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WhiteSoxFan84
12-22-2005, 04:36 AM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5189112
Ken Rosenthal with the story, he's a solid rumor guy. His stuff is usually right now. USUALLY.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-22-2005, 04:39 AM
I can't edit for some reason, but here are a few interesting pieces...


The Cubs, aggressively pursuing a blockbuster trade for Orioles shortstop Miguel Tejada, are willing to part with a top starting pitcher, most likely right-hander Mark Prior, sources tell FOXSports.com.

The talks are stalled, a source says, over the Cubs' insistence that the Orioles give up left-hander Erik Bedard along with Tejada and the Cubs' refusal to include top outfield prospect Felix Pie or a top pitching prospect in such a deal.


The Cubs and Orioles also have engaged in three-way discussions with the Red Sox in which Tejada would go to the Cubs and Ramirez to the Orioles, according to another source. The package the Sox would receive is unclear, but could include Prior, shortstop Ronny Cedeno and center fielder Corey Patterson.


The White Sox, willing to move right-hander Jon Garland or right-hander Jose Contreras, are another team believed to be interested in Tejada. Both Garland and Contreras, however, are eligible for free agency at the end of the season. Under Angelos, the Orioles have routinely balked at acquiring potential free agents without the assurance of signing them long-term.

soxwon
12-22-2005, 08:13 AM
cubs would be fools to deal prior.

spawn
12-22-2005, 08:20 AM
cubs would be fools to deal prior.
Your point?:D:

1951Campbell
12-22-2005, 08:51 AM
cubs would be fools to deal prior.

...which is precisely why this deal will get done! :D:

DumpJerry
12-22-2005, 08:52 AM
cubs would be fools to deal prior.
Sorry, but I disagree. They would be utter blithering idiots to trade Prior or Zambrano. Calling them "fools" would be complimentary.

If 2005 taught the world anything, it is starting pitching is the foundation for winning. If you cannot keep the other team's run off the board, you can't win no matter how much offense you've got. With all the talk of the "speedy" outfield the Cubs seem to be acquiring, I keep asking myself when was the last time a team won the World Series with a speedy outfield? How does a speedy outfield prevent an opponent from advancing the runner with stolen bases and sacrifices?

Oh well, all signs are pointing towards the further marginalizing of the Cubs and sustained dominance of the White Sox!:D:

veeter
12-22-2005, 09:05 AM
I agree that dealing either Prior or Zambrano would be a death blow. That's because, despite popular opinion, starting pitching is the cubs' weakness. Those two being the best components. We've gone over, at nauseum on this site, the truth about the over rated staff up north. Put it this way, most of the pressure will fall on Howry and Eyre. I would have nightmares if my season depended on that.

veeter
12-22-2005, 09:08 AM
Let me just add, the fact that the cubs are even TALKING about moving Prior proves their desperation, and heat they feel from the Sox success. I love it.

Fredsox
12-22-2005, 09:18 AM
Let me just add, the fact that the cubs are even TALKING about moving Prior proves their desperation, and heat they feel from the Sox success. I love it.

I agree. There is pressure on them to do SOMETHING after "losing" Furcal, so if they offer either of their 2 top starters to Baltimore for Tejada they will accomplish 2 things: 1-Improve their offense and defense 2- decimate their starting pitching which is their only strength. The end result is that they will become the Orioles.

rocky biddle
12-22-2005, 09:43 AM
3 team deal- Orioles get Garland, Sox get Zambrano, cubs get Tejada

But seriously, we know by now it's not about the best fit or best outcome on the northside, it's about the name on the back of the jersey. Tejada will give the sheep a new superstar to idolize like they did with sosa. I've also read some reports that Tejada grew up a cub fan...

veeter
12-22-2005, 09:55 AM
3 team deal- Orioles get Garland, Sox get Zambrano, cubs get Tejada

But seriously, we know by now it's not about the best fit or best outcome on the northside, it's about the name on the back of the jersey. Tejada will give the sheep a new superstar to idolize like they did with sosa. I've also read some reports that Tejada grew up a cub fan... Great point and so true. I also really like the teal trade. If we had to lose Jon, Zambrano would thrive on the southside.

Tekijawa
12-22-2005, 09:56 AM
Isn't Prior a FA after this season? I believe this is the last year in his 5 year 10 Million dollar contract... Why would they include that about Garland and not Prior?

Tragg
12-22-2005, 10:00 AM
I've also read some reports that Tejada grew up a cub fan...Well of course he did - who didn't?
There's a bar down here that has Cubs bleachers. I had always planned on going there and watching the WS in my Sox gear in that damn place. Unfortunately, Katrina ended that possibility.

Let the Cubs do that deal and send them back Garland for a year for Pye and that stud pitching prospect they have.

veeter
12-22-2005, 10:03 AM
This is just a guess, but even though Prior's contract is running out, (a very rare contract at that), I think he's still in the arbitration stage. Observe that guy closely. He's protecting his arm for the big pay day. He won't pitch with a hang nail. Now that it's out there that the cubs would actually consider moving him, I think HE would now consider leaving the cozy confines. I see the Yankees offering him $200 million some day.

itsnotrequired
12-22-2005, 10:03 AM
Isn't Prior a FA after this season? I believe this is the last year in his 5 year 10 Million dollar contract... Why would they include that about Garland and not Prior?

Prior is arbitration eligible after 2006. 2006 is the last year of his contract.

Dan Mega
12-22-2005, 10:11 AM
When Prior is healthy and on he is one of the best pitchers in the game. And he is so young.

I would want more than just Tejada for Mark Prior.

peeonwrigley
12-22-2005, 10:14 AM
But seriously, we know by now it's not about the best fit or best outcome on the northside, it's about the name on the back of the jersey.

But Trusty Dusty and the boys had the names removed from the back last year... that proves how team oriented they are...

veeter
12-22-2005, 10:16 AM
When Prior is healthy and on he is one of the best pitchers in the game. And he is so young.

