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Exit_Only
12-20-2005, 07:58 PM
3 years/$16 million!

:rolling:

Looks like the Cubs outbid the Royals who were offering 3 years/$15 million.

per WMVP

samram
12-20-2005, 08:01 PM
Why didn't they just give that money to Corey Patterson? He could suck just as well for the next three years.

munchman33
12-20-2005, 08:01 PM
Well at least they didn't overpay.

Scottiehaswheels
12-20-2005, 08:02 PM
3 years/$16 million!

:rolling:

Looks like the Cubs outbid the Royals who were offering 3 years/$15 million.

per WMVP

That stinks... Now we'll prolly see his stupid grin on TV more often huh?

ilsox7
12-20-2005, 08:04 PM
If this is true, it may take the cake for worst signing of this off season. Three years?

Hahahahahahahahaha.

Exit_Only
12-20-2005, 08:08 PM
If this is true, it may take the cake for worst signing of this off season. Three years?

Hahahahahahahahaha.

I'm talking to a Cub fan friend right now, and he says that it's worse than we think because Jock hits worse in day games.

Clembasbal
12-20-2005, 08:08 PM
Jacque Jones of Jock Jones? Either way bad deal, here comes the world series

Clembasbal
12-20-2005, 08:11 PM
I'm talking to a Cub fan friend right now, and he says that it's worse than we think because Jock hits worse in day games.

Day Games - 3/13/.225

Good luck Flubbies!

Banix12
12-20-2005, 08:12 PM
I basically consider this replacing Corey Patterson with a more expensive version of Corey Patterson.

However the real positive of all this. This Sox killer is out of the American League. Sure we'll have to face him 6 times a year but that is a hell of a lot better than facing him nearly 20 times as a Twin

getonbckthr
12-20-2005, 08:20 PM
The way I see it is we only see him 6 times a year now instead of 19.

Exit_Only
12-20-2005, 08:32 PM
3 years/$16 million!

:rolling:

Looks like the Cubs outbid the Royals who were offering 3 years/$15 million.

per WMVP

MSNBC reporting:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10551273/

chaerulez
12-20-2005, 08:37 PM
I guess they just love sticking high strike out guys in right field. At least Sosa and Burnitz both had the chance/ability to hit 30 out per season. If Jones hits 30, it'd be a career high.

RedHeadPaleHoser
12-20-2005, 08:39 PM
Heard this from Lievineline on ESPN1000....Teinowitz sounded like he was "happy"!! I laughed out loud...Lievine said "Hendry's just showing there are two GM's in this town"...

Yes, there are.....John Paxson and Kenny Williams. :D:

JermaineDye05
12-20-2005, 08:48 PM
yeah isn't jaque jones almost just like corey patterson

ND_Sox_Fan
12-20-2005, 08:48 PM
AJ for 15 or JJ for 16 ??? Tough choice. Wow - what a horrible signing.

chisoxmike
12-20-2005, 08:52 PM
:lynch&mcfail
"Come on, we need to spend more money. It gives the illusion that we're getting better, who can we overpay for???"

SOecks
12-20-2005, 09:06 PM
Wow, good for Jones I guess. Take that money and run. Yet another overpaid player for the Cubs. Good luck to them in 2006. They are going to need it.

itsnotrequired
12-20-2005, 09:08 PM
Wow, good for Jones I guess. Take that money and run. Yet another overpaid player for the Cubs. Good luck to them in 2006. They are going to need it.

I think they are going to need more than that. Cub messageboards are on fire and not in a good way (well, not good if you're a Cub fan).

Kuzman
12-20-2005, 09:12 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051220&content_id=1285214&vkey=hotstove2005&fext=.jsp

I think thats a good pickup for the cubs, I noticed last year whenever he was up late in the game he would come through.

Edit: Sorry didnt notice in another location. Life hates me

FarWestChicago
12-20-2005, 09:18 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051220&content_id=1285214&vkey=hotstove2005&fext=.jsp

I think thats a good pickup for the cubs, I noticed last year whenever he was up late in the game he would come through.

Edit: Sorry didnt notice in another location. Life hates meLife hates all of the Flubsessed. :cool:

34rancher
12-20-2005, 09:35 PM
Help me here. How is that a bad pickup? I wouldn't have minded signing him for that kind of money. That would have been a good centerfileder for us.

Ventura Fan 23
12-20-2005, 09:37 PM
Well, I really doubt he'll do better than what Corey Patterson could do if he were given the playing time and at-bats that Jones will get.

SoxSpeed22
12-20-2005, 09:40 PM
Good riddance...sort of.

ilsox7
12-20-2005, 09:47 PM
Help me here. How is that a bad pickup? I wouldn't have minded signing him for that kind of money. That would have been a good centerfileder for us.

