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View Full Version : Do you believe in Bobby Jenks?


WhiteSoxFan84
12-13-2005, 12:41 AM
I'm not looking to put any doubt in anyone's mind, I just want to know if the doubt I have in my mind should be there or not.

Do you guys think Bobby is good enough to be our closer? Yes, I know he looked pretty good at the end of the regular season and in the first couple of rounds in the playoffs. However, we also saw him struggle in the World Series. And if it's true about this guy not having nothing but a fastball on certain days and if it's true that this guy's fastball is as straight as a straight line, do you trust this guy in a 1-run game? Or even a 2-run game (i.e. Game 2 of World Series)?

I like the fact that we still have Dustin Hermanson incase Bobby struggles, but will Dustin be healthy? I think we can use a 3rd or maybe even 2nd "string" closer if we can get our hands on one. I'm pretty sure Kenny Williams isn't done yet this offseason, but I just wanted to see if anyone else shares this opinion or if I'm just being a little too paranoid.

And to all of you who will throw Jenks' stats from last season in my face, I have two words for you; Shingo Takastu. Check out these numbers...

Shingo Takastu
2004 (1st year as MLB closer): 6-4, 2.31, 19 SV, 1 BS, 0.98 WHIP
2005* (2nd year as MLB closer): 1-2, 5.97, 8 SV, 1 BS, 1.60 WHIP
* = with White Sox

Bobby Jenks
2005 (1st year as MLB closer): 1-1, 2.75, 6 SV, 2 BS, 1.25 WHIP


Kind of scary how Shingo went from very reliable to very hittable. The league caught up with him? His stuff got worse? Both? Who knows. But it can happen to Bobby.

Don't get me wrong, the kid has some serious heat and I love watching him pitch. But I will choose my team's success over an individual player's feelings any day.

gowhitesox
12-13-2005, 01:06 AM
Bobby Jenks proved to me that he can pitch under pressure. Being released by the Angels a year ago, Sox picked him up, sent down to AA ball brought up in July and now the rest is part of White Sox history. He could very easily have chocked under pressure in game 4 of the World Series with a 1-0 lead in the bottom of the 9th. Bobby's performance in the clutch is one of the reasons the Chicago White Sox are World Champions. I have faith in him.

Chisox003
12-13-2005, 01:08 AM
Yes.

Next.

OEO Magglio
12-13-2005, 01:48 AM
However, we also saw him struggle in the World Series.
He had one bad game in the world series. He was flat out unhittable in game 1, made a mistake to vizcaino in game 2 by throwing him an outside fastball, pitched well in game 3, and closed out game 4. So in the playoffs he had 1 bad game and this is including facing the best offense in baseball in the Red Sox. I'm not worried about Bobby at all.

TheOldRoman
12-13-2005, 01:51 AM
He had one bad game in the world series. He was flat out unhittable in game 1, made a mistake to vizcaino in game 2 by throwing him an outside fastball, pitched well in game 3, and closed out game 4. So in the playoffs he had 1 bad game and this is including facing the best offense in baseball in the Red Sox. I'm not worried about Bobby at all. Don't forget that he was getting squeezed like a mother in game 2. He had no choice but to throw it over the heart of the plate. The first baserunner walked on 4 straight strikes. I'm just glad it didn't cost us.

As for Shingo, the league didn't catch up to him. He pitched like crap this year. From the beginning of the year he was off, and he never got on track. His whole problem was that he couldn't locate. He would miss outside on the first two pitches, and then have to throw a get-me-over-fastball. Get-me-over fastballs get hit pretty hard when they travel 86 mph. I don't know what caused his location problems, but the league did not "catch up to him".

WhiteSoxFan84
12-13-2005, 02:01 AM
Guys, in game 1 of the World Series, he looked unhittable because he had Jeff Bagwell up there swinging with 1 arm. After Bagwell, he got by the next 3 guys mainly because the crowd was so damn hyped up and we had all the momentum. And who were the last 3 outs? Heck, who the hell does Houston have in their line-up that scares you? Lance Berkman and maybe Morgan Ensberg.

I just don't think a straight fastball will get you by; be it 99 MPH or 85 MPH. It may work for 3 months, but eventually you will get rocked. You think A-Rod cares if Jenks' fastball is 90 MPH or 101MPH? He will sit on it and eat it for dinner. The same goes for Travis Hafner, Joe Mauer, Magglio Ordonez, etc. Unless he constantly can throw that curveball or maybe develop a solid change-up, IN MY OPINION, he won't last long.

SOXintheBURGH
12-13-2005, 02:02 AM
Hmm.. In regards to the AL.....

NYY have Rivera (No questions asked)

Angels have K-Rod (Stud, with some Pale Hose jimmies)

Tribe (Old... Wickman again, on the Board)

Red Cubs (Schelling? Foulke? Papelbon!? Who knows?!)

Minny (Nathan, stud, but, are we gonna ever be down to Minny!?)






World Series Champions (103 mph, brutal break... I rest with comfort).

elrod
12-13-2005, 02:08 AM
Reasons to doubt Bobby Jenks?
His fastball drops about 4mph when he pitches two straight days. It doesn't have enough bite at 95mph to get past decent hitters. And when he misses with his curve ball in one pitch he ditches it altogether. Remember the Aaron Boone at-bat?

Reasons to trust Bobby Jenks?
No better crunch time than the post-season and boy did he deliver.
Total post-season stats:

IP 8
H 4
BB 3
WHIP 0.88
ER 2
ERA 2.25
SV 4/5
OPS/A .443

Yeah, that'll work. He got squeezed on the Chris Burke at-bat and made a bad first pitch to Vizcaino. Other than that, he was perfect in the post-season.

If he keeps getting rocked when he goes out on consecutive days then he'll have to be made unavailable every other day (Hermy can fill in), or he'll have to improve his change-up. But I have no doubts about his psyche. In fact, the way the team picked him after the blown save in Game Two was one of the greatest things I've ever seen.

elrod
12-13-2005, 02:10 AM
Guys, in game 1 of the World Series, he looked unhittable because he had Jeff Bagwell up there swinging with 1 arm. After Bagwell, he got by the next 3 guys mainly because the crowd was so damn hyped up and we had all the momentum. And who were the last 3 outs? Heck, who the hell does Houston have in their line-up that scares you? Lance Berkman and maybe Morgan Ensberg.

I just don't think a straight fastball will get you by; be it 99 MPH or 85 MPH. It may work for 3 months, but eventually you will get rocked. You think A-Rod cares if Jenks' fastball is 90 MPH or 101MPH? He will sit on it and eat it for dinner. The same goes for Travis Hafner, Joe Mauer, Magglio Ordonez, etc. Unless he constantly can throw that curveball or maybe develop a solid change-up, IN MY OPINION, he won't last long.

He definitely needs a good off-speed pitch, but he has one in his arsenal. He needs to work on getting better control of the curve, and he needs to mix in the change more often.

Konerko05
12-13-2005, 02:11 AM
Guys, in game 1 of the World Series, he looked unhittable because he had Jeff Bagwell up there swinging with 1 arm. After Bagwell, he got by the next 3 guys mainly because the crowd was so damn hyped up and we had all the momentum. And who were the last 3 outs? Heck, who the hell does Houston have in their line-up that scares you? Lance Berkman and maybe Morgan Ensberg.

I just don't think a straight fastball will get you by; be it 99 MPH or 85 MPH. It may work for 3 months, but eventually you will get rocked. You think A-Rod cares if Jenks' fastball is 90 MPH or 101MPH? He will sit on it and eat it for dinner. The same goes for Travis Hafner, Joe Mauer, Magglio Ordonez, etc. Unless he constantly can throw that curveball or maybe develop a solid change-up, IN MY OPINION, he won't last long.

No, in game 1 of the World Series, he looked unhittable because he was unhittable. He got the next 3 guys becaue the crowd was hyped up? I don't know about that. When he is fresh, his stuff is electric.

And yes, I do think A-Rod cares if Jenks' fastball is 90 MPH or 101 MPH. When he is hitting 100 MPH, his fastball is probably the most powerful in the league. Combined with his hard breaking curveball, Jenks looks nearly unhittable.