I would want more than just Tejada for Mark Prior.But he's never healthy. Shouldn't that factor in?

getonbckthr
12-22-2005, 10:19 AM
Obviously with the ok of Baltimore and the Cubs, why can't the Sox give JG 5/60 mil and Jose like 4/40. Then after fitting Baltimore's requirements of non-free agent pitchers work out a 3 way where the Cubs get Bedard and Tejada, Sox get Prior and Baltimore gets both Jose and JG. The Cubs get what they want to replace Prior, Baltimore gets 2 very good pitchers opposed to 1 great pitcher. As far as the Sox go we get Prior, who after his contract is up and after Freddy's is up we could throw 15 million at Prior and let Freddy go with one of our prospects filling the 5th spot. Make it happen Kenny.

rocky biddle
12-22-2005, 10:21 AM
Proving my point Silvy, the prototypical yuppie cub fan, just said that he'd give up prior or zambrano for the chance to have "a superstar playing shortstop at wrigley next year." Chalk up another idiot in the Eirca Sillyass school of thought.

veeter
12-22-2005, 10:21 AM
Obviously with the ok of Baltimore and the Cubs, why can't the Sox give JG 5/60 mil and Jose like 4/40. Then after fitting Baltimore's requirements of non-free agent pitchers work out a 3 way where the Cubs get Bedard and Tejada, Sox get Prior and Baltimore gets both Jose and JG. The Cubs get what they want to replace Prior, Baltimore gets 2 very good pitchers opposed to 1 great pitcher. As far as the Sox go we get Prior, who after his contract is up and after Freddy's is up we could throw 15 million at Prior and let Freddy go with one of our prospects filling the 5th spot. Make it happen Kenny.To be honest I'd want Zambrano more than Prior. We give up two durable studs for a primadona who always hurt? Don't think so.

The Deacon
12-22-2005, 10:22 AM
But he's never healthy. Shouldn't that factor in?

Given the choice, I'd take Tejada over Prior. An MVP at the most important position in the game (SS) or a guy who plays once every 5 days?
It's an age old question though, stud position player or stud SP. I can see both sides of the coin.

veeter
12-22-2005, 10:25 AM
Given the choice, I'd take Tejada over Prior. An MVP at the most important position in the game (SS) or a guy who plays once every 5 days?
It's an age old question though, stud position player or stud SP. I can see both sides of the coin. Put it this way if the cubs lose prior but get Tejada, they lose 90 games with what's left of a pitching staff.

getonbckthr
12-22-2005, 10:27 AM
To be honest I'd want Zambrano more than Prior. We give up two durable studs for a primadona who always hurt? Don't think so.
I don't want anything to do with Zambrano until he gets his attitude in check. He's a 20-something year old who bitches and moans about everything and anything that will lead to umpires basically taking the stand of "hey punk shut your mouth. or get nothing." The kid has to realize the umps control his future, and by continually objected to their calls and making asses out of them he will never earn the respect that say Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine had for all those years.

getonbckthr
12-22-2005, 10:30 AM
Given the choice, I'd take Tejada over Prior. An MVP at the most important position in the game (SS) or a guy who plays once every 5 days?
It's an age old question though, stud position player or stud SP. I can see both sides of the coin.
It comes to this what would you rather have:
Cedeno at SS with SP's: Prior, wood/Rusch, Zambrano, Maddux and Williams
or
Tejada at SS with SP's: Bedard, Wood/Rusch, Zambrano, Maddux and Williams.
With Hill eventually replacing Maddux.

veeter
12-22-2005, 10:34 AM
I don't want anything to do with Zambrano until he gets his attitude in check. He's a 20-something year old who bitches and moans about everything and anything that will lead to umpires basically taking the stand of "hey punk shut your mouth. or get nothing." The kid has to realize the umps control his future, and by continually objected to their calls and making asses out of them he will never earn the respect that say Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine had for all those years.I'm well aware of Zambrano's anticts, but he's never misses a start. You have to remember he plays for Dusty Baker. Noone is accountable for their actions on that team. Ozzie would straiten that guy right up. I want no part of mister arrogant Prior.

gf2020
12-22-2005, 10:37 AM
If you believe they are serious about spending the same as last year, the Cubs still have 10 mil to play around with. If the opportunity arose, I *would* trade Prior or Zambrano for Tejada and then turn around and sign Jeff Weaver or Kevin Millwood. You would have little drop off pitching wise and have a huge upgrade offensively.

getonbckthr
12-22-2005, 10:39 AM
If you believe they are serious about spending the same as last year, the Cubs still have 10 mil to play around with. If the opportunity arose, I *would* trade Prior or Zambrano for Tejada and then turn around and sign Jeff Weaver or Kevin Millwood. You would have little drop off pitching wise and have a huge upgrade offensively.
In no way is Jeff Weaver as good as Prior or Zambrano.

Tekijawa
12-22-2005, 10:45 AM
If you believe they are serious about spending the same as last year, the Cubs still have 10 mil to play around with. If the opportunity arose, I *would* trade Prior or Zambrano for Tejada and then turn around and sign Jeff Weaver or Kevin Millwood. You would have little drop off pitching wise and have a huge upgrade offensively.

Tejada's Check - Prior's check = MORE THAN 10 MILLION

Dan Mega
12-22-2005, 10:50 AM
But he's never healthy. Shouldn't that factor in?

I don't know his history that well but I know he has had a full season under his belt once. Another time was a legit shoulder injury. And last season was because he got nailed in the elbow with a line drive shot- it was a fluke.

I'd take Prior on the Sox if the Cubs were willing to part with him for say...a bag of peanuts:D:

veeter
12-22-2005, 11:04 AM
Prior's had achilles tendon problems and elbow pain issues, not related to getting nailed by the rocket, seed, pea, lazer, pill, smash he gave up last year.

gr8mexico
12-22-2005, 11:20 AM
The Cubs can easily improve there team with the players left in the FA market. The Cubs rotation would improve alot if they signed Wade Miller fill there bullpen holes with either Chad Bradford,Matt Herges, or Octavio Dotel. Then the Cubs would be able to use some of there prospects to get Barry Zito because if the A's do trade Zito the A's wont send him to an AL team. The Cubs would have a rotation of 1.Prior 2.Zombrano 3.Zito 4.W.Miller 5.Maddux Then the Cubs would put Wood to be the Closer just for the '06 season. If the Cubs did the right thing and set there lineup right they could have something good. 1.Pierre 2.Hairston 3.D.Lee 4.Ramirez 5.Murton 6.Jones 7.Barrett 8.N.Perez

munchman33
12-22-2005, 11:36 AM
Anybody else worried about that Red Sox 3-way option? A rotation with Schilling-Prior-Beckett would be a nightmare in a short series.

zach23
12-22-2005, 11:47 AM
Anybody else worried about that Red Sox 3-way option? A rotation with Schilling-Prior-Beckett would be a nightmare in a short series.

