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View Full Version : Best 1-2-3 combo in baseball?


Foulke You
12-27-2001, 02:08 PM
Much has been made in the Chicago media recently on the Cubs 1-2-3 combo of Sosa, McGriff, and Alou as being the best in the game which I think is ridiculous. They are a very solid 1-2-3 but certainly not the best. It got me thinking of 1-2-3 combos though. An argument could be made for many teams. The Cards have a solid combo of Edmonds, Pujols, and Drew. The Yanks have Jeter, Giambi, and Williams. Texas has Pay-Rod, I-Rod, and Palmero. Maybe I'm a little bias (OK, a lot) but I'd put our 3 of Valentin, Thomas, and Ordonez up there with anyone else's 1-2-3 combo. Any thoughts?


:manos :hurt :maggs
We can hang with anyone!

CerberusWG
12-27-2001, 02:14 PM
Instead of Valentin, how about Konerko? Has more pop, more lethal. Best in baseball? I do admit that the Alou, Sosa, Mcgriff 345 is pretty good, but they wont be productive because their 1,2, and 6-9 hitters are awful.

I think St Louis has the best one.

Foulke You
12-27-2001, 02:21 PM
You're right, an argument could be made for Konerko over Valentin. Valentin had 28 HR and 68 RBIs in a season plagued by nagging injuries where he sat for a couple weeks and was relegated to PH duties for a while. If Valentin had played the whole year, I think his RBI numbers would've been around 100 and his HRs would have surpassed Paulie. Plus, for clutch factor I have to go with Valentin. Not to say that Paulie didn't get clutch hits, it just seems that whenever the Sox needed a big hit, it was usually Valentin.

danman31
12-27-2001, 03:09 PM
That's very biased because ours doesn't stack up with the top group that you mentioned. Our 2-3-4 slots in the lineup are solid, but not quite top notch. Unless Jose proves his 2000 wasn't a fluke he isn't that good. His numbers haven't been spectacular outside of 2000. I hope he proves me wrong.Jose's career stats. (http://espn.go.com/mlb/profiles/stats/batting/4948.html) Anyway, the way McGriff played with the Cubs there is NO way the Cubs have the best trio of hitters in the league. As you guys said, it's not even the best in their division.

RedPinStripes
12-27-2001, 03:56 PM
:ray
"What about me?"

WinningUgly!
12-27-2001, 03:57 PM
Damon/Nomar/Manny...yikes!

danman31
12-27-2001, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by WinningUgly!
Damon/Nomar/Manny...yikes!
yeah, but we all know that Boston will find a way to not do good.

WinningUgly!
12-27-2001, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by danman31

yeah, but we all know that Boston will find a way to not do good.

Half the team always ends up hurt...sucks to be them.

CubKilla
12-27-2001, 04:48 PM
Also, remember who you quoted as saying the "best 123 in baseball"..... the Cubs-Never-Do-Nothing-Wrong Chicago media. While it is an improvement from last year, Soso, McWhiff, and Alou are not the best. Giambi, Jeter, and Williams are a better threat. So are Damon, Nomar, and Womanny in my opinion. But a Red Sox jersey seems to be comparable to a Cubs jersey when it comes to career suicide. Thomas, Maggs, and Paulie are just as clutch as a Soso, McWhiff, and Alou 123.

The Chicago media also has to realize that baseball games are played on a field for a reason. While it may look good on paper, there are no guarantees until gameday. We ALL remember the Thomas, Belle, Ventura lineup card as "can't miss" when it occured, but it wasn't as potent as expected. I predict similar bad tidings for Soso, McWhiff, and Alou. Afterall, wasn't McWhiff the Cubs ticket to the 2001 World Series?

