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deck27
12-14-2005, 02:05 PM
Is KW suggesting to Garland and Contreras that whoever "gets serious" about an extension first gets the deal, the other gets traded? Or could it get to the point where we're paying the starting five $50 million, or 60% of the entire payroll?

Randar68
12-14-2005, 02:27 PM
Is KW suggesting to Garland and Contreras that whoever "gets serious" about an extension first gets the deal, the other gets traded?

Bingo.

Tekijawa
12-14-2005, 02:33 PM
Let's just hope that Jose or Jon can read between the lines as well as we do! I also wouldn't be supprised if he moved Vasquez if the other two pull their heads out of their ***es

Lip Man 1
12-14-2005, 02:34 PM
It sure sounds like Williams is making sure they understand the ramifications if they keep the organization on hold. He was pretty clear that no longer if he can help it, will the Sox get into another Konerko situation, waiting and hoping the player will re-sign. If you thought he was proactive before wait until you see him now.

Lip

Randar68
12-14-2005, 02:44 PM
If you read the Trib's online report on the trade, I think you'll see it's pretty clear this is the message KW is sending them...

34 Inch Stick
12-14-2005, 02:45 PM
Is KW suggesting to Garland and Contreras that whoever "gets serious" about an extension first gets the deal, the other gets traded? ?

I read it this way. In fact I would not be suprised to see that there were outstanding offers to each of the players at the time of the quote. The Vazquez trade just dried up the pool for one of them. It ends up being a situation where the police have two suspects in seperate rooms with the first one to break getting immunity (of course the negative is probably a nearly $10 mil contract for the loser next year instead of the electric chair).

Taliesinrk
12-14-2005, 03:01 PM
I read it this way. In fact I would not be suprised to see that there were outstanding offers to each of the players at the time of the quote. The Vazquez trade just dried up the pool for one of them. It ends up being a situation where the police have two suspects in seperate rooms with the first one to break getting immunity (of course the negative is probably a nearly $10 mil contract for the loser next year instead of the electric chair).

Almost.. but not quite IMO. It could be that they had two suspects, and just aquired a 3rd who is already willing to talk, but only if one of the other two will not help out. If the other two both help, then the need for the 3rd disapears, and the 3rd could be sent away, instead of one of the two.

Alright, I probably took that too far. But, like posted above, I could see JG and JC here long term and us using Vazquez like we did El Duque a few years back.

Chicken Dinner
12-14-2005, 03:11 PM
Almost.. but not quite IMO. It could be that they had two suspects, and just aquired a 3rd who is already willing to talk, but only if one of the other two will not help out. If the other two both help, then the need for the 3rd disapears, and the 3rd could be sent away, instead of one of the two.

Alright, I probably took that too far. But, like posted above, I could see JG and JC here long term and us using Vazquez like we did El Duque a few years back.

What happened to clubhouse chemistry????

WhiteSoxFan84
12-14-2005, 03:15 PM
I believe that Contreras will soon agree to a 2 year, $18 million extension with the club, with a mutual option for a 3rd year which he would get paid $11 million. But what's scary is that in the 3rd year of the possible extension, he will be 38 years old.

Randar68
12-14-2005, 03:16 PM
I believe that Contreras will soon agree to a 2 year, $18 million extension with the club, with a mutual option for a 3rd year which he would get paid $11 million. But what's scary is that in the 3rd year of the possible extension, he will be 38 years old.

Is this something that randomly passed through your head or was there some validity to it from a source, any source?

voodoochile
12-14-2005, 03:19 PM
What happened to clubhouse chemistry????

Ozzie's department.

KW builds the team.

OG runs the team.

It's a good division that works well for most teams. In fact when KW has tried to hard to get into the team chemistry it has invariably backfired on him in the past.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-14-2005, 03:19 PM
Is this something that randomly passed through your head or was there some validity to it from a source, any source?

Just a prediction. I feel strong about it though. And when I feel strong about something, "60% of the time, it works everytime"!

http://fan.fire-whisky.net/brian/images/brian_02.jpg

ND_Sox_Fan
12-14-2005, 03:22 PM
Great use of supply and demand economics by KW that could drive their extension prices a touch lower, if they are both competing for the one spot (implying they both want to return).If I am them - I am competing for a spot on a serious contender rather than getting shipped to Baltimore, Philadelphia, or Tampa.

Palehose13
12-14-2005, 03:23 PM
I believe that Contreras will soon agree to a 2 year, $18 million extension with the club, with a mutual option for a 3rd year which he would get paid $11 million. But what's scary is that in the 3rd year of the possible extension, he will be 38 years old.

I'm not worried about Contreras' age. Pitchers aren't like position players and tend to last longer if they don't have injuries. Contreras doesn't have a history of injuries, does he?

TheKittle
12-14-2005, 03:32 PM
I'm not worried about Contreras' age. Pitchers aren't like position players and tend to last longer if they don't have injuries. Contreras doesn't have a history of injuries, does he?

But they thing you don't know for sure about any Cuban pitcher is how many innings and pitches he threw in Cuba. El Duque threw 150 pitches a game in Cuba.

Yes Conty hasn't been injuried but it doesn't take much to get hurt. And there does come a time when people should worry about a player's age. And that time is coming soon for Conty.

Ol' No. 2
12-14-2005, 03:35 PM
But they thing you don't know for sure about any Cuban pitcher is how many innings and pitches he threw in Cuba. El Duque threw 150 pitches a game in Cuba.

Yes Conty hasn't been injuried but it doesn't take much to get hurt. And there does come a time when people should worry about a player's age. And that time is coming soon for Conty.CONTY???? Who the **** is Conty??? And can J-Cont be far behind?:angry:

Hitmen77
12-14-2005, 03:37 PM
Now the $64k question is whether this approach by KW will work on either JG or JC. Would either of them want to avoid a trade enough to agree to a contract extension with the Sox?

Palehose13
12-14-2005, 03:37 PM
But they thing you don't know for sure about any Cuban pitcher is how many innings and pitches he threw in Cuba. El Duque threw 150 pitches a game in Cuba.

Yes Conty hasn't been injuried but it doesn't take much to get hurt. And there does come a time when people should worry about a player's age. And that time is coming soon for Conty.

Conty?

Anyway, IIRC, Navarro was signed over Clemens because Roger was "too old". A 38 year old pitcher with with no history of injury IMO isn't as risky as an older position player. Some pitchers are now pitching into their 40's.

Palehose13
12-14-2005, 03:38 PM
Now the $64k question is whether this approach by KW will work on either JG or JC. Would either of them want to avoid a trade enough to agree to a contract extension with the Sox?

I don't think Contreras wants to go anywhere.

Flight #24
12-14-2005, 03:40 PM
Conty?

Anyway, IIRC, Navarro was signed over Clemens because Roger was "too old". A 38 year old pitcher with with no history of injury IMO isn't as risky as an older position player. Some pitchers are now pitching into their 40's.

Well, there are many "theories" as to why that is (re: BALCO), and I'd hope we don't have to worry about that with good ol' J-Co. That said, he certainly looked like a hoss last year and based on that, I'd think you get 2-3 good years out of him. I'm not super-concerned if he's basically a higher-paid El Duque in 2009 if he's helping us win titles in 06-08. (no teal)

TheKittle
12-14-2005, 03:58 PM
CONTY???? Who the **** is Conty??? And can J-Cont be far behind?:angry:

Yeah like nobody ever said Gooch or KW. And yes Jose has been called Conty by teammates and fans alike. But that's the important thing in this topic right.

TheKittle
12-14-2005, 04:00 PM
Conty?

Anyway, IIRC, Navarro was signed over Clemens because Roger was "too old". A 38 year old pitcher with with no history of injury IMO isn't as risky as an older position player. Some pitchers are now pitching into their 40's.

Yeah some US born pitchers. But those are pretty rare. Rocket is one. Moyer but he wouldn't break a window with his stuff. Who else???

AZChiSoxFan
12-14-2005, 04:08 PM
What happened to clubhouse chemistry????

I'm not familiar with him. Was he with Birmingham last year?

Palehose13
12-14-2005, 04:17 PM
Yeah some US born pitchers. But those are pretty rare. Rocket is one. Moyer but he wouldn't break a window with his stuff. Who else???

I don't quite get why it matters where one is born. I don't think Contreras at 38 will be a liability. In regards to other pitchers that pitch into their late 30's-40's:

Randy Johnson
Curt Schilling
Greg Maddux
Tom Glavine
John Smoltz
Time Wakefield
Kenny Rogers
Jose Mesa
Cal Eldred
Al Leiter
David Wells
Tom Gordon
Arthur Rhodes

Hokiesox
12-14-2005, 04:51 PM
I don't think Contreras wants to go anywhere.

Contreras was quoted many times as saying Chicago is his home, and he was so happy to be there. Methinks the strategy works on JC. But, I would trust JG in the same spots. What a luxury the White sox have right now. Flip a coin, I'll be happy with either on the team. I'd love both, but that's not realistic.

34 Inch Stick
12-14-2005, 04:57 PM
CONTY???? Who the **** is Conty??? And can J-Cont be far behind?:angry:

Alice? Alice? Who the **** is Alice?

Fake Chet Lemon
12-14-2005, 05:01 PM
What happened to clubhouse chemistry????


He's working on that too. Mack for Marte, I'm liking that chemistry change.

Optipessimism
12-14-2005, 05:35 PM
Great use of supply and demand economics by KW that could drive their extension prices a touch lower, if they are both competing for the one spot (implying they both want to return).If I am them - I am competing for a spot on a serious contender rather than getting shipped to Baltimore, Philadelphia, or Tampa.

There is going to be a lot of high quality starting pitching available in FA after the 2006 season, with Contreras and Garland being only a small part of it. Teams will drool over the likes of Roy Oswalt, Mark Mulder, and Barry Zito among others. I just don't see the pitching market after 2006 being as crazy as this one is and I doubt any of these guys get more than 12M per. In fact, I'm thinking 10-11M per could end up getting us a guy like Mulder, which would not be a bad thing at all, so I hope Kenny doesn't go overboard with either Garland or Contreras.

veeter
12-14-2005, 07:19 PM
I think the key here is, does Kenny trust Brandon McCarthy? I do and I think he's more than ready. A window is there for Garland and Contreras. When that window closes, one WILL be dealt. McCarthy slides into the vacancy. I agree that Jose is the one more apt to sign here. Kenny is basically saying in all of this is: if you're good and want to play for the Sox, you will make great money. However, the Sox are not dumb and give unrealistic dollars. I think if Kenny could punch Toronto's GM in the face, he'd do it. Playing for the White Sox is a privelage. (side note: Unless Crede switches agents, he's gone soon also.)

KyWhiSoxFan
12-14-2005, 07:26 PM
Great use of supply and demand economics by KW that could drive their extension prices a touch lower, if they are both competing for the one spot (implying they both want to return).If I am them - I am competing for a spot on a serious contender rather than getting shipped to Baltimore, Philadelphia, or Tampa.

That is not a total loss for someone like Garland. It would be a one-year exile, yes, but when he became a free agent for 2007 he would hold all the cards.

The hope is that one or both want to stay with the Sox and find it more appealing to play in Chicago rather than take their chance with a new team down the road.

SoxSpeed22
12-14-2005, 07:55 PM
I'm not familiar with him. Was he with Birmingham last year?http://www.npr.org/programs/watc/features/2005/may/homestar/sbad_200.jpg"He moved away after 5th grade!"

gowhitesox
12-14-2005, 08:04 PM
I believe that Contreras will soon agree to a 2 year, $18 million extension with the club, with a mutual option for a 3rd year which he would get paid $11 million. But what's scary is that in the 3rd year of the possible extension, he will be 38 years old.


If Contreras does agree to a 2 year $18 million deal with options. I doubt if the Sox would pick up the option when he would be 38. The guy can pitch so I hope he does sign. I hope KW doesn't decided to trade any of the starting pitchers.

TheKittle
12-15-2005, 01:33 AM
I don't quite get why it matters where one is born. I don't think Contreras at 38 will be a liability. In regards to other pitchers that pitch into their late 30's-40's:

Randy Johnson
Curt Schilling
Greg Maddux
Tom Glavine
John Smoltz
Time Wakefield
Kenny Rogers
Jose Mesa
Cal Eldred
Al Leiter
David Wells
Tom Gordon
Arthur Rhodes

Of those you named, some are still great pitchers and some are plain terrible (Leiter) but everyone except Mesa is a US born player.

The reason for mentioning CUBAN players is there is no accurate way to see how many pitchers per game and innings they pitched. El Duque would throw 150 pitches a game. Conty the samething. It's not like these pitchers can tell Castro to go to hell.

MHOUSE
12-15-2005, 01:41 AM
I'd like to see KW lock up Contreras for 2 more years and a mutual 3rd year option. That should be a reasonable price for a pitcher of his caliber and it doesn't leave us scrambling to overpay for next offseason's free agent class.

I think Garland is pretty dead set on getting a big free agent payday whether it's from the Sox or not. I think even if KW tabled a multi-year deal at $8-10 million per year Garland would wait and see if he could push $11 or $12 million per on the market. (just my opinion) If he has another 18-win season he'll be long gone to southern california or elsewhere.

Vazquez helps ease the pressure on KW to replace them both after 2006, now he can focus on retaining just one and making sure BMac is totally ready to take over for the other.

Iwritecode
12-15-2005, 01:44 AM
CONTY???? Who the **** is Conty??? And can J-Cont be far behind?:angry:

Well, there are many "theories" as to why that is (re: BALCO), and I'd hope we don't have to worry about that with good ol' J-Co.

Ask and you shall receive. :D:

Iwritecode
12-15-2005, 01:45 AM
Yeah like nobody ever said Gooch or KW. And yes Jose has been called Conty by teammates and fans alike. But that's the important thing in this topic right.

I've never heard him called that in my entire life. I'd rather hear JC or even the Count (which I have heard on other boards)...

TheKittle
12-15-2005, 02:49 AM
I've never heard him called that in my entire life. I'd rather hear JC or even the Count (which I have heard on other boards)...

Then you haven't been listening. The Yankees called him that a lot.

A we're wasting time talking about a nickname. This must be the off season.