Yeah, for Red Sox fans when all three are sitting on the DL for the post season. :D:

gr8mexico
12-22-2005, 11:54 AM
Anybody else worried about that Red Sox 3-way option? A rotation with Schilling-Prior-Beckett would be a nightmare in a short series. LOL LOL LOL I would love that matchup LOL LOL LOL

Hangar18
12-22-2005, 12:00 PM
But seriously, we know by now it's not about the best fit or best outcome on the northside, it's about the name on the back of the jersey. Tejada will give the sheep a new superstar to idolize like they did with sosa. I've also read some reports that Tejada grew up a cub fan...

Good thing the **** took their names off the backs of jerseys.
As for reports Tejada grew up a cub fan .......i'll let Jabrch or Old Roman handle that one ...........

The Deacon
12-22-2005, 12:01 PM
Anybody else worried about that Red Sox 3-way option? A rotation with Schilling-Prior-Beckett would be a nightmare in a short series.

Boston doesnt have a SS or CF. Maybe difficult, but not that worried. I'm more worried about the Yankees lineup and the possibility that thier pitching staff rebounds. It's going to be devastating.

Damon
Jeter
AROD
Sheff
Giambi
Matsui
Posada
DH TBD
Cano

:o:

INSox56
12-22-2005, 12:02 PM
If Bedard is anywhere involved in the Cubs necessities in the deal there's no way that they're getting tejada. Hendry is a moron (or thinks the Os are morons) if they're going to give up Tejada - best offensive SS in majors - AND Bedard - one of the best young pitchers out there prior to his injury last year - for Prior. That's insanity. Oh well, more idiotic things have happened in the past I guess.

The Dude
12-22-2005, 12:02 PM
If you believe they are serious about spending the same as last year, the Cubs still have 10 mil to play around with. If the opportunity arose, I *would* trade Prior or Zambrano for Tejada and then turn around and sign Jeff Weaver or Kevin Millwood. You would have little drop off pitching wise and have a huge upgrade offensively. Millwood would be a very servicable replacement in that rotation. I think they need him regardless of whether Prior is traded or not.

The Dude
12-22-2005, 12:06 PM
I don't know his history that well but I know he has had a full season under his belt once. Another time was a legit shoulder injury. And last season was because he got nailed in the elbow with a line drive shot- it was a fluke.

I'd take Prior on the Sox if the Cubs were willing to part with him for say...a bag of peanuts:D: Come on, that's just a biased Cub hater talk. Prior seems to be healthy these days besides that freak come backer and I guarantee he is no more arrogant that our very own Jon Garland. Given the choice, Prior>>Garland.

Hangar18
12-22-2005, 12:07 PM
Now that it's out there that the cubs would actually consider moving him, I think HE would now consider leaving the cozy confines. I see the Yankees offering him $200 million some day.

Ahhh, I remember saying The Messiah would be the 1st $100Million Pitcher,
or he would be a Yankee when he goes into the HOF.

Hangar18
12-22-2005, 12:09 PM
If Bedard is anywhere involved in the Cubs necessities in the deal there's no way that they're getting tejada. Hendry is a moron (or thinks the Os are morons) if they're going to give up Tejada - best offensive SS in majors - AND Bedard - one of the best young pitchers out there prior to his injury last year - for Prior. That's insanity. Oh well, more idiotic things have happened in the past I guess.

The Orioles are the Idiots that Took Sosa remember? Man how I wished the **** wouldve been stuck with his contract

Hangar18
12-22-2005, 12:13 PM
Oh, and WHEW, Im glad I didnt start this thread ....:D:

INSox56
12-22-2005, 12:14 PM
The Orioles are the Idiots that Took Sosa remember? Man how I wished the **** wouldve been stuck with his contract

LOL sigh....true, true And signed BJ Ryan for...let's keep it at "too much".

santo=dorf
12-22-2005, 12:21 PM
Anybody else worried about that Red Sox 3-way option? A rotation with Schilling-Prior-Beckett would be a nightmare in a short series.

Maybe in the rehab league.

TheOldRoman
12-22-2005, 12:52 PM
Ahhh, I remember saying The Messiah would be the 1st $100Million Pitcher,
or he would be a Yankee when he goes into the HOF.
1) Mike Hampton has has long been the first $100 million pitcher.
2) They dont let people into the hall of fame with a bunch of ten win seasons. They don't let people into the hall of fame for pitching perfect simulated games. Prior won't even come close to 200 career wins.

mjmcend
12-22-2005, 01:01 PM
LOL sigh....true, true And signed BJ Ryan for...let's keep it at "too much".

The Blue Jays signed BJ Ryan, not the O's.

BigMo
12-22-2005, 01:02 PM
How could you possibly trade Jesus Christ our Savior for Miguel Tejada.

peeonwrigley
12-22-2005, 01:10 PM
Boston doesnt have a SS or CF. Maybe difficult, but not that worried. I'm more worried about the Yankees lineup and the possibility that thier pitching staff rebounds. It's going to be devastating.

Damon
Jeter
AROD
Sheff
Giambi
Matsui
Posada
DH TBD
Cano

:o:

Yanks also re-signed Bernie Williams. Per their website, he'll play the Ruben Sierra role from last year - and I would think he'll see some significant time at DH.

Hangar18
12-22-2005, 01:13 PM
1) Mike Hampton has has long been the first $100 million pitcher.
2) They dont let people into the hall of fame with a bunch of ten win seasons. They don't let people into the hall of fame for pitching perfect simulated games. Prior won't even come close to 200 career wins.


Oooops, I meant **** first $100 pitcher/player
Speaking of which, havnt seen a Carol Slezak/We-love-messiah pieces lately

SOXPHILE
12-22-2005, 01:30 PM
Don't forget everyone, we celebrate Mark Prior's birthday this Sunday.....

kittle42
12-22-2005, 01:35 PM
Don't forget everyone, we celebrate Mark Prior's birthday this Sunday.....