Go take a look at his stats. And if you still think he'd be a good option of us, well, YIKES!

spawn
12-20-2005, 09:50 PM
I think Hendry is spending money just to make it look like the Cubs are doing something. This is not a good signing IMHO. I'm just wondering what team they'll trade Patterson to.

Banix12
12-20-2005, 09:54 PM
Help me here. How is that a bad pickup? I wouldn't have minded signing him for that kind of money. That would have been a good centerfileder for us.

It's an issue of his skill set is nothing all that special. And what is bad for the cubs his that skill set is like crack to them. He is a player with the look of a top of the order hitter and a bat like a lower in the order hitter. Just like Corey patterson.

Basically I have been likening signing Jacque Jones as like signing Carl Everett with better knees. He has some power but he strikes out a ton, his Batting Average has been declining the last few years, he doesn't get on base well. He's not exactly a guy you want to be signing for 3 years, especially at that price.

If Jones can revert back to 2003 form when he was hitting around .300 then this is a bargain, I think if he keeps the form he has had the last couple of years then this is a bad deal because the cubs are basically replacing Jeromy Burnitz or Corey Patterson (depending on which one you want to compare with) with the exact same player but without as high of power potential as either of those players.

If I were the cubs I would have been more inclined to just take the option on Burnitz and try to get something better next year.

Scottiehaswheels
12-20-2005, 09:55 PM
I'm just wondering what team they'll trade Patterson to.

used Toyota dealership for a pimpin' '85 accord...

Exit_Only
12-20-2005, 10:05 PM
Help me here. How is that a bad pickup? I wouldn't have minded signing him for that kind of money. That would have been a good centerfileder for us.
He has regressed in 2004 and 2005, his day game stats are worse than his regressed average, and his 3-year contract prevents the Cubs from going after an impact corner outfielder (which they need) for the duration of his contract. The Cubs also lost a draft pick because the Twins offered Jones arbitration. That's the third draft pick the Cubs have lost this offseason. Some would have rather paid Burnitz's ~$7 million option because it doesn't lock them into a 3-year deal.

Look at the Cubs lineup. They don't have a #5 hitter and this is who Hendry acquires for a power hitting position?

A Cub fan friend of mine suggested Hendry use the excess payroll he had this offseason to frontload new contracts for Prior, Zambrano and Lee. Not overpay for another season of mediocrity with Howry, Eyre, NEIFI, and now Jones.

Hendry should have let Murton and Cedeno get a year under their belts in 2006, re-sign cornerstones like Lee, Prior and Z and then target needs for the 2007 team. This would also allow Pie to develop and allow you to see what he can bring to the MLB club, and saves them the two draft picks they sent to FLA for Pierre, and the 2nd, 3rd and 4th round future draft picks they lost in FA signings this offseason.

Hendry should have rolled over his excess 2006 payroll into 2007 acquisitions because the team he assembled will not be contenders in 2006 and because after this season, he will have to replace 40% of his starting rotation (Wood and Maddux), find a new third baseman (if Aramis opts out of his contract and becomes a FA), a new first baseman, a new second baseman, and replacements for Cedeno, Murton and/or Pie if they don't succeed.

Fuller_Schettman
12-20-2005, 11:11 PM
So let's see, in 2006 the Flubs will have Corey Patterson starting in CF and Corey Patterson II starting in RF?

That will be as confusing as all heck!

buehrle4cy05
12-20-2005, 11:17 PM
As long as he's not in the AL, I could care less where he goes.

The Deacon
12-20-2005, 11:19 PM
This is a decent signing by the Scrubs. It addresses a major need and they really arent paying that much. 3 years/16 million?? C'mon guys this isnt 1994, thats a pretty good deal for a above-average OF. Damon just signed for 4/52!
I consider this on par with the SOX Jermaine Dye signing, everyone laughs now, but stay tuned. I give the Cubs credit on their last 2 moves, Pierre and Jones.
On the other hand..Howry and Eyre?? I cant wait till they come to the Cell next season.

ilsox7
12-20-2005, 11:22 PM
This is a decent signing by the Scrubs. It addresses a major need and they really arent paying that much. 3 years/16 million?? C'mon guys this isnt 1994, thats a pretty good deal for a above-average OF. Damon just signed for 4/52!
I consider this on par with the SOX Jermaine Dye signing, everyone laughs now, but stay tuned. I give the Cubs credit on their last 2 moves, Pierre and Jones.
On the other hand..Howry and Eyre?? I cant wait till they come to the Cell next season.
Go look at his stats. And if you have this same analysis, then I don't know what else to say. The guy is awful on a 3 year deal. MAYBE decent for a 1 year deal, but 3 years was just awful. He doesn't get on base. He strikes out a TON. And he doesn't walk.

