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caulfield12
12-08-2005, 12:18 PM
LOL.

I kind of doubt we would still pursue Tony G. after taking Mackowiak, but I would definitely prefer him to Willie Harris...who seems like he is almost out of rope in terms of his White Sox career after refusing to learn SS in Winter Ball.

It will be an interesting situation with Perez, Harris, Borchard and Gload. There is a pretty good chance none of those guys will be with the White Sox on Opening Day.

I would guess we are still looking for that LH off the bench, so Borchard, Gload or Perez would be the most logical to keep.

If we really are disappointed about losing Harrisīspeed, we have Ozuna still, and Owens in the minors would replicate everything Harris can bring as a pinch-runner (and probably more), although I would highly doubt he would be retained for that role at this point in his career.

With Mackowiak and Ozuna, we already have a couple of capable back-ups for Iguchi, hence, no need for the one-dimensional Willie.

CHIsoxNation
12-08-2005, 12:25 PM
Even if we didn't get Mackowiak I don't think Kenny would be going after Tony G again. He was offered arbitration by Boston and I doubt Kenny wanted to give up any draft picks for him

caulfield12
12-08-2005, 12:30 PM
Even if we didn't get Mackowiak I don't think Kenny would be going after Tony G again. He was offered arbitration by Boston and I doubt Kenny wanted to give up any draft picks for him

For some reason, I thought the Red Sox had offered arbitration to Mueller but not to Graffanino. Yes, losing draft picks (I am sure they would not be first round to Type A though) would not be the wisest move in my book, especially when we already have Ozuna, Mackowiak and Willie Harris than can play 2B.

Mackowiak fills the back-up spot for Crede offensively (much better than Ozuna for 2-3 months).

The only obvious weakness now in the roster is no back-up SS for Uribe...although we do have Pedro Lopez and Valido, not sure I would be ready for either of them to play extended time in the majors quite yet.

Chicken Dinner
12-08-2005, 12:44 PM
The title of this thread blows. It should be the Willie/Timo don't let the door hit you in the rear.

caulfield12
12-08-2005, 12:55 PM
The title of this thread blows. It should be the Willie/Timo don't let the door hit you in the rear.

I wonder if they had a Shawn Lil Abner, Matt Merullo, Steve Sax or Cory Snyder Appreciation Thread when they left, lol.

I would have written one for Warren Newson, Norberto Paco Martin or Rodney McCray if the internet existed back then...

Flight #24
12-08-2005, 01:10 PM
I wonder if they had a Shawn Lil Abner, Matt Merullo, Steve Sax or Cory Snyder Appreciation Thread when they left, lol.

I would have written one for Warren Newson, Norberto Paco Martin or Rodney McCray if the internet existed back then...

I'll always remember Jory Cora in the locker room yelling "The Legend of the Deacon" way back when. Good Times.

williefan22
12-08-2005, 01:13 PM
The title of this thread blows. It should be the Willie/Timo don't let the door hit you in the rear.

I love Willie. I would hate to see him go, but then I would wish him the best in starting somewhere in the major leagues and getting a chance to finally play a full season (two years ago didn't count). Main man will be a little lonely though without his boy.

kittle42
12-08-2005, 01:21 PM
If this trade means no more Harris, Gload, or Perez, it's the greatest trade ever.

RallyBowl
12-08-2005, 01:30 PM
Timo is clutch and you all know it. Haters.

And let's not forget Willie scored the winning run in Game 4. Haters.

The Dude
12-08-2005, 01:31 PM
Timo is clutch and you all know it. Haters.

And let's not forget Willie scored the winning run in Game 4. Haters.

Yes i am a Hater of ****ty players! Guilty as charged!

The Dude
12-08-2005, 01:31 PM
If this trade means no more Harris, Gload, or Perez, it's the greatest trade ever.

Exactly--- addition by subtraction!:gulp::bandance:

tebman
12-08-2005, 01:34 PM
I love Willie. I would hate to see him go, but then I would wish him the best in starting somewhere in the major leagues and getting a chance to finally play a full season (two years ago didn't count). Main man will be a little lonely though without his boy.

:?: Bafiarocks? Is that you?

caulfield12
12-08-2005, 01:34 PM
Timo is clutch and you all know it. Haters.

And let's not forget Willie scored the winning run in Game 4. Haters.

From 2002 and 2005, as a PHer, Timoīs average is well under .200.

