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jehosaphat
12-28-2005, 07:46 PM
OK - here is a question about the ..... Cubs. Sorry I have to ask it here. I'd ask my Cub fan friends, but I fear the conversation would not be very enlightening.

I keep reading in the papers that Balt wants to trade them Tejada for Zambrano, plus some other guys. But, the Cubs see Zambrano as "untouchable" and they want to trade Prior instead. So, no deal.

I don't get it. I'd give Zambrano a slight edge over Prior, but only a slight edge. Prior's injury last year was of the freak variety, and he certainly showed that he can bounce back. He's young and he's not hurt. Also, if I had to take a bet on which one of these guys has the best chance to be truly great, I'd bet on Prior.

Assuming that Tejada is worth a starting pitcher (and I think he is one of the few position players who is), why would you not trade Zambrano for him - especially since you are willing to depart with Prior.

Please enlighten me on the mind set of our neighbors to the north.

SoxFan76
12-28-2005, 08:41 PM
Prior's injuries are "freak" injuries, but you can't deny the fact Zambrano has stayed away from injuries in general, real or "freak" ones.

buehrle4cy05
12-28-2005, 08:47 PM
Prior's injuries are "freak" injuries, but you can't deny the fact Zambrano has stayed away from injuries in general, real or "freak" ones.

Zambrano's had a couple of close calls with the elbow, IIRC. For somebody who puts that much effort into every single pitch, I'd worry about his arm condition down the road.

spiffie
12-28-2005, 08:55 PM
However, Prior has also had trouble with his elbow and his Achilles tendon, which aren't freakish injuries. I lurk on NSBB so I have something to read when I've finished everything on WSI, and there's a lot of posts there about the possibility that there are some dangerous flaws in Prior's mechanics.

SoxFan76
12-28-2005, 09:21 PM
However, Prior has also had trouble with his elbow and his Achilles tendon, which aren't freakish injuries. I lurk on NSBB so I have something to read when I've finished everything on WSI, and there's a lot of posts there about the possibility that there are some dangerous flaws in Prior's mechanics.

I've seen Daver say on more than one occasion that his mechanics are flawless. I believe he was a catcher, so I'll take his word on that.

I used to argue that Prior's mechanics were flawed like Wood's, but I just said that in a blind Cub-obsessed rage. I've grown since then. :D:

FarWestChicago
12-28-2005, 11:45 PM
OK - here is a question about the ..... Cubs. Sorry I have to ask it here.No, you didn't have to ask it here. This is a ****ing Sox board, Einstein. :rolleyes:

TheOldRoman
12-29-2005, 12:57 AM
I've seen Daver say on more than one occasion that his mechanics are flawless. I believe he was a catcher, so I'll take his word on that.

I used to argue that Prior's mechanics were flawed like Wood's, but I just said that in a blind Cub-obsessed rage. I've grown since then. :D:
If I'm not mistaken, I remember Daver sayind that Prior's mechanics WERE flawed. The press praises him as if his mechanics were perfect in every way, and I remember someone on here debunking that. What it Daver?

Banix12
12-29-2005, 01:28 AM
OK - here is a question about the ..... Cubs. Sorry I have to ask it here. I'd ask my Cub fan friends, but I fear the conversation would not be very enlightening.

I keep reading in the papers that Balt wants to trade them Tejada for Zambrano, plus some other guys. But, the Cubs see Zambrano as "untouchable" and they want to trade Prior instead. So, no deal.

I don't get it. I'd give Zambrano a slight edge over Prior, but only a slight edge. Prior's injury last year was of the freak variety, and he certainly showed that he can bounce back. He's young and he's not hurt. Also, if I had to take a bet on which one of these guys has the best chance to be truly great, I'd bet on Prior.

Assuming that Tejada is worth a starting pitcher (and I think he is one of the few position players who is), why would you not trade Zambrano for him - especially since you are willing to depart with Prior.

Please enlighten me on the mind set of our neighbors to the north.