Banix12
12-20-2005, 11:24 PM
So let's see, in 2006 the Flubs will have Corey Patterson starting in CF and Corey Patterson II starting in RF?

That will be as confusing as all heck!

How quickly you forget Pierre. Corey Patterson will get traded. Corey Patterson II I have always considered to be Felix Pie. I guess Jones becomes Corey Patterson III.

http://www.bravesbeat.com/photos/rap/011605/b22.jpg
"Corey Patterson III? The outrage! I was Corey Patterson before Corey Patterson was Corey Patterson!"

rowand33
12-20-2005, 11:27 PM
This is a decent signing by the Scrubs. It addresses a major need and they really arent paying that much. 3 years/16 million?? C'mon guys this isnt 1994, thats a pretty good deal for a above-average OF. Damon just signed for 4/52!
I consider this on par with the SOX Jermaine Dye signing, everyone laughs now, but stay tuned. I give the Cubs credit on their last 2 moves, Pierre and Jones.
On the other hand..Howry and Eyre?? I cant wait till they come to the Cell next season.

See, I liked it when we signed Dye. Dye had 30 HR power in his bat, he'd just been the victim of freak injuries.

An outfield of Murton-Pierre-Jones has no power in it. There are what? 35 home runs in that outfield?

This is just them helping their outfield defense so the team can rely on an unreliable pitching staff.

Not to mention the gaping hole at SS right now.

If I were a Cubs fan, I'd be really pissed tonight.

DumpJerry
12-20-2005, 11:27 PM
Freddie Garcia is happy tonight.

santo=dorf
12-20-2005, 11:28 PM
So let's see, in 2006 the Flubs will have Corey Patterson starting in CF and Corey Patterson II starting in RF?

That will be as confusing as all heck!
No, Pierre is in center.

Jim "the genius" Hendry is apparently satisfied with giving more than $2.5 million to a 4th OF instead of non-tendering him.

Jones is a free swinging hack who can't get on base, strikes out a ton, is horrible during the day, and his road numbers the past few seasons have been ****ty making me wonder how much of his average is due to slamming the ball into the turf ala Cristian Guzman.

Horrible signing for the Cubs, but at least Hangar won't have to worry about them getting El Caballo next year. :rolleyes:

34rancher
12-20-2005, 11:30 PM
Go take a look at his stats. And if you still think he'd be a good option of us, well, YIKES!
His stats were no worse than Aaron's. His 23 home runs would be nice. And the 73 rbi's woul be good also. Defensively, he would be a good pickup. I would have taken him, since I think he would fit Grinder ball with Ozzie.

I know I will get ripped for this one, but I say we offer something to the Cubs and take Mr. Patterson off their hands. I think that Ozzie and the coaching staff would be amazing for him.

The other thing I learned today is that the Cubs just became the fastest outfield in MLB. Patterson, Pierre, and Jones? Blazing.

Banix12
12-20-2005, 11:31 PM
This is a decent signing by the Scrubs. It addresses a major need and they really arent paying that much. 3 years/16 million?? C'mon guys this isnt 1994, thats a pretty good deal for a above-average OF. Damon just signed for 4/52!
I consider this on par with the SOX Jermaine Dye signing, everyone laughs now, but stay tuned. I give the Cubs credit on their last 2 moves, Pierre and Jones.
On the other hand..Howry and Eyre?? I cant wait till they come to the Cell next season.

It's a matter of upside. Jermaine Dye had a huge upside because when healthy he had put up all-star quality numbers and the risk was minimal because of the cost. If you look at both the guys the cubs are giving up on, Burnitz and Patterson, they are both capable at putting up the same numbers that Jones is putting up. But Patterson is younger and has a much higher upside and Burnitz has shown the ability to put up numbers greater than what Jones can put up in the recent past.

For the cubs, Jacque Jones is a lateral move and they needed improvement, not more of the same.

Damon can get 4/52 because he has the leadoff bat and thanks to Furcal 13 mil became the going rate for leadoff men. And after these signings I give a ton of credit to the cubs for the Pierre deal. They gave up a lot of pitching talent but the cost for next year is more reasonable.

I'm not as negative on the Howry and Eyre signings though, with a has-been like Todd Jones getting 5 million a year overpaying a bit for those two isn't so bad.

ilsox7
12-20-2005, 11:32 PM
His stats were no worse than Aaron's. His 23 home runs would be nice. And the 73 rbi's woul be good also. Defensively, he would be a good pickup. I would have taken him, since I think he would fit Grinder ball with Ozzie.

I know I will get ripped for this one, but I say we offer something to the Cubs and take Mr. Patterson off their hands. I think that Ozzie and the coaching staff would be amazing for him.

The other thing I learned today is that the Cubs just became the fastest outfield in MLB. Patterson, Pierre, and Jones? Blazing.