We remember him winning games against Frankie Rodriguez and Armando Benitez in 2004, but thatīs about the extent of his clutch hitting...maybe one game last year where he got a base hit to LCF, canīt remember the specifics.

hawkjt
12-08-2005, 01:40 PM
Willie Harris stats after his stint in the minors then got called up in Aug;

13 hits in 31 at bats- .420 average. Stole multiple bases without getting thrown out after the minors stint. Got the ultimate winning base hit off of Lidge in the 9th in the World Series. Was clutch in the post season with the big steal of the playoffs. Retain Willie.

bighurt2719
12-08-2005, 01:49 PM
Timo is clutch and you all know it. Haters.

And let's not forget Willie scored the winning run in Game 4. Haters.

exactly. no one here appreciates the clutch bloop single. KEEP TIMO!:bandance:

hold2dibber
12-08-2005, 01:52 PM
Willie Harris stats after his stint in the minors then got called up in Aug;

13 hits in 31 at bats- .420 average. Stole multiple bases without getting thrown out after the minors stint. Got the ultimate winning base hit off of Lidge in the 9th in the World Series. Was clutch in the post season with the big steal of the playoffs. Retain Willie.

That's exactly why he has some value now. I don't see him as having spot on this team. I'd try to deal him.

Chicken Dinner
12-08-2005, 01:54 PM
Willie Harris stats after his stint in the minors then got called up in Aug;

13 hits in 31 at bats- .420 average. Stole multiple bases without getting thrown out after the minors stint. Got the ultimate winning base hit off of Lidge in the 9th in the World Series. Was clutch in the post season with the big steal of the playoffs. Retain Willie.

And his stats in the minors were??????????

TheKittle
12-08-2005, 02:06 PM
Go back to Game 4 of the WS. Man on second, one out. Foul ball pop down the LF line. Uribe, Crede and Pods are all going after the ball. Uribe makes that great catch for the second out. There are two guys covering third, just in case the runner at 2nd tags up. One guy was Bobby Jenks. The other Willie Harris. That is smart baseball. Willie never developed into an everyday starter. But he sure as hell wasn't the worst player ever.

kevingrt
12-08-2005, 02:15 PM
Who didn't love Willie and Timo. Come on, two years ago when Willie scores from first to win the game on a RBI single. Or how about "Come One TIMO, Come On TIMO!!!"

I would rather have Willie then Timo because of his speed and he can play 2B and CF, but I also like Timo becuase he is a veteran of the league.

Oh well, one of them has to be retained, might as well be Willie for bafiarock's sakes.

kittle42
12-08-2005, 02:25 PM
Willie harris and Timo Perez are not quality MLB players. Sure, you could probably do worse than them, well maybe not Perez, but you could do A LOT BETTER.

It does not make good baseball sense to say "look, this .200 hitter got two clutch hits" or "once he came back from the minors for the fifth time, he actually didn't suck in 40 at-bats."

Almost any player can be seen as good or even great if you take only a slice of their year or career. I really would like someone to make an argument that Perez or Harris should be worthy of a Sox roster spot based on their overall numbers and abilities.

hawkjt
12-08-2005, 02:35 PM
And Brian Anderson's case for starting in center field after hitting under .200?

Willie just might have turned the corner and is maturing just as I expect that BA will also. Young players often get better as they mature,ya know.

Baby Fisk
12-08-2005, 02:37 PM
Timo is clutch and you all know it. Haters.

And let's not forget Willie scored the winning run in Game 4. Haters.

http://img36.photobucket.com/albums/v109/nurshad/silky_johnson4.jpg
"Willie Harris and Timo Perez: don't let the door hit ya...well you know the rest..."

Chicken Dinner
12-08-2005, 02:40 PM
And Brian Anderson's case for starting in center field after hitting under .200?

Willie just might have turned the corner and is maturing just as I expect that BA will also. Young players often get better as they mature,ya know.

Willie Harris has 854 career big league AB's with a .242 avg. with 4 years experience. The kid is 27 years old and should be peaking right now. The bottom lines is that some guys got talent and some don't and won't. And for a supposed speedster, 49 SB's with 12 CS's isn't that good.

KRS1
12-08-2005, 02:41 PM
And Brian Anderson's case for starting in center field after hitting under .200?

Willie just might have turned the corner and is maturing just as I expect that BA will also. Young players often get better as they mature,ya know.

Im kinda with you on this one in the way you think Willie is better than ever(which isnt saying much), although he was butcher during his time in Center. Despite what some people believe he does have some good value in a trade as well as Gload. I wonder if we could push those 2 off to a team for a LOOGY?

kittle42
12-08-2005, 02:46 PM
And Brian Anderson's case for starting in center field after hitting under .200?

Jeez...a little baseball sense would answer this one.

