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Jaffar
12-14-2005, 09:22 AM
Move this if you have to mods but Bruce just reported on ESPN radio that the Sox are looking to trade Bmac now with Uribe and other prospects for Tejada.

IlliniSox4Life
12-14-2005, 09:24 AM
Only way this makes sense is if you can sign Garland to an extension. Otherwise, I would hope it's him going.

Madvora
12-14-2005, 09:24 AM
Well, if a guy like this is available, I would assume everybody is out to get him, so it doesn't surprise me that the Sox have interest.
Rumors run too rampant at these times. I'll wait until I hear something real.

mrwag
12-14-2005, 09:24 AM
Don't do it Kenny! We won with those horses. Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. SS was not a weak spot for us, and we do not need his production, especially if it means losing Bmac.

salty99
12-14-2005, 09:25 AM
Wow that is huge news if true. We will definitely need to pick up some established bullpen help now.

Madvora
12-14-2005, 09:27 AM
Only way this makes sense is if you can sign Garland to an extension. Otherwise, I would hope it's him going.
I agree with that. You can never have too much pitching and the future of Hernandez and Garland is already uncertain. Plus, we have to make sure that Contreras is still likely to continue like he was. I'd feel better with a team with stronger pitching.

Hangar18
12-14-2005, 09:32 AM
Move this if you have to mods but Bruce just reported on ESPN radio that the Sox are looking to trade Bmac now with Uribe and other prospects for Tejada.

I just heard this too. Lucky for me, of the 5 guys in my office, 4 are SOX fans, so were buzzing talking about this right now. Dont move McCarthy

MsSoxVixen22
12-14-2005, 09:32 AM
Don't do it Kenny! We won with those horses. Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. SS was not a weak spot for us, and we do not need his production, especially if it means losing Bmac.


I agree. Don't do it Kenny!

Tekijawa
12-14-2005, 09:36 AM
I'd do this only IF contreras and garland were magically locked up for the next three years, If not send them one of those guys!

getonbckthr
12-14-2005, 09:37 AM
I've agreed with Kenny on all his deals. However if this is true, ***. Uribe obviously would need to be included but BMac. This guy should be deemed untouchable unless you get like Johan Santana or Roy Oswalt in return. If you have to Kenny, sweeten a deal where it would be Garland and Uribe.

santo=dorf
12-14-2005, 09:40 AM
Weren't O's interested in Vazquez? I imagine Vazquez loses his right to veto any trade after coming to the Sox, but could we see him moved again?

I don't want to see McCarthy moved, and it would be a big price to pay if Vazquez was part of a deal for Tejada.

Hagan
12-14-2005, 09:42 AM
If we trade brandon in a deal with uribe this team is going to cost a lot more and the distant future is looking less and less impressive while next year looks like it is going to be a good year with the hitting upgrade and the pitching being almost exactly the same.

DaveIsHere
12-14-2005, 09:43 AM
Boy o boy all this rumor action will not make Dave very productive today!!

itsnotrequired
12-14-2005, 09:44 AM
I've agreed with Kenny on all his deals. However if this is true, ***. Uribe obviously would need to be included but BMac. This guy should be deemed untouchable unless you get like Johan Santana or Roy Oswalt in return. If you have to Kenny, sweeten a deal where it would be Garland and Uribe.

I agree. Levine is probably reporting BMac because a lot of people seem to think that Garland is untouchable. Garland will most likely be gone next year and he would seem to make more sense. BMac is cheap and just coming into his prime.

I suppose a lot of it would depend on how Coop feels about BMac as a starter next year...

Tekijawa
12-14-2005, 09:51 AM
If this goes down I would imagine that Iguchi stays in the 2 spot... ths line up would be sick!

Pods
Iguchi
Tejada
Thome
Konerko
Dye
Crede?
AJ
Anderson


WOW!

Rotation

Buehrle
Garcia
Garland
Contreras
Vazquez


With the money this team would be able to bring in we might be able to make a Run at Garland and Contrers next year in FA! Not to mention you have a Bullpen of Jenks, Hermanson, Cotts, and Polite... would we even have to play the season?

pythons007
12-14-2005, 09:54 AM
I think after the Vazquez deal goes down we can trade him or Garland to the O's with Uribe for Miggy. Now that would be some team. It is going to be a very unproductive day for me today.

salty99
12-14-2005, 09:55 AM
Obviously the Orioles would want BMac over Garland since he will be making a ton of money next season if he has a good season.

pythons007
12-14-2005, 09:57 AM
Obviously the Orioles would want BMac over Garland since he will be making a ton of money next season if he has a good season.

But the O's are stupid!! Look at what the did this year, Ramon Hernandez??? Why in the world would you pay a backup catcher that much when you already have Javy Lopez?

spawn
12-14-2005, 09:58 AM
I don't see this happening. Tejada has already stated he no longer wants to be traded, and the Orioles have never insinuated they wanted to trade him. Tejada isn't going anywhere.

Trav
12-14-2005, 10:01 AM
I don't see this happening. Tejada has already stated he no longer wants to be traded, and the Orioles have never insinuated they wanted to trade him. Tejada isn't going anywhere.

Does he have a no trade clause? If not then he can go anywhere the O's want him to. I never rule anything out with them. They make some moves that make me scratch my head.

spawn
12-14-2005, 10:05 AM
Does he have a no trade clause? If not then he can go anywhere the O's want him to. I never rule anything out with them. They make some moves that make me scratch my head.
He doesn't have a no-trade clause, but my main point is I don't think the Orioles are even remotely interested in trading him. Right now, he's their only big name. But, I could be wrong.

getonbckthr
12-14-2005, 10:05 AM
I don't see this happening. Tejada has already stated he no longer wants to be traded, and the Orioles have never insinuated they wanted to trade him. Tejada isn't going anywhere.
True, but if the Sox offer Bmac, Uribe and who knows what else that gives them a solid, young starter. Uribe even though he won't put up similar offensive numbers to Tejada will play a better defense. Plus it would give them financial flexibility going into next offseason where there are some nice FA's available. Sacrificing 1 season to be really good for 3-4 might not be a bad plan especially in that division.

patbooyah
12-14-2005, 10:06 AM
He doesn't have a no-trade clause, but my main point is I don't think the Orioles are even remotely interested in trading him. Right now, he's their only big name. But, I could be wrong.

poor orioles. imagine how many big name players they'd have if steroids were legal!

Flight #24
12-14-2005, 10:17 AM
I don't see this happening. Tejada has already stated he no longer wants to be traded, and the Orioles have never insinuated they wanted to trade him. Tejada isn't going anywhere.

He has officially said that, but that doesn'tmean that he doesn't want to be traded. Just that he doesn't want the PR hit of demanding a trade.

Taliesinrk
12-14-2005, 10:32 AM
He has officially said that, but that doesn'tmean that he doesn't want to be traded. Just that he doesn't want the PR hit of demanding a trade.

Wow... this is ridiculous people.. finals ended yesterday and I have a killer headache for obvious reasons stemming from the post-final soiree. This stuff is waaayyyyy too much for me to handle? I'm not sure I can handle all this now.. gotta go read about how ppl feel about chris young being moved.

cheeses_h_rice
12-14-2005, 10:35 AM
Geez.

I wake up today to find that we've traded for Vazquez, and now this?

How am I supposed to get any work done today?

:wink:

Tekijawa
12-14-2005, 10:36 AM
I don't see this happening. Tejada has already stated he no longer wants to be traded, and the Orioles have never insinuated they wanted to trade him. Tejada isn't going anywhere.

I once had a Basketball tournament in San Antonio, I "officially" told the coach that I would be adhering to the curfew... I was a little upset after leaving the bar when I met him in the lobby at 1am making a phone call back to the Press in Rock Island... Needless to say I didn't get much PT in the game the next morning.

getonbckthr
12-14-2005, 10:38 AM
I once had a Basketball tournament in San Antonio, I "officially" told the coach that I would be adhering to the curfew... I was a little upset after leaving the bar when I met him in the lobby at 1am making a phone call back to the Press in Rock Island... Needless to say I didn't get much PT in the game the next morning.
Did you pull a Sprewell and choke him out?

Ol' No. 2
12-14-2005, 10:41 AM
Move this if you have to mods but Bruce just reported on ESPN radio that the Sox are looking to trade Bmac now with Uribe and other prospects for Tejada.Did he mention if Wes Helms was part of the deal?:o:

Seriously, folks, with Vazquez, this would put the Sox payroll over $100M. Does anyone seriously think this is going to happen? It would have to be Garland. Baltimore has the cash.

anewman35
12-14-2005, 10:57 AM
Did he mention if Wes Helms was part of the deal?:o:

Seriously, folks, with Vazquez, this would put the Sox payroll over $100M. Does anyone seriously think this is going to happen? It would have to be Garland. Baltimore has the cash.

It's possible that we could be getting a bunch of money from either Arizona or Baltimore...

Jaffar
12-14-2005, 10:59 AM
Did he mention if Wes Helms was part of the deal?:o:

Seriously, folks, with Vazquez, this would put the Sox payroll over $100M. Does anyone seriously think this is going to happen? It would have to be Garland. Baltimore has the cash.

I would rather it be Garland but the O's might look at Garland being a 1 yr rental for Tejada which might be why Bmac is who we are hearing about.

cheeses_h_rice
12-14-2005, 11:02 AM
It's possible that we could be getting a bunch of money from either Arizona or Baltimore...

Bruce Levine reported the D-backs are sending the Sox about $5 million.

I don't know if that's per year or total ($2.5/year), though.

Ol' No. 2
12-14-2005, 11:04 AM
I would rather it be Garland but the O's might look at Garland being a 1 yr rental for Tejada which might be why Bmac is who we are hearing about.Except with Tejada off the books, they could afford to re-sign Garland. They might even have a 72-hr window to negotiate a contract with him, which COULD mean this deal will hang for a few days. If it was McCarthy and Uribe, I'd imagine they would have to be sending a boatload of cash. I just can't see the Sox payroll at $100M.

itsnotrequired
12-14-2005, 11:05 AM
Bruce Levine reported the D-backs are sending the Sox about $5 million.

I don't know if that's per year or total ($2.5/year), though.

Good news either way...

Palehose13
12-14-2005, 11:14 AM
Just a hunch, but I think it is going to be Garland. IMO, the O's are going to want someone established for Tejada so that they can appear that they are competing in 2006.I also agree with whoever said it that if the O's get rid of Tejada, they'll have the money (and would be more than willing to spend it) to give Garland the type of deal he wants.

Garland + Uribe for Tejada? Please make it happen Kenny!

Pasqua's Posers
12-14-2005, 11:16 AM
Just a hunch, but I think it is going to be Garland. IMO, the O's are going to want someone established for Tejada so that they can appear that they are competing in 2006.I also agree with whoever said it that if the O's get rid of Tejada, they'll have the money (and would be more than willing to spend it) to give Garland the type of deal he wants.

Garland + Uribe for Tejada? Please make it happen Kenny!

I like the Vazquez dela ONLY if they spin him to get Tejada. DON'T TRADE GARLAND!!!!

Domeshot17
12-14-2005, 11:17 AM
Vazquez isnt bad when you factor in 11.5-4.5(elduque)= 7-1.3(viz)=5.7-2.5(cash from AZ)= sox adding 3.2 mil in payroll. Now I understand that may come with another 2 mil of replacing vizciano in the bullpen, but its still a hell of a deal when you think about financely. Especially when Ozzie makes Vazquez feel at home, and coop gets him back to ace of staff status

The problem with Garland is all reports are (a) he wants to test the market and (b) misses the california west coast life. So he may not jump to sign with Baltimore. I think you can count on him in a dodgers uniform in 2007. I think Contreras will stay. You can tell he loves Ozzie, his family is here now, and he is a guy that seems to want stability in his life. It still works out with the next 2 years looking as

Buehlre Contreras Garcia Bmac Vaz Garland
Buehlre(option i think) Contreras(?) Garcia Bmac Vaz Broadway

The Dude
12-14-2005, 11:19 AM
Well wow, i hope its garland/uribe/owens instead of BMac/uribe/owens, but either way....i guy like Tejada is not a player to pass up! Wow, thinking about adding him in there with PK and JT. :bandance:

Ol' No. 2
12-14-2005, 11:19 AM
I like the Vazquez dela ONLY if they spin him to get Tejada. DON'T TRADE GARLAND!!!!I thought about this possibility, too, but I don't think it's going to happen for one simple reason: Kenny doesn't want TWO of his starters in walk years. He's building a dynasty.

getonbckthr
12-14-2005, 11:20 AM
I like the Vazquez dela ONLY if they spin him to get Tejada. DON'T TRADE GARLAND!!!!
So keep a guy who is for sure gonna leave at the end of the season and trade a guy who is under contract for 3 seasons at a reasonable price.
:hawk
Are you nuts?

itsnotrequired
12-14-2005, 11:20 AM
I thought about this possibility, too, but I don't think it's going to happen for one simple reason: Kenny doesn't want TWO of his starters in walk years. He's building a dynasty.

Deep pink not necessary!:cool:

SOXBOY
12-14-2005, 11:21 AM
I doubt it's going to be BMAC it's Garland.The Sox know they will lose him next year and will get something for him.The trade for Vazquez at first was to be Garland or The Count and turn to be the Duke,so i doubt it's BMAC.

santo=dorf
12-14-2005, 11:26 AM
Seriously, folks, with Vazquez, this would put the Sox payroll over $100M. Does anyone seriously think this is going to happen? It would have to be Garland. Baltimore has the cash.

Sigh...once again the SOX have the chance
to take over the city from the beloved blue coporation 8.8 miles NORTH,
yet here we are again with the SOX
CUTTING payroll instead of spending the money
:reinsy "but Hangar, whos going to pay the 6 pitchers?"

:D:

gf2020
12-14-2005, 11:41 AM
I agree. Levine is probably reporting BMac because a lot of people seem to think that Garland is untouchable. Garland will most likely be gone next year and he would seem to make more sense. BMac is cheap and just coming into his prime.
Which is why Baltimore would no doubt prefer BMac over Garland. Why would Baltimore want Garland (or Jose C. for that matter) if they only have one year left on their deals? They aren't going to contend this year. Short of Mark, Brandon is probably the most attractive pitcher on our staff right now to other teams. Baltimore would probably not even consider a deal like this without him.

BNLSox
12-14-2005, 11:48 AM
poor orioles. imagine how many big name players they'd have if steroids were legal!

LOL! Very true my friend. Roids run rampant in, gasp, Baltimore?!


How bout we sign Sammy and then trade him and cash for Tejada?

kwolf68
12-14-2005, 11:49 AM
Which is why Baltimore would no doubt prefer BMac over Garland. Why would Baltimore want Garland (or Jose C. for that matter) if they only have one year left on their deals? They aren't going to contend this year. Short of Mark, Brandon is probably the most attractive pitcher on our staff right now to other teams. Baltimore would probably not even consider a deal like this without him.

They wouldn't want a proven 18 game winner? A player who thoroughly dominated in the ALCS and won his World Series start? They have the money. While McCarthy is a fine prospect (and I'd rather trade JG for all the reasons stated), the bottom line is McCarthy is unproven.

Paulwny
12-14-2005, 11:51 AM
Which is why Baltimore would no doubt prefer BMac over Garland. Why would Baltimore want Garland (or Jose C. for that matter) if they only have one year left on their deals? They aren't going to contend this year. Short of Mark, Brandon is probably the most attractive pitcher on our staff right now to other teams. Baltimore would probably not even consider a deal like this without him.

Balt has to be competative now or they may finish in the basement. Trading for BMac an unproven pitcher is more of a risk than Garland or Contreras. Plus, the O's fans would be "up in arms" over trading Tejada for an unknown who only has potential.

itsnotrequired
12-14-2005, 11:51 AM
Which is why Baltimore would no doubt prefer BMac over Garland. Why would Baltimore want Garland (or Jose C. for that matter) if they only have one year left on their deals? They aren't going to contend this year. Short of Mark, Brandon is probably the most attractive pitcher on our staff right now to other teams. Baltimore would probably not even consider a deal like this without him.

But Baltimore has the money to turn around and ink Jon to a long-term deal. Seems like Garland wants to test the free-agent market but if the deal is sweet enough, I'm sure he'd take it.

Tough to say if Baltimore wants the proven (albeit for one season) arm of Garland or the amazing potential of BMac. We'll just have to watch and see how it plays out (if at all)...

DaveIsHere
12-14-2005, 11:53 AM
Garland has more trade vallue as people have said from this past season.

Sell High, buy Low....Do It Kenny!!!!

Hitmen77
12-14-2005, 11:55 AM
The Sox would be CRAZY to trade B-Mac. He looks to be ready and for real - AND it will be years before he's up for arbitration let alone free agency.

If the whole point is to lock up a solid rotation for the near future, I would say that B-Mac is an "untouchable" as far as trades go.

Palehose13
12-14-2005, 11:57 AM
They wouldn't want a proven 18 game winner? A player who thoroughly dominated in the ALCS and won his World Series start? They have the money. While McCarthy is a fine prospect (and I'd rather trade JG for all the reasons stated), the bottom line is McCarthy is unproven.

Absolutely. This is why I also think it is going to be Garland. The Orioles wanted top of the line starts from the ones of which we do not speak of to the north. McCarthy is unproven and Baltimore would be taking a risk. Plus, it looks really good to their fanbase to get an 18 game winner over a top prospect.

This is totally my opinion and speculation, but I think Contreras is more likely to sign with us. I don't know, he just seems like he's a "loyal" guy. It has been made pretty clear that Garland wants to test the market. I don't think KW wants to risk losing 2/3 of his pitching staff after next year. I see Contreras signing a deal (2 years probably) this off season.

TDog
12-14-2005, 12:04 PM
No matter what I saw, how loud I scream, nothing I do will influence the moves the Sox make this winter. I am a Sox fan, and I'll be behind the team that takes the field in April. I can only hope the moves work out for the best. That's pretty much what I told a Cubs fan who asked me how I felt about the Sox trading Carlos Lee. Things worked out.

I like Uribe at short. I liked Rowand in center. I'll probably like whoever is playing center or even shortstop next summer.

Still, I have to wonder how the Cubs fans in my office would react, after being downright giddy about the prospects of getting Tejada (less than two years after wetting their pants over getting Garciapara) would react if Tejada came to the Sox.

kwolf68
12-14-2005, 12:05 PM
It must be Garland.

Personally, I believe McCarthy can be just as good, if not better, than Garland immediately. We can afford to risk having him go through some growing pains (though I think those are over, see first half of last year) because we'll have Buerhle, Jose, Vazquez, and Garcia to fall back on.

McCarthy is also a local product, grew up a Sox fan, and has a personality that I think jives with Ozzie and those guys better. Garland is kinda like the "duuude....whaza up...I just got up out of bed man....Was catching waves last night" ... You can tell he wants to be out there on the beeches...Heck, his girlfriend is a volleyball player or something, right?

If we can turn all of that into Miguel Tejada, one of the games best players, I think we'd do it.

However, I think the Orioles would want an extra prospect out of the deal to keep B-Mac off the table. I'd then do that if they gave money back.

CaptainBallz
12-14-2005, 12:06 PM
Still, I have to wonder how the Cubs fans in my office would react, after being downright giddy about the prospects of getting Tejada (less than two years after wetting their pants over getting Garciapara) would react if Tejada came to the Sox.

Uhhhh... **** Em???????

BeviBall!
12-14-2005, 12:08 PM
When Garland turned down that deal, it could have meant he pitched his last game with the Sox.

If a Garland (1 career year), Uribe and a prospect or two can yield us an MVP shortstop... uh yeah, you do it.

Palehose13
12-14-2005, 12:08 PM
... You can tell he wants to be out there on the beeches...Heck, his girlfriend is a volleyball player or something, right?



I don't know what he wants to do in trees, but his girlfriend is(well, was...) an Olympic softball player.

kwolf68
12-14-2005, 12:09 PM
I don't know what he wants to do in trees, but his girlfriend is(well, was...) an Olympic softball player.


OK, softball player. My bad.

The Deacon
12-14-2005, 12:16 PM
When Garland turned down that deal, it could have meant he pitched his last game with the Sox.

If a Garland (1 career year), Uribe and a prospect or two can yield us an MVP shortstop... uh yeah, you do it.

You're right,Absolutely you do it. He's a top-10 player and singlehandedly carried the A's to the playoffs in September, not once, but TWICE.

Malgar 12
12-14-2005, 12:16 PM
I think after the Vazquez deal goes down we can trade him or Garland to the O's with Uribe for Miggy. Now that would be some team. It is going to be a very unproductive day for me today. Why is everbody so excited to trade Uribe? Am I the only one that remembers his shotgun arm and the 9th inning of game 4 against the Astros?

chisoxmike
12-14-2005, 12:18 PM
If this deal somehow happens, the major upgrade would be Tejada's bat. I think Uribe is one of the top shortstops in the league and his defense is very underrated.

gf2020
12-14-2005, 12:20 PM
But Baltimore has the money to turn around and ink Jon to a long-term deal. Seems like Garland wants to test the free-agent market but if the deal is sweet enough, I'm sure he'd take it.

Tough to say if Baltimore wants the proven (albeit for one season) arm of Garland or the amazing potential of BMac. We'll just have to watch and see how it plays out (if at all)...

Well, I think we could all agree that the Orioles would never trade for Jon, absent an extension, which he would be probably never sign.

Jon will have no shortage of suitors next season. Why would he limit himself to Baltimore? If they have to trade away a player like Tejada in the first place, would they be all that attractive to Jon? The only reason would be money and that will be available everywhere. Thus, the deal would have to be really really sweet for him to sign, but why would Baltimore go there? What makes Garland so special to them that he's worth the extra dough necessary to give him the incentive to sign in a 72 hour period? They could sign Millwood or another FA pitcher right now without having to give up Tejada at all.

chisoxmike
12-14-2005, 12:20 PM
We can afford to risk having him go through some growing pains (though I think those are over, see first half of last year) because we'll have Buerhle, Jose, Vazquez, and Garcia to fall back on.


Don't you remember the years without a genuine 5th starter. :o:

TDog
12-14-2005, 12:21 PM
...

If a Garland (1 career year), Uribe and a prospect or two can yield us an MVP shortstop... uh yeah, you do it.

The first person to utter "career year" isn't to blame, but the phrase has rarely been used properly since.

When someone's career is over, you can point to a career year. Garland has long been believed to have awesome stuff. He has the potential to have better years. People around here still castigate Ron Schueler for saying (what most GMs believed at the time) that Roger Clemens had his career years behind him.

When it's all over, maybe it will turn out Tejada's career year is behind him.

Kuzman
12-14-2005, 12:21 PM
Podsednik - CF
Iguchi - 2b
Tejada - SS
Konerko - 1b
Thome - DH
Dye - RF
Pierzynski - C
Crede - 3b
Anderson - CF

Buehrle - 1
Garcia - 2
Contreras - 3
Vazquez - 4
Garland - 5

Gawd.

sircaffey1
12-14-2005, 12:22 PM
This is totally my opinion and speculation, but I think Contreras is more likely to sign with us. I don't know, he just seems like he's a "loyal" guy. It has been made pretty clear that Garland wants to test the market. I don't think KW wants to risk losing 2/3 of his pitching staff after next year. I see Contreras signing a deal (2 years probably) this off season.

I agree 100% on Contreras. Contreras finally feels comfortable. Why would he want to uproot and risk being uncomfortable again? Hopefully Contreras re-signs...

Palehose13
12-14-2005, 12:22 PM
Why is everbody so excited to trade Uribe? Am I the only one that remembers his shotgun arm and the 9th inning of game 4 against the Astros?

