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View Full Version : Seattle Protecting Felix Hernandez from WBC


Professor
12-12-2005, 09:42 AM
From rotoworld.com:


WBC officials are expected to uphold the Mariners' objection and prohibit Felix Hernandez from competing in this spring's event, a source with knowledge of the process told the Seattle Post-Intelligencer.
The Mariners don't want to take any chances with the 19-year-old. "Our belief is that he's too young," Mariners president Chuck Armstrong said last week. "With his age, when you're playing for your flag, it creates a lot of adrenaline, a lot of emotion. He just needs to get prepared for this season." Dec. 12 - 4:48 am et
Source: Seattle Post-Intelligencer (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/251667_mari12.html)


This is my major concern with the WBC. I like the idea of promoting baseball and having more games to follow. But since MLB is my primary concern, I worry that players may get injured during the WBC, adversely affecting the MLB season. I think Seattle is smart to do this and I suspect, the first major player to get injured during the tournament will ignite many other teams to follow Seattle's lead ever after.

kittle42
12-12-2005, 11:20 AM
I think Seattle is smart to do this and I suspect, the first major player to get injured during the tournament will ignite many other teams to follow Seattle's lead ever after.

I agree with you 100%.

Baby Fisk
12-12-2005, 11:24 AM
If this tourney survives beyond its inaugural, I predict it will regress into minor leaguers representing their nations as the pros will be held back.

BNLSox
12-12-2005, 01:18 PM
I actually think the tournament will be a success. I think players that end up representing random nations ie the Italian and Netherlands teams will probably not choose to do so in the future but teams like Japan, the Dominican, the US, and Venezuela have deep rosters and the guys will end up seeing as much action as they would miss from their time in ST.

In any case players get hurt playing the game...thats normal. Play will be friendly (for the most part) and I expect effort to be somewhere between the allstar game level and ST level which will be unsharp riskless defense and swing for the fences offense, at least early on.

Perhaps the fans won't love the competitions, but I think the players will get a kick out of this and by the final you'll have some dedicated clubs (especially Japan).

StockdaleForVeep
12-12-2005, 09:58 PM
From rotoworld.com:



This is my major concern with the WBC. I like the idea of promoting baseball and having more games to follow. But since MLB is my primary concern, I worry that players may get injured during the WBC, adversely affecting the MLB season. I think Seattle is smart to do this and I suspect, the first major player to get injured during the tournament will ignite many other teams to follow Seattle's lead ever after.

You dont think that players just sit around all winter relaxing and doing nothing physical do u? Guys play winter ball, guys work out, guys play baseball with friends. Injuries are gonna happen regardless, from playin non professional games to tripping on a treadmill or playing flag football

Exit_Only
12-12-2005, 10:33 PM
You dont think that players just sit around all winter relaxing and doing nothing physical do u? Guys play winter ball, guys work out, guys play baseball with friends. Injuries are gonna happen regardless, from playin non professional games to tripping on a treadmill or playing flag football

If a player doesn't want his team voiding his multi-million dollar contract, most will keep it light.

Professor
12-13-2005, 08:16 AM
You dont think that players just sit around all winter relaxing and doing nothing physical do u? Guys play winter ball, guys work out, guys play baseball with friends. Injuries are gonna happen regardless, from playin non professional games to tripping on a treadmill or playing flag football

Nope. Poor inference, though. Those playing winter ball are frequently those who are not big stars (and hence trying to hone their skills to make it) or, if they are, they don't play it with full-gusto, so to speak. What I do think, however, is that owners investing 20% of their entire payroll on a player, etc., will be none too happy if and when one of these guys is lost for the season while playing in the WBC. Some employers, for example, will allow you to moonlight. But if you come to work dragging everyday or miss a bunch of days of work, guess what...? The wear and tear these players, especially pitchers, get throughout an MLB season coupled with intense tournament play where one will want to play their best for the country and because they'll be on the world's stage, seems to be pointing in a doomed direction. But then again, I am no medical doctor, just an avid baseball fan...

bobowhite
12-13-2005, 08:33 AM
The WBC has fairly stringent rules in place to prevent players from excessive play. Pitchers have quite strict, batter-enforced pitch counts. They will take you out after finishing a batter during the middle of an inninng. Even field players have limits as to how long they can play. These rules are in place in response to the concerns of MLB (primarily.)

I believe somebody will get hurt somewhere, somehow, but I don't think seriously injured. On the other hand, I recall that Robin Ventura suffered a serious injury during a spring training game and missed quite a few games at the start of one season.

Baby Fisk
12-13-2005, 08:36 AM
If a player doesn't want his team voiding his multi-million dollar contract, most will keep it light.
http://llc.fanball.com/fanball/images/story/5075.jpg
"I was the king of New York City. Look at me now!"

gowhitesox
12-13-2005, 09:06 AM
If this becomes a regular event, it is popular with players now but as time goes on players won't want to risk injury. I agree with the Seattle Mariners, I wish more team would do that.

IlliniSox4Life
12-13-2005, 11:24 AM
I think the only reason more teams aren't doing it now is that they don't want to be in the **** house with Selig. This is his "baby", and he's going to be pretty pissed with any team that holds a major star out. Seattle's only doing it because he's young and not an established star yet.

