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View Full Version : Boston Herald: Lyle Overbay to the Jays. Bad move, Crew.


It's Time
12-07-2005, 11:17 PM
From the Boston Herald . . .

There has been no formal announcement yet, but baseball sources have confirmed that the Toronto Blue Jays and Milwaukee Brewers have all but agreed to a deal that will send first baseman Lyle Overbay to Toronto. In exchange, the Brewers will get Shea Hillenbrand and pitcher Dave Bush.

Ken Rothensal also confirmed this.

Flight #24
12-07-2005, 11:21 PM
Well, they trade a decent, but unlikely to improve significantly (given his age) 1B for a younger, cheaper, decent pitcher and a vet CI as insurance for Prince Fielder. Sounds like a fair swap to me.

nodiggity59
12-07-2005, 11:24 PM
Actually the deal no longer include Hillenbrand.

Corlose 15
12-08-2005, 12:07 AM
I believe the revised trade is Overbay for Dave Bush, Gabe Gross and a minor league pitcher(Zach Jackson).

Dan Mega
12-08-2005, 08:50 AM
Is it too early to say that the Jays now have a legit shot at winning the AL East in 2006? :o:

Jays are one of my favorite teams, I've love it.

brewcrew/chisox
12-08-2005, 12:47 PM
Most of the people on brewerfan.net are going ga ga over this trade but I'm still uncertain I like it. Bush really hasn't proven himself to be anything and Gross seems to be nothing more than a reliable backup. Don't know much about the rookie. I was kind of hoping they would have gotten Hillabrand in the deal, only to spin him off to the Twins for more pitching.

SABRSox
12-08-2005, 02:48 PM
Bush is a very talented pitcher, and he's still developing. I liked the trade a lot better when Hillenbrand was included. Bush and other prospects for Overbay isn't as nice, but I don't know much about those other prospects. At any rate, it makes them younger for when Prince Fielder is ready to go.

MHOUSE
12-08-2005, 05:26 PM
Overbay was a solid player, but Prince Fielder projects to absolutely mash the ball all over southern Wisconsin. Overbay was blocking his move to 1B so you move him and get a young pitcher with upside and a backup OF to replace Magruder. Good trade for the Brew Crew.

WSoxFanForever
12-08-2005, 06:54 PM
On top of having White Sox Fever, I love the Brewers. Living in Wisconsin, I see all their games and they are my second fav team. Overbay had no place to play as Fielder is going to be the 1B next year. The Crew really have a lot of very young, very promising youngsters. Look for them to possibly be playoff material (wildcard?) in two years. Their pitching is way underrated. They have a great pitching coach in Mike Maddux, and had a low team ERA. Ok, ok. I"ll quit babbling. Often I am watching the Brewers onTV while listening to the Sox on the radio, since we don't get Sox games up here in Wisconsin on TV! :) I think the trade is all right.

soxwon
12-08-2005, 06:56 PM
I believe the revised trade is Overbay for Dave Bush, Gabe Gross and a minor league pitcher(Zach Jackson).

greg gross? wasnt he a cub once?

Banix12
12-08-2005, 07:07 PM
Most of the people on brewerfan.net are going ga ga over this trade but I'm still uncertain I like it. Bush really hasn't proven himself to be anything and Gross seems to be nothing more than a reliable backup. Don't know much about the rookie. I was kind of hoping they would have gotten Hillabrand in the deal, only to spin him off to the Twins for more pitching.

Bush didn't really get much support last season, his overall numbers were encouraging. He should at least be a clear upgrade over Victor Santos and should be better than Tomo Ohka. I think he opens up the season in the 4 slot. This also likely moves Helling to the bullpen as a swingman, which is probably a better position for him.

Gross should get a shot at the 4th OF spot competing with Corey Hart and Nelson Cruz. He is a project but his AAA numbers look good enough that he could be another steal like Clark or Pods.

The rookie is a good prospect who shot through their minor league system last year. He was drafted in the first round in 2004 and he finished up the 2005 season at AAA. He is probably a year away but he looks to be a real solid pitching prospect.

I usually think it is best to not acquire a guy just to trade him again that offseason. The Twins could go a different direction with a guy like Piazza and that would leave the Brewers in the lurch with Hillenbrand stuck on the roster with nowhere to play. For a straight up deal this is a solid trade.

samram
12-08-2005, 07:09 PM
Bush is a very talented pitcher, and he's still developing. I liked the trade a lot better when Hillenbrand was included. Bush and other prospects for Overbay isn't as nice, but I don't know much about those other prospects. At any rate, it makes them younger for when Prince Fielder is ready to go.

Either way, the Brewers have a nice starting group with Capuano, Davis, Sheets, and Bush, if he develops well.

soxwon
12-08-2005, 09:56 PM
Either way, the Brewers have a nice starting group with Capuano, Davis, Sheets, and Bush, if he develops well.


help me here.
Has Sheets ever PROVEN himself yet?
He was suppose to be this phenom!!!!

Banix12
12-08-2005, 10:04 PM
help me here.
Has Sheets ever PROVEN himself yet?
He was suppose to be this phenom!!!!

Yes, nobody noticed though because he plays in Milwaukee.

2004 numbers 2.70 ERA, 264 K, 32 BB, 237 innings, 5 complete games.
2005 numbers 3.33 ERA, 141 K, 25 BB, 156.2 innings, 3 complete games

He had a viral infection this last year which caused vertigo. That caused him to miss part of the season. However it was the first time he had ever been on the injured list. He also missed his last couple starts of last year because of back problems but that was largely precautionary I believe since the Brewers were already eliminated.

Palehose13
12-08-2005, 10:08 PM
help me here.
Has Sheets ever PROVEN himself yet?
He was suppose to be this phenom!!!!

W-L ERA K Walks WHIP
10-9 3.33 141 25 1.07

I'd say that's pretty good, except maybe you would want more wins (which I think he will start to get). 25 walks??? wow.

Here is 2004:

12-14 2.70 264 32 0.98

samram
12-08-2005, 10:09 PM
help me here.
Has Sheets ever PROVEN himself yet?
He was suppose to be this phenom!!!!

As the two previous posts point out, that would be a yes.

MHOUSE
12-09-2005, 01:48 AM
Sheets is a stud and pitching for the Yankees or Red Sox offense in 2004 would have won 20 games. I know, everyone takes tough-luck losses, but a sub-3 ERA and all those Ks should compute to more wins. He was rarely knocked from games and pitched a lot of 7+ or 8 inning losses after giving up 3 or 4 early runs. He's a gutsy pitcher with sick stuff and as the Brewers improve, so will he.

On the underrated note: Doug Davis has been a mainstay in their rotation the last two years. Eats innings, wins in the double digits, and brings a veteran prescence to the Capuano, Sheets aged players. But who has ever heard of Doug Davis?

Banix12
12-09-2005, 03:08 AM
Sheets is a stud and pitching for the Yankees or Red Sox offense in 2004 would have won 20 games. I know, everyone takes tough-luck losses, but a sub-3 ERA and all those Ks should compute to more wins. He was rarely knocked from games and pitched a lot of 7+ or 8 inning losses after giving up 3 or 4 early runs. He's a gutsy pitcher with sick stuff and as the Brewers improve, so will he.

On the underrated note: Doug Davis has been a mainstay in their rotation the last two years. Eats innings, wins in the double digits, and brings a veteran prescence to the Capuano, Sheets aged players. But who has ever heard of Doug Davis?

Doug Davis was an incredible coaching job by Mike Maddux. When the Brewers picked him up a couple years ago the brewers were his third team in one year after being released by both Toronto and Texas. Turned him around from a constant underacheiver to a solid mid-rotation starter

Tragg
12-09-2005, 10:40 PM
Overbay is a good, not great, player, with limitations. The brewer fans who believed they'd get a front-line pitcher for him were living in dreamland.