I don't buy the Messiah aspect of Priormas. But I do enjoy the secular Dusty Claus

Craig Grebeck
12-22-2005, 01:44 PM
1) Mike Hampton has has long been the first $100 million pitcher.
2) They dont let people into the hall of fame with a bunch of ten win seasons. They don't let people into the hall of fame for pitching perfect simulated games. Prior won't even come close to 200 career wins.
Come on, the guy's still young. He had a freak injury last year. And as long as he stays healthy, he should average 15-17 wins a year and a 3.20 era. The moronic Cub hating on this board is stopping people from seeing the fact that Prior is a fantastic young pitcher.

Hangar18
12-22-2005, 01:56 PM
The moronic Cub hating on this board is stopping people from seeing the fact that Prior is a fantastic young pitcher.

he heh. Glad I didnt start this thread

slavko
12-22-2005, 02:04 PM
I don't want anything to do with Zambrano until he gets his attitude in check. He's a 20-something year old who bitches and moans about everything and anything that will lead to umpires basically taking the stand of "hey punk shut your mouth. or get nothing." The kid has to realize the umps control his future, and by continually objected to their calls and making asses out of them he will never earn the respect that say Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine had for all those years.

Respect? Respect? Those two had a strike zone that went from batter's box to batter's box! OK, so did some other pitchers in those years until MLB fixed it. Who was the pitcher that got a strike call on a ball that was 8 inches outside when the Robbie Alomar spitting incidient took place?

veeter
12-22-2005, 02:04 PM
Ahhh, I remember saying The Messiah would be the 1st $100Million Pitcher,
or he would be a Yankee when he goes into the HOF.Trust me when I say I thought of this myself.

kittle42
12-22-2005, 02:33 PM
The moronic Cub hating on this board is stopping people from seeing the fact that Prior is a fantastic young pitcher.

Those are the same people who are so blinded by their Sox loyalty (a *much* lesser "offense") that they say the first player they'd choose to start a ballclub would be Mark Buehrle.

I hate the Cubs, but can detach myself from that to rationally discuss baseball.

You are right, as is whoever said that it is the Cubs, and not the O's, who should be asking for more in this exchange. I would not trade Prior or Zambrano straight up for Tejada.

HomeFish
12-22-2005, 02:36 PM
If the Orioles can be convinced to include Bedard (which, given a certain north side GM's penchant for highway robbery, is highly likely) then this has the potential to be a large improvement for that team up there. Bedard has shown flashes of brilliance in the major leagues and should not be scoffed at.

1917
12-22-2005, 02:41 PM
If the Orioles can be convinced to include Bedard (which, given a certain north side GM's penchant for highway robbery, is highly likely) then this has the potential to be a large improvement for that team up there. Bedard has shown flashes of brilliance in the major leagues and should not be scoffed at.

He shut us down back in May at the Cell....he was having an All Star year before he got hurt...

Walkman
12-22-2005, 04:00 PM
Come on, the guy's still young. He had a freak injury last year. And as long as he stays healthy, he should average 15-17 wins a year and a 3.20 era. The moronic Cub hating on this board is stopping people from seeing the fact that Prior is a fantastic young pitcher.

His one career shuout in 2003 was quite fantastic.

BNLSox
12-22-2005, 04:40 PM
I didnt read through this all as there is a lot of unnecessary cub bashing go on (when you're number one you really needn't throw rocks down on the peons below... just enjoy the view from up here people!)

Anyway I suppose since this is in whats the score and not talking baseball I should expect such.

My comment is that if Prior is a FA after this year and the belief is that he will never be truly healthy that this really is a decent move. Frankly the Cubs are not going to be a contender any way you slice it in 2006 unless their pitching staff gets AMAZINGLY healthy overnight. Wood and Prior are never healthy and Zambrano, Mitre, and Maddux(in 2006 form) cannot carry a team to the post season with many spot starts from a depleted farm system.

If the team wants one of the best infields in the NL and wants to start spending money on big name FA pitching over the next two or three years they could probably contend with a Derek Lee, Ramirez, and Tejada led team as long as they got two or three bonafide starters during this season and over the next off season.

Either way I've put too much thought into this now and I'd like to go back to watching my 2005 World Series DVD.

Happy holidays all!

SouthSide_Hitman
12-22-2005, 04:41 PM
Not the same Mark Prior you invented the game of baseball (according to sCrUB fans) ???.

TheOldRoman
12-22-2005, 04:46 PM
Come on, the guy's still young. He had a freak injury last year. And as long as he stays healthy, he should average 15-17 wins a year and a 3.20 era. The moronic Cub hating on this board is stopping people from seeing the fact that Prior is a fantastic young pitcher.
The moronic accusations from certain people on this board blind them. I didn't say Prior sucks. He is a great pitcher*.

*when healthy

Prior is a great pitcher when he is healthy. He can be absolutely dominant. However, Prior is not healthy. He had a freak injury last year, and the year before, and the year before that. The guy just seem snake-bitten. If he could stay healthy for an entire year, he would most likely put up 15-20 wins, but there is no indication whatsoever that he would be able to stay healthy for an entire season. Prior has had elbow problems (red alert) and achilles problems (red alert). Those are not a good thing for pitchers to have. I think the best thing possible for him would be to get away from the Cubs. Their coaching and training staffs are horrible. As long as he is with them, he will keep getting injured. Until Prior shows that he can throw 200+ innings a couple years in a row, he will be nothing but a question mark and potential.

A_ROW33
12-22-2005, 04:54 PM
What I really don't get is how does this trade work from Tejada's viewpoint? He wants to be on a team with a shot and goes to a team who had a losing season last year, would be without one of their best pitchers because that pitcher was traded for him, not even mentioning that the 2 best teams in the league are competing in that division. As little hope the Os have of winning the division the cubs have less if they trade prior or zambrano. The biggest loser in this trade could be tejada, although he'd rack up numbers hitting between around lee and ramirez with pierre leading off.

gf2020
12-22-2005, 05:02 PM
What I really don't get is how does this trade work from Tejada's viewpoint? He wants to be on a team with a shot and goes to a team who had a losing season last year, would be without one of their best pitchers because that pitcher was traded for him, not even mentioning that the 2 best teams in the league are competing in that division. As little hope the Os have of winning the division the cubs have less if they trade prior or zambrano. The biggest loser in this trade could be tejada, although he'd rack up numbers hitting between around lee and ramirez with pierre leading off.
The Cardinals and Astros look to come back down to earth significantly next season with their FA defections and aging. Even if they don't, it's an easier division to win then the AL East with the Yankees so far ahead of everyone and the Blue Jays and Red Sox still being at least ten games better than the O's.

