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View Full Version : Which off-season move will come back to bite us?


Fuller_Schettman
12-08-2005, 08:30 PM
Well, it would seem that our Christmas list is all but complete- and TWO WEEKS EARLY, I might add! KW has done a fabulous job re-tooling, but I am sure that some folks out there are nervous about some of our moves or non-moves. So which of the off-season moves makes you (most) nervous?

veeter
12-08-2005, 08:32 PM
Those two stud pitching prospects that are now Phillies, make me nervous.

BV2005
12-08-2005, 08:36 PM
rowand might become one of the elite outfeilders in the futer, so that has the best chance of biting us in the rear in the futer.

ChiSoxIn06
12-08-2005, 08:37 PM
i still think we should trade Garland and sign Washburn.

delben91
12-08-2005, 08:38 PM
All the trades have risks. But after he assembled a world champion last offseason, I'm giving Kenny the benefit of the doubt here.

RKMeibalane
12-08-2005, 08:40 PM
I'm going to wait until the season starts before I think about this any further.

Palehose13
12-08-2005, 08:43 PM
rowand might become one of the elite outfeilders in the futer, so that has the best chance of biting us in the rear in the futer.

I can't wait til r-kit42 reads this one!

In regards to the poll, if Frank signs somwhere else (as opposed to retiring) I think the big man will be on a mission.

Fuller_Schettman
12-08-2005, 08:44 PM
I can't wait til r-kit42 reads this one!

In regards to the poll, if Frank signs somwhere else (as opposed to retiring) I think the big man will be on a mission.

No doubt!! So maybe we should hope Oakland then? If they are gonna own us anyway, might as well see Frank light it up, eh?

MarySwiss
12-08-2005, 08:47 PM
I love Aaron and Frank, but so far, I consider Kenny's offseason moves masterful.

Which is kinda scary since I wasn't real crazy about some of his offseason moves last season--at least initially. I was sorry to see Carlos and Jose and Maggs leave. Until I thought about Pods, and AJ, and Gooch, and El Duque.

In Kenny I Trust!

Daver
12-08-2005, 08:48 PM
Those two stud pitching prospects that are now Phillies, make me nervous.

A pitching prospect becomes a stud when he makes the forty man roster, till then, he is just another prospect. Pitchers are a huge crapshoot anyway.

See Rauch, Jon.

TheVulture
12-08-2005, 08:48 PM
The Thome deal obviously has the biggest risk of exploding in KW's face. Worst case scenerio Thome struggles with his bad back for 3 years, sox OF prospects struggle to hit above .200, Rowand reverts to 2004 form at the plate, Big Hurt comes back and has a couple more strong years and Gonzalez or Haigwood or both establish themselves as quality major league pitchers.

RKMeibalane
12-08-2005, 08:51 PM
A pitching prospect becomes a stud when he makes the forty man roster, till then, he is just another prospect. Pitchers are a huge crapshoot anyway.

See Rauch, Jon.

Or Taylor, Brien.

SoxyStu
12-08-2005, 09:00 PM
Bite us when? This year?

Jjav829
12-08-2005, 09:09 PM
I went with they are all gold, but I do think it's possible that we could look back on this offseason in the future and say we should have sold high on Garland. Then again, I still think it's possible Kenny might try to move Garland if he doesn't think Garland will be worth what he will get as a free agent next year.

Garland and Uribe for Tejada. :tongue:

Chisox003
12-08-2005, 09:13 PM
The Thome deal obviously has the biggest risk of exploding in KW's face. Worst case scenerio Thome struggles with his bad back for 3 years, sox OF prospects struggle to hit above .200, Rowand reverts to 2004 form at the plate, Big Hurt comes back and has a couple more strong years and Gonzalez or Haigwood or both establish themselves as quality major league pitchers.
Wow....worst case scenario?

That'd be a living hell :o:

Fuller_Schettman
12-08-2005, 09:15 PM
Wow....worst case scenario?

That'd be a living hell :o:

LOL! Indeed. Talk about Nuclear Nightmare Diplomacy!!

veeter
12-08-2005, 11:05 PM
A pitching prospect becomes a stud when he makes the forty man roster, till then, he is just another prospect. Pitchers are a huge crapshoot anyway.

See Rauch, Jon. Haigwood was just added to the 40 man right before the trade. So I guess he WAS a stud.

ChiSoxRowand
12-09-2005, 12:58 AM
Or Taylor, Brien.

or Wells, Kip or Wright, Danny

miker
12-09-2005, 09:04 AM
Does this mean some of us are already conceding defeat next year?:o:

soxfan26
12-09-2005, 09:08 AM
Does this mean some of us are already conceding defeat next year?:o:

Disaster is always around the corner just ask the...

:darkclouds:

BeviBall!
12-09-2005, 09:09 AM
The moves KW made give us a great chance to repeat. We need to make the playoffs next year... it'd be a bitter pill to swallow not getting in after winning the WS.

wdelaney72
12-09-2005, 09:49 AM
I know you gave Kenny his props in the original post of the thread, but still...

:threadsucks

Kenny has taken a WS Championship team and on paper made it look even better.

Baby Fisk
12-09-2005, 10:03 AM
It may not come back to bite the Sox, but it's going to be a horrible feeling seeing Frank Thomas step up to the plate wearing someone else's uniform next season. Horrible, horrible feeling. :(:

RallyBowl
12-09-2005, 10:12 AM
To the thread starter, nice Banya reference. I agree, they're all gold!


IN KENNY WE TRUST.

kevin57
12-09-2005, 10:22 AM
I have to say that I think KW has made all the right moves so far.

Any trade / no offer of arbitration / etc. carries a risk. This stuff is not like physics where precision is meant to be absolute. Any and all of KW's moves could come back to bite us in the butt. But on paper, you gotta at least concede that Kenny has not made any foolhardy moves.

Iguana775
12-09-2005, 10:29 AM
Bad moves? I dont see no stinking bad moves!

:cool:

Bobbo35
12-09-2005, 12:57 PM
Disaster is always around the corner just ask the...

:darkclouds:


UH OHHHHHH!!! The cursed dark cloud crew!!! Give me a break.

Hangar18
12-09-2005, 01:04 PM
Getting rid of the Blue Seats .........

Hangar18
12-09-2005, 01:06 PM
But seriously, Trading Haigwood wasnt smart. The Phillies WANTED to part with Thome badly. Hendry wouldve traded Jose Macias and a minor leaguer named Elmo and Buster for Thome

Frater Perdurabo
12-09-2005, 01:09 PM
But seriously, Trading Haigwood wasnt smart. The Phillies WANTED to part with Thome badly. Hendry wouldve traded Jose Macias and a minor leaguer named Elmo and Buster for Thome

Maybe, but where would Thome have played on the Cubs? Shortstop? What would they do with Derrek Lee?

As another poster pointed out in another thread, Hendry gets flashy players for cheap in trades, and those players put up gaudy individual stats but the team finishes in fourth.

Kenny may overpay, but he gets the right players for the Sox. And the Sox won the World Series and are poised to repeat.

:supernana:

TheOldRoman
12-09-2005, 01:10 PM
But seriously, Trading Haigwood wasnt smart. The Phillies WANTED to part with Thome badly. Hendry wouldve traded Jose Macias and a minor leaguer named Elmo and Buster for Thome
:rolleyes:
You are right. Screw prospects. Hendry would have gotten them to take Dye. World Series MVPs are a dime a dozen. I would much rather have a prospect with a less than 50% chance of becoming a regular major leaguer than one of the best RF in baseball.

Hangar18
12-09-2005, 01:13 PM
As another poster pointed out in another thread, Hendry gets flashy players for cheap in trades, and those players put up gaudy individual stats but the team finishes in fourth.

Kenny may overpay, but he gets the right players for the Sox. And the Sox won the World Series and are poised to repeat.



Good point. But I insist Kenny didnt have to part with top prospects. Philly wanted to dump Thome. Kenny is the guy who sees a Car priced at $25,000 and insists on paying $35,000 for it.
That said, his Marte for Mackowiak was very Hendry-esque. Good trade

Flight #24
12-09-2005, 01:14 PM
Good point. But I insist Kenny didnt have to part with top prospects. Philly wanted to dump Thome. Kenny is the guy who sees a Car priced at $25,000 and insists on paying $35,000 for it.
That said, his Marte for Mackowiak was very Hendry-esque. Good trade

Yes, Kenny should try to be like Hendry, you know - the guy who's taken that huge budget and won all those.....games against the Brewers?:rolleyes:

Fuller_Schettman
12-09-2005, 01:15 PM
I have to say that I think KW has made all the right moves so far.

Any trade / no offer of arbitration / etc. carries a risk. This stuff is not like physics where precision is meant to be absolute. Any and all of KW's moves could come back to bite us in the butt. But on paper, you gotta at least concede that Kenny has not made any foolhardy moves.

That has got to be a bumper sticker!

:KW

Kenny Williams: No Foolhardy Moves!

TheOldRoman
12-09-2005, 01:16 PM
Good point. But I insist Kenny didnt have to part with top prospects. Philly wanted to dump Thome. Kenny is the guy who sees a Car priced at $25,000 and insists on paying $35,000 for it.
That said, his Marte for Mackowiak was very Hendry-esque. Good trade
No, it wasn't Hendry-esque because Hendry-esque is crappy.
Do you realize that we got one of the premiere sluggers in the game AND the Phillies ate half his salary? I know you would have rather the Sox paid the full contract and kept the prospects because in your insane fantasy world the Sox should have a payroll of $150 million and anything less is cheap and stupid.

voodoochile
12-09-2005, 01:17 PM
I'm very sad to see Frank leave, but I understand why it happened.

It's the only move so far that has the potential to hurt us this coming season, IMO.

Ol' No. 2
12-09-2005, 01:21 PM
How come non-tendering Timo isn't listed?

Hangar18
12-09-2005, 01:25 PM
I'm very sad to see Frank leave, but I understand why it happened.

It's the only move so far that has the potential to hurt us this coming season, IMO.

I agree, but it was a move to be made. It wouldve hurt us bigtime had they NOT acquired Thome, and pulled a 1995 and went with Ross Gload at DH.
Getting Thome makes losing Thomas not "Hurt" as much .......... :whiner:

Bucky F. Dent
12-09-2005, 01:26 PM
Not bolstering the bullpen.

Frater Perdurabo
12-09-2005, 01:27 PM
Good point. But I insist Kenny didnt have to part with top prospects. Philly wanted to dump Thome. Kenny is the guy who sees a Car priced at $25,000 and insists on paying $35,000 for it.
That said, his Marte for Mackowiak was very Hendry-esque. Good trade

The better analogy would be that Kenny is willing to pay $35,000 for the reliable Volvo that will do a great job and fills a real need, while Hendry gets rave reviews for paying $25,000 for the slick-looking Corvette that, upon further inspection, has 200,000 miles on its original engine, was driven recklessly by a teenager and was in three wrecks and a flood.
:wink:

What prospect has KW traded that has blossomed into a star for another team? I can't think of any. Don't you think it's possible that KW may know better than all of us whether or not Haigwood and Gio will turn out to be studs? Furthermore, if Thome helps the Sox repeat as champs, does it really matter if Gio and Haigwood turn out to be Cy Young winners with the Phillies, in the inferior National League?

:cool:

Hangar18
12-09-2005, 01:28 PM
No, it wasn't Hendry-esque because Hendry-esque is crappy.
Do you realize that we got one of the premiere sluggers in the game AND the Phillies ate half his salary? I know you would have rather the Sox paid the full contract and kept the prospects because in your insane fantasy world the Sox should have a payroll of $150 million and anything less is cheap and stupid.

No, in my insane fantasy world, we would have us stocked with prospects should something bad like an injury happen down the line, or better yet, use them in a real-trade, not as throw-ins to a deal. Kenny saw what was in the Phillies' hand. Again, he got the better end of the Mackowiak deal.

Flight #24
12-09-2005, 01:29 PM
No, in my insane fantasy world, we would have us stocked with prospects should something bad like an injury happen down the line, or better yet, use them in a real-trade, not as throw-ins to a deal. Kenny saw what was in the Phillies' hand. Again, he got the better end of the Mackowiak deal.

Based on what exactly? That Philly was quite willing to take Rowand and still send that much cash? Which came from which of the antennae in your tin foil hat?

TomBradley72
12-09-2005, 01:30 PM
Not locking up Garland for a three year deal so he doesn't go FA after 2006. 26 years old....coming off an 18 win season...two stud performances in the post season. He's not a fluke...he's the real deal...will be one the premier pitchers in the league over the next 3-5 years.