How about that .249 batting average, .319 OBP, and 120 K's? The guy is awful. And he's even worse during the day and on the road.

ilsox7
12-20-2005, 11:35 PM
And after these signings I give a ton of credit to the cubs for the Pierre deal. They gave up a lot of pitching talent but the cost for next year is more reasonable.



The problem with the Pierre trade is they gave up 3 legitimate MLB pitchers for a 1 year rental in CF. And if they decide to sign Pierre to an extension, then they just sent the message that Pie is not their CF of the future. And if he is not their CF of the future, you think they would have traded him by now while his value is ultra high.

The bullpen moves were decent. They overpaid, but they did not have a choice. The Pierre trade and Jones signing just don't make much sense, unless Hendry has some magical stuff up his sleeve in the next couple of months.

santo=dorf
12-20-2005, 11:36 PM
His stats were no worse than Aaron's. His 23 home runs would be nice. And the 73 rbi's woul be good also. Defensively, he would be a good pickup. I would have taken him, since I think he would fit Grinder ball with Ozzie.


So 23 Home runs and 73 RBI's (that's not that impressive) makes up for a line of .249/.319/.438 along with 120 K's? :?:

The Deacon
12-20-2005, 11:42 PM
How about that .249 batting average, .319 OBP, and 120 K's? The guy is awful. And he's even worse during the day and on the road.

He's a career 280 hitter. Fortunately, in the modern era, you get to bat at home AND at night.

Banix12
12-20-2005, 11:43 PM
The problem with the Pierre trade is they gave up 3 legitimate MLB pitchers for a 1 year rental in CF. And if they decide to sign Pierre to an extension, then they just sent the message that Pie is not their CF of the future. And if he is not their CF of the future, you think they would have traded him by now while his value is ultra high.

The bullpen moves were decent. They overpaid, but they did not have a choice. The Pierre trade and Jones signing just don't make much sense, unless Hendry has some magical stuff up his sleeve in the next couple of months.

I would personally overpay with prospects than overpay to the tune of 13 million bucks a year. Maybe they will have to pay him that anyway but at least they will be given the option of negotiating with him as a current player and not as a free agent. At least for this year.

Pie probably still works into their plans I think but I think the cubs may be finally realizing that he doesn't seem to have the tools to be a leadoff man. Pie is only 20 years old and he still has plenty of time to develop. I think it would be best for the cubs to not rush him to the majors the way they did Corey.

santo=dorf
12-20-2005, 11:46 PM
He's a career 280 hitter. Fortunately, in the modern era, you get to bat at home AND at night.

......and in the modern era we tend to look at stats other than just batting average to judge players.

The point about him being ****ty in the day time was made because the question was "why is this a bad signing for the Cubs?"

How many more day games do the Cubs play than the average MLB team?

Banix12
12-20-2005, 11:46 PM
He's a career 280 hitter. Fortunately, in the modern era, you get to bat at home AND at night.

That's misleading because in the last 4 years he has had two years where he hit over .300 and two years after that where he hit under .260.

Like I said, if he finds a way to revert back to his 2002-2003 form then this deal could be a bargain. However if he maintains the form he has had the last two seasons this is a bad deal which is essentially a lateral move from what they already had.

ilsox7
12-20-2005, 11:50 PM
He's a career 280 hitter. Fortunately, in the modern era, you get to bat at home AND at night.

Basically the same points a couple of others made. Cubs play an inordinate amount of day games, hence my comment regarding that. Even in the years Jones hit .300, his OBP never reached .350. He is on the decline and playing a schedule with a ton of day games. Take a look at those splits and the nightmare only continues to grow. May want to look at his numbers against lefties too.

The Deacon
12-20-2005, 11:50 PM
......and in the modern era we tend to look at stats other than just batting average to judge players.

The point about him being ****ty in the day time was made because the question was "why is this a bad signing for the Cubs?"

How many more day games do the Cubs play than the average MLB team?

Well, I dont dislike people just because the sign with the Cubs.

If you're judging a player about his stats regarding Cubs day games vs. other teams average, I think youre on the wrong track. You might even have Bill James disagree with you on that one. Its ludicrious.

Mohoney
12-20-2005, 11:51 PM
2 years, $10 million is about as high as I would go on Jones. Otherwise, it would make more sense to me to just pick up Burnitz's option to buy some more time with Pie and give him the inside track for the job in '07.

3 years is a pretty big logjam for Pie to get around, especially if Jones hits in the .250 range with under 80 RBI again, and he then can't be moved without the Cubs eating some money on those final 2 years.

ilsox7
12-20-2005, 11:53 PM
Well, I dont dislike people just because the sign with the Cubs.

If you're judging a player about his stats regarding Cubs day games vs. other teams average, I think youre on the wrong track. You might even have Bill James disagree with you on that one. Its ludicrious.

