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Jjav829
12-29-2005, 09:54 PM
Come on, Orioles. Stop screwing around and just give him to us already. :D:

"Now, I am more upset than when I requested the trade because it's been a month and they haven't done anything," Tejada told The Associated Press on Thursday.

"I don't want to say anything bad that can hurt my teammates, but look at Toronto, they have strengthened themselves and we haven't done anything," said Tejada.

He sure sounds thrilled with the possibility of remaining an Oriole.

Get it done, Kenny. Just finish this deal and you can take the rest of the winter off. :cool:

Link (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-orioles-tejada&prov=ap&type=lgns)

Daver
12-29-2005, 10:03 PM
Just say no to Miguel Tejeda.

Please.

The Deacon
12-29-2005, 10:06 PM
Tejada singlehandedly carried the A's to the playoffs in September, not once, but TWICE. And won an MVP for his efforts. I'll take him. Happily.

Fenway
12-29-2005, 10:12 PM
meanwhile we have this

Mets would send Lastings Milledge, Anderson Hernandez, Aaron Heilman and Xavier Nady to Tampa Bay for Lugo, Huff and Baez. New York would then send Lugo, Huff, Kris Benson and Cliff Floyd to Baltimore for Tejada, and then send Tejada to the Red Sox for Manny Ramirez.

http://www.gothambaseball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1945

FedEx227
12-29-2005, 10:16 PM
I don't want anything to do with Tejada's attitute or his love of the strikeout.

No thanks, we have a fine World Series caliber team without him.

Fenway
12-29-2005, 10:19 PM
boston.com adds this

the White Sox appear to be the latest Chicago team intent on making sure the former MVP lands in the Windy City. Fresh off inking Jon Garland (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-051228soxgarland,1,5169643.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines&ctrack=1&cset=true) to a three-year, $29 million deal yesterday (which compared to the incongruous contracts doled out to the likes of Kevin Millwood (http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/13505806.htm) and Overrated AJ Burnett, might be the best pitcher signing of the offseason), the White Sox might now go after the Orioles’ Tejada by dangling pitcher Jose Contreras and shortstop Juan Uribe in exchange.

http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/wilbur/sports_blog/blog/2005/12/29/birds_of_a_whether/

The Deacon
12-29-2005, 10:19 PM
meanwhile we have this



http://www.gothambaseball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1945

If this happens, I'm sure the Boston fans and media will figure a way to run Tejada out of town in 2007. Maybe the SOX can get him for a cpupld of pounds of lake perch.

Jjav829
12-29-2005, 10:21 PM
I don't want anything to do with Tejada's attitute or his love of the strikeout.

No thanks, we have a fine World Series caliber team without him.

What "attitude problems?"

That whole 'I want to play for a contender' thing? :rolleyes:

FedEx227
12-29-2005, 10:21 PM
I don't understand why we would want to get rid of Uribe, yes his hitting can be suspect at times, but his range/arm/overall fielding ability is unmatched. If we add Tejada this team is falling under the same 2000-2004 trap of lots of power-hitters but nobody willing to sacrifice themselves for the good of the team.


What "attitude problems?"

That whole 'I want to play for a contender' thing? :rolleyes:

Complaining in general, it'll start out as a "I want to play for a contender" and if thats granted he'll start complaining about everything. I remember a certain football player with the number 81 who JUST wanted to play for a contender.

samram
12-29-2005, 10:23 PM
I don't want anything to do with Tejada's attitute or his love of the strikeout.

No thanks, we have a fine World Series caliber team without him.

What love of the strikeout? His Ks in the last five years: 89, 84, 65, 73, 83. Those are hardly Rob Deer numbers.

Fenway
12-29-2005, 10:24 PM
If this happens, I'm sure the Boston fans and media will figure a way to run Tejada out of town in 2007. Maybe the SOX can get him for a cpupld of pounds of lake perch.

The store across the street from Fenway has 80% off on Nomar, Damon and Renteria shirts :smile:

I think a lot of how this plays out is how badly to the Mets want Manny and what they can package to make Boston happy.

Jjav829
12-29-2005, 10:25 PM
Complaining in general, it'll start out as a "I want to play for a contender" and if thats granted he'll start complaining about everything. I remember a certain football player with the number 81 who JUST wanted to play for a contender.
You're joking, right? Miguel Tejada and Terrell Owens are about as different as two people can be. I hope you were joking, or at least plan to play it off as a joke after you realize your error.

batmanZoSo
12-29-2005, 10:26 PM
What love of the strikeout? His Ks in the last five years: 89, 84, 65, 73, 83. Those are hardly Rob Deer numbers.

Especially when you factor in those low K totals, I always thought he was the most similar hitter statistically to a healthy Magglio. Only he plays middle infield. Yeah, he's pretty good.

FedEx227
12-29-2005, 10:27 PM
Yea, that was my fault, I just remembered in his Oakland days the strikeout numbers were always in the 80s, 90s, 100s.

FedEx227
12-29-2005, 10:33 PM
You're joking, right? Miguel Tejada and Terrell Owens are about as different as two people can be. I hope you were joking, or at least plan to play it off as a joke after you realize your error.

How are they any different in their aspect of complaining? Both demanded trades from their teams to play for contenders. I don't see how they are that much different. Both are workhorses and durable, dependable players on the field and Tejada has been noted as not taking too lightly to critique and instruction from hitting coaches.

...I know everyone is sipping the Miguel Tejada kool-aid and on the Jose Contreras bashing bandwagon, but are we forgetting that Juan Uribe was instrumental in us not only beating Cleveland (Joe Crede walk-off game, with his amazing defense all game) but also Game 4 of the World Series.

I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just saying that I think we'd be better-off not becoming the Yankees and worrying a little about the attitute and chemisty of the team over gauty stats.

Brian26
12-29-2005, 10:35 PM
Tejada singlehandedly carried the A's to the playoffs in September, not once, but TWICE. And won an MVP for his efforts. I'll take him. Happily.

And Kenny Williams singhandedly revamped the entire mindset of this organization last winter by getting rid of all the guys with this attitude. I like his numbers, but the player he is doesn't fit into the delicate balance of the team philosophy that had been created here. Tejada is Jose Valentin times 20.

