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Whitesox4ever
12-30-2005, 08:57 AM
From today tribune

Three weeks later, only a handful of clubs—the Cubs, White Sox and Red Sox most prominently—reportedly are left in what can be described best as a silent auction. No one really is talking for the record about how far trade talks have gone.


White Sox: If the Orioles trade Tejada, they would need a shortstop, and the White Sox would be willing to part with Juan Uribe as part of a deal. They also might be willing to trade Jose Contreras, who might have been baseball's best pitcher the last two months last season. Would GM Ken Williams really break up his world championship lineup? In a heartbeat. After adding Jim Thome this winter, Williams would turn around a lineup that was very average last season.

The problem for the White Sox is money. Their payroll already is projected at $95 million, which is $20 million more than last season.

Still, to add someone of Tejada's quality to a team already capable of winning again would intrigue Williams, who adores big-name players.

The names don't come any bigger than Miguel Tejada.

samram
12-30-2005, 09:05 AM
I'm all for Tejada coming to the Sox, but KW has to make it work financially. The case could be that the things he's said recently about their being a little above where they would like to be are bull****, but they have certainly taken on a lot of commitments this offseason. Maybe their revenue projections are higher than they originally thought. It will be interesting to see what happens with Contreras- will he be used to get Tejada or Abreu, traded for prospects, or stuck right back in the rotation?

voodoochile
12-30-2005, 09:10 AM
I'm all for Tejada coming to the Sox, but KW has to make it work financially. The case could be that the things he's said recently about their being a little above where they would like to be are bull****, but they have certainly taken on a lot of commitments this offseason. Maybe their revenue projections are higher than they originally thought. It will be interesting to see what happens with Contreras- will he be used to get Tejada or Abreu, traded for prospects, or stuck right back in the rotation?

If the Sox land Tejada, ticket sales would take another bump. In fact they would probably sell every season ticket they have left, IMO. That bump alone would seal the deal and look at the long term ramifications. 5 SP, Thome, Konerko, Tejada, AJ, Pods (arbitration), and Iguchi would all be back for 2007 too. That's how you build a winner and a fan base, by proving you are in it to win it year after year after year.

itsnotrequired
12-30-2005, 09:15 AM
If the Sox land Tejada, ticket sales would take another bump. In fact they would probably sell every season ticket they have left, IMO. That bump alone would seal the deal and look at the long term ramifications. 5 SP, Thome, Konerko, Tejada, AJ, Pods (arbitration), and Iguchi would all be back for 2007 too. That's how you build a winner and a fan base, by proving you are in it to win it year after year after year.

Amen. If the Sox go to the WS in 2006, tickets in 2007 will be next to impossible to get especially if they add someone like Tejada to the mix.

Next season is going to rule...

samram
12-30-2005, 09:29 AM
If the Sox land Tejada, ticket sales would take another bump. In fact they would probably sell every season ticket they have left, IMO. That bump alone would seal the deal and look at the long term ramifications. 5 SP, Thome, Konerko, Tejada, AJ, Pods (arbitration), and Iguchi would all be back for 2007 too. That's how you build a winner and a fan base, by proving you are in it to win it year after year after year.
No doubt that's the correct philosophy. I don't know where they stand in terms of season ticket sales. In my mind, they're proven they're in it to win it every year, so my question would be what is the possible incremental increase in revenue they would receive by acquiring Tejada. Are there that many people out there who haven't bought season tickets yet that would do so if they got Tejada? On the other hand, walk ups would probably increase. Hell, I would send the Sox money just for the pleasure of watching them from my place 600 miles away.

SOecks
12-30-2005, 09:30 AM
I don't think the Sox can go wrong either way. I really like the effort and potential of Uribe and like the flexibility of having 6 legit starters. I'd also be just as happy to give them up for a guy like Tejada. If KW can afford it and thinks it's a good deal then go for it. I'm just not sure that Baltimore would accept that though if they didn't take what the Cubs were offering (Prior, Hill, Patterson) even though they wanted Bedard back as well. No use in speculating until next Wednesday though.

Hitmen77
12-30-2005, 09:31 AM
I don't think it would be such a big financial hurdle to get Tejada. If I'm not mistaken (Uribe + Contreras salaries) = (5mil + 6mil) = 11 million. Tejada makes 12 million a year. Only an extra million to the Sox payroll, right??

That being said, I have a problem with a player that signs a contract with a team that guarantees him $72 million and then he turns around and complains about wanting to be trading a couple of years later. Though, I'll be the first to admit that I can easily get over this problem if Tejada has an MVP-type season with us and helps us win another WS. :smile:

what I really don't get is the Cubs being in the running if Tejada want out of Baltimore because of their losing ways. If someone wants to be traded to a winner, then why are the Cubs in the running?? Especially a Cubs team minus Prior or Zambrano!! :kukoo:

ilsox7
12-30-2005, 09:36 AM
I don't think it would be such a big financial hurdle to get Tejada. If I'm not mistaken (Uribe + Contreras salaries) = (5mil + 6mil) = 11 million. Tejada makes 12 million a year. Only an extra million to the Sox payroll, right??

That being said, I have a problem with a player that signs a contract with a team that guarantees him $72 million and then he turns around and complains about wanting to be trading a couple of years later. Though, I'll be the first to admit that I can easily get over this problem if Tejada has an MVP-type season with us and helps us win another WS. :smile:

what I really don't get is the Cubs being in the running if Tejada want out of Baltimore because of their losing ways. If someone wants to be traded to a winner, then why are the Cubs in the running?? Especially a Cubs team minus Prior or Zambrano!! :kukoo:

The problem would not be 2006. It would be the payroll in 2007 and beyond. We have a few guys who get significant raises in 2007 if I am not mistaken. Granted, if the team makes another World Series run, the revenue will be there. However, if there are injuries or they underachieve, you would be in danger of a couple of trades being made to cut payroll.

All of this is unlikely, though, as I doubt Tejada comes here and I am confident we will have another very good year.

daveeym
12-30-2005, 09:40 AM
No doubt that's the correct philosophy. I don't know where they stand in terms of season ticket sales. In my mind, they're proven they're in it to win it every year, so my question would be what is the possible incremental increase in revenue they would receive by acquiring Tejada. Are there that many people out there who haven't bought season tickets yet that would do so if they got Tejada? On the other hand, walk ups would probably increase. Hell, I would send the Sox money just for the pleasure of watching them from my place 600 miles away. Go to the Sox site and see what the best available is for a split season package right now. The Sox have already gotten a HUGE bump in season tix sold. Imagine what would happen if they got Tejada. I bought a few weeks ago because I didn't want to get locked out next season.

For the double play package for anything more than a single there's only lower level seats available at the very top of section 155.

voodoochile
12-30-2005, 09:43 AM
The problem would not be 2006. It would be the payroll in 2007 and beyond. We have a few guys who get significant raises in 2007 if I am not mistaken. Granted, if the team makes another World Series run, the revenue will be there. However, if there are injuries or they underachieve, you would be in danger of a couple of trades being made to cut payroll.

All of this is unlikely, though, as I doubt Tejada comes here and I am confident we will have another very good year.

Tejada gives the team flexibility offensively. If the pitching doesn't duplicate last year's numbers during the season, being able to score more runs might be the ticket to winning the division again and taking another crack at a playoff run. It's really a no-brainer, IMO. Flexibility on ways to win games is a good thing.

Tragg
12-30-2005, 09:43 AM
What would we have to give up for Tejada? Contreras, Uribe and what else?

I don't like complaining about a contract he signed either.

voodoochile
12-30-2005, 09:45 AM
What would we have to give up for Tejada? Contreras, Uribe and what else?

That's a pretty decent package right there. But, the Sox could throw in some mid-level pitching prospects (AA ball or lower, IMO) if it seals the deal. O's are always looking for more pitching.

itsnotrequired
12-30-2005, 09:47 AM
Hell, I would send the Sox money just for the pleasure of watching them from my place 600 miles away.


:reinsy

"We could use more fans like you, samram."

ilsox7
12-30-2005, 09:47 AM
Tejada gives the team flexibility offensively. If the pitching doesn't duplicate last year's numbers during the season, being able to score more runs might be the ticket to winning the division again and taking another crack at a playoff run. It's really a no-brainer, IMO. Flexibility on ways to win games is a good thing.

I completely agree. I am just saying that the salary implications extend beyond just 2006. If the deal is JC, Uribe and a prospect for Tejada, you do it, IMO. Then you just hope like all hell that the revenue stream keeps increasing over the next few years, which, with the team that would be assembled, it should.

The nice thing about all of this is that we are pretty much set either way. If there is no trade, we have upgraded our offense and our pitching the last 2 months. If we do get Tejada, we have still upgraded our pitcing some while making a HUGE leap on offense. A no lose situation, really.

ilsox7
12-30-2005, 09:50 AM
What would we have to give up for Tejada? Contreras, Uribe and what else?

I don't like complaining about a contract he signed either.

Normally I hate when players complain about contracts they signed. And Tejada knew what he was getting into in Baltimore, so I don't feel too much for him. However, he is a guy that has played every game for the last 5 years. By all accounts, he not only respects the game, but believes that the only way to play the game is to play it every day. I think I heard him say once that if he didn't play one day and a kid was at the park to see him, he would disappoint that kid and he didn't want that.

It would actually be interesting to see what Oz did with him. We know Oz loves to give days off. Would Tejada get those days off? Might not be a bad idea as he would be fresh for the Pennant Run. If I am not mistaken his numbers tailed off in the 2nd half last year.

Whitesox4ever
12-30-2005, 09:50 AM
Bruce Levine says that the Sox are no longer an option for Tejada because of money..

ilsox7
12-30-2005, 09:51 AM
Bruce Levine says that the Sox are no longer an option for Tejada because of money..

Well, I think we can all assume that Tejada will almost definitely be a member of the White Sox in the coming days then.

jehosaphat
12-30-2005, 09:56 AM
What would we have to give up for Tejada? Contreras, Uribe and what else?

I don't like complaining about a contract he signed either.

Actually, it strikes me as odd that he is complaining. In the true spirit of the "what's the score, dude" section, I'd suggest that he is very unhappy with Baltimore organization at this point in time. He liked it in Oakland, and for whatever reason, he doesn't like the system (e.g,. players, managers and coaches, fans) in Baltimore, and he has reached the conclusion that Baltimore either doesn't want to win or simply can't win in the AL East.

I think Tejada is truly one of the great players in the league, and he will be outstanding for the next five years. I love Uribe, and Contreras has certainly come into his own, but if Balt is willing to trade Tejada for Contreras and Uribe, then I'd do it in a minute. Defensively and offensively we're stronger for it.

Of course, if he's so expensive you have to sell off half the team in 2007, then don't do it. But, I don't know much about the economics of the situation, and all I can think is what a player he'd be to have on the roster.

samram
12-30-2005, 09:59 AM
Go to the Sox site and see what the best available is for a split season package right now. The Sox have already gotten a HUGE bump in season tix sold. Imagine what would happen if they got Tejada. I bought a few weeks ago because I didn't want to get locked out next season.

For the double play package for anything more than a single there's only lower level seats available at the very top of section 155.

Well, that's my point. How much more can they sell to cover another payroll increase if they've already had such a huge bump?

I checked it out. There's not a whole lot left. I don't know how much they leave available for individual game purchases, but if it would be enough to cover Tejada (and let's not forget other revenue sources that would also help to cover a higher player payroll), then I don't really see why it couldn't work financially, even considering significant raises for Podsednik (who could be gone after next year anyway), Garland, and Crede.

veeter
12-30-2005, 10:03 AM
From a pure winning stand point I don't like the Tejada deal. We'd lose a tremendous arm in Jose. We'd also lose a GREAT defensive shortstop...two guys we've won it all with! Kenny's already improved the offense enough to repeat IMO. However, IF the objective is to not only win, but to make the south side a baseball Mecca, if you will, the move makes sense. Big names draw big attention. In my gut though, I like flying under the radar. You don't do that with a lot of marquee guys.

Tragg
12-30-2005, 10:04 AM
I completely agree. I am just saying that the salary implications extend beyond just 2006. And Konerko's deal is backloaded, Garland's deal is backloaded, and Vasquez comes with an immense salary, and I'm not sure whether the Sox pro-rate the cash they got across the length of the remaining contract, or whether they take all the cash against this year's contract amount (anyone have any insight into Sox accounting practices there?).

Tekijawa
12-30-2005, 10:05 AM
Bruce Levine says that the Sox are no longer an option for Tejada because of money..

Looks like Tejada has a chance to play for one of three losers next year. Baltmore being the worst, Cubs having the Second worst Chance at making it to the Play offs and Boston has to beat out the Yanks, as always, and a Retooled Toronto team...

daveeym
12-30-2005, 10:07 AM
Well, I think we can all assume that Tejada will almost definitely be a member of the White Sox in the coming days then. Yeah no ****. Levine and the Cubune think if they keep saying this Kenny will look at his payroll spreadsheet and say, "damn, they're right, I gotta stop." They've been saying that for over a month now after every move and never take into consideration the money going out the door.

wsox3505
12-30-2005, 10:09 AM
Everyone needs to relax and realize that KW has already expressed his desire to take the payroll to the next level. I don't know where the quote is exactly, but he has said it himself that the next move for the wsox is to compete every year and by that he means, compete with the top payrolls in all of baseball.

I believe that he is prepared to do this NOW and getting Tejada for uribe/contreras/prospect is certainly a possibility. As a diehard fan, I will still think about what a player is making or thinks he's worth on the market and how it relates to payroll, but I will not discount the possibility of that player coming here solely because the payroll is too high.

Welcome to the new Chicago White Sox. . . .big market team!

ilsox7
12-30-2005, 10:14 AM
Everyone needs to relax and realize that KW has already expressed his desire to take the payroll to the next level. I don't know where the quote is exactly, but he has said it himself that the next move for the wsox is to compete every year and by that he means, compete with the top payrolls in all of baseball.

I believe that he is prepared to do this NOW and getting Tejada for uribe/contreras/prospect is certainly a possibility. As a diehard fan, I will still think about what a player is making or thinks he's worth on the market and how it relates to payroll, but I will not discount the possibility of that player coming here solely because the payroll is too high.

Welcome to the new Chicago White Sox. . . .big market team!

Well, we have gone from ~$75MM in 2005 to an estimated payroll of $95MM in 2006. That's about a 27% increase year-over-year, which is significant. An in-depth analysis of escalating contracts would also have to be done and I am pretty sure it would leave the Sox with a payroll well in excess of $100MM in 2007 without Tejada. Of course, if BA is a stud and makes letting a guy like Dye go and replacing him with one of our prospects, then you have some more money to play with. But can we count on that? KW's answer to that question will determine if this team wins another World Series or two in the next few years.

Dick Allen
12-30-2005, 10:17 AM
Supposedly, the Red Sox offered the most attractive package, Manny Ramirez and Matt Clement.

ilsox7
12-30-2005, 10:19 AM
Supposedly, the Red Sox offered the most attractive package, Manny Ramirez and Matt Clement.

Except that would have the O's taking on significant salary and also keep Tejada within the division. Plus, it doesn't solve there biggest problem: no good starting pitching.

samram
12-30-2005, 10:20 AM
Well, we have gone from ~$75MM in 2005 to an estimated payroll of $95MM in 2006. That's about a 27% increase year-over-year, which is significant. An in-depth analysis of escalating contracts would also have to be done and I am pretty sure it would leave the Sox with a payroll well in excess of $100MM in 2007 without Tejada. Of course, if BA is a stud and makes letting a guy like Dye go and replacing him with one of our prospects, then you have some more money to play with. But can we count on that? KW's answer to that question will determine if this team wins another World Series or two in the next few years.

Well, another big increase will be Podsednik, who, if he hits .290 with 60 SBs again, would probably get around $7.5M in arbitration. However, Owens may be ready to step into that spot.

Fenway
12-30-2005, 10:23 AM
One would think being in Tampa Bay I could escape the hysteria for a few days but no......

The Devil Rays beat writer was just on WDAE here and says the talks have now gotten to the point that Boston would give up one of their top prospects to Tampa in return for Rocco Baldelli going to the Red Sox as part of the deal between Baltimore, Mets, Tampa and Boston.

ilsox7
12-30-2005, 10:25 AM
One would think being in Tampa Bay I could escape the hysteria for a few days but no......

The Devil Rays beat writer was just on WDAE here and says the talks have now gotten to the point that Boston would give up one of their top prospects to Tampa in return for Rocco Baldelli going to the Red Sox as part of the deal between Baltimore, Mets, Tampa and Boston.

