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NardiWasHere
12-14-2005, 05:52 PM
Watching Sportscenter....

Steve Phillips just said something along the lines of "Sox rotation one of the best ever"..... Did I hear this correctly?


-Ha..... little steep for my taste, similar statement to cub fans saying sosa-alou-crimedog was best 3-4-5 hitter

Best in the MLB? Well we already knew that! hahaha... Just thought this would be a fun disscussion starter..

(Mods: I don't know if this belongs in clubhouse... sorry if it doesn't)

SkeetSkeetAmit
12-14-2005, 05:55 PM
Hey, if they can repeat their success of last year next year... You never know... And if our offense gets even better with the addition of Thome, our pitchers can get even more wins!

Palehose13
12-14-2005, 05:58 PM
Well if we are looking at Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras, Garland, and Vazquez we are looking at five guys who could be the #1 for many clubs out there...and we got 5 of them! If it's not the best ever, I imagine that it might possibly be the most complete/deepest rotation ever.

ShoelessJoeS
12-14-2005, 06:02 PM
If it's not the best ever, I imagine that it might possibly be the most complete/deepest rotation ever.
Very well put, I agree 100%

:bandance:

nodiggity59
12-14-2005, 06:04 PM
Well if we are looking at Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras, Garland, and Vazquez we are looking at five guys who could be the #1 for many clubs out there...and we got 5 of them! If it's not the best ever, I imagine that it might possibly be the most complete/deepest rotation ever.

Going along with that, the Sox may have the best rotation ever in relation to the rest of the rotations at the time, meaning they are "more better" than the average rotation than any rotation has ever been. They are probably not the most talented ever though.

fquaye149
12-14-2005, 06:05 PM
best ever? not a chance - those dodgers and A's rotations of the 60's and 70's probably take cake.

among the best ever? if everyone pitches well, I don't see why not.

best in the league? almost certainly.

Palehose13
12-14-2005, 06:05 PM
Going along with that, the Sox may have the best rotation ever in relation to the rest of the rotations at the time, meaning they are "more better" than the average rotation than any rotation has ever been. They are probably not the most talented ever though.

:hawk
"Your what hurts?"

:D:

Bobbo35
12-14-2005, 08:01 PM
Well if we are looking at Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras, Garland, and Vazquez we are looking at five guys who could be the #1 for many clubs out there...and we got 5 of them! If it's not the best ever, I imagine that it might possibly be the most complete/deepest rotation ever.

That right there is a scary rotation when everyone is dealing, WOW!!!

NardiWasHere
12-14-2005, 08:23 PM
I just loved the fact that Phillips picked the Sox to finish fourth last year and since he admitted he was wrong, he has nothing but praise.

Huisj
12-14-2005, 08:28 PM
if everyone pitches well, I don't see why not.



Come to think of it, if Baldwin, Sirtoka, Parque, Navarro, and Snyder had all pitched well in '99, that one could have gone down in history too as one of the best ever.

HITMEN OF 77
12-14-2005, 08:52 PM
Steve Phillips = Tool Shed.

Soxzilla
12-14-2005, 08:53 PM
I just loved the fact that Phillips picked the Sox to finish fourth last year and since he admitted he was wrong, he has nothing but praise.

Better than him being a poor-sport and continually being cynical towards the White Sox. He should at least be commended for that...


...Excuse me, I need to go shower after saying that.

santo=dorf
12-14-2005, 09:09 PM
http://images.radcity.net/5583/987238.jpg
"no, no, no. I said the best rotation for a 72 win team ever."

Brian26
12-14-2005, 09:31 PM
Watching Sportscenter....

Steve Phillips just said something along the lines of "Sox rotation one of the best ever"..... Did I hear this correctly?

As long as other people are saying it and not the Sox, I don't have a problem with it. When our team starts getting cocky and making these claims (ala Reinsdorf in '84), then its usually a bad omen.

batmanZoSo
12-14-2005, 09:49 PM
Well if we are looking at Buehrle, Garcia, Contreras, Garland, and Vazquez we are looking at five guys who could be the #1 for many clubs out there...and we got 5 of them! If it's not the best ever, I imagine that it might possibly be the most complete/deepest rotation ever.

It's almost interesting to think about. The 5 man rotation is really an innovation of the last 20 years or so, give or take. I mean did the '83 Sox use a set 5-man rotation? I don't think so, correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think I've ever seen a rotation this deep and of this caliber throughout since I've been watching baseball.

fquaye149
12-14-2005, 09:51 PM
Come to think of it, if Baldwin, Sirtoka, Parque, Navarro, and Snyder had all pitched well in '99, that one could have gone down in history too as one of the best ever.

lol. Well put. However, considering their performance last year, I think it's a tadddddd bit more likely this yr.

PKalltheway
12-14-2005, 10:10 PM
best ever? not a chance - those dodgers and A's rotations of the 60's and 70's probably take cake.

among the best ever? if everyone pitches well, I don't see why not.

best in the league? almost certainly.

Don't forget the legendary Baltimore Orioles of the late '60's and early '70's. In 1971, they had four 20 game winners. Amazing.:o: As for our rotation being the best ever, I would have to strongly disagree. We are not even close. We didn't even have a 20 game winner. One thing is for sure though. Our rotation pitched better than any team in playoff history when we had four consecutive complete game victories in the ALCS. That's something I highly doubt you'll ever see again, even if the Sox get back in next year or even win it all again next year!:cool:

Daver
12-14-2005, 10:17 PM
With the addition of Vasquez, the Sox have five pitchers capable of going 200+ innings for the season, I'm not going to crunch the numbers, but I doubt there are many teams that can get 2500 innings out of their starting rotation.

sircaffey1
12-14-2005, 10:19 PM
I believe it has to be the best 5-man rotation ever. When did the 5-man rotation actually become popular. Our rotation is just sick...

Soxzilla
12-14-2005, 10:38 PM
With the addition of Vasquez, the Sox have five pitchers capable of going 200+ innings for the season, I'm not going to crunch the numbers, but I doubt there are many teams that can get 2500 innings out of their starting rotation.

I doubt that as well.:redface:

A. Cavatica
12-14-2005, 10:40 PM
O's had four 20-game winners at one point (Palmer, Cuellar, Dobson, McNally). Edge: those guys.

FarWestChicago
12-14-2005, 10:41 PM
O's had four 20-game winners at one point (Palmer, Cuellar, Dobson, McNally). Edge: those guys.Yeah, who was their fifth starter? :redneck

itsnotrequired
12-14-2005, 10:47 PM
I doubt that as well.:redface:

Are you crazy?! 500 innings by each starter in the rotation is standard!

What's that, you say? Only 1700 innings in a season? Hogwash! I once saw Kerrie Woods throw 2,000 innings himself!

:redneck

Lip Man 1
12-14-2005, 10:53 PM
With respect to the job this group did in 2005 which was remarkable by today's standards but they weren't even the best Sox rotation that I have ever seen in my lifetime.

Look up the numbers of the Sox pitching staffs say from 1963 through 1967. Particularly in 63,64 and 67.

Lip

Tragg
12-14-2005, 11:14 PM
So how would you do a 6 man rotation? 5 days off instead of 4? Every pitcher get a month off during the season, pitching only a few innings a week in the pen? 2 2 week stints off?

Fake Chet Lemon
12-14-2005, 11:19 PM
Will Ozzie let them all 6 battle it out in Spring Training, or will he just automatically screw McCarthy even if the guy goes 4-0 with a 0.70 ERA in spring training?

FarWestChicago
12-14-2005, 11:21 PM
With respect to the job this group did in 2005 which was remarkable by today's standards but they weren't even the best Sox rotation that I have ever seen in my lifetime.

Look up the numbers of the Sox pitching staffs say from 1963 through 1967. Particularly in 63,64 and 67.

LipOh Lip, the hypocrisy flows. What did they ever win? I thought you were a bottom line guy. :redneck

SoxSideIrish
12-15-2005, 05:50 AM
With the addition of Vasquez, the Sox have five pitchers capable of going 200+ innings for the season, I'm not going to crunch the numbers, but I doubt there are many teams that can get 2500 innings out of their starting rotation.
Hehe, maybe you ought to at least try to crunch the numbers...

Are you crazy?! 500 innings by each starter in the rotation is standard!

What's that, you say? Only 1700 innings in a season? Hogwash! I once saw Kerrie Woods throw 2,000 innings himself!

:redneck
Yeah well I saw him do it... IN ONE GAME!

akingamongstmen
12-15-2005, 07:21 AM
Don't forget the legendary Baltimore Orioles of the late '60's and early '70's. In 1971, they had four 20 game winners. Amazing.:o: As for our rotation being the best ever, I would have to strongly disagree. We are not even close. We didn't even have a 20 game winner. One thing is for sure though. Our rotation pitched better than any team in playoff history when we had four consecutive complete game victories in the ALCS. That's something I highly doubt you'll ever see again, even if the Sox get back in next year or even win it all again next year!:cool:

The "four 20 game winners" argument doesn't really hold true in today's game. Winning 20 games is extraordinarily difficult now because of the extensive use of bullpens. In 1971, starters finished a lot (if not most) of the games that they started, so they had many more opportunities to earn a win.

The only way to rank our staff is to compare ourselves against the rest of the league. Are we significantly better than anybody else?...we just might be. :o:

That at least puts us in the discussion of best rotations ever. Still, we've got to actually play the games to see how it all turns out.

Baines
12-15-2005, 09:22 AM
best ever? not a chance - those dodgers and A's rotations of the 60's and 70's probably take cake.

The 1971 Orioles have to be considered. Palmer, Cuellar, McNally, Dobson - all won 20 games. Think about that.

nodiggity59
12-15-2005, 09:29 AM
Will Ozzie let them all 6 battle it out in Spring Training, or will he just automatically screw McCarthy even if the guy goes 4-0 with a 0.70 ERA in spring training?

He'll screw BMac b/c the other guys are not getting paid the $ to be relievers.

MisterB
12-15-2005, 09:53 AM
It's almost interesting to think about. The 5 man rotation is really an innovation of the last 20 years or so, give or take. I mean did the '83 Sox use a set 5-man rotation? I don't think so, correct me if I'm wrong.

They did: Hoyt, Dotson, Bannister, Burns, Koosman/Lamp

Yeah, who was their fifth starter? :redneck

They had 3 pitchers combine for 16 starts. That team had four 20-game winners because of the 4-man rotation. Three of them had exactly 20 wins, and if they each had 2-3 starts go to the 5th starter, they may have had one 20 game winner and three 19 or 18 game winners. Still impressive, though.

skottyj242
12-15-2005, 10:07 AM
The greatest rotation ever and the highest any one of them have ever finished in the Cy Young voting is third?(Garcia in 2001) Give me a friggin break.

HITMEN OF 77
12-15-2005, 12:53 PM
Oh Lip, the hypocrisy flows. What did they ever win? I thought you were a bottom line guy. :redneck

Had there been split divisions in the 1960's the Sox would have had many trips to the ALCS and possibly the WS. That pitching staff on the '67 team was the best staff of all time for the Sox. Horlen, Peters, John and Locker on the front line and Wood, Wilhelm and McMahon coming in to shut the door.

tacosalbarojas
12-15-2005, 01:00 PM
Had there been split divisions in the 1960's the Sox would have had many trips to the ALCS and possibly the WS. That pitching staff on the '67 team was the best staff of all time for the Sox. Horlen, Peters, John and Locker on the front line and Wood, Wilhelm and McMahon coming in to shut the door.But what if they had pitched today in US Cellular Field, one of the best hitter's parks in MLB. You have to consider the factor that in a pitching era, that group pitched in a very pitcher friendly parks (won't even go in to the frozen ball stuff that we had going on). I know they were good, but I'll take my chances with this current group of starters in a Strat-o-matic seven game series against the gang from the 60s. Put it this way, I'm sure there would be at least a couple of games in the just over 2 hour range.

HITMEN OF 77
12-15-2005, 01:21 PM
But what if they had pitched today in US Cellular Field, one of the best hitter's parks in MLB. You have to consider the factor that in a pitching era, that group pitched in a very pitcher friendly parks (won't even go in to the frozen ball stuff that we had going on). I know they were good, but I'll take my chances with this current group of starters in a Strat-o-matic seven game series against the gang from the 60s. Put it this way, I'm sure there would be at least a couple of games in the just over 2 hour range.

But look at how many HR hitters the Sox have on this team compared to the '67 team. I think Pete Ward lead the team with 18. Konerko and Everett together, tripled that number. Had the '67 team had 1 good HR hitter they could have walked away with the division title.

Lip Man 1
12-15-2005, 01:33 PM
Hitmen:

Bob 'Honey' Locker was a stud relief pitcher for the Sox not a starter.

Lip

santo=dorf
12-15-2005, 02:37 PM
With the addition of Vasquez, the Sox have five pitchers capable of going 200+ innings for the season, I'm not going to crunch the numbers, but I doubt there are many teams that can get 1000 innings out of their starting rotation.

Last year's rotation had more than 1000 innings pitch. I imagine we were the only ones because I know in 2004 no team had 5 starters combine for 1000 innings.

34 Inch Stick
12-15-2005, 02:41 PM
The Best Rotation Ever is a status that can only be achieved in hindsight. We can talk about this when I am trying to figure out what I want for Christmas in 2006.

areilly
12-15-2005, 04:41 PM
I know it's the NL, but I still think the rotation the Braves had in the mid-90's of Maddux, Smoltz, Glavine, Avery, and Neagle was pretty stellar and set the bar as far as a five-man rotation goes in the three-division era.

That said, I hope to be changing my answer to "the '06 ChiSox, duh" next fall.