All that said, I'd rather have Uribe's gun at shortstop.

Daver
12-29-2005, 10:37 PM
Take a long hard look at the photo on the cover of SI, and tell me if you can pick out a single "ego" player out of that group.

This is not fantasy baseball, George Steinbrennar proved to the world that you can't rely on that.

FedEx227
12-29-2005, 10:37 PM
Thank you!

Did we not learn anything from the 2005 White Sox, 2003 Marlins, 2002 Angels and the 2001-Present Yankees that its not always big bats and stats that win titles.

Tragg
12-29-2005, 10:37 PM
Complaining about where he's playing, especially when it is a result of an affirmative choice he made, is Owensesque - I'm sure they are completely different people, but both people are publically complaining about a situation that they caused. I hate that kind of crap. What tangible evidence did he have that the Orioles would try to contend when he signed that contract.

Second, his numbers are great for a SS, very good for an outfielder. BUT, just like a catcher, you really have to pay a high price to get that production from an infielder. If you're on a budget, I would accept my offensive holes at C and SS, and make sure we didn't have any anywhere else. But, if we can afford him, without cutting corners anywhere else, fine.

Jjav829
12-29-2005, 10:42 PM
How are they any different in their aspect of complaining? Both demanded trades from their teams to play for contenders. I don't see how they are that much different. Both are workhorses and durable, dependable players on the field and Tejada has been noted as not taking too lightly to critique and instruction from hitting coaches.

They are completely different people. Terrell Owens has always been about Terrell Owens. Yes, I suppose you can say they are similar players in their playing styles. But that's not what you said. You were comparing their attitudes and that comparison is completely off base. Miguel Tejada is a leader and a great clubhouse guy. Terrell Owens is a self-absorbed piece of ****. It's an awful comparison. Really, don't try to defend it. The comparison is way off.

...I know everyone is sipping the Miguel Tejada kool-aid and on the Jose Contreras bashing bandwagon, but are we forgetting that Juan Uribe was instrumental in us not only beating Cleveland (Joe Crede walk-off game, with his amazing defense all game) but also Game 4 of the World Series.

Right, we're sipping the Miguel Tejada kool-aid because we want the best shortstop in baseball on our team. :rolleyes:

And no one is on a "Jose Contreras bashing bandwagon." I don't even know who you are referring to, but I'm guessing you say that because some people would like to see Contreras traded. The only reason for that is because some feel that trading Contreras can improve the team, particularly if it is for a player the calibur of Tejada.

I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just saying that I think we'd be better-off not becoming the Yankees and worrying a little about the attitute and chemisty of the team over gauty stats.

The attitude will be the same, possibly even better, with Tejada. Do you really think Uribe played a huge role in the chemistry of the team? The guy barely speaks English. Even Ozzie says that he can't understand Uribe.

Look, if you want to make an argument that we should keep Uribe because of his great defense and not lock into Tejada's big deal, that's fine. I'll accept that as a valid argument. Uribe is in my opinion about as good of a defensive shortstop as there is, short of Rafael Furcal. We would be sacrificing some defense for offense. If you want to say that we shouldn't do that, fine. But don't make up bad arguments about how Tejada has a bad attitude when there is absolutely no evidence supporting that argument.

The Deacon
12-29-2005, 10:44 PM
Take a long hard look at the photo on the cover of SI, and tell me if you can pick out a single "ego" player out of that group.

This is not fantasy baseball, George Steinbrennar proved to the world that you can't rely on that.

I honestly dont think Tejada has an ego problem if that's what you're getting at. He was known as a character guy before he demanded a trade.
A bit more about demanding a trade..... Why shouldnt he?? He was promised things that never happened. He realized he signed with a crappy organization. An honest mistake. I actually see it as being in GODD character to want out. The guy wants to win and he sure isnt going to win in Baltimore. Is wanting out really that bad?? I dont think so and 'm completely sympathetic. Winning seems to be the bottom line with Tejada.
If either our jobs sucked and our organiztions were going nowhere, we'd want out too.

Jjav829
12-29-2005, 10:46 PM
And Kenny Williams singhandedly revamped the entire mindset of this organization last winter by getting rid of all the guys with this attitude. I like his numbers, but the player he is doesn't fit into the delicate balance of the team philosophy that had been created here. Tejada is Jose Valentin times 20.

Huh? Wow, this thread gets more ridiculous as it goes. Now Miguel Tejada is comparable to Jose Valentin? What the ****? Unless you are saying that Miguel Tejada is 20 times the player Jose Valentin was, I have no idea how that statement makes any sense whatsoever.

Brian26
12-29-2005, 10:50 PM
A bit more about demanding a trade..... Why shouldnt he?? He was promised things that never happened.

So he wants to have his cake and eat it too. He could have stayed with the A's for less money and been on the favorite to win the AL West next year. You're telling me he was unaware that the Red Sox and Yankees play in the AL East when he signed that contract for such an ungodly amount of money with Baltimore? There's something to be said for integrity, and demanding a trade two years after you sign a contract like that shows little integrity.

The Deacon
12-29-2005, 10:50 PM
Huh? Wow, this thread gets more ridiculous as it goes. Now Miguel Tejada is comparable to Jose Valentin? What the ****? Unless you are saying that Miguel Tejada is 20 times the player Jose Valentin was, I have no idea how that statement makes any sense whatsoever.

Valentin is 20 times the mustache Tejada is.

Brian26
12-29-2005, 10:51 PM
Unless you are saying that Miguel Tejada is 20 times the player Jose Valentin was, I have no idea how that statement makes any sense whatsoever.

Try a little harder. It's not that hard to figure out.