hold2dibber
12-27-2001, 05:36 PM
Although the Sox 3-4-5 hitters next year will be very good (Thomas, Ordonez and Paulie), they don't measure up to the Cubs statistically. Using last year's stats (2000 for Big Hurt), the Sox trio averaged 35.33 HR, 118.33 RBI, and an OPS of .9437, while the Flubs trio averaged 40.67 HR, 123.33 RBI, and an OPS of 1.0177 (!). That said, our guys are younger than their guys and McGriff had been in a career decline until the first half of last year; that decline resumed in the second half of the season and I expect it to continue. More importantly, from top to bottom our lineup is much more potent than is the Cubs, or any AL central rival for that matter. The Cubs will crash and burn in 2002 because their bullpen is way too thin (Farnsworth is the only guy worth a damn) and beyond Lieber and Wood, their starting pitching is worthless. But the Sox need good years (13 plus wins and 170 plus innings) from two of the following: Garland, Parque, Biddle, Wright, and Glover, if they're going to make the postseason (or they need another starter).

CerberusWG
12-27-2001, 06:03 PM
Gonzalez Vaughn and Piazza wouldn't be that bad either.

Daver
12-27-2001, 08:07 PM
The Oakland A's with Zito,Mulder,and Hudson.

Jerry_Manuel
12-27-2001, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by daver
The Oakland A's with Zito,Mulder,and Hudson.

Is this some lame attempt at a joke?

Daver
12-27-2001, 10:02 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


Is this some lame attempt at a joke?

No,good pitching beats good hitting.
You could argue that the D'Backs have the best 1-2-3- with Johnson,Schilling,and Wells,but Wells has to prove to be healthy.

But then again what the hell do I know?

danman31
12-27-2001, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by daver
You could argue that the D'Backs have the best 1-2-3- with Johnson,Schilling,and Wells,but Wells has to prove to be healthy.
Wells may also not go there. Rumors say that he still wants to be a Yankee again.

Jerry_Manuel
12-27-2001, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by daver
No,good pitching beats good hitting.
You could argue that the D'Backs have the best 1-2-3- with Johnson,Schilling,and Wells,but Wells has to prove to be healthy.

But then again what the hell do I know?

I could also argue that Wells isn't on the Diamondbacks yet and may be back in a Yankee uniform.

Daver
12-27-2001, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I could also argue that Wells isn't on the Diamondbacks yet and may be back in a Yankee uniform.

I'll stick with the favorite on the odds with that one.

Nellie_Fox
12-28-2001, 02:27 AM
Originally posted by Foulke You
Much has been made in the Chicago media recently on the Cubs 1-2-3 combo of Sosa, McGriff, and Alou as being the best in the game which I think is ridiculous. They are a very solid 1-2-3 but certainly not the best.
Ummmm....Those are 3-4-5 hitters, not 1-2-3.

bc2k
12-30-2001, 03:10 AM
I know that I am not the only one to pick up on the 1-2-3 batting order. I think we all know Sosa, McGriff, and Alou are 3-4-5. Sosa isn't going to be leading off next year. Thank you hold2dibber for pointing that out. Now I am going to say something that might upset a few people reading this but you all know by know that I don't hold back. Alou is a better hitter than Konerko. Don't respond back with the age factor either. Alou grew up in a family of hitters, he can take Paulie to school any day. Dont even say I'm a Cubs fan. Alou is flat out better than Paul Konerko.

LongDistanceFan
12-30-2001, 03:58 AM
Originally posted by bc2k
I know that I am not the only one to pick up on the 1-2-3 batting order. I think we all know Sosa, McGriff, and Alou are 3-4-5. Sosa isn't going to be leading off next year. Thank you hold2dibber for pointing that out. Now I am going to say something that might upset a few people reading this but you all know by know that I don't hold back. Alou is a better hitter than Konerko. Don't respond back with the age factor either. Alou grew up in a family of hitters, he can take Paulie to school any day. Dont even say I'm a Cubs fan. Alou is flat out better than Paul Konerko. you are really something............ "don't respond ack." who do you really think you are telling people to respond back or not.......... i have not had a beef with you, but that statment irks me. ask mm23, or someone who made that statment several weeks ago.......... don't tell people what to do or what not to do.

longshot7
12-30-2001, 05:43 PM
Originally posted by CerberusWG
Gonzalez Vaughn and Piazza wouldn't be that bad either.

and Alomar too! Could be the best 3-4-5-6 in baseball, if Juan comes thru, and I hope he does so he's out of the AL.

Spiff
12-31-2001, 12:29 AM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
you are really something............ "don't respond ack." who do you really think you are telling people to respond back or not.......... i have not had a beef with you, but that statment irks me. ask mm23, or someone who made that statment several weeks ago.......... don't tell people what to do or what not to do.

It was me of course.

But I said don't bother with a million stats b/c you're not gonna change my mind. He said don't come back with the age factor, which is a number. I dunno they seem like different situations.

LongDistanceFan
12-31-2001, 02:24 AM
Originally posted by Wh1teSox00


It was me of course.

But I said don't bother with a million stats b/c you're not gonna change my mind. He said don't come back with the age factor, which is a number. I dunno they seem like different situations. ok....... different word, same intent. i took as his word is final and we have no right to debate it with him........

bc2k
01-01-2002, 02:39 AM
What I meant by dont respond back was dont use alou's age as a factor in comparison to paul konerko, our number 5 hitter. My point was alou is the better lifetime hitter than paulie. I am not just talking about this year, but alou and konerko over their respective careers. In respond to what you were saying about that other guy who made a similar statement about "dont respond back", I welcome stats that prove my statement wrong. Hey, if you can bring concrete evidence saying paul konerko is a better hitter than alou, please tell me about it. My opinion on this isn't written in stone, maybe i am overlooking something. I'm just a fan talking baseball. But i fully meant "dont respond back" saying i am a cubs fan.

Daver
01-01-2002, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by bc2k
What I meant by dont respond back was dont use alou's age as a factor in comparison to paul konerko, our number 5 hitter. My point was alou is the better lifetime hitter than paulie. I am not just talking about this year, but alou and konerko over their respective careers. In respond to what you were saying about that other guy who made a similar statement about "dont respond back", I welcome stats that prove my statement wrong. Hey, if you can bring concrete evidence saying paul konerko is a better hitter than alou, please tell me about it. My opinion on this isn't written in stone, maybe i am overlooking something. I'm just a fan talking baseball. But i fully meant "dont respond back" saying i am a cubs fan.

:troll

bc2k
01-01-2002, 02:59 AM
Hey daver!, thanks for the intelligent baseball conversation. With those witty remarks, I cannot think where us sox fans would be without you honoring us with your posts. I was, and still am looking forward to some pro-konerko remarks with statistics, but unfortunately you let us down daver. Oh, and thanks for taking up the the majority of every page with your Hilarious picture of a troll. Later alligator, Mr. Daver

Daver
01-01-2002, 03:02 AM
Originally posted by bc2k
Hey daver!, thanks for the intelligent baseball conversation. With those witty remarks, I cannot think where us sox fans would be without you honoring us with your posts. I was, and still am looking forward to some pro-konerko remarks with statistics, but unfortunately you let us down daver. Oh, and thanks for taking up the the majority of every page with your Hilarious picture of a troll. Later alligator, Mr. Daver

:troll

LongDistanceFan
01-01-2002, 03:06 AM
Originally posted by daver


:troll *****

bc2k
01-01-2002, 03:13 AM
Hey daver, alligator

Daver
01-01-2002, 03:14 AM
Originally posted by bc2k
Hey daver, alligator

:troll

bc2k
01-01-2002, 03:21 AM
Hey alligator, if you want to have a war with words, bring it on. If you choose to go the 8 year old girl route and post pictures of the same troll, then I'll play that game too. I can find a thousand pictures of alligators on the web. I will not post pictures for no purpose (again the 8 year old girl technique) because the other members dont want to see the website filled with silly pictures. later alligator named daver

Daver
01-01-2002, 03:24 AM
:troll

Spiff
01-01-2002, 03:34 AM
Originally posted by bc2k
Hey alligator, if you want to have a war with words, bring it on. If you choose to go the 8 year old girl route and post pictures of the same troll, then I'll play that game too. I can find a thousand pictures of alligators on the web. I will not post pictures for no purpose (again the 8 year old girl technique) because the other members dont want to see the website filled with silly pictures. later alligator named daver

bc2k i hate to be the bearer of bad news but your goose was cooked the minute you started picking fights with people for no reason. Maybe there's some intelligent stuff yet to come from you but you are really fighting an uphill battle. If I were you I'd stop getting in fights. Nobody is going to give you the benefit of the doubt after the first impression you made. Calling people out doesn't help and it doesn't establish credibility.

Not that I have any, but they let me rattle on. It's a tradeoff.

Nellie_Fox
01-01-2002, 03:39 AM
Originally posted by bc2k
Hey alligator, if you want to have a war with words, bring it on. If you choose to go the 8 year old girl route and post pictures of the same troll, then I'll play that game too. I can find a thousand pictures of alligators on the web. I will not post pictures for no purpose (again the 8 year old girl technique) because the other members dont want to see the website filled with silly pictures. later alligator named daver
You have no prayer if you are going to try to speak for the rest of the membership against Daver. You have contributed nothing except criticism of those who were regulars on this board long before you ever got here. Pack it in.

LongDistanceFan
01-01-2002, 03:42 AM
Originally posted by Nellie_Fox

You have no prayer if you are going to try to speak for the rest of the membership against Daver. You have contributed nothing except criticism of those who were regulars on this board long before you ever got here. Pack it in. posting tons of pic as you said............ will get you kick off faster than fighting.

bc2k
01-01-2002, 04:33 AM
Wh1tesox00, well said. point taken. But let me ask you to review the posts i made, and the responses by daver. I didnt start this fight. I learned my lesson from redpinstripes. Daver came after me. After what i think was a nice baseball related post, Daver comes at me with this grudge he has against me, although redpinstripes and I have moved on. On a side note, what kind of credibility does a man have when his response to every topic is with a picture of a childrens toy.

RedPinStripes
01-01-2002, 05:04 AM
Originally posted by bc2k
Wh1tesox00, well said. point taken. But let me ask you to review the posts i made, and the responses by daver. I didnt start this fight. I learned my lesson from redpinstripes. Daver came after me. After what i think was a nice baseball related post, Daver comes at me with this grudge he has against me, although redpinstripes and I have moved on. On a side note, what kind of credibility does a man have when his response to every topic is with a picture of a childrens toy.

You'll learn more as you go on here, The troll pic is meant to piss people off. You will learn that there are higly skilled smart asses here. Not that I'm one of them.

Jerry_Manuel
01-01-2002, 05:07 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes
You'll learn more as you go on here, The troll pic is meant to piss people off. You will learn that there are higly skilled smart asses here. Not that I'm one of them.

He'll learn something new everyday. Skilled smart asses? I think you meant there are some asses here. :D:

PaleHoseGeorge
01-01-2002, 10:06 AM
For 1-2-3 players (as opposed to 3-4-5 power hitters), I would stack our guys against anyone.

:ray :manos :hurt
"We led the league in run production in 2000."

:jerry
"I had a different agenda for 2001."

:ohno
"We know."

:reinsy :KW
"We've learned our lessons."

:fans
"Are we feeling warm and fuzzy yet?"

Spiff
01-01-2002, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by bc2k
Wh1tesox00, well said. point taken. But let me ask you to review the posts i made, and the responses by daver. I didnt start this fight. I learned my lesson from redpinstripes. Daver came after me. After what i think was a nice baseball related post, Daver comes at me with this grudge he has against me, although redpinstripes and I have moved on. On a side note, what kind of credibility does a man have when his response to every topic is with a picture of a childrens toy.

Like RPS said he did it to piss you off. And it worked. He didn't like that you came on like that. Daver has credibility though.

Move on from it.

SOXSINCE'70
01-01-2002, 01:40 PM
I agree with JV and Maggs,but I'd put Konerko ahead of "The Big Skirt". :)