Over the last 3 years, Jones has played a significant amount of day games. His numbers in those games are significantly lower than his numbers in night games. It certainly is a reasonable use of statistics to say that now that he is playing even more day games, his numbers are likely to suffer.

The Deacon
12-20-2005, 11:53 PM
......and in the modern era we tend to look at stats other than just batting average to judge players.

The point about him being ****ty in the day time was made because the question was "why is this a bad signing for the Cubs?"

How many more day games do the Cubs play than the average MLB team?

And I'm also sure that players are judged in the modern era on more than their 'day game stats'

santo=dorf
12-20-2005, 11:55 PM
Well, I dont dislike people just because the sign with the Cubs.

If you're judging a player about his stats regarding Cubs day games vs. other teams average, I think youre on the wrong track. You might even have Bill James disagree with you on that one. Its ludicrious.

:?:
I showed his line from 2005 proving that he was a ****ty player regardless of the time of day. I was just answering the question "Why is this a bad signing for the Cubs?"

I'm not a stat freak, and certainly not a fan of Bill James, but the fact is the guy doesn't get on base. Shawn Dunston used to bat .300 but have an OBP of .319.

Neifi Perez was close to a .300 hitter last season. I suppose he's worth the money the Cubs threw at him too?

Banix12
12-20-2005, 11:55 PM
Well, I dont dislike people just because the sign with the Cubs.

If you're judging a player about his stats regarding Cubs day games vs. other teams average, I think youre on the wrong track. You might even have Bill James disagree with you on that one. Its ludicrious.

I'm looking at this pretty objectively and what I am seeing is a player who has been in decline each of the last three years. Now certainly I think there might have been an issue of protection in the lineup since the Twins lineup has gotten weaker and weaker each year but even if that factored into his decline, the overall trend shows Jones isn't a player attractive enough to tie up for three years.

ilsox7
12-20-2005, 11:57 PM
I'm looking at this pretty objectively and what I am seeing is a player who has been in decline each of the last three years. Now certainly I think there might have been an issue of protection in the lineup since the Twins lineup has gotten weaker and weaker each year but even if that factored into his decline, the overall trend shows Jones isn't a player attractive enough to tie up for three years.

And this is pretty much what Cub fans are saying. I am not Cubsessed, but made my comments based on this being a bad baseball move. Jones, used as a platoon player on a 1 or 2 year deal, would have been a decent move. At 3 years, he blocks Pie if Pierre is extended. Or he becomes an expensive back-up. Picking up the Burnitz option and trading or signing someone next year is the better move.

santo=dorf
12-20-2005, 11:57 PM
And I'm also sure that players are judged in the modern era on more than their 'day game stats'

Why is this so hard for you to understand?

The stats show Jones is not that great of a hitter, and even worse during the day.
Using this information one can draw the conclusion that this is not a good signing for the CUBS!

Hitmen77
12-21-2005, 12:01 AM
He's a career 280 hitter. Fortunately, in the modern era, you get to bat at home AND at night.

Did I miss something? Don't the Cubs play a bunch of games during the day?

Also, it may be that his "home" average won't be so great when the "home" field doesn't have fake turf.

HebrewHammer
12-21-2005, 12:02 AM
How long is it until we see "Jonze" jerseys at The Urinal?

FarWestChicago
12-21-2005, 12:04 AM
:whocares

Really, who the **** cares? Oh yeah:

:crossdresser

asboog
12-21-2005, 12:25 AM
The Flubs just added Jacque Jones

link (http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051220&content_id=1285214&vkey=hotstove2005&fext=.jsp)

and i am stupid and can't speak english sorry about the thread title

Banix12
12-21-2005, 12:50 AM
The Trib planting a seed of doubt in fans about the new OF? A straight up comparison between Burnitz and Jones.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-051220joneschart,1,6712524.htmlstory?coll=cs-home-headlines

RallyBowl
12-21-2005, 01:15 AM
The White Sox are World Champions. The Bears are on their way to the playoffs. And the cubs still suck. Really bad, while spending more money to do it. All is well.

TomBradley72
12-21-2005, 01:15 AM
A good signing for 1 year. An OK signing for two. Committing to this guy for 3 years? Idiocy. They were forced into this deal by the Royals (who offered 3/15)....how pathetic do you have to be to succumb to a bidding war with the Kansas City Royals? Where is Hendry's "plan"?

Jerome
12-21-2005, 01:31 AM
A Cub fan friend of mine suggested Hendry use the excess payroll he had this offseason to frontload new contracts for Prior, Zambrano and Lee. Not overpay for another season of mediocrity with Howry, Eyre, NEIFI, and now Jones.