Why don't Baltimore, TB, and Boston just throw all of their players' names into a hat and pick them out one-by-one and see which team gets what players. Seriously, all three of those teams are in big trouble for 2006 if the season were to start today. That and I am really sick of hearing about Manny, Miggy, and potential deals for TB outfielders.

samram
12-30-2005, 10:31 AM
Why don't Baltimore, TB, and Boston just throw all of their players' names into a hat and pick them out one-by-one and see which team gets what players. Seriously, all three of those teams are in big trouble for 2006 if the season were to start today. That and I am really sick of hearing about Manny, Miggy, and potential deals for TB outfielders.

I just can't imagine a deal with three teams from the same division involved. Furthermore, I think deals like that are dreamed up by guys on the east coast who don't know players on teams not on the east coast.

ilsox7
12-30-2005, 10:34 AM
I just can't imagine a deal with three teams from the same division involved. Furthermore, I think deals like that are dreamed up by guys on the east coast who don't know players on teams not on the east coast.

Agreed. It sure is funny to watch all of them get riled up for weeks about trades and free agent signings, only to see KW come out of nowhere to announce blockbuster deals and signings below market value.

voodoochile
12-30-2005, 10:48 AM
Except that would have the O's taking on significant salary and also keep Tejada within the division. Plus, it doesn't solve there biggest problem: no good starting pitching.

O's have no problem keeping payroll higher. They just took ShamME and Raffy's contracts off the books and have (as always) a ton of revenue to play with. They have the closest situation to the flubbies in baseball (Texas draws well regardless of record too). O's can definitely afford Manny and they are also definitely interested in more pitching.

Seems like a tough deal for the Red Sox though. They cannot afford to give up any pitching.

BNLSox
12-30-2005, 11:00 AM
Well, I think we can all assume that Tejada will almost definitely be a member of the White Sox in the coming days then.

LOL! Well put.

Also in response to the playing time and Tejada being afraid of disappointing a little boy . . . Seeing the 2006 White Sox is still about going to see Defense, Pitching, and strategic baseball. That little kid should only be disappointed if its Podsednick and Crede's offday and Vazquez is pitching. Tejada, just icing on a Beautiful cake!

PaleHoseGeorge
12-30-2005, 11:01 AM
You can usually count on the Cubune to miss the most salient point to virtually any story, baseball or otherwise. This one was no exception.

Whether the Sox get Tejada or not, their mere presence in the bidding for Tejada, dangling Jose Contreras and Juan Uribe as bait, guarantees that whichever team might successfully land Tejada will have paid more than they otherwise would have. Hendry is dangling Prior, but it will cost him more. It sounds like even Zambrano won't be enough.

Baltimore is playing hard to get with Tejada. Anyone thinking they'll get him cheap had better think twice now that Contreras and Uribe are in play, too. That's bad news for Cubs fans, but especially bad news for Jim Hendry.

Sucks to be them.
:cool:

Lillian
12-30-2005, 11:03 AM
It seems to be the popular consensus that the Sox have likely offered Contreras and Uribe for Tejada. Speculation is that, while such a deal would be great for us, Baltimore would probably not consider such an offer acceptable. I would like to assert that the Sox would be better off not making that deal, for the following reasons:

1) Tejada is a suspected steroid user. There has been some speculation that he was part of the steroid click in Oakland with Giambi, and then in Baltimore with Palmiero. You have to wonder about a guy 5'9" who suddenly began to put up huge power numbers, with no prior history of being a slugger. Canseco hinted that Tejada has been a user. Although he has not tested positive, that could be explained by a change to HGH, which seems to be the drug of choice for many attempting to avoid being caught. Isn't that the likely explanation for Giambi's sudden resurgence, and "recovery" from his temporary loss of weight and strength? I understand that there is no proof, but I am very suspicious.

2) Tejada has now joined the ranks of other greedy, and ungrateful stars who opt for the biggest dollar contract, without consideration for winning, and then complain about being on a team that is not in contention. If a player is willing to place his new team in the position of having to allocate a significant portion of their total payroll to him, then he shouldn't complain when they are unable to go out and sign more big salaried players.

3) Uribe is 3 years younger than Tejada, and has put up offensive numbers comparable to Tejada's at this stage in his career. A look at the following comparison for the first 2,000+ at bats reveals that Uribe is not that far behind Tejada at this stage in his career, especially when you factor in his two month injury to start the 2003 season:

In his first 2138 at bats Uribe has 113 doubles, 30 triples, 63 homers, 280 Rbi's, and a .262 avg.
Tejada after 2286 at bats had 119 doubles, 11 triples, 95 homers, 367 rbi's and a .256 avg.

I didn't calculate the OBP or SLG for that period of Tejada's stats, but of course his numbers are much better, in part owing to where he has batted in the order. Uribe has batted 8th and 9th a good portion of his short career.
We can also be optimistic about Uribe's future based upon the change in his approach at the plate, late in the year last season. His leg lifting timing device seemed to help a great deal.

3) We already have a very potent offense, with the addition of Thome.

4) Defensively, I think that no one will argue that Tejada is as good as Uribe.

5) And finally, you can never have too much pitching. The Sox never had any starter, except El Duque, spend any time on the DL last year, but that is not a circumstance that I would want to count on. I'd rather see them keep one of the starters in the bullpen, most likely McCarthy, as insurance. Sox management has already suggested that they would prefer to bring him along slowly, by keeping him in the Bullpen.

This team is already a lot better than they were last year, at least on paper. I'm certainly confident of their chances the way they are structured right now. What do you guys think?

Lillian
12-30-2005, 11:06 AM
I guess that I should have posted this as a reply to the new thread on the rumored deal. I was busy writing it, when that new thread was posted.
Sorry.

Hitmen77
12-30-2005, 11:10 AM
Well, that's my point. How much more can they sell to cover another payroll increase if they've already had such a huge bump?

If the Sox are nearing capacity for tickets sold and they go deep into the playoffs in '06, look for a big hike in ticket prices for '07.

..And Konerko's deal is backloaded....
:?: No it isn't. He'll be making 12 million a year for each year of his contract.

Fenway
12-30-2005, 11:16 AM
I can't listen to this Tampa station anymore ( they call themselves the Sports Animal )

They interviewing Chicago's Tom Shaer who says Hendry is under orders not to let Tejada go to the South Side and to do whatever it takes. Says Tribune is desperate for Cubs to win now to stop White Sox gaining market share in Chicago.

ilsox7
12-30-2005, 11:18 AM
O's have no problem keeping payroll higher. They just took ShamME and Raffy's contracts off the books and have (as always) a ton of revenue to play with. They have the closest situation to the flubbies in baseball (Texas draws well regardless of record too). O's can definitely afford Manny and they are also definitely interested in more pitching.

Seems like a tough deal for the Red Sox though. They cannot afford to give up any pitching.

Normally I'd agree with you about the O's being able to take on salary, but I think for 2006 alone, the proposed deal would add upwards of $22MM. That's a lot of payroll even for the O's...and it's debatable how much better they would actually get as a result of the deal.

TheOldRoman
12-30-2005, 11:19 AM
They interviewing Chicago's Tom Shaer who says Hendry is under orders not to let Tejada go to the South Side and to do whatever it takes. Says Tribune is desperate for Cubs to win now to stop White Sox gaining market share in Chicago.
WOW

Frater Perdurabo
12-30-2005, 11:23 AM
Lillian posted several very good reasons why I also would not advocate trading for Tejada.

Uribe's defense helps Sox pitchers, especially ground-ball pitchers like Buehrle and Garland. I'm not sure Tejada's defense provides the same benefit.

I'd rather the Sox get Carl Crawford from Tampa Bay.

TornLabrum
12-30-2005, 11:23 AM
I can't listen to this Tampa station anymore ( they call themselves the Sports Animal )

They interviewing Chicago's Tom Shaer who says Hendry is under orders not to let Tejada go to the South Side and to do whatever it takes. Says Tribune is desperate for Cubs to win now to stop White Sox gaining market share in Chicago.






That should push them into making a really stupid deal, thereby taking themselves out of contention for years to come.

daveeym
12-30-2005, 11:23 AM
WOW Doesn't surprise me in the least. Too bad they'd have to sell the farm and end up in 3rd again next year. :bandance:

TheOldRoman
12-30-2005, 11:28 AM
Doesn't surprise me in the least. Too bad they'd have to sell the farm and end up in 3rd again next year. :bandance:
Dream scenario:

Kenny sneaks into the office of Baltimore's GM, and gives him a judo cop to the throat, knocking him out. He then poses as the Orioles GM while on the phone with Hendry.
:KW
"Cough cough. Sorry Jim, I have a cold. Anyway, the White Sox have offered me Buehrle and Garland. I am about to pull the trade off, but I wanted to let you know first. If you want Tejada, you need to put Lee, Prior and Zambrano on the table. We will talk from there."

voodoochile
12-30-2005, 11:30 AM
That should push them into making a really stupid deal, thereby taking themselves out of contention for years to come.

Pretty much lock in that triple digit anniversary that is rapidly approaching. :D:

Jjav829
12-30-2005, 11:30 AM
Nothing brings out the ridiculous comments like a Miguel Tejada thread.

1) Tejada is a suspected steroid user. There has been some speculation that he was part of the steroid click in Oakland with Giambi, and then in Baltimore with Palmiero. You have to wonder about a guy 5'9" who suddenly began to put up huge power numbers, with no prior history of being a slugger. Canseco hinted that Tejada has been a user. Although he has not tested positive, that could be explained by a change to HGH, which seems to be the drug of choice for many attempting to avoid being caught. Isn't that the likely explanation for Giambi's sudden resurgence, and "recovery" from his temporary loss of weight and strength? I understand that there is no proof, but I am very suspicious.

Huh? How did he suddenly begin to put up huge power numbers? In Tejada's first full season in the majors he hit 21 homers. The next season he hit 30 and since 2001 his home run totals have been: 31, 34, 27, 34, 26. He never made some grand leap from 15 to 40 or something like that. He consistently hits in the high 20s to lower 30s.

Tekijawa
12-30-2005, 11:33 AM
Nothing brings out the ridiculous comments like a Miguel Tejada thread.



Huh? How did he suddenly begin to put up huge power numbers? In Tejada's first full season in the majors he hit 21 homers. The next season he hit 30 and since 2001 his home run totals have been: 31, 34, 27, 34, 26. He never made some grand leap from 15 to 40 or something like that. He consistently hits in the high 20s to lower 30s.

Yeah, but before coming into the league he had 0 major league home runs. How do you explain that leap? :?:

Fenway
12-30-2005, 11:37 AM
Whatever Boston is going to do they want it done no later than January 12 which is the night of the Baseball Writers Dinner which is usually the official kickoff of the 2006 season.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-30-2005, 11:43 AM
I was kind of nervous how the Sox could ever top winning the world championship last October. I mean how much better could it possibly get?

I think KW might have provided the answer this winter. All these moves and signings he has made these past 10 weeks have been a pure delight to watch -- and now he's openly declaring the goal of achieving market dominance in Chicago. MacFail and Hendry must be sweating bullets over this Tejada business.

Just another great day to be a Sox Fan.
:cool:

Baby Fisk
12-30-2005, 11:43 AM
Whatever Boston is going to do they want it done no later than January 12 which is the night of the Baseball Writers Dinner which is usually the official kickoff of the 2006 season.
Why does everything the Red Sox do have to revolve around the media? Imagine if they tried to actually revolve around baseball.

Sorry, that was a lollypop I could naught resist. :redface:

cheeses_h_rice
12-30-2005, 11:49 AM
I was kind of nervous how the Sox could ever top winning the world championship last October. I mean how much better could it possibly get?

I think KW might have provided the answer this winter. All these moves and signings he has made these past 10 weeks have been a pure delight to watch -- and now he's openly declaring the goal of achieving market dominance in Chicago. MacFail and Hendry must be sweating bullets over this Tejada business.

Just another great day to be a Sox Fan.
:cool:
You mean to say that Wrigley might not be "the cool place to be" next year?

I'll have to tell Moronotti.

:moron

"Say, why am I drinking alone at Murphy's Bleachers? Where did all the hotties go?"

Tekijawa
12-30-2005, 11:52 AM
Whatever Boston is going to do they want it done no later than January 12 which is the night of the Baseball Writers Dinner which is usually the official kickoff of the 2006 season.

I'd get it done before the 11th then... That's a Wednesday! Thursdays are of no importance in baseball.

MarySwiss
12-30-2005, 12:06 PM
I can't listen to this Tampa station anymore ( they call themselves the Sports Animal )

They interviewing Chicago's Tom Shaer who says Hendry is under orders not to let Tejada go to the South Side and to do whatever it takes. Says Tribune is desperate for Cubs to win now to stop White Sox gaining market share in Chicago.






Thanks a lot, Fenway! I had managed to make myself forget there was a Tom Shaer and then you had to go reminding me!

Nothing would ever make me believe the Tribsters--the Tribsters!--would give Hendry a blank check. Especially not hearing it from a media guy.

StepsInSC
12-30-2005, 12:10 PM
I don't really care either way, but I had to point some things out.

1) Tejada is a suspected steroid user. There has been some speculation that he was part of the steroid click in Oakland with Giambi, and then in Baltimore with Palmiero. You have to wonder about a guy 5'9" who suddenly began to put up huge power numbers, with no prior history of being a slugger.

Go back and look at Tejada's numbers. Obviously you havn't looked at them if you think he hasn't been a threat to hit homeruns since the first day he entered the league. Most players don't break into the bigs and hit 30 homeruns in their first 3 years, even the great power hitters.


2) Tejada has now joined the ranks of other greedy, and ungrateful stars who opt for the biggest dollar contract, without consideration for winning, and then complain about being on a team that is not in contention.

I'm just tired of seeing statements of this nature. Yeah he probably shouldn't bash his team, but the guy wants to win. If a player signed a big contract, and then was perfectly content that his team sucked consistently, then you would probably be up in arms about the fact that he just wanted the money.


That's all I wanted to point out. I'm happy either way.

Whitesox4ever
12-30-2005, 12:10 PM
A friend send this report to me

White Sox Make Offers For Tejada

A source close to a major sports representation firm has tipped me off to two offers the White Sox currently have on the table for shortstop Miguel Tejada.
Two formal proposals have been given to the Orioles by Sox GM Kenny Williams. Williams set a drop dead date of December 31st given other clubs' outstanding offers for Tejada.
Option 1: Jose Contreras, Juan Uribe, and one minor league prospect for Tejada.
Option 2: Brandon McCarthy, Juan Uribe, 20 year-old southpaw Alex Woodson (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/W/alex-woodson.shtml), and another minor leaguer for Tejada. In this scenario, the White Sox would get cash back from the Orioles in the third and fourth years of Tejada's contract.

tebman
12-30-2005, 12:13 PM
A friend send this report to me

White Sox Make Offers For Tejada

A source close to a major sports representation firm has tipped me off to two offers the White Sox currently have on the table for shortstop Miguel Tejada.
Two formal proposals have been given to the Orioles by Sox GM Kenny Williams. Williams set a drop dead date of December 31st given other clubs' outstanding offers for Tejada.
Option 1: Jose Contreras, Juan Uribe, and one minor league prospect for Tejada.
Option 2: Brandon McCarthy, Juan Uribe, 20 year-old southpaw Alex Woodson (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/W/alex-woodson.shtml), and another minor leaguer for Tejada. In this scenario, the White Sox would get cash back from the Orioles in the third and fourth years of Tejada's contract.
Which pay phone at the airport was your friend at when he heard this?

jehosaphat
12-30-2005, 12:15 PM
I can't listen to this Tampa station anymore ( they call themselves the Sports Animal )

They interviewing Chicago's Tom Shaer who says Hendry is under orders not to let Tejada go to the South Side and to do whatever it takes. Says Tribune is desperate for Cubs to win now to stop White Sox gaining market share in Chicago.






If that's true, that's laughable. Chicago and the surrounding areas support both teams, and have done so for a very long time. This is not a case of the town not being big enough for the two baseball clubs and only one team can be left standing. I would argue that having two teams creates lots of buzz and actually ends of helping both teams - but, I digress. My point is that there are lots and lots of people in Chicago who root for both teams and both teams have a healthy fan base throughout the area. If both teams win, both teams will draw well, do well, make money, etc (granted, the Sox's financial fortunes are probably more tied to providing a quality product- winning team - than the Cubs'). But, White Sox success or failure will have very little, if any, impact on the Cubs. The Cubs should not be worrying about the Sox, but should be worrying about the Cubs. For the Cubs to go after Tejada recklessly just to keep him from playing on the south side is more than incredibly stupid, it's pitiful.

Whitesox4ever
12-30-2005, 12:17 PM
Which pay phone at the airport was your friend at when he heard this?

mlbtraderumors.com

I dont know much about that site. Is it legit

ChiSoxlukes
12-30-2005, 12:19 PM
I don't like giving up McCarthy unless Contreras is signed to a 2 or 3 year deal.

voodoochile
12-30-2005, 12:21 PM
Thanks a lot, Fenway! I had managed to make myself forget there was a Tom Shaer and then you had to go reminding me!

Nothing would ever make me believe the Tribsters--the Tribsters!--would give Hendry a blank check. Especially not hearing it from a media guy.

The check isn't the issue here. It's the deal. The Orioles are holding all the cards and the Sox have made a strong offer with Contreras and Uribe. George is right, this has driven up the price and the Trib has had a very mediocre off season with little headlines while the Sox have made big move after big move to improve the already World Champion team.

Hey flubbie fans this ones for you (with the usual apologies)...

They never loved you, the way that we'd love you.
If they did they wouln't make you cry.
They might have beers a chillin' baby but a-my love (my love, my love)
So win or die try willin'
So kiss them (I wanna see you kiss them, wanna see you kiss them)
Go on and kiss them goodbye
Na na na na, hey hey-hey, goodbye
Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye

Listen to me now
They'll never bring you a trophy or even two
They'll just take your cash and then they'll make you cry
They might have beers a chillin' baby but a-my love (my love, my love)
So win or die try willin'
So kiss them (I wanna see you kiss them. I wanna see you kiss them
Go on and kiss them goodbye
Na-na na-na-na na na na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye
Hey hey-hey, goodbye
Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye
Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye
Na na na na, na na na na, hey hey hey, goodbye


:cool:

tebman
12-30-2005, 12:26 PM
mlbtraderumors.com

I dont know much about that site. Is it legit
Don't know -- I'll defer to wiser observers on the board, but trade rumors sound like vaporware to me when they're that specific.

They are a lot of fun, though. :cool:

Whitesox4ever
12-30-2005, 12:28 PM
If we got Tejada

My lineup would look like this for opening day
Pods LF
Iguchi 2B
Tejada SS?
Konerko1B
Thome DH
Dye RF
AJ C
Crede 3B
Anderson CF
Buehrle SP

tebman
12-30-2005, 12:29 PM
The check isn't the issue here. It's the deal. The Orioles are holding all the cards and the Sox have made a strong offer with Contreras and Uribe. George is right, this has driven up the price and the Trib has had a very mediocre off season with little headlines while the Sox have made big move after big move to improve the already World Champion team.

Hey flubbie fans this ones for you (with the usual apologies)...
<great lyrics follow>

Well done, VC! You'll have to organize a WSI glee club to sing that at Soxfest. :thumbsup:

voodoochile
12-30-2005, 12:30 PM
If we got Tejada

My lineup would look like this for opening day
Pods LF
Iguchi 2B
Tejada SS?
Konerko1B
Thome DH
Dye RF
AJ C
Crede 3B
Anderson CF
Buehrle SP

I'd flip Konerko and Thome but either way... :drool:

ChiSoxLifer
12-30-2005, 12:39 PM
I can't listen to this Tampa station anymore ( they call themselves the Sports Animal )

They interviewing Chicago's Tom Shaer who says Hendry is under orders not to let Tejada go to the South Side and to do whatever it takes. Says Tribune is desperate for Cubs to win now to stop White Sox gaining market share in Chicago.






Just for fun, I would keep raising the stakes for Tejada until the cubs finally throw in Derek Lee. Unless, of course, KW really wants him.

The Dude
12-30-2005, 12:42 PM
I can't listen to this Tampa station anymore ( they call themselves the Sports Animal )

They interviewing Chicago's Tom Shaer who says Hendry is under orders not to let Tejada go to the South Side and to do whatever it takes. Says Tribune is desperate for Cubs to win now to stop White Sox gaining market share in Chicago.






Wow, if thats actually the case...and it just might be....i just love it! The Cubs say they arent pressured but the 100 yr is just right around the corner and they didnt have to worry about the Sox before because we had our own 88 year drought. Things are a changing fellows!:D:

TheOldRoman
12-30-2005, 12:44 PM
Just for fun, I would keep raising the stakes for Tejada until the cubs finally throw in Derek Lee. Unless, of course, KW really wants him.
Exactly. I would love to have Tejada, but I am content with Uribe. I would almost prefer us sticking with Juan but baiting the Cubs into doing something REALLY stupid just to keep him away from us. There is no way they will trade Lee, but Prior is on the table, and who knows how much more.

samram
12-30-2005, 12:54 PM
mlbtraderumors.com

I dont know much about that site. Is it legit
It's legit to the extent that it's an actual website.

Fenway
12-30-2005, 01:01 PM
Why does everything the Red Sox do have to revolve around the media? Imagine if they tried to actually revolve around baseball.

Sorry, that was a lollypop I could naught resist. :redface:

It must be true however, Kevin Millar said so :tongue:

Millar Thinks Talk Shows Influenced Theo's Thinking; Blames WEEI for Breakup of World Series Sox (http://www.ecnnews.com/cgi-bin/05/snstory.pl?-sec-Sports+1k589g0+fn-millarsn.1229-20051229-)

"'Where's the loyalty? Mark Bellhorn hits two of the biggest home runs in franchise history, but, sorry buddy, WEEI (850 AM sports talk radio) is wearing you about striking out, so you've got to go.'

'One thing I will never understand is how in Boston a radio station can control what a team does,' said Millar. 'We had something working, but then there was the constant pressure from talk radio.'"

ChiSoxLifer
12-30-2005, 01:06 PM
The best thing about this whole situation is the White Sox are dealing from strength. KW is using extra bargaining chips. Whereas the addison team is throwing in all their chips to get Tejada. It's all or nothing, success or failure. Need a starting pitcher? Here, take one of ours, we have someone to step in.

Oh boy is this great!

With that said, I don't want them to trade B-Mac.

hsnterprize
12-30-2005, 01:18 PM
If that's true, that's laughable. Chicago and the surrounding areas support both teams, and have done so for a very long time. This is not a case of the town not being big enough for the two baseball clubs and only one team can be left standing. I would argue that having two teams creates lots of buzz and actually ends of helping both teams - but, I digress. My point is that there are lots and lots of people in Chicago who root for both teams and both teams have a healthy fan base throughout the area. If both teams win, both teams will draw well, do well, make money, etc (granted, the Sox's financial fortunes are probably more tied to providing a quality product- winning team - than the Cubs'). But, White Sox success or failure will have very little, if any, impact on the Cubs. The Cubs should not be worrying about the Sox, but should be worrying about the Cubs. For the Cubs to go after Tejada recklessly just to keep him from playing on the south side is more than incredibly stupid, it's pitiful. But there's one thing you're forgetting...

Even though Chicago is a city big enough to support 2 MLB franchises, the popularity of the Cubs nationwide and worldwide is enough to make the non-baseball fan think there's only 1 team in this town...the northsiders. This notion is helping the Tribune company constantly push the Cubs in everyone's faces all over the place, from broadcasting Cub games over WGN Superstation, to showing Cub-related items on everything from Tribune Entertainment produced TV shows Tribune Company-owned newspapers and other media. That "perception" is in danger with the Sox winning the World Series, and the Sox' subsequent moves afterward.

The Tribsters know if the Sox continue to do as well as they are without the Cubs coutnering that success, people are going to quickly tire of the "Wrigley Field Experience" hype that has dominated local sports lore for so long. The "lovable losers" tag has already been taken off, and there's a lot more that could be exposed unless the CUbs do something to show their fans they're interested in winning. All the talk about goat curses, ivy on the wall, a bar scene outside the stadium, and other things associated with the Cubs and Wrigley Field will grow more stale than a fresh bottle of Old Style if the Sox keep winning and taking all the headlines away. The Tribune Company has invested too much money into the Cubs and Wrigley Field...they're demanding a return on their investment, or else, a lot of people connected with them will start looking for unemployment compensation...fast. The last thing the Tribsters want to see is "beautiful" Wrigley Field filled with only 3,000 people like it was back in the 70's and 80's. It wouldn't make their "bread and butter" look good in front of a national and international audience.

vafan
12-30-2005, 01:27 PM
It seems to be the popular consensus that the Sox have likely offered Contreras and Uribe for Tejada. Speculation is that, while such a deal would be great for us, Baltimore would probably not consider such an offer acceptable. I would like to assert that the Sox would be better off not making that deal, for the following reasons:

1) Tejada is a suspected steroid user. There has been some speculation that he was part of the steroid click in Oakland with Giambi, and then in Baltimore with Palmiero. You have to wonder about a guy 5'9" who suddenly began to put up huge power numbers, with no prior history of being a slugger. Canseco hinted that Tejada has been a user. Although he has not tested positive, that could be explained by a change to HGH, which seems to be the drug of choice for many attempting to avoid being caught. Isn't that the likely explanation for Giambi's sudden resurgence, and "recovery" from his temporary loss of weight and strength? I understand that there is no proof, but I am very suspicious.

2) Tejada has now joined the ranks of other greedy, and ungrateful stars who opt for the biggest dollar contract, without consideration for winning, and then complain about being on a team that is not in contention. If a player is willing to place his new team in the position of having to allocate a significant portion of their total payroll to him, then he shouldn't complain when they are unable to go out and sign more big salaried players.

3) Uribe is 3 years younger than Tejada, and has put up offensive numbers comparable to Tejada's at this stage in his career. A look at the following comparison for the first 2,000+ at bats reveals that Uribe is not that far behind Tejada at this stage in his career, especially when you factor in his two month injury to start the 2003 season:

In his first 2138 at bats Uribe has 113 doubles, 30 triples, 63 homers, 280 Rbi's, and a .262 avg.
Tejada after 2286 at bats had 119 doubles, 11 triples, 95 homers, 367 rbi's and a .256 avg.

I didn't calculate the OBP or SLG for that period of Tejada's stats, but of course his numbers are much better, in part owing to where he has batted in the order. Uribe has batted 8th and 9th a good portion of his short career.
We can also be optimistic about Uribe's future based upon the change in his approach at the plate, late in the year last season. His leg lifting timing device seemed to help a great deal.

3) We already have a very potent offense, with the addition of Thome.

4) Defensively, I think that no one will argue that Tejada is as good as Uribe.

5) And finally, you can never have too much pitching. The Sox never had any starter, except El Duque, spend any time on the DL last year, but that is not a circumstance that I would want to count on. I'd rather see them keep one of the starters in the bullpen, most likely McCarthy, as insurance. Sox management has already suggested that they would prefer to bring him along slowly, by keeping him in the Bullpen.

This team is already a lot better than they were last year, at least on paper. I'm certainly confident of their chances the way they are structured right now. What do you guys think?

This is an interesting post. I, too, have some reservations about surrendering Contreras and Uribe in a deal for Tejada, though I have a different take than you do.

1. I would share your concern about steroids. He does have links to Oakland during Giambi's use, and Palmeiro has accused him of being the source of the shot that cost Palmeiro last year.

2. I do not worry about Tejada being "ungrateful." The guy just wants to win. It is not his job as a FA to also be the GM of a team.

3. I don't think Juan Uribe has the potential to be the offensive player Tejada has been for the last 5 years. Tejada is consistently in the top 3-4 SSs in baseball in RC and RC27 numbers, despite his relatively low walk totals. Uribe has cracked 5 runs in RC27 only once, in 2004. (The difference between them is about 30-40 runs/year.) It is possible Juan could explode like he did last September, but I'd rate this chance very low. It is more likely that he'll continue to have intermittent explosive streaks surrounding longer periods of poor hitting.

4. Tejada is no slouch defensively. His range factor at SS is higher, and he turned more DPs (albeit in more games). We'd lose very little with Tejada at SS.

5. This is the point that gives me the biggest pause. Consider that our chief rival in the 2006 playoffs will likely be the Yankees. Even with Tejada, we aren't ever going to outslug the Yankees. Our best weapon will be starting pitching. And of all of our starters, the guy I'd trust the most to shut down the Yanks would be Jose Contreras. And in playoff baseball, a strong starting pitcher is often more valuable than a position player.

So I'm on the fence. Without Jose, I don't think the Sox have a true #1 postseason starter. With Jose at #1, it allows the Sox to get the best of every other pitching matchup of every series because no one has the quality depth we have. But Tejada is a great offensive player who, along with Thome, would probably boost our offense by 80-100 runs next year.

I wouldn't be surprised if KW has made the offer. But this may be a trade that will work out fine for us if it doesn't go through.

ChiSoxLifer
12-30-2005, 01:39 PM
Excellent point. The White Sox are no longer playing just to get into the playoffs. I believe if each player has average production, there's no reason at all they won't win the Central. It's the postseason where the top pitchers really earn their pay. Contreras was unbelievable in the playoffs. Man, I'm flip flopping like a fish on this one. Well, whatever KW does or doen't do, I'm cool with it.

sircaffey1
12-30-2005, 01:44 PM
Another point to think about. We basically cut the Cubs' nads off with a trade for Tejada. Most of the talk for the Cubs has been their pursuit of Tejada and Prior, blah blah...Well there wouldn't be anything more effective then to steal Tejada from them and leave the Cubs with absolutely nothing. A national name to go with our franchise and beating the Cubs like a red-headed stepchild....Priceless.

Bobbo35
12-30-2005, 01:46 PM
I was checking out the Orioles website and found this from the message baord. Take it for what you will.


White Sox Make Offers For Tejada

A source close to a major sports representation firm has tipped me off to two offers the White Sox currently have on the table for shortstop Miguel Tejada.

Two formal proposals have been given to the Orioles by Sox GM Kenny Williams. Williams set a drop dead date of December 31st given other clubs' outstanding offers for Tejada.

Option 1: Jose Contreras, Juan Uribe, and one minor league prospect for Tejada.

Option 2: Brandon McCarthy, Juan Uribe, 20 year-old southpaw Alex Woodson, and another minor leaguer for Tejada. In this scenario, the White Sox would get cash back from the Orioles in the third and fourth years of Tejada's contract.

According to Baseball Prospectus's WARP statistic, which combines offense and defense into a number of wins above a replacement player, Tejada was worth 3.1 more wins than Uribe in 2005. Contreras was valued at 5.9 wins for '05. However, the White Sox can't start both McCarthy and Contreras, so it's really not a loss in pitching value for 2006. Seems to me that the Sox would much prefer Option 1 if the O's will consider it.

U.S. Cellular inflates right-handed hitters' home runs by about 30%. Tejada would stand to tack on about four home runs due to park effects. A loss of both Juan Uribe and Aaron Rowand would weaken one of the White Sox's two major strengths from their Championship season: their defense. Rowand and Uribe were two of baseball's best defenders at their positions in '05, and Brian Anderson and Tejada would definitely be a downgrade. Still, Williams's offseason moves and the proposed Tejada trades certainly strengthen the club overall for '06, at least on paper.

Whitesox4ever
12-30-2005, 01:48 PM
I hope that we get Bobby Abreu over Tejada.

ShoelessJoeS
12-30-2005, 01:48 PM
You'll find this thread in "What's the Score?"

TornLabrum
12-30-2005, 01:54 PM
Thanks a lot, Fenway! I had managed to make myself forget there was a Tom Shaer and then you had to go reminding me!

Nothing would ever make me believe the Tribsters--the Tribsters!--would give Hendry a blank check. Especially not hearing it from a media guy.

http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/district/Bo_of_Ed/images/Tom%20Shaer.jpg

"Hawaiian!"

Bobbo35
12-30-2005, 02:00 PM
You'll find this thread in "What's the Score?"
sorry

Iwritecode
12-30-2005, 02:04 PM
That should push them into making a really stupid deal, thereby taking themselves out of contention for years to come.

So in other words, the next decade will be pretty much like the last decade...

Fredsox
12-30-2005, 02:08 PM
I was checking out the Orioles website and found this from the message baord. Take it for what you will.


White Sox Make Offers For Tejada

A source close to a major sports representation firm has tipped me off to two offers the White Sox currently have on the table for shortstop Miguel Tejada.

Two formal proposals have been given to the Orioles by Sox GM Kenny Williams. Williams set a drop dead date of December 31st given other clubs' outstanding offers for Tejada.

Option 1: Jose Contreras, Juan Uribe, and one minor league prospect for Tejada.

Option 2: Brandon McCarthy, Juan Uribe, 20 year-old southpaw Alex Woodson, and another minor leaguer for Tejada. In this scenario, the White Sox would get cash back from the Orioles in the third and fourth years of Tejada's contract.

According to Baseball Prospectus's WARP statistic, which combines offense and defense into a number of wins above a replacement player, Tejada was worth 3.1 more wins than Uribe in 2005. Contreras was valued at 5.9 wins for '05. However, the White Sox can't start both McCarthy and Contreras, so it's really not a loss in pitching value for 2006. Seems to me that the Sox would much prefer Option 1 if the O's will consider it.

U.S. Cellular inflates right-handed hitters' home runs by about 30%. Tejada would stand to tack on about four home runs due to park effects. A loss of both Juan Uribe and Aaron Rowand would weaken one of the White Sox's two major strengths from their Championship season: their defense. Rowand and Uribe were two of baseball's best defenders at their positions in '05, and Brian Anderson and Tejada would definitely be a downgrade. Still, Williams's offseason moves and the proposed Tejada trades certainly strengthen the club overall for '06, at least on paper.

That's verbatim from www.mlbtraderumors.com/ (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/). Need to take this with a grain of salt that it isn't the same rumour all of ther place.

Palehose13
12-30-2005, 02:09 PM
Kenny's in the cat-bird seat here. He doesn't need Tejada, but he sure would be nice. He has a surplus of starting pitching, but he doesn't have to trade anyone. McCarthy could get his experience in the pen. Kenny's in a great position and with a roundhouse kick he could skyrocket this team to another championship. :cool:

Dan Mega
12-30-2005, 02:09 PM
I
Option 1: Jose Contreras, Juan Uribe, and one minor league prospect for Tejada.

Option 2: Brandon McCarthy, Juan Uribe, 20 year-old southpaw Alex Woodson, and another minor leaguer for Tejada. In this scenario, the White Sox would get cash back from the Orioles in the third and fourth years of Tejada's contract.


Option 1 is plausible, but I bet Kenny wants a prospect in return as well.

Option 2- no way, never, not possible. IMO at least.

I'm willing to bet Tejada is in Baltimore on opening day.

ShoelessJoeS
12-30-2005, 02:12 PM
Option 1 is plausible, but I bet Kenny wants a prospect in return as well.

Option 2- no way, never, not possible. IMO at least.

I'm willing to bet Tejada is in Baltimore on opening day.
I see him in a Sox uni on Opening Day.....but it's the Wrong Sox.

Lillian
12-30-2005, 02:32 PM
In his book, Canseco says Tejada likely got his 2004 contract with Baltimore, a six-year, $72 million package, as a result of "new pumped-up body" that likely came from steroids. However, Canseco said he didn't have first-hand knowledge of Tejada possibly using steroids. Some of you still want to deny that these allegations of Canseco are well founded. I consider him pretty knowledgeable, when it comes to this subject. Hasn't Canseco's credibility been restored after everything that has transpired with Palmiero, despite his vehement denial regarding ever having used steroids?

I am just suspicious of a man of Tejada's stature, who hits for such power, and has been perceived by an authoritative source like Canseco, of using steroids. If you believe that he is clean, that's your prerogative, as we have no proof. I'm just not eager to trade for him.

daveeym
12-30-2005, 02:45 PM
In his book, Canseco says Tejada likely got his 2004 contract with Baltimore, a six-year, $72 million package, as a result of "new pumped-up body" that likely came from steroids. However, Canseco said he didn't have first-hand knowledge of Tejada possibly using steroids. Some of you still want to deny that these allegations of Canseco are well founded. I consider him pretty knowledgeable, when it comes to this subject. Hasn't Canseco's credibility been restored after everything that has transpired with Palmiero, despite his vehement denial regarding ever having used steroids?

I am just suspicious of a man of Tejada's stature, who hits for such power, and has been perceived by an authoritative source like Canseco, of using steroids. If you believe that he is clean, that's your prerogative, as we have no proof. I'm just not eager to trade for him. Perceived is the problem though. He pretty much had first had knowledge on everyone else. Don't be fooled, Canseco is a petty, vindictive, jealous **** up that had first hand knowledge on the others.

ndu3t4
12-30-2005, 03:16 PM
Option 1 is plausible, but I bet Kenny wants a prospect in return as well.

Option 2- no way, never, not possible. IMO at least.

I'm willing to bet Tejada is in Baltimore on opening day.

I agree. Jose only has about five more years, at best while B-Mac has his whole career ahead of him.

Also, someone posted the probable lineup if this trade went through. That reminds me way to much of the 2001-04 lineup where we had 2 speed guys at the top and it got slower from there. I think speed at the bottom is huge.

MarySwiss
12-30-2005, 03:19 PM
http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/district/Bo_of_Ed/images/Tom%20Shaer.jpg

"Hawaiian!"

Now that's just a rotten thing to do, Hal. I just had lunch! :puking:

Fredsox
12-30-2005, 03:27 PM
I agree with the feeling by some on the board that this will amount to no deal at all. The Red Sox, the White Sox, the cubs, and the Mets (some have also speculated the Phillies) have all made serious inquiries if not bona-fide offers for Tejada. I can't believe that their ownership is so paralytic that they can't decide on one over the past 2-3 weeks.

I think this is going down the crapper and Tejada will remain an Oriole, not because the offers weren't fair, but because the Orioles management could not make a decision.

Tragg
12-30-2005, 05:08 PM
Option 2: Brandon McCarthy, Juan Uribe, 20 year-old southpaw Alex Woodson, and another minor leaguer for Tejada. In this scenario, the White Sox would get cash back from the Orioles in the third and fourth years of Tejada's contract.
Please don't trade McCarthy. I mean, my goodness. Yea he's unproven; so is $12 million man Vasquez, truth be told. Hell, trade Vaquez and keep Jose if that would help.

TomBradley72
12-30-2005, 06:49 PM
I like the team as it is...we WILL need 6 starters in 2006...someone is bound to go down...and as far as I know after BMac there's no one else in the system that can really help us. I like Uribe alot....and he's a real bargain over the next few years...which will help us with the rest of the roster.

gr8mexico
12-30-2005, 07:23 PM
I like the team as it is...we WILL need 6 starters in 2006...someone is bound to go down...and as far as I know after BMac there's no one else in the system that can really help us. I like Uribe alot....and he's a real bargain over the next few years...which will help us with the rest of the roster. Now that the Sox won the whole thing I really don't think that Williams has to worry about money that much. The Sox are going to be receiving alot of money next year. When the sale of the Nationals goes thru the Sox will receive about 11mil. Then the money from there MLB website thats an extra 5 mil. Second if the Sox trade Contreras (8mil)and Uribe (3.15Mil) that's a total of 11.15 Mil and Miguel Tejada will make $10Mil that's a savings of 1.15mil. The Sox can look for a pitcher for long relief but I think that Tim Redding can fill that roll.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-30-2005, 07:30 PM
I like the team as it is...we WILL need 6 starters in 2006...someone is bound to go down...and as far as I know after BMac there's no one else in the system that can really help us. I like Uribe alot....and he's a real bargain over the next few years...which will help us with the rest of the roster.

Don't worry. It *is* possible KW is simply bluffing about trading Contreras for Tejada. It simultaneously helps bring down the price Contreras's agent might seek from the Sox, and drives up the price the Orioles might demand for trading Tejada to the Cubs. KW wins regardless.

KW is Abraham Lincoln at Fort Sumter as Hendry is to the Confederates looking to fire on the Union soldiers. "Heads, I win. Tails, you lose."

:cool:

lumpyspun
12-30-2005, 08:22 PM
KW is Abraham Lincoln at Fort Sumter as Hendry is to the Confederates looking to fire on the Union soldiers. "Heads, I win. Tails, you lose."

I nominate this quote for "Analogy of the Year Award", if there is such an award.

Tragg
12-30-2005, 08:27 PM
Don't worry. It *is* possible KW is simply bluffing about trading Contreras for Tejada. It simultaneously helps bring down the price Contreras's agent might seek from the Sox, and drives up the price the Orioles might demand for trading Tejada to the Cubs. KW wins regardless.

KW is Abraham Lincoln at Fort Sumter as Hendry is to the Confederates looking to fire on the Union soldiers. "Heads, I win. Tails, you lose."

:cool:
I hope the effect on the cubs is a tertiary concern. If Baltimore ends up ripping off the cubs, that hurts us on the field more than would the cubs ripping off baltimore (depending on how the schedule sets up). As it is, they offered Prior, and what we've offered is pretty steep as well.
All I ask is to keep McCarthy out of it. I don't see how dumping him helps us to become a factor in baseball for the next 10 years.

beckett21
12-30-2005, 08:35 PM
I hope the effect on the cubs is a tertiary concern. If Baltimore ends up ripping off the cubs, that hurts us on the field more than would the cubs ripping off baltimore (depending on how the schedule sets up). As it is, they offered Prior, and what we've offered is pretty steep as well.
All I ask is to keep McCarthy out of it. I don't see how dumping him helps us to become a factor in baseball for the next 10 years.

While I agree that I would rather not trade McCarthy, trading him for Miguel Tejada hardly qualifies as *dumping* him. :smile:

Daver
12-30-2005, 08:52 PM
While I agree that I would rather not trade McCarthy, trading him for Miguel Tejada hardly qualifies as *dumping* him. :smile:

You're right.

Wasting him would be the better term.

batmanZoSo
12-30-2005, 10:32 PM
While I agree that I would rather not trade McCarthy, trading him for Miguel Tejada hardly qualifies as *dumping* him. :smile:

I really like what we have, but if Tejada came here I wouldn't complain. I'd much rather see Contreras go to Baltimore than McCarthy though, that's for sure.

gr8mexico
12-30-2005, 10:39 PM
Miguel Tejada Trade: Update

Some more quality details on the possible Miguel Tejada trade:
First issue: White Sox payroll. My source is saying that adding Tejada would not be a problem - the team's board of directors are willing to take the payroll up to $105 million. Should the Orioles accept one of their offersos (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2005/12/white_sox_make_.html), they'll still have flexibility for more additions at the July trading deadline as needed.:bandance: :bandance: :bandance: mlbtraderumors.com and on cbssportsline Updated:12/30/2005Several news outlets are reporting that Orioles SS Miguel Tejada has stepped up his demand for a trade and the Newark Star-Ledger says one possibility is a multi-team deal in which Mets pitcher Kris Benson would end up in Baltimore, Tejada would go to Boston and Red Sox OF Manny Ramirez would wind up with the Mets.

Tragg
12-30-2005, 11:06 PM
While I agree that I would rather not trade McCarthy, trading him for Miguel Tejada hardly qualifies as *dumping* him. :smile:
I think he's an extremely valuable player - a live arm, ML tested, guts, and cheap. He's a key player to sustaining a competitive team for the future, for not only his pitching, his low cost giving us leverage to improve other positions. We "Dump" all of that in this Tejada trade, when, really, there are other ways to get Tejada here, if that's what we want to do.
Also, I confess I'm not thrilled with Tejada's public complaining about a situation he chose to put himself in. And we have bullpen issues that need to be addressed. ARe we making this move to help the Sox, or are we trying to thwart the Cubs in the effort to make Chi a Sox town?

beckett21
12-30-2005, 11:27 PM
I think he's an extremely valuable player - a live arm, ML tested, guts, and cheap. He's a key player to sustaining a competitive team for the future, for not only his pitching, his low cost giving us leverage to improve other positions. We "Dump" all of that in this Tejada trade, when, really, there are other ways to get Tejada here, if that's what we want to do.
Also, I confess I'm not thrilled with Tejada's public complaining about a situation he chose to put himself in. And I confess I'm also more confident with McCarthy in the rotation than Vasquez. (not that they're an either or). And I'm leery about being TOO Cub-centric - is this what we want, are do we just want to make sure the Cubs don't improve themselves? The latter approach rarely portends good things for one's self. I'm cleansed of the Cubs after last October, although I wouldn't mind seeing them have a century spot hung on them - but there's no chance of them avoiding that, really, no matter what they do.
I agree that financially for the Sox it is much better to keep McCarthy. I am a Contreras fan but I would trade him over McCarthy in a heartbeat for Tejada. I'm with you 100% in that regard.

I do think you and others underestimate Vazquez, and hopefully that will be proven this upcoming season. McCarthy may ultimately be a better pitcher than Vazquez, but IMO it is a bit presumptious to think that he is already better. It's unfair to McCarthy, in all honesty. He has yet to pitch a full season in the bigs.

I also think that character issues are blown way out of proportion nowadays with the ever-present media crunch. Tejada's character has never been an issue before that I am aware of. The guy plays hard and wants to win. Nothing wrong with that in my book.

nodiggity59
12-31-2005, 08:22 AM
You're right.

Wasting him would be the better term.

Obviously, you hate the idea of gettin Tejada. Would you mind explicitly saying why? I'm genuinely curious.....Also do you think trading Contreras is a better idea?

Hitmen77
12-31-2005, 08:32 AM
From the Cubs newspaper:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-0512310219dec31,1,7405534.story?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed

You gotta love this quote from Paul "I love the Cubs" Sullivan:

The Red Sox reportedly are offering left fielder Manny Ramirez and right-hander Matt Clement for Tejada, who told reporters Thursday he wanted to be "somewhere where they want to win." Presumably, Wrigley Field would be acceptable. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Please explain to me why a Cubs team without Prior or Zambrano would be considered a winner?

Tragg
12-31-2005, 08:39 AM
I do think you and others underestimate Vazquez, and hopefully that will be proven this upcoming season. McCarthy may ultimately be a better pitcher than Vazquez, but IMO it is a bit presumptious to think that he is already better. It's unfair to McCarthy, in all honesty. He has yet to pitch a full season in the bigs.

I also think that character issues are blown way out of proportion nowadays with the ever-present media crunch. Tejada's character has never been an issue before that I am aware of. The guy plays hard and wants to win. Nothing wrong with that in my book.
I hope you're right that I underrate Vasquez. A lot of people like him and like him a lot. My McCarthy preference is simply because I'm so distrustful of Vasquez due to his gopher balls, his performance last year, his AL performance and his post-season performance. He's very durable, and with coaching and focus, he certainly could regain form.


I agree that "Character" can be overblown. This one bugs me - the Orioles are stupid, but they try. They always make a lot of moves, and not to cut payroll. So maybe if he'd ask the Orioles to get some brains instead....

Blob
12-31-2005, 08:59 AM
Updated:12/30/2005Several news outlets are reporting that Orioles SS Miguel Tejada has stepped up his demand for a trade and the Newark Star-Ledger says one possibility is a multi-team deal in which Mets pitcher Kris Benson would end up in Baltimore, Tejada would go to Boston and Red Sox OF Manny Ramirez would wind up with the Mets.

Good keep Miguel off this team.

There has been a lot of talk here about getting Miguel and how a big name is needed on the team. Is it me or did we not win last year with NO BIG NAMES?!?!?

Did everyone forget Juan and Joe on the left side of the infield was an awesome combo?!?!? I think most people also have forgot that Juan made the last two outs of the World Series and they were FANTASTIC plays!!!

Yeah, Miguel has better offensive numbers, but again, didn't we win with pitching and defense?

I do not see the fascination with bringing a "big name" (Big head) to this team. Look at the trouble he is giving the O's! The money would be better spent getting a lefty for the pen or possibly a center fielder.

Chitown Hitmen
12-31-2005, 09:07 AM
Hell, I would give up an okay player in Juan Uribe and a decent pitcher in Jose and more, depending on what we are talking about. Buuut....Theres word Miguel Tejada to Boston for Manny Ramirez, and Matt Clement. I know Miguels most likely not going back to the Orioles, as he said he was upset with them last season.

Whitesox4ever
12-31-2005, 09:11 AM
Phil Rogers said on WSCR that he thinks the Sox will get Tejada by next week

Chitown Hitmen
12-31-2005, 09:16 AM
Phil Rogers said on WSCR that he thinks the Sox will get Tejada by next week

Good, because Miguel will be a BIG upgrade for this team in efense and offense.

gr8mexico
12-31-2005, 09:17 AM
Hell, I would give up an okay player in Juan Uribe and a decent pitcher in Jose and more, depending on what we are talking about. Buuut....Theres word Miguel Tejada to Boston for Manny Ramirez, and Matt Clement. I know Miguels most likely not going back to the Orioles, as he said he was upset with them last season. The more I wait for something to happend the less I want Uribe to leave. Uribe is 3 years younger then Tejada. Uribe just a little better with the golve but that rocket arm is what makes him great. Juan Uribe is only 26 yrs old and next year might be the year that he finally starts producing with the bat. I think the Sox should focus there attention to other things like the bullpen or improving the minor league system for future trades by trading contreras for the best package of prospects.

gr8mexico
12-31-2005, 09:19 AM
Phil Rogers said on WSCR that he thinks the Sox will get Tejada by next week If it does happend it will be on Wed. So everyone go have fun and enjoy your New Year's party and see you back 1st thing Wed

Whitesox4ever
12-31-2005, 09:22 AM
Rogers said one of three pitchers will go either Contreras,Garcia or Vazquez plus Uribe

nodiggity59
12-31-2005, 09:25 AM
Rogers said one of three pitchers will go either Contreras,Garcia or Vazquez plus Uribe

The only way Freddy leaves is if Bedard is included.

Whitesox4ever
12-31-2005, 09:29 AM
The only way Freddy leaves is if Bedard is included.

I would hate to see Freddy go.. He is one of my favorite Sox players..

