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View Full Version : Where would you put Vazquez in the rotation?


kevin57
12-14-2005, 08:59 AM
Our pitching stable is full of studs right now. Where would you put Vazquez in the rotation?

kwolf68
12-14-2005, 09:40 AM
We just traded two players instrumental to a World Series title and arguable our best minor league prospect for him.

I trust we didn't do this for a relief guy.

Soon we'll be out of minor league prospects where Kenny won't be able to make anymore deals.

akingamongstmen
12-14-2005, 09:43 AM
We just traded two players instrumental to a World Series title and arguable our best minor league prospect for him.

I trust we didn't do this for a relief guy.

Soon we'll be out of minor league prospects where Kenny won't be able to make anymore deals.

Yeah, Kenny really needs to slow down with his whole "Let's try to win it all again" attitude. Minor League prospects should be held onto forever and ever. It worked out well with Joe Borchard. :redneck

pythons007
12-14-2005, 10:26 AM
We just traded two players instrumental to a World Series title and arguable our best minor league prospect for him.

I trust we didn't do this for a relief guy.

Soon we'll be out of minor league prospects where Kenny won't be able to make anymore deals.

He wasn't our best prospect. Not to mention most of our young talent is in the outfield. We can afford to give up one or two of them.

The Dude
12-14-2005, 10:39 AM
We just traded two players instrumental to a World Series title and arguable our best minor league prospect for him.

I trust we didn't do this for a relief guy.

Soon we'll be out of minor league prospects where Kenny won't be able to make anymore deals.

Have some ****ing faith in KW and quit being a dark cloud. Remember, he is NOT DONE YET!!!!!!!!

SkeetSkeetAmit
12-14-2005, 10:46 AM
If I recall, I think Owens is better than Young, but that's not meant to take anything away from Young. Also, I remember when Viz came in last year, I would just hope nothing bad happened. I like the trade. Now let's see what KW does! Always exciting!

kevingrt
12-14-2005, 10:46 AM
Have some ****ing faith in KW and quit being a dark cloud. Remember, he is NOT DONE YET!!!!!!!!

I love the differences between offseasons. Last year we'd have about half and half saying our minor league prospects are depleted so now we are stuck with six starters. But after winning we have one goat saying now KW won't be able to do anything. I think it's pretty funny.

But I think we trade Vazquez, Garland, or Contreras, in that order. All three of these players have relatively high trade value. I think we could get a quality positional player and a quality relief pitcher in return for any three of those guys. We'll see though, any move KW makes to get us closer to another ring I'm all for. Except trading Buehrle right now would be kinda rough.

California Sox
12-14-2005, 11:26 AM
If I recall, I think Owens is better than Young, but that's not meant to take anything away from Young. Also, I remember when Viz came in last year, I would just hope nothing bad happened. I like the trade. Now let's see what KW does! Always exciting!

I suppose I'm chairman of the FOCY, but there's no way Owens is half the prospect Young is. The one thing Owens does well, steal bases, Young is better than he is. (Owens 38SB 20CS, Young 32SB 6CS). Young hit 70 extra base hits last year to Owens' 29 and Owens had 60 more ABs. Plus, Young is a Gold Glove caliber centerfielder with a decent arm. Owens has been restricted to left due to a weak arm. The only way to defend this trade is a belief that Vazquez is going to be great because none of our other outfielders can touch Young in terms ability. KW must love Anderson because otherwise this trade makes absolutely no sense.

voodoochile
12-14-2005, 11:29 AM
Never did care about this stuff and I doubt the pitchers do either. If you aren't the opening day starter, the rest doesn't matter. Days off skew the rotation so quickly that pretty soon it's #4 V #2 in the other guy's rotation.

If Garland is back, Vazques is 5th.

If Garland gets traded and McCarthy is in the rotation, Vazquez is 4th.

No shot at Vazquez, but the other three guys have earned their stripes.

voodoochile
12-14-2005, 11:32 AM
We just traded two players instrumental to a World Series title and arguable our best minor league prospect for him.

I trust we didn't do this for a relief guy.

Soon we'll be out of minor league prospects where Kenny won't be able to make anymore deals.

No, they traded two guys who were relief pitchers at the end of the season, one who barely saw any action in the playoffs at all and one who struggled with injuries for the last several years and a prospect for a pitcher who is the best #5 in baseball and potentially ANOTHER top 2 type pitcher (giving the Sox 5 at last count).

1951Campbell
12-14-2005, 11:39 AM
We just traded two players instrumental to a World Series title and arguable our best minor league prospect for him.

I trust we didn't do this for a relief guy.

Soon we'll be out of minor league prospects where Kenny won't be able to make anymore deals.

Yeah. Why win two in a row when 2009 is shaping up so nicely?

Rounding_Third
12-14-2005, 11:52 AM
With Buehrle & Garcia in World Cup, Vasquez and having 6 starters may be good insurance for tired arms in August.

HomeFish
12-14-2005, 12:16 PM
Trading Garland or Contreras right now would be rather stupid. Having six starters is the kind of problem you WANT to have. It gives you a lot of flexibility, a lot of security. It gives you abundant resources. And you know what my sig says about those.

All of our starters right now should be off-limits unless we fall out of contention; then by all means ship off Garland. But that's not the case right now.

gowhitesox
12-14-2005, 12:24 PM
I can see his so so numbers with Montrael, no having a good team behind him. Notice his numbers improved with the Yankees. He has a solid team behind him in Chicago and I think he will be a solid 5th starter. We are getting a younger pitcher than El Duque. We have 5 solid starters know.

If I was in KW's position I would be to conservative I would be content with the team that won a World Series instead of trying to make trades.

I have faith in Kenny he made the deals that won the World Series this year and am confident that he will do it again.

Fake Chet Lemon
12-14-2005, 12:50 PM
We just traded two players instrumental to a World Series title and arguable our best minor league prospect for him.

I trust we didn't do this for a relief guy.

Soon we'll be out of minor league prospects where Kenny won't be able to make anymore deals.


:chickenlittle

Fake Chet Lemon
12-14-2005, 12:55 PM
Trading Garland or Contreras right now would be rather stupid. Having six starters is the kind of problem you WANT to have. .


Why keep an extra starter if there are other needs? Wouldn't you rather fill a need, than have a guy you don't need???

ShoelessJoeS
12-14-2005, 01:13 PM
Buehrle
Contreras
Freddy
Garland
Vasquez

or

Buehrle
Contreras
Freddy
Vasquez/Garland
BMac
(+ Tejada)

AZSoxFAN
12-14-2005, 02:30 PM
I think you would be surprised at his 05 performance. He was much better than his stats would indicate on a wildly inconsistent DBack club.

mccoydp
12-14-2005, 02:33 PM
He'd be 5th in my rotation, but, that's just my opinion.

Ozzie and Coop may see or know something that I don't.

HomeFish
12-14-2005, 02:43 PM
Why keep an extra starter if there are other needs? Wouldn't you rather fill a need, than have a guy you don't need???

Each extra starter you have is also another long reliever that you have. And, last I checked, long reliever is (was?) a hole for us.

McCarthy can come up as a long reliever this year and step in if somebody falters. That solidifies the bullpen and gives us far more depth than if we trade a starter and then have one of our main 5 injured.

Iguana775
12-14-2005, 02:49 PM
I would put him at #5 and have Mac in the pen or AAA. And if all is well at the dead line, then make a trade. My fear is that the Sox trade a starter away and another one gets hurt. then we'd have the problem of the crappy 5th starter again. I'd rather play it on the safe side and keep them all till mid season.

But that's my opinion.

:supernana:

TheVulture
12-14-2005, 02:49 PM
McCarthy can come up as a long reliever this year and step in if somebody falters. That solidifies the bullpen and gives us far more depth than if we trade a starter and then have one of our main 5 injured.

The nice thing is, either way, we're stacked.

HomeFish
12-14-2005, 02:53 PM
The nice thing is, either way, we're stacked.

We're not stacked if we trade one of our starters. If somebody gets injured, who do we put into the rotation? Munoz?

Personally, I lived through too many seasons when the Sox had a black hole in the #5 spot. I'm coming off one season where we did have 6 starters for most of the year, and I must say that I distinctly prefered it to the previous few seasons.

soxfanatlanta
12-14-2005, 02:55 PM
Each extra starter you have is also another long reliever that you have. And, last I checked, long reliever is (was?) a hole for us.

McCarthy can come up as a long reliever this year and step in if somebody falters. That solidifies the bullpen and gives us far more depth than if we trade a starter and then have one of our main 5 injured.
Good point, however IMO McCarthy is ready today. Starters need consistent work to stay sharp; they train, recover, and pitch on very specific schedules. Relievers are a different kind of animal with training and recovery, and this stud should not have to do that. Granted Cotts was in a similar situation, but when you look at McCarthy's performance at the end of the season, it's obvious he has worked out his problems (as Randar68 mentioned)

Garland for whom?

HomeFish
12-14-2005, 02:58 PM
Good point, however IMO McCarthy is ready today. Starters need consistent work to stay sharp; they train, recover, and pitch on very specific schedules. Relievers are a different kind of animal with training and recovery, and this stud should not have to do that. Granted Cotts was in a similar situation, but when you look at McCarthy's performance at the end of the season, it's obvious he has worked out his problems (as Randar68 mentioned)

McCarthey has had what, 2 good major league starts? Don't get too high on him yet.

Hokiesox
12-14-2005, 04:00 PM
Never did care about this stuff and I doubt the pitchers do either. If you aren't the opening day starter, the rest doesn't matter. Days off skew the rotation so quickly that pretty soon it's #4 V #2 in the other guy's rotation.

If Garland is back, Vazques is 5th.

If Garland gets traded and McCarthy is in the rotation, Vazquez is 4th.

No shot at Vazquez, but the other three guys have earned their stripes.

In our case, I see it more as #1(a), #1(b), #1(c), #1(d), or #2 vs. #2 in the other guy's rotation.

wsox3505
12-14-2005, 04:04 PM
Trading Garland or Contreras right now would be rather stupid. Having six starters is the kind of problem you WANT to have. It gives you a lot of flexibility, a lot of security. It gives you abundant resources. And you know what my sig says about those.

All of our starters right now should be off-limits unless we fall out of contention; then by all means ship off Garland. But that's not the case right now.


Finally!!! the only post i agree with so far.

KW can sit back, relax, and field offers for garland. if nothing knocks his white socks off, he can keep him and enter the season with a better rotation that last year.

guillen4life13
12-14-2005, 05:03 PM
Homefish said not to get too high on BMac. Well... I'm going to disregard that.

I think that, if BMac starts the season in the rotation, he will be what Jon Garland was last year. A month into the season, BMac will be the unofficial number one.

My thoughts: trade Vazquez for solid pitching prospects, which is something the Sox could use right now. Having six top-notch SP's could create a chemistry problem, as McCarthy may be the only one willing to be a reliever. However, McCarthy belongs in the rotation, period. I think that right now he has the biggest upside of all of them (except maybe Contreras), and he needs to stay in shape, going against Major League competition.

2005 Sox rotation (April):
Buehrle
Contreras
Garland
Garcia
McCarthy

2005 Sox Rotation (May and beyond):
McCarthy
Buehrle
Contreras
Garcia
Garland

It may seem a bit delusional, but we'll see what happens.

SoxFan76
12-14-2005, 06:09 PM
McCarthey has had what, 2 good major league starts? Don't get too high on him yet.

Welcome back.

You haven't changed I see.