The main problem I noticed is that Jenks doesn't have his great stuff everytime out there. I have my concerns about how well he can actually handle pitching 2 or 3 games in a row. The reason Jenks was so unhittable in game 1 of the World Series was because he had nearly 2 weeks off before that game. I'm hoping this was just a result of Jenks' arm adjusting to pitching out of the bullpen for a full season. I would like to see how he responds next year.

mjmcend
12-13-2005, 02:16 AM
I believe in his stuff and his mental makeup, what worries me is his stamina and his health. I don't think he pitch 80 + innings. He will need his rest, and I hope Ozzie gives it to him and that we have a reliable substitute (which I believe we do in Cliff, Dustin, and Neal).

TheKittle
12-13-2005, 02:48 AM
Having seen the Bob James and the Lamar Hoyts of the past, I am more worried about Jenks eating and training habits. If he shows up in ST looking like a OL for the Bears, then I would be worried.

If he comes in reasonable shape, I don't have many worries. But I do think a good couple weeks shouldn't be a judgement for a full season success. So while I'm confident Jenks can be the next good closer, I wouldn't bet everything I own on that happening.

ATXBMX
12-13-2005, 03:23 AM
Don't even compare Jenks with Shingo. That's not a very good argument. Shingo throws nothing but junk, and he's at least ten years older than Jenks. They are two completely different pitchers. It is much easier to sit on a BP fastball than it is a 100 mph fastball.

VASoxfan1
12-13-2005, 07:05 AM
I was under the impression that he had a cutter in the 96 or 97 mph range?

You also have to remember this. Jenks is 24 years old and this was his first full year as a closer. He was in the angels system as a starter and the white sox were the ones to convert him into his new role. Pitching as a closer is completely different he'll learn how to mix in the curve/cutter(?) so that his fastball is that much more explosive.

and i have faith in a guy that that is willing to go two innings against the red sox offense in your first playoff appearance. If he can do that then i imagine he can go back to back days.

IlliniSox4Life
12-13-2005, 07:17 AM
I have every bit of faith in Jenks. As long as he stays healthy, he should be very good, and the only reason to question his health is his weight. He's a young guy, so that shouldn't be that big of a problem.

itsnotrequired
12-13-2005, 07:49 AM
You also have to remember this. Jenks is 24 years old and this was his first full year as a closer. He was in the angels system as a starter and the white sox were the ones to convert him into his new role. Pitching as a closer is completely different he'll learn how to mix in the curve/cutter(?) so that his fastball is that much more explosive..

Good point. He is still very young. It will be interesting to see how his curve develops over the off-season/spring training.

1951Campbell
12-13-2005, 07:56 AM
Until he has a long stretch of ineffectiveness, yes. And I don't see such a stretch coming anytime soon.

akingamongstmen
12-13-2005, 08:07 AM
Electric stuff + Closing out the World Series = I believe in Bobby Jenks

downstairs
12-13-2005, 08:12 AM
Please remember... Shingo is a trick pitcher. Hitters figure that stuff out after a few go-rounds.

kevin57
12-13-2005, 08:12 AM
I believe in him...but I do wonder about next year. After all, the more common experience is for relievers to show some decline after a spectacular starting year.

I do think if his flaming fast ball (meaning 97+mph) is combined well with something that breaks a bit, he'll be fine.

tschneid83
12-13-2005, 08:19 AM
Do you guys think Bobby is good enough to be our closer? I only have one thing to add and it has sort of been mentioned in different ways but you can not teach someone to throw a 100mph fastball so for that reason I believe the Sox will work hard with him to make him the closer they want. You can however teach a curve, change, cutters, and they will. Lets just see if his off-season workout schedule included some gym time or couch time. Then see how spring training goes then we can start to see what we got. Last year was last year and I am glad bobby was able to do what he did. We will see what we got this year.

FoulTerritory
12-13-2005, 08:24 AM
I have every bit of faith in Jenks. As long as he stays healthy, he should be very good, and the only reason to question his health is his weight. He's a young guy, so that shouldn't be that big of a problem.

I agree with your sentiments. I have faith in him as well, but also am concerned about injuries. He is overweight, and furthermore, has had arm problems before. Isn't there a pin in his elbow?

The Racehorse
12-13-2005, 08:37 AM
As long as those who have influence over his continued development remain intact [Ozzie & Coop directly -- A.J. & Buehrle peer influence/leadership], there's no reason to think that Bobby will not stay focused.

twsoxfan5
12-13-2005, 08:48 AM
You think A-Rod cares if Jenks' fastball is 90 MPH or 101MPH? He will sit on it and eat it for dinner.

I dont think anyone can sit on a 101mph fastball. I think you pretty m,uch have to swing as soon as it leaves Bobby's hand to have any chance. You can sit on a 68mph change, but not 101 mph fastball.

getonbckthr
12-13-2005, 08:49 AM
K-Rod did the same thing with the Angels. Why can't Bobby follow his lead.

bobowhite
12-13-2005, 09:03 AM
Shingo and Bobby have nothing in common apart from the uniform that they both wore.

Jenks is a classic 'gas man'. Takatsu threw all garbage. Even the muscles that they fatigued and limited their ability to be effective again was different.

Jenks' delivery is a classic high-power delivery, it depends on the biggest muscles in your body: your legs, butt and back. Those muscles respond best to work everyday and build up their endurance over the course of a season. 'Gas men' respond best to closing every day or nearly every day (optimal is about 5 appearances per week, each lasting 20 pitches or less.) His small 'rotational' arm muscles respond differently; these control his curveball. They can be fatigued when the big muscles aren't. If Jenks curveball isn't working, he shouldn't throw it. His change (the circle change that is) works on the big muscles so it remains effective on those days.

Takatsu was all about the 'rotational' muscle control. The muscles of his forearm which control imparting a spin to the ball fatigue much slower than big muscles (he can throw more pitches in an outing.) But they also recover more slowly. Optimal for Takatsu is to throw every other day (3 appearances per week, lasting 25-30 pitches each.)

Ozzie just plain did not understand this. He constantly used Takatsu as a 'gas man' style closer. Using a player wrong is setting them up to fail and fail Takatsu did. Ozzie's use of Takatsu was like having AJ bat lead-off, the wrong guy in the wrong spot.

Can Jenks fail? Sure. Relief pitchers tend to have up and then down years. Bobbie Thigpen lasted a few years and then his arm fell off. Ozzie does know how to use Jenks and he did use him well this year.

I predict Jenks will have difficulties in ST this year (not big difficulties, but difficulties.) Once the season starts and Jenks starts getting regular work then he'll be fine. His curveball will come and go, but his change and fastball will still light a lot of guys up. He'll get hit a few times, but that happens.

soxfanatlanta
12-13-2005, 09:44 AM
After watching him go from misfit-castaway to pitching his heart out in the WS, I cannot help but love the guy. What a story! He came up HUGH when it really counted, and other than Jose V's hit to left, his stuff was either unhittable, or dribbler city. He has the stuff to be a good closer, and the potential to be a great one. Not in the league of a Gagne or a Rivera, but opposing teams will not want to face him.

However...

I've seen way too many closers go from dominant, to hold your breath when he walks the first batter, to Dan Kolb in a matter of weeks, it just scares the hell out of me. It does not matter if any of us believe in him. Nor does it matter if the media believes in him either. If Bobby Jenks believes in himself, he will be fine.

What did we decide to call Jenks anyway?

B-Jenks??

JUST KIDDING!!!!! :D:

Buddy Lee?

nlentz88
12-13-2005, 10:18 AM
What did we decide to call Jenks anyway?

I always liked "Spud."

soltrain21
12-13-2005, 10:53 AM
I think what you should be worried about is if Bobby Jenks believes in YOU.

Jjav829
12-13-2005, 10:59 AM
:everett:
"I don't believe in Bobby Jenks because the Bible never said anything about Bobby Jenks. He doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned."

beckett21
12-13-2005, 11:00 AM
:everett:
"I don't believe in Bobby Jenks because the Bible never said anything about Bobby Jenks. He doesn't exist as far as I'm concerned."

:rolling:

Do I believe?

Yes, yes, and hell yes. :cool:

The Dude
12-13-2005, 11:13 AM
No, in game 1 of the World Series, he looked unhittable because he was unhittable. He got the next 3 guys becaue the crowd was hyped up? I don't know about that. When he is fresh, his stuff is electric.

And yes, I do think A-Rod cares if Jenks' fastball is 90 MPH or 101 MPH. When he is hitting 100 MPH, his fastball is probably the most powerful in the league. Combined with his hard breaking curveball, Jenks looks nearly unhittable.

The main problem I noticed is that Jenks doesn't have his great stuff everytime out there. I have my concerns about how well he can actually handle pitching 2 or 3 games in a row. The reason Jenks was so unhittable in game 1 of the World Series was because he had nearly 2 weeks off before that game. I'm hoping this was just a result of Jenks' arm adjusting to pitching out of the bullpen for a full season. I would like to see how he responds next year.

Well considering he was a starter for most of his minor league career....I think his arm can take a lot of work. The problem with him being the closer is he is still a kid and has had many mood/drinking problems with the Angels....so hopefully those are behind him and he can stick to closing.

infohawk
12-13-2005, 11:14 AM
When Bobby develops more control with his curveball he will be essentially unhittable.

WestSox
12-13-2005, 11:16 AM
I'm not completely sold on him, but I like what I've seen so far. It'd be nice if he could develop a good changeup, but he's still young and will have time to do that.

Does anybody know what "personal issues" he went through that got him released from Anaheim? The media seemed to make a big deal out of that during the playoffs, but didn't offer any details.

Konerko05
12-13-2005, 11:22 AM
Well considering he was a starter for most of his minor league career....I think his arm can take a lot of work. The problem with him being the closer is he is still a kid and has had many mood/drinking problems with the Angels....so hopefully those are behind him and he can stick to closing.

I believe his drinking problems are behind him. I don't think his drinking problems in Anaheim were the reason he was only hitting 95 MPH while trying to close on back to back days.

There was a noticeable difference when Jenks was pitching with a couple days rest. Like I said this could be a result of Jenks pitching out of the bullpen for a full season. Some pitchers might need to adjust to a different pitching schedule. There is no doubt in my mind that Jenks can be a dominant closer. I just hope that his arm can handle it.

The Dude
12-13-2005, 11:27 AM
I believe his drinking problems are behind him. I don't think his drinking problems in Anaheim were the reason he was only hitting 95 MPH while trying to close on back to back days.

There was a noticeable difference when Jenks was pitching with a couple days rest. Like I said this could be a result of Jenks pitching out of the bullpen for a full season. Some pitchers might need to adjust to a different pitching schedule. There is no doubt in my mind that Jenks can be a dominant closer. I just hope that his arm can handle it.

Well i hope youre right about them being behind him..

And with regards to his arm....I have much more faith in him than Hermanson coming back to close because of his back. I think Bobby will obviously adjust his offseason training to focus on being a closer/reliever which should allow for his change in pitching schedule.

WestSox
12-13-2005, 11:28 AM
I believe his drinking problems are behind him. I don't think his drinking problems in Anaheim were the reason he was only hitting 95 MPH while trying to close on back to back days.

Ah, that's what I get for not reading all of the posts. Thanks.

buehrle4cy05
12-13-2005, 11:36 AM
Sombody already posted it in this thread...if Bobby gets control of his curveball, he is going to be the next great closer in baseball.

D. TODD
12-13-2005, 11:41 AM
I believe he is capable of being a damn good closer. I also believe he needs to become consistent with his breaking ball, and get into better shape to be anywhere near a dominant closer for the entire season.

bigdommer
12-13-2005, 11:46 AM
Guys, in game 1 of the World Series, he looked unhittable because he had Jeff Bagwell up there swinging with 1 arm. After Bagwell, he got by the next 3 guys mainly because the crowd was so damn hyped up and we had all the momentum. And who were the last 3 outs? Heck, who the hell does Houston have in their line-up that scares you? Lance Berkman and maybe Morgan Ensberg.

I just don't think a straight fastball will get you by; be it 99 MPH or 85 MPH. It may work for 3 months, but eventually you will get rocked. You think A-Rod cares if Jenks' fastball is 90 MPH or 101MPH? He will sit on it and eat it for dinner. The same goes for Travis Hafner, Joe Mauer, Magglio Ordonez, etc. Unless he constantly can throw that curveball or maybe develop a solid change-up, IN MY OPINION, he won't last long.

Alas, we have found out what makes Mariano Rivera so good: the crowd gets him hyped up. The crowd was just as hyped up after Konerko's grand slam in game 2 as it was in game 1.