FedEx227
12-29-2005, 10:52 PM
And no one is on a "Jose Contreras bashing bandwagon." I don't even know who you are referring to, but I'm guessing you say that because some people would like to see Contreras traded. The only reason for that is because some feel that trading Contreras can improve the team, particularly if it is for a player the calibur of Tejada.
I'm saying that because most of this site has turned into Offseason Windsocks. When we were on the cusp of trading Jon Garland it was "Great, he only had one good year, he wants too much money anyway", now that hes resigned it Contreras "What did he have besides a good 1/2"... now with this Tejada stuff we are downplaying the fact that Uribe was the heart and soul of our infield and coupled with Joe Crede gave us the best defense infield in baseball, one that helped carry the team through much of our dry-offensive spells and his ability to turn a great double-play was a blessing for our ground-ball pitchers. Thats all I was implying through that.

Jjav829
12-29-2005, 10:53 PM
Try a little harder. It's not that hard to figure out.

Why don't you just explain it instead of being a smart ass...:rolleyes:

The Deacon
12-29-2005, 10:57 PM
So he wants to have his cake and eat it too. He could have stayed with the A's for less money and been on the favorite to win the AL West next year. You're telling me he was unaware that the Red Sox and Yankees play in the AL East when he signed that contract for such an ungodly amount of money with Baltimore? There's something to be said for integrity, and demanding a trade two years after you sign a contract like that shows little integrity.

It has nothing to do with the Yanks and Red Cubs. In the 2003 offseason, the Orioles signed Javy Lopez, Palmerio and Tejada. They had a pretty good offense in 2004 with the above 3, Roberts and Mora. Things were looking pretty good. EXCEPT, the Orioles need pitching. Everyone seems to know that except them and they are doing nothing about it. I'd be pissed too if my teams #1 priority SHOULD be pitching but instead they sign Ramon Hernandez as a backup catcher for 4 years/28 million.
If it was any other organization I may bash Tejada for doing what he's doing.

lumpyspun
12-29-2005, 11:00 PM
I think Owens is more of a standup guy...at least he never injected teammates with B-12 supplements

Fenway
12-29-2005, 11:28 PM
from the Friday Baltimore Sun ( A Cubune Paper )

http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-tejada1229,1,3601078.story?coll=bal-sports-baseball&ctrack=1&cset=true

By Rick Maese
Sun Reporter
Originally published December 29, 2005, 9:40 PM EST
SANTO DOMINGO, Dominican Republic // The ire of Miguel Tejada is hotter than ever. The Orioles' star shortstop reiterated his request to play elsewhere in 2006, backing away from recent comments that seemed to have put many fans' worries at ease.

"Next year, I want to be somewhere where they want to win," he said in an interview last night before playing in a Dominican League game.

DVsoxfan
12-29-2005, 11:31 PM
Now I'm a big fan of Tejada...and he is a well known clubhouse leader. However, theres the possibility that this type of guy that could come in and expect his new team to be HIS team if he is traded here. That would not fly well with ozzie...or pauly or anyone else for that matter cuz were a TEAM. We won as a team...and we have to win in the future as a team. What we all seem to forget is that Uribe is very capable of putting up similar power numbers to Tejada. last year Tejada had 26 homers last year..Uribe is one year removed from hitting 23. And we haven't even touched on the base that Uribe has a stronger arm then Tejada, is younger then Tejada, and has more range then Tejada. IMO...were best off staying pat...Contreras has dominating stuff and could continue on his 2nd half/post season sucess. just my thoughts

Pureone
12-29-2005, 11:57 PM
I am a huge Tejada fan BUT I don't think that Uribe is a huge problem, therefor I'm not going to be upset if we keep him or trade him.

...but then again Tejada can kinda speak English.:redneck

Ward Hershberger
12-30-2005, 12:20 AM
I am a huge Tejada fan BUT I don't think that Uribe is a huge problem, therefor I'm not going to be upset if we keep him or trade him.

...but then again Tejada can kinda speak English.:redneck

...and he can kinda drive in runs too. I've said before that I don't really want to see KW move any more of the 2005 players, but if Tejada could be acquired for the right price, I'd be much happier seeing him play in a Sox uniforn, rather than for somebody we have to contend with.

StockdaleForVeep
12-30-2005, 12:37 AM
Tejada in southside Chicago speak is spelled U-R-I-B-E

Ron Karkovice
12-30-2005, 01:13 AM
I'll be a happy camper if we get him or not. But can you imagine the batting order with power hitters like Thome, Konerko, Tejada, Dye, (hell even add Crede and AJ). I know we want to get away from the Carlos Lee, Magglio power days where the sox couldnt get anywhere, but god damn!

And I also wouldnt mind McCarthy to finally get his real chance, but then again there are the stupid injury risks of the WBC. God, I'll just let KW do his job and continue to be excited for spring training.

JB98
12-30-2005, 01:29 AM
I hope KW passes on Tejada.

I think Uribe and Crede are both stalwarts defensively. We have three starting pitchers who throw a lot of ground balls in Buerhle, Contreras and Garland. Anything hit to the left side of our infield was an out last year. I'd like to keep it that way.

With the acquistion of Thome and the resigning of Konerko, the middle of our order has been solidified. We really don't need Tejada's bat.

Tejada is a great player, but we don't have a hole at shortstop, nor is our lineup lacking in run producers. Why give up a quality pitcher like Contreras for a hitter we don't really need?

I'm content if we go into spring training with the roster we have now.

Flight #24
12-30-2005, 08:06 AM
There is no debate on this: Miguel Tejada makes the Sox a far far better team than Juan Uribe. He's been known as a solid chemistry guy/leader until this demand, and it's not like he went to Detroit for more money, he went somewhere where they were throwing $$$ around like confetti - so he could reasonably expect a strong team (but they're just plain dumb so they spent it wrong).

Yes, Juan is a better defender, but Miguel is so far superior offensively that it pales any defensive shortcomings. And Miggy's a good defender, Juan's just superlative.

But this trade likely makes no sense financially (although they keep pushing those boundaries). What DOES make sense is now to help the O's keep Miggy by draining their system of talent to get a guy like Contreras that can help now and help keep Miggy happier now. I'm thinking something like Penn-Lowen-Markakis for him. Or Bedard for JC+a pitching prospect. Git'r'done, Kenny.

EDIT: Or flip 'em Vazquez for Bedard/prospects, keep the cash from the DBacks/Yankees, and give Jose $11M/3 years (lowering his cost with the DBacks $$$).

HotelWhiteSox
12-30-2005, 08:07 AM
I don't understand why we would want to get rid of Uribe, yes his hitting can be suspect at times, but his range/arm/overall fielding ability is unmatched. If we add Tejada this team is falling under the same 2000-2004 trap of lots of power-hitters but nobody willing to sacrifice themselves for the good of the team.

This is the aspect that worries me as well, going back to the teams of 03. Then again, it is Tejada, and his defense isn't bad. The difference with this team and the 03 Sox or the teams Steinbrenner tried to buy the last 3 years is this team would still have the best starting pitching in the league. Granted, defense helps pitching, and I don't know his numbers, but isn't Tejada also very good defensively? Add him to already having the pitching staff, closer, leadoff man, and a team that already lived and died by the HR anyways, and I think Cleveland soils themselves.

downstairs
12-30-2005, 08:33 AM
boston.com adds this

the White Sox appear to be the latest Chicago team intent on making sure the former MVP lands in the Windy City. Fresh off inking Jon Garland (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-051228soxgarland,1,5169643.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines&ctrack=1&cset=true) to a three-year, $29 million deal yesterday (which compared to the incongruous contracts doled out to the likes of Kevin Millwood (http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/13505806.htm) and Overrated AJ Burnett, might be the best pitcher signing of the offseason), the White Sox might now go after the Orioles’ Tejada by dangling pitcher Jose Contreras and shortstop Juan Uribe in exchange.

http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/wilbur/sports_blog/blog/2005/12/29/birds_of_a_whether/

Jose would be a fine trade for Tejada (depending on who else is included, of course)... but why is Jon Garland not still major trade bait? Hey, I love what he did last season... but his stock, like Jose's, has never been higher... AND to boot, the O's get the benefit of the White Sox already doing the dirty work of negotiating a great deal.

If I were the O's I'd take Garland for Tejada straight-up right now.

INSox56
12-30-2005, 08:41 AM
I dunno guys, I used to think this deal would be good and just get rid of Uribe. But every day I get more against it. Uribe is obviously solid, amazing defensively and a great clubhouse guy as well from what I can tell by watching him interact with the guys. And offensively, the trend for him hasn't been outstanding, but does anyone remember his offense in the postseason? Pretty good, pretty good.

I just don't like this recent comment about Tejada..."I am not asking for a team of superstars, I only want a good group that helps me to win,''. Gee, if that's not throwing your teammates under the bus and saying "you suck" to your current teammates (brian roberts included), I don't know what is. What happens if our team ever goes into a rut, he's going to whine and complain that we suck now.. great, THAT'S good for chemistry...

ilsox7
12-30-2005, 08:44 AM
Jose would be a fine trade for Tejada (depending on who else is included, of course)... but why is Jon Garland not still major trade bait? Hey, I love what he did last season... but his stock, like Jose's, has never been higher... AND to boot, the O's get the benefit of the White Sox already doing the dirty work of negotiating a great deal.

If I were the O's I'd take Garland for Tejada straight-up right now.

Jon has a NTC this year.

AZChiSoxFan
12-30-2005, 09:21 AM
I honestly dont think Tejada has an ego problem if that's what you're getting at. He was known as a character guy before he demanded a trade.
A bit more about demanding a trade..... Why shouldnt he?? He was promised things that never happened. He realized he signed with a crappy organization. An honest mistake. I actually see it as being in GODD character to want out. The guy wants to win and he sure isnt going to win in Baltimore. Is wanting out really that bad?? I dont think so and 'm completely sympathetic. Winning seems to be the bottom line with Tejada.
If either our jobs sucked and our organiztions were going nowhere, we'd want out too.

An honest mistake? GMAB.

This is what makes me sick about pro athletes. Did anybody on the planet not know that the O's were a crappy organization back when Tejada signed with them? If a player is a FA and just wants the most money, more power to them, but don't cry when the team sucks. If winning is as important as some of these clowns claim it is, then take a few dollars less to sign with a winner.

daveeym
12-30-2005, 10:02 AM
I hope KW passes on Tejada.

I think Uribe and Crede are both stalwarts defensively. We have three starting pitchers who throw a lot of ground balls in Buerhle, Contreras and Garland. Anything hit to the left side of our infield was an out last year. I'd like to keep it that way.

With the acquistion of Thome and the resigning of Konerko, the middle of our order has been solidified. We really don't need Tejada's bat.

Tejada is a great player, but we don't have a hole at shortstop, nor is our lineup lacking in run producers. Why give up a quality pitcher like Contreras for a hitter we don't really need?

I'm content if we go into spring training with the roster we have now. Wow this thread is insane (nothing specific to you JB). People being called windsocks because they're rationally analyzing potential trades from a baseball and BUSINESS standpoint. Both Garland and Jose should be moved IF they didn't/don't sign. There's nothing windsock about it. It's common sense. Why piss away value?

Bad character? How about bad faith or imcompetence on the Oriole's part? They either stopped trying or can't get the job done and get a pitching staff in there. As shown above they had a good core and made some strong moves when they signed Tejada. They've completely regressed since. I'd want out too and can't blame anyone other than an AROD type for wanting out either. AROD wanted the biggest contract ever. Tejada wanted his value and to play for a winner. The O's reneged on half of that.

For everyone whining about his offensive style and we're changing the team's offense, get a grip. Uribe didn't bring anything other than "potential" to the plate. Swapping in Tejada improves the offense and give's it more balance. If you were removing Pods or Iguchi for Tejada then you could start to make a case that the Sox are regressing to the Magg's/Lee philosphy. However, that's not the case. Our offense sucked last year, face it. Thome and Tejada would drastically upgrade and balance out the lineup.

slavko
12-30-2005, 10:58 AM
He went from a better than good team where he liked the situation to a mediocre team with an untested situation for more $$$.

He went public with his complaints, decreasing his trade value, rather than working through the club that was paying him the aforementioned king's ransom.

He would be replacing the heart of our defense.

He would cost us our best 2nd half pitcher and a prospect and JU, too.

You sure you want him?

StepsInSC
12-30-2005, 11:00 AM
Wow this thread is insane

I agree. The best argument I've seen against this is possible effects on the chemistry of the clubhouse. All the other ones are out there and unrelated to anything, IMO, the Sox should be considering (such as the one along the lines of "he deserves to flounder with the Orioles b/c he signed with them for all that $$$" - How again is this a factor the Sox should consider??). And then equating Tejada to TO b/c Tejada is unhappy with his team? TO wasn't a huge problem just b/c he was wanted to play for a winner, he was a basketcase in 356,391 different other areas. Tejada, however, seems to have a good track record and now wants to play for a winner. Furthermore, Tejada has yet to take as large a step as TO, such as refusing flat out to play for certain teams.

I'd be content with Tejada or Uribe, but I think we would be a stronger club with Tejada.

WSox597
12-30-2005, 11:02 AM
The Sox won the Series with Uribe at shortstop. It's not broken, don't give up people to fix it. He's outstanding with the glove and arm. He does need discipline at the plate, they can work on that.

Nothing against Tejada, he's a fine player. Until recently I would have loved to see him playing for the Sox. I believe Uribe will be fine if Walker or someone can fine tune his hitting.



(Formerly known as Blancos Medias. A bad pun in worse Spanish.)

daveeym
12-30-2005, 11:27 AM
I'd be content with Tejada or Uribe, but I think we would be a stronger club with Tejada. Exactly, if it can be done, great. If not no skin off the Sox back. It's the crazy arguments against that get my head spinning.

Optipessimism
12-30-2005, 11:43 AM
...I know everyone is sipping the Miguel Tejada kool-aid and on the Jose Contreras bashing bandwagon, but are we forgetting that Juan Uribe was instrumental in us not only beating Cleveland (Joe Crede walk-off game, with his amazing defense all game) but also Game 4 of the World Series.

I've said all along that I would prefer to send Crede away and move Juan to 3B mainly because of Joe's back issues, but I doubt that would happen. Even if it meant parting with a prospect or two to shine the deal up a bit more, I'd still do it. The Orioles could put Mora at SS although I don't know if he'd want to play there.

I still think one of these days Juan is going to find some consistency and hit around .290 with about 25 HR's or so on top of his usually excellent defense and speed at the bottom of the order. Plus I laugh when he runs and find his locker room celebrations amusing, so I'd like to see him stay if at all possible.

HotelWhiteSox
12-30-2005, 11:46 AM
This is from mlbtraderumors.com (put in it what you want. I found the site after it was linked here. Seems they search newspapers and get reports from sports radio station for most of their info)


A source close to a major sports representation firm has tipped me off to two offers the White Sox currently have on the table for shortstop Miguel Tejada.
Two formal proposals have been given to the Orioles by Sox GM Kenny Williams. Williams set a drop dead date of December 31st given other clubs' outstanding offers for Tejada.
Option 1: Jose Contreras, Juan Uribe, and one minor league prospect for Tejada.
Option 2: Brandon McCarthy, Juan Uribe, 20 year-old southpaw Alex Woodson, and another minor leaguer for Tejada. In this scenario, the White Sox would get cash back from the Orioles in the third and fourth years of Tejada's contract.

TheOldRoman
12-30-2005, 11:51 AM
This is from mlbtraderumors.com (put in it what you want. I found the site after it was linked here. Seems they search newspapers and get reports from sports radio station for most of their info)
The only way the Sox trade McCarthy is if they get Johann Santana in return.

ilsox7
12-30-2005, 11:53 AM
The only way the Sox trade McCarthy is if they get Johann Santana in return.

I don't know about that. While it is extremely unlikely he gets traded, such a deal as the one mentioned would allow the Sox to extend Contreras and therefore still have an awesome 5 starters under contract for 2 more years.

PaleHoseGeorge
12-30-2005, 11:58 AM
This is from blahblahblah.com (put in it what you want. I found the site after it was linked here. Seems they search newspapers and get reports from sports radio station for most of their info)

Look, if I wanted credible rumors of this sort, I would ask ChiSoxTony for an update from the guy on the other end of his cellphone.

:wink:

SOX ADDICT '73
12-30-2005, 12:04 PM
...nor is our lineup lacking in run producers...
Not to mention the different ways to produce runs: Uribe was tied (with Crazy Carl) for 2nd in the league with 10 sac flies, and tied (with Iguchi) for third with 11 sac bunts, both times just 2 behind the league leader. Tejada was tied for 76th in sac flies (3) and had zero sac bunts.

I know some of you will say that Tejada isn't expected to do those things, but it would be interesting to see a stat showing how many times an Oriole runner was left on third with less than two outs after Miguel popped up or struck out while swinging for the fences.

RoobarbPie
12-30-2005, 12:05 PM
The only way the Sox trade McCarthy is if they get Johann Santana in return.
I disagree. While McCarthy will be cheap for a long time and has shown flashes of brilliance, I'm guessing that Kenny might be willing to part with him for a former MVP.

Personally, I would rather see Jose leave so that the rotation gets younger and is locked up for a longer time, but you just never know what Kenny will do anymore.

The one thing none of us know is what Jerry is willing to push the payroll to. That would be a factor of how important it is to keep McCarthy for the future...

scope1200
12-30-2005, 12:20 PM
dealing contreras for tejada makes more sense regarding the payroll

mccarthy for tejada would increase 2006 payroll another $12m

daveeym
12-30-2005, 12:21 PM
Not to mention the different ways to produce runs: Uribe was tied (with Crazy Carl) for 2nd in the league with 10 sac flies, and tied (with Iguchi) for third with 11 sac bunts, both times just 2 behind the league leader. Tejada was tied for 76th in sac flies (3) and had zero sac bunts.

I know some of you will say that Tejada isn't expected to do those things, but it would be interesting to see a stat showing how many times an Oriole runner was left on third with less than two outs after Miguel popped up or struck out while swinging for the fences. Have another:gulp:

SouthSide_HitMen
12-30-2005, 12:22 PM
"Now, I am more upset than when I requested the trade because it's been a month and they haven't done anything," Tejada told The Associated Press on Thursday.

http://www.mavericktimes.com/triumph.jpg

"Oh no, not that. Kenny Williams should get him in a trade so I have something to poop on."

samram
12-30-2005, 12:53 PM
Not to mention the different ways to produce runs: Uribe was tied (with Crazy Carl) for 2nd in the league with 10 sac flies, and tied (with Iguchi) for third with 11 sac bunts, both times just 2 behind the league leader. Tejada was tied for 76th in sac flies (3) and had zero sac bunts.