Professor
12-13-2005, 12:09 PM
The WBC has fairly stringent rules in place to prevent players from excessive play. Pitchers have quite strict, batter-enforced pitch counts. They will take you out after finishing a batter during the middle of an inninng. Even field players have limits as to how long they can play. These rules are in place in response to the concerns of MLB (primarily.)

I believe somebody will get hurt somewhere, somehow, but I don't think seriously injured. On the other hand, I recall that Robin Ventura suffered a serious injury during a spring training game and missed quite a few games at the start of one season.

Two points: 1) If they are limiting the players in such a fashion, then will the tournament be a true test of the better team? That seems to contradict the essence of competition. 2) Categorical difference in your Ventura example: Spring Training is part of their job under contract of their MLB team. The WBC is not. Getting hurt in Spring Training is getting hurt on the job that you are paid for--not so with the WBC.

Professor
12-13-2005, 12:09 PM
I think the only reason more teams aren't doing it now is that they don't want to be in the **** house with Selig. This is his "baby", and he's going to be pretty pissed with any team that holds a major star out. Seattle's only doing it because he's young and not an established star yet.

Yes, I think you are correct.

StockdaleForVeep
12-13-2005, 05:45 PM
Nope. Poor inference, though. Those playing winter ball are frequently those who are not big stars (and hence trying to hone their skills to make it) or, if they are, they don't play it with full-gusto, so to speak. What I do think, however, is that owners investing 20% of their entire payroll on a player, etc., will be none too happy if and when one of these guys is lost for the season while playing in the WBC. Some employers, for example, will allow you to moonlight. But if you come to work dragging everyday or miss a bunch of days of work, guess what...? The wear and tear these players, especially pitchers, get throughout an MLB season coupled with intense tournament play where one will want to play their best for the country and because they'll be on the world's stage, seems to be pointing in a doomed direction. But then again, I am no medical doctor, just an avid baseball fan...

Well wasnt this also ok'd by the MLBPA? Im sure the players had a say and they were ok with this

Professor
12-14-2005, 09:38 AM
Well wasnt this also ok'd by the MLBPA? Im sure the players had a say and they were ok with this

:?: Note, the thesis of this argument is not that the players would reject, but the OWNERS/MANAGEMENT would.

Professor
12-14-2005, 09:39 AM
See also:


While the Yankees were believed to be successful at having Randy Johnson, Mike Mussina, Carl Pavano and Jorge Posada removed from WBC consideration, they probably won't be able to prevent Chien-Ming Wang from pitching for Chinese Taipei.
The Yankees have concerns about Wang's shoulder. "The bottom line is if he's healthy enough to participate in spring training and everything that goes along with that, then he should be able to participate in the event," said Wang's agent, Alan Nero. "My feeling is that if he wants to participate I would encourage him to do so. At the same time I understand where the Yankees are coming from. They're trying to protect their asset." The Yankees could always try bribing him not to play. Maybe he can get a three-year deal similar to the one that the Rangers' Chris Young received a year ago. Dec. 14 - 5:11 am et
Source: New York Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/story/374745p-318452c.html)

bobowhite
12-14-2005, 10:16 AM
Two points: 1) If they are limiting the players in such a fashion, then will the tournament be a true test of the better team? That seems to contradict the essence of competition. 2) Categorical difference in your Ventura example: Spring Training is part of their job under contract of their MLB team. The WBC is not. Getting hurt in Spring Training is getting hurt on the job that you are paid for--not so with the WBC.

To answer 1) it may be a fairer test of better team than only playing one second-baseman the whole game. By that I mean, it tests your depth as well as the level of your best player. I actually see this as a huge advantage for the USA. While Mexico, Cuba or Japan may be able to match up at a few positions, if the back-up players aren't as good as our back-ups then we have an advatange.

Case in point. The USA team will feature probably two of the best second basemen in the MLB. If Iguchi, playing for Japan is limited to six innings and then a second rate sub must play then the USA is getting 9 innings and 5-6 at bats of MLB level play at that position. Japan gets 6 innings of MLB and 3 innings and 1-2 at-bats of a AA or AAA player.

To answer 2) I think your 'categorical difference' is specious. That is unless you think that Iguchi is risking serious injury by playing at the Tokyo Dome or at Petco Park as compared to Tuscon Electric. My opinion is that all three fields are of major league standards and the risk of injury is equivalent. The approval of the MLBPAA involves a modification to the contract (CBA) making participation in the WBC equivalent (as per service time/ contractual obligation and pay) as to Spring Training.

DumpJerry
12-14-2005, 05:58 PM
You dont think that players just sit around all winter relaxing and doing nothing physical do u? Guys play winter ball, guys work out, guys play baseball with friends. Injuries are gonna happen regardless, from playin non professional games to tripping on a treadmill or playing flag football
:rowand
Off season injuries? They never happen. Now, where's that dirt bike of mine?

Lip Man 1
12-14-2005, 08:09 PM
By the way it has just come out...no Cuba.

Awwwww....just another dagger into this farce.

Lip

Professor
12-14-2005, 09:22 PM
By the way it has just come out...no Cuba.

Awwwww....just another dagger into this farce.

Lip

Awesome! This way, we can use all the Cuban players on the U.S. team and, hence, demonstrate that we are a deeper team than any other! That is the mark of true champions, unlike the White Sox who used their star players every inning to in their "championship."