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soxfan13
12-15-2005, 11:01 AM
Is there any deal in the past you wish could be undone. For example a trade that was made, a player that wasnt resigned, a player released? I will start by wishing the Sox would have resigned Robin Ventura and he could have retired a White Sox.

Tekijawa
12-15-2005, 11:05 AM
I wish they could undo the Whole releasing of Fisk Fiasco! That was handled completely wrong and Disrespectfully. He's a Class act and still lives in Chicago, but because of how this was handled he will be a Red Sox Player first in his mind!

soxfan13
12-15-2005, 11:12 AM
Agreed that should have been handled alot lot better. I think that them not letting him in the clubhouse come playoff time pissed him off more.

Frankly Missing
12-15-2005, 11:13 AM
Ray Durham.

salty99
12-15-2005, 11:13 AM
The White Flag trade :(:

RallyBowl
12-15-2005, 11:39 AM
I think that every move ever made in this organization has brought us to this point, being the World Champions. I wouldn't change anything, because then we might not have won it all this year. Of course, we might have won it sooner, but I seriously doubt that.
Having said that, my vote is Frank.

bobowhite
12-15-2005, 11:54 AM
I think Fisk deserved better. I think he still deserves better. If I was to become a part-owner of the team, the one thing I would suggest to JR is to call Fisk, apologize to him for past snubs and ask him if he'd be willing to a) come to ST to work with the catchers in the org and b) during the season be a part-time catcher coach, as in do a little mentoring of catchers throughout the organization whenever he wishes to. Salary is his call. It's a bargain at any price.

Goose
12-15-2005, 11:57 AM
Ummm...a certain Todd Ritchie comes to mind.:?:

skottyj242
12-15-2005, 12:18 PM
Ummm...a certain Todd Ritchie comes to mind.:?:

You read my mind.

BNLSox
12-15-2005, 12:34 PM
Folke, Ventura, Durham, Thomas. To name a few.

But we're champs, so why complain?

Chez
12-15-2005, 12:35 PM
Ummm...a certain Todd Ritchie comes to mind.:?:

Todd Ritchie was a bust; but I doubt retaining Kip Wells, Josh Fogg or Sean Lowe would have altered White Sox history (for the better).

Signing Jaime Navarro to a multi-year deal gets my vote.

BeviBall!
12-15-2005, 12:37 PM
Throwing the 1919 WS?

skottyj242
12-15-2005, 12:39 PM
The whole David Wells fiasco would have been nice to forget.

Rocky Soprano
12-15-2005, 12:41 PM
I wish we could of seen Thomas retire wearing a Sox uniform.
But I am happy with all the moves KW has done.

Minnie Me
12-15-2005, 12:53 PM
I wish they would have kept Carl Everett and I hope they resign him. He was a solid LH bat for us last year and a savvy runner on the base paths. He was a power hitting switch hitter which is a rare commodity. I suspect the Yankees will sign him and he could be a force there just like Oscar Gamble after leaving the Sox. He was adequate if left field and better than Charlie Maxwell in the field. He should have started in left field every Sunday.

Rocky Soprano
12-15-2005, 12:55 PM
I wish they would have kept Carl Everett and I hope they resign him. He was a solid LH bat for us last year and a savvy runner on the base paths. He was a power hitting switch hitter which is a rare commodity. I suspect the Yankees will sign him and he could be a force there just like Oscar Gamble after leaving the Sox. He was adequate if left field and better than Charlie Maxwell in the field. He should have started in left field every Sunday.

He signed with Seattle:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=63778

skottyj242
12-15-2005, 12:56 PM
I wish they would have kept Carl Everett and I hope they resign him. He was a solid LH bat for us last year and a savvy runner on the base paths. He was a power hitting switch hitter which is a rare commodity. I suspect the Yankees will sign him and he could be a force there just like Oscar Gamble after leaving the Sox. He was adequate if left field and better than Charlie Maxwell in the field. He should have started in left field every Sunday.

For one, where would he play? Two, IF the Sox wanted to sign him they couldn't until May first. Third, he just signed with Seattle.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-15-2005, 12:57 PM
Sammy Sosa!

CluelessJoe1919
12-15-2005, 01:41 PM
I wish they could undo the Whole releasing of Fisk Fiasco! That was handled completely wrong and Disrespectfully. He's a Class act and still lives in Chicago, but because of how this was handled he will be a Red Sox Player first in his mind!
Carlton Fisk was a total jerk in his final months with the White Sox. He should not have been playing yet kept yelling to be in the lineup. He was a selfish player well beyond his prime.
He should have been thanking JR for allowing him to get that HR record.

Tekijawa
12-15-2005, 01:44 PM
Carlton Fisk was a total jerk in his final months with the White Sox. He should not have been playing yet kept yelling to be in the lineup. He was a selfish player well beyond his prime.
He should have been thanking JR for allowing him to get that HR record.

Hope Steff doesn't read this...

tacosalbarojas
12-15-2005, 01:47 PM
Since we just passed the 5 year anniversary of the deal, I'll go with "the Choice"

caulfield12
12-15-2005, 01:51 PM
Is there any deal in the past you wish could be undone. For example a trade that was made, a player that wasnt resigned, a player released? I will start by wishing the Sox would have resigned Robin Ventura and he could have retired a White Sox.

White Flag Trade
Durham for Adkins
Baldwin for Berry-Barry and Masaoka
Ritchie deal
Signing Albert Belle
Signing David Wells
Sosa-Bell
Koch-Cotts for Foulke (although happy now with Cotts)
Jaime Navarro signing

RetireWoodys28
12-15-2005, 04:41 PM
As a kid, I was crushed when the Sox lost Chet Lemon to the Tigers and equally distraught when we let Harold Baines get away (the 1st time, anyway). But the worst day of my Sox fan life was the day we lost Robin Ventura.

These days, all this talk of Tejada makes me nervous. I would be very upset if the Sox sever ties with Uribe any time soon. IMO Juan Uribe is the best defensive SS in baseball (like Robin was the best 3B of his day), and I don't want to imagine a Sox infield without him!

CluelessJoe1919
12-15-2005, 07:13 PM
As a kid, I was crushed when the Sox lost Chet Lemon to the Tigers and equally distraught when we let Harold Baines get away (the 1st time, anyway). But the worst day of my Sox fan life was the day we lost Robin Ventura.

These days, all this talk of Tejada makes me nervous. I would be very upset if the Sox sever ties with Uribe any time soon. IMO Juan Uribe is the best defensive SS in baseball (like Robin was the best 3B of his day), and I don't want to imagine a Sox infield without him!
I love Uribe too. But, heck, Tejada might drive in twice as many runs as he will next season. If they can get Tejada, I say make the deal.

Steelrod
12-15-2005, 07:28 PM
I think Fisk deserved better. I think he still deserves better. If I was to become a part-owner of the team, the one thing I would suggest to JR is to call Fisk, apologize to him for past snubs and ask him if he'd be willing to a) come to ST to work with the catchers in the org and b) during the season be a part-time catcher coach, as in do a little mentoring of catchers throughout the organization whenever he wishes to. Salary is his call. It's a bargain at any price.
Mentoring means you are there when you are needed, not when YOU feel like it!
If you knew the man, you would know he is way short on people skills. Not the kind of personality for working with young players. I am glad that you would pay him whatever he wanted to do nothing, which is what Boston did to earn his HOF cap.

Shafe72
12-15-2005, 08:04 PM
Carlton Fisk was a total jerk in his final months with the White Sox. He should not have been playing yet kept yelling to be in the lineup. He was a selfish player well beyond his prime.
He should have been thanking JR for allowing him to get that HR record.

The way the Fisk situation played out, on both sides, was incredibly juvenile.

Fisk, as much as we all loved him, did not always handle himself with class.
JR et. al. had treated him badly for much of the time he played, especially from Hawk's tenure as GM on...

All it would have taken would've been either Fisk or the Sox organization deciding to take the high road and show some class.

soxfanatlanta
12-15-2005, 08:44 PM
Signing Jaime Navarro to a multi-year deal gets my vote.

Ugh...you had to bring up that name. Highest starter ERA in the league two years in a row, absolute poison in the clubhouse. This was an absolute stinker.

Hitmen77
12-15-2005, 09:31 PM
Folke, Ventura, Durham, Thomas. To name a few.

But we're champs, so why complain?

Koch was terrible - no argument there. But, we got Neal Cotts out of that Foulke trade - a pretty damn good pick up. Without the trade, Foulke would have walked as a FA anyway. The way I see it, if you can undo the Foulke trade, all that means at this point is that you eliminate Cotts from our roster.

Hitmen77
12-15-2005, 09:34 PM
I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet but ...(drum roll).... signing Jaime Navarro instead of Roger Clemens. This was a terrible, terrible decision and wrecked our franchise for many years afterwards.

Beauty35thStreet
12-15-2005, 10:24 PM
Losing Foulke in the short term did hurt us, but what would we have done? Flash was pretty damn good. I think Minnesota still would have beat us that year. Takatsu was lights out when he played in 04. Cotts was an excellent pick-up, future starter. Foulke was reliable for one thing---being unreliable in big time situations for the White Sox. He managed to be very good for the As and BoSox, but I feel we had his skills covered with Flash and Takatsu. If Cotts was bad, then I say the deal was bad.

I wish we sent off Pudge better. I personally wish he'd have stayed the whole year.

Todd Ritchie for Kip Wells was bad even though Wells hasn't done much past 6 wins. David Wells for Sirotka only wasn't bad because Sirotka couldn't play anyways, however it was nice to pop one off him in Game 2.

I can't stand the Royce Clayton pick-up. That was dumb. Putting Valentine in CF for Clayton stunk. Maybe this could have been avoided if ARow wasn't playing Evil Kanevel.

FarWestChicago
12-15-2005, 10:34 PM
He managed to be very good for the As and BoSox...He did the same thing for the A's he did for the Sox.

Huisj
12-15-2005, 11:43 PM
Todd Ritchie was a bust; but I doubt retaining Kip Wells, Josh Fogg or Sean Lowe would have altered White Sox history (for the better).



Maybe I'm stretching things a bit here, but what if the sox had kept Wells and Fogg? Would they have made the moves that eventually led to the killer starting staff . . .

-Would they have traded for Colon and signed Loaiza, or would they instead have stuck with mediocre Wells and Fogg?

-If they hadn't signed Loaiza, they wouldn't have traded him for Contrares, because it's doubtful the Yankees would want Wells or Fogg in that deadline deal.

-If they hadn't traded for Colon and then lost him as a FA, would they have had the opening in the rotation in '04 to want to trade for Garcia, or again, would they have stuck with the mediocre Fogg or Wells.

Ok that's a lot of what-ifs, but it kind of shows how the championship staff wasn't built in a day, or even a year. It involved years of moves that all came as the result of the moves made before.

CluelessJoe1919
12-16-2005, 04:56 PM
The way the Fisk situation played out, on both sides, was incredibly juvenile.

Fisk, as much as we all loved him, did not always handle himself with class.
JR et. al. had treated him badly for much of the time he played, especially from Hawk's tenure as GM on...

All it would have taken would've been either Fisk or the Sox organization deciding to take the high road and show some class.
If I'd have been the GM at that time, I'd have cut him and he never would have gotten that record...I'm actually surprised that the Sox took him back in. He was awful in his waning days.
JR and the Sox showed an amazing amount of class. They let him stick around and get that record even though he was hurting the team.

Gremlin3
12-16-2005, 05:44 PM
Ok that's a lot of what-ifs, but it kind of shows how the championship staff wasn't built in a day, or even a year. It involved years of moves that all came as the result of the moves made before.

I agree. Because of all the moves that were made before that led to last years roster and a WS. As kid though, the 1st Baines trade killed me.

mweflen
12-16-2005, 06:19 PM
Hey, at least we got something good for Navarro in 2000 (Schueler's last big swindle).

Ritchie cost us decent talent and we got squat for him when he was done. I vote Ritchie.

ChiSoxLifer
12-16-2005, 07:54 PM
Sammy Sosa!

Do you mean picking him up or trading him away?

AZSoxFAN
12-16-2005, 08:29 PM
I wish they could undo the Whole releasing of Fisk Fiasco! That was handled completely wrong and Disrespectfully. He's a Class act and still lives in Chicago, but because of how this was handled he will be a Red Sox Player first in his mind!

That release has been in my craw since it happened, and as big a fan as I am, I haven't been to Comisky since. It took a really big idiot to make Pudge a Red Sox again, but Jerry made it happen. I understand they released him on the road (Cleveland), and didn't let him go back to Chi with the team. He also wasn't allowed in the clubhouse that year. MONUMENTAL DISRESPECT for one of the greatest Sox of all time. Just my opinion.

TheKittle
12-16-2005, 08:41 PM
That release has been in my craw since it happened, and as big a fan as I am, I haven't been to Comisky since. It took a really big idiot to make Pudge a Red Sox again, but Jerry made it happen. I understand they released him on the road (Cleveland), and didn't let him go back to Chi with the team. He also wasn't allowed in the clubhouse that year. MONUMENTAL DISRESPECT for one of the greatest Sox of all time. Just my opinion.

Though I agree for the most part, Fisk could be a jerk. He wasn't always the best guy to have in the clubhouse. He wasn't always helpful to the pitchers. "Get that (fill in the blank) over the plate." isn't encouraging pitchers.

CluelessJoe1919
12-17-2005, 12:54 AM
That release has been in my craw since it happened, and as big a fan as I am, I haven't been to Comisky since. It took a really big idiot to make Pudge a Red Sox again, but Jerry made it happen. I understand they released him on the road (Cleveland), and didn't let him go back to Chi with the team. He also wasn't allowed in the clubhouse that year. MONUMENTAL DISRESPECT for one of the greatest Sox of all time. Just my opinion.
Has JR been unfair to Sox players of the past (McDowell, Tommy John, Farmer, Ventura, Donn Paul)?
Don't you think it took a lot of nonsense from Fisk to get JR to react that way?

Steelrod
12-17-2005, 03:54 AM
If I'd have been the GM at that time, I'd have cut him and he never would have gotten that record...I'm actually surprised that the Sox took him back in. He was awful in his waning days.
JR and the Sox showed an amazing amount of class. They let him stick around and get that record even though he was hurting the team.

I 100% agree with you. This man has been cannonized by those who haven't a clue. Why didn't Boston pick him up for the minimum, or anyone else for that matter. He was a jerk and a clubhouse problem. I hope those of you who think he's such a great guy run into him, and don't buy him a drink. You will see for yourselves. I was at Kittle's golf tournament where people paid big bucks to play with the pros. He was unapproachable! BTW pitchers there confided that the DIDN'T like throwing to him because he, not they, controlled the tempo of the game.

Time has passed. Why haven't any of the 30 teams tapped this great well of information, class, and motivation?

Steelrod
12-17-2005, 04:02 AM
That release has been in my craw since it happened, and as big a fan as I am, I haven't been to Comisky since. It took a really big idiot to make Pudge a Red Sox again, but Jerry made it happen. I understand they released him on the road (Cleveland), and didn't let him go back to Chi with the team. He also wasn't allowed in the clubhouse that year. MONUMENTAL DISRESPECT for one of the greatest Sox of all time. Just my opinion.
Haven't been to Comisky?(Comiskey)(New Comiskey(US Cellular), cause you live in AZ. I guess you showed the organization! You haven't missed much! Pudge has been there numerous times and would have probably liked to meet you. (maybe he'd let you buy him a drink!)
Can you honestly believe it was all one sided?
You are either naive or clueless.

CluelessJoe1919
12-17-2005, 01:37 PM
I 100% agree with you. This man has been cannonized by those who haven't a clue. Why didn't Boston pick him up for the minimum, or anyone else for that matter. He was a jerk and a clubhouse problem. I hope those of you who think he's such a great guy run into him, and don't buy him a drink. You will see for yourselves. I was at Kittle's golf tournament where people paid big bucks to play with the pros. He was unapproachable! BTW pitchers there confided that the DIDN'T like throwing to him because he, not they, controlled the tempo of the game.

Time has passed. Why haven't any of the 30 teams tapped this great well of information, class, and motivation?
Good to see some more common sense here. A friend of mine was the media relations director for the Sox years ago and he said that Fisk and Tom Seaver were the two biggest jerk athletes he's ever had to deal with...

I'm fairly new to this site, but a long,long time Sox fan (since birth, but actually since 64 when I can remember), I'm shocked at how Fisk and Frank Thomas (I wanna renegotiate or I'm walking off the field) Thomas get such adulation on here. It's like the two of them never did anything wrong.

Your point about Fisk controlling the tempo of every game was not only aggravating to the pitchers --as you said-- but also an indication he couldn't care less about the fans, either...

However, he was a great player and his getting into Deion Sanders' face that time was priceless.