PaleHoseGeorge
12-31-2005, 09:39 AM
I agree Uribe played far better than I expected him to last season. I think KW could be bluffing about trading Contreras and Uribe just to see whether Contreras's agent will lower his asking price. Both of these guys are good players and would be key contributors on the 2006 Sox. I'm sure KW knows this, too.

However I don't understand why some people are dumping on Tejada. Holy Cow! This guy is a former MVP and perrennial all-star. Pissing on his credentials only makes the pisser look stupid for pissing on his own shoes.

Get a clue. There is a reason Ozzie Guillen had Juan Uribe batting #9 all season. He didn't want to rely on Uribe to deliver anything with the bat. As Tim McCarver might say, "Anything you get from your #9 guy is a bonus." (The man is nothing but predictable with his cliches.)
:wink:

There is one other important point nobody has mentioned: losing Uribe gives Brian Anderson a better chance of being a successful everyday player. With Rowand gone, it now appears this rookie will get the everyday job in CF. The Sox are forced to play him nearly everyday, and it would be really nice to let him bat low in the order to learn the league's pitchers without the added pressure of being counted on to do much offensively. He already has a big defensive responsibility and 2006 promises to be a huge step up for him. I mean he is going to be the everyday centerfielder for the world champions! Give him a break already.

It's a long shot that Anderson can replace Rowand's production across 162 games next season, but it is a lay up that Tejada will lap the numbers Uribe put up.

If the deal is there, take it.

TornLabrum
12-31-2005, 09:47 AM
I agree Uribe played far better than I expected him to last season. I think KW could be bluffing about trading Contreras and Uribe just to see whether Contreras's agent will lower his asking price. Both of these guys are good players and would be key contributors on the 2006 Sox. I'm sure KW knows this, too.

However I don't understand why some people are dumping on Tejada. Holy Cow! This guy is a former MVP and perrennial all-star. Pissing on his credentials only makes the pisser look stupid for pissing on his own shoes.

Get a clue. There is a reason Ozzie Guillen had Juan Uribe batting #9 all season. He didn't want to rely on Uribe to deliver anything with the bat. As Tim McCarver might say, "Anything you get from your #9 guy is a bonus." (The man is nothing but predictable with his cliches.)
:wink:

There is one other important point nobody has mentioned: losing Uribe gives Brian Anderson a better chance of being a successful everyday player. With Rowand gone, it now appears this rookie will get the everyday job in CF. The Sox are forced to play him nearly everyday, and it would be really nice to let him bat low in the order to learn the league's pitchers without the added pressure of being counted on to do much offensively. He already has a big defensive responsibility and 2006 promises to be a huge step up for him. I mean he is going to be the everyday centerfielder for the world champions! Give him a break already.

It's a long shot that Anderson can replace Rowand's production across 162 games next season, but it is a lay up that Tejada will lap the numbers Uribe put up.



Yeah, but then that screws up the article I sent you the other day!

PaleHoseGeorge
12-31-2005, 09:51 AM
Yeah, but then that screws up the article I sent you the other day!

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
:wink:

Chitown Hitmen
12-31-2005, 10:46 AM
The more I wait for something to happend the less I want Uribe to leave. Uribe is 3 years younger then Tejada. Uribe just a little better with the golve but that rocket arm is what makes him great. Juan Uribe is only 26 yrs old and next year might be the year that he finally starts producing with the bat. I think the Sox should focus there attention to other things like the bullpen or improving the minor league system for future trades by trading contreras for the best package of prospects.

He had that year in '04. Maybe not what you are talking about, but I think Uribe had a good '04 year.

StepsInSC
12-31-2005, 11:21 AM
In his book, Canseco says Tejada likely got his 2004 contract with Baltimore, a six-year, $72 million package, as a result of "new pumped-up body" that likely came from steroids. However, Canseco said he didn't have first-hand knowledge of Tejada possibly using steroids. Some of you still want to deny that these allegations of Canseco are well founded. I consider him pretty knowledgeable, when it comes to this subject. Hasn't Canseco's credibility been restored after everything that has transpired with Palmiero, despite his vehement denial regarding ever having used steroids?

I am just suspicious of a man of Tejada's stature, who hits for such power, and has been perceived by an authoritative source like Canseco, of using steroids. If you believe that he is clean, that's your prerogative, as we have no proof. I'm just not eager to trade for him.

Canseco also claimed in his book that he used to run a 3.7 forty. His credibility is far from unscathed.

voodoochile
12-31-2005, 11:27 AM
Good keep Miguel off this team.

There has been a lot of talk here about getting Miguel and how a big name is needed on the team. Is it me or did we not win last year with NO BIG NAMES?!?!?

Did everyone forget Juan and Joe on the left side of the infield was an awesome combo?!?!? I think most people also have forgot that Juan made the last two outs of the World Series and they were FANTASTIC plays!!!

Yeah, Miguel has better offensive numbers, but again, didn't we win with pitching and defense?

I do not see the fascination with bringing a "big name" (Big head) to this team. Look at the trouble he is giving the O's! The money would be better spent getting a lefty for the pen or possibly a center fielder.

No, we won with pitching and timely hitting.

Just because there were no "big names" on the team does not mean you canno win WITH big names on the team.

Tejada won't give up much if anything to Uribe at the SS position defensively and his offensive numbers will make the team MUCH more likely to score runs when they need to.

What extra money? If they trade Contreras and Uribe the net increase is $1M. What are you going to get for that? If you can show me the CF who is worth the value of Uribe and Contreras AND is available in trade, I say, go for it, but they aren't common. Also Anderson should match Rowand's production offensively while (again) not giving up anything much defensively and probably actually improving the CF defense slightly (oh crap - FOC please don't start another argument about how great Rowand's defense is).

Let's turn the Tejada requests a trade thing around. When he signed with the Orioles, they had Raffy and soon acquired ShamME. They also had signed some big name FA pitchers. Yes, the pitchers didn't pan out, but the team looked on paper like a winner and for the first part of the season they were on fire before flaming out under the lack of pitching, ShamME's "injuries" and finally the steroid problems. Now the pitching has been shown for what it is. ShamME is gone and Raffy is too. Why would Tejada believe this is the same team he signed with? Since the O's haven't been major players this off season, why would he believe they still want to win? I don't blame him one bit for wanting out.

If the trade request is the sole reason you believe Tejada is a whiner, then I think you are over-stating things to a high degree.

Make the trade and let's get ready for "That Championship Season II - return of the awesome tickertape parade - now improved with working speakers."

voodoochile
12-31-2005, 11:31 AM
Canseco also claimed in his book that he used to run a 3.7 forty. His credibility is far from unscathed.

*****!

Now that's funny. I was watching the Bears 85 special the other day prior to the Packers game on Xmas. They interviewed Willie Gault (you know world class sprinter Willie Gault?) and Gault claimed his fastest time ever in the 40 was a 4.06 :o:

That's the fastest time I've ever heard quoted by anyone. Deion in his prime ran a 4.1 and Urlacher runs a 4.4 (which is why he is so damned amazing). If Canseco ever cracked 4.4 I'd be blown away.

JermaineDye05
12-31-2005, 11:34 AM
The only way Freddy leaves is if Bedard is included.

did rogers say that or is that your opinion?

Fenway
12-31-2005, 11:37 AM
NY Daily News now joins the blockbuster rumors

Gammons says Manny is going to the Mets and Tejada told Ortiz he is looking forward to playing with him in Boston. Manny has approved a trade to New York, NOT Baltimore

4-way Manny frenzy
The Mets have been engaged in ongoing talks with the Devil Rays about reliever Danys Baez, but, according to multiple baseball sources, those discussions could bloom into a blockbuster four-team trade scenario in which Manny Ramirez winds up at Shea and similarly disgruntled slugger Miguel Tejada lands in Boston.
FULL STORY (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/378998p-321910c.html)

y2j2785
12-31-2005, 01:22 PM
:tomatoaward

Fenway
12-31-2005, 01:32 PM
It is becoming obvious that the Mets are the team that is going to decide how this plays out. If they have decided they want Manny that badly they know what they have to offer Baltimore must be higher than the White Sox or Cubs offer.

Mets are playing with free money since they have the new TV network and no luxury tax to worry about in 2006 ( they could spend $200M and not be taxed due to the way the CBA is set up )

THey want to own the Hispanic market in New York which unlike Chicago cares deeply about baseball. (Chicago there seems to be only Hispanic interest in the Fire)

Honestly I think Angelos is more concerned about stopping the DC Stadium which from all accounts is now in very big trouble.

voodoochile
12-31-2005, 01:36 PM
It is becoming obvious that the Mets are the team that is going to decide how this plays out. If they have decided they want Manny that badly they know what they have to offer Baltimore must be higher than the White Sox or Cubs offer.

Mets are playing with free money since they have the new TV network and no luxury tax to worry about in 2006 ( they could spend $200M and not be taxed due to the way the CBA is set up )

THey want to own the Hispanic market in New York which unlike Chicago cares deeply about baseball. (Chicago there seems to be only Hispanic interest in the Fire)

Honestly I think Angelos is more concerned about stopping the DC Stadium which from all accounts is now in very big trouble.

Um Fenway? Are you nuts? There are tons of Latino baseball fans in Chicago on both sides of town. Have you met Hangar? He talks about this stuff all the time when he rips the team for letting Maggio and Lee leave.

Maybe you missed that whole Ozzie as national hero to Venezuela thing...:rolleyes:

Fenway
12-31-2005, 01:43 PM
Um Fenway? Are you nuts? There are tons of Latino baseball fans in Chicago on both sides of town. Have you met Hangar? He talks about this stuff all the time when he rips the team for letting Maggio and Lee leave.

Maybe you missed that whole Ozzie as national hero to Venezuela thing...:rolleyes:

The Mexican community in Chicago is "lukewarm" to baseball compared to New York ( and even Boston )

In Chicago you don't have home and away coverage on radio in Spanish, you don't see Comcast or WGN providing a seperate SAP.

New York by contrast has a huge Dominican and Puerto Rico population base who were crazy about baseball before they ever came to New York. You see kids playing baseball on the playgrounds in NY.

There is no comparison.

voodoochile
12-31-2005, 01:47 PM
The Mexican community in Chicago is "lukewarm" to baseball compared to New York ( and even Boston )

In Chicago you don't have home and away coverage on radio in Spanish, you don't see Comcast or WGN providing a seperate SAP.

New York by contrast has a huge Dominican and Puerto Rico population base who were crazy about baseball before they ever came to New York. You see kids playing baseball on the playgrounds in NY.

There is no comparison.

Just becaue the Latino community in NY is larger and seems to care more doesn't mean the Chicago Latino community is indifferent.

That was the part of your post I took issue with.

You know the whole

(Chicago there seems to be only Hispanic interest in the Fire)

thing...:rolleyes:

Fenway
12-31-2005, 03:10 PM
Just becaue the Latino community in NY is larger and seems to care more doesn't mean the Chicago Latino community is indifferent.

That was the part of your post I took issue with.

You know the whole



thing...:rolleyes:

quick rebuttal: The Hispanic broadcasters in Chicago have found the Fire to be an easier sell to advertisers.

The Mets are not going for the NL East, they going for the whole thing. They seem to think Manny is the final piece and the only way they can get him is to get Tejada to send to the Red Sox.

Hitmen77
01-01-2006, 03:37 PM
I hope the effect on the cubs is a tertiary concern. If Baltimore ends up ripping off the cubs, that hurts us on the field more than would the cubs ripping off baltimore (depending on how the schedule sets up). As it is, they offered Prior, and what we've offered is pretty steep as well.
All I ask is to keep McCarthy out of it. I don't see how dumping him helps us to become a factor in baseball for the next 10 years.

i believe we play the cubs just as often (6 times) as we do teams from other AL divisions.

gr8mexico
01-01-2006, 05:49 PM
One top official from each the Mets, Red Sox, Orioles and Devil Rays denied that there was anything to the rumored four-way trade between the teams.
The New York Post says the Mets and Red Sox still haven't spoken since the winter meetings. The Mets are talking with the Devil Rays, but they may not be involved in any Miguel Tejada-Manny Ramirez deal. Jan. 1 - 2:38 pm et
Source: New York Post (http://www.nypost.com/sports/mets/60744.htm):bandance: :bandance: :bandance: GO SOX!!!

Fenway
01-01-2006, 10:09 PM
One top official from each the Mets, Red Sox, Orioles and Devil Rays denied that there was anything to the rumored four-way trade between the teams.
The New York Post says the Mets and Red Sox still haven't spoken since the winter meetings. The Mets are talking with the Devil Rays, but they may not be involved in any Miguel Tejada-Manny Ramirez deal. Jan. 1 - 2:38 pm et
Source: New York Post (http://www.nypost.com/sports/mets/60744.htm):bandance: :bandance: :bandance: GO SOX!!!


Both Boston papers and WEEI say the Mets and Red Sox are talking
( in other words something may or may not happen )

IlliniSoxFan
01-01-2006, 11:03 PM
Don't see those sources trumping what the Post said tonight, Fenway, nor do I see them necessarily trumping what our own local columnist has had to say on the matter. My thought is that if Tejada gets out of Baltimore, he'll be wearing a White Sox jersey.

Fenway
01-01-2006, 11:09 PM
Don't see those sources trumping what the Post said tonight, Fenway, nor do I see them necessarily trumping what our own local columnist has had to say on the matter. My thought is that if Tejada gets out of Baltimore, he'll be wearing a White Sox jersey.

personally I want Manny to stay in Boston...he maybe a flake but no disputing the numbers he produces

Flight #24
01-02-2006, 10:55 AM
Anyone else have difficulty believing a site that has the O's trading Tejada and getting back as the most proven chip Kris Benson? And that when they had as an option Prior+Rich Hill?

I don't see him going anywhere. I do think this is an option for KW to "help" the O's out by sending them a proven starter and basically raiding their farm system. But if the edict to take over the city is true, then I can see KW doing just about anything to add Tejada to the Sox.

JohnTucker0814
01-03-2006, 08:00 AM
Other than Uribe being a better all around player for THIS team...

Tejada was accused of taking Steroids was he not? How many players in the game that have been accused of steroids are innocent? Everyone thought it was a joke with Canseco named Rafael Palmeiro in his book... he was right. He named Mark McGwire... he was right. Jason Giambi admitted it, Barry Bonds deny's knowing that he was taking steroids, but there was this cream that he was using...

We do not one of our players to be suspended for 50 games and a reputation like that on our TEAM!

Keep URIBE!!!!

PLEASE!

PLEASE!

DaleJRFan
01-03-2006, 08:07 AM
Tejada was never accused of taking steroids. He gave Palmeiro a B12 shot. I could go to Target and by B12 capsules. It's not a big deal.... ugh.

Tejada is a great player, plain and simple. But would he have made those plays in game 4 of the world series? Diving into the crowd? the play in the 8th to save the run from scoring?? the final out?? Doubt it. Uribe is superior to Tejada in the field and the Sox have PLENTY of offense.

getonbckthr
01-03-2006, 08:53 AM
What's the Score???

doublem23
01-03-2006, 08:55 AM
Tejada wasn't accused of taking steroids, he was names by his wortless, liar douchebag of a teammate Rafeal Palmiero, but his credibility right now is about as valuable as a $3 bill.

Hangar18
01-03-2006, 09:13 AM
I think Kenny will check all of this out before he makes a move on a suspicious player like that. Im impressed that he went thru the trouble to make sure AJ was the guy he wanted, before signing him on. KW also really liked Jermaine Dye as a person as well as a player, and though I didnt like Dye all that much beginning of the year, you can see that Jermaine was a good solid clubhouse presence, as well a solid person.

Fenway
01-03-2006, 09:17 AM
The White Sox are totally off the radar from January 3 reports in Boston, Chicago and Baltimore

"According to sources, the Baltimore Orioles would like to decide the fate of shortstop Miguel Tejada within the next several days. Among the possible trade partners with Baltimore are the Red Sox, who are offering outfielder Manny Ramirez and pitcher Matt Clement in exchange for Tejada and an outfielder, who could be 22-year-old prospect Nick Markakis." -- 1.3.06, Boston Herald (http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=119682)


"The Orioles' losing out on Burnitz would inevitably lead to more speculation about a potential deal with the Boston Red Sox involving left fielder Manny Ramirez. Boston has offered Ramirez and pitcher Matt Clement for disgruntled shortstop Miguel Tejada. The Orioles are still talking to several teams about Tejada to gauge other offers, but the Red Sox are believed to be one of the front runners to land the All-Star shortstop and former Most Valuable Player. The Orioles are considering offers for Tejada and are expected to either accept one or decide to keep him by late this week or early next week." -- 1.3.06, Baltimore Sun (http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.orioles03jan03,1,5798491.story?coll=bal-sports-baseball)

"As for Tejada, the Cubs and Orioles didn't negotiate over the holiday weekend, but that should change in the next couple days. The Cubs would like to know where the Orioles stand so a resolution can be reached one way or another within the next week. There has been speculation in Baltimore that Orioles management plans to take a hard look this week at various trade proposals for their disenchanted superstar and decide once and for all if they want to make a move. The Cubs have made it clear that they wouldn't trade Mark Prior in a one-for-one deal for Tejada, but they would be willing to make Prior part of a package as long as they get a starting pitcher such as Erik Bedard in the swap." -- 1.3.06, Chicago Sun Times (http://www.suntimes.com/output/cubs/cst-spt-cub03.html)

from Orioles fan boards


"The word is the Tejada-Ramirez/Clement trade has been agreed to in principle by the two teams blocked only at this time with last minute complications caused by Manny. Assuming these are ironed out the O's will have to make additional moves."