I think if the Cubs had their druthers they would be sending Wood or Maddux packing but there is that whole matter of injury prone/no-trade clause with wood and Maddux is way too expensive for the marginal boost he provides a pitching staff.

I think the cubs think they need to make some kind of splash and they HAVE to make a deal. When you have to make a deal teams get into trouble.

I think the reasons that the cubs would be willing to trade Prior instead of Zambrano are...
1) The feeling that while Prior's injuries were largely flukey it is not a good thing to have so many arm problems at a young age, regardless of what causes them.
2) I think the biggest reason the cubs would dangle prior over Zambrano is that they probably believe that it will be much easier to resign Zambrano when his contract comes up than it would be for them to resign Prior.
3) Zambrano has been showing progress every season. His control seemed better last year and he set a personal best for innings pitched and stikeouts. He also appears to be a workhorse type pitcher while Prior seems like you have to treat him with Kid Gloves. Even when healthy the coaches seem to fret on every little pitch. He's got talent but he's spinning his wheels a bit.

All that said, I sincerely doubt any deal is going down. Hendry has shown no interest in relinquishing the best of his prospects like Pie and Hill and the Orioles interest in trying to trade Tejada appear to be waning.

SOXPHILE
12-29-2005, 08:52 AM
I think that Zambrano is a good canidate for injury too though. Anyone remember his "tennis elbow" he got last year from "being on the computer to much" ? He seems to throw ALOT of pitches, and pitchers like him who..ahem..are a bit overweight, tend to have back problems too. I've been telling Cub fans that he will be on the D.L. at least once (15 days ?) before the All-Star Break in 2006.

daveeym
12-29-2005, 10:15 AM
Zambrano has a major injury everyone is overlooking, his brain injury.

And on a little aside, mechanics only mean so much, pitching is the most unnatural motion in all of sports and you have to do it repitively. You're basically facing a losing battle no matter how good your mechanics are when you're throwing 90+. If it doesn't get ya in your playing days it'll get you in retirement.

Chicken Dinner
12-29-2005, 10:56 AM
OK - here is a question about the ..... Cubs. Sorry I have to ask it here. I'd ask my Cub fan friends, but I fear the conversation would not be very enlightening.

I keep reading in the papers that Balt wants to trade them Tejada for Zambrano, plus some other guys. But, the Cubs see Zambrano as "untouchable" and they want to trade Prior instead. So, no deal.

I don't get it. I'd give Zambrano a slight edge over Prior, but only a slight edge. Prior's injury last year was of the freak variety, and he certainly showed that he can bounce back. He's young and he's not hurt. Also, if I had to take a bet on which one of these guys has the best chance to be truly great, I'd bet on Prior.

Assuming that Tejada is worth a starting pitcher (and I think he is one of the few position players who is), why would you not trade Zambrano for him - especially since you are willing to depart with Prior.

Please enlighten me on the mind set of our neighbors to the north.

Who cares!!!:angry:

34 Inch Stick
12-29-2005, 02:19 PM
No, you didn't have to ask it here. This is a ****ing Sox board, Einstein. :rolleyes:

That's a little harsh, especially for a topic that is not in the section specifically devoted to white sox talk.

SOXintheBURGH
12-29-2005, 02:32 PM
Isn't Zambrano the guy who had an injury from using the computer too often?

Flight #24
12-29-2005, 02:54 PM
One thing that may be figuring in: The Cubs may think of the 2, Big Z may be an easier resign. The fact that Prior had some pretty strong demands in the first place may presage the type of demands you'll get when he hits FA in a couple of years(even though ironically that's a big part of how he ended up a Cub). I don't know about Zambrano, but he at least hasn't demonstrated the same degree of greed to date. Add that to the durability factor and if you're choosing between the 2, I can see them thinking Zambrano's more of a keeper.

Or maybe they're starting to believe Mike Marshall.....

SoxFan76
12-29-2005, 04:21 PM
That's a little harsh, especially for a topic that is not in the section specifically devoted to white sox talk.