Hendry should have let Murton and Cedeno get a year under their belts in 2006, re-sign cornerstones like Lee, Prior and Z and then target needs for the 2007 team. This would also allow Pie to develop and allow you to see what he can bring to the MLB club, and saves them the two draft picks they sent to FLA for Pierre, and the 2nd, 3rd and 4th round future draft picks they lost in FA signings this offseason.

Hendry should have rolled over his excess 2006 payroll into 2007 acquisitions because the team he assembled will not be contenders in 2006 and because after this season, he will have to replace 40% of his starting rotation (Wood and Maddux), find a new third baseman (if Aramis opts out of his contract and becomes a FA), a new first baseman, a new second baseman, and replacements for Cedeno, Murton and/or Pie if they don't succeed.


Sorry, but that makes too much baseball sense for the Cubbies. Plus, it would give the fans the illusion that they are purposely tanking in 06.

Did they really lose all those draft picks this offseason?

DrCrawdad
12-21-2005, 01:51 AM
That's misleading because in the last 4 years he has had two years where he hit over .300 and two years after that where he hit under .260.

Like I said, if he finds a way to revert back to his 2002-2003 form then this deal could be a bargain. However if he maintains the form he has had the last two seasons this is a bad deal which is essentially a lateral move from what they already had.

Offensively, Jones led Burnitz in only triples, stolen bases and SLG (and in that Jones beat Burnitz only by .003). Jones is 6 years younger, so Jones could possibly improve. Overall I'd say this is at best a lateral move by the Cubs, probably a downgrade over Burnitz.

DrCrawdad
12-21-2005, 01:52 AM
The Trib planting a seed of doubt in fans about the new OF? A straight up comparison between Burnitz and Jones.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-051220joneschart,1,6712524.htmlstory?coll=cs-home-headlines

Very revealing comparison.

ChiSoxLifer
12-21-2005, 02:15 AM
His stats were no worse than Aaron's. His 23 home runs would be nice. And the 73 rbi's woul be good also. Defensively, he would be a good pickup. I would have taken him, since I think he would fit Grinder ball with Ozzie.

I know I will get ripped for this one, but I say we offer something to the Cubs and take Mr. Patterson off their hands. I think that Ozzie and the coaching staff would be amazing for him.

The other thing I learned today is that the Cubs just became the fastest outfield in MLB. Patterson, Pierre, and Jones? Blazing.

If their pitchers get hurt again they're going to need all that speed. Unfortunately, you can't catch up to home run balls.

D. TODD
12-21-2005, 02:30 AM
Wow! They can have him. Murton, Pierre, & Jones in the outfeild doesn't exactly strike fear in my heart.

IowaSox1971
12-21-2005, 02:50 AM
His stats were no worse than Aaron's. His 23 home runs would be nice. And the 73 rbi's woul be good also. Defensively, he would be a good pickup. I would have taken him, since I think he would fit Grinder ball with Ozzie.

I know I will get ripped for this one, but I say we offer something to the Cubs and take Mr. Patterson off their hands. I think that Ozzie and the coaching staff would be amazing for him.

The other thing I learned today is that the Cubs just became the fastest outfield in MLB. Patterson, Pierre, and Jones? Blazing.


I agree that it would be a good move for us to get Patterson at a cheap price.

peeonwrigley
12-21-2005, 03:14 AM
I agree that it would be a good move for us to get Patterson at a cheap price.
I think he needs out of this city.

He's been beat up in the media to the point of no return for his confidence. If he struggled early for the Sox, it would be like deja vu for him.

Plus, he might just never regain the form he had before his injury in '03.

Exit_Only
12-21-2005, 03:37 AM
Sorry, but that makes too much baseball sense for the Cubbies. Plus, it would give the fans the illusion that they are purposely tanking in 06.

Did they really lose all those draft picks this offseason?
I'm sorry, the Cubs didn't lose all the draft picks I stated. They did lose their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th round picks, as I said, but the other two draft picks I referred to in my post were inaccurate. They were pitching prospects, not future draft picks. They gave up Mitre, Nolasco and Pinto.

What I meant to say was the Cubs shouldn't have made those moves this offseason and have kept the draft picks AND prospects, save for Mitre who sucks.

MHOUSE
12-21-2005, 06:17 AM
Jones killed the Sox every time we played Minnesota. I can recall him hitting more than one key game-tying or game-winning homerun against us. Glad we'll only see him 6 times a year, maybe less as he might sit against Buehrle. Twins continue to get weaker.....

BeviBall!
12-21-2005, 08:40 AM
Great player, terrible field for him to play at. What are we looking at? 14 HRs?

Tekijawa
12-21-2005, 09:39 AM
Congratulations Cubs, You just signed a slower Corey Patterson to a 3 year $16 Million Dollar Contract.

itsnotrequired
12-21-2005, 09:43 AM
Congratulations Cubs, You just signed a slower Corey Patterson to a 3 year $16 Million Dollar Contract.

The real congratulations are in order when Patterson is back through arbitration. A truly mighty outfield is being put together on the other side of town.

:rolleyes:

Over By There
12-21-2005, 09:48 AM
Dear Jacques:

Congratulations on your new contract! Here's hoping you enjoy the same success as LaTroy Hawkins as you transition from the Twins to the Cubs...

Best wishes,
OBT

Hangar18
12-21-2005, 09:51 AM
Wow, this thread has 5 pages of replies and comments
all pretty spot-on I must add

wdelaney72
12-21-2005, 10:07 AM
Patterson and Jones seem to very similar players at the plate, but Jones is better defensively.

Still, Jones is now overpaid and will soon become the most over-rated RF in baseball.

Me thinks next year Jones and Patterson have very comparable statistics.

34rancher
12-21-2005, 10:19 AM
I think he needs out of this city.

He's been beat up in the media to the point of no return for his confidence. If he struggled early for the Sox, it would be like deja vu for him.

Plus, he might just never regain the form he had before his injury in '03.
Valid points, however, I think that going to the Sox is leaving town in the media's mind. They don't cover us anyways. On a serious note, I think the biggest difference is that Ozzie would take bullets for Patterson from the media, instead of using his son to do that. I think Ozzie would call them out and give Patterson a legit shot at being a good major leaguer. I just know that we need either a left fielder or center fielder, and while it appears that Brian Anderson has the job, I am not willing to let a season like the one we are setting ourselves up for disappear because we don't have a backup plan for a rookie. I think that Patterson would be a nice insurance plan for speed also since we have let Willie, Timo, Blum, and Aaron go. Just thoughts.

PAPChiSox729
12-21-2005, 10:36 AM
Jones killed the Sox every time we played Minnesota. I can recall him hitting more than one key game-tying or game-winning homerun against us.

That homer off of Garcia to end his no-hit bid was the first one that came to mind.

Flight #24
12-21-2005, 10:43 AM
Wow. $5M for a .319 hitting OF? That's a steal!

oh wait, that's his OBP?


Never mind.:kneeslap:

ma-gaga
12-21-2005, 11:35 AM
uh yeah. Some good points made, some stupid anti-cubs ranting which clouds the mind. Jacque Jones is:

A great platoon candidate, he CRUSHES righties, and is pathetic against lefties.
He would be a very good hitting centerfielder. Plugged into a corner outfield spot, he's a detriment with the bat.
He has no plate discipline. He's the classic 'all or nothing' swing from the heels player. Without the great power. If he hit 5-10 more homers a year, he'd be great. He's not there yet.
However, he's a great defender. He tracks down and catches everything hit in his zone.
However, he has a terrible arm. He constantly overthrows cutoff men, or fires bullets 25 feet up the line. Good strength, no control.
He's a great clubhouse guy. Always smiling, never says anything wrong. Does a little batflip, but nothing too annoying/show-uppance.
A pretty good deal for what he got. 3 years $16MM is about $10MM less than what I'd thought he'd get, and I don't have a problem with this deal.
He's fairly young for a FA. 30 years old, and a 3 year deal isn't bad at all. Ignoring the prospects he's blocking, I think he'll give the Cubs good value for his contract length.Feel free to correct me if you want, but I've seen enough of him over the last 5 years to have a pretty good idea of what kind of player he is. He's decent, and probably a little above average (60th percentile) for an outfielder, but he's not a "special" player.

:cool:

Hangar18
12-21-2005, 11:39 AM
Patterson and Jones seem to very similar players at the plate, but Jones is better defensively.

Still, Jones is now overpaid and will soon become the most over-rated RF in baseball.



The **** did overpay to sign Jacques Jones, but overpaying to the **** is like saying Donald Trump paying $10 dollars for a big mac is overpaying.
It doesnt matter to the Tribune Entertainment Corporation, which by the way, PRINTS MONEY over at Clark & Addison.
Jacques Jones is going to hit .300/25 HR's, (book it) albeit against bogus National League pitching and yes, will become the most Over Rated RF in the NL, as well as instantly become the most beloved RF in Chicago. I kind of wished he held out and soaked them for more $$$$$.

slavko
12-21-2005, 12:01 PM
Anyone notice that the Paul Sullivan story about acquiring Jones described him as "personable", which is the same word Paul used to describe Juan Pierre when he was acquired? Those Cute Little Bears sure are Nice. So are you, Paul.

A word about Corey: Picking him up when we have a slew of young OF'ers ready to bring up would be counterproductive. I wish him well, elsewhere.