Optipessimism
12-08-2005, 02:47 PM
Willie looked like he may have turned the corner late last year, but unfortunately for him this was way too late. I still think he has a chance to be a very good second baseman somewhere as a starter but I don't think he's going to get that opportunity unless someone gets injured. Good luck Willie.

Timo OTOH has had some great clutch hits and even though his numbers don't show it, he was always battling when he had to. I recall many AB's late in the game where he'd foul off pitch after pitch and then end the AB with a hard line drive right at someone in the OF. I also loved the way he would get in the heads of pitchers like he was going to steal but we all knew he wouldn't. Good luck to you too Timo.

I also hope Borchard isn't the 4th OF over Timo. If Owens gets the spot as WhiteSox.com said, then fine. But IMO Timo, even though he still may put up crappy numbers, is going to give you a much better clutch AB than Borchard ever will.

deck27
12-08-2005, 03:07 PM
Willie Harris stats after his stint in the minors then got called up in Aug;

13 hits in 31 at bats- .420 average. Stole multiple bases without getting thrown out after the minors stint. Got the ultimate winning base hit off of Lidge in the 9th in the World Series. Was clutch in the post season with the big steal of the playoffs. Retain Willie.

Willie is definitely worthy of a roster spot as a PR and backup 2B/CF. His base stealing ability is hard to replace, but I know Ozzie likes Ozuna. Tough call. No more Timo!!

soxfan43
12-08-2005, 03:10 PM
I hope Timo is gone, but I'd like to keep Willie. But I understand that he probably wants a shot at starting. Willie can play 2b and OF and also is a left handed bat. Plus he's fast as hell. You can call Timo clutch all you want, but his stats prove that he sucks.

The_Floridian
12-08-2005, 03:28 PM
Maybe we oughta wait until they are officially gone.

And seriously, what's with all the hate? Timo did a good job in a less than essential role on the Sox. He had some clutch hits and never did anything to hurt the team. Isn't that what you have a utility guy for. And last I checked, Willie Harris scored the run that gave the Sox their first title in 88 years.

Don't these guys deserve a little more than "Don't let the door hit ya"?

tebman
12-08-2005, 03:34 PM
Maybe we oughta wait until they are officially gone.

I agree -- we're making a lot of assumptions here, but I suppose that's what the hot-stove league is all about.

I'd worry more about Timo's future, because I'm sure that bafiarocks is deep in negotiations with KW on Willie Harris's behalf, probably as we speak. :D:

Chicken Dinner
12-08-2005, 03:38 PM
Don't these guys deserve a little more than "Don't let the door hit ya"?

They got a ring.

Baby Fisk
12-08-2005, 03:44 PM
Don't these guys deserve a little more than "Don't let the door hit ya"?
Now that we are champions and all, we can start acting like Yankee fans.

"HEY CREDE! WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR US LATELY! YOU SUCK!"

The Dude
12-08-2005, 04:22 PM
And Brian Anderson's case for starting in center field after hitting under .200?

For someone with as many years as yours..i figured youd be able to figure this part out for yourself!:cool:

hawkjt
12-08-2005, 04:29 PM
I got nothing against Brian Anderson and I think he will be ok out in center but I was respnding to someone saying that willie had his chance in the majors and has proven he does not belong. He has really only had like the equivalent of one full year at the major level and he hit .260- does not sound like he is not worthy of being a backup.

The Dude
12-08-2005, 04:34 PM
I got nothing against Brian Anderson and I think he will be ok out in center but I was respnding to someone saying that willie had his chance in the majors and has proven he does not belong. He has really only had like the equivalent of one full year at the major level and he hit .260- does not sound like he is not worthy of being a backup.

He just got a chance at the end of the season to play a little here and there...he was just drafted in 2003 in the first round so they obviously have high hopes for him. He was not drafted in the first to be a bench player!

Yeah Willie may have a chance to be a decent player in the league but hes just not that good... period! Anderson has the potential to be a great player and hopefully he'll land the job in CF for many years to come.

24thStFan
12-08-2005, 04:34 PM
Maybe we oughta wait until they are officially gone.

And seriously, what's with all the hate? Timo did a good job in a less than essential role on the Sox. He had some clutch hits and never did anything to hurt the team. Isn't that what you have a utility guy for. And last I checked, Willie Harris scored the run that gave the Sox their first title in 88 years.

Don't these guys deserve a little more than "Don't let the door hit ya"?

Exactly! You'd think the guy who scored the WINNING RUN in the World series could catch a break. I'll bet you guys and gals were cheering like crazy when Willie crossed the plate in Game 4. What a bunch of hypocrites!

Willie, you have a place in White Sox history. I hope you stay with the team. If you leave, I wish you the best of luck and I'll cheer you because you were a contributing member of the 2005 World Champions.

Chicken Dinner
12-08-2005, 05:14 PM
Exactly! You'd think the guy who scored the WINNING RUN in the World series could catch a break. I'll bet you guys and gals were cheering like crazy when Willie crossed the plate in Game 4. What a bunch of hypocrites!

Willie, you have a place in White Sox history. I hope you stay with the team. If you leave, I wish you the best of luck and I'll cheer you because you were a contributing member of the 2005 World Champions.

When the winning run crossed the plate I could of cared less who it was. It could of been the bat boy, but as long it was the winning run, that's all that mattered. Willie contributed more to the Charlotte Knights than he did to the White Sox.

bafiarocks03
12-08-2005, 05:18 PM
:?: Bafiarocks? Is that you?

No..This is me...This is the gayest thing!! Omg! how can kenny do this! that man is losing more and more points with me everyday!! I can't take this anymore! I'm about to burts into tears right here! I saw that is said Look for A.J to get a multi year deal and all but Timo and WILLIE to return to the sox! this is horrible! this is worse then trading aaron!! Willie has to be on our team! At this point i don't give a crap if he goes to the minors! as long as he is with the organization! He can't leave..i'll die...:whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

TheVulture
12-08-2005, 05:26 PM
When the winning run crossed the plate I could of cared less who it was. It could of been the bat boy, but as long it was the winning run, that's all that mattered. Willie contributed more to the Charlotte Knights than he did to the White Sox.

Please - Willie came through when it counted in the World Frickin' Series. I'm not saying he's got a place on the 2006 squad, but have some gratitude.

MrRoboto83
12-08-2005, 05:29 PM
If this trade means no more Harris, Gload, or Perez, it's the greatest trade ever.

I agree 100%

kittle42
12-08-2005, 05:37 PM
Please - Willie came through when it counted in the World Frickin' Series. I'm not saying he's got a place on the 2006 squad, but have some gratitude.

Jeez, people. You know what? Let's just keep the whole team from last year together forever! Wille Harris scored an important run! He's infallible!

This is the gayest thing!! Omg!

This is the worst thread ever.
:threadsucks

TheVulture
12-08-2005, 05:39 PM
Jeez, people. You know what? Let's just keep the whole team from last year together forever! Wille Harris scored an important run! He's infallible!






Can you read?

kittle42
12-08-2005, 05:41 PM
Can you read?

No, but I'll have the person who reads things to me take you off my Christmas card list.

Perhaps I should have quoted another person's comments in this thread, but I just chose to take the last one. Sorry there, chief!

Huisj
12-08-2005, 05:46 PM
Emotions seem to be running high on this board today. Is it the smoking thread that's doing it? Everyone here always has an opinion and expresses it, but today it's like extra harsh . . . which is actually kind of hilarious considering this big argument is over Willie Harris and Timo Perez.

I think the folks that are saying Harris will always be a little bit special to the Sox for helping manufacture the winning run are right on. Geoff Blum will also be remembered that way. That doesn't mean that those guys have to automatically stay with the organization forever. In some ways, maybe it's even better that they move on and have a chance somewhere else and become a sort of folklore legend on the southside because of the magic they contributed just at the right time in 2005. For Blum, it was the homer. For Harris, it was the way he stepped up to give Iguchi some much needed time off late in the year and his pinch hit and game winning run in game 4.

kittle42
12-08-2005, 05:51 PM
Emotions seem to be running high on this board today. Is it the smoking thread that's doing it? Everyone here always has an opinion and expresses it, but today it's like extra harsh . . . which is actually kind of hilarious considering this big argument is over Willie Harris and Timo Perez.

I think the folks that are saying Harris will always be a little bit special to the Sox for helping manufacture the winning run are right on. Geoff Blum will also be remembered that way. That doesn't mean that those guys have to automatically stay with the organization forever. In some ways, maybe it's even better that they move on and have a chance somewhere else and become a sort of folklore legend on the southside because of the magic they contributed just at the right time in 2005. For Blum, it was the homer. For Harris, it was the way he stepped up to give Iguchi some much needed time off late in the year and his pinch hit and game winning run in game 4.

On a related note, how did the Bears ever get rid of this guy?

http://bears.scout.com/2/392238.html

TimoPerez
12-08-2005, 05:54 PM
Keep Timo!:smile:

Optipessimism
12-08-2005, 06:01 PM
Wouldn't we be better off offering arbitration to at least Willie and Gload? They can't make that much and we could always put them in AAA or trade them. I mean, I'd like them to leave so they would have a chance to play somewhere but wouldn't offering them arbitration make more sense for the organization?

ShoelessJoeS
12-08-2005, 06:05 PM
Timo, I'll never forget your 2 rbi single in the bottom of the ninth to beat the Angels on the day the greatest Sox player ever returned to the lineup in 05. Easily one of the greatest games of the year, even more so that I was there!

:gulp: Here's to you Timo

SoxSpeed22
12-08-2005, 06:07 PM
Good luck to everyone. Willie, thanks for the winning run of the Series.
Timo, thanks for the big hits you got and being a piece of our championship team. Everyone was important to winning. Good luck again.

The_Floridian
12-08-2005, 06:07 PM
I think the folks that are saying Harris will always be a little bit special to the Sox for helping manufacture the winning run are right on. Geoff Blum will also be remembered that way. That doesn't mean that those guys have to automatically stay with the organization forever. In some ways, maybe it's even better that they move on and have a chance somewhere else and become a sort of folklore legend on the southside because of the magic they contributed just at the right time in 2005. For Blum, it was the homer. For Harris, it was the way he stepped up to give Iguchi some much needed time off late in the year and his pinch hit and game winning run in game 4.

Exactly. It doesn't make sense to keep Willie and Timo next season. Willie needs to go somewhere he'll have a shot to be a starter (Cincinnati, for example) and there's no point in keeping Timo with all our outfield prospects waiting to come up.

That said, I really appreciate everything they did for the Sox. Simple as that.

Assuming you're gone, here's to you, Willie and Timo. So long, and thanks for all the fish. :gulp:

DickAllen72
12-08-2005, 06:08 PM
Willie Harris stats after his stint in the minors then got called up in Aug;

13 hits in 31 at bats- .420 average. Stole multiple bases without getting thrown out after the minors stint. Got the ultimate winning base hit off of Lidge in the 9th in the World Series. Was clutch in the post season with the big steal of the playoffs. Retain Willie.

Willie stays! Timo goes.

bafiarocks03
12-08-2005, 09:12 PM
Willie stays! Timo goes.


YAY!!!!!:D:

mike squires
12-08-2005, 09:17 PM
I'll always remember Jory Cora in the locker room yelling "The Legend of the Deacon" way back when. Good Times.

"Don't forget, we always got the Deacon in the 9th."

Joey Cora~(3 locker room celebration

MasQbellesa
12-08-2005, 11:00 PM
Willie, you have a place in White Sox history. I hope you stay with the team. If you leave, I wish you the best of luck and I'll cheer you because you were a contributing member of the 2005 World Champions.[/QUOTE]


Amen!

and I heart Timo!

Theanticub
12-09-2005, 02:38 AM
The title of this thread blows. It should be the Willie/Timo don't let the door hit you in the rear.

I like willie. Also, If it wasn't for him...JD wouldn't of been able to knock in a run in game 4.

The Dude
12-09-2005, 03:41 AM
No..This is me...This is the gayest thing!! Omg! how can kenny do this! that man is losing more and more points with me everyday!! I can't take this anymore! I'm about to burts into tears right here! I saw that is said Look for A.J to get a multi year deal and all but Timo and WILLIE to return to the sox! this is horrible! this is worse then trading aaron!! Willie has to be on our team! At this point i don't give a crap if he goes to the minors! as long as he is with the organization! He can't leave..i'll die...:whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

Yeah its a shame Kenny is losing points with you.....he just assembled a ****ign world series team!!!! Your boys suck plain and simple! I dont think youll die if a couple of scrubs leave the team. Become a Mac fan cuz hes the real deal when it comes to utility.

Canadian_SoxFan
12-09-2005, 03:58 AM
I want Willie on this team, but I'd rather see him get a starting job somewhere else.

ode to veeck
12-09-2005, 10:49 AM
I say keep Timo and let Willie go. He's a great guy, but Willie's BA & baserunning skills don't cut it for a bench player. I don't know why the Borchard experience should continue either.

balke
12-09-2005, 11:28 AM
So wait, does Tony G. get a ring for helping us sweep Boston in the 1st round? Willie was very effective in the playoffs for the White Sox. He's a great asset for the Sox bench and people should realize that.

bighurt2719
12-09-2005, 11:35 AM
So wait, does Tony G. get a ring for helping us sweep Boston in the 1st round? Willie was very effective in the playoffs for the White Sox. He's a great asset for the Sox bench and people should realize that.

i love timo, but he gone.

willie i see as a valuable last man on the roster. he fit in really well last year, and he came through in the clutch when we needed him to (i.e. game 4 of WS). so i say we keep willie for $450,000 or whatever the minimum pay is.