"The Manny extension demand would require the O's to pay an additional $40million over two more years. It all is negotiations and would Manny agree to one more year and/or would the O's do that? Who knows? The O's won't do the two years." -- 1.1.06, Wild Bill, Orioles Hangout Community (http://www.orioleshangout.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28825)


"The Manny extension demand would require the O's to pay an additional $40million over two more years. It all is negotiations and would Manny agree to one more year and/or would the O's do that? Who knows? The O's won't do the two years." -- 1.1.06, bigbird, Orioles Hangout Community (http://www.orioleshangout.com/forums/showpost.php?p=506298&postcount=86)

Flight #24
01-03-2006, 09:21 AM
IIRC, Canseco never said Miggy took 'roids, just that he had a physique that made him think he might have done it. That's a far cry from the various and sundry names he dropped that he actually accused.

Of course, he said the same about Sham-Me-San (so named becuase he's going to have to go to Japan).

beckett21
01-03-2006, 09:36 AM
I think we need more Tejada threads started! :yup:




:rolleyes:


Sign of the apocalypse: using Jose Canseco as an authority to support an argument. :rolleyes:

nodiggity59
01-03-2006, 09:36 AM
The White Sox are totally off the radar from January 3 reports in Boston, Chicago and Baltimore




Thus, Tejada will be ours on Wednesday.

gr8mexico
01-03-2006, 09:50 AM
Other than Uribe being a better all around player for THIS team...

Tejada was accused of taking Steroids was he not?


I would hope some people could do some research before they post here. BYE BYE:mad:

JohnTucker0814
01-03-2006, 10:05 AM
Hey buddy, how about you calm down...

Was that a question mark after that comment...

If you haven't seen a question mark, it means I was asking for a confirmation. I still remember him being accused. What I was stating is that everyone that has been accused has been guilty...

Maybe you can go BYE BYE!

kittle42
01-03-2006, 10:16 AM
Now that we've almost stooped to name calling...
:threadsucks

gr8mexico
01-03-2006, 10:20 AM
Hey buddy, how about you calm down...

Was that a question mark after that comment...

If you haven't seen a question mark, it means I was asking for a confirmation. I still remember him being accused. What I was stating is that everyone that has been accused has been guilty...

Maybe you can go BYE BYE! Ok who did he get accused by? Everyone is just assuming noone has ever said that he did juice.

Ol' No. 2
01-03-2006, 10:27 AM
I think we need more Tejada threads started! :yup:




:rolleyes:


Sign of the apocalypse: using Jose Canseco as an authority to support an argument. :rolleyes:
Or last spring's congressional hearing, in which Jose Canseco appeared to be the most credible witness there.:o:

beckett21
01-03-2006, 10:29 AM
Or last spring's congressional hearing, in which Jose Canseco appeared to be the most credible witness there.:o:

Scary. Very scary indeed.:(:

Domeshot17
01-03-2006, 10:32 AM
ok children break it up.

(1) I like Uribe, but in no way shape or form has he ever or will ever be better than Tejada as an all around player. He has a better arm, but Tejada also has a rocket, and they both flash the leather. Tejada is a mvp with the stick, and the best ss in baseball. IT is so obvious that it is the only thing the "experts" on baseball tonight got right this year.

(2) Raffy tried to blame Tejada that he juiced raffys b12 shot. O's management then came out following that and informed the public that Tejada had been randomly tested and passed. That laid all rumors to rest.

Finally, You think roids were a big story in 05, wait until the suspensions for anphetamines kicks in in 06. I remember hearing this when it was first announced that speed (greenies) might be in over 60% of baseball. Guys like Rob Macowiak and Ross Gload will become more and more essential now.

gr8mexico
01-03-2006, 10:33 AM
According to the Boston Herald, the Red Sox may be asking for both Miguel Tejada and top prospect Nick Markakis from the Orioles for Manny Ramirez and Matt Clement.
That's not going to fly. The Orioles are believed to be willing to move Luis Matos, but Markakis, like Erik Bedard, should be off-limits in talks. Another potential stumbling block in the rumored Ramirez-Tejada swap is that Ramirez may demand that his options for 2009 and 2010, worth $20 million each, be picked up in a deal. It'd be an incredibly foolish move on his part (his agent's part?) if he so badly wants out of Boston, because no team is taking him on at that price. Jan. 3 - 1:01 am et

Jjav829
01-03-2006, 10:50 AM
All I have to say is that if we do trade for Tejada, the trade thread will probably be the most ridiculous 500 posts in WSI history. It will be worth it, though.

gr8mexico
01-03-2006, 10:53 AM
I think we need to start one @ midnight and get it started because we all know what happens on Wednesdays.

kittle42
01-03-2006, 11:04 AM
All I have to say is that if we do trade for Tejada, the trade thread will probably be the most ridiculous 500 posts in WSI history. It will be worth it, though.

It'll just be more grumbling from the "KW sucks - they shouldn't have changed a thing" camp.

lumpyspun
01-03-2006, 12:19 PM
Tomorrow is Wednesday! If I could buy stock in WSI, I would purchase a bunch of shares today b/c something may happen tomorrow with this trade...

Frater Perdurabo
01-03-2006, 12:32 PM
I think Kenny will check all of this out before he makes a move on a suspicious player like that. Im impressed that he went thru the trouble to make sure AJ was the guy he wanted, before signing him on. KW also really liked Jermaine Dye as a person as well as a player, and though I didnt like Dye all that much beginning of the year, you can see that Jermaine was a good solid clubhouse presence, as well a solid person.

Great Post, Hangar! :thumbsup:

Jjav829
01-03-2006, 12:53 PM
It'll just be more grumbling from the "KW sucks - they shouldn't have changed a thing" camp.

But kittle, if it ain't broke don't fix it!:rolleyes:

DickAllen72
01-03-2006, 03:19 PM
(1) I like Uribe, but in no way shape or form has he ever or will ever be better than Tejada as an all around player. He has a better arm, but Tejada also has a rocket, and they both flash the leather. Tejada is a mvp with the stick, and the best ss in baseball. IT is so obvious that it is the only thing the "experts" on baseball tonight got right this year.

(2) Raffy tried to blame Tejada that he juiced raffys b12 shot. O's management then came out following that and informed the public that Tejada had been randomly tested and passed. That laid all rumors to rest.


Why did Tejada hit only 7 home runs since the AllStar break last season? Was it a fluke or due to a lack of "B12"?

Uribe hit 7 home runs in September alone last year. Uribe is a much better defensive SS, much cheaper, younger and not a whiner. He fired Scott Boras so that he could sign a contract extension with the Sox.

Tejada historically has more power than Uribe, but last year he hit 26 HR's to Uribe's 16. Is 10 more home runs worth giving up Juan's defense plus our number one post season starter? And what if Tejada's dismal 7 home runs in the last four months is not a fluke?

Another thing about Tejada is we already know signing a contract means nothing to him. Who's to say that if he returns to his old form offensively and hits say 35 - 40 HR's he won't start "demanding" more money than Furcal, Konerko, etc.?

Tejada would be a good risk for someone who needs a shortstop, but he's not worth it for the 2006 White Sox. That said, if KW does trade for Tejada, I will assume KW has checked out all these issues and I'll give the best GM in baseball the benefit of the doubt. But I doubt KW will make this trade.

Flight #24
01-03-2006, 03:44 PM
Why did Tejada hit only 7 home runs since the AllStar break last season? Was it a fluke or due to a lack of "B12"?

Uribe hit 7 home runs in September alone last year. Uribe is a much better defensive SS, much cheaper, younger and not a whiner. He fired Scott Boras so that he could sign a contract extension with the Sox.

Tejada historically has more power than Uribe, but last year he hit 26 HR's to Uribe's 16. Is 10 more home runs worth giving up Juan's defense plus our number one post season starter? And what if Tejada's dismal 7 home runs in the last four months is not a fluke?

Another thing about Tejada is we already know signing a contract means nothing to him. Who's to say that if he returns to his old form offensively and hits say 35 - 40 HR's he won't start "demanding" more money than Furcal, Konerko, etc.?

Tejada would be a good risk for someone who needs a shortstop, but he's not worth it for the 2006 White Sox. That said, if KW does trade for Tejada, I will assume KW has checked out all these issues and I'll give the best GM in baseball the benefit of the doubt. But I doubt KW will make this trade.

Way to completely ignore the other, sundry offensive stats where Tejada completely dominates Uribe. I'm a fan of Juan, and wouldn't trade him for many SSs, but Miggy's the #1 SS in the game, and one of the top 5-10 players overall. He's also known as being a pretty good leader and "face" player for a franchise.

Yes, there's a concern about the decline in his #s, but I trust KW to determine if it was motivation or something shadier.

As for his contract, Miguel signed at a time when the O's were adding guys like Palmeiro, Javy Lopez, and looking at some bigname pitchers to try and battle the Yanks/RedSox for the division At this point, they're looking at trading Lopez, have little proven pitching, and are looking at battling the DRays for the basement. Miguel hasn't even really demanded a trade, he's said he wants to win - either here or elsewhere (for the record, he's also explicitly said he's not going to hold out if not traded). And you're equating that with a likelihood of demanding a raise?

Seems much more likely that if the Sox stopped contending he might demand a trade than if he's dominant offensively.

kittle42
01-03-2006, 03:47 PM
Tejada would be a good risk for someone who needs a shortstop, but he's not worth it for the 2006 White Sox. That said, if KW does trade for Tejada, I will assume KW has checked out all these issues and I'll give the best GM in baseball the benefit of the doubt. But I doubt KW will make this trade.

I'll tell ya - if anyone, and I really mean almost anyone - outside of a limited group of Sox fans was asked about Uribe v. Tejada, they'd take Tejada in a New York minute. I find it pretty out of this world that anyone could think Uribe was a better option.

Chicken Dinner
01-03-2006, 03:51 PM
I'll tell ya - if anyone, and I really mean almost anyone - outside of a limited group of Sox fans was asked about Uribe v. Tejada, they'd take Tejada in a New York minute. I find it pretty out of this world that anyone could think Uribe was a better option.

Amen brother.

Ol' No. 2
01-03-2006, 04:16 PM
I'll tell ya - if anyone, and I really mean almost anyone - outside of a limited group of Sox fans was asked about Uribe v. Tejada, they'd take Tejada in a New York minute. I find it pretty out of this world that anyone could think Uribe was a better option.But you can't ignore the dollars. It's not Tejada vs. Uribe. It's Tejada vs. Uribe + $7M to spend elsewhere. Is the upgrade of Uribe vs. Tejada more than they can get by spending that $7M elsewhere? I'm not so sure.

Domeshot17
01-03-2006, 04:29 PM
Originally Posted by kittle42
I'll tell ya - if anyone, and I really mean almost anyone - outside of a limited group of Sox fans was asked about Uribe v. Tejada, they'd take Tejada in a New York minute. I find it pretty out of this world that anyone could think Uribe was a better option.
But you can't ignore the dollars. It's not Tejada vs. Uribe. It's Tejada vs. Uribe + $7M to spend elsewhere. Is the upgrade of Uribe vs. Tejada more than they can get by spending that $7M elsewhere? I'm not so sure.

True but it really doesnt even boil down to that, all things considered. Its tejada - uribe - Contreras this year - either (A) Contreras salary in 2006 or (B) the loss of conteras.

Im in school to try and get my series 7 to become a stock broker, and the best lesson I have gotten was buy low sell high.

If the trade was something like Gload Contreras Uribe for Tejada, in the 3 year span its like trading Loaiza and Miles for Tejada. Kenny is a genious

kittle42
01-03-2006, 04:37 PM
But you can't ignore the dollars. It's not Tejada vs. Uribe. It's Tejada vs. Uribe + $7M to spend elsewhere. Is the upgrade of Uribe vs. Tejada more than they can get by spending that $7M elsewhere? I'm not so sure.

Yeah, but I don't think that some of the posters in this thread were concerned about money when comparing the two - though you've given them an escape hatch to claim they were. :D:

bigfoot
01-03-2006, 04:47 PM
Or last spring's congressional hearing, in which Jose Canseco appeared to be the most credible witness there.:o:

#2, Canseco may have had the most credibility of anybody in that room! :rolleyes:

gr8mexico
01-03-2006, 05:18 PM
If the trade was something like Gload Contreras Uribe for Tejada, in the 3 year span its like trading Loaiza and Miles for Tejada. Kenny is a genious BINGO!!!:bandance:

Tragg
01-03-2006, 06:18 PM
Anyone know a)when Uribe's contract is up and b)when Valido can reasonably be expected to be ML ready?

DickAllen72
01-03-2006, 06:41 PM
I'll tell ya - if anyone, and I really mean almost anyone - outside of a limited group of Sox fans was asked about Uribe v. Tejada, they'd take Tejada in a New York minute. I find it pretty out of this world that anyone could think Uribe was a better option.

It's not Uribe vs. Tejada. It's Uribe + Contreras + a prospect for Tejada.

It's also Tejada's salary - Uribe's salary = resigning Buehrle.

And then there's the question of Tejada's weak performance in the second half of last season + his bashing the organization he recently signed a multi-year contract with to force a trade.

Contreras + Uribe =pitching & defense. Tejada = power.

gr8mexico
01-03-2006, 07:38 PM
And then there's the question of Tejada's weak performance in the second half of last season + his bashing the organization he recently signed a multi-year contract with to force a trade.

Contreras + Uribe =pitching & defense. Tejada = power. Miguel is sick and tired of all the problems in Baltimore first it was Sosa then it was Rafael then it was the front office especially Angelo. Everyone in the league knows that Tejada is a leader and wants to win. His second half problem was because of all the problems the organization was having not because he was juicing. Just look at the guy those he even look like he juicesThe Sox would be one of the best team in the whole Majors and would be in the spot light for years to come and that means alot of money to the Sox organization. Trust me Jerry wont have a problem resigning Mark to an contract extention. http://sportsmed.starwave.com/media/mlb/2005/0501/photo/a_tejada_i.jpghttp://mlb.mlb.com/images/2004/07/13/W6ujMfSt.jpg

Flight #24
01-03-2006, 08:19 PM
It's not Uribe vs. Tejada. It's Uribe + Contreras + a prospect for Tejada.

It's also Tejada's salary - Uribe's salary = resigning Buehrle.

And then there's the question of Tejada's weak performance in the second half of last season + his bashing the organization he recently signed a multi-year contract with to force a trade.

Contreras + Uribe =pitching & defense. Tejada = power.

This is bordering on silly. For the record, it's Contreras + Uribe v. McCarthy + Tejada since Brandon replaces Jose in the rotation. Yes, you have a replacement issue with your 5th reliever (behind Jenks-Politte-Cotts-Hermanson).

As for $$$, it's a slight increase for '06 (Uribe+Contreras=$9.15, Tejada = $12). But they still shed Dye's salary if desired, and I'd bet that adding a top 10 player in all of MLB plus the increased chance of repeating more than adds the revenues to resign Buehrle.

DickAllen72
01-03-2006, 09:20 PM
This is bordering on silly. For the record, it's Contreras + Uribe v. McCarthy + Tejada since Brandon replaces Jose in the rotation. Yes, you have a replacement issue with your 5th reliever (behind Jenks-Politte-Cotts-Hermanson).

As for $$$, it's a slight increase for '06 (Uribe+Contreras=$9.15, Tejada = $12). But they still shed Dye's salary if desired, and I'd bet that adding a top 10 player in all of MLB plus the increased chance of repeating more than adds the revenues to resign Buehrle.

Now that's silly. It's Contreras + Uribe + prospect for Tejada. Either way the Sox already have McCarthy.

Tragg
01-03-2006, 09:41 PM
As for $$$, it's a slight increase for '06 (Uribe+Contreras=$9.15, Tejada = $12). But they still shed Dye's salary if desired, and I'd bet that adding a top 10 player in all of MLB plus the increased chance of repeating more than adds the revenues to resign Buehrle.

Money wise we could shed Dye's salary whether or not we get Tejada; And if getting Tejada forces us to do that, add Owens or someone to the Tejada side of the talent equation and Dye to the Uribe side of the equation. (and on the talent equation, don't forget to subtract the prospect(s) that Kenny will invariably throw in).