I love Uribe and think he is a very good defensive shortstop. However, Tejada is no slouch at the position and has one hell of a bat.

sircaffey1
12-14-2005, 12:22 PM
TRADE GARLAND BEFORE MCCARTHY! We need the cheap arm in the rotation. We can not have a rotation that makes roughly $50 million....

kwolf68
12-14-2005, 12:27 PM
I don't think the rules allow linking to other Websites,but there is a story on Sportsline that says Tejada doesn't appear to be going anywhere.

Flight #24
12-14-2005, 12:32 PM
Well, I think we could all agree that the Orioles would never trade for Jon, absent an extension, which he would be probably never sign.

Jon will have no shortage of suitors next season. Why would he limit himself to Baltimore? If they have to trade away a player like Tejada in the first place, would they be all that attractive to Jon? The only reason would be money and that will be available everywhere. Thus, the deal would have to be really really sweet for him to sign, but why would Baltimore go there? What makes Garland so special to them that he's worth the extra dough necessary to give him the incentive to sign in a 72 hour period? They could sign Millwood or another FA pitcher right now without having to give up Tejada at all.

I'd bet if the Sox (or O's) offered Jon something close to Burnett's deal, he'd sign it in an instant. He protects himself against injury, regression, market correction, etc. He also basically takes advantage of a weak pitching market to sign his deal rather than next year when there are a number of very good starters going to be available. The only caveat is if he really wants to go to the WC, Baltimore is about as far as you can get from there.

Garland gives them a proven pitcher, and a pretty good SS in Uribe, and probably a prospect for their franchise player. And they deal him out of the division.

All of this is based on Tejada wanting out. If true, and they don't want to send him to Boston, who's left? NYY has no space unless the move him to 2B. Same for LAA. And neither team has anywhere near a Garland-caliber, proven SP to trade. The Cubs already shot down Prior/Zambrano. The Mets don't have anyone outside of Pedro as good as Jon.

Garland & Uribe & a prospect is about as good a deal as they can realistically get if they want to trade him.

Palehose13
12-14-2005, 12:35 PM
From an Orioles message board in regards to a trade for Tejada:

How about: Uribe, McCarthy, Anderson and Cotts? Too much? I think it may be a bit too much myself, but hey, I'm not a Sox fan. Probably would have to decide between McCarthy or Anderson, in which case I'd go for Anderson.


Wow...and I thought this board had some unrealistic trade proposals.

Here's the board:
http://www.orioleshangout.com/forums/index.php (http://www.orioleshangout.com/forums/index.php)

chisoxmike
12-14-2005, 12:35 PM
Yeah, there's only so much one man (KW) can do. I don't see this deal happening, it was reported by Bruce Levine so that should be a dead give-away.

itsnotrequired
12-14-2005, 12:36 PM
I'd bet if the Sox (or O's) offered Jon something close to Burnett's deal, he'd sign it in an instant. He protects himself against injury, regression, market correction, etc. He also basically takes advantage of a weak pitching market to sign his deal rather than next year when there are a number of very good starters going to be available. The only caveat is if he really wants to go to the WC, Baltimore is about as far as you can get from there.

Garland gives them a proven pitcher, and a pretty good SS in Uribe, and probably a prospect for their franchise player. And they deal him out of the division.

All of this is based on Tejada wanting out. If true, and they don't want to send him to Boston, who's left? NYY has no space unless the move him to 2B. Same for LAA. And neither team has anywhere near a Garland-caliber, proven SP to trade. The Cubs already shot down Prior/Zambrano. The Mets don't have anyone outside of Pedro as good as Jon.

Garland & Uribe & a prospect is about as good a deal as they can realistically get if they want to trade him.

:thumbsup:

Excellent points.

samram
12-14-2005, 12:36 PM
From an Orioles message board in regards to a trade for Tejada:


Wow...and I thought this board had some unrealistic trade proposals.

Here's the board:
http://www.orioleshangout.com/forums/index.php (http://www.orioleshangout.com/forums/index.php)

Maybe they should ask the Sox to acquire Pujols first and them include him in that deal.:rolleyes:

DaveIsHere
12-14-2005, 12:39 PM
Levineline is probably just making this up so he can com eup with some story about how the Cubs stole Tejada away because everyone wants to play for that North Side team

voodoochile
12-14-2005, 12:41 PM
I don't see this happening. Tejada has already stated he no longer wants to be traded, and the Orioles have never insinuated they wanted to trade him. Tejada isn't going anywhere.

This maybe Tejada managing the moment to.

If he demands a trade, he has to suffer through a year of arbitration before becoming a FA after his contract expires.

If he says he isn't demanding one, he is a FA the minute his contract is up. That's just better for him financially.

If they cannot land Tejada (and I would be surprised if the O's wanted to hang on to him and his salary now that their dream team has fallen apart) then the Sox will make runs at other players - most notably guys who can play CF.

spiffie
12-14-2005, 12:43 PM
I just recently put down the next chunk on my split-season plan. If they somehow swing this deal too...the next call I make will be upgrading to a full season ticket plan. Because I will want every playoff game when we go back to the WS.

DaleJRFan
12-14-2005, 12:44 PM
Wow...and I thought this board had some unrealistic trade proposals.

They've made mention of wanting Gio Gonzalez in a package for Tejada. :?:

If Garland + Uribe + Prospect = Tejada... its a no brainer. But, I doubt Tejada goes anywhere. My money is on him staying put in Baltimore.

gf2020
12-14-2005, 12:44 PM
I'd bet if the Sox (or O's) offered Jon something close to Burnett's deal, he'd sign it in an instant. He protects himself against injury, regression, market correction, etc. He also basically takes advantage of a weak pitching market to sign his deal rather than next year when there are a number of very good starters going to be available.
Of course Jon would take a Burnett deal, but my point is why would Baltimore offer it to him when they could have offered it to Burnett or Millwood already without having to give up Tejada. I'm sure Baltimore would offer a nicer extension than we would, but I highly doubt they would increase their offer enough (to AJ Burnett levels) to make Jon sign without question.

kobo
12-14-2005, 12:50 PM
If this deal somehow happens, the major upgrade would be Tejada's bat. I think Uribe is one of the top shortstops in the league and his defense is very underrated.
His bat is all that will be an improvement. I don't care if the guy was an MVP or not, defensively he is a downgrade from Uribe and I am not in favor of a move that downgrades defense while improving offense. We won because of pitching and defense, not because of offense.

Flight #24
12-14-2005, 12:52 PM
This maybe Tejada managing the moment to.

If he demands a trade, he has to suffer through a year of arbitration before becoming a FA after his contract expires.

If he says he isn't demanding one, he is a FA the minute his contract is up. That's just better for him financially.

If they cannot land Tejada (and I would be surprised if the O's wanted to hang on to him and his salary now that their dream team has fallen apart) then the Sox will make runs at other players - most notably guys who can play CF.

IIRC, the clause you refer to is only available for FAs traded in multi-year deals. I.e. Tejada doesn't have the contractual right to demand a trade right now, but if he were traded to the Sox, he could then demand the trade (and if traded would lose the FA rights).

IMO, another, possibly more realistic option for the Sox is Abreu. The Phils reportedly want front-line pitching for him, and might well take a Garland+Dye package. Sox plug in Bobby in RF, and long term can go with Podsednik/Owens-Anderson-Abreu with whoever's the better CF between Owens & Anderson playing center.

gf2020
12-14-2005, 12:54 PM
IIRC, the clause you refer to is only available for FAs traded in multi-year deals. I.e. Tejada doesn't have the contractual right to demand a trade right now, but if he were traded to the Sox, he could then demand the trade (and if traded would lose the FA rights).
Actually, I believe I read somewhere that Tejada can demand a trade at somepoint in his contract. I'll try and find a link.

Flight #24
12-14-2005, 12:56 PM
Of course Jon would take a Burnett deal, but my point is why would Baltimore offer it to him when they could have offered it to Burnett or Millwood already without having to give up Tejada. I'm sure Baltimore would offer a nicer extension than we would, but I highly doubt they would increase their offer enough (to AJ Burnett levels) to make Jon sign without question.

Well, Garland's noticeably younger than Millwood, meaning he projects to continue to improve (unless you believe he had a career year), plus assuming they have some budgetary considerations, this move would be relatively salary-neutral for them as opposed to signing an FA. Plus, didn't they make a play for Burnett (reportedly) but lost out?

A resigned Garland heading a rotation of Garland-Cabrera-Bedard-Hayden Penn- #5 is a solid, relatively young, potentially dominant staff. They're missing that #1 caliber guy, and Jon gives them the prospect of that, along with a decent replacement for Tejada in Uribe (great D, decent O) and likely another prospect.

anewman35
12-14-2005, 12:56 PM
They've made mention of wanting Gio Gonzalez in a package for Tejada. :?:


Maybe we can do a three-way with the Phillies and get Rowand back, too!

gf2020
12-14-2005, 01:03 PM
This is what KW said after we resigned Konerko:
"I encourage all of you to put down the notebooks and stop reading the rumor mills and ignore us for a little while," Williams said. "We'll handle some of our little peripheral things in a quiet manner, and hopefully, if we ever have to make another announcement, we can all get back together and have another little talk about it."
I love this man.

munchman33
12-14-2005, 01:04 PM
His bat is all that will be an improvement. I don't care if the guy was an MVP or not, defensively he is a downgrade from Uribe and I am not in favor of a move that downgrades defense while improving offense. We won because of pitching and defense, not because of offense.

Miguel might not be Uribe, but he's no slouch with the glove. The dropoff would be minimal.

chaotic8512
12-14-2005, 01:14 PM
I may be missing something, but what would be good about a Garland+Dye for Abreu deal? :?:

Flight #24
12-14-2005, 01:17 PM
I may be missing something, but what would be good about a Garland+Dye for Abreu deal? :?:

Acquiring a guy who over the past 3 years has averaged 25HR, 31SB, hit .296 with a .414OBP. That's all.....

Ol' No. 2
12-14-2005, 01:19 PM
This is what KW said after we resigned Konerko:

I love this man.Where's that "Under the Radar" tag?:cool:

Randar68
12-14-2005, 01:21 PM
I'd do this only IF contreras and garland were magically locked up for the next three years, If not send them one of those guys!

agree 10000000%... however that is possible...:redneck

chaotic8512
12-14-2005, 01:22 PM
Acquiring a guy who over the past 3 years has averaged 25HR, 31SB, hit .296 with a .414OBP. That's all.....

I guess we do need to a acquire someone who can actually hit for average... I just wonder if giving up two of our better players is worth it. Sure, they both had career or near career years, but does anyone remember the slump Abreu had in the second half last year?

Jjav829
12-14-2005, 01:25 PM
Move this if you have to mods but Bruce just reported on ESPN radio that the Sox are looking to trade Bmac now with Uribe and other prospects for Tejada.

Well, there's a difference between the Sox looking to make that trade and the interest in that trade being reciprocal.

I'd hate to trade McCarthy. I'd rather give them Garland and a 72-hour window for extension talks, but they might not rather have that. In the end, if we have to make it McCarthy to get the deal done, I'd do it. I mean it's Miguel freaking Tejada!

Bring Tejada to the Sox, Kenny!:D:

Jjav829
12-14-2005, 01:33 PM
From an Orioles message board in regards to a trade for Tejada:


Wow...and I thought this board had some unrealistic trade proposals.

Here's the board:
http://www.orioleshangout.com/forums/index.php (http://www.orioleshangout.com/forums/index.php)

That's not so unrealistic. He says, "How about: Uribe, McCarthy, Anderson and Cotts? Too much? I think it may be a bit too much myself, but hey, I'm not a Sox fan. Probably would have to decide between McCarthy or Anderson, in which case I'd go for Anderson."

Hell, I wish this guy was the Orioles GM. I'd rather trade Anderson and keep McCarthy. We could use Garland to fill the whole in center created by trading Anderson.

BTW, I love this post.


So the White Sox won the the World Series and they have traded for Thome and now Vazquez. So much for sitting around and trying to defend their title. And what have we done after finishing 20 or so games out?

Ol' No. 2
12-14-2005, 01:36 PM
Well, there's a difference between the Sox looking to make that trade and the interest in that trade being reciprocal.

