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View Full Version : Whos the best owner in team history?


crazyozzie02
12-09-2005, 06:05 PM
I just want to get some peoples opinion on this seeming that i any writing another paper about the White Sox. So if you could vote on the poll and then state why i would appreicate it. Thanks

Colin

gowhitesox
12-09-2005, 06:28 PM
My heart says Bill Veeck because he was the owner of the 1976 team that started my lifetime love affair with the Sox. However my mind says Jerry Reisnsdorf (spelling?) as he put together 4 playoff teams including our 2005 World Champions. Jerry is a proven winner.

The Critic
12-09-2005, 07:12 PM
Ever since late October,

Ozzie = best Sox manager I've ever seen.
Kenny = best Sox GM ever.
JR = best Sox owner ever.
2005 Sox = best Sox team ever.

A World Series win will do that for ya....:D:

vegyrex
12-09-2005, 07:55 PM
Ever since late October,

Ozzie = best Sox manager I've ever seen.
Kenny = best Sox GM ever.
JR = best Sox owner ever.
2005 Sox = best Sox team ever.

A World Series win will do that for ya....:D:

Hard to disagree with any of those choices.

Brian26
12-09-2005, 08:00 PM
Anyone who says Veeck is lying to themselves.

nccwsfan
12-09-2005, 09:07 PM
Reinsdorf ended the 88 year drought- no question he's the best WS owner ever. Veeck was a great showman and brought flair to the team, and Vecek never won a game as owner, so he's automatically eliminated...:tongue:

MrRoboto83
12-09-2005, 09:23 PM
I can't believe I voted for Jerry.:o:

buehrle4cy05
12-09-2005, 09:28 PM
Jerry's good, but Bill Veeck was a marketing genius.

Brian26
12-09-2005, 09:47 PM
Jerry's good, but Bill Veeck was a marketing genius.

Veeck was also a terrible businessman and mediocre judge of baseball talent. He should be applauded for saving the Sox in '76 from moving to Seattle, though.

RedPinStripes
12-09-2005, 10:07 PM
Bill Veeck was a great guy, Comiskey started the organization, but Jerry is the first owner to bring us the WS title since Comiskey and I wasnt there in 1917 .

So as much bitching and bashing I did about JR over the years, all is forgiven. The man brought 7 world titles to this town and is now going after another one with the Sox. I don't know if Jerry really saw something with KW or if he hired him out of favorites, but KW is one bad ass GM and I can't question anything he does now.

Win the world series and right away they go out and improve the team . It's really damn good to be a Sox fan. :bandance::gulp:

ShoelessJoeS
12-09-2005, 10:31 PM
Not only is JR the best Sox owner, he might be the best owner in Chicago sports history.

gowhitesox
12-09-2005, 10:42 PM
Not only is JR the best Sox owner, he might be the best owner in Chicago sports history.

He could very well be the best owner in Chicago sports history. Look at all the championships he won with the Bulls and and now to see him holding the trophy with the White Sox was frosting on the cake to me.

asindc
12-09-2005, 11:13 PM
Veeck was also a terrible businessman and mediocre judge of baseball talent. He should be applauded for saving the Sox in '76 from moving to Seattle, though.

Yes, and contrast that with Jerry threatening to move the team to Tampa, and you have my reasons for voting for Veeck. Never had more fun watching a baseball game anywhere than when Veeck owned the team in the 70s, cash strapped as he was.

gowhitesox
12-09-2005, 11:57 PM
I see your point. I can see Bill Veeck at old Payne Park in Sarasota, Florida yet, he made a ball game fun to watch. That is why my heart says Bill Veeck. But in my mind Jerry R. because of that season of 2005.

To me Chicago is a White Sox town now, and K.W. is trying to keep it that way I am sure.

JorgeFabregas
12-10-2005, 12:08 AM
Comiskey won two world series and he's losing to Veeck? I know he was a cheapskate and all, but...

Baby Fisk
12-10-2005, 12:11 AM
Who brought the White Sox the most World Championships? Charles Comiskey. Come on, people!

ShoelessJoeS
12-10-2005, 12:40 AM
Who brought the White Sox the most World Championships? Charles Comiskey. Come on, people!
I see your point, however, 88 years of futility sways one's judgment.

TheKittle
12-10-2005, 01:59 AM
Considering that many White Sox fan never saw the Old Roman and don't remember him, it's not too hard to see why the Old Roman isn't getting any votes.

Bill Veeck was great for the regular baseball fan. But he was a terrible owner. No money to spend on players or to develop the minor leagues and worse, he allowed Comiskey Park to really go to hell with lack of up keep but almost every White Sox owner is guilty of that.

isu24guy
12-10-2005, 02:09 AM
Ummm let me think...UMMM JR of course. He brought a winner to the South Side during the most competitive eras in baseball history. It kind of makes me wonder how many the Sox could have won during the steriod era if there were no steriods.

TornLabrum
12-10-2005, 07:35 AM
Considering that many White Sox fan never saw the Old Roman and don't remember him, it's not too hard to see why the Old Roman isn't getting any votes.

That plus the fact that Eliot Asinof smeared him in "Eight Men Out."

havelj
12-10-2005, 07:53 AM
Anyone who says Veeck is lying to themselves.

Veeck:

There would be no Chicago White Sox if it wasn't for Veeck (see 1975 and Seattle.)

wassagstdu
12-10-2005, 08:20 AM
The only thing Bill Veeck did for the White Sox was take a pennant winning team with a great stock of young talent and degrade it to the point where some Sox fans consider him a hero for not destroying the team altogether. But hey, he made you think you were going to the circus whenever you went to a Sox game!

Think what it takes to dress a major league baseball team -- or what our standards had been lowered to still consider a major league team -- in uniforms designed to reflect your own "trademark" clothing preference -- and put them in shorts like a bunch of clowns or schoolboys.

Veeck as in Dreck.

Edit: Maybe Dreck is a bit harsh. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Bill Veeck was a fine person with good intentions. He just should not have been allowed within 5 miles (how far is it to Wrigley Field?) of Comiskey Park.

.

Dan H
12-10-2005, 09:13 AM
As a long time Reinsdorf critic, I cannot argue with the success of the 2005 World Chamnpionship. I never thought it would happen under his watch but it did. There is no way I can't give him credit for that. The accomplishment is huge to say the least.

However, the accomplishment was 25 years in the waiting. We had to suffer with Hawk as GM, the very lean years of the late '80's and late '90's, the strike, the White Flag Trade, and some very bad baseball in additions to under-achieving seasons. For years, the team ignored criticism of the new ball park and blamed fans for the team not succeeding.

Jerry Reinsdorf is no slouch by any means, but he has his big downfalls in addition to his successes. He has finally won big with the Sox, and hopefully he has finally turned the franchise around for good. He had it going south for quite some time.

Bill Veeck was a great man, but those late '70's years after the South Side Hitmen were brutal. We need people like him in baseball now. I just wouldn't have him making personnel decisions.

Steelrod
12-10-2005, 09:45 AM
Considering that many White Sox fan never saw the Old Roman and don't remember him, it's not too hard to see why the Old Roman isn't getting any votes.

Bill Veeck was great for the regular baseball fan. But he was a terrible owner. No money to spend on players or to develop the minor leagues and worse, he allowed Comiskey Park to really go to hell with lack of up keep but almost every White Sox owner is guilty of that.
I agree. Bill Veeck was born a Cub fan and died a Cub fan. He headed up partnerships in Cleveland and Chicago because they were for sale. It was what he did for a living, not because he cared for either organization.

Decide for yourself...if you got pissed at Reinsdorf (as many are and were) would you become a Cub fan? I doubt it!

Railsplitter
12-10-2005, 10:31 AM
I voted for OTHER, specifiaclly John Allyn, the forgotten man of Sox ownership. He bought the Sox from his brother Art near the end of the 1969 season. He's the one who hired Roland Hemnd and twice kept the Sox from moving, one in 1970 and again in 1975. The main reason Allyn sold to Veeck was the fact Allyn knew Veeck would keep the Sox in Chicago.

Allyn sacrificed his fortune and possible even his health for the Sox. He died in 1979, and to show how quickly he'd been gorgotten, the Tibune didn't even put the story of his death one page one of the sports section.

TomBradley72
12-10-2005, 10:32 AM
Yes, and contrast that with Jerry threatening to move the team to Tampa, and you have my reasons for voting for Veeck. Never had more fun watching a baseball game anywhere than when Veeck owned the team in the 70s, cash strapped as he was.

Veeck openly discussed moving the White Sox to Denver (I have a copy of the article from the Tribune in the late 70's with direct quotes from Veeck)....I love the man but there's also a certain reality to deal with.

TomBradley72
12-10-2005, 10:36 AM
Who brought the White Sox the most World Championships? Charles Comiskey. Come on, people!

And also 40 years of complete futility (1919-1959).....very few seasons even above .500....

areilly
12-10-2005, 10:52 AM
I agree. Bill Veeck was born a Cub fan and died a Cub fan. He headed up partnerships in Cleveland and Chicago because they were for sale. It was what he did for a living, not because he cared for either organization.

Decide for yourself...if you got pissed at Reinsdorf (as many are and were) would you become a Cub fan? I doubt it!

Don't forget Milwaukee.

Cub fan or not, I always loved these two parts from Veeck As In Wreck:

"We sold 'Beautiful Wrigley Field'...we sold it so well that when I came back to Chicago in 1959 as president of the White Sox, across town, I found 'Beautiful Wrigley Field' my greatest single obstacle. Because 'Beautiful Wrigley Field' tacitly implied 'that run-down, crummy joint on the South Side.'"

And:

"To the White Sox rooter, there is nothing casual or relaxing about baseball. Wake him up in the middle of the night, ask him who he is and he will say 'I am a carpenter and a White Sox fan.' He may or may not have inherited his trade from his father, but the chances are he inherited his rooting interest in the Sox. This kind of family solidarity can only come out of adversity and trial by fire. The White Sox had long ago tested the loyalty of the rooters; the weak and the faint of heart had fallen by the wayside and only the strong, the dedicated and the masochistic remained.

"If there is any justice in the world, to be a White Sox fan freed a man from any other form of pennance."


The man understood...or at least his ghostwriter did! :redneck

Fenway
12-10-2005, 10:56 AM
Veeck openly discussed moving the White Sox to Denver (I have a copy of the article from the Tribune in the late 70's with direct quotes from Veeck)....I love the man but there's also a certain reality to deal with.

If I remember the story correctly, Veeck was setting things up for Charlie Finley to then move the A's to Chicago ( his home town )

but if you want to play that card remember that the White Sox were within seconds of moving to St Petersburg.

Had it not been for a classic political move by Governor Thompson, the stadium bill would have died in Springfield as the clock hit midnight without a vote. Indeed the clock DID pass Midnight but Thompson signed an executive order putting Illinois back on Central STANDARD time until he finally was able to armtwist one more vote for the stadium bill to be passed.

JR may well be the best owner in Chicago history but it's not like climbing Mount Everest. Chicago sports ownership over the years is more like Mount Trashmore in Evanston.

Professor
12-10-2005, 10:58 AM
My initial reaction was to vote Veeck. However, one thing that J.R. did during the run this season swayed my vote in his favor. That he flew all full-time employees out for the games in Anaheim and Houston made me appreciate him as a person and as the owner of the Chicago White Sox. Class act. I am also thankful for the many, many charitable activities that J.R. supports in affiliation with the Chicago White Sox.

TheKittle
12-10-2005, 12:17 PM
I voted for OTHER, specifiaclly John Allyn, the forgotten man of Sox ownership. He bought the Sox from his brother Art near the end of the 1969 season. He's the one who hired Roland Hemnd and twice kept the Sox from moving, one in 1970 and again in 1975. The main reason Allyn sold to Veeck was the fact Allyn knew Veeck would keep the Sox in Chicago.

Allyn sacrificed his fortune and possible even his health for the Sox. He died in 1979, and to show how quickly he'd been gorgotten, the Tibune didn't even put the story of his death one page one of the sports section.

According to the SI article it was Mr Allyn who took the White Sox off WGN and onto a channel 32 where there was always a snowy picture and many fans at that time, late 60's pre cable TV days, couldn't get.

And while an owner shouldn't be judged by one mistake, that's a prettty big mistake.

TornLabrum
12-10-2005, 12:43 PM
According to the SI article it was Mr Allyn who took the White Sox off WGN and onto a channel 32 where there was always a snowy picture and many fans at that time, late 60's pre cable TV days, couldn't get.

And while an owner shouldn't be judged by one mistake, that's a prettty big mistake.

Art Allyn pulled the Sox of WGN. Art Allyn was also the person who played those games in Milwaukee. John Allyn bought the team after that.

Fenway
12-10-2005, 12:51 PM
According to the SI article it was Mr Allyn who took the White Sox off WGN and onto a channel 32 where there was always a snowy picture and many fans at that time, late 60's pre cable TV days, couldn't get.

And while an owner shouldn't be judged by one mistake, that's a prettty big mistake.

I researched this at the Chicago Public Library and found that Allyn had no choice. WGN was going to start televising all home and most road games of the Cubs which would cut down the number of slots open to the White Sox.

Allyn was very friendly with the Marshall Field's people who were putting WFLD on the air and decided to sever ties with WGN completly. Unlike NY and LA, there was no other VHF independent station to go to, it had to be UHF.

When the deal was made, the signal of WFLD was fine on the South Side but by the time April 1968 rolled around it was not. The reason was the John Hancock Tower being built to the Northeast of WFLD's Marina City transmitter. Channel 32's signal was then bouncing off the Hancock and sending back a second signal to the southwest which caused the probelms with ghosts.

Throw in the fact that back then you had to go to Radio Shack to buy a UHF converter and then the 1968 team started 0-10 and it was a disaster.

Channel 32's signal improved when it moved with the other stations in town but by thyen the damage was done.

TheKittle
12-10-2005, 02:09 PM
A quick check of the SI and it was Art Allyn who moved the White Sox to Channel 32.

And as bad luck would have it, the Cubs were actually pretty good in 1968 and 69.

Which brings up another question, what was a worse decision: Art Allyn switching to Channel 32 or Eddie Einhorn putting games on Sports Channel?

TomBradley72
12-10-2005, 02:36 PM
If I remember the story correctly, Veeck was setting things up for Charlie Finley to then move the A's to Chicago ( his home town )

but if you want to play that card remember that the White Sox were within seconds of moving to St Petersburg.

Had it not been for a classic political move by Governor Thompson, the stadium bill would have died in Springfield as the clock hit midnight without a vote. Indeed the clock DID pass Midnight but Thompson signed an executive order putting Illinois back on Central STANDARD time until he finally was able to armtwist one more vote for the stadium bill to be passed.

JR may well be the best owner in Chicago history but it's not like climbing Mount Everest. Chicago sports ownership over the years is more like Mount Trashmore in Evanston.

My point wasn't that Reinsdorf is a saint....my point was that Veeck was far from perfect as well. My personal opinion is that Veeck was a great man (war veteran, entrepeneur, non-conformist, innovative)....but Reinsdorf was the better "owner" of the White Sox.

World Championships in Chicago since Reinsdorf acquired the White Sox in 1981:

Chicago Bears-1985
Chicago Blackhawks- None
Chicago Cubs- None
Chicago White Sox- 2005
Chicago Bulls- 1991, 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 1998

Steelrod
12-10-2005, 03:48 PM
A quick check of the SI and it was Art Allyn who moved the White Sox to Channel 32.

And as bad luck would have it, the Cubs were actually pretty good in 1968 and 69.

Which brings up another question, what was a worse decision: Art Allyn switching to Channel 32 or Eddie Einhorn putting games on Sports Channel?
SportsVision, Sports Channel was later.

whitesoxfan1986
12-10-2005, 05:45 PM
Not only is JR the best Sox owner, he might be the best owner in Chicago sports history.

Not only do I agree, there is no argument for anyone else. He brought 6 championships to the Bulls, and 1 to the Sox.

I don't know how many NFL championships that Halas brought from the Bears, but that wasn't in the modern era of football, so that doesn't really count. Other than JR, the only other championship brought to the city in the modern era of any sport was the 1985 Bears.

TheKittle
12-10-2005, 06:06 PM
Not only do I agree, there is no argument for anyone else. He brought 6 championships to the Bulls, and 1 to the Sox.

I don't know how many NFL championships that Halas brought from the Bears, but that wasn't in the modern era of football, so that doesn't really count. Other than JR, the only other championship brought to the city in the modern era of any sport was the 1985 Bears.

What kind of thinking is that. Just because it wasn't in the "modern era" of football the Bears championships shouldn't count? And since they don't count, Bronko, Sayers, Butkus, Ditka, etc don't count as HOF since they didn't play in the modern era.

Hey since the White Sox won the 1917 WS, that shouldn't count since it's not the modern era for baseball.

What's the modern era to you? 1980 on?

IlliniSox4Life
12-10-2005, 06:16 PM
Not only do I agree, there is no argument for anyone else. He brought 6 championships to the Bulls, and 1 to the Sox.

I don't know how many NFL championships that Halas brought from the Bears, but that wasn't in the modern era of football, so that doesn't really count. Other than JR, the only other championship brought to the city in the modern era of any sport was the 1985 Bears.

Halas won 8 NFL Championships as a coach and/or owner. George Halas was BY FAR the greatest owner in Chicago sports history. Not only did he own the team, he founded the league, played for the team, and coached the team. He revolutionized the league with the T-formation, and set a career wins record that wasn't broken until 1993. Halas basically made the NFL into a great league. He shared television revenue with smaller franchises willingly because it benefitted the league as a whole. In 40 years as the Bears coach, he had only six losing seasons. He also has a career .682 winning percentage. The Sox didn't even have that this year.

As good as Jerry has been, I don't see the White Sox putting the initials "JR" on their jerseys any time soon.

I like Jerry as a owner, and he's certainly been good to the Sox, but there is no question who the best owner in Chicago sports history is.

Brian26
12-10-2005, 06:23 PM
Had it not been for a classic political move by Governor Thompson, the stadium bill would have died in Springfield as the clock hit midnight without a vote. Indeed the clock DID pass Midnight but Thompson signed an executive order putting Illinois back on Central STANDARD time until he finally was able to armtwist one more vote for the stadium bill to be passed.


Big Jim is a class act all the way.

doublem23
12-10-2005, 06:35 PM
Charles Comiskey, hands down.

BV2005
12-11-2005, 04:14 AM
yea comiskey started the white sox, though he wasn' the coolest owner, he was a lot like halas in the way that he didn't take no bull with his players, he was the greatest white sox owner, I dont see JR (as good as an owner he is)getting a feild named after him.

kevin57
12-11-2005, 08:08 AM
I had to vote other...as in Allyn. All had their (+) and (-) but when Sox fortunes were low...very, very low...the team was saved for Chicago by him.

voodoochile
12-11-2005, 10:07 AM
JR ended the second longest championship drought in professional sports history. He has shown a commitment to winning even if not in the manner most of us would choose. He may have been early with his move to cable TV, but in the end, he was correct - cable was the wave of the future (and it did come very late to Chicago).

I think he gets a bit of an extra bump for the Bulls championships too.

TomBradley72
12-11-2005, 11:03 AM
I dont see JR (as good as an owner he is)getting a feild named after him.

The field wasn't named AFTER him....it was named BY him.

Was he really that great? Over a 30 year period (1920-1950)....the WSox had about 24 losing seasons...I respect his role in founding the AL and the franchise....but finishing in the "1st Division" only 6 times over 30 years...never higher than 3rd...is a pretty poor record.

DumpJerry
12-11-2005, 11:50 AM
Voting for Comiskey is like the chicken voting for the Colonel. You don't need to see "Eight Men Out" to know why.

Fenway
12-11-2005, 12:50 PM
Big Jim is a class act all the way.

Say what you want but Big Jim is the reason the White Sox are still on 35th Street.

The White Sox biggest mistake with SportsVision was dumping it for cheap money to Charles Dolan who then merged it into his SportsChannel empire. Had the White Sox kept control they would be sitting pretty today.

Speaking of Dolan. He then joined forces with Ruppert Murdoch and SportsChannel became FSN. I find it *interesting* that the Indians which are owned by Dolan's brother are now leaving FSN Ohio.

Bucky F. Dent
12-11-2005, 01:49 PM
As has been mentioned before, I loved Veeck, but you gotta give it to Jerry.

TheKittle
12-11-2005, 03:29 PM
Say what you want but Big Jim is the reason the White Sox are still on 35th Street.

The White Sox biggest mistake with SportsVision was dumping it for cheap money to Charles Dolan who then merged it into his SportsChannel empire. Had the White Sox kept control they would be sitting pretty today.