Either way, we end up with the excess of Tejada's salary over Uribe's salary (if not Valido's salary); and, I agree, the excess revenue from having Tejada should be considered.

I'm okay either way with this trade as long as McCarthy isn't involved. I can't understand why he's even being considered as trade material, if he is at all. Chicago will be won over a series of years, not 1 or 2.

Fenway
01-03-2006, 10:15 PM
www.bostondirtdogs.com (http://www.bostondirtdogs.com) has the lastest from Gammons

10:54 PM, Jan 3, 2006:

"At the moment, the Red Sox look like a team that could finish third behind the Yankees and Blue Jays in the American League East. The White Sox, Indians, Athletics and Angels appear to have better chances of making the playoffs -- and the Twins, with their pitching potential, could contend if they can find a way to score runs." -- 1.3.06, Peter Gammons ESPN.com Insider (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=2278930)



"'If I were to wager a guess today,' says an Oriole executive, 'it would be that Manny opens the season with the Red Sox and Tejada is with the Orioles. As far as I'm concerned, Tejada is one of the five best players in the game. His contract ($12 million annual average value) was signed in a down market, as opposed to Manny's ($20 million annual average value), which was signed in an inflationary market. If Tejada went on the market this winter, he'd probably get between $14 million and $16 million a year.'" -- 1.3.06, Peter Gammons ESPN.com Insider (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/gammons/story?id=2278930)

Flight #24
01-03-2006, 10:23 PM
Now that's silly. It's Contreras + Uribe + prospect for Tejada. Either way the Sox already have McCarthy.

No, your "equation" was Contreras + Uribe =pitching & defense. Tejada = power.

You don't lose much if any starting pitching going from Contreras to McCarthy. So the pitching "loss" is what you get in the bullpen by moving from Mccarthy to your replacement reliever, who would still be your 5th bullpen guy ala Vizcaino. And while you do lose a bit of D, Tejada's a pretty good defender.

If the power you gain adds more to the team than the D you lose, it's a net plus. Otherwise, you could make the same argument about say trading Vazquez+Dye for Pujols+reliever.

KRS1
01-03-2006, 10:24 PM
According to the Boston Herald, the Red Sox may be asking for both Miguel Tejada and top prospect Nick Markakis from the Orioles for Manny Ramirez and Matt Clement.
That's not going to fly. The Orioles are believed to be willing to move Luis Matos, but Markakis, like Erik Bedard, should be off-limits in talks. Another potential stumbling block in the rumored Ramirez-Tejada swap is that Ramirez may demand that his options for 2009 and 2010, worth $20 million each, be picked up in a deal. It'd be an incredibly foolish move on his part (his agent's part?) if he so badly wants out of Boston, because no team is taking him on at that price. Jan. 3 - 1:01 am et

Take on Manny's terrible contract as well as Clement's overpaid ***, and on top of that give them a SS who happens to be almost 7 years younger then Manny and a top 5 players AND a stud OF? What do these people think that everyone is a Bo Sox fan? I wouldnt give up Markakas at this point for Manny or Clement especially given their deals and head problems.

Fenway
01-03-2006, 10:58 PM
Manny's contract is very interesting

Road to future marked by dollar signs (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2006/01/01/road_to_future_marked_by_dollar_signs)

Come the summer of 2026, Manny Ramírez will be 54 years old and, despite the passage of time, not much will have changed. He will still have a place at the Ritz (his penthouse, like the slugger himself, appears to be next to impossible to move), and he will still be on the Red Sox' payroll.

Take on Manny's terrible contract as well as Clement's overpaid ***, and on top of that give them a SS who happens to be almost 7 years younger then Manny and a top 5 players AND a stud OF? What do these people think that everyone is a Bo Sox fan? I wouldnt give up Markakas at this point for Manny or Clement especially given their deals and head problems.

KRS1
01-03-2006, 11:02 PM
Manny's contract is very interesting

Road to future marked by dollar signs (http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2006/01/01/road_to_future_marked_by_dollar_signs)

Come the summer of 2026, Manny Ramírez will be 54 years old and, despite the passage of time, not much will have changed. He will still have a place at the Ritz (his penthouse, like the slugger himself, appears to be next to impossible to move), and he will still be on the Red Sox' payroll.

None of this changes the fact that he has a horrible contract, yes he is one of if not the greatest hitter of his time, but he woesnt deserve to be making 20mil when he's 40(very few if any would). As for Clement, he just sucks, and parting with Miggs for these two would be, for lack of a better word, stupid.

MRKARNO
01-03-2006, 11:15 PM
Either way the Sox already have McCarthy.

But in one situation, you're actually using him while in the other, you are letting him pitch out of the pen. There is only a slight downgrade in the rotation and the only real question comes, as Flight said, with the 5th bullpen spot, something which no team should be fretting about when you could get a player like MIGUEL TEJADA.

This anti-Tejada talk is beyond silly. Most teams would be dying to get Tejada at any cost. Contreras, Uribe and a mid-level prospect would be more than fair and would help our team tremendously.

Jjav829
01-04-2006, 12:13 AM
Two Orioles sources told the Baltimore Sun that the club will not accept the Red Sox's offer of Manny Ramirez, Matt Clement and cash for Miguel Tejada.
According to the report, the Orioles will continue to talk with Boston, but they want more. They're probably not going to get it. The Sun says the Astros and Cubs are also in the hunt for Tejada. The Astros could offer Brad Lidge, but the Orioles aren't going to have a lot of games to close if they move Tejada without getting a top hitter or starter.

The door is open for the Sox to make a deal.

The Dude
01-04-2006, 12:15 AM
[/color]

The door is open for the Sox to make a deal.

Well we officially are at White Sox Wednesday so stay tuned............:cool:

gr8mexico
01-04-2006, 05:41 AM
I have a trade idea that might work out. A 3 way deal that includes the Astros,Orioles & the White Sox. Brad Lidge and Jose Contreras goes to Baltimore Juan Uribe and Prospects go to the Astros and the Sox get Tejada.

WhiteSoxFan84
01-04-2006, 08:13 AM
According to the Boston Globe and the Baltimore Sun, the O's have rejected the Manny Ramirez & Matt Clement for Miguel Tejada & prospect offer. The O's want more (or they just don't want to trade him?).

Tragg
01-04-2006, 08:23 AM
I have a trade idea that might work out. A 3 way deal that includes the Astros,Orioles & the White Sox. Brad Lidge and Jose Contreras goes to Baltimore Juan Uribe and Prospects go to the Astros and the Sox get Tejada.Astros already have their own version of Juan Uribe. If I were them, I'd be trying like hell to break up the 7-8-9 black hole of Everett-Ausmus-Pitcher. While I would think they're willing to trade Lidge, they'd probably like more than Uribe and a middle prospect for him (which should be all the Sox throw into that deal). IN fact, they'd probably like to have Tejada. (and I am surprised that more NL teams aren't after him). Boy if they could dump Taveras for Conteras, and then wheel Conteras and Lidge around for Tejada....

voodoochile
01-04-2006, 09:13 AM
According to the Boston Globe and the Baltimore Sun, the O's have rejected the Manny Ramirez & Matt Clement for Miguel Tejada & prospect offer. The O's want more (or they just don't want to trade him?).

I imagine they want more pitching or less money.

Ol' No. 2
01-04-2006, 09:14 AM
This is bordering on silly. For the record, it's Contreras + Uribe v. McCarthy + Tejada since Brandon replaces Jose in the rotation. Yes, you have a replacement issue with your 5th reliever (behind Jenks-Politte-Cotts-Hermanson).

As for $$$, it's a slight increase for '06 (Uribe+Contreras=$9.15, Tejada = $12). But they still shed Dye's salary if desired, and I'd bet that adding a top 10 player in all of MLB plus the increased chance of repeating more than adds the revenues to resign Buehrle.Essentially, you're paying for most of the salary difference between Tejada and Uribe by subtracting Contreras (or Vazquez). But the fairest comparison case involves trading a pitcher for someone else, so that's a wash. It reduces to Tejada vs. Uribe + $7M worth of other players. Naturally, whether this is a good deal or not depends on who those $7M of other players are. It may be that there's no one they could get with that money that would make a bigger impact, but I'm not so sure that's the case.

Whitesox4ever
01-04-2006, 09:20 AM
Kenny(Pittsburgh) Hi Paul! I'm a huge Phillies fan is their any rumors out there about us getting a starting pitcher.

Paul White- I have heard that the Phillies might be close to making another trade with Chicago. A source close to the situation has the Sox sending Contreras and several top prospects for Abreu and Madson.

Also this from metblog.com

The Cubs and White Sox are still talking with Baltimore about Tejada, with the Sox dangling RHP Jose Contreras…
The Astros and Phillies continue to talk about OF Bobby Abreu, with the Phillies seeking a premier pitcher. The Phillies hope to replace whomever they trade to get Abreu by acquiring Contreras from the White Sox, assuming he isn’t dealt for Tejada first…

voodoochile
01-04-2006, 09:23 AM
Essentially, you're paying for most of the salary difference between Tejada and Uribe by subtracting Contreras (or Vazquez). But the fairest comparison case involves trading a pitcher for someone else, so that's a wash. It reduces to Tejada vs. Uribe + $7M worth of other players. Naturally, whether this is a good deal or not depends on who those $7M of other players are. It may be that there's no one they could get with that money that would make a bigger impact, but I'm not so sure that's the case.

Yes and some of that is the question of what happens after next year? If they don't feel they will hold on to Contreras long term, they will want to get something for him. If this is the best they can do then they take it.

It pretty much locks in the top 5 hitters in the lineup through 2007 (providing they actually sign Pods). In fact of the 9 projected bats next year all but 2 will be locked in that long and one of those was not expected to be here past next season anyway (Dye).

Essentially they would be guaranteeing two more cracks at the big prize by making this trade - at least on paper.

samram
01-04-2006, 09:29 AM
So what happened here is the metblog guy, who doesn't know who plays on which team, wrote something with the word "trade" in it. Paul White googled that word, figured out who plays where, and then told this poor Phillies' fan that this was a possible trade.

jerrykrause4pres
01-04-2006, 09:31 AM
JC and several top prospects??? who else is left? someone tell me more about madson though please...

Whitesox4ever
01-04-2006, 09:33 AM
If the sox can get Abreu and Madson that would be huge...

I have always like Madson he would make our bullpen alot stronger..

If the sox did get Abreu would he play left or would it be Dye.

Tekijawa
01-04-2006, 09:50 AM
I love Wednesdays....

Just do it so we don't have anyone to trade and I can quit looking in what's the score all day at work!

kittle42
01-04-2006, 09:57 AM
Yes and some of that is the question of what happens after next year? If they don't feel they will hold on to Contreras long term, they will want to get something for him. If this is the best they can do then they take it.

It pretty much locks in the top 5 hitters in the lineup through 2007 (providing they actually sign Pods). In fact of the 9 projected bats next year all but 2 will be locked in that long and one of those was not expected to be here past next season anyway (Dye).

Essentially they would be guaranteeing two more cracks at the big prize by making this trade - at least on paper.

But Tejada would have never made that diving catch in Game 4.

CPditka
01-04-2006, 10:02 AM
Its Wed. I need something to happen so I can get back to work.


Come on Kenny!

White Sox Randy
01-04-2006, 10:08 AM
Yes, this is definitely about to happen. I've heard it from "several sources" too.

Since the Sox have almost no major prospects left, the deal is Abreu, Madsen and Rollins for Contreras, Uribe, the Charlotte Knights franchise and the Birmingham Barons.

Press conference at noon today to announce the completion of the deal.

HebrewHammer
01-04-2006, 10:12 AM
Press conference at noon today to announce the completion of the deal.

It is Wednesday....

Tekijawa
01-04-2006, 10:17 AM
Since the Sox have almost no major prospects left, the deal is Abreu,

Randy get back on your teal meds!

kittle42
01-04-2006, 10:18 AM
Yes, this is definitely about to happen. I've heard it from "several sources" too.

Since the Sox have almost no major prospects left, the deal is Abreu, Madsen and Rollins for Contreras, Uribe, the Charlotte Knights franchise and the Birmingham Barons.

Press conference at noon today to announce the completion of the deal.

This is POTW material.

PushnThaEscalade
01-04-2006, 10:47 AM
I dont expect anything this wednesday, the last thing that needs to be done is a trade just to make one, but Kenny usually never does this. In Kenny I Trust!

Fenway
01-04-2006, 10:54 AM
I imagine they want more pitching or less money.

The latest "rumor" from Gotham Baseball

http://www.gothambaseball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2002

and how bad is it in Boston? This sums it up nicely

http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Headline_Archives/2006/01/whos_on_first.html

Larry: I say Who's on first, What's in center, I Don't Know's at short.
Francona: Are you the president and CEO?
Larry: Yes.
Francona: You gonna be the GM too?
Larry: Yes.
Francona: And you don't know the fellows' names?
Larry: Well I should.
Francona: Well then who's on first?
Larry: Yes.
Francona: I mean the fellow's name.
Larry: Who.


http://bostondirtdogs.boston.com/Headline_Archives/BDD_WoF_LL_TF.jpg

getonbckthr
01-04-2006, 11:17 AM
I dont expect anything this wednesday, the last thing that needs to be done is a trade just to make one, but Kenny usually never does this. In Kenny I Trust!
You know with Kenny's I only care about the Sox approach he would love to do something to make news that would rival USC -Texas.

Tekijawa
01-04-2006, 11:22 AM
You know with Kenny's I only care about the Sox approach he would love to do something to make news that would rival USC -Texas.

This just in Kenny confirmed that God is a Season ticket holder in Section 554 (easy commute) and will be appearing at soxfest, he also has discove rd the cure for Aids and ended world Hunger, he will also be singing at the Half time Show tonight.

getonbckthr
01-04-2006, 11:26 AM
he will also be singing at the Half time Show tonight.
Would it be titled "Kenny Williams on Barry White?"

Palehose13
01-04-2006, 11:48 AM
Would it be titled "Kenny Williams on Barry White?"

:o: That is not something that I wanted to picture.

getonbckthr
01-04-2006, 12:01 PM
:o: That is not something that I wanted to picture.
What you don't think Kenny can pull it off? His singing abilities are surely under the radar!

buehrle4cy05
01-04-2006, 12:02 PM
:hawk
"Where would he play????"

This would create a horrific shift in the outfield that would kill the defense. It would mean that Pods would go to center, and then either Dye or Abreu to left. Left and right are not the same position. I'm all for having Abreu's production in the lineup, but you have to consider the hit our defense would take.

getonbckthr
01-04-2006, 12:05 PM
:hawk
"Where would he play????"

This would create a horrific shift in the outfield that would kill the defense. It would mean that Pods would go to center, and then either Dye or Abreu to left. Left and right are not the same position. I'm all for having Abreu's production in the lineup, but you have to consider the hit our defense would take.
Absolutely adding gold glovers to your defense is a horrible idea!:?:

IlliniSoxFan
01-04-2006, 12:08 PM
Absolutely adding gold glovers to your defense is a horrible idea!:?:

Notwithstanding the potential drop in arm strength in center, how was Pods' defense as a center fielder in Milwaukee? Also, has Abreu played any left or center?

White Sox Randy
01-04-2006, 12:12 PM
This trade is not happening anyway. Not only has it not been reported anywhere but Abreu's contract is huge. The Sox are not going to continue to increase their payroll to well above $100 mil.

And, he is signed for 3 more years I believe.

ilsox7
01-04-2006, 12:13 PM
This trade is not happening anyway. Not only has it not been reported anywhere but Abreu's contract is huge. The Sox are not going to continue to increase their payroll to well above $100 mil.

And, he is signed for 3 more years I believe.

Not sure how much this trade would add to payroll and I also do not think it happens, but there have been a few reports I read that said the Sox are willing to increase payroll up to $106MM.

Madbilly
01-04-2006, 12:16 PM
Personally, if this trade was remotely true, I would rather see a package built around Jason Micheals then Abreu. While Abreu is a good player, we don't need him he can't play center and we don't want Pods playing center. Micheals is younger and cheaper. He could start in center, and let BA be the fourth outfielder. Then next year BA can shift to right field for Dye. Plus he would probably be cheaper to get then Abreu, He wouldn't cost more then Jose and maybe middle level prospect and the Phillies are trying to move him because of Rowand.

chaotic8512
01-04-2006, 12:19 PM
Also, has Abreu played any left or center?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=3537&context=fielding

He played 18 games in CF in 2002 (Just look at that sparkling 1.000 FPCT! He's our man!), but before then, he played a combined 17 in CF and LF when he was in Houston (1996-97).

kittle42
01-04-2006, 12:20 PM
This trade is not happening anyway. Not only has it not been reported anywhere

I hear it has been reported by "several sources," though!