I'd hate to trade McCarthy. I'd rather give them Garland and a 72-hour window for extension talks, but they might not rather have that. In the end, if we have to make it McCarthy to get the deal done, I'd do it. I mean it's Miguel freaking Tejada!

Bring Tejada to the Sox, Kenny!:D: Remember, Kenny traded Loaiza in large part because he was set to walk and Contreras had 2 years remaining on his contract. He's got Vazquez for 3 years. One of the big factors in putting together the rotation for 2005 was that they were all locked up for at least 2 years. I don't think Kenny likes looking at 2006 knowing that 40% of his rotation walks after the season. I don't think there's any way he'll include McCarthy in this deal. If the O's don't want the deal, I'm sure there are a lot of other teams waiting at the door for a chance to add Jon Garland to their staffs.

:hawk Kenny's in the cat-bird seat.

getonbckthr
12-14-2005, 01:42 PM
3 way deal:
Sox get- Tejada, Hairston (fills Willie's role)
Cubs get- Uribe, Borchard, Harris
Orioles get- Garland, Cedeno, Jerome Williams, Ragowski

Flight #24
12-14-2005, 01:43 PM
Short list of teams & players that might be in a Garland deal, either soon or at midseason:

O's (Tejada for Garland-Uribe)
Phils (Abreu for Garland-Dye)
Rangers (Not sure who for)
DRays (Crawford for Garland-Sweeney/Anderson)
Mets (Garland for Milledge)
Reds (Garland for Griffey? Dunn?)
DBacks (Garland for Young?)

An interesting twist would be if KW traded Young for the cheap, signed Vazquez and then turned around and dealt Garland at midseason for Milledge, effectively replacing Young.

getonbckthr
12-14-2005, 01:46 PM
Short list of teams & players that might be in a Garland deal, either soon or at midseason:

O's (Tejada for Garland-Uribe)
Phils (Abreu for Garland-Dye)
Rangers (Not sure who for)Michael young for garland/uribe????
DRays (Crawford for Garland-Sweeney/Anderson)
Mets (Garland for Milledge)
Reds (Garland for Griffey? Dunn?)
DBacks (Garland for Young?)

An interesting twist would be if KW traded Young for the cheap, signed Vazquez and then turned around and dealt Garland at midseason for Milledge, effectively replacing Young.
How bout that from Texas

kwolf68
12-14-2005, 01:47 PM
Short list of teams & players that might be in a Garland deal, either soon or at midseason:

O's (Tejada for Garland-Uribe)
Phils (Abreu for Garland-Dye)
Rangers (Not sure who for)
DRays (Crawford for Garland-Sweeney/Anderson)
Mets (Garland for Milledge)
Reds (Garland for Griffey? Dunn?)
DBacks (Garland for Young?)

An interesting twist would be if KW traded Young for the cheap, signed Vazquez and then turned around and dealt Garland at midseason for Milledge, effectively replacing Young.


Garland/Crede for Blaylock? Blaylock's numbers away from Texas concern me. It seems he is, at least in part, a product of that stadium.

Garland for Griffey? No farging way.

Garland/ANderson or Sweeney for Crawford? YOU BET YER ASS.

getonbckthr
12-14-2005, 01:49 PM
Short list of teams & players that might be in a Garland deal, either soon or at midseason:

O's (Tejada for Garland-Uribe)
Phils (Abreu for Garland-Dye)
Rangers (Not sure who for)
DRays (Crawford for Garland-Sweeney/Anderson)
Mets (Garland for Milledge)
Reds (Garland for Griffey? Dunn?)
DBacks (Garland for Young?)

An interesting twist would be if KW traded Young for the cheap, signed Vazquez and then turned around and dealt Garland at midseason for Milledge, effectively replacing Young.
3 way deal:
Mets get-Garland
Sox get-Milledge, 5 dollars.
Getonbckthr gets - Anna Benson:redface:

Ol' No. 2
12-14-2005, 01:51 PM
Short list of teams & players that might be in a Garland deal, either soon or at midseason:

O's (Tejada for Garland-Uribe)
Phils (Abreu for Garland-Dye)
Rangers (Not sure who for)
DRays (Crawford for Garland-Sweeney/Anderson)
Mets (Garland for Milledge)
Reds (Garland for Griffey? Dunn?)
DBacks (Garland for Young?)

An interesting twist would be if KW traded Young for the cheap, signed Vazquez and then turned around and dealt Garland at midseason for Milledge, effectively replacing Young.Forget any team without deep pockets (D-backs, Reds, Drays). They're not going to give up as much in trade as one who can sign Garland to a contract. Garland will bring a top player in return and there's no reason to accept less. That's why the O's deal is so attractive - they can sign Garland with the money they would have paid Tejada.

kwolf68
12-14-2005, 01:52 PM
Forget any team without deep pockets (D-backs, Reds, Drays). They're not going to give up as much in trade as one who can sign Garland to a contract. Garland will bring a top player in return and there's no reason to accept less. That's why the O's deal is so attractive - they can sign Garland with the money they would have paid Tejada.

That's true, but the D-Rays have a new owner and maybe he's ready to play ball. The Rays have a plethora of outfielders and no pitching. They have to know to get a World Champion pitcher who is only 26 coming off an 18 win season who is very durable will cost.

wdelaney72
12-14-2005, 01:53 PM
Garland/Crede for Blaylock? Blaylock's numbers away from Texas concern me. It seems he is, at least in part, a product of that stadium.

Garland for Griffey? No farging way.

Garland/ANderson or Sweeney for Crawford? YOU BET YER ASS.

Any deal with TB would involve us sending a lot of cash to pay for Garland's $6-7 million. That being said, I'd be for somethig like this.

DaveIsHere
12-14-2005, 01:55 PM
:tomatoaward

kwolf68
12-14-2005, 01:55 PM
Any deal with TB would involve us sending a lot of cash to pay for Garland's $6-7 million. That being said, I'd be for somethig like this.

I think we'd do it, because Crawford if Im not mistaken has a ridiculously cheap deal, long term and low dollars...

gf2020
12-14-2005, 02:00 PM
That's true, but the D-Rays have a new owner and maybe he's ready to play ball. The Rays have a plethora of outfielders and no pitching. They have to know to get a World Champion pitcher who is only 26 coming off an 18 win season who is very durable will cost.
I've seen money do crazy things to some people (Magglio to Detroit) but you have to think that Garland would never sign an extension with the Devil Rays no matter how much they offered.

kwolf68
12-14-2005, 02:07 PM
I've seen money do crazy things to some people (Magglio to Detroit) but you have to think that Garland would never sign an extension with the Devil Rays no matter how much they offered.

He'd be a fool. What if he blows out his arm next year? He's driving the ice cream truck in your neighborhood.

A good deal that sets you up for life has to be considered.

ACTF_ZETT
12-14-2005, 02:13 PM
First post EVER on these forums, I might get some flack from this but anyways here we go:

Unconfirmed source reports Williams is trying to strike a deal, John Garland and Juan Uribe for Miguel Tejada. Apparently Williams wants to sign Garland now to extend his contract however Garland wants to play out next season and be put in a Konerko situation. Why I dont know because the odds of him beating his 2005 performance are not great. Anyways Im just passing along the info. If im wrong im wrong, if I end up being right, well then "Hang a star" on my first ever WSI post.

chaerulez
12-14-2005, 02:15 PM
1) Rumors are to be posted in the "What's the score" section of the forums I believe.

2) I believe there are multiple posts about this already.

getonbckthr
12-14-2005, 02:16 PM
First post EVER on these forums, I might get some flack from this but anyways here we go:

Unconfirmed source reports Williams is trying to strike a deal, John Garland and Juan Uribe for Miguel Tejada. Apparently Williams wants to sign Garland now to extend his contract however Garland wants to play out next season and be put in a Konerko situation. Why I dont know because the odds of him beating his 2005 performance are not great. Anyways Im just passing along the info. If im wrong im wrong, if I end up being right, well then "Hang a star" on my first ever WSI post.
How bout instead of a star, a kick in the nuts? Before you post a thread look to see if there is 1. Here is a message board tutorial:
http://starterupsteve.com/swf/posting.html (http://starterupsteve.com/swf/posting.html)

Flight #24
12-14-2005, 02:19 PM
First post EVER on these forums, I might get some flack from this but anyways here we go:

Unconfirmed source reports Williams is trying to strike a deal, John Garland and Juan Uribe for Miguel Tejada. Apparently Williams wants to sign Garland now to extend his contract however Garland wants to play out next season and be put in a Konerko situation. Why I dont know because the odds of him beating his 2005 performance are not great. Anyways Im just passing along the info. If im wrong im wrong, if I end up being right, well then "Hang a star" on my first ever WSI post.

One point to add to what's been said already: it's common to report your source. If it's a website/message board/etc, post a link. If it's your cousin Tony, then say something to that effect. Right now it's not clear if you read this or if you have a source (and if you do, how good that source is - could be your cab driver this AM).

D. TODD
12-14-2005, 02:20 PM
Now that's funny!:kneeslap: How bout instead of a star, a kick in the nuts? Before you post a thread look to see if there is 1. Here is a message board tutorial:
http://starterupsteve.com/swf/posting.html (http://starterupsteve.com/swf/posting.html)

Mickster
12-14-2005, 02:22 PM
One point to add to what's been said already: it's common to report your source. If it's a website/message board/etc, post a link. If it's your cousin Tony, then say something to that effect. Right now it's not clear if you read this or if you have a source (and if you do, how good that source is - could be your cab driver this AM).

This will never get old..... :D:

gf2020
12-14-2005, 02:22 PM
Where's that "Under the Radar" tag?:cool:
If one needs to be made, I wouldn't suggest using this picture:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/051203/483/xbl10312032233

nevr say dye sox
12-14-2005, 02:24 PM
Yo kind of harsh guys, it the dudes first post. Give him a break!

ACTF_ZETT
12-14-2005, 02:29 PM
Go ahead and delete thread plz. I did not look in Whats the Score section.

duke of dorwood
12-14-2005, 02:35 PM
You guys were all first posts at one time and I'm sure those in charge here were not rude

Taliesinrk
12-14-2005, 02:36 PM
Go ahead and delete thread plz. I did not look in Whats the Score section.

Quite alright.. it takes a bit to get used to all the intricacies (or perhaps just for me). In fact, after over a year of lurking and observing, followed by a couple months of posting, I still didn't get the whole language filter thing...and was subsequently banned.

That said.. you should make sure you figure out the language filter thing..

oh yeah.. :welcome:

kkappelk
12-14-2005, 02:36 PM
Not sure if this was posted yet, but Buster Olney said on the Dan Patrick show a little while ago that there is only about a 1% chance that Baltimore will trade Tejada...to anyone. Basically said that Tejada is the face of their organization and the O's are not going to part with him.

Hopefully he's wrong.

ACTF_ZETT
12-14-2005, 02:38 PM
getonbckthr no need to be rough, not like I have a Twins hat on.

Hey Taliesinrk nice to meet ya.

SOX ADDICT '73
12-14-2005, 02:38 PM
That said.. you should make sure you figure out the language filter thing..
Or, just refrain from posting with a potty mouth...:cool:

Taliesinrk
12-14-2005, 02:39 PM
Or, just refrain from posting with a potty mouth...:cool:


Solid advice..

Tekijawa
12-14-2005, 02:43 PM
Not sure if this was posted yet, but Buster Olney said on the Dan Patrick show a little while ago that there is only about a 1% chance that Baltimore will trade Tejada...to anyone. Basically said that Tejada is the face of their organization and the O's are not going to part with him.

Hopefully he's wrong.

I think that it's safe to say that there is a 1% chance that we go into the season next year with 6 Starters... One of them will most certainly be traded for something.

34 Inch Stick
12-14-2005, 02:48 PM
Quite alright.. it takes a bit to get used to all the intricacies (or perhaps just for me). In fact, after over a year of lurking and observing, followed by a couple months of posting, I still didn't get the whole language filter thing...and was subsequently banned.

That said.. you should make sure you figure out the language filter thing..

oh yeah.. :welcome:

"And what about Stork. We all thought The Stork was brain damaged."

