remember how Harry Caray on the White Sox radio station in 1971 kept a Denny McClain watch on his loss column on his way to a 20 loss season, in a HOW THE MIGHTY HAVE FALLEN type of deal.

I also remember Duane Josephson the Sox catcher in those years remarked in either 1970 or '71 when questioned what he felt the difference was between Denny McClain the 31 game winner and the Denny McClain of the present day...he quipped "About 3 feet. That's how much he's lost off his fastball"

Hitmen77
12-31-2005, 04:58 PM
That TSN cover looks like the Sun-Times sports section cover from this Thursday. It says "FULL HOUSE" and has the six Sox starters' pictures on Aces and Kings.:cool:

WSox597
12-31-2005, 06:11 PM
"Been getting your Sox history lessons from Mike North?"

What did I get wrong? They lost out to Boston right? Boston went to the Series right? Cards won right? What did I get wrong?

Nice way to correct someone. Happy New Year to you.

WSox597
12-31-2005, 06:17 PM
Okay, I looked it up. Sox finished 3 games back of Boston. I remembered it wrong, seemed a lot closer. Sue me.

It was still a good year, and a good team. Horlen was going for his 20th win and didn't make it.

I've never listenen to Mike North except by accident.

TornLabrum
12-31-2005, 06:44 PM
"Been getting your Sox history lessons from Mike North?"

What did I get wrong? They lost out to Boston right? Boston went to the Series right? Cards won right? What did I get wrong?

Nice way to correct someone. Happy New Year to you.

Where do I begin? For starters, the Sox didn't lose to KC in the last game of the season. What they did was play the A's on September 27, trailing the Twins by a half game. They had a doubleheader that day, Peters and Horlen going for the Sox. They lost the doubleheader dropping them to 89-70, 1.5 games behind the Twins.

The Sox didn't win another game, and were eliminated on September 29 by the Senators. They finished the year at 89-73, 3 games behind the Red Sox, in fourth place behind the Twins and Tigers, who tied for second a game behind the Red Sox.

Other than that, you got all your facts straight.

And Happy New Year to you, too.

WSox597
12-31-2005, 07:16 PM
I corrected most of that in my second post. As I said, I remembered it as being closer, anyone can make a mistake due to memory.

I didn't look it up before I posted, as you obviously did.

But hey, thanks for the correction and the gratuitous insults.