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View Full Version : So what's the deal with Joe Borchard?


soxfan1983
12-21-2005, 05:18 PM
are the sox going to keep him? release him? trade him? etc? so much potential in that guy.... :dtroll:

SoxSideIrish
12-21-2005, 05:19 PM
heres another question, does borchard have any minor league options left?

soxfan1983
12-21-2005, 05:23 PM
heres another question, does borchard have any minor league options left?

no he does not... thats why i was asking. and it doesnt seem like the sox have a place for him on the bench. trade him for some prospects? ive always had this feeling about outfielders... they are a dime a dozen.

DickAllen72
12-21-2005, 05:25 PM
He'll pobably take Timo's spot as the fourth outfielder on the Sox this year.

kittle42
12-21-2005, 05:46 PM
If he shows nothing in Spring Training, he can go the way of Timo and Willie.

santo=dorf
12-21-2005, 06:41 PM
http://bigbelch.com/celebs/jerry.gif
"........I mean, the guy is a College QB, so you give him $5.3 million to play minor league baseball?!?! What is the deal?"

rowand33
12-21-2005, 07:01 PM
I've always hated Borchard...

that being said, I've somehow had a change of heart this offseason and am really, really rooting for him to make the team as a reserve. He seems like a nice enough guy, he played well in september, and this is his last chance with our organization. And you just know that as soon as he goes to another team, he's gonna start hitting 30 a year (Borchard and Patterson will get traded to the Royals and be part of the most dominant outfield in baseball leading KC to a AL Central title)...

Should we start up a Friends of Joe Borchard?

:LTP
"Everybody needs a friend."

doublem23
12-21-2005, 08:08 PM
Eh, let's not go that far. How about, "Lukewarm Supporters of LTP."

Banix12
12-21-2005, 08:16 PM
I think he becomes an everyday starter... in the arena football league.

I want nothing to do with the guy and after watching his worthless 200 AB's in 2004 I'm betting Ozzie feels the same way. And don't get too excited about his 5 for 12 last season. Five hits off of middle relievers like Esteban Yan is hardly encouraging enough for him to deserve a spot. Not after nearly 1700 at bats in AAA where he was a career .260 hitter.

I think if he does well in spring training he gets traded and if he does poorly in spring training he gets released. Borchard's potential is a myth.

1951Campbell
12-21-2005, 08:19 PM
I think he becomes an everyday starter... in the arena football league.

I want nothing to do with the guy and after watching his worthless 200 AB's in 2004 I'm betting Ozzie feels the same way. And don't get too excited about his 5 for 12 last season. Five hits off of middle relievers like Esteban Yan is hardly encouraging enough for him to deserve a spot. Not after nearly 1700 at bats in AAA where he was a career .260 hitter.

I think if he does well in spring training he gets traded and if he does poorly in spring training he gets released. Borchard's potential is a myth.

It seems at this point he's got "AAAA player" written all over him.

Ol' No. 2
12-21-2005, 08:21 PM
It seems at this point he's got "AAAA player" written all over him.So far he doesn't even have "AAA player" written all over him.:(:

Banix12
12-21-2005, 08:26 PM
It seems at this point he's got "AAAA player" written all over him.

I always thought to be a AAAA player you have to dominate AAA first and be unable to make the transition to the Majors. I wouldn't call .263 at AAA dominating. He's just a AAA power hitter.

ChiSoxIn06
12-21-2005, 08:32 PM
They should trade him for money to build the big frank statue that we all want.

Banix12
12-21-2005, 08:36 PM
They should trade him for money to build the big frank statue that we all want.

You can build a statue for $50?

lostletters
12-21-2005, 09:05 PM
are the sox going to keep him? release him? trade him? etc? so much potential in that guy.... :dtroll:

What Potential?


Seriously Anderson and Owens and Sweeny are all ahead of him from my perspective.

Anderson and Owens will probably replace Rowand in CF, with the other guy being the bench outfielder. Both of those players have shown massive potential, Owens as a future leadoff hitter and Anderson as a well rounded baseball player.

I think Borchard is going to have nice career as a power hitter, in Japan.

mike squires
12-21-2005, 09:09 PM
I've always pulled for Joe. I want him to succeed so badly. Overall, he's proobably my favorite player on the Sox. Not sure if he fits with us though. I don't really want a power hitter with little speed as our 4th outfielder. I wish him well whatever he does. I remember telling him as a bunch of people surrounded him at Soxfest. Joe, this is just the beginning. Little did I know, it was the beginning of the end.

1951Campbell
12-21-2005, 09:31 PM
I always thought to be a AAAA player you have to dominate AAA first and be unable to make the transition to the Majors. I wouldn't call .263 at AAA dominating. He's just a AAA power hitter.

I always imagined a KC/TB-type team falling for all that "potential" hype and giving him a year or two before he falls out of the majors. Then again, maybe that kind of career arc does make you just a AAA power hitter, considering how much those teams suck.

