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View Full Version : CLee for Pods, Viz - One Year Later


Hitmen77
12-13-2005, 02:46 PM
The trade happened one year ago today.

kevin57
12-13-2005, 03:26 PM
Funny thing...one could probably argue statistically still that it was a bad move for the White Sox. I guess a WS can make all those stats stink. :smile:

itsnotrequired
12-13-2005, 03:33 PM
Funny thing...one could probably argue statistically still that it was a bad move for the White Sox. I guess a WS can make all those stats stink. :smile:

Baseball Prospectus has set the probability of the Sox winning the World Series at 88.8%.

MisterB
12-13-2005, 03:37 PM
Funny thing...one could probably argue statistically still that it was a bad move for the White Sox. I guess a WS can make all those stats stink. :smile:

Taking the money freed up by moving Lee (and what it was subsequently spent on) into account the final trade was essentially Lee for Pods, Vizcaino, El Duque and Pierzynski (and a minor leaguer). I wonder what the stats would say about that 4-for-1 kind of deal.

Frater Perdurabo
12-13-2005, 03:38 PM
Horrible deal. Fire Kenny now.
:rolleyes:

jdm2662
12-13-2005, 03:50 PM
Our offense stinks! How dare the Sox go cheap and trade my boy Carlos!!!!!!! I miss Carlos!!!!!

SoxSpeed22
12-13-2005, 04:04 PM
Funny thing...one could probably argue statistically still that it was a bad move for the White Sox. I guess a WS can make all those stats stink. :smile:http://msn.foxsports.com/fe/img/Writers/headshots/217.jpg"Hey!"

flo-B-flo
12-13-2005, 04:52 PM
Everytime I see Pods walkoff I almost start crying again. Everytime. So **** C. Lee. :smile:

chaotic8512
12-13-2005, 05:00 PM
Oh trust me, it still undergoes criticism, not from anyone intelligent though. I had to defend it against a Cubs fan earlier today on another forum. The sad thing is he still sees it as a horrible trade... :rolleyes:

Can we say sour grapes?

ShoelessJoeS
12-13-2005, 05:07 PM
Taking the money freed up by moving Lee (and what it was subsequently spent on) into account the final trade was essentially Lee for Pods, Vizcaino, El Duque and Pierzynski (and a minor leaguer). I wonder what the stats would say about that 4-for-1 kind of deal.
I would say 5 for 1 becasue we got Iguchi after the CLee trade which makes Kenny even more of a genius

Iwritecode
12-13-2005, 05:09 PM
Baseball Prospectus has set the probability of the Sox winning the World Series at 88.8%.

I don't think the teal is even necessary...

Hangar18
12-13-2005, 05:09 PM
Right about now, Old Roman chimes in with a "Hangar loves Carlos" post .....:cool:

itsnotrequired
12-13-2005, 05:13 PM
Oh trust me, it still undergoes criticism, not from anyone intelligent though. I had to defend it against a Cubs fan earlier today on another forum. The sad thing is he still sees it as a horrible trade... :rolleyes:

Can we say sour grapes?

I think it has less to do with sour grapes and more to do with the knotheads who take the stats as Gospel.

Fake Chet Lemon
12-13-2005, 05:20 PM
Both teams got what they needed, Brewers did OK too. I think Viz will have a good 2006, Ozzie struggled to find him a role last year. He'll do better with a defined role and more consistent work.

CanBuehrleWait
12-13-2005, 05:28 PM
Viz gets a heavy amount of edit:(crap) on here, but after the first two months his stats were pretty good. That's all I got. :smile:

edit: Don't want a ban for filter dodging

Iwritecode
12-13-2005, 05:36 PM
Viz gets a heavy amount of edit:(crap) on here, but after the first two months his stats were pretty good. That's all I got. :smile:

edit: Don't want a ban for filter dodging

Just spell the word out and let the filter take care of the rest. :wink:

Jerome
12-13-2005, 05:39 PM
When the trade was made, I was furious. Could you blame me? Pods was coming off a bad year, Lee was one of our best players, and we want to put this bum who hits .240 with a .313 OBP in the leadoff spot?

However, after the signing of Pierzynski, El Duque, Dye, and Iguchi (I really liked the Dye and Iguchi signings :smile:), I congratulated KW on a great offseason. I didn't have too may worries about the team until spring training, where I saw Garland and Contreras get shelled and panicked. :rolleyes:

HomeFish
12-13-2005, 05:43 PM
This is like the Garcia trade because the key to it came later.

Half a season of Garcia for Olivo/Reed, given the standings at the time of the trade, was a terrible trade. A few years of Garcia for Olivo/Reed, however, is a masterstroke. The key there was the extension.

Likewise this. Dumping Carlos means little if Jerry sticks the money in his pocket. But add el duque, iguchi, AJ...

HomeFish
12-13-2005, 05:45 PM
When the trade was made, I was furious. Could you blame me? Pods was coming off a bad year, Lee was one of our best players, and we want to put this bum who hits .240 with a .313 OBP in the leadoff spot?


The day after the trade I saw a guy who looked a lot like Kenny Williams. I told him that he should grow a beard or something, or some Sox fan might mistake him for the real thing with unpleasant consequences for him.

These days, I bet he doesn't mind being mistaken for KW.

buehrle4cy05
12-13-2005, 05:47 PM
I think I felt the same way about the CLee trade as I did when Rowand was traded. I had that initial shock of losing (for me) a fan favorite. But when I looked at what was coming back, and I heard how Pods said he would shorten his stroke and not try to hit too many home runs, I felt great about it. Same thing with the Rowand trade, I feel great about it after the initial shock.

CanBuehrleWait
12-13-2005, 06:41 PM
Just spell the word out and let the filter take care of the rest. :wink:
Cool sounds good. Orginally I said 'poop' but thought I recalled somebody getting a ban for that on language filter implications. But then again I might just be Crazy :wired::smile:

ChiSoxIn06
12-13-2005, 06:47 PM
I actually liked the trade when it happened because Pods had 70 SB on a bad year in 04. I always thought that after 2000 the sox needed to go in a new direction and finally in 2005 it came together and you all know how it ended.

kevin57
12-13-2005, 07:55 PM
I was honestly okay with the trade, or actually the multiplicity of trades by KW. Power and BA were sacrificed for versatility in skills...and attitude. I don't know how many of you caught it, but in an Ozzie interview right after the WS, he said that after last season he had lost patience with guys who wouldn't do the little things (e.g., bunt). I wonder about whom he was speaking? :cool:

Hitmen77
12-13-2005, 09:45 PM
I went back to look at our thread from the day of the trade and it was funny to read some of the reactions in hindsight. Highlights included someone comparing the new Sox lineup to the '02 Tigers and another poster listing our lineup and saying the rest of the league was laughing at us.

Yet, most people understood that the trade would free up $$$ that would allow KW to make other acquisitions.

....and yes, I wasn't happy with the trade either. :rolleyes:

Realist
12-13-2005, 10:25 PM
I went back to look at our thread from the day of the trade and it was funny to read some of the reactions in hindsight. Highlights included someone comparing the new Sox lineup to the '02 Tigers and another poster listing our lineup and saying the rest of the league was laughing at us.

Yet, most people understood that the trade would free up $$$ that would allow KW to make other acquisitions.

....and yes, I wasn't happy with the trade either. :rolleyes:

I believe this guy (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=544534&postcount=455) was the first person in that thread to come right out in favor of the trade. I suppose even a blind dog finds a bone once in awhile. :wink:

Norberto7
12-13-2005, 10:51 PM
I believe this guy (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=544534&postcount=455) was the first person in that thread to come right out in favor of the trade. I suppose even a blind dog finds a bone once in awhile. :wink:

The first 454 posts in that thread were against the trade? :cool:

Realist
12-13-2005, 11:03 PM
The first 454 posts in that thread were against the trade? :cool:

Not really. There was a lot of sweating it out wondering what the trade was going to be. Once it was official, a bunch of people started to flip out and jump ship. Some people were on the fence and said they'd only like the trade if Kenny went out and got a top notch starter, but they were pessimistic about that happening after the Sox lost out on Colon.

At the time I was already a FOKW and he had already stated he was going to go after a free agent starter. I trusted him and he later landed El Duque.

3rdgensoxfan
12-13-2005, 11:06 PM
Oh trust me, it still undergoes criticism, not from anyone intelligent though. I had to defend it against a Cubs fan earlier today on another forum. The sad thing is he still sees it as a horrible trade... :rolleyes:

Can we say sour grapes?

Nah, he just remembers those Sox/Cubs games when Lee burned the Cubs with his bat.

34 Inch Stick
12-14-2005, 09:50 AM
The hallmark of a good trade is that both teams look back and think they got the better end of the deal. That clearly happened here.