TomBradley72
12-21-2005, 12:08 PM
uh yeah. Some good points made, some stupid anti-cubs ranting which clouds the mind. Jacque Jones is:

A great platoon candidate, he CRUSHES righties, and is pathetic against lefties.
He would be a very good hitting centerfielder. Plugged into a corner outfield spot, he's a detriment with the bat.
He has no plate discipline. He's the classic 'all or nothing' swing from the heels player. Without the great power. If he hit 5-10 more homers a year, he'd be great. He's not there yet.
However, he's a great defender. He tracks down and catches everything hit in his zone.
However, he has a terrible arm. He constantly overthrows cutoff men, or fires bullets 25 feet up the line. Good strength, no control.
He's a great clubhouse guy. Always smiling, never says anything wrong. Does a little batflip, but nothing too annoying/show-uppance.
A pretty good deal for what he got. 3 years $16MM is about $10MM less than what I'd thought he'd get, and I don't have a problem with this deal.
He's fairly young for a FA. 30 years old, and a 3 year deal isn't bad at all. Ignoring the prospects he's blocking, I think he'll give the Cubs good value for his contract length.Feel free to correct me if you want, but I've seen enough of him over the last 5 years to have a pretty good idea of what kind of player he is. He's decent, and probably a little above average (60th percentile) for an outfielder, but he's not a "special" player.

:cool:

Not correcting you....but after giving up three pitchers, a draft choice and locking into Jones for 3/16....do the Cubs really see a major upside to Pierre/Jones vs. Patterson/Burnitz? Looks like an improvement to me....but I think they overpaid. I guess it depends on what they get back for Patterson.

Flight #24
12-21-2005, 12:56 PM
Saw a rumor that the Mariners are offering Gil Meche to Korey. To be followed by them offering Jeremy Reed to Bronson Arroyo. Hilarious for all involved - a shuffling of AAA caliber guys.

Hangar18
12-21-2005, 01:03 PM
Anyone notice that the Paul Sullivan story about acquiring Jones described him as "personable", which is the same word Paul used to describe Juan Pierre when he was acquired? Those Cute Little Bears sure are Nice. So are you, Paul.




Whew, Glad I didnt post this first. This is a good catch Slavko. I IMMEDIATELY noticed that. Begs the question, Why the pushing of their players as Personable? "They got a WS Trophy, but we still have sell-out crowds and personable players!" Wouldnt be because our Manager has become a national media-favorite does it? hmmmmmmmm

TaylorStSox
12-21-2005, 04:17 PM
Nothing like a 6 page Cubs thread. You guys are back. :?:

Stoky44
12-21-2005, 04:44 PM
When I read the title to the thread, all I keep thinking of is The Simpsons. When Moe is looking for "Strap, Jacques Strap. Come on everybody has anyone seen Jacques Strap." It also doesn't help many people called him "Jock" earlier.

slavko
12-21-2005, 07:17 PM
Whew, Glad I didnt post this first. This is a good catch Slavko. I IMMEDIATELY noticed that. Begs the question, Why the pushing of their players as Personable? "They got a WS Trophy, but we still have sell-out crowds and personable players!" Wouldnt be because our Manager has become a national media-favorite does it? hmmmmmmmm

Bingo. So what else is new? I'd rant, but I don't have the time. Later.

SOXSINCE'70
12-21-2005, 09:30 PM
"Hendry's just showing there are two GM's in this town"...

Yes, there are.....John Paxson and Kenny Williams. :D:

What about Jerry Angelo??:dunno: :dunno:

SOXSINCE'70
12-21-2005, 09:34 PM
That homer off of Garcia to end his no-hit bid was the first one that came to mind.

Remember that 4 game series at home against the Twinks
in September?? Johan Santana and Brandon McCarthy dueled
to a 1-1 tie.The Sox had a 1-0 lead after Crede homered.
"Jock" Jones tied the game with his own solo shot the next inning.
He then drove in at least 1 go ahead run in extra innings to give
the Twnks their only win in that series,IIRC.

slavko
12-22-2005, 01:50 PM
Whew, Glad I didnt post this first. This is a good catch Slavko. I IMMEDIATELY noticed that. Begs the question, Why the pushing of their players as Personable? "They got a WS Trophy, but we still have sell-out crowds and personable players!" Wouldnt be because our Manager has become a national media-favorite does it? hmmmmmmmm

You notice how everytime there's a positive story about the Sox, there's always something negative stuck in there for "balance?" (AJ signs for 3 years, blah, blah, he wasn't a pain-in-the-ass after all.) or (Paulie signs for 5 years, blah, blah, Ozzie did his homework and found he wasn't really a clubhouse cancer.)

While I'm going off here, the fine Roger Angell post-season article in New Yorker that was discussed in an earlier thread on this board mentioned that the club had flown 2 planeloads of Sox employees to the WS games in Houston. Did that ever appear in the Chicago media? Why not, because it might show ownership in a different light than Chicago media wants them portrayed?

So much bushwa, so little time.