I know some of you will say that Tejada isn't expected to do those things, but it would be interesting to see a stat showing how many times an Oriole runner was left on third with less than two outs after Miguel popped up or struck out while swinging for the fences.
Tejada had 98 RBI in a down year. Usually those runners on third come home with base hits, not sac flies.

Look, I don't care which is the starting SS in 2006, but the arguments that Uribe is somehow better than Tejada are just bad.

TheVulture
12-30-2005, 01:08 PM
Interesting Uribe vs. Tejada factoid. At the age of 24, Uribe posted an OPS of .833, while Tejada put up an .828, his highest to that point, at the same age. Granted last year at 25, Uribe had a .713 while at 25 Tejada had a .802, but I think people are overstating his relative value here. The guy is a career .338 OBP and a downgrade defensively(although not a huge dropoff, still significant). Yeah, he had a season where he drove in 150 runs, but is he really worth a 25 year old Gold Glove caliber shortstop who has 25 HR potential AND an ace in Jose Contreras? I don't think so.

I say ride the horse that is Contreras for another year - which will allow flexibility in regards to the starting staff next season. KW would have the option of letting Contreras walk and picking up draft picks or trying to re-sign him if McCarthy flops and/or move another SP. Meanwhile, we'll have the nastiest staff in the majors lined up for '06 with an outstanding infield defense. I'd hate to see Contreras go and watch Vasquez and McCarthy struggle next year.

Paulwny
12-30-2005, 01:19 PM
Latest rumor in the Newark-Star Ledger, Mets working on a 3 way deal:

Kris Benson to Balt
Tajada to Bos
Ramirez to Mets
With a variety of players and cash bouncing around

Brian26
12-30-2005, 01:30 PM
Look, I don't care which is the starting SS in 2006, but the arguments that Uribe is somehow better than Tejada are just bad.

I've never said that Uribe is a better player than Tejada. Tejada puts up better offensive numbers, and statistically looks like a better player. However, I strongly believe Tejada is not a good fit with the current White Sox team. There are certain intangibles that people aren't considering.

Iwritecode
12-30-2005, 01:52 PM
I've never said that Uribe is a better player than Tejada. Tejada puts up better offensive numbers, and statistically looks like a better player. However, I strongly believe Tejada is not a good fit with the current White Sox team. There are certain intangibles that people aren't considering.

I agree.

Personally, I don't care how much better Tejada is offensively over Juan. I really don't want to see them downgrade on defense. Watching Crede, Uribe and Iguchi flashing leather all through the playoffs was a thing of beauty.

If it was Tejada instead of Uribe in those games, I'm not so sure we'd be world champions right now. Anyone remember how badly the offense went to sleep in the 2000 ALDS?

The Yankees have been unsuccessfully trying to slug their way back to another title for the past 5 or so years. I think Boston is the only team that has actually won it all with a powerful offense. Even they had some good pitching to back it up though...

RallyBowl
12-30-2005, 02:11 PM
Let's put it this way-

IF we get Tejada, we will be awesome.

IF we don't get him, we will be awesome.

:cool:

Baby Fisk
12-30-2005, 02:15 PM
IF we don't get him, we will be awesome.

:cool:
This is the reason why we don't NEED to get him.

daveeym
12-30-2005, 02:41 PM
This is the reason why we don't NEED to get him. No reason to pass him up though if the price is right. Such a beautiful situation to be in. To be able to have two devils, one on each shoulder, laughing at everyone else.

Baby Fisk
12-30-2005, 03:02 PM
No reason to pass him up though if the price is right. Such a beautiful situation to be in. To be able to have two devils, one on each shoulder, laughing at everyone else.
It's pretty nutty, some of us sitting here going "Naaaaah, we don't need Tejada! We're stacked enough as it is!" This sort of thing was inconceivable a short while ago.

DaleJRFan
12-30-2005, 05:25 PM
I think Owens is more of a standup guy...at least he never injected teammates with B-12 supplements

Jeez people, can we stop with the ridiculous B12 crap.... please?? You can buy B12 capsules at Target for cryin' out loud.

Pureone
12-30-2005, 06:44 PM
The Sox won the Series with Uribe at shortstop. It's not broken, don't give up people to fix it.

When has a team ever had a repeat with the same exact roster?

You have to constantly keep trying to improve.

JB98
12-30-2005, 09:50 PM
This is the reason why we don't NEED to get him.

Amen. I'd rather hold on to our pitching depth than trade for another hitter.

Personally, I would never argue that Uribe is better than Tejada. That's ludicrous. All I'm saying is, we don't need Tejada to win, so why would we give up pitching to fill a hole that doesn't exist?

KRS1
12-30-2005, 10:10 PM
When has a team ever had a repeat with the same exact roster?

You have to constantly keep trying to improve.

How is our roster the same? We added and subtracted a bunch, and will add some more before it's all said and done. Please all you Miggy fans try to leave your affinity for him aside when looking at our goals as a team. I'm not saying he isnt great and I'm not saying he wouldnt make our offense a ton better, but when you take away two main components (our best infielder, and best pitcher) from our first WS title in 88 years to do so it isnt exactly an improvement. SS may not be an offensive powerhouse area for us, but Uribe has come up clutch in more ways than I can describe with his mit and golden arm.

Fenway
12-30-2005, 10:52 PM
latest update from Baltimore Sun

use your Chicago Tribune account and password


http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-orioles30,1,5302811.story?coll=


Publicly, the Orioles say there is no rush in dealing the former MVP, but privately at least one club official said the team would like to set a final deadline for trade offers within the next week and decide whether to keep or deal Tejada shortly thereafter.

The most interested teams appear to be the Boston Red Sox, Chicago Cubs, Philadelphia Phillies, Chicago White Sox, Houston Astros, New York Mets and Los Angeles Angels

SOX ADDICT '73
12-31-2005, 01:25 AM
I've never said that Uribe is a better player than Tejada. Tejada puts up better offensive numbers, and statistically looks like a better player. However, I strongly believe Tejada is not a good fit with the current White Sox team. There are certain intangibles that people aren't considering.
This is all I was pointing out with my post about the sacrifice flies and bunts. Tejada is the better overall player, and has superior stats in all the "important" categories, but we already have players that do many of the things he does.

However, every team also needs guys who do the "little things", who are willing to give themselves up for the team when the situation calls for it. The Sox lost in '01-'04 partly because Manuel built a lineup of mashers (some of whom also happened to be defensive liabilities). They won in '05 because they had a balanced lineup, good defense, and great pitching. Reportedly we'd be giving up a little of all three to get Tejada. Now that's a sacrifice I don't want them to make...

RadioheadRocks
12-31-2005, 01:29 AM
Words of advice to Miguel Tejada: "build a bridge and GET OVER IT!!!"

StockdaleForVeep
12-31-2005, 01:36 AM
In latin, short stop is spelled U-R-I-B-E

VenturaSoxFan23
12-31-2005, 12:41 PM
It's a wonder he even signed with the O's in the first place. He's not past his prime and under the age of 35; those are two requirements for signing with them.

I love watching these people sign for huge contracts with horsecrap teams, then cry about not having a decent team to back them up. Let him rot.

Color me among those that think we've done enough to revamp the Sox this year.

StepsInSC
12-31-2005, 12:44 PM
I love watching these people sign for huge contracts with horsecrap teams, then cry about not having a decent team to back them up. Let him rot.

For a summary of why this statement is garbage, feel free to go read the Tejada thread in "What's the Score?"

spiffie
12-31-2005, 12:51 PM
How is our roster the same? We added and subtracted a bunch, and will add some more before it's all said and done. Please all you Miggy fans try to leave your affinity for him aside when looking at our goals as a team. I'm not saying he isnt great and I'm not saying he wouldnt make our offense a ton better, but when you take away two main components (our best infielder, and best pitcher) from our first WS title in 88 years to do so it isnt exactly an improvement. SS may not be an offensive powerhouse area for us, but Uribe has come up clutch in more ways than I can describe with his mit and golden arm.

First off, our best pitcher is a guy named Mark. And he is not in these discussions.

Secondly, our team goal is to win another World Series. And as much as I love our pitching, to ask them to come up with another amazing year of winning so many 1-run close high-pressure games is asking a lot of the staff and the bullpen.

As for Uribe, I like Uribe. If we go into this year with him as SS I will not be wailing about how we have no chance. But to get perhaps a 5% drop in defense (it's not like Tejada is Jose Valentin with the glove) for a much bigger boost on offense would be huge for this team. And should any of our pitchers fall off at all this year, I feel much more comfortable with a sturdier offense behind them.

KRS1
12-31-2005, 01:10 PM
First off, our best pitcher is a guy named Mark. And he is not in these discussions.

Secondly, our team goal is to win another World Series. And as much as I love our pitching, to ask them to come up with another amazing year of winning so many 1-run close high-pressure games is asking a lot of the staff and the bullpen.

As for Uribe, I like Uribe. If we go into this year with him as SS I will not be wailing about how we have no chance. But to get perhaps a 5% drop in defense (it's not like Tejada is Jose Valentin with the glove) for a much bigger boost on offense would be huge for this team. And should any of our pitchers fall off at all this year, I feel much more comfortable with a sturdier offense behind them.

If you read what I said, Jose was our best pitcher in the WS, yes Mark is our leader and ace, but Count clearly was our best man to go out there in the playoffs.

HotelWhiteSox
12-31-2005, 01:46 PM
I love watching these people sign for huge contracts with horsecrap teams, then cry about not having a decent team to back them up. Let him rot.

To those who counter the argument by saying he wants to play for a contender, there is nothing guaranteed in this game. God forbid a freak injury or an off year by someone on this team and then Tejada will be crying to be traded again. I like our chances next year, but you can't guarantee success, and Tejada looks like an idiot as the Orioles never had the prospect of being competitive in the AL East and he obviously signed there for the money. Now his money is guaranteed so he complains.

SOXSINCE'70
12-31-2005, 02:03 PM
Get it done, Kenny. Just finish this deal and you can take the rest of the winter off. :cool:

There are a few issues in the bullpen that are a little more
important than Miguel Tejada.This deal alone DOES NOT
make the Palehose an automatic entry into the 2006 post
season,IMHO.

TheOldRoman
12-31-2005, 04:35 PM
There are a few issues in the bullpen that are a little more
important than Miguel Tejada.This deal alone DOES NOT
make the Palehose an automatic entry into the 2006 post
season,IMHO.
There are no automatic entries into the postseason in any sports. The White Sox were the best team in baseball in 05, and they have become even better in 06. However, if the entire starting lineup and pitching staff gets injured, it won't make a bit of difference.
If there were such as thing as an automatic entry, it would be the Sox. They improved greatly, the Indians got worse, and the Twins spun their wheels. On paper, this Sox team looks like it might win 110-120 games.

DSpivack
01-01-2006, 03:44 AM
There are no automatic entries into the postseason in any sports. The White Sox were the best team in baseball in 05, and they have become even better in 06. However, if the entire starting lineup and pitching staff gets injured, it won't make a bit of difference.
If there were such as thing as an automatic entry, it would be the Sox. They improved greatly, the Indians got worse, and the Twins spun their wheels. On paper, this Sox team looks like it might win 110-120 games.

My main concern for next year is injuries. Frank Thomas aside, we were pretty healthy last year. If one starter goes down we have BMac, but besides that we don't have that much depth [maybe besides the OF].

Chitown Hitmen
01-01-2006, 09:21 AM
It would be nice to have him though, cause I can see him at SoxFest, but we need a lefty in the bull pen. How about Al Reyes? Maybe a one year deal and see how he does this season?

soxinem1
01-01-2006, 09:46 AM
There are a few issues in the bullpen that are a little more
important than Miguel Tejada.This deal alone DOES NOT
make the Palehose an automatic entry into the 2006 post
season,IMHO.

It's not like Uribe is Jerry Dybzinski with the bat, and I think Ozzie would like to keep the defensive spark that Juan provides.

Making upgrades is okay, but you have to remember that shortstop should still be a defensive position, especially on this team. I remember when the Yankees, fresh off a World Series appearance in 1981, dumped Bucky Dent to put Roy Smalley, clearly a better hitter, at SS.

Smalley went on to have a few good years hitting with the Yankees, but the defense of Randolph, Dent, Chambliss, and Nettles took a major hit. The pitchers always griped about grounders going through for hits that Bucky would make plays on, and DP's that instead became force outs. It was a noticeable drop off. I'm not saying Tejada is a bad SS with the glove, but Uribe is clearly a better defender by far with more range. Besides, who's to say Juan cannot be a .270 20HR, 80RBI guy? That's close to what he's averaged since he's been on the Sox, and that's more than fine for the position.

While I like Tejada, I don't see him fitting on this team, especially with three starters that rely heavilly on infield defense and two others who hold runners very poorly. We've tried the bashing line up for years up until 2004, and were not happy with the season result. Let's not fall into that trap again. I say we leave this one alone.

Brian26
01-01-2006, 11:51 AM
For a summary of why this statement is garbage, feel free to go read the Tejada thread in "What's the Score?"

I don't think the statement is incorrect. Tejada now has his guaranteed money, and now he's demanding a trade to a contender. Seems unjust to me.

SouthSideLove
01-01-2006, 12:40 PM
I truly wish that people on this post would stop holding out for Tejada. Yes, admittedly I would be excited were it to actually happen, but at the same time he is not a priority or a need for this team. This team spent all of last season reshaping itself into a pitching-defense run producing ball club. Tejada would not fit into the equation, the same way Magglio Ordonez & Carlos Lee didn't.

Let's quit dreaming about something we don't need, and focus on the jewels we have in the field already. This includes SS Juan Uribe, who's bat may not best Tejada's, but certainly provides a formidable glove in the field equalled to Tejada's.

lostletters
01-01-2006, 03:10 PM
I truly wish that people on this post would stop holding out for Tejada. Yes, admittedly I would be excited were it to actually happen, but at the same time he is not a priority or a need for this team. This team spent all of last season reshaping itself into a pitching-defense run producing ball club. Tejada would not fit into the equation, the same way Magglio Ordonez & Carlos Lee didn't.

Let's quit dreaming about something we don't need, and focus on the jewels we have in the field already. This includes SS Juan Uribe, who's bat may not best Tejada's, but certainly provides a formidable glove in the field equalled to Tejada's.

Actually, somebody did a range study of Juan Uribe compared to other shortstops. Uribe has SIGNIFICANTLY better range then all the other shortstops in MLB. I am not sure I want to get rid of a guy that strong up the middle regarding defense. I think shortstops of Uribe's defense caliber are tough to find.

Not saying Tejada is bad, because he is not, but I am wondering if it is even necessary. I say let JCs contract run out at the end of the year and shift B-Mac into the starting rotation in 2007. That way you have the flexibility to resign Mark Buerhle before he becomes a free agent. While JC may have the best stuff, pitchers with good stuff are not always consistant, just ask the flubs. However pitchers who are leaders and are consistant year in and year out the quality of Mark Buerhle are far and few between in MLB. I say having MB in the rotation is essential, and if signing JC or getting Tejada means we lose the flexibility to resign Buerhle, don't even bother doing either.

JB98
01-01-2006, 08:25 PM
There are no automatic entries into the postseason in any sports. The White Sox were the best team in baseball in 05, and they have become even better in 06. However, if the entire starting lineup and pitching staff gets injured, it won't make a bit of difference.
If there were such as thing as an automatic entry, it would be the Sox. They improved greatly, the Indians got worse, and the Twins spun their wheels. On paper, this Sox team looks like it might win 110-120 games.

Let's not get carried away here. I'd settle for 95 wins and another Central title.

SoxFan64
01-01-2006, 08:58 PM
I don't think the statement is incorrect. Tejada now has his guaranteed money, and now he's demanding a trade to a contender. Seems unjust to me.

I live out in Birdland. Tejada was promised that the O's would sign the players to compete with the Yanks and Red Sox. They have not. They have needed pitching for at least six years and since then all of their signings have been sluggers with the exception of Ponce.

The organization is a mess. The two headed GM did not work (surprise). The Nats moved 35 miles south of them. They have had horrible drafts and zero player development. Their attendance has dropped off by 1 million. It will be next to impossible for Baltimore to compete with Boston and New York in AL East for the foreseeable future.

I know Tejada signed his contract and now needs to live with it. But he sold a bill of goods from management.

A once proud franchise is a mess. If I was a O and could get out I would too.

Having said that I hope we keep Uribe. He is a better defender, cheaper, younger and a member of 05 Champs. I like Tejada but not enough to give up Uribe and Jose for him.

greenpeach
01-02-2006, 08:58 AM
boston.com adds this

the White Sox appear to be the latest Chicago team intent on making sure the former MVP lands in the Windy City. Fresh off inking Jon Garland (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-051228soxgarland,1,5169643.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines&ctrack=1&cset=true) to a three-year, $29 million deal yesterday (which compared to the incongruous contracts doled out to the likes of Kevin Millwood (http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/13505806.htm) and Overrated AJ Burnett, might be the best pitcher signing of the offseason), the White Sox might now go after the Orioles’ Tejada by dangling pitcher Jose Contreras and shortstop Juan Uribe in exchange.

http://www.boston.com/sports/nesn/wilbur/sports_blog/blog/2005/12/29/birds_of_a_whether/
I'd make that deal in a second. However, I'm sure the Orioles will want a couple of top prospects too. Can't say that I'd really blame them either. Tejada is a a former MVP & one of the true impact players in the game. If it turns out to be just Contreras & Uribe for Tejada then Angelos may be the worrst sports owner this side of Donald Sterling.