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SOXBOY
12-05-2005, 10:39 PM
Just read on Indians mlb web site that Hoffman will be taking a physical tues for Indians and deal is worth 21-23 mil. for 3 years.

Banix12
12-05-2005, 10:45 PM
Link?

Gosox1917
12-05-2005, 10:47 PM
I don't see it anywhere on the Indians mlb website yet?

Randar68
12-05-2005, 10:54 PM
And so far they've replaced Millwood with Paul Byrd and lost Elarton, right?


Starting pitching is their problem, their bullpen was pretty solid... sounds silly to me.

The Dude
12-05-2005, 11:05 PM
And so far they've replaced Millwood with Paul Byrd and lost Elarton, right?


Starting pitching is their problem, their bullpen was pretty solid... sounds silly to me.

Well essentially hoffman would be replacing Wickman who seems to be leaving via free agency and they also are missing their setup man Howry so they need to fine tune that pen.

The Dude
12-05-2005, 11:06 PM
Hoffman, San Diego's longtime closer, was negotiating with the Indians, who might have set a deadline as they look for a closer to replace Bob Wickman (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/4919/), who became a free agent.

from
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AqWNjZc_oMXvx7u914_YmEIRvLYF?slug=ap-wintermeetings&prov=ap&type=lgns

peeonwrigley
12-05-2005, 11:11 PM
And so far they've replaced Millwood with Paul Byrd and lost Elarton, right?


Starting pitching is their problem, their bullpen was pretty solid... sounds silly to me.

Yeah, but GasCan is on the Cubbies! now and Wickman might not be returning either; so the money in the bullpen isn't poorly spent.

ShoelessJoeS
12-05-2005, 11:40 PM
Just read on Indians mlb web site that Hoffman will be taking a physical tues for Indians and deal is worth 21-23 mil. for 3 years.
From what I remeber, was Hoffman the pitcher that gave up the three-run bomb to Rowand in San Diego? If so, I think the rest of the Sox can take him to the house as he might be past his time. This is a smart move by Cleveland, however, if Wickman is moving on.

Coolpapa
12-06-2005, 01:13 AM
I wish Wickman would stay just to face us, we always murdered him. Hoffman is past his prime. If he wasn't he'd still be in SD. When it comes down to the wire I still believe the tribe will be a non factor. Career years last year won't be matched in '06.

elrod
12-06-2005, 08:54 AM
Is Hoffman any good anymore? He's 38 years old and comes off his worst ERA season since 2001.

Randar68
12-06-2005, 10:00 AM
Is Hoffman any good anymore? He's 38 years old and comes off his worst ERA season since 2001.

Which is one reason why I don't mind the Injuns paying him way too much money for way too long, kinda like Paul freakin Byrd....

The Dude
12-06-2005, 11:23 AM
I wish Wickman would stay just to face us, we always murdered him. Hoffman is past his prime. If he wasn't he'd still be in SD. When it comes down to the wire I still believe the tribe will be a non factor. Career years last year won't be matched in '06.

Well if you consider murder giving up only 1 run(June 5th) against the Sox last year after that April 6th 4ER shelling....then come back Wickman!

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?playerId=2761

munchman33
12-06-2005, 11:28 AM
Well if you consider murder giving up only 1 run(June 5th) against the Sox last year after that April 6th 4ER shelling....then come back Wickman!

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/gamelog?playerId=2761


Yeah, but honestly it's such a small sample size to go on. I mean, Wickman was the closer. And the Injuns weren't really in a position to close out many games against the White Sox. :cool:

The Dude
12-06-2005, 11:33 AM
Yeah, but honestly it's such a small sample size to go on. I mean, Wickman was the closer. And the Injuns weren't really in a position to close out many games against the White Sox. :cool:

Yes this is true...but i just wont mind seeing him off the tribe because hes a pretty damn good closer.

caulfield12
12-06-2005, 12:00 PM
Just read on Indians mlb web site that Hoffman will be taking a physical tues for Indians and deal is worth 21-23 mil. for 3 years.

This is great for the White Sox....they have guaranteed that they have no shot at getting Millwood now, either the money or the years Boras will ask for.

Theyīre replacing their 3 starter with a 4-5 and still missing a 5 in Elarton, which is definitely a net positive for the Sox.

Sabathia can improve again, but I donīt expect Lee to repeat last seasonīs success...but maybe he will end up being very solid each season, like M. Buehrle.

Thereīs no way you can see that they have improved since the end of last season.

Flight #24
12-06-2005, 12:31 PM
So, recapping their offseason, the Indians have:

1) Replaced their closer with a guy who's better, but given that Wickman had a pretty incredible year (fluke, IMO), hard to say they can expect Hoffman to do better. Given age, injury history, etc - he could easily do worse. -->No net impact on the field

2) Lost their key middle reliever in Howry, so far have to replace him internally -->Likely net loss

3) Replaced their #1 pitcher with a decent #4 -->Significant net loss

4) Lost their #5 pitcher, who had a pretty incredible year for a #5 -->Significant net loss

And the financial impact of 1 & 3 is that they'll likely have a tough time replacing #4. Although there's word they're in on Javier Vazquez, which would probably make their offseason net even since they'd replace Millwood&Elarton&Wickman with Vazquez&Byrd&Hoffman.

So they're running in place. Meanwhile the Sox are improving. So unless they get some pretty serious improvement and/or the Sox have some pretty serious regression on the mound, they're still looking at the Sox from behind.

caulfield12
12-06-2005, 01:52 PM
So, recapping their offseason, the Indians have:

1) Replaced their closer with a guy who's better, but given that Wickman had a pretty incredible year (fluke, IMO), hard to say they can expect Hoffman to do better. Given age, injury history, etc - he could easily do worse. -->No net impact on the field

2) Lost their key middle reliever in Howry, so far have to replace him internally -->Likely net loss

3) Replaced their #1 pitcher with a decent #4 -->Significant net loss

4) Lost their #5 pitcher, who had a pretty incredible year for a #5 -->Significant net loss

And the financial impact of 1 & 3 is that they'll likely have a tough time replacing #4. Although there's word they're in on Javier Vazquez, which would probably make their offseason net even since they'd replace Millwood&Elarton&Wickman with Vazquez&Byrd&Hoffman.

So they're running in place. Meanwhile the Sox are improving. So unless they get some pretty serious improvement and/or the Sox have some pretty serious regression on the mound, they're still looking at the Sox from behind.

Millwood and Westbrook were very good in 2005, but I think every GM in baseball would still take Sabathia and Lee over them if they were trading the same talent and could pick any of the four in return. Millwood would be third and Westbrook fourth IMO.

I just donīt think they have enough money to afford Vazquez, too.

They are going to jump from $42 to $60 million in payroll like that, after one week.

Elarton $850,000
Wickman $2,750,000
Millwood $7,000,000

Hoffman $7,500,000
Byrd $7,000,000
Vazquez $11,000,000
still have to replace Howry

Thatīs an increase of $15 million in one week. Donīt think Cleveland ownership has the guts to do it.

Flight #24
12-06-2005, 02:14 PM
Millwood and Westbrook were very good in 2005, but I think every GM in baseball would still take Sabathia and Lee over them if they were trading the same talent and could pick any of the four in return. Millwood would be third and Westbrook fourth IMO.



Regardless, they lost a #1 (or strong #2) caliber pitcher, at least based on 2005 performance, as well as a very strong #5, and currently have replaced them with a strong #3/4.

ChiSoxIn06
12-06-2005, 06:13 PM
They still have Travis Hafner who is making a career out of killing the Sox (remind you of Thome?). Looks like Buerhle will just have to peg him in the face again.

elrod
12-06-2005, 07:28 PM
The problem for Cleveland is that their hitters are too one-dimensional. They had one of the worst one-run-game records in Cleveland Indian history last year - and the Indians have put up some awful teams over the years. They were 93-69 overall, yet 22-36 in one-run games. That's astounding. How does a team with the best bullpen in baseball lose so many one-run games? Because they don't manufacture runs. Ever. Their manager may be to blame too, but outside Victor Martinez in the 2nd half, their whole lineup is filled with HR or nothing guys like Broussard, Blake, Crisp, Belliard and Boone. Even Sizemore tried to act like he was some sort of slugger, and that hurt the team. For about two months, the hitters were locked in and mashing the ball. But when they hit a slump, they really fell in the toilet.

I think their pitching will still be fine. Byrd is not as good as Millwood, but he's a gamer. Fernando Cabrera is ready to replace Bob Howry in the pen. Hoffman is a step down from Wickman, unless he can reverse his late-career swoon.

Optipessimism
12-06-2005, 10:34 PM
were 93-69 overall, yet 22-36 in one-run games. That's astounding. How does a team with the best bullpen in baseball lose so many one-run games? Because they don't manufacture runs. Ever. Their manager may be to blame too, but outside Victor Martinez in the 2nd half, their whole lineup is filled with HR or nothing guys like Broussard, Blake, Crisp, Belliard and Boone. Even Sizemore tried to act like he was some sort of slugger, and that hurt the team. For about two months, the hitters were locked in and mashing the ball. But when they hit a slump, they really fell in the toilet.

I'm with you there. Look at the last few teams who have won the World Series: Angels in '02, Marlins in '03, Red Sox in '04, us in '05. See a pattern here? Besides pitching and defense, only ONE of these last four championship teams did not play a lot of 'small/smart/Ozzieball.' The Red Sox slugged, but they had the starting pitching to do so. They got hot at the right time and that made the difference, but the Angels, Marlins, and Sox could beat you even in the middle of a slump because they knew how to play.

If Cleveland EVER wants to be a player they are going to have to make use out of their top of the order. Their bottom of the order needs to move runners over and hit sac flies. Watching them swing for the fences and choke while the Sox were throwing a bunch of AAA players at them should make any Tribe fan realize this, so the organization HAS to know. But will they do anything about it?