Daver
12-21-2005, 09:35 PM
I've always pulled for Joe. I want him to succeed so badly. Overall, he's proobably my favorite player on the Sox. Not sure if he fits with us though. I don't really want a power hitter with little speed as our 4th outfielder. I wish him well whatever he does. I remember telling him as a bunch of people surrounded him at Soxfest. Joe, this is just the beginning. Little did I know, it was the beginning of the end.

Joe Borchard is the second fastest guy on the team now that Willie is gone.

nodiggity59
12-21-2005, 09:55 PM
Joe Borchard is the second fastest guy on the team now that Willie is gone.

Faster than Gooch, Mackowiak, Uribe, Anderson, Pablo, and Paulie?

Tragg
12-21-2005, 10:33 PM
There's little chance that Joe Borchard won't outproduce Timo's production of the last 2 years.
If Owens and Sweeney are more our future, all the more reason to leave them in AAA so they can play every day, and give Borchard the Liefer spot on teh team, and hope he does well and a lot better than timor or liefer. He might do a pretty good job, especially if he can show some plate patience.

Banix12
12-21-2005, 10:36 PM
I've always pulled for Joe. I want him to succeed so badly. Overall, he's proobably my favorite player on the Sox. Not sure if he fits with us though. I don't really want a power hitter with little speed as our 4th outfielder. I wish him well whatever he does. I remember telling him as a bunch of people surrounded him at Soxfest. Joe, this is just the beginning. Little did I know, it was the beginning of the end.

You know I think a lot of people want to see Joe succeed and I pulled for him for a long time. I just really think it is never going to happen the way we wanted to. We've lowered the bar so far for him year after year.

First it was "Look at the power he is going to be a superstar"
Then it was "I think he'll be a decent major league starter someday"
Now it is "I think he can be a decent backup OF"

I have already reached "Joe you are only 27, that's not that old, why not give football a try again? NFL Europe calls to you."

Seriously, if he was going to be a major leaguer don't you think he would have shown a lot more progress at at AAA? Maybe put at least one full season together down there where he hit above .270. I think I would really rather see a 4th OF who has at least tasted some success at some time at the MLB level, like a Jeff Davanon.

Chicken Dinner
12-21-2005, 10:37 PM
It looks like the Sox are going to give him one more chance in ST. Other than that, he's worthless.

Banix12
12-21-2005, 10:41 PM
There's little chance that Joe Borchard won't outproduce Timo's production of the last 2 years.
If Owens and Sweeney are more our future, all the more reason to leave them in AAA so they can play every day, and give Borchard the Liefer spot on teh team, and hope he does well and a lot better than timor or liefer. He might do a pretty good job, especially if he can show some plate patience.

First off that last sentence is just wishing for him to magically produce something that he hasn't shown in all his years in the minors. He hasn't shown patience since becoming a pro, why would he start now.

And you know what. I would take that as a bet. Who will produce more, Timo or Borchard, and I would bet the farm that Timo would produce more. Because at the heart of the battle this is still about a .260 career major league hitter against a .260 career AAA hitter.

Though I don't want to get into a whole Timo vs. Borchard debate again. They both don't belong on the team, I'm glad timo is gone, and bring on another option to take the backup OF role.

TheLittleBulldog
12-21-2005, 10:43 PM
The real question is what do they do to honor Joe Borchard if they do indeed let him go or trade him? Do they retire his number that same day? Do they commission a statue of him swinging through a hanging curve ball for the outfield concourse? Do they invite him back for the ring ceremony?

Chicken Dinner
12-21-2005, 10:45 PM
The real question is what do they do to honor Joe Borchard if they do indeed let him go or trade him? Do they retire his number that same day? Do they commission a statue of him swinging through a hanging curve ball for the outfield concourse? Do they invite him back for the ring ceremony?

I think Thome took his number.

TheLittleBulldog
12-21-2005, 10:47 PM
I think Thome took his number.

#25 will always be Joe Borchards number to me.

Tragg
12-21-2005, 11:01 PM
And you know what. I would take that as a bet. Who will produce more, Timo or Borchard, and I would bet the farm that Timo would produce more. Because at the heart of the battle this is still about a .260 career major league hitter against a .260 career AAA hitter.
Timo hit .218 and .260 the last two years and couldn't get anywhere near a .300 OBP. He also checks in with 25 career homers in 1500 at bats.
My grandmother could do better than that.

Let me know if you want to make a friendly Borchard/Timo wager if Borchard takes the Timo position.

I agree with you that plate disclipline is unlikely to improve (which is why I'm not enamored with young players who have no plate discipline like carl crawford).

Dolanski
12-21-2005, 11:41 PM
Trade him for Corey Patterson...

jabrch
12-21-2005, 11:49 PM
I think Borchard is going to have nice career as a power hitter, in Japan.

Is being able to consistently hit the ball not important for power hitters in Japan?