Troy Percival racked up over 300 saves with just a straight 97 MPH fastball. Billy Wagner is one of the best in the game with his 100 MPH straight fastball and a slider. Would I like it if Bobby Jenks had a 95 MPH cutter like Rivera or Nathan? Of course, but then again, I would like to see Shoeless Joe playing CF this year too.

Stoky44
12-13-2005, 11:57 AM
Anybody know where Shingo is now, or what he is doing? Pitching in Japan again? Out of the game? In the minors?

WhiteSoxFan84
12-13-2005, 11:58 AM
K-Rod did the same thing with the Angels. Why can't Bobby follow his lead.

Have you seen K-Rod's slider and curveball? Yes, he also throws 99 MPH, but have you seen the other 2 pitches? They are disgusting.

RichFitztightly
12-13-2005, 11:59 AM
Man oh man, I said the same thing as many people in this thread when he first came up here and I got skewered for it. To be consistently dominant, he needs another pitch to compliment his fastball. The curveball is just too erratic of a pitch, especially with his big break to be consistently effective. When he gets those days where the curve isn't working, he becomes a one pitch hitter and most major leaguers could hit that.

With either a changeup or a cutter he could become consistently dominating. As it is now he'll likely be occasionally dominating and consistently good. I'm a personal fan of throwing a changeup, but a cutter could be equally devastating especially if he develops a little tail on his fastball.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-13-2005, 12:00 PM
You think A-Rod cares if Jenks' fastball is 90 MPH or 101MPH? He will sit on it and eat it for dinner.

I dont think anyone can sit on a 101mph fastball. I think you pretty m,uch have to swing as soon as it leaves Bobby's hand to have any chance. You can sit on a 68mph change, but not 101 mph fastball.

How long have you been watching baseball for? I don't mean to offend you, but the easiest pitch a hitter can hit is a fastball that doesn't move. It doesn't matter if it's 91 or 101 MPH, unless Scott Podsednik or some of those skinnier contact hitters are up there. But you put the game's better hitters up there, they will crush it. Just look at what Albert Pujols did to Brad Lidge's fastball in the Game 5 of the NLCS this past October. He sat on it, knew it was coming, he saw it coming at 99 MPH, he saw it exit stage left at 175 MPH.

batmanZoSo
12-13-2005, 12:03 PM
I don't trust him at all. He'll have to prove himself over the course of another year to make me believe he's really a quality closer. He was very shaky in the World Series, although I don't mean to be too critical because he never lost us a game. However, he never got his curveball over and his control was pretty subpar overall. You can credit the success he had in the World Series to simple velocity and being virtually unknown, especially to NL teams. Not to mention we were simply not going to lose no matter what. I think he can, but I'll have to wait and see if he will. His game 1 performance, I must say was outstanding if that's the one where he struck out Bagwell. But we'll see.

WhiteSoxFan84
12-13-2005, 12:03 PM
I think what you should be worried about is if Bobby Jenks believes in YOU.

He told me he did. But he got mad at me when Dustin Hermanson walked by and Dustin said, "Hey, that's the guy that on Opening Day said I'd be the closer this year!"

True story. Opening Day I was sitting 10 rows from the bullpen. I saw Dustin sitting down next to Cliff Politte and I screamed out, "Dustinnn! I see the closer role being your's in the very near future!" Cliff turned around first to look at me and then he turned around, looked at me, and kinda laughed it off.

Of course Shingo had a perfect 9th frame that game so I kind of looked stupid, but guess what ended up happening...

Dick Allen
12-13-2005, 12:13 PM
I don't trust him at all. He'll have to prove himself over the course of another year to make me believe he's really a quality closer. He was very shaky in the World Series, although I don't mean to be too critical because he never lost us a game. However, he never got his curveball over and his control was pretty subpar overall. You can credit the success he had in the World Series to simple velocity and being virtually unknown, especially to NL teams. Not to mention we were simply not going to lose no matter what. I think he can, but I'll have to wait and see if he will. His game 1 performance, I must say was outstanding if that's the one where he struck out Bagwell. But we'll see.I have to disagree. In the ninth inning of game 1, he struck out Jason Lane on a nasty breaking ball leading off the inning. And we all remember the last out of the Series, getting Palmeiro on a breaking ball. While this past season may not be a large enough sample size to judge how he would do over the course of an entire season, the signs are there that he could be special. He'll have his ups and downs like any closer, but all we can do is wait and see.

soxfanreggie
12-13-2005, 12:18 PM
IBIB!!!!!

I Believe In Bobby

WhiteSoxFan84
12-13-2005, 12:24 PM
I have to disagree. In the ninth inning of game 1, he struck out Jason Lane on a nasty breaking ball leading off the inning. And we all remember the last out of the Series, getting Palmeiro on a breaking ball. While this past season may not be a large enough sample size to judge how he would do over the course of an entire season, the signs are there that he could be special. He'll have his ups and downs like any closer, but all we can do is wait and see.

I see your point, but the facts remain; 1) the Astros had never seen him before, 2) the Astros couldn't hit all year long, 3) the Astros sucked, and oh yeh, 4) Jenks was very well rested going into Game 1. He won't see that much rest during the regular season.

VASoxfan1
12-13-2005, 12:24 PM
I think everyone is being quick to judge bobby. We only saw him on the major league level for half a season. And part of that season was the playoffs. He did have some amazing post season starts (game 2 of the ALDS) and some shaky ones but last time i checked mariano rivera doesn't come out perfect everytime (more like 99%).

Is there gonna be an adjustment period when he's shaky for a bit and dominant for others? yes. can he wear down with over use? yes.

But after last years pitching performances (bullpen & starters) in don cooper i trust

soxinem1
12-13-2005, 12:36 PM
Comparing Bobby to Shingo is the preverbial apple to an orange.

There have been dozens of rookie closers who have burst on the scene like Jenks, and many have fallen flat. Charley Kerfeld with Houston in the mid-80's was a similar Jenks-type guy, though I don't think he threw quite as hard. But he was one and done, by the next season Kerfeld was back in the minors for good.

There have been many rookie pitching stars that became either complacent or hurt, and thus drifted away into oblivion. I personally, knowing our rookie hero is quite a free spirit, have a hint of caution regarding his future;

1. Because of his size (how many closers are as big as Bobby?) and conditioning, will he be serious?

2. Remember, he is less than two years from major arm surgery, and there has been some doubt about his back-to-back game effectiveness. Teams now know that that can be an issue and may be more geared up against him, ie, he'll have to make adjustments.

3. Righties ate him up, plain and simple, and it was more pronounced as the year went on. When Jenks threw low, over the plate strikes he was hit pretty hard.

4. Though it's not totally imperative for closers, Konerko can walk into second stealing off him, he's way too easy to run on. He's got to hold the runners a little better and speed up a half second or so going to the plate.

But his composure and overall performance was just astounding, not even taking into account that he has a few months of experience at AA ball for his closing resume. Hats off to Guillen for breaking him in the way he did, I think that was a big help to the big guy.

I was at a game against the Tigers last year and sat in the scout section. Jenks came in to mop up the ninth and the scouts, including Jim Fregosi, made the place look like a State Troopers convention with all the radar guns popping out! One of the ccouts told me that they knew about his gas, but they were interested in the movement and speed on a cutter they heard he was working on.

So if you all remember Johnny Damon's face in Game 3 of the ALDS when Jenks threw him a cutter in, and he popped it up. He looked at Jenks like 'Where the hell did that come from?' as he walked away.

This kid has the potential to be top flight, but in the end, it's up to him. If he shows up looking like Bob James or Kerfeld in the spring, that means he does not take this serious. But if he makes some slight tweaks, he may be a force for years to come.

Either way, what a great story! They should remake 'The Rookie' into the 'Bobby Jenks Story'. I just hope they don't pick Louie Anderson for the role!

TheDarkGundam
12-13-2005, 03:08 PM
Do I believe in Bobby Jenks? Take a gander at my sig. :cool:

RadioheadRocks
12-13-2005, 07:55 PM
Hell yeah!


Bobby Jenks, ladies and gentlemen!!! :supernana: :bandance: :supernana: :bandance: :supernana: :bandance: :supernana: :bandance: :supernana:

Sure felt good typing that again!!! :D:

delben91
12-13-2005, 08:01 PM
I like the fact that we still have Dustin Hermanson incase Bobby struggles, but will Dustin be healthy? I think we can use a 3rd or maybe even 2nd "string" closer if we can get our hands on one. I'm pretty sure Kenny Williams isn't done yet this offseason, but I just wanted to see if anyone else shares this opinion or if I'm just being a little too paranoid.


So you want to be 3 deep at every position? A bit unrealistic don't you think?

As for Bobby, I will say this...outside of Mariano Rivera, no one jumps to mind that I'd consider an obvious upgrade over Bobby.

NeverForget42
12-13-2005, 08:06 PM
he gains above average control of his curveball he can be one of the best closers in baseball, maybe ever, i mean we already know
a. he's got the stuff
b. he's clutch

all he needs is
c. control

Hagan
12-13-2005, 08:10 PM
Jenks has better stuff than shingo had and his stuff is so good. Takatsu couldnt throw strikes and that is why he did so bad last year. Jenks is going to be a very good closer.

OzzyTrain
12-13-2005, 08:30 PM
People are going to get use to his fastball, just like people got use to Shingo slow curve. He needs another out pitch.

zach074
12-13-2005, 08:35 PM
The guy closed out the World Series for us, I don't think i could trust any sox closer in history more than i trust Jenks as of right now.

EndemicSox
12-13-2005, 09:43 PM
No, not yet, he will have to do it for a full season. Nevertheless, he was a beast in the playoffs and hopefully his arm stays healthy. I wouldn't mind seeing the guy lose a little weight either...

oeo
12-13-2005, 10:52 PM
Bobby closed out 2 World Series games, including the World Series clincher...there is no reason for me not to believe in him.

He even said that he did not have his best stuff at all in Game 2, the reason he only featured fastballs. It was a cold, rainy night and he didn't have his best stuff...not everyone can be perfect. Bobby is the man! :redneck

beckett21
12-13-2005, 11:01 PM
The guy closed out the World Series for us, I don't think i could trust any sox closer in history more than i trust Jenks as of right now.

There haven't been too many others with those credentials on their resume, that's for sure. :D:

Hendu
12-13-2005, 11:13 PM
Bobby will be fine. He's a 24-year-old kid who has less than a full season of MLB experience, and he's already closed bigger games than guys like Trevor Hoffman, Jason Isringhausen, Eric Gagne and Lee Smith.

He will learn how to get batters out on the days when his fastball's only clocking 95, and he's not getting his curve over. Luckilly, in case he struggles, Dustin, Politte or Cotts can step in from time to time.

Hendu
12-13-2005, 11:17 PM
Bobby closed out 2 World Series games, including the World Series clincher...there is no reason for me not to believe in him.

He even said that he did not have his best stuff at all in Game 2, the reason he only featured fastballs. It was a cold, rainy night and he didn't have his best stuff...not everyone can be perfect. Bobby is the man! :redneck

Exactly. If he had been able to get that 1 final out in game 2, we'd be calling him "Bobby Jenks, World Series MVP."

WhiteSoxFan84
12-13-2005, 11:21 PM
So you want to be 3 deep at every position? A bit unrealistic don't you think?

As for Bobby, I will say this...outside of Mariano Rivera, no one jumps to mind that I'd consider an obvious upgrade over Bobby.

are you kidding me?? come onnnn. take a sip of the kool-aid but don't hog the jug. want a list of closers i'd take over jenks? here we go...

mariano rivera, francisco rodriguez, b.j. ryan, billy wagner, francisco cordero, chad cordero, brad lidge, joe nathan, jason isringhausen, etc.

FarWestChicago
12-13-2005, 11:28 PM
are you kidding me?? come onnnn. take a sip of the kool-aid but don't hog the jug. want a list of closers i'd take over jenks? here we go...You've just been trolling this whole thread. Next stop ****house... :rolleyes:

Jjav829
12-13-2005, 11:50 PM
are you kidding me?? come onnnn. take a sip of the kool-aid but don't hog the jug. want a list of closers i'd take over jenks? here we go...

mariano rivera, francisco rodriguez, b.j. ryan, billy wagner, francisco cordero, chad cordero, brad lidge, joe nathan, jason isringhausen, etc.

Of course we would all love to have guys like Chad Cordero and Rivera over Jenks. But how many of those guys are truly available and consider the price. Would you rather have B.J. Ryan for 5-years and $47 million over Bobby Jenks for the minimum? I'll take Jenks every day and use that $46 million elsewhere.