DaveIsHere
12-14-2005, 02:50 PM
Well I guess we can start Speculating our needs from a West Coast team as that seems to be where Jon will end up.

The Deacon
12-14-2005, 02:50 PM
I think we'd do it, because Crawford if Im not mistaken has a ridiculously cheap deal, long term and low dollars...

IMO this is exactly why Tampa Bay isnt going to trade him. Plus, he's 23. Its players like Crawford that Tampa Bay need to thrive as a franchise. Young, good and cheap. Granted, Tampa needs pitching but I dont think it will come at the cost of Crawford or Baldelli.

Taliesinrk
12-14-2005, 02:53 PM
IMO this is exactly why Tampa Bay isnt going to trade him. Plus, he's 23. Its players like Crawford that Tampa Bay need to thrive as a franchise. Young, good and cheap. Granted, Tampa needs pitching but I dont think it will come at the cost of Crawford or Baldelli.

Yeah, I just don't know here.. A Crawford deal would almost seem to good to be true. I mean I can't think of why the Rays would want to deal him...

getonbckthr
12-14-2005, 02:54 PM
getonbckthr no need to be rough, not like I have a Twins hat on.

Hey Taliesinrk nice to meet ya.
I wasn't being rough, just trying to help you out. Also i'm a big fan of Roshambo.

White Sox Randy
12-14-2005, 03:09 PM
Not sure if this was posted yet, but Buster Olney said on the Dan Patrick show a little while ago that there is only about a 1% chance that Baltimore will trade Tejada...to anyone. Basically said that Tejada is the face of their organization and the O's are not going to part with him.

Hopefully he's wrong.

Oh good, it's Buster Olney. I was beginning to get worried that the O's wouldn't trade Tejada.

GAsoxfan
12-14-2005, 03:19 PM
Don't do it Kenny! We won with those horses. Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. SS was not a weak spot for us, and we do not need his production, especially if it means losing Bmac.

Unless you consider Uribe's .301 OBP.

Mickster
12-14-2005, 03:26 PM
Unless you consider Uribe's .301 OBP.

.......free swinging in the 9 hole. My bet is that this increases if Uribe moves to the 2 hole as speculated.

Taliesinrk
12-14-2005, 03:29 PM
.......free swinging in the 9 hole. My bet is that this increases if Uribe moves to the 2 hole as speculated.

However, I'm going to go out on a limb and say it increases a ton if we move the position to the 3 hole... I think you catch my drift.

spiffie
12-14-2005, 03:31 PM
Here's the crazy-ass thought of the day, with no reason whatsoever to believe it except my own fevered mind...what about Garland for Ramirez + cash? Red Sox get a front-line starter who is still very young and that they have the cash to sign to an extension while we get an absolutely inhuman 3-4-5 combo in Thome, PK, Manny. I know all the flaws in it (the defensive issues, what to do with Anderson) but it seemed like an idea worth floating out there.

Ol' No. 2
12-14-2005, 03:32 PM
Here's the crazy-ass thought of the day, with no reason whatsoever to believe it except my own fevered mind...what about Garland for Ramirez + cash? Red Sox get a front-line starter who is still very young and that they have the cash to sign to an extension while we get an absolutely inhuman 3-4-5 combo in Thome, PK, Manny. I know all the flaws in it (the defensive issues, what to do with Anderson) but it seemed like an idea worth floating out there.Lie down and elevate your feet above your head.

Tekijawa
12-14-2005, 03:34 PM
Here's the crazy-ass thought of the day, with no reason whatsoever to believe it except my own fevered mind...what about Garland for Ramirez + cash? Red Sox get a front-line starter who is still very young and that they have the cash to sign to an extension while we get an absolutely inhuman 3-4-5 combo in Thome, PK, Manny. I know all the flaws in it (the defensive issues, what to do with Anderson) but it seemed like an idea worth floating out there.

We got a DH, I wouldn't want him anywhere near LF on a regular basis in a normal stadium... I SAY NO!

Paulwny
12-14-2005, 03:36 PM
Lie down and elevate your feet above your head.

He did say "fevered mind", a cold compress may be better. :D:

Randar68
12-14-2005, 03:39 PM
IMO this is exactly why Tampa Bay isnt going to trade him. Plus, he's 23. Its players like Crawford that Tampa Bay need to thrive as a franchise. Young, good and cheap. Granted, Tampa needs pitching but I dont think it will come at the cost of Crawford or Baldelli.

Except OF is where they have the most talent in their system. Gathright, Crawford, Baldelli, Young, etc. Something's got to give when they have no pitching...

Taliesinrk
12-14-2005, 03:39 PM
Here's the crazy-ass thought of the day, with no reason whatsoever to believe it except my own fevered mind...what about Garland for Ramirez + cash? Red Sox get a front-line starter who is still very young and that they have the cash to sign to an extension while we get an absolutely inhuman 3-4-5 combo in Thome, PK, Manny. I know all the flaws in it (the defensive issues, what to do with Anderson) but it seemed like an idea worth floating out there.

The chunks tag almost came out here...

getonbckthr
12-14-2005, 03:45 PM
Would Seattle be willing to do a Garland, Anderson, Ragowski for Ichiro deal??

Randar68
12-14-2005, 03:51 PM
Ragowski

Who?????????

Taliesinrk
12-14-2005, 03:52 PM
Would Seattle be willing to do a Garland, Anderson, Ragowski for Ichiro deal??

wow.. interesting..

EDIT: Randar.. you knew he meant rogo..

santo=dorf
12-14-2005, 03:56 PM
https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/bschalle/www/Baseball%20pics/KWstealth.jpg
https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/bschalle/www/Baseball%20pics/KWstealth2.jpg

itsnotrequired
12-14-2005, 04:03 PM
https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/bschalle/www/Baseball%20pics/KWstealth.jpg
https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/bschalle/www/Baseball%20pics/KWstealth2.jpg

http://www.westwash.org/new/kenny.jpg

"Eh, we have enough pitchers, Coop. Ready my plane!"

AZChiSoxFan
12-14-2005, 04:05 PM
Here's the crazy-ass thought of the day, with no reason whatsoever to believe it except my own fevered mind...what about Garland for Ramirez + cash? Red Sox get a front-line starter who is still very young and that they have the cash to sign to an extension while we get an absolutely inhuman 3-4-5 combo in Thome, PK, Manny. I know all the flaws in it (the defensive issues, what to do with Anderson) but it seemed like an idea worth floating out there.

It may serve you well to stop :gulp: during the daytime.

The Deacon
12-14-2005, 04:12 PM
Except OF is where they have the most talent in their system. Gathright, Crawford, Baldelli, Young, etc. Something's got to give when they have no pitching...

Agreed. The way Kenny is dealing maybe we can get Kazmir too!

wdelaney72
12-14-2005, 04:16 PM
Man, oh, Man. Buster says Tejada not getting traded. Levine says Sox and O's talking trade. Decisions, decisions. Which guy do we take at their usual word and believe the opposite?

Young Gun
12-14-2005, 04:17 PM
Anybody hear any update on this rumor?

Taliesinrk
12-14-2005, 04:25 PM
Anybody hear any update on this rumor?

yeah... i'm overly anxious here (and not w/ in chicago media reach)

SoxRulecubsdrool
12-14-2005, 04:29 PM
Here's the crazy-ass thought of the day, with no reason whatsoever to believe it except my own fevered mind...what about Garland for Ramirez + cash? Red Sox get a front-line starter who is still very young and that they have the cash to sign to an extension while we get an absolutely inhuman 3-4-5 combo in Thome, PK, Manny. I know all the flaws in it (the defensive issues, what to do with Anderson) but it seemed like an idea worth floating out there.:smokin:

getonbckthr
12-14-2005, 04:53 PM
https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/bschalle/www/Baseball%20pics/KWstealth.jpg
https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/bschalle/www/Baseball%20pics/KWstealth2.jpg
:o: :o: :o: :redface: :redface: :o: :o: :worship:

getonbckthr
12-14-2005, 04:55 PM
Anybody hear any update on this rumor?
Farmio was just on ESPN 1000. They asked him what they think is next to happen. He said he has been hearing whispers about Kenny pushing for Miguel Tejada.

Tekijawa
12-14-2005, 04:57 PM
:giantsnail

DID you guys know that Wrigley will have a Knothole next year!

kwolf68
12-14-2005, 05:04 PM
Farmio was just on ESPN 1000. They asked him what they think is next to happen. He said he has been hearing whispers about Kenny pushing for Miguel Tejada.

So much for chemistry. If Williams doesn't get Tejeda then our Starting ShortStep next year will be playing knowing the General Manager doesn't like him and was trying to "upgrade" him.

How in the hell do these rumors even get started?

soxwon
12-14-2005, 05:07 PM
Don't do it Kenny! We won with those horses. Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. SS was not a weak spot for us, and we do not need his production, especially if it means losing Bmac.


if we get tejada- Its over for the rest of baseball.
Lets do it!!!!

CHISOXFAN13
12-14-2005, 05:08 PM
So much for chemistry. If Williams doesn't get Tejeda then our Starting ShortStep next year will be playing knowing the General Manager doesn't like him and was trying to "upgrade" him.

How in the hell do these rumors even get started?

You know what helps chemistry? WINNING. It's a pretty simple concept actually.

Look what Konerko said about Thome. Rowand was a key clubhouse guy last year, but when KW made the move for Thome, it made Paulie want to come back even more.

tebman
12-14-2005, 05:11 PM
So much for chemistry. If Williams doesn't get Tejeda then our Starting ShortStep next year will be playing knowing the General Manager doesn't like him and was trying to "upgrade" him.

How in the hell do these rumors even get started?
That's really a reach. Uribe, like all the rest, are professional athletes who know that trades and roster changes are part of the game. I hardly think Uribe, or any other player for that matter, is going to be any less competitive if he hears his name mentioned in trade rumors.

getonbckthr
12-14-2005, 05:11 PM
So much for chemistry. If Williams doesn't get Tejeda then our Starting ShortStep next year will be playing knowing the General Manager doesn't like him and was trying to "upgrade" him.

How in the hell do these rumors even get started?
Chances are Juan doesn't even know the Sox traded El Duque let alone trying to get Miggy. He is probably living it up on an island somewhere forgetting that spring training is 2 months away.

Tekijawa
12-14-2005, 05:12 PM
So much for chemistry. If Williams doesn't get Tejeda then our Starting ShortStep next year will be playing knowing the General Manager doesn't like him and was trying to "upgrade" him.

How in the hell do these rumors even get started?

Obviously you've never dated "the hot girl". When you're with her you just strap in and enjoy the ride while you can, because eventually you know she'll be swept away by some 50 year old man with a million dollar paycheck. I'm sure that there are at least 29 other shortstops that would rather be "not wanted" on a Championship team, then have their team drooling all over them with no chance!

zach23
12-14-2005, 05:14 PM
So much for chemistry. If Williams doesn't get Tejeda then our Starting ShortStep next year will be playing knowing the General Manager doesn't like him and was trying to "upgrade" him.

How in the hell do these rumors even get started?

Wow, take a deep breath and relax for awhile. You are freaking out about every little thing.
Why not wait and see how everything shakes out before going nuts over every little rumor and who said what to who? Nobody but those involved knows what is being discussed. How do you have any clue how Uribe will feel about them pursuing Tejada? He may not really even care. How do any of us know if they really are anyway?
It seems like some of you are just finding anything to get worked up about at this point.

Hokiesox
12-14-2005, 05:16 PM
if we get tejada- Its over for the rest of baseball.
Lets do it!!!!

Games are played for a reason, let's not have this thought ever. Ask the Yankees.

kwolf68
12-14-2005, 05:21 PM
You know what helps chemistry? WINNING. It's a pretty simple concept actually.



I thought Chemistry was part of the reason we were winning. Thanks for keeping it simple, but do you win and then have chemistry, or do you have chemistry and then win? I was told all last year, we won because of chemistry.

So you see...It's not that simple afterall.

kwolf68
12-14-2005, 05:22 PM
I hardly think Uribe, or any other player for that matter, is going to be any less competitive if he hears his name mentioned in trade rumors.