BNLSox
12-22-2005, 05:10 PM
I disagree with your thoughts on the Yankees running away with that division. It is my humble belief that the Blue Jays have made the necessary upgrades and have really rounded out what was a very decent ball club in 2005.

They have a strong front to their rotation and by adding Overbay and some relief help, this team is going to give the Yankees and their lackluster pitching a run for their money. I have some faith in Chacon, but Small and Wang, while they held the team together at the end of the year, aren't the kind of guys that a staff can bank on. The Yankees are OLD OLD OLD and will face the same issues as last year. I expect the Blue Jays to now have the tools to take advantage of that and spring ahead of the floundering Yanks and Red Sox.


Sorry for the thread hijack.... Continue talk about Tejada

RallyBowl
12-22-2005, 05:10 PM
Those are the same people who are so blinded by their Sox loyalty (a *much* lesser "offense") that they say the first player they'd choose to start a ballclub would be Mark Buehrle.

Ah, I remember that debate. MB vs. Jesus.

Buerhle since 2000- 85W, 172GS, 18CG, 6SO, 1224IP, 3.63ERA

averages- 15W, 31GS, 3CG, 1SO, 225IP, 3.63ERA


Prior since 2002- 41W, 97GS, 5CG, 1SO, 613IP, 3.24ERA

averages- 14W, 34GS, 1CG, 0SO, 214IP, 3.24ERA


Conclusion- Buehrle > Prior. Say what you want, But if I'm starting a team, you don't draft on potential. That is all Prior has ever had, is potential. I was in on that debate IIRC, and I still say Buehrle is the guy I'd start my franchise with. Prior is a waste and most likely isn't going to amount to anything, and surely will never live up to the messiah expectations.

What really peeves me is that hypothetically, the O's probably wouldn't even consider the trade if it was Buehrle was the bait. Everyone has this idea that Prior is this uber-stud when in fact, he's not even as good as our top 4 pitchers. And yes, part of the reason I think he sucks is because he plays for the cubs. But if he played for any other team, I'd still think he was just another overrated POS.

DSpivack
12-22-2005, 05:34 PM
Wood and Prior are never healthy and Zambrano, Mitre, and Maddux(in 2006 form) cannot carry a team to the post season with many spot starts from a depleted farm system.

FYI: Sergio Mitre is a Florida Marlin.

SoxSpeed22
12-22-2005, 05:43 PM
This would be a somewhat steal for the Cubs. They get another MVP candidate, as well as a good pitcher in Bedard. Personally, I think there is such a thing as "cursed players." Since 2003, Prior has either had freak injuries or something or other goes wrong. He's still good, just unlucky.

kittle42
12-22-2005, 07:15 PM
Ah, I remember that debate. MB vs. Jesus.

Buerhle since 2000- 85W, 172GS, 18CG, 6SO, 1224IP, 3.63ERA

averages- 15W, 31GS, 3CG, 1SO, 225IP, 3.63ERA


Prior since 2002- 41W, 97GS, 5CG, 1SO, 613IP, 3.24ERA

averages- 14W, 34GS, 1CG, 0SO, 214IP, 3.24ERA


Conclusion- Buehrle > Prior.

I didn't mean to begin a Prior v. Buehrle debate. I wouldn't start a team with prior, either.

Exit_Only
12-22-2005, 11:03 PM
Ah, I remember that debate. MB vs. Jesus.

Buerhle since 2000- 85W, 172GS, 18CG, 6SO, 1224IP, 3.63ERA

averages- 15W, 31GS, 3CG, 1SO, 225IP, 3.63ERA


Prior since 2002- 41W, 97GS, 5CG, 1SO, 613IP, 3.24ERA

averages- 14W, 34GS, 1CG, 0SO, 214IP, 3.24ERA


Conclusion- Buehrle > Prior. Say what you want, But if I'm starting a team, you don't draft on potential. That is all Prior has ever had, is potential. I was in on that debate IIRC, and I still say Buehrle is the guy I'd start my franchise with. Prior is a waste and most likely isn't going to amount to anything, and surely will never live up to the messiah expectations.

What really peeves me is that hypothetically, the O's probably wouldn't even consider the trade if it was Buehrle was the bait. Everyone has this idea that Prior is this uber-stud when in fact, he's not even as good as our top 4 pitchers. And yes, part of the reason I think he sucks is because he plays for the cubs. But if he played for any other team, I'd still think he was just another overrated POS.

Your games started stats are incorrect. Prior has never started 34 games in a season, let alone averages 34 GS per year.

Also, Buehrle averages almost 34 starts per year if you don't factor in year 2000, when he pitched out of the bullpen.


Cubs fans get agitated when Prior's called injury prone, but it's the truth. They say Kerry Wood is injury prone, but that Prior isn't. They think because Prior doesn't go on the DL as often as Wood, he can't be labeled as injury prone. That thinking is incorrect. Prior has gone on the Disabled List four times in his short 4-year career. One was a fluke injury--the liner off his elbow--but the other three prove he's injury prone.

Prior opened the 2005 season on the DL with an ulnar-nerve injury in his pitching elbow. He not only missed regular season starts, but was bothered all Spring Training by this injury.

Later in 2005, Prior went back to the DL after taking a liner off his elbow.

Prior opened the 2004 season on the DL and missed one-third of the season with TWO injuries--one to his arm and one to his achilles tendon.

Prior spent part of the 2003 season on the DL after his collision with Marcus Giles.



The liner back at his elbow is the only fluke injury he's had in his career. His injury due to his collision with Marcus Giles is uncommon, but the fact that he had to spend time on the DL--along with his DL stints for elbow and achilles injuries--shows that his body is injury prone.


Contrast that with Mark Buehrle, a man who has never missed a start--even when he was expected to miss 6 weeks with a broken foot. Not only does Buehrle not miss his starts, he usually lasts into the 7th inning or later, also due to his durability. In addition to his yearly DL stint, Prior was pulled from a start in September 2005 because his leg was hurting.

There is no doubt that Mark Prior is injury prone.

TheVulture
12-23-2005, 12:25 AM
Come on, the guy's still young. He had a freak injury last year. And as long as he stays healthy, he should average 15-17 wins a year and a 3.20 era. The moronic Cub hating on this board is stopping people from seeing the fact that Prior is a fantastic young pitcher.

Only moronic Cub-love could make someone think Prior has done anything to merit an assumption of future HOFer.

whitesoxfan1986
12-23-2005, 10:17 AM
Obviously with the ok of Baltimore and the Cubs, why can't the Sox give JG 5/60 mil and Jose like 4/40. Then after fitting Baltimore's requirements of non-free agent pitchers work out a 3 way where the Cubs get Bedard and Tejada, Sox get Prior and Baltimore gets both Jose and JG. The Cubs get what they want to replace Prior, Baltimore gets 2 very good pitchers opposed to 1 great pitcher. As far as the Sox go we get Prior, who after his contract is up and after Freddy's is up we could throw 15 million at Prior and let Freddy go with one of our prospects filling the 5th spot. Make it happen Kenny.


That would be a great trade for the Sox. Yeah, Garland and Jose are studs right now, But there is a possibility that they both had a career year and we really don't know how old Jose really is. When I was watching the WS an announcer said that Jose has been married for 17 years which makes me think that Jose is more like 42 than 34. Garland doesn't want to be here, and will be traded. The trade would have to be something like this: Sox get Prior and prospects from Baltimore, The Cubs get Tejada and cash , and Baltimore gets Contreras and Garland.
That would give the sox a rotation of: Buehrle, Garcia, Prior, Vazquez, McCarthy which would be sick.

Prior/McCarthy>>>>>>>Contreras/Garland

Flight #24
12-23-2005, 10:22 AM
Your games started stats are incorrect. Prior has never started 34 games in a season, let alone averages 34 GS per year.

Also, Buehrle averages almost 34 starts per year if you don't factor in year 2000, when he pitched out of the bullpen.


Cubs fans get agitated when Prior's called injury prone, but it's the truth. They say Kerry Wood is injury prone, but that Prior isn't. They think because Prior doesn't go on the DL as often as Wood, he can't be labeled as injury prone. That thinking is incorrect. Prior has gone on the Disabled List four times in his short 4-year career. One was a fluke injury--the liner off his elbow--but the other three prove he's injury prone.

Prior opened the 2005 season on the DL with an ulnar-nerve injury in his pitching elbow. He not only missed regular season starts, but was bothered all Spring Training by this injury.

Later in 2005, Prior went back to the DL after taking a liner off his elbow.

Prior opened the 2004 season on the DL and missed one-third of the season with TWO injuries--one to his arm and one to his achilles tendon.

Prior spent part of the 2003 season on the DL after his collision with Marcus Giles.



The liner back at his elbow is the only fluke injury he's had in his career. His injury due to his collision with Marcus Giles is uncommon, but the fact that he had to spend time on the DL--along with his DL stints for elbow and achilles injuries--shows that his body is injury prone.


Contrast that with Mark Buehrle, a man who has never missed a start--even when he was expected to miss 6 weeks with a broken foot. Not only does Buehrle not miss his starts, he usually lasts into the 7th inning or later, also due to his durability. In addition to his yearly DL stint, Prior was pulled from a start in September 2005 because his leg was hurting.

There is no doubt that Mark Prior is injury prone.

Whil I agree that Prior hasn't yet proven that he can last a full season, it does appear that 2 of the 4 injuries are freak in nature (collision with Giles, liner to elbow). The achilles/elbow are worrisome, but it's a far cry from a guy like Wood who's had repeated arm/shoulder issues.

Exit_Only
12-23-2005, 10:58 AM
Whil I agree that Prior hasn't yet proven that he can last a full season, it does appear that 2 of the 4 injuries are freak in nature (collision with Giles, liner to elbow). The achilles/elbow are worrisome, but it's a far cry from a guy like Wood who's had repeated arm/shoulder issues.

That's true, Prior is not as injury prone as Kerry Wood. But Wood is not the standard for which to judge if a player is injury prone. Evaluate Prior's injury situation on its own, free of comparisons to Wood or the antithesis, Mark Buehrle.

What you'll find is that in Prior's short, less than four full year career, he's been on the Disabled List two separate times solely due from his body failing to withstand the duties of pitching. That's injury prone.

Tragg
12-23-2005, 11:20 AM
That's true, Prior is not as injury prone as Kerry Wood. But Wood is not the standard for which to judge if a player is injury prone. Evaluate Prior's injury situation on its own, free of comparisons to Wood or the antithesis, Mark Buehrle.

What you'll find is that in Prior's short, less than four full year career, he's been on the Disabled List two separate times solely due from his body failing to withstand the duties of pitching. That's injury prone.
Plus, I think 2 really good pitchers are more valuable than 1 great one (if that's what Prior is) - they're worth more than Prior.

Hitmen77
12-23-2005, 11:31 AM
Come on, the guy's still young. He had a freak injury last year. And as long as he stays healthy, he should average 15-17 wins a year and a 3.20 era. The moronic Cub hating on this board is stopping people from seeing the fact that Prior is a fantastic young pitcher.

Why is it moronic to say that Prior is not a future HOF? Right now, this statement is true even though he could possibly put up HOF numbers in the future. I don't believe in punching peoples tickets to the HOF after 3 or 4 injury-prone seasons.

I think the problem with Prior (other than his injury setbacks) is that he just can't live up to all that hype that Cub-dumb has been spewing about him for the past 4 years. From the moment he came up, he was a national sensation, the next Cubs "messiah", and most importantly to the Cubs and their fans - a draw at the gate. Meanwhile, players like Mark Buehrle quietly put up better numbers that the Cubs "phenom" with about 1/10th the hype.

Sure Prior is a very good pitcher when not injured. But even after his injury last year, was he Cy Young material? Better than Dontrelle Willis, Mark Buehrle, Bartolo Colon, etc?

What's moronic is this Cubs tendency to always come up with another overhyped phenom who is turned into a media sensation that doesn't quite match reality. Then when they fail to make the playoffs, everyone is baffled at how a team full of phenoms and "messiahs" can't win - and that's where the "curse" excuse comes in. :rolleyes:

Hangar18
12-23-2005, 11:32 AM
Only moronic Cub-love could make someone think Prior has done anything to merit an assumption of future HOFer.

If your talking Moronic Cub-Love (oops, i typed cubs), look no further than the mighty Chicago Media, who have control over the minds of thousands of mindless sheep, telling everyone else just how messiah-like he really is.
Anyone remember an afternoon radio show devoting their entire broadcast the nite he was to make his 1st start, to how good could he be and would he be in the Hall of Fame. BEFORE HIS 1st START! If we had a chance to acquire The Messiah, cheap, Id take a chance. He has been tainted, having worn that uniform for a few years already however.

Tragg
12-23-2005, 11:37 AM
Prior is about the same pitcher as Oswalt as I see it, except that Oswalt doesn't share Prior's affection for the disabled list - Oswalt wants to pitch. Is Oswalt a future hall of famer? Maybe, if he repeats his last 4 years for the next 10.

scope1200
12-23-2005, 11:56 AM
prior's seasonal average for his career is 10-6 3.50+ era and 150 innings pitched

hardly HOF numbers

Chek2002
12-23-2005, 12:33 PM
I saw this rumor out there:

"Reports now indicate that now the Chicago White Sox may be the third team involved in the Tejada deal. The trade would have to be something like this: The Cubs get Tejada and cash , and Baltimore gets Contreras, Garland, and OF prospect Ryan Sweeney from the White Sox, and the White Sox get Prior and a prospect from Baltimore." It's no secret Kenny Williams has been trying to move Jon Garland, who's already turned down at least one contract extension. This deal would greatly improve Baltimore's rotation giving them two front of the rotation starters in one shot. It would also give the White Sox more room financially to sign Buehrle to an extension after the '07 season."

What do you think?

santo=dorf
12-23-2005, 12:36 PM
I saw this rumor out there:

"Reports now indicate that now the Chicago White Sox may be the third team involved in the Tejada deal. The trade would have to be something like this: The Cubs get Tejada and cash , and Baltimore gets Contreras, Garland, and OF prospect Ryan Sweeney from the White Sox, and the White Sox get Prior and a prospect from Baltimore." It's no secret Kenny Williams has been trying to move Jon Garland, who's already turned down at least one contract extension. This deal would greatly improve Baltimore's rotation giving them two front of the rotation starters in one shot. It would also give the White Sox more room financially to sign Buehrle to an extension after the '07 season."

What do you think?

What is your source? I don't think the Cubs want to send the Sox Prior, and that's a big price to pay even if Jose and Jon aren't willing to sign extensions at the moment.

whitesoxfan
12-23-2005, 12:51 PM
What is your source? I don't think the Cubs want to send the Sox Prior, and that's a big price to pay even if Jose and Jon aren't willing to sign extensions at the moment.

i wouldn't think it would be that big of a deal for the Cubs. They may face Prior twice a year, but he's still with an AL team where he really wouldn't hurt the Cubs and they get their guy in Tejada.

I would like to have more verification though on that rumor..

and I just read it again and we'd be giving up BOTH Contreras and Garland? Next..

KRS1
12-23-2005, 01:10 PM
i wouldn't think it would be that big of a deal for the Cubs. They may face Prior twice a year, but he's still with an AL team where he really wouldn't hurt the Cubs and they get their guy in Tejada.

I would like to have more verification though on that rumor..

and I just read it again and we'd be giving up BOTH Contreras and Garland? Next..

Bunk *** rumor right here. The only way that happens is if we get everyteams top pitching prospect and a handful of others.:rolleyes:

Exit_Only
12-23-2005, 01:19 PM
i wouldn't think it would be that big of a deal for the Cubs. They may face Prior twice a year, but he's still with an AL team where he really wouldn't hurt the Cubs and they get their guy in Tejada.

I would like to have more verification though on that rumor..

and I just read it again and we'd be giving up BOTH Contreras and Garland? Next..
Well, that type of trade is KW's style. He is replacing one of Contreras and Garland for Javier Vazquez, who is inferior to both Contreras and Garland, because JaVa is signed through 2008.

Prior is also an inferior pitcher to Garland and Contreras, but KW likes that he'd be Sox property through 2008. Whether this rumor is true or complete fiction, it definately sounds like a trade KW would make.

While it's frustrating to downgrade the World Champion pitching staff from Buehrle, Contreras, Garcia, Garland and El Duque to Buehrle, Garcia, Vazquez, Prior and McCarthy, I do see the upside of having them signed long-term. Vazquez and Prior could easily improve under the watch of Don Cooper, and Prior would benefit from having the game's best trainer, Herm Schneider, working to keep him off the DL.

samram
12-23-2005, 01:21 PM
What do you think? I think you have a very vivid imagination.

ShoelessJoeS
12-23-2005, 02:10 PM
i wouldn't think it would be that big of a deal for the Cubs. They may face Prior twice a year, but he's still with an AL team where he really wouldn't hurt the Cubs and they get their guy in Tejada.

I would like to have more verification though on that rumor..

and I just read it again and we'd be giving up BOTH Contreras and Garland? Next..
Plus Prior is a free agent after 2006, unless the Sox could lock him up for years down the road.....NEXT!

santo=dorf
12-23-2005, 02:13 PM
Plus Prior is a free agent after 2006, unless the Sox could lock him up for years down the road.....NEXT!

I'm pretty sure he's arbitration eligible after 2006.

Exit_Only
12-23-2005, 02:19 PM
I saw this rumor out there:



What do you think?

I think you should cite your source in response to santo=dorf's request (great handle santo). We can tell you're online.

:dtroll:

ChiSoxRowand
12-23-2005, 02:27 PM
Media troll murph was talking about a bunch of Tejada rumors on his show earlier today. One of them involved the Sox getting Eric Bedard and a prospect (Adam Loewen?) from the Orioles for Garland. That wouldn't be such a bad deal.

Flight #24
12-23-2005, 02:37 PM
Media troll murph was talking about a bunch of Tejada rumors on his show earlier today. One of them involved the Sox getting Eric Bedard and a prospect (Adam Loewen?) from the Orioles for Garland. That wouldn't be such a bad deal.

He also had a 4-way discussed, pieced together from the articles noted as well as some Boston ones.

Red Sox get: Prior, Patterson
O's get Ramirez, Garland
Cubs get: Tejada
Sox get: Bedard, prospect

I'd have to assume that the Sox get a prospect from the Cubs (Rich Hill?). Because I don't see a Prior+Patterson for Tejada deal.

Flight #24
12-23-2005, 02:39 PM
I saw this rumor out there:

"Reports now indicate that now the Chicago White Sox may be the third team involved in the Tejada deal. The trade would have to be something like this: The Cubs get Tejada and cash , and Baltimore gets Contreras, Garland, and OF prospect Ryan Sweeney from the White Sox, and the White Sox get Prior and a prospect from Baltimore." It's no secret Kenny Williams has been trying to move Jon Garland, who's already turned down at least one contract extension. This deal would greatly improve Baltimore's rotation giving them two front of the rotation starters in one shot. It would also give the White Sox more room financially to sign Buehrle to an extension after the '07 season."

What do you think?

That would be a freaking awesome deal for the Sox. McCarthy+Prior > Contreras+Garland. Prior is dirt cheap for '06, then is arb eligible for 2 years. If the prospect is Loewen from BAL, then that gives you a solid SP to replace one of Freddy/Buehrle.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-23-2005, 02:50 PM
I saw this rumor out there:

"Reports now indicate that now the Chicago White Sox may be the third team involved in the Tejada deal. The trade would have to be something like this: The Cubs get Tejada and cash , and Baltimore gets Contreras, Garland, and OF prospect Ryan Sweeney from the White Sox, and the White Sox get Prior and a prospect from Baltimore." It's no secret Kenny Williams has been trying to move Jon Garland, who's already turned down at least one contract extension. This deal would greatly improve Baltimore's rotation giving them two front of the rotation starters in one shot. It would also give the White Sox more room financially to sign Buehrle to an extension after the '07 season."

What do you think?

You SAW that rumor out there SOMEWHERE? Did you see it here after you typed it?

Hawk has a comment to make about your "rumor"...

http://sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/images/team/broadcasters/broadcaster_cws_harrelson.jpg
"That's pure BS."

Give me one good reason why the Sox would give up Garland, Contreras, Sweeney, and possibly some cash for just Mark Prior? I don't care who that prospect is, because he's not a guranteed major league player like Contreras and Garland are.

I'll take it one step further, why the hell would the O's give up Tejada AND a prospect AND cash for essentially just Ryan Sweeney? If they don't re-sign the two starters they would get from us, in 2007, they would pretty much just have Sweeney to show as what they got for Tejada (Sweeney may pan out to be better than Tejada).

Some of you "Sox fans" are turning into Cub idiots with these fake rumors and stupid trade offers. Do you guys think about what you are writing before you write it? Or do you at least look back at what you are saying?

Meanwhile, I was reading some (piece of) paper (I found on the ground outside an elementary school) earlier today and according to a credible source (3rd grader Stan Jones), the Sox are still looking in the Jon Garland for Queen Elizabeth trade.

rookieroy
12-23-2005, 02:57 PM
I can't believe I have just wasted 7 minutes of my life reading this crap. This thread now officially sucks. Boy, would baseball blow if some of you were GM's. Happy holidays!

WhiteSoxFan84
12-23-2005, 03:06 PM
I can't believe I have just wasted 7 minutes of my life reading this crap. This thread now officially sucks. Boy, would baseball blow if some of you were GM's. Happy holidays!

:whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

Happy Holidays to you too!

maurice
12-23-2005, 03:06 PM
Sox send: Contreras, Garland, and OF prospect Ryan Sweeney; Sox get: Prior and a prospect from Baltimore?!?

That's absolutely ridiculous. No Baltimore prospect could justify this deal, since Contreras + Garland >>> an injury-prone Prior. Look at it this way, the five veteran starters on the Sox have one thing in common . . . the ability to pitch 200+ innings annually without injury. That's not a coincidence; it's a very wise strategy. Prior does not remotely fit this mold, and it's unlikely that he'd suddenly become a horse as he gets older.

Exit_Only
12-23-2005, 03:20 PM
You SAW that rumor out there SOMEWHERE? Did you see it here after you typed it?

Hawk has a comment to make about your "rumor"...

http://sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/images/team/broadcasters/broadcaster_cws_harrelson.jpg
"That's pure BS."
Good points WSF84. Looking at his previous posts, Chek2002 understands the policy of naming sources, so his lack of a source here is suspicious. Note that he has not responded to santo=dorf's request to list his source. We can tell that Chek2002 is online, so I'm betting he's seen santo's post.

I'm guessing his motivation for not linking a source is because he made the trade up because he's a Cubbie troll trying to get Sox fans to fawn over Prior.


Some of you "Sox fans" are turning into Cub idiots with these fake rumors and stupid trade offers.
I'm not sold that he's a Sox fan. Looking at his extensive 25-post history, he posted in a postgame loss, and in a 7/30/2004 thread asking when the Sox will regain first place, Chek2002 replys: "Next year. We will probably not be chasing Minnesota thought it should be Cleveland." http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=463208#post463208

Hey :dtroll:, how's that White Sox Championship sting?

Tragg
12-23-2005, 04:07 PM
That would be a freaking awesome deal for the Sox. McCarthy+Prior > Contreras+Garland. Prior is dirt cheap for '06, then is arb eligible for 2 years. If the prospect is Loewen from BAL, then that gives you a solid SP to replace one of Freddy/Buehrle.
Yea, but we already have McCarthy - it's not like we're getting him out of this trade - he's not part of the deal. Contreras and Garland and Sweeney for the Prior (who hasn't proven he can pitch an entire year) is way too much.
What will we do with all of the money we save?

soxwon
12-23-2005, 10:44 PM
If You Believe the Cubs- GOD grew up a CUBS FAN.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-24-2005, 12:57 AM
If You Believe the Cubs- GOD grew up a CUBS FAN.

I love this one...


http://fruitydrinks.com/~kee/albums/album79/pic26154.jpg