Banix12
12-22-2005, 12:03 AM
Timo hit .218 and .260 the last two years and couldn't get anywhere near a .300 OBP. He also checks in with 25 career homers in 1500 at bats.
My grandmother could do better than that.

Let me know if you want to make a friendly Borchard/Timo wager if Borchard takes the Timo position.

I agree with you that plate disclipline is unlikely to improve (which is why I'm not enamored with young players who have no plate discipline like carl crawford).

Your grandmother is a pretty impressive baseball player, especially at that age. :wink:

It's not as if Borchard has ever done much to get near those totals Timo produced when given the chance, especially when given a starting job in 2004. If he does make the sox roster I would consider making a small friendly wager.
How about something where Borchard would have to outproduce Timo's averages over the last two years in Batting Average and OBP. I think using any other category would be unfair since they are largely dependant on the amount of AB's a player gets and Timo got a lot of AB's in 2004 that I think gives him an unfair advantage in some categories. I would also set a rule that Borchard would have to reach a minimum of 150 AB's for his stats to count

So Borchard would have to produce better than
.232 batting average
.276 OBP

thomas35forever
12-22-2005, 12:47 AM
I say get rid of him, but I think they're going to keep him for now. If he's still playing crappy, then he'll probably be off the roster by May.

AZChiSoxFan
12-22-2005, 08:44 AM
I've always pulled for Joe. I want him to succeed so badly. Overall, he's proobably my favorite player on the Sox. Not sure if he fits with us though. I don't really want a power hitter with little speed as our 4th outfielder. I wish him well whatever he does. I remember telling him as a bunch of people surrounded him at Soxfest. Joe, this is just the beginning. Little did I know, it was the beginning of the end.

:tealpolice:

AZChiSoxFan
12-22-2005, 08:46 AM
The real question is what do they do to honor Joe Borchard if they do indeed let him go or trade him? Do they retire his number that same day? Do they commission a statue of him swinging through a hanging curve ball for the outfield concourse? Do they invite him back for the ring ceremony?

He gets an appreciation thread at WSI.

Tragg
12-22-2005, 08:48 AM
Your grandmother is a pretty impressive baseball player, especially at that age. :wink:

It's not as if Borchard has ever done much to get near those totals Timo produced when given the chance, especially when given a starting job in 2004. If he does make the sox roster I would consider making a small friendly wager.
How about something where Borchard would have to outproduce Timo's averages over the last two years in Batting Average and OBP. I think using any other category would be unfair since they are largely dependant on the amount of AB's a player gets and Timo got a lot of AB's in 2004 that I think gives him an unfair advantage in some categories. I would also set a rule that Borchard would have to reach a minimum of 150 AB's for his stats to count

So Borchard would have to produce better than
.232 batting average
.276 OBP
Okay - you've got it. Maybe for a small piece of merchandise from the Sox store. I can't get enough caps.
As an aside, I'm seeing more Sox caps down here - maybe in part because of all of the relief/construction wokers down from the midwest - but there's nothing more popular than a winner.

Tragg
12-22-2005, 08:52 AM
He gets an appreciation thread at WSI.

Why not? At least he's Rule V protected; I think there's a thread above for someone lost in the rule V draft.

But then, of course, I think we owe some retro appreciation threads for the hard work of players who laid the foundation in prior years, like Rick White, Mike Jackson, and Alan Embree.

soxfan1983
12-22-2005, 11:05 AM
What Potential?


Seriously Anderson and Owens and Sweeny are all ahead of him from my perspective.

Anderson and Owens will probably replace Rowand in CF, with the other guy being the bench outfielder. Both of those players have shown massive potential, Owens as a future leadoff hitter and Anderson as a well rounded baseball player.

I think Borchard is going to have nice career as a power hitter, in Japan.

i meant he had so much potential when we drafted him

Banix12
12-22-2005, 03:05 PM
Okay - you've got it. Maybe for a small piece of merchandise from the Sox store. I can't get enough caps.
As an aside, I'm seeing more Sox caps down here - maybe in part because of all of the relief/construction wokers down from the midwest - but there's nothing more popular than a winner.

That sounds fair, what do caps go for these days anyway at the sox store? Anyway, I'll keep a note of this and we'll get to this more around spring training.

soxinem1
12-22-2005, 05:14 PM
I keep hearing the Sox plan on carrying 12 pitchers next year and this year we only had eleven most of the time. For a team that may lead the league in IP per start again, carrying 12 may be a waste.

So if they go with eleven, they can carry an extra position player. But I think having Sweeney or Owens, unless they are starting, would be silly, when they are better off playing every day.

So for the money they have paid Borchard from his signing bonus, they should make one good effort to get something out of him.

If he's scrubbin' in June, put him on waivers.

maurice
12-22-2005, 05:26 PM
As bad as TImo's overall numbers were, he was even worse in his primary role -- PH.
Timo as a PH since 2003: .173 AVE, .192 OBP, .227 SLG.

Borchard definitely could beat that. Heck, he's off to a great start (5-9 lifetime as a PH in MLB).
:cool: