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View Full Version : Interesting cub bashing going on.


veeter
12-09-2005, 11:20 AM
Trib. sports sections like today don't come around very often. On the heels of yesterday's disgusting cub propaganda, today's Rogers headline reads like this: Continuing to build on a championship. The Sox plotting for another title run; the Cubs just plodding. The article went on to praise the Mackowiak move. It also criticized the cubs for their many holes. And specifically called out their lack of ability to promote from within. Also, Steve Stone's last two visits on the Score have been scathing to the cubs. Albeit a year late, he's been very critical of McPhail, and slowly, Hendry. Could we be seeing a shift? I know I'm loving every minute of it.

TDog
12-09-2005, 11:28 AM
I read that last night on the Knight-Ridder wire. Most interesting was the assertion that the difference between the Cubs' and Sox's moves this offseason -- as well as the difference between the teams themselves -- was style vs. substance.

Dan Mega
12-09-2005, 11:28 AM
Just wait until the Cubs get their first 3 game winning streak and the Sox get a 3 game losing streak. Things will return to normal.

Vernam
12-09-2005, 11:28 AM
Trib. sports sections like today don't come around very often. On the heels of yesterday's disgusting cub propaganda, today's Rogers headline reads like this: Continuing to build on a championship. The Sox plotting for another title run; the Cubs just plodding. The article went on to praise the Mackowiak move. It also criticized the cubs for their many holes. And specifically called out their lack of ability to promote from within. Also, Steve Stone's last two visits on the Score have been scathing to the cubs. Albeit a year late, he's been very critical of McPhail, and slowly, Hendry. Could we be seeing a shift? I know I'm loving every minute of it.All the bouquets thrown to Phil lately on WSI are no doubt having their effect.

I doubt that Hendry and Baker will be around this time next year, but I must admit it's odd to read such criticism of them in the Trib. I wouldn't get too used to it, but you never know . . .

Case in point: News that someone had lifted the Collyer's magazines from 1920 was front-page news, and the news that the magazines had been returned was on page 3 of the second section.:cool:

Vernam

Fenway
12-09-2005, 11:31 AM
Even Colonel McCormick himself would be unable to put a great postive spin on the Cubs. They finish 4th in a weak division and the team 8.2 miles south are the World Champions.

The Cubs and their fans could ignore the White Sox if they chose because the White Sox were not a threat to them.

That has changed.

More and more people who were turned off by the new Comiskey returned this year to see the changes and the team and liked what they saw and are buying tickets.

The Tribune can not ignore the White Sox anymore and they must fix the Cubs. But they don't have a clue how to do that.

veeter
12-09-2005, 11:40 AM
I guess I'm just happy with anything negative about the cubs.

tebman
12-09-2005, 11:46 AM
Trib. sports sections like today don't come around very often. On the heels of yesterday's disgusting cub propaganda, today's Rogers headline reads like this: Continuing to build on a championship. The Sox plotting for another title run; the Cubs just plodding. The article went on to praise the Mackowiak move. It also criticized the cubs for their many holes. And specifically called out their lack of ability to promote from within. Also, Steve Stone's last two visits on the Score have been scathing to the cubs. Albeit a year late, he's been very critical of McPhail, and slowly, Hendry. Could we be seeing a shift? I know I'm loving every minute of it.
Interesting. As easy as it is to take shots at the Tribune for all its self-importance, I never thought that the individual writers had a set of talking points given to them by their corporate officers, but rather that a circle-the-wagons mindset exists over there that works to reflexively protect their own interests. That includes the Cubs, of course, but also WGN radio & TV, CLTV, Col. McCormick's ghost, and all the rest. George Knue is never shy about telling us how delusional we are when we bring this up.

But especially after this year, the fact of the Sox' superiority over the Cubs simply can't be ignored. Phil Rogers is a responsible sportswriter and tells the truth, and no amount of editorial drawbridge-raising can cover for it. When the Sox are bad and make mistakes, the story should be told, and when the Sox are championship-good and avoid mistakes, that story must be told too.

As Sox fans, we value straight talk above boosterism. That's what's so hard to understand for those who harp on superficialities like attendance, and what a good observer and writer like Phil Rogers can clearly see.

Flight #24
12-09-2005, 11:52 AM
IMO this whole shift indicates 2 things:

1) Dusty Baker is gone after this year, barring a postseason berth/win. I don't buy the "moment of realization", much more likely IMO that Tribco decided Baker's the scapegoat, so the gloves are off.

2) Hendry's not far behind. He may be a year away if they put it all on Dusty, but he hasn't leveraged his budget into wins.

Trib's circling the wagons, stacking the bonfires, and getting ready for a season in which they can burn these 2 at the stake, then go get some new clowns, generate excitement, and keep the turnstiles turning.

It's Time
12-09-2005, 12:04 PM
Phil ends the article by saying the Cubs are all "flash" and the White Sox are all "substance".

WS champions and substance.
4th place and flash.

Easy choice.

slavko
12-09-2005, 12:04 PM
IMO this whole shift indicates 2 things:

1) Dusty Baker is gone after this year, barring a postseason berth/win. I don't buy the "moment of realization", much more likely IMO that Tribco decided Baker's the scapegoat, so the gloves are off.

2) Hendry's not far behind. He may be a year away if they put it all on Dusty, but he hasn't leveraged his budget into wins.

Trib's circling the wagons, stacking the bonfires, and getting ready for a season in which they can burn these 2 at the stake, then go get some new clowns, generate excitement, and keep the turnstiles turning.

You are correct, sir. The Phil Rogers article was a "purpose piece" to that possible outcome.

Lip Man 1
12-09-2005, 12:14 PM
Here's the link:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-051209rogers,1,2793001.column?coll=cs-columnists

Lip

miker
12-09-2005, 02:27 PM
Phil ends the article by saying the Cubs are all "flash" and the White Sox are all "substance".

WS champions and substance.
4th place and flash.

Easy choice.
Explain that to the sell-out crowds of sheep that will be populating the Urinal 81 times next year...

...on second thought, don't explain it. I'll just sit back and enjoy a White Sox World Championship!

Ol' No. 2
12-09-2005, 02:38 PM
Explain that to the sell-out crowds of sheep that will be populating the Urinal 81 times next year...

...on second thought, don't explain it. I'll just sit back and enjoy a White Sox World Championship!Don't be too sure. Naturally there will still be lots of sheep at Wrigley, but if the Sox put together a string of good seasons, there could be a sea change coming. When both teams hadn't won anything in anyone's memory, it was easy to promote the lovable losers. Now that the Sox have won a World Series, losing is no longer lovable.

Winning >>>>> ivy

tebman
12-09-2005, 02:52 PM
Winning >>>>> ivy

:thumbsup:

Iwritecode
12-09-2005, 03:14 PM
The Tribune can not ignore the White Sox anymore and they must fix the Cubs. But they don't have a clue how to do that.

Now that the Sox have won a World Series, losing is no longer lovable.

I love these two quotes. :D:

Fenway
12-09-2005, 03:19 PM
Explain that to the sell-out crowds of sheep that will be populating the Urinal 81 times next year...

...on second thought, don't explain it. I'll just sit back and enjoy a White Sox World Championship!

The Cubs are going to get the fans from Iowa, downstate Illinois, Western Michigan etc. They come for a weekend in the big city and see baseball. That was a market the White Sox never cultivated.

If you just look at Cook and the collar counties, the White Sox do fine...

Corlose 15
12-09-2005, 03:40 PM
The Cubs are going to get the fans from Iowa, downstate Illinois, Western Michigan etc. They come for a weekend in the big city and see baseball. That was a market the White Sox never cultivated.

If you just look at Cook and the collar counties, the White Sox do fine...

I'm doing my best to promote the Sox in West Michigan. I'll be wearing my Division, League, and World championship shirts around quite a bit.:D:

C-Dawg
12-09-2005, 07:11 PM
Trib's circling the wagons, stacking the bonfires, and getting ready for a season in which they can burn these 2 at the stake, then go get some new clowns, generate excitement, and keep the turnstiles turning.

I can see the new advertising slogan right now: The Chicago Cubs - Different Clowns, Same Circus.

Realist
12-09-2005, 08:20 PM
Here's the link:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-051209rogers,1,2793001.column?coll=cs-columnists

Lip

Wow. That article looks like it could have been written by a member of WSI. Oh wait... it was. :smile:

From a Sox fan point of view, I love the way Hendry has been running the Cubs. I hope he keeps his job for another 15 years.

TheDarkGundam
12-09-2005, 08:38 PM
I can see the new advertising slogan right now: The Chicago Cubs - Different Clowns, Same Circus.

Nice! :cool:

rdivaldi
12-09-2005, 09:14 PM
When both teams hadn't won anything in anyone's memory, it was easy to promote the lovable losers. Now that the Sox have won a World Series, losing is no longer lovable.

Excellent quote...

MadetoOrta
12-09-2005, 10:44 PM
Don't be too sure. Naturally there will still be lots of sheep at Wrigley, but if the Sox put together a string of good seasons, there could be a sea change coming. When both teams hadn't won anything in anyone's memory, it was easy to promote the lovable losers. Now that the Sox have won a World Series, losing is no longer lovable.

Winning >>>>> ivy

Absolutely on point. I made a similar assertion after the World Series. Everyone wants to be associated with a WINNER not a LOSER. The only problem is this means more bandwagon yuppies at the Cell. Comes with the territory. You're totally on point that after the World Series win, all bets are off.

adidas773
12-10-2005, 10:16 AM
lol, thats some good stuff right there.



I can see the new advertising slogan right now: The Chicago Cubs - Different Clowns, Same Circus.

LongLiveFisk
12-10-2005, 10:32 AM
I can see the new advertising slogan right now: The Chicago Cubs - Different Clowns, Same Circus.

LOL..I like it, although I would reverse it, to
"Same Circus, Different Clowns" (akin to "Same ****, Different Day"). :wink:

bigfoot
12-10-2005, 10:40 AM
I can see the new advertising slogan right now: The Chicago Cubs - Different Clowns, Same Circus.

Alternate Slogan...


Chicago Cubs
Come See the Tent,
Be Scared By the Clowns

http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:sltMos-AK5QJ:www.newcriminologist.co.uk/uploads/John_Wayne_Gacy.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.newcriminologist.co.uk/uploads/John_Wayne_Gacy.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.newcriminologist.co.uk/news.asp%3Fid%3D1115887944&h=186&w=144&sz=21&tbnid=sltMos-AK5QJ:&tbnh=97&tbnw=75&hl=en&start=5&prev=/images%3Fq%3Djohn%2BGacy%2Bclown%26svnum%3D10%26hl %3Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG)

Ol' No. 2
12-10-2005, 12:13 PM
The Cubs are going to get the fans from Iowa, downstate Illinois, Western Michigan etc. They come for a weekend in the big city and see baseball. That was a market the White Sox never cultivated.

If you just look at Cook and the collar counties, the White Sox do fine...But a lot of those fans from Iowa are now going to prefer to see the defending World Series Champions (I never get tired of seeing that:smile:) instead of Wrigley Field, especially if they've been to Wrigley before. And when they do they're going to discover that it's a much better overall experience.

Let's face it, there are lots of other parks with upper decks just as steep. There are lots of other parks with blue seats. There are lots of other parks in REALLY bad neighborhoods. Most of those teams have no problem drawing. It will probably take more than one great season, but if the Sox put together several good years, suddenly no one will care about the steepness of the upper deck or any of that other crap.

SOXSINCE'70
12-10-2005, 12:26 PM
losing is no longer lovable.

I've only been a Sox fan since 1970 (hence my board name),
but in this Sox fan's world,losing has NEVER been lovable.
I imagine most Sox fans feel the same way.

TomBradley72
12-10-2005, 02:43 PM
But a lot of those fans from Iowa are now going to prefer to see the defending World Series Champions (I never get tired of seeing that:smile:) instead of Wrigley Field, especially if they've been to Wrigley before. And when they do they're going to discover that it's a much better overall experience.


Very valid point....the White Sox needed a "hook" to attract the casual and/or tourist fan....people will want to see the World Series Champions, see the place where Iguchi hit the HR to beat the BoSox, where Pierzynski went to 1st on the dropped 3rd strike, where Paulie hit the grand slam, where Pods hit the homer in rain to win Game 2....I wouldn't say the whole dynamic has changed...but I think you'll see a nice shift in 2006.

Hitmen77
12-10-2005, 03:28 PM
But a lot of those fans from Iowa are now going to prefer to see the defending World Series Champions (I never get tired of seeing that:smile:) instead of Wrigley Field, especially if they've been to Wrigley before. And when they do they're going to discover that it's a much better overall experience.

Let's face it, there are lots of other parks with upper decks just as steep. There are lots of other parks with blue seats. There are lots of other parks in REALLY bad neighborhoods. Most of those teams have no problem drawing. It will probably take more than one great season, but if the Sox put together several good years, suddenly no one will care about the steepness of the upper deck or any of that other crap.

Nice thing is that, once people come to the Cell because they want to see the WORLD CHAMPS, they'll realize that it's not a terrible ballpark and is not in a dangerous neighborhood. Most of these people will have not been to the Cell post-renovations and will be in for a pleasant surprise at how nice the place looks with the renovated upper deck, green seats, fan deck, Fundamentals for their kids, etc.

The "projects" east of the park are all but gone. Especially for people who come in from west of the ballpark, they'll see that there is a healthy city neighborhood there.

AnkleSox
12-10-2005, 05:44 PM
But a lot of those fans from Iowa are now going to prefer to see the defending World Series Champions (I never get tired of seeing that:smile:) instead of Wrigley Field, especially if they've been to Wrigley before. And when they do they're going to discover that it's a much better overall experience.

Let's face it, there are lots of other parks with upper decks just as steep. There are lots of other parks with blue seats. There are lots of other parks in REALLY bad neighborhoods. Most of those teams have no problem drawing. It will probably take more than one great season, but if the Sox put together several good years, suddenly no one will care about the steepness of the upper deck or any of that other crap.

This is probably true, but don't forget that Iowa has the Cubs' AAA team, so a lot of Iowans have an actual rooting interest in the Cubs. However their trip to Chicago may also include them seeing the White Sox, as it seems Iowan Cub fans don't hate the Sox as much as Chicagoan Cub fans (which has a lot to do with the fact that they don't live in the same city, so they probably don't get as much of a sense of the rivalry.)

So its very likely that many people will visit both stadiums, Wrigley in the day because many Iowans were raised unfortunately going to AAA Cubs games (funny that they come to Chicago to see the AAA Cubs when they have them right there :smile: ), and then possibly visit the Cell for a night game because of the appeal of watching the World Champs.

It's very possible many of these people will choose a new team to root for.

Malgar 12
12-11-2005, 03:03 PM
I'm doing my best to promote the Sox in West Michigan. I'll be wearing my Division, League, and World championship shirts around quite a bit.:D: Not for long, they're about to be repossessed by your brother. (whom you haven't paid back yet!)