RoobarbPie
01-04-2006, 12:24 PM
Personally, if this trade was remotely true, I would rather see a package built around Jason Micheals then Abreu. While Abreu is a good player, we don't need him he can't play center and we don't want Pods playing center. Micheals is younger and cheaper. He could start in center, and let BA be the fourth outfielder. Then next year BA can shift to right field for Dye. Plus he would probably be cheaper to get then Abreu, He wouldn't cost more then Jose and maybe middle level prospect and the Phillies are trying to move him because of Rowand.

Didn't Micheals get arrested in the past month for a drug or alcohol incident? I know the Yankees (before Damon) were interested in trading for him and then something happened with him that made everyone interested in him back away. I'm not sure if it is something serious enough that would make you not want him......

Either way I don't see a trade with the Phillies happening - but if we could swap Contreras/Dye/prospect for Abreu/Madson I'd be all for that upgrade in RF.

The Dude
01-04-2006, 12:27 PM
:hawk
"Where would he play????"

This would create a horrific shift in the outfield that would kill the defense. It would mean that Pods would go to center, and then either Dye or Abreu to left. Left and right are not the same position. I'm all for having Abreu's production in the lineup, but you have to consider the hit our defense would take.

Quiet down there Hawk and go take your inning break!:redneck

Tekijawa
01-04-2006, 12:35 PM
:DJ

"If they make this trade I'll eat this piece of paper"

White Sox Randy
01-04-2006, 12:37 PM
I hear it has been reported by "several sources," though!


wait...reaching into my pocket....I've got a source right here...oh, no that's my..

Madbilly
01-04-2006, 12:47 PM
Didn't Micheals get arrested in the past month for a drug or alcohol incident? I know the Yankees (before Damon) were interested in trading for him and then something happened with him that made everyone interested in him back away. I'm not sure if it is something serious enough that would make you not want him......

Either way I don't see a trade with the Phillies happening - but if we could swap Contreras/Dye/prospect for Abreu/Madson I'd be all for that upgrade in RF.

You're right he did get arrested for assulting a police officer, and was put into some kind of program first-time offenders

Whitesox4ever
01-04-2006, 01:07 PM
from Mlbtraderumors.com


A rock-solid source of mine close to the White Sox tells me that the team is "lying in the weeds" and allowing the Mets, Devil Rays, Orioles, and Red Sox to beat each other up with this whole Manny/Tejada 4-way thing. The White Sox hope that the 4-way deal falls apart because it's too complicated and too expensive. Presently, it seems that their wish will be fulfilled.
The Orioles want the Tejada deal done soon, and approached the White Sox yesterday with a proposal. The Orioles asked for Jose Contreras (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/jose-contreras.shtml), Juan Uribe (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/U/juan-uribe.shtml), Ryan Sweeney (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/ryan-sweeney.shtml), and a top pitching prospect. That unknown prospect may be a sticking point, but it can probably be worked out. Alex Woodson (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/W/alex-woodson.shtml) has been previously mentioned in discussions between the two clubs. It would be a daring move by Kenny Williams to subtract Uribe and Aaron Rowand (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/R/aaron-rowand.shtml) after winning a World Series with defense as the team's strength.
My source tells me to look for an announcement by Friday about Tejada, no matter where he ends up. The White Sox have their own motivation to wrap things up before the weekend: they'd like to have an announcement that does not conflict with a Bears playoff weekend or the Cubs Convention.

dlee120
01-04-2006, 01:08 PM
according to mlbtraderumors.com, the sox are laying in the weeds. as previously posted somewhere, which was info from the site i just provided, the white sox submitted 2 trade proposals to Baltimore. The Orioles responded with a counter: Contreras, Uribe, Sweeney and a top pitching prospect, for Tejada. Alex Woodson is the possible prospect. take that FWIW....whats the score

getonbckthr
01-04-2006, 01:15 PM
from Mlbtraderumors.com


A rock-solid source of mine close to the White Sox tells me that the team is "lying in the weeds" and allowing the Mets, Devil Rays, Orioles, and Red Sox to beat each other up with this whole Manny/Tejada 4-way thing. The White Sox hope that the 4-way deal falls apart because it's too complicated and too expensive. Presently, it seems that their wish will be fulfilled.
The Orioles want the Tejada deal done soon, and approached the White Sox yesterday with a proposal. The Orioles asked for Jose Contreras (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/jose-contreras.shtml), Juan Uribe (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/U/juan-uribe.shtml), Ryan Sweeney (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/ryan-sweeney.shtml), and a top pitching prospect. That unknown prospect may be a sticking point, but it can probably be worked out. Alex Woodson (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/W/alex-woodson.shtml) has been previously mentioned in discussions between the two clubs. It would be a daring move by Kenny Williams to subtract Uribe and Aaron Rowand (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/R/aaron-rowand.shtml) after winning a World Series with defense as the team's strength.
My source tells me to look for an announcement by Friday about Tejada, no matter where he ends up. The White Sox have their own motivation to wrap things up before the weekend: they'd like to have an announcement that does not conflict with a Bears playoff weekend or the Cubs Convention.
Giving up Sweeney after giving up Rowand and Young maybe too much. I know on WSI I have been very out-spoken about prospects however this a prospect deal I wouldn't do. I would rather give up Borchard and an extra mid-level prospect instead of Sweeney.

Ron Karkovice
01-04-2006, 01:19 PM
:(: I guess I was too naieve to think that we would only have to give up a starting pitcher and uribe for tejada...

Unregistered
01-04-2006, 01:21 PM
The Orioles asked for Jose Contreras (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/jose-contreras.shtml), Juan Uribe (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/U/juan-uribe.shtml), Ryan Sweeney (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/ryan-sweeney.shtml), and a top pitching prospect...Oh, is that all? :puking:

SoCalWhiteSoxFan
01-04-2006, 01:28 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/01/white_sox_invol.html (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/01/white_sox_invol.html)

From the MLBTradeRumors Site:

"A rock-solid source of mine close to the White Sox tells me that the team is "lying in the weeds" and allowing the Mets, Devil Rays, Orioles, and Red Sox to beat each other up with this whole Manny/Tejada 4-way thing. The White Sox hope that the 4-way deal falls apart because it's too complicated and too expensive. Presently, it seems that their wish will be fulfilled.
The Orioles want the Tejada deal done soon, and approached the White Sox yesterday with a proposal. The Orioles asked for Jose Contreras (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/jose-contreras.shtml), Juan Uribe (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/U/juan-uribe.shtml), Ryan Sweeney (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/ryan-sweeney.shtml), and a top pitching prospect. That unknown prospect may be a sticking point, but it can probably be worked out. Alex Woodson (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/W/alex-woodson.shtml) has been previously mentioned in discussions between the two clubs. It would be a daring move by Kenny Williams to subtract Uribe and Aaron Rowand (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/R/aaron-rowand.shtml) after winning a World Series with defense as the team's strength.

My source tells me to look for an announcement by Friday about Tejada, no matter where he ends up. The White Sox have their own motivation to wrap things up before the weekend: they'd like to have an announcement that does not conflict with a Bears playoff weekend or the Cubs Convention."

KRS1
01-04-2006, 01:32 PM
Yeah I saw the mlbtraderumor thing too, and have to say it is unlikely Sweeney goes as part of this or any deal. Despite not hitting for power, he's only 20 playing against guys with experience on how to attack young hitters in that Southern League. He has to be on KW untouchables list, especially after dealing Young. Losing two important companants is enough let alone our future RF, AND another pitcher. I expect KW to stand pat with his offer of Count and Juan with a low level pitcher.

crazyozzie02
01-04-2006, 01:34 PM
sounds like good old fashioned crap to me

bayzbol44
01-04-2006, 01:37 PM
I no beleeb it.

Soxzilla
01-04-2006, 01:44 PM
No thanks.

daveeym
01-04-2006, 01:46 PM
Giving up Sweeney after giving up Rowand and Young maybe too much. I know on WSI I have been very out-spoken about prospects however this a prospect deal I wouldn't do. I would rather give up Borchard and an extra mid-level prospect instead of Sweeney. You have to look at it though as Conteras being a 1 year rental. Without an extension given prior to signing I'd want that much if I was the Orioles.

Baby Fisk
01-04-2006, 01:48 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/01/white_sox_invol.html (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/01/white_sox_invol.html)

The White Sox have their own motivation to wrap things up before the weekend: they'd like to have an announcement that does not conflict with a Bears playoff weekend or the Cubs Convention."
If there was any doubt about the credibility of this information, read the last sentence. :rolleyes:


:KW
"I don't work around other schedules. Other schedules orbit around me."

The Dude
01-04-2006, 01:51 PM
**** it, i'd do this trade..i'd much rather keep Owens instead of Sweeney.

KRS1
01-04-2006, 02:00 PM
**** it, i'd do this trade..i'd much rather keep Owens instead of Sweeney.

Sweeney=20 YO stud with an unbelievable swing and strike zone concept, and power potential despite his first two seasons(one with a bad wrist).

Owens=23 YO slap hitter who has no power potential and has yet to learn the art of stealing though he is a burner.

gr8mexico
01-04-2006, 02:28 PM
Knowing Kenny he would do the trade if the Birds added another pitcher for the bullpen. But I still hope that the trade goes thru before the scrubs convention LOL LOL LOL:bandance: :bandance: :bandance:

buehrle4cy05
01-04-2006, 02:39 PM
Absolutely adding gold glovers to your defense is a horrible idea!:?:

Just because you have a gold glove at one position doesn't mean you will have one at another. If Abreu had to switch from right to left field, it's a whole different ballgame. Plus, it's unlikely that Abreu would want to move to left. And Kenny is not going to push JD out of right field, period.

Maybe we can move Dye to first, put Konerko back at third, and bench Crede.

SouthSide_HitMen
01-04-2006, 02:43 PM
This just in Kenny confirmed that God is a Season ticket holder in Section 554 (easy commute) and will be appearing at soxfest, he also has discove rd the cure for Aids and ended world Hunger, he will also be singing at the Half time Show tonight.

You would think God would have jumped on the bandwagon well before being left with Section 554 season tickets.

nodiggity59
01-04-2006, 02:52 PM
Sweeney=20 YO stud with an unbelievable swing and strike zone concept, and power potential despite his first two seasons(one with a bad wrist).

Owens=23 YO slap hitter who has no power potential and has yet to learn the art of stealing though he is a burner.
Sweeney and Owens = no major league experience. Building from within is one thing. Stupidly holding on to unproven players when an MVP quality guy in his prime is available is a horse of a different color.

If that's what it takes, get'er done Kenny. The only thing I would add is that I wouldn't be surprised if KW wants a BP guy in return for that 4 man package.

KRS1
01-04-2006, 03:10 PM
Sweeney and Owens = no major league experience. Building from within is one thing. Stupidly holding on to unproven players when an MVP quality guy in his prime is available is a horse of a different color.

If that's what it takes, get'er done Kenny. The only thing I would add is that I wouldn't be surprised if KW wants a BP guy in return for that 4 man package.

Sorry if it's just me, but this trade seems to making less and less sense by the second. The fact that we would upgrade our offense is nice, but for a #1 type pitcher, and quality young SS, and our current best prospect? So we weaken ourselves in three majors areas for an upgrade in one.

nodiggity59
01-04-2006, 03:17 PM
Sorry if it's just me, but this trade seems to making less and less sense by the second. The fact that we would upgrade our offense is nice, but for a #1 type pitcher, and quality young SS, and our current best prospect? So we weaken ourselves in three majors areas for an upgrade in one.
Let's flash forward 10 months to next November:

1. Jose Contreras, who had been with the White Sox, signed a 4 year, 48million dollar contract with the LA Dodgers.

2. Ryan Sweeney, completing his 3rd season in the minors, hit .297 with four home runs and 65RBIs.

Like Tejada now?

KRS1
01-04-2006, 03:21 PM
Let's flash forward 10 months to next November:

1. Jose Contreras, who had been with the White Sox, signed a 4 year, 48million dollar contract with the LA Dodgers.

2. Ryan Sweeney, completing his 3rd season in the minors, hit .297 with four home runs and 65RBIs.

Like Tejada now?

Hahahahah, God I love these crystal ball posts.

Here's my try, and I like you picked up my crystal ball from the Alsip Swap Meet.

10 months from now
1. JC helped us get our 2nd WS by being a complete horse all year on the mound, and decides to stay with us for 10mil per.
2. Ryan Sweeney finally shows the power we all knew he had with his incedibly sweet swing, knocking out 20 and hitting .320 with 120 rbi's.

See we can both make predictions, but mine come from Ms. Cleo.

Tekijawa
01-04-2006, 03:23 PM
You would think God would have jumped on the bandwagon well before being left with Section 554 season tickets.
He did, it's just an easier commute for him all the way up there!

ChiSoxLifer
01-04-2006, 03:24 PM
That's great. According to the reliable sources, the White Sox get Abreu and Tejada, but only have to give up Contreras, Uribe, Sweeney, and a prospect. If Kenny can pull this off while staying under budget, Reinsdorf should have his children.

TheOldRoman
01-04-2006, 03:28 PM
:hawk
*clears throat*

KRS1
01-04-2006, 03:28 PM
911 whats your emergency?

Yes can you link me over to the TEAL POLICE!!!

DaleJRFan
01-04-2006, 03:37 PM
That's great. According to the reliable sources, the White Sox get Abreu and Tejada, but only have to give up Contreras, Uribe, Sweeney, and a prospect. If Kenny can pull this off while staying under budget, Reinsdorf should have his children.

UGH.

Ok, first off..

:tealtutor: :tealpolice:

Secondly, both rumors revolve around the Sox dealing a Contreras-centered package in return for Abreu/Tejada and not both.

DaleJRFan
01-04-2006, 03:38 PM
He did, it's just an easier commute for him all the way up there!

I thought God was in the Sox GM's office???

Tekijawa
01-04-2006, 03:40 PM
I thought God was in the Sox GM's office???

Only on Wednesdays... but the 6 other days of the week he's always upstairs!

soxfan1983
01-04-2006, 03:48 PM
Hey everyone -
I dont know if anyone posted about this yet, but i thought you guys would like to read this: www.mlbtraderumors.com (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com)

"Remember when I decided to start calling Kenny Williams "spunky" based on his Javier Vazquez and Jim Thome trades? I'm starting to think I should stick with "bold," as cliche as it may be.

As I mentioned earlier on this site, the White Sox submitted two trade proposals for Miguel Tejada with a deadline of December 31st. Now the White Sox have re-entered the Tejada fray.

A rock-solid source of mine close to the White Sox tells me that the team is "lying in the weeds" and allowing the Mets, Devil Rays, Orioles, and Red Sox to beat each other up with this whole Manny/Tejada 4-way thing. The White Sox hope that the 4-way deal falls apart because it's too complicated and too expensive. Presently, it seems that their wish will be fulfilled.

The Orioles want the Tejada deal done soon, and approached the White Sox yesterday with a proposal. The Orioles asked for Jose Contreras, Juan Uribe, Ryan Sweeney, and a top pitching prospect. That unknown prospect may be a sticking point, but it can probably be worked out. Alex Woodson has been previously mentioned in discussions between the two clubs. It would be a daring move by Kenny Williams to subtract Uribe and Aaron Rowand after winning a World Series with defense as the team's strength.

My source tells me to look for an announcement by Friday about Tejada, no matter where he ends up. The White Sox have their own motivation to wrap things up before the weekend: they'd like to have an announcement that does not conflict with a Bears playoff weekend or the Cubs Convention."

I DEFINITELY WOULDN'T BE OPPOSED TO THIS TRADE OFFER FROM THE ORIOLES. :bandance:

Tragg
01-04-2006, 03:49 PM
The Orioles want the Tejada deal done soon, and approached the White Sox yesterday with a proposal. The Orioles asked for Jose Contreras (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/C/jose-contreras.shtml), Juan Uribe (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/U/juan-uribe.shtml), Ryan Sweeney (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/ryan-sweeney.shtml), and a top pitching prospect. That unknown prospect may be a sticking point, but it can probably be worked out. Alex Woodson (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/W/alex-woodson.shtml) has been previously mentioned in discussions between the two clubs. It would be a daring move by Kenny Williams to subtract Uribe and Aaron Rowand (http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/R/aaron-rowand.shtml) after winning a World Series with defense as the team's strength.
That is WAY too high a price for Tejada - instead of a middle prospect it's now TWO TOP prospects?
It's hard to believe we're throwing everything we have for the future into next year.

KRS1
01-04-2006, 03:49 PM
Please people read all the boards before you post, not only is there some very insightful thinking, but it gets you up to date.

Oh yeah Whats the Score Dude?

soxfan26
01-04-2006, 03:49 PM
dude, what's the score?

Seriously this was the wrong day to see "WHITE SOX RECEIVE TEJADA" in the clubhouse! :angry: