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View Full Version : Still Need a Lefty in the Pen


1917
12-29-2005, 09:56 AM
We still need a LHP in the pen to take some heat off of Cotts....What do you think of Arnie Munoz in relief?

RedHeadPaleHoser
12-29-2005, 09:57 AM
We still need a LHP in the pen to take some heat off of Cotts....What do you think of Arnie Munoz in relief?

Not too bad but what's the giveaway??

Lip Man 1
12-29-2005, 01:16 PM
What do you think of Arnie Munoz in relief?

I seriously try not to...

Lip

maurice
12-29-2005, 03:54 PM
Unless KW is still flying under the radar, it looks like it's gonna be Munoz v. cheapo free agents in spring training. I don't see Ozzie breaking camp with only 1 lefty.

cwsfannick
12-29-2005, 04:09 PM
I think i'd rather have the one legged, velocity deprived Kelly Wunsch than Arnie Munoz.

maurice
12-29-2005, 04:13 PM
I think i'd rather have the one legged, velocity deprived Kelly Wunsch than Arnie Munoz.
:tealpolice: :tealtutor:

cwsfannick
12-29-2005, 04:22 PM
:tealpolice: :tealtutor: Woops. Evidently, I don't know my colors. :redface:

cwsfannick
12-29-2005, 04:25 PM
What about Walker? I believe he was up with the big club a few times last year.

delben91
12-29-2005, 04:50 PM
What about Walker? I believe he was up with the big club a few times last year.

Yes, and most of those times were most regrettable.

KW will find someone, I have little doubt. With all he's done already this offseason, don't think he isn't after someone.

mcfish
12-29-2005, 04:55 PM
I think we definitely need a couple more good arms in the bullpen, but I don't see why one needs to be a lefty. I seriously hope Ozzie and KW don't send down a better right hander just to get another lefty in the pen. If Arnie Munoz earns a spot, then more power to him, but may the best relief pitcher win, not the best left handed relief pitcher.

mccoydp
12-29-2005, 04:57 PM
What about Walker? I believe he was up with the big club a few times last year.

Walker lived up to the better part of his last name more often than not last season...no thanks. Nice guy, but...

SOXSINCE'70
12-29-2005, 05:03 PM
What do you think of Arnie Munoz in relief?

I seriously try not to...

Lip

That would make 2 of us,Lip.:duck: :cower:His horrendous outing in Montreal in '04
put an end to my wish of seeing him in the starting rotation.

1917
12-29-2005, 06:06 PM
That would make 2 of us,Lip.:duck: :cower:His horrendous outing in Montreal in '04
put an end to my wish of seeing him in the starting rotation.

C'mon, we got to give the guy a little credit, it was his 1st big league start...what if we wrote off Cotts after his Yankee performance?

maurice
12-29-2005, 06:17 PM
There's a huge difference between starting a game as an extremely young rookie and pitching out of the pen as a lefty specialist a couple of years later.

C'mon, we got to give the guy a little credit, it was his 1st big league start...what if we wrote off Cotts after his Yankee performance?

At least some of the people who are writing off Munoz did write off Cotts. :kukoo:

Lip Man 1
12-29-2005, 10:29 PM
Kevin Walker is no longer in the Sox organization by the way...thank God.

Lip

Chez
12-30-2005, 11:15 AM
Kevin Walker is no longer in the Sox organization by the way...thank God.

Lip

Amen to that. Gone to the Rangers, I believe. Walker was the second coming of Brian Ward.

lostletters
12-30-2005, 11:23 AM
I think Munoz can earn the chance to be a bullpen pitcher with the White Sox. Many people are judging him by his first start as a rookie pitcher. That is NOT a good thing. Giving him a chance to earn the bullpen spot during the offseason is not a bad thing, he has two more years in triple A under his belt, and probably is more mature.

Chicken Dinner
12-30-2005, 12:34 PM
What about Walker? I believe he was up with the big club a few times last year.

Did you not watch any games last year when Walker pitched?? He Gone!!

White Sox Randy
12-30-2005, 01:01 PM
A quality veteran lefty is needed especially if they're gonna have Baj eating up some innings - we can't have two inexperienced and weak bullpen arms.

KyWhiSoxFan
12-30-2005, 01:15 PM
I don't think this is a very big issue (if this is the biggest issue we've got, we're blessed). We're talking about the 11th person in the pecking order (behind our starting 6 and the big 4 still left in the pen).

What I think they need for the 11th person is a long reliever (righty or lefty) who can eat some innings in blowout games to give everyone else in the pen some rest in those type of games.

KRS1
12-31-2005, 02:40 AM
I'm really surprised noone here has suggested Carlos Hernandez as a possible addition. It was only a couple years ago that he was dominating hitters with a mid 90's FB and was considered a top prospect in the Astros org. When we drafted Gio I immediately thought of Carlos b/c of the size factor, but he has filled out to about 200lbs now and might be less injury prone with that weight on his frame. At the very least he could be given a NRI to ST, another plus is he's pitching in the VWL and I'm sure Joey and Ozman have seen him throw as he seems to be getting his stuff back. Just thought I'd throw that out there for you to consider.

Banix12
12-31-2005, 03:44 AM
I'm really surprised noone here has suggested Carlos Hernandez as a possible addition. It was only a couple years ago that he was dominating hitters with a mid 90's FB and was considered a top prospect in the Astros org. When we drafted Gio I immediately thought of Carlos b/c of the size factor, but he has filled out to about 200lbs now and might be less injury prone with that weight on his frame. At the very least he could be given a NRI to ST, another plus is he's pitching in the VWL and I'm sure Joey and Ozman have seen him throw as he seems to be getting his stuff back. Just thought I'd throw that out there for you to consider.

I'm not exactly suprised.

He could certainly be given a Non-roster invite but looking at his stats last season at Round Rock I don't see how he would be any better an option than the guys currently in the sox orginization.

I was just reading a scouting report on him which said he doesn't have the mid-ninties fastball and barely tops 90 these days. He still doesn't have the ability to strike guys out he had before he got hurt judging from his numbers at AAA. Also he appeared to have a higher Walk rate last season than usual and he gave up a career high in Homeruns while pitching only 89 innings.

IMO, he just doesn't seem to be ready to come back to the majors yet. He seems like the kind of guy I would invite to spring training and offer him a AAA roster spot to see if he can work on regaining his form.

Chitown Hitmen
12-31-2005, 09:59 AM
What about Walker? I believe he was up with the big club a few times last year.

No, we can't put Walker up, he needs more little sprints with the WhiteSox and Triple-A before he actually get's good. And Hell no, not Arnie Munoz. But what about Al Reyes? He's pretty good.

santo=dorf
12-31-2005, 12:24 PM
Because of Munoz's terrible outing in Montreal, some Sox fans are too blind to see he was a decent reliever after he was recalled. IIRC, he had one bad outing in a relief role, and it was his final outing of the season.

I really can't stand it when some fans remember one outing froma guy and just throw him under the bus. :rolleyes: (See Vizcaino, Luis)

Chitown Hitmen
12-31-2005, 12:40 PM
Because of Munoz's terrible outing in Montreal, some Sox fans are too blind to see he was a decent reliever after he was recalled. IIRC, he had one bad outing in a relief role, and it was his final outing of the season.

I really can't stand it when some fans remember one outing froma guy and just throw him under the bus. :rolleyes: (See Vizcaino, Luis)

No, we jus take a look at overall stats for him, and we see not alot in this guy. Sure, he'll be decent, but not like Trevor Hoffman, or Eric Gagne. And no one threw Luis under the bus, cause he did good and he had a few bad outings, but he showed that up with some good relief effort. Yea, alot of our pitchers were better than h im in '05, but he still did good.

santo=dorf
12-31-2005, 12:50 PM
No, we jus take a look at overall stats for him, and we see not alot in this guy. Sure, he'll be decent, but not like Trevor Hoffman, or Eric Gagne. And no one threw Luis under the bus, cause he did good and he had a few bad outings, but he showed that up with some good relief effort. Yea, alot of our pitchers were better than h im in '05, but he still did good.
His overall stats are inflated due to that horrendous outing in Montreal.
Who said they were expecting Munoz to be the next Gagne? We just needa LOOGY, not a fireballer closer.

Is it that much of a stretch to think Munoz could be as decent as Mike Myers or Mike Stanton? Could Munoz be any worse against lefthanders than Marte alst season?

Banix12
12-31-2005, 08:27 PM
His overall stats are inflated due to that horrendous outing in Montreal.
Who said they were expecting Munoz to be the next Gagne? We just needa LOOGY, not a fireballer closer.

Is it that much of a stretch to think Munoz could be as decent as Mike Myers or Mike Stanton? Could Munoz be any worse against lefthanders than Marte alst season?

It isn't much of a stretch to me that he could be a league average lefty reliever.

In his 2004 callups, remove his awful debut, and his stats end up being. 11.1 innings pitched, 10 hits, 5 ER with an ERA of 3.97, 9 BB, 10 K. I'd say that is a pretty reasonable statline for a rookie callup out of the pen. Certainly plenty for room for improvement though. Particularly the Walks and Hits per innings pitched. Which if my math is correct was around 1.67 as a reliever.

I'd kind of like to see what his splits were last season at AAA, out of the pen vs. starting.

I wouldn't call him an ideal choice but I wouldn't throw him under the bus just yet, especially at his age.

DaleJRFan
12-31-2005, 08:32 PM
What about Walker? I believe he was up with the big club a few times last year.

Walker became a free agent after the season was over and he signed a minor league deal with the Rangers.

As for Munoz, his numbers were pretty good in relief in 2004. This is something cut and pasted from another thread:


He had pretty darn decent numbers as a reliever in 2004. Take away the 6/19 start (3.0 IP, 11 hits, 11 ER), his only 04 start, and he looked pretty good. He pitched in 9 games in September and surrendered only 2 runs over 10 innings (1.80 ERA in Sept), not TOOO bad... I suppose. Not as good as Cotts, though. Man, the 05 Sox bullpen really set the expectations high.

cwsfannick
12-31-2005, 10:28 PM
I did not realize Walker was no longer with the organization. Considering the post's regarding the current left handers on the 40 man roster, maybe the team breaks ST with Cotts as the lone southpaw in the pen.

SABRSox
12-31-2005, 10:35 PM
I'd be interested in seeing the LHP Brian Anderson get a look. Sure, he's pretty bad as a starter, but he might be the perfect guy situated for LOOGY work, and as a plus, he can hold runners on base with his pickoff move. That's a luxury out of the pen.

After that, it's the Alan Embree and Buddy Groom's of the world. Who knows, maybe one of them can be serviceable long enough to find a replacement.

buehrle4cy05
12-31-2005, 10:39 PM
Some possibilities:
Jason Christiansen- 6W, 1L, 5.36 ERA for the Giants in 2005
Vic Darensbourg- 1W, 1L, 2.82 ERA for the Tigers in 2005 (22.1 IP):duck:
Alan Embree
Buddy Groom- 1W, 1L, 4.70 & 4.91 ERA for Diamondbacks and Yankees in 2005 (25.2 IP)
John Halama- 0W, 3L, 4.64 ERA for the Nationals in 2005 (21.1 IP)
Felix Heredia

But the obvious answer is...
:kelly
"Hey Kenny! I'm availible!"

Banix12
01-01-2006, 04:18 AM
I'd be interested in seeing the LHP Brian Anderson get a look. Sure, he's pretty bad as a starter, but he might be the perfect guy situated for LOOGY work, and as a plus, he can hold runners on base with his pickoff move. That's a luxury out of the pen.

After that, it's the Alan Embree and Buddy Groom's of the world. Who knows, maybe one of them can be serviceable long enough to find a replacement.

I'd rather have a quality right hander take the last spot in the pen before installing a sub-par lefthander just for the sake of him being lefthanded. Though judging from the Kevin Walker fiasco last season I bet the sox don't agree with me.

Brian Anderson will get a chance to start again next season for some team. I think I heard Texas was looking at him to fill out the rotation as a fifth starter. He'd be a cheap, low-risk option for a lot of teams to fill out the rotation and if he fails you can boot him to the pen. As recently as 2003 he was a decent guy to have around. Some team will take the risk.

Banix12
01-01-2006, 04:59 AM
Some possibilities:
Jason Christiansen- 6W, 1L, 5.36 ERA for the Giants in 2005
Vic Darensbourg- 1W, 1L, 2.82 ERA for the Tigers in 2005 (22.1 IP):duck:
Alan Embree
Buddy Groom- 1W, 1L, 4.70 & 4.91 ERA for Diamondbacks and Yankees in 2005 (25.2 IP)
John Halama- 0W, 3L, 4.64 ERA for the Nationals in 2005 (21.1 IP)
Felix Heredia

But the obvious answer is...
:kelly
"Hey Kenny! I'm availible!"




Nobody there screams "sign me now". the Free Agent list right now is just crowded with guys who really deserve no more than a spring training invite.