Other than that...letting Rooney go to St. Louis. :cool:

thepaulbowski
12-09-2005, 01:32 PM
Kenny may overpay, but he gets the right players for the Sox. And the Sox won the World Series and are poised to repeat.

Kenny gave up Aaron Rowand and a couple prospects for a lot of cash. That is not overpaying. A bird in the hand is worth more than a bush.

Frater Perdurabo
12-09-2005, 01:37 PM
I'm very sad to see Frank leave, but I understand why it happened.

It's the only move so far that has the potential to hurt us this coming season, IMO.

I also voted for the failure to offer Frank some kind of deal as the "worst" off-season move.

Of course I want the Sox to repeat as champs. However, I hope Frank signs with Oakland, stays healthy all year, gets 650 plate appearances, hits a solo homer in every single at-bat against the Sox (but the Sox win each game), including #500 off Buehrle in September, and retires after having won the Triple Crown and the AL MVP, just to prove all his detractors wrong.

Frater Perdurabo
12-09-2005, 01:40 PM
Kenny gave up Aaron Rowand and a couple prospects for a lot of cash. That is not overpaying. A bird in the hand is worth more than a bush.

I didn't say he overpaid in the Thome trade. He wisely does pay more for better quality than Hendry does in his trades, though.
:D:

voodoochile
12-09-2005, 01:50 PM
No, in my insane fantasy world, we would have us stocked with prospects should something bad like an injury happen down the line, or better yet, use them in a real-trade, not as throw-ins to a deal. Kenny saw what was in the Phillies' hand. Again, he got the better end of the Mackowiak deal.

Did I miss something or is the Sox minor league system as strong and up and coming as it has been in over a decade?

Yeah, most of those players are a year or two away from contributing but none of the "prospects" who got traded are any different and most of them are further away or not really prospects at all.

It would be nice to both have a WS champion caliber team on the field and one waiting in the minors just waiting to be called up, but that's just pure fantasy.

Which player that got traded had the chance to be a capable replacement level player this coming season? I don't see any that fit that description. In fact, KW held on to the guys who are closest to fitting that description (Anderson, Borchard and Owens (not to mention McCarthy)).

You are really reaching here, Hangar...

voodoochile
12-09-2005, 01:52 PM
I also voted for the failure to offer Frank some kind of deal as the "worst" off-season move.

Of course I want the Sox to repeat as champs. However, I hope Frank signs with Oakland, stays healthy all year, gets 650 plate appearances, hits a solo homer in every single at-bat against the Sox (but the Sox win each game), including #500 off Buehrle in September, and retires after having won the Triple Crown and the AL MVP, just to prove all his detractors wrong.

Why would he retire after having a season like that? He'd be a shoe in for a HUGE contract...:?:

mjharrison72
12-09-2005, 01:58 PM
I think Rowand has the ability to hit even better than he did in 2004, and, in addition to him being a fan favorite, I think that trade haunts us because he turns into an all-around amazing player.

TheKittle
12-09-2005, 02:15 PM
I think Rowand has the ability to hit even better than he did in 2004, and, in addition to him being a fan favorite, I think that trade haunts us because he turns into an all-around amazing player.

Come on. Rowand was a good player and all but he wasn't an all star and he wouldn't be considered one of the top 5 players at his position. And how long before his reckless style of play gets him hurt?

TheOldRoman
12-09-2005, 02:18 PM
No, in my insane fantasy world, we would have us stocked with prospects should something bad like an injury happen down the line, or better yet, use them in a real-trade, not as throw-ins to a deal. Kenny saw what was in the Phillies' hand. Again, he got the better end of the Mackowiak deal.
Hangar, we do have prospects stocked up.
The prospects weren't a throw in on this deal. You are not right, you need to seek help. There is no possibly way the Sox could have made the deal and paid for all of Thome's contract. Even if you choose not to believe it, the Sox do have a budget. Therefore, in order for the deal to get done, we had to give them the two prospects.
My guess is that you know NOTHING about the prospects. From your other posts, I haven't really picked up that you follow the minor leagues. You have no clue whether either one of them will be an allstar of a flop, but you need something to bitch about. Whenever you rip on Dye, people shred you. You can no longer bring up Lee being such a great player, and the Sox are world champions. You need something else to complain about.

Please, tell us that the Sox made their bed by trading the prospects, and they will have to lie in it. The Royals have a lost of prospects. Are we going to be finishing behind them anytime soon?:rolleyes:

soxfanatlanta
12-09-2005, 02:21 PM
I think Rowand has the ability to hit even better than he did in 2004, and, in addition to him being a fan favorite, I think that trade haunts us because he turns into an all-around amazing player.

He is certainly going to have an opportunity to put up some big numbers at the home ballpark - it's very hitter friendly, eh?

I don't like giving up young pitching - plain and simple. I know, a prospect is a prospect, and you have no idea what they are going to do in the bigs, but if they do well...

Overall, KW is doing well SO FAR. I still think he has a trick or two up his sleeve. We shall see.

Is it Feb 20 yet?

Hangar18
12-09-2005, 02:22 PM
Whenever you rip on Dye, people shred you. You can no longer bring up Lee being such a great player, and the Sox are world champions. You need something else to complain about.

Please, tell us that the Sox made their bed by trading the prospects, and they will have to lie in it. The Royals have a lost of prospects. Are we going to be finishing behind them anytime soon?:rolleyes:

SPeaking of Jermaine Dye and Carlos Lee ...........

soxfanatlanta
12-09-2005, 02:23 PM
Are we going to be finishing behind them anytime soon?:rolleyes:


Only if you count in reverse order!

:D:

TheOldRoman
12-09-2005, 02:24 PM
SPeaking of Jermaine Dye and Carlos Lee ...........

:D: You may be nuts, but at least you can laugh at yourself.

TONY23
12-09-2005, 02:40 PM
Not marte

Paulwny
12-09-2005, 02:40 PM
I've stated this before. all trades cannot be a one way street. If every prospect the sox trade ends up being a bust Gm's will feel the sox farm hands are over-rated, much as the yankmee prospects are looked at today. I hope a few of the prospects end up being decent mlb players, of course not super stars. If they always fail as mlb talent the sox will have a difficult time making trades in the future.

Frater Perdurabo
12-09-2005, 02:42 PM
Why would he retire after having a season like that? He'd be a shoe in for a HUGE contract...:?:

That's why there's deeppink on the word "hope." But I'll make all the fantasy text deeppink to be less confusing.
:redface:

Fuller_Schettman
12-09-2005, 02:44 PM
I think Rowand has the ability to hit even better than he did in 2004,

Yeah, he proved that in 2003...
:cool:

voodoochile
12-09-2005, 02:49 PM
That's why there's deeppink on the word "hope." But I'll make all the fantasy text deeppink to be less confusing.
:redface:

No, I understood what you were getting at, but the fantasy ends with the retirement. He would NEVER retire after putting up numbers like that.

voodoochile
12-09-2005, 02:50 PM
Yeah, he proved that in 2003...
:cool:

He did? He definitely regressed in 2005 and given his minor league numbers, 2005 is much more in line with his career projections.

Frater Perdurabo
12-09-2005, 02:51 PM
No, I understood what you were getting at, but the fantasy ends with the retirement. He would NEVER retire after putting up numbers like that.

In my fantasy world he would! :tongue:

Fuller_Schettman
12-09-2005, 03:01 PM
He did? He definitely regressed in 2005 and given his minor league numbers, 2005 is much more in line with his career projections.

Whoops! My bad. I saw 2004 but thought 2005. And I typed 2003, but thought 2004. Got it? Yeah, me neither... :redface:

mjharrison72
12-09-2005, 03:05 PM
He is certainly going to have an opportunity to put up some big numbers at the home ballpark - it's very hitter friendly, eh?

I don't like giving up young pitching - plain and simple. I know, a prospect is a prospect, and you have no idea what they are going to do in the bigs, but if they do well...

Overall, KW is doing well SO FAR. I still think he has a trick or two up his sleeve. We shall see.

Is it Feb 20 yet?
And then you also realize what an amazing cluch hitter Rowand can be... he's a career .310 hitter with runners on.

mjharrison72
12-09-2005, 03:06 PM
Whoops! My bad. I saw 2004 but thought 2005. And I typed 2003, but thought 2004. Got it? Yeah, me neither... :redface:
I sort of wondered what you meant, too... but I see you got it straight now. Either way, I can see Rowand easily hitting better than .300 for years to come.