FWC is on a roll lately.

jehosaphat
12-29-2005, 07:56 PM
Who cares!!!:angry:

Um, I guess Sox fans who are knowledgeable about baseball and like to follow the league. I've followed the Sox and major league baseball since I was kid (Billy Pierce et al.), and I've always been interested in the possibility of different teams trading high profile players.

Thanks to all those who responded in an intelligent manner. Good thoughts!

Daver
12-29-2005, 08:21 PM
If I'm not mistaken, I remember Daver sayind that Prior's mechanics WERE flawed. The press praises him as if his mechanics were perfect in every way, and I remember someone on here debunking that. What it Daver?

Mechanic's wise, he is a machine, his injuries come from poor preparation, and the fact that he is allowed to throw to many pitches without good preparation. With the right attitude, and a good pitching coach, he could be a perrenniel twenty game winner, his attitude is what I would question.

You're thinking of Kerry Wood on the flawed mechanic's comment coming from me, that guy has no mechanic's, pure train wreck.

Brian26
12-29-2005, 08:31 PM
Mechanic's wise, he is a machine, his injuries come from poor preparation, and the fact that he is allowed to throw to many pitches without good preparation. With the right attitude, and a good pitching coach, he could be a perrenniel twenty game winner, his attitude is what I would question.

You're thinking of Kerry Wood on the flawed mechanic's comment coming from me, that guy has no mechanic's, pure train wreck.

Anyone with an ounce of baseball knowledge can watch Kerry Wood's form and see something looks very flawed.

Daver- What's your take on Tom House? Prior was a House disciple when he came up, and I know House gets a lot of props from people as being a pitching guru. I'm not really up to speed with what House offers or why he gets the accolades he does.

Daver
12-29-2005, 08:40 PM
Anyone with an ounce of baseball knowledge can watch Kerry Wood's form and see something looks very flawed.

Daver- What's your take on Tom House? Prior was a House disciple when he came up, and I know House gets a lot of props from people as being a pitching guru. I'm not really up to speed with what House offers or why he gets the accolades he does.

I have no idea where House gets his rep from, he does little more than start with very talented pitchers to begin with.

FarWestChicago
12-30-2005, 12:37 AM
That's a little harsh, especially for a topic that is not in the section specifically devoted to white sox talk.No, it's not harsh at all. The goddamned Sox won the World Series. The Flubs aren't a pimple on the ass of progress. The Flubsessed are pathetic.

Banix12
12-30-2005, 01:07 AM
Anyone with an ounce of baseball knowledge can watch Kerry Wood's form and see something looks very flawed.

Daver- What's your take on Tom House? Prior was a House disciple when he came up, and I know House gets a lot of props from people as being a pitching guru. I'm not really up to speed with what House offers or why he gets the accolades he does.

House and Nolan Ryan wrote a book on pitching when Ryan was pitching for the Rangers and House was their pitching coach. I bought it for about 3 bucks at borders a couple of months ago. It seems House is mostly a proponent of weight training as well as some exercises to work on mechanics, like that towel thing that Prior does and in the book he says throwing a football helps improve baseball mechanics. Basically it seems like House likes to study pitching from a more techincal standpoint. When this book was published he owned a company that was basically dedicated to scientifically study pitching technique.

Wsoxmike59
12-31-2005, 09:26 AM
http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/columns/Acurrent/ladewski.htm

Paul Ladewski in the Daily Southtown had a column devoted to Mark Prior's "flawed" mechanics according to the devotee's of kinesiology major and former Dodger relief specialist Mike Marshall:


Don't take my word for it, though.

"Prior has a pitching motion that is very problematic, no question about it," Dr. Mike Marshall said. "If he doesn't change, he will never reach everything that he should be."

Mike Marshall? What does he know? What did the guy ever accomplish in the big leagues, anyway?

Actually, a lot. In 1974, Marshall became the first relief pitcher to capture the Cy Young Award. He pitched 208-plus innings in an unheard of 106 games that season. And he often pitched batting practice on his few days off.