Speaking of Dolan. He then joined forces with Ruppert Murdoch and SportsChannel became FSN. I find it *interesting* that the Indians which are owned by Dolan's brother are now leaving FSN Ohio.

Wasn't there an article about Sports Vision-Sports Channel by Hal? on WSI?

TDog
12-11-2005, 04:10 PM
The owners played by different rules with different resources. When Comiskey essentially founded the White Sox, there was no amateur draft and no minor league system. Had the Sox found Ty Cobb instead of the Tigers, he would they could have signed him, and the reserve clause would have bound him to the Sox for life. Often players were sold and traded for less expensive players to make up for the team's financial losses or the owners' deficit personal interests. The team Comiskey's descendants built by the early '50s, after he was dead, involved strong scouting, shrewd trades and a farm system. Bill Veeck inherited it and did some things to dismantle it before the 1960 season and sold it to Arthur Allyn who traded well scouted prospects until there was little for the team to call up. The amateur draft was introduced in 1965. Of course, when John Allyn eventually returned control of the Sox to Veeck, free agency changed the game again. Except for 1977, the baseball was miserable during second Veeck reign. The Reinsdorf group did far better and treated players with greater respect, despite some down years.

Comiskey won two championships, Reinsdorf one. After 1920, Comiskey didn't have a competitive team. It didn't take him a few years to rebuild the scandal-gutted team. It took his family three decades. Connie Mack (not unlike the current Marlins) dismantled great teams and managed to rebuild them (so he could sell off the players again).

After winning championships, there was an obvious difference between the feeling Comiskey's players showed for him and the feeling Reinsdorf players showed for him.

Maybe that says it all.

Sox-on-TV44
12-12-2005, 11:35 AM
It was a tough one between two.

Bill Veeck was a showman,and made being a Sox fan real fun.

But I got to say Jerry Reinsdorf.How could anoyone argue with 4 playoff teams and a World Champion being put together?Along with 6 NBA titles as well,IN THE SAME CITY!!!!!

miker
12-12-2005, 11:57 AM
It's like comparing apples to oranges. I like TDog's analysis and I voted (even after all we've been through) for JR.

tacosalbarojas
12-12-2005, 12:24 PM
It's like comparing apples to oranges. I like TDog's analysis and I voted (even after all we've been through) for JR.I say it's more like voting for the tallest midget. All our owners have had their plusses and minuses and no one has exactly cornered the market on world series titles. Although, Jerry, your time isn't up yet so you have room to paint on a relatively blank canvas up there on our flagpoles.

woodenleg
12-12-2005, 01:09 PM
Bill Veeck was a great guy, Comiskey started the organization, but Jerry is the first owner to bring us the WS title since Comiskey and I wasnt there in 1917 .

So as much bitching and bashing I did about JR over the years, all is forgiven. The man brought 7 world titles to this town and is now going after another one with the Sox. I don't know if Jerry really saw something with KW or if he hired him out of favorites, but KW is one bad ass GM and I can't question anything he does now.

Win the world series and right away they go out and improve the team . It's really damn good to be a Sox fan. :bandance::gulp:

I agree...I knew he was gonna bring us the trophy. It just takes time....SEE?!?

tebman
12-12-2005, 01:30 PM
I don't think the Sox' owners can be compared in a meaningful way. Comiskey started the team and was a tough-as-nails business guy, but that was the environment they all lived in at the time. Veeck was a mediocre baseball guy, but made the games one hell of a lot of fun. The Allyns were short-vision owners living in short-vision times. JR and his partners are corporate types living in corporate times.

So I dunno -- to me it's like asking what's the best car ever made. There are just too many variables to make it a simple choice.

Steelrod
12-12-2005, 01:46 PM
I don't think the Sox' owners can be compared in a meaningful way. Comiskey started the team and was a tough-as-nails business guy, but that was the environment they all lived in at the time. Veeck was a mediocre baseball guy, but made the games one hell of a lot of fun. The Allyns were short-vision owners living in short-vision times. JR and his partners are corporate types living in corporate times.

So I dunno -- to me it's like asking what's the best car ever made. There are just too many variables to make it a simple choice.

JR and 57 Chevy!