Can you show me where I said Uribe was going to be "less competitive"? If you people are going to bash me for something, at least make it be something I said.

kwolf68
12-14-2005, 05:23 PM
It seems like some of you are just finding anything to get worked up about at this point.

You heard it here from Zach23. Don't get worked up. Can we just shut down all message boards? Message boards is where Sox fans go to celebrate, vent, argue, discuss.

Excuuuuse me...If I did any of that.

Tekijawa
12-14-2005, 05:24 PM
Can you show me where I said Uribe was going to be "less competitive"? If you people are going to bash me for something, at least make it be something I said.

Were you implying that he was going to play better knowing that the GM was trying to trade him? Or the Same? The tone made it sould like even YOU thought he would play worse!

CHISOXFAN13
12-14-2005, 05:24 PM
I thought Chemistry was part of the reason we were winning. Thanks for keeping it simple, but do you win and then have chemistry, or do you have chemistry and then win? I was told all last year, we won because of chemistry.

So you see...It's not that simple afterall.

Actually it is. Ozzie is the manager. Everyone loves playing for him. A.J. was supposed to be a clubhouse cancer but was an absolute perfect fit.

I have no worries about anyone fitting in with the way Ozzie manages this group.

kwolf68
12-14-2005, 05:28 PM
Were you implying that he was going to play better knowing that the GM was trying to trade him? Or the Same? The tone made it sould like even YOU thought he would play worse!

I implied NOTHING. I only stated Uribe would know that he isn't necessarily wanted if something better comes along. How Juan handles it is entirely conjecture at this point and I didn't imply he'd handle it one way or another. I only stated a point of fact. It's entirely possible he won't even care, heck he could actually play better because of it, or he could flame out.

I just hate this idea so many in here have to basically dismantle the team that just gave us a World Series Title...Trade them all, they suck, there are better guys anyway. I wanted to root on a Defending Champion. Not a bunch of guys who had nothing to do with our Title.

getonbckthr
12-14-2005, 05:28 PM
Can you show me where I said Uribe was going to be "less competitive"? If you people are going to bash me for something, at least make it be something I said.
I'll be honest this guy is starting to piss me off. He is stepping up to everybody today, and personally its getting a bit annoying. Your new here. Quit the disrepecting and quit the challenging of people. You posting here is not a right its a privilege, once you realize that people will stop questioning every post you make.

SoxRulecubsdrool
12-14-2005, 05:29 PM
You heard it here from Zach23. Don't get worked up. Can we just shut down all message boards? Message boards is where Sox fans go to celebrate, vent, argue, discuss.

Excuuuuse me...If I did any of that.

You may need to switch to decaff for a bit.

:hug: Then we can all have a group hug!

Tekijawa
12-14-2005, 05:30 PM
I'll be honest this guy is starting to piss me off. He is stepping up to everybody today, and personally its getting a bit annoying. Your new here. Quit the disrepecting and quit the challenging of people. You posting here is not a right its a privilege, once you realize that people will stop questioning every post you make.

He Posts with the Vigor of a young WhiteSoxJosh!

TomParrish79
12-14-2005, 05:31 PM
Obviously you've never dated "the hot girl". When you're with her you just strap in and enjoy the ride while you can, because eventually you know she'll be swept away by some 50 year old man with a million dollar paycheck.

thats the funniest and most reasonable thing I have read all day

kwolf68
12-14-2005, 05:32 PM
Actually it is. Ozzie is the manager. Everyone loves playing for him. A.J. was supposed to be a clubhouse cancer but was an absolute perfect fit.

I have no worries about anyone fitting in with the way Ozzie manages this group.


Yea whatever. I guess it was propaganda when no deals were made last year lest we "break up chemistry" even though Ozzie is so great to play for. I don't doubt Ozzie is great to play for, but chemistry shouldn't be a problem if you can just roll anyone out there so long as Ozzie is managing.

I'd just like to try to actually repeat and quit acting like we lost 90 games last year.

spiffie
12-14-2005, 05:33 PM
He Posts with the Vigor of a young WhiteSoxJosh!

You know the Daleks stir just upon that name being mentioned, don't you?

zach23
12-14-2005, 05:33 PM
You heard it here from Zach23. Don't get worked up. Can we just shut down all message boards? Message boards is where Sox fans go to celebrate, vent, argue, discuss.

Excuuuuse me...If I did any of that.

No, what you seem to be doing is whining non-stop today. And with this post about Uribe/Tejada and chemistry you are now inventing things to whine about.
Whatever.
In my 38 years this is by far the most enjoyable time to be a Sox fan. There is a World Series trophy being shown around the city, and the team is adding more pieces to make another run. Hell, even Lip is happy with the direction the team is going and that is scary. If you would rather cry about things that may not even happen, then go for it. All you will get in the end is ulcers.

Palehose13
12-14-2005, 05:33 PM
I implied NOTHING. I only stated Uribe would know that he isn't necessarily wanted if something better comes along. How Juan handles it is entirely conjecture at this point and I didn't imply he'd handle it one way or another. I only stated a point of fact. It's entirely possible he won't even care, heck he could actually play better because of it, or he could flame out.

I just hate this idea so many in here have to basically dismantle the team that just gave us a World Series Title...Trade them all, they suck, there are better guys anyway. I wanted to root on a Defending Champion. Not a bunch of guys who had nothing to do with our Title.

KW is not dismantling the team. He is improving it. If you want to repeat, you can't stay still.

Oh and take a chill pill when answering other posters.

TomParrish79
12-14-2005, 05:33 PM
guys relax....jump to it

Tekijawa
12-14-2005, 05:38 PM
guys relax....jump to it

OH GOD please don't let me be the only one who laughs at that!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/vaude/Movie%20Icons/Zoolander/crazy.jpg (http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0196229/Ss/0196229/zool_09.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0196229)

TomParrish79
12-14-2005, 05:38 PM
OH GOD please don;t let me be the only one who laughs at that!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/vaude/Movie%20Icons/Zoolander/crazy.jpg (http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0196229/Ss/0196229/zool_09.jpg?path=gallery&path_key=0196229)

I am just glad someone got the joke

Tekijawa
12-14-2005, 05:39 PM
Is this a joke? I have pissed you off? You get mad at anonymous posters on a message board?

You think I am disrespecting and challenging? Is that serious? My posts were challenged and you know what? I expect them to be. If I state a strong opinion people will “challenge me”. That is fine. I am not at all upset with that nor do I care, so long as my posts are accurately portrayed.

But if someone is going to “challenge” me, then I’ll challenge right back. As far as your sermon on this board being a privilege, spare me please. I have not disrespected anyone, called no one any names, and have belittled no ones opinion.

JOSH! Go to your room!

kwolf68
12-14-2005, 05:40 PM
Yea Yea. No voice for dissent here. There is a punch line there, but I'll abstain.

itsnotrequired
12-14-2005, 05:41 PM
KW is not dismantling the team. He is improving it. If you want to repeat, you can't stay still.

Oh and take a chill pill when answering other posters.

Exactly.

Traded an inconsistent reliver for a 7-position bench player.
Traded a fine defensive CF for that big lefty bat the Sox need.
Traded an ancient starter/reliver and spotty reliver for a legit starting pitcher. Gave up unproven talent at a position the Sox are stacked at.
Possibly looking at trading a fine defensive SS and a free-agent-next-year pitcher for a MVP-caliber SS.Kenny is plugging holes. The price may seem steep now but no one is going to give a rat's ass when they hoist the 2006 WS champion flag on Opening Day, 2007.

No pink needed. I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand...

Tekijawa
12-14-2005, 05:41 PM
I am just glad someone got the joke

Now it's in my head! I'll have to Kick your *** at a later date!:redneck

SoxRulecubsdrool
12-14-2005, 05:41 PM
Where's the love?

Flight #24
12-14-2005, 05:41 PM
So much for chemistry. If Williams doesn't get Tejeda then our Starting ShortStep next year will be playing knowing the General Manager doesn't like him and was trying to "upgrade" him.

How in the hell do these rumors even get started?

Ummm....almost every player on every team knows that their GM is trying to upgrade them or said GM would not be doing their job. You think Juan Uribe doesn't know that Miguel Tejada is a far superior player to him?

Palehose13
12-14-2005, 05:42 PM
Yea Yea. No voice for dissent here. There is a punch line there, but I'll abstain.

You can dissent, but your posts look like you are overreacting and may need some:
:prozac

Tekijawa
12-14-2005, 05:43 PM
Ummm....almost every player on every team knows that their GM is trying to upgrade them or said GM would not be doing their job. You think Juan Uribe doesn't know that Miguel Tejada is a far superior player to him?

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Don't tell him! I hope he doesn't visit this site or we're done next year!

kwolf68
12-14-2005, 05:44 PM
Exactly.

Traded an inconsistent reliver for a 7-position bench player.
Traded a fine defensive CF for that big lefty bat the Sox need.
Traded an ancient starter/reliver and spotty reliver for a legit starting pitcher. Gave up unproven talent at a position the Sox are stacked at.
Possibly looking at trading a fine defensive SS and a free-agent-next-year pitcher for a MVP-caliber SS.Kenny is plugging holes. The price may seem steep now but no one is going to give a rat's ass when they hoist the 2006 WS champion flag on Opening Day, 2007.

No pink needed. I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand...


And I agree. Most of those are good deals. But I don't support everything I hear and don't support going after a shortstop.

We are now down to 4 competent arms in our pen. One is a 22 year old, one is coming off major back issues, one is coming off a career year (Cliff, he'll be fine though)...So I'm worried there.

Tekijawa
12-14-2005, 05:45 PM
And I agree. Most of those are good deals. But I don't support everything I hear and don't support going after a shortstop.

We are now down to 4 competent arms in our pen. One is a 22 year old, one is coming off major back issues, one is coming off a career year (Cliff, he'll be fine though)...So I'm worried there.

I thought we were worried about Juan Uribe's Mental health?

http://us.ent4.yimg.com/tv.yahoo.com/tv/photos/b2/5e/503630.jpg
"Juan, Miguel Tejada is better than you and you'll just have to accept that, even if you don't get traded."

kwolf68
12-14-2005, 05:46 PM
You can dissent, but your posts look like you are overreacting and may need some:


I don't agree. My post was simply a question on where these rumors get started and I wondered what these guys think being treated like the 425 guy on an assembly line.

The concerns are probably ill-founded, but confidence that trade-mongering has no impact are also ill-founded.

TomParrish79
12-14-2005, 05:46 PM
Now it's in my head! I'll have to Kick your *** at a later date!:redneck

Well when a song is always stuck in my head like that, I always like to Rock Onto Electric Avenue...

itsnotrequired
12-14-2005, 05:47 PM
We are now down to 4 competent arms in our pen. One is a 22 year old, one is coming off major back issues, one is coming off a career year (Cliff, he'll be fine though)...So I'm worried there.

With the starters that Kenny has assembled, the pen isn't as big an issue. Kenny skimmed off the rough players (Marte and Viz) but kept the champs (Politte and Cotts). In any event, do you really believe Kenny is done making deals? Bullpen arms aren't as hard to get as starters and key position players.

Kenny is probably fueling his jet as we speak. Let the speculation continue...

Ol' No. 2
12-14-2005, 05:48 PM
I don't agree. My post was simply a question on where these rumors get started and I wondered what these guys think being treated like the 425 guy on an assembly line.

The concerns are probably ill-founded, but confidence that trade-mongering has no impact are also ill-founded.Good grief. If these guys' psyches were that fragile they'd all be in straight-jackets by now.

kwolf68
12-14-2005, 05:48 PM
I thought we were worried about Juan Uribe's Mental health?

No, I just wonder what goes through guys minds when they are trying to be replaced. You think it has no impact? That is fine. But I'm the big bad guy for even bringing it up. I know I know...Time to colonize the entire league. Can we get rid of Iguchi for an upgrade there ya think? And AJP is not that good, what's the price tag on Molina these days?

I guess I shouldn't be loyal to the players and should just be loyal to the uniform. I try to balance the two. My bad.

Tekijawa
12-14-2005, 05:50 PM
My post was simply a question on where these rumors get started...
The title of this thread says Bruce Levine, he's a "baseball insider"!

kwolf68
12-14-2005, 05:51 PM
The title of this thread says Bruce Levine, he's a "baseball insider"!

Yea, but where does he get his information? The dude makes weather men look accurate.

Palehose13
12-14-2005, 05:51 PM
And I agree. Most of those are good deals. But I don't support everything I hear and don't support going after a shortstop.

We are now down to 4 competent arms in our pen. One is a 22 year old, one is coming off major back issues, one is coming off a career year (Cliff, he'll be fine though)...So I'm worried there.

I don't think that it is going to be hard to replace Marte and Vizcaino. Here's who is out there: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/features/freeagents?type=avail&positionId=0 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/features/freeagents?type=avail&positionId=0)

shes
12-14-2005, 05:52 PM
I got in a discussion about this w/ a friend of mine, and she swears Tejada said some crap about the Sox early last season. I don't recall this ever happening. Does anyone remember this?

kwolf68
12-14-2005, 05:53 PM
I don't think that it is going to be hard to replace Marte and Vizcaino. Here's who is out there: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/features/freeagents?type=avail&positionId=0 (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/features/freeagents?type=avail&positionId=0)


Dude, I'm fine with this trade here. In thinking of the Vazzy deal I like it. No problems. My comment is on the rumor of Tejada. If we are to deal a stud like McCarthy, Garland, or Contrares I want it to be for a Carl Crawford, Vernon Wells type player.

I'm all for dealing and KW deserves credit, but lets trade for a position where we can truly make an impact.

Tekijawa
12-14-2005, 05:53 PM
Yea, but where does he get his information? The dude makes weather men look accurate.

Probably the same place Ed Farmer does... He also confirmed that the Sox were pushing for Tejada.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/time100/images/main_freud.jpg

"Now tell me about your mother."

zach23
12-14-2005, 05:57 PM
No, I just wonder what goes through guys minds when they are trying to be replaced. You think it has no impact? That is fine. But I'm the big bad guy for even bringing it up. I know I know...Time to colonize the entire league. Can we get rid of Iguchi for an upgrade there ya think? And AJP is not that good, what's the price tag on Molina these days?

I guess I shouldn't be loyal to the players and should just be loyal to the uniform. I try to balance the two. My bad.

So in your opinion the Sox should just hang onto everyone until they retire or choose to leave on their own because they were all part of a World Series winner?

Palehose13
12-14-2005, 06:00 PM
Dude, I'm fine with this trade here. In thinking of the Vazzy deal I like it. No problems. My comment is on the rumor of Tejada. If we are to deal a stud like McCarthy, Garland, or Contrares I want it to be for a Carl Crawford, Vernon Wells type player.

I'm all for dealing and KW deserves credit, but lets trade for a position where we can truly make an impact.

I like Carl Crawford also, but if you want an impact Tejada is definitely an impact player.

.304BA/26HR/98RBI/.349OBP will make more of an impact than:
.252BA/16HR/71RBI/.301OBP

IMO, when you get a chance to get an impact player like Tejada, you go for it. BTW...check out who is my favorite current Sox player. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

Finally, we don't even know if Crawford is on the market.

Oh hey...what's with all the "dudes". Are you Dusty Baker?

zach23
12-14-2005, 06:02 PM
Dude, I'm fine with this trade here. In thinking of the Vazzy deal I like it. No problems. My comment is on the rumor of Tejada. If we are to deal a stud like McCarthy, Garland, or Contrares I want it to be for a Carl Crawford, Vernon Wells type player.

I'm all for dealing and KW deserves credit, but lets trade for a position where we can truly make an impact.

But it is all just rumor and speculation right now. If Bruce Levinline is reporting it then it will probably never happen. How many times did he say the Sox were getting Wes Helms last year?
Why not wait until it actually happens and then get upset?

maurice
12-14-2005, 06:45 PM
My comment is on the rumor of Tejada. If we are to deal a stud like McCarthy, Garland, or Contrares I want it to be for a Carl Crawford, Vernon Wells type player.

Tejada > Crawford
Tejada > Wells
Tejada >>> Uribe

Taliesinrk
12-14-2005, 07:02 PM
Tejada > Crawford
Tejada > Wells
Tejada >>> Uribe

careful there.. if you wanna make that comparison you need to preface it with the fact that you're speaking of offense only. otherwise you're wrong.. Tejada >>> Uribe.. no.. Tejadea >? URibe.. yes

hold2dibber
12-14-2005, 07:13 PM
careful there.. if you wanna make that comparison you need to preface it with the fact that you're speaking of offense only. otherwise you're wrong.. Tejada >>> Uribe.. no.. Tejadea >? URibe.. yes

Well, even considering defense, as a total package, Tejada is much more valuable than Uribe. And I really like Uribe. But Tejada is on a whole other level.

Huisj
12-14-2005, 07:16 PM
One interesting thing about Crawford (and more generally TB) is that, assuming Rocco Baldelli comes back healthy next year, they have 4 good outfielders.

Crawford: .301 / 46 SB / 15 HR / 15 3B
Gathright: .276 / 20 SB in 76 games
Gomes: .282 / 21 HR in 101 games
Baldelli (2004): .280 / 16 HR / 74 RBI /17 SB in 136 games

Seems like someone's gotta go. They signed Baldelli to a 6-year $32+ milliion deal recently.

kwolf68
12-14-2005, 07:26 PM
I like Carl Crawford also, but if you want an impact Tejada is definitely an impact player.

.304BA/26HR/98RBI/.349OBP will make more of an impact than:
.252BA/16HR/71RBI/.301OBP

IMO, when you get a chance to get an impact player like Tejada, you go for it. BTW...check out who is my favorite current Sox player. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

Finally, we don't even know if Crawford is on the market.


I would suggest that Crawford suits a pressing need and COULD develop into a major impact guy if he isn't there already. The only thing Tejada gives over him is homers, and I think we have plenty of that. We need more rabbits. His average and OBP is already as good as Tejada and he'll steal far more bases playing a position where we just traded our starter and the "future Mr Everything Mr CF".

Plus Ozzie was saying he wanted more speed, speed, speed...Best place to get it? Center Field.

And no...I don't know if Crawford is on the market, probably not and if he is I would imagine the Rays asking price is the King's Ransom. I don't think we'll ever get a major deal worked out with that team. I guess one day they'll realize you can't start 6 outfielders and someone could become available.

kwolf68
12-14-2005, 07:27 PM
One interesting thing about Crawford (and more generally TB) is that, assuming Rocco Baldelli comes back healthy next year, they have 4 good outfielders.

Crawford: .301 / 46 SB / 15 HR / 15 3B
Gathright: .276 / 20 SB in 76 games
Gomes: .282 / 21 HR in 101 games
Baldelli (2004): .280 / 16 HR / 74 RBI /17 SB in 136 games

Seems like someone's gotta go. They signed Baldelli to a 6-year $32+ milliion deal recently.

They have more than that. They have Delmon Young who is ready to get started in the majors, he is a big time player. Plus they have Huff (probably the one on the block) and Elijah Dukes as well.

Huisj
12-14-2005, 07:34 PM
I would suggest that Crawford suits a pressing need and COULD develop into a major impact guy if he isn't there already. The only thing Tejada gives over him is homers, and I think we have plenty of that. We need more rabbits. His average and OBP is already as good as Tejada and he'll steal far more bases playing a position where we just traded our starter and the "future Mr Everything Mr CF".

Plus Ozzie was saying he wanted more speed, speed, speed...Best place to get it? Center Field.

And no...I don't know if Crawford is on the market, probably not and if he is I would imagine the Rays asking price is the King's Ransom. I don't think we'll ever get a major deal worked out with that team. I guess one day they'll realize you can't start 6 outfielders and someone could become available.

I'd agree, anyone who can give you 15 triples, 30 doubles, and 15 homers and steal 45 bases playing centerfield is an impact player. Can you imagine him and podsednik batting 1-2? yikes.

I think you're also right about them asking for the whole world in return for him. Too bad he's not going to arbitration yet, because then maybe TB would be more willing to part. However, they also think they're onto something with their young team, so it's probably less likely that they'll just throw away players now.

Saufley
12-14-2005, 08:49 PM
I listened to Farmer on the Mac,Jirko and Harry show. I heard him say that he was hearing WHISPERS about Tejada. I never heard him say that the Sox were PUSHING for Tejada. But, maybe under the radar the Sox are inquiring.

SoxSpeed22
12-14-2005, 08:52 PM
:tomatoaward :tomatoaward
For another fabulous off-season trade suggestion thread.

maurice
12-14-2005, 09:32 PM
I would suggest that Crawford suits a pressing need

The Sox don't have a "pressing need" for a LF (Crawford's actual position). They have Podsednik for now and Owens waiting in the wings. None of these three guys are fit to play CF.

Even ignoring this fact, the Sox need for a CF is not any greater than the need for a SS. Both Anderson and Uribe are excellent defensively, and Anderson is not likely to do worse than Uribe's .252 AVE, .301 OBP, and .412 SLG.

The only thing Tejada gives over [Crawford] is homers

And the fact that he's a SS, not a LF. He's even a pretty good defender, while there's no evidence that Crawford would be a good defensive CF. All things being equal, a good defensive SS is far more valuable than a questionable defensive CF. It's a big part of the reason that Tejada won a MVP award and finished in the Top 20 in voting for each of the last 6 years.

Besides, you concede that there's no reason to believe that Crawford is currently available. If Tejada is available right now, there's no sense waiting to pull the trigger. He'd be a huge upgrade.

Ol' No. 2
12-14-2005, 09:43 PM
The Sox don't have a "pressing need" for a LF (Crawford's actual position). They have Podsednik for now and Owens waiting in the wings. None of these three guys are fit to play CF.

Even ignoring this fact, the Sox need for a CF is not any greater than the need for a SS. Both Anderson and Uribe are excellent defensively, and Anderson is not likely to do worse than Uribe's .252 AVE, .301 OBP, and .412 SLG.



And the fact that he's a SS, not a LF. He's even a pretty good defender, while there's no evidence that Crawford would be a good defensive CF. All things being equal, a good defensive SS is far more valuable than a questionable defensive CF. It's a big part of the reason that Tejada won a MVP award and finished in the Top 20 in voting for each of the last 6 years.

Besides, you concede that there's no reason to believe that Crawford is currently available. If Tejada is available right now, there's no sense waiting to pull the trigger. He'd be a huge upgrade.From Ken Rosenthal's article (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5167730):
Williams fired a warning shot to both pitchers Tuesday, saying that it's time "for them to get serious" about talks on contract extensions. Contreras is set to earn $8 million next season, and Garland could receive a similar amount in arbitration. Their prices as free agents will be even more exorbitant, which is why rival clubs have been contacting Williams the entire off-season about possible trades for both pitchers.I'll bet there are a bunch of potential deals that no one knows about. Kenny needs to take advantage of the situation and drive the best possible bargain.

maurice
12-14-2005, 09:53 PM
I'll bet there are a bunch of potential deals that no one knows about.

You're probably right. Sox starting pitching was very deep before this trade. Now it's even deeper. That's the hottest commodity in baseball. I'm sure KW had this in mind when he made the deal. Heck, he may have had a particular deal in mind. That's why I think we really can't evaluate this trade until the other shoe falls.

It's amazing how much work he's done already, and it's only mid-December.

Domeshot17
12-14-2005, 10:50 PM
Garland is waiting around until july 24th, when we then trade him in a 4 team mega deal to bring back carl everett robbie alomar and geoff blum

Just in reponse to Kwolf ( sorry dont feel like copy and pasting qoutes) (1) I am all for team loyalty, but Im also all for repeating. Trading Aaron was hard, but it was a great baseball move. In turn, bringing Thome brought back Paulie, because he knew it was a major upgrade over Everett. Losing Frank was tough, but he deserves to play full time. El Duque, Everett, Viz, Damaso its all the business of baseball. We upgraded over all of them except the bullpen so far, and I am sure that will be adressed. I am 100% sure that if we finish the season with 105 wins and dominate the central again, you will learn to lose and love again with Thome and Vazquez and Anderson and Rob Mack.

(2) I am also a believer that CF is a less pressing need than Short. I think Crede is starting to imerge as a reliable hitting and already an amazing defensive 3b. Uribe seems to have the Corey Patterson syndrome, one very good season followed by BLAHHHHH. IF you have a chance to add a miguel tejada, maybe the most elite short stop in baseball discounting arod, for a sub par short stop a starting pitcher who leaves after the season and a replaceable prospect, you do it and do not think twice.

In the theory of using letter grades, Anderson A- Defensively B/B- offensive, Rowand A defensive B/B+ offensively, almost a wash. Short Stop, Tejada B/B+ Defense Solid A offensively compared to Uribe who is A/A- Defense and C/C- defense is a huge upgrade.

In my own pipedream, just thinking low radar move: Garland and Uribe for Wilkerson (2 hitter) and Micheal Young. Gives Anderson time as a 4th OF to break into the league, and takes over for Dye next year.

Realist
12-14-2005, 10:53 PM
From an Orioles message board in regards to a trade for Tejada:


Wow...and I thought this board had some unrealistic trade proposals.

Here's the board:
http://www.orioleshangout.com/forums/index.php (http://www.orioleshangout.com/forums/index.php)

They've got some really fiesty propellor heads over there - not too bright, but fiesty. :smile:

churlish
12-14-2005, 11:15 PM
Garland is waiting around until july 24th, when we then trade him in a 4 team mega deal to bring back carl everett robbie alomar and geoff blum
Now you're thinking! Although I think we could get Carl Everett and Alomar for Garland, I doubt he's worth Blum as well.

Exit_Only
12-15-2005, 12:57 AM
Wasn't KW able to trade for Bartolo Colon in part because of his relentless pursuit? IIRC, Colon's GM said KW was calling him often once he found out Colon was on trading block.

If Tejada is truly on the trading block, I feel comfortable knowing that KW will invest more time, effort and creativity than every other GM pursuing Tejada.

voodoochile
12-15-2005, 01:30 AM
I would suggest that Crawford suits a pressing need and COULD develop into a major impact guy if he isn't there already. The only thing Tejada gives over him is homers, and I think we have plenty of that. We need more rabbits. His average and OBP is already as good as Tejada and he'll steal far more bases playing a position where we just traded our starter and the "future Mr Everything Mr CF".

Plus Ozzie was saying he wanted more speed, speed, speed...Best place to get it? Center Field.

And no...I don't know if Crawford is on the market, probably not and if he is I would imagine the Rays asking price is the King's Ransom. I don't think we'll ever get a major deal worked out with that team. I guess one day they'll realize you can't start 6 outfielders and someone could become available.

Not Josh... Jeremyb1...

WCCMIKE
12-15-2005, 02:25 AM
Has Levine ever been right on anything he's reported ?

WhiteSoxFan84
12-15-2005, 04:40 AM
Has Levine ever been right on anything he's reported ?

Yes.... stuff that he hears from other stations and/or cities and reports them first in Chicago and then ESPN1000 claims, "As Levine reported first...".

That's what this whole rumor - and that's all it is, a rumor - is about. Him trying to stir the pot, make something happen, when it really has no truth to it at all. Remember the "contract offer to Konerko" made weeks before he started visiting with other clubs? Then it turns out he wasn't ever offered a contract until other teams started making him offers.

I hate to do this because I kind of want Miggy here (I'd still prefer Bobby Abreu over another slugger - we need a # 2 hitter not another # 3 or 4), but I just finished reading an article in today's (12/15) Baltimore Sun about Miggy and there was no mention at all of the White Sox. Here's a link to the article...
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/baseball/bal-sp.orioles15dec15,1,4225620.story?coll=bal-sports-baseball&ctrack=1&cset=true

BeviBall!
12-15-2005, 08:50 AM
Has Levine ever been right on anything he's reported ?

He got the Thome thing right... bringing his lifetime percentage up tp 8%.

Ol' No. 2
12-15-2005, 10:43 AM
Has Levine ever been right on anything he's reported ?Actually, he was the one to break the CLee trade last year. Even a blind squirrel....

D. TODD
12-15-2005, 10:53 AM
careful there.. if you wanna make that comparison you need to preface it with the fact that you're speaking of offense only. otherwise you're wrong.. Tejada >>> Uribe.. no.. Tejadea >? URibe.. yes Overall player = not close Tajeda >>>>>> Uribe

Flight #24
12-15-2005, 10:55 AM
FWIW - here's the relevant pieces from the Baltimore Sun article linked above:

according to industry sources, Tejada's representatives have not backed down from his trade request. Tejada's agent, Diego Bentz, declined to comment yesterday, citing agency policy.

The Orioles have listened to offers for the All-Star shortstop, and indications are that they would have to be completely overwhelmed to deal Tejada. The Red Sox offered their disgruntled All-Star, outfielder Manny Ramirez, for Tejada, according to industry sources, but were informed by the Orioles that it would take more than that to complete the deal.

Sources said that the Orioles told Boston that they'd want Ramirez and two pitchers for Tejada, but the Red Sox rejected the counterproposal.

According to sources familiar with the Orioles' plans, the club also is not interested in trading Tejada for prospects, and in any potential deal, the team would be looking for an All Star-caliber player in return. As of now, it appears that teams have been unable to match the Orioles' asking price.

Someone correct me, but wasn't Jon Garland an all-star? I certainly wouldn't do anything like Garland+McCarthy, but Garland+Uribe+any 1 or possibly even 2 prospects (Broadway/Liotta and Sweeney?) for Miggy and a LHRP would work for me. Your core for 2008 includes Vazquez, McCarthy, Contreras (resigned), One of Buehrle/Garcia (resigned) to go with Owens, Anderson, Crede, Iguchi, Konerko, Thome, Tejada, Pierzynski (resigned). That works for me to contend long-term.

Paulwny
12-15-2005, 11:07 AM
Without Garland signing a contract with the O's I doubt they would trade Tejada for a 1 year rent-a-player.

Flight #24
12-15-2005, 11:15 AM
FWIW, another quote from the Sun

It has been exactly one week since Tejada dropped his bomb on the organization, and a lot has been said about it, publicly and privately, by Mike Flanagan and Sam Perlozzo and Jim Duquette and Peter Angelos.

But no one has said any version of the phrase, "Hell no, we're not trading Tejada, so everybody stop asking."

If someone said that, chances are that everybody would stop asking -- reporters, fans, other teams. Since no one has said that, the questions continue. The possibility of Tejada being sent away remains. The doubts about the future, not to mention the sanity, of the organization stay alive.

The consensus on the O's board is that there's one of 3 options: Trade Miggy for an established all-star caliber player PLUS good prospects, go out and sign Millwood and someone else, or make a trade for overpaid guys or a trade that takes on a salary dump (the example given being Glaus+Luis Gonzalez).

The more I think about it, the more I think that the best thing they can do is to throw a ton of money at Millwood, or barring that to trade for Garland+Uribe+Sweeney+a lower pitching prospect, assuming KW would do that.

Paulwny
12-15-2005, 11:25 AM
FWIW, another quote from the Sun



The consensus on the O's board is that there's one of 3 options: Trade Miggy for an established all-star caliber player PLUS good prospects, go out and sign Millwood and someone else, or make a trade for overpaid guys or a trade that takes on a salary dump (the example given being Glaus+Luis Gonzalez).

The more I think about it, the more I think that the best thing they can do is to throw a ton of money at Millwood, or barring that to trade for Garland+Uribe+Sweeney+a lower pitching prospect, assuming KW would do that.

Since when does consensus on the O's board= consensus in the O's organization? It's no different than trades proposed on this board, I doubt this board influences KW.

Flight #24
12-15-2005, 11:28 AM
Since when does consensus on the O's board= consensus in the O's organization? It's no different than trades proposed on this board, I doubt this board influences KW.

100% accurate. However, some of that sentiment seems to be shared among the local press, which would theoretically have marginally greater information on the FO's thinking. Just passing along the local sentiment, not saying that it means anything.

WCCMIKE
12-15-2005, 11:33 AM
He got the Thome thing right... bringing his lifetime percentage up tp 8%.All i know is i could have sworn he said it was almost a done deal we would get Griffey:rolleyes:

Mickster
12-15-2005, 11:56 AM
All i know is i could have sworn he said it was almost a done deal we would get Griffey:rolleyes:

Brooks said that he was busy drafting the press release on Griffey when the deal fell through. I wouldn't necessarily blame Levine on that one......

Ol' No. 2
12-15-2005, 11:58 AM
Brooks said that he was busy drafting the press release on Griffey when the deal fell through. I wouldn't necessarily blame Levine on that one......Yeah. As I recall, it WAS a done deal until the Reds ownership nixed it. When all is said and done, I doubt Levineline is any better or worse than the other reporters out there. Take them all with a large grain of salt.

AZChiSoxFan
12-15-2005, 03:25 PM
Anybody hear any update on this rumor?

No, but I'll head out to the airport and try to eavesdrop on some cell phone conversations in the baggage claim area.

filmnews
12-15-2005, 11:56 PM
I just read on prosportsdaily.com, that the White Sox are trying to get Miguel Tejada. They will trade Garland and Uribe to Baltimore, for Miguel Tejada.

Crede_Fan
12-15-2005, 11:58 PM
What's the Score! Check it out there's atleast 3 pages in that thread.

IlliniSox4Life
12-16-2005, 12:05 AM
I just read on prosportsdaily.com, that the White Sox are trying to get Miguel Tejada. They will trade Garland and Uribe to Baltimore, for Miguel Tejada.

i hate you so very very much...

gettin my hopes up with that thread title

KRS1
12-16-2005, 12:06 AM
If I were you, I'd be ducking right................... about............. now!

ChiSoxLifer
12-16-2005, 12:07 AM
You should get banned for a headline like that.

HotelWhiteSox
12-16-2005, 12:07 AM
No offense, but there's a big difference between 'the Sox trying to get him' and him 'coming to the White Sox'

ilsox7
12-16-2005, 12:08 AM
i hate you so very very much...

gettin my hopes up with that thread title

I 2nd that. It's getting absurd around here with people who refuse to look for threads before running and posting their "news."

house215
12-16-2005, 12:09 AM
:angry:

worst
thread
ever

dont get my hopes up like that

dlee120
12-16-2005, 12:10 AM
this is the first I've heard of this!

KRS1
12-16-2005, 12:10 AM
Guys I just turned on my computer for the first time this week and i got some news that youre not gonna believe, we got Javier Vazquez. I know I couldnt believe it either.:D:

ilsox7
12-16-2005, 12:11 AM
Guys I just turned on my computer for the first time this week and i got some news that youre not gonna believe, we got Javier Vazquez. I know I couldnt believe it either.:D:

I heard we also drafted this big guy out of Auburn.

KRS1
12-16-2005, 12:12 AM
I heard we also drafted this big guy out of Auburn.

No way!!!! I thought we were gonna get that guy from ASU.

maristsox
12-16-2005, 12:12 AM
you just made me crap my pants i was so excited

nodiggity59
12-16-2005, 12:12 AM
If we never end up getting him, I hope this thread is burned in effigy and the poster burned at the stake :angry:.

dlee120
12-16-2005, 12:13 AM
I heard we also drafted this big guy out of Auburn.

Bo Jackson!?!?!?

tadscout
12-16-2005, 12:15 AM
:threadblows:

KRS1
12-16-2005, 12:17 AM
you just made me crap my pants i was so excited

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh:(:
I hope youre not wearing white pants.

ChiSoxLifer
12-16-2005, 12:18 AM
This reminds me of the Christmas when I didn't get the bicycle I kept wishing for.

ChiSoxlukes
12-16-2005, 12:20 AM
what a joke

Chisox003
12-16-2005, 12:26 AM
WOW

Someone go cut me a switch. He shall suffer.

:dtroll: