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View Full Version : Stark: Sox one of three teams most agressive for Pierre


MERPER
12-05-2005, 03:37 PM
I have been told by some good sources that their interest ended when they re-signed Konerko... but if you go to espn.com, Jayson Stark says the teams most interested are the Cubs, White Sox and Rangers.... (it's an insider article which is why I am not providing a link)

He claims Marlins have asked Cubs for Pie (a dealbreaker) and the Rangers for one of their top pitching prospects that they are highly unlikely to give up...

Meanwhile, they have asked the Sox for EITHER McCarthy or Chris Young... I am content going into spring training letting Owens and Anderson battle it out for CF... but if all it takes to get Pierre is Young and we are so loaded with outfield prospects...

I say pull the trigger.. Young for Pierre :bandance: :bandance: :bandance:

He's Not a Blum
12-05-2005, 03:43 PM
No way do you part with argubly our most talented minor league prospect for Pierre. Young has the potential to be an All-Star, and it's looking like Pierre may now be on downside of his career. The only one of our outifield prospects I wouldn't mind them dealing for Pierre is Ryan Sweeney, and even that's debatable.

na_na_na_na
12-05-2005, 03:46 PM
Highly doubt they would deal Young or Owens for Pierre. Both these guys are looking to be total studs when they reach the majors.

bobowhite
12-05-2005, 03:47 PM
Interest: marginal, at best.

Likelihood of trading a stud: Not in this lifetime.

caulfield12
12-05-2005, 03:48 PM
Highly doubt they would deal Young or Owens for Pierre. Both these guys are looking to be total studs when they reach the majors.

Still, Owens might be the guy they would be most willing to deal out of the four...it would be between him and Sweeney, but Sweeney still might have a higher upside than Anderson.

JermaineDye05
12-05-2005, 03:49 PM
alls I have to say is enjoy having pierre roaming center marlins, cause you're not gonna get rid of him with those demands unless you talked to the mets

Optipessimism
12-05-2005, 06:11 PM
Young for Pierre? Are you crazy? KW would never be dumb enough to do that.

You suggest we trade our top postion player prospect - a true CF who is already better in the field than Pierre and who may be able to contribute as early as late 2006 depending on what he does in ST and the minors - for a one year rental of a LESSER player at the SAME POSITION who is making millions more and coming off a down year?

Here, put this on...
http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:aHd7zXKWRDwJ:www.cpsc.gov/kids/bbman_la.gif (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.cpsc.gov/kids/bbman_la.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.cpsc.gov/kids/bb.html&h=269&w=257&sz=11&tbnid=aHd7zXKWRDwJ:&tbnh=108&tbnw=103&hl=en&start=17&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbrain%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D)

Tragg
12-05-2005, 06:29 PM
I say pull the trigger.. Young for Pierre :bandance: :bandance: :bandance:

And that would be one of the worst trades in Sox history.

Jjav829
12-05-2005, 09:58 PM
According to Jayson Stark's latest info:

DALLAS -- Next Fish to get tossed out of the Marlins' boat? Looks like Juan Pierre. According to clubs that have spoken with the Marlins, Florida is stepping up its efforts to move Pierre, now that Paul Lo Duca's ticket to New York has been booked.

The Cubs, White Sox and Rangers appear to be the three most aggressive teams in the Pierre hunt. But the Dodgers, Tigers, Nationals and a half-dozen other teams have at least kicked Pierre's tires.
.....

And from the White Sox, it's believed the Marlins have asked for either pitcher Brandon McCarthy or hot outfield prospect Chris Young.


"Somebody is going to have to move a hell of a [young player] to get this guy," said an official of one team involved in these discussions. "If not, there are so many teams, somebody else will give up that [kind of player]."


If that's the price; no thanks. :o:

spawn
12-05-2005, 10:01 PM
I trust KW...I hope he just says no. Let the Flubs have him. We definitely don't need him or his weak arm in center.

oeo
12-05-2005, 10:07 PM
I trust KW...I hope he just says no. Let the Flubs have him. We definitely don't need him or his weak arm in center.

Yeah, two weak arms in the outfield? What happened to pitching AND defense? They won it last year...blegh

MERPER
12-05-2005, 10:29 PM
I realize that Young is a major prospect but KW has always operated under the "your farm system is used to build the ML team" motto...

Young might be great, but Pierre and Pods at the top of the order would make our offense nearly unstoppable...

If either get on, which is bound to happen every trip through it spells hell for opposing pitchers and if both get on it spells disaster as they enter the Dye-Konerko-Thome part of the order....

We all were aware that Jeremy Reed was our top prospect and look what he's doing... With Sweeney, Owens and Anderson... Young becomes expendable and I hear he's still a year or two away anyhow!!!

KW wants to win now and take a national spotlight for good!

munchman33
12-05-2005, 10:34 PM
There isn't room for Chris Young, Brian Anderson, Jerry Owens, and Ryan Sweeney. And none of them are sure things. If you're saying you wouldn't trade only one of them, even if it is Young, for sure production in our title defense next year, well then :rolleyes: .

Banix12
12-05-2005, 10:48 PM
There isn't room for Chris Young, Brian Anderson, Jerry Owens, and Ryan Sweeney. And none of them are sure things. If you're saying you wouldn't trade only one of them, even if it is Young, for sure production in our title defense next year, well then :rolleyes: .

One of the other three I would consider it, but I'm really not keen on the idea of trading young anywhere right now though.

I trust KW and if the sox get Pierre then I just know that he hasn't reached a point where he trusts any of the prospects yet.

Banix12
12-05-2005, 10:54 PM
I realize that Young is a major prospect but KW has always operated under the "your farm system is used to build the ML team" motto...

Young might be great, but Pierre and Pods at the top of the order would make our offense nearly unstoppable...

If either get on, which is bound to happen every trip through it spells hell for opposing pitchers and if both get on it spells disaster as they enter the Dye-Konerko-Thome part of the order....

We all were aware that Jeremy Reed was our top prospect and look what he's doing... With Sweeney, Owens and Anderson... Young becomes expendable and I hear he's still a year or two away anyhow!!!

KW wants to win now and take a national spotlight for good!

IMO, Young is really the top prize of the 4 OF prospects. Young is likely the least expendable of the four and I would have to be getting back a hell of a lot more back. If it was Pierre for Owens, I might pull the trigger on that one. Not so much on Young.

MRKARNO
12-05-2005, 10:59 PM
Young or McCarthy for Pierre? :kneeslap::kneeslap:

Both have significantly more value to this organization than Pierre could ever have. If McCarthy pitches the way I think he can next year, he will be more valuable to a team than Pierre was at any point during his career. Young should also be kept because he may turn out really good or may be useful in trading for a significant player (which Pierre is not, but Garcia was in 2004).

oeo
12-05-2005, 11:08 PM
There isn't room for Chris Young, Brian Anderson, Jerry Owens, and Ryan Sweeney. And none of them are sure things. If you're saying you wouldn't trade only one of them, even if it is Young, for sure production in our title defense next year, well then :rolleyes: .

Sure production? There is no such thing as sure production...anything can happen at any time.

And let me remind you, we won with pitching and defense last year. Pierre is hardly the defensive center fielder that Rowand was. I don't see what you see in this guy...you think he's the answer to another championship? The speed at the top of the lineup is nice and all, but from the defensive perspective, I don't think it's worth it at all.

Lip Man 1
12-05-2005, 11:10 PM
I thought one of the worst trades in Sox history was when they shipped out Reed and Olivo?

Lip

gr8mexico
12-05-2005, 11:38 PM
Sure production? There is no such thing as sure production...anything can happen at any time.

And let me remind you, we won with pitching and defense last year. Pierre is hardly the defensive center fielder that Rowand was. I don't see what you see in this guy...you think he's the answer to another championship? The speed at the top of the lineup is nice and all, but from the defensive perspective, I don't think it's worth it at all. Pierre doesn't have the arm strength Rowand has but he does hustle and get to the ball alot faster then Rowand. But if the Sox had to give Young I would hope that the Sox can get more then just Pierre like Ron Villone or Jason Vargas

Erik The Red
12-06-2005, 12:06 AM
Consider the source. Jayson Stark? Puh-leeze.

Ron Karkovice
12-06-2005, 12:21 AM
I thought one of the worst trades in Sox history was when they shipped out Reed and Olivo?

Lip

yeah how do we know young won't turn out to be a borchard?

Banix12
12-06-2005, 12:49 AM
yeah how do we know young won't turn out to be a borchard?

You don't know. It's a risk you take with prospects. Certainly he could plateau at AAA the way Borchard did, there is always a chance of that.

Though I usually don't like to compare players like this. Every player is their own individual with their own development. Borchard's development is completely unrelated to Young's.

MERPER
12-06-2005, 01:17 AM
All I am saying is that I am surprised there is still interest on the Sox part and if it only takes Young I'd be willing to gamble...

The only think that concerns me about Pierre is his arm, but with Pods and Pierre speed and Dye's gold glove ability I don't see many balls getting down and behind the outfielders...

Anderson is getting nationally recognized as a legit talent (see Gammons comments today) and Ozzie sees something special in this kid Owens, who can run and hit...

Say Young continues to succeed but is, in fact, 2 years away.... we MAY have 1 OF spot open... but you still have the potential of a guy like Sweeney, another player who develops and future picks as well...

For the best chance of back-to-back titles I'd take my chance if Young got the deal done... and maybe they'd throw in a lefty bullpen guy so we can get rid of Marte's salary...

munchman33
12-06-2005, 05:21 AM
Sure production? There is no such thing as sure production...anything can happen at any time.

And let me remind you, we won with pitching and defense last year. Pierre is hardly the defensive center fielder that Rowand was. I don't see what you see in this guy...you think he's the answer to another championship? The speed at the top of the lineup is nice and all, but from the defensive perspective, I don't think it's worth it at all.

Ugh. The next person time someone reminds me of Aaron Rowand's stellar defensive coverage in CF I think I'm gonna shoot myself. No way he covers the ground Pierre does. What good is an arm if you're diving and lunging for balls all the time?

oeo
12-06-2005, 06:56 AM
Ugh. The next person time someone reminds me of Aaron Rowand's stellar defensive coverage in CF I think I'm gonna shoot myself. No way he covers the ground Pierre does. What good is an arm if you're diving and lunging for balls all the time?

So the reason Pierre covers more ground is because he dives and lunges for the ball? The next person that tells me that Pierre is everything short of the next Messiah, I'm going to shoot myself.

So, since your diving and "lunging" for balls all over the place...you don't need an arm? Why are the two even in the same sentence?

Rowand didn't have stellar defense? How's that, he's one of the better defensive outfielders in my book, whether he takes bad routes or not...he deserved a Gold Glove.

I still don't believe that Pierre is that great defensively, speed isn't everything; Podsednik has already shown us that.

Exit_Only
12-06-2005, 07:08 AM
I don't want Pierre because we already have a leadoff hitter, and I don't see the value in two leadoff hitters. I think the Sox get much more production from Iguchi in the 2 hole than Pierre would give.

Let the Cubs give up Pie and Hill for Pierre.

caulfield12
12-06-2005, 07:25 AM
All I am saying is that I am surprised there is still interest on the Sox part and if it only takes Young I'd be willing to gamble...

The only think that concerns me about Pierre is his arm, but with Pods and Pierre speed and Dye's gold glove ability I don't see many balls getting down and behind the outfielders...

Anderson is getting nationally recognized as a legit talent (see Gammons comments today) and Ozzie sees something special in this kid Owens, who can run and hit...

Say Young continues to succeed but is, in fact, 2 years away.... we MAY have 1 OF spot open... but you still have the potential of a guy like Sweeney, another player who develops and future picks as well...

For the best chance of back-to-back titles I'd take my chance if Young got the deal done... and maybe they'd throw in a lefty bullpen guy so we can get rid of Marte's salary...


Young is the best suited of the four to play CF. Anderson and Owens could play CF, but not as well IMO. Sweeney is definitely a RF...and I think Anderson is mostly to end up on the corners as well, as long as he hits for enough power.

Young is untradeable for a couple of reasons....

1) He would be a six year option for the Sox at low salaries in CF, balancing money we would have to pay Contreras and-or Garland
2) Heīs a rare combo threat with stolen bases and power...there are not very many outfielders like that around anymore
3) Heīs the most natural CF they have, ahead of Anderson from all accounts, although not quite the arm strength as Brian

If we were to take a chance on a Pierre-Winn-Gathwright-Bradley-Patterson type of player, it would only be for one season...and it does not make a whole lot of sense to mortgage the future for a one year rental. Only if they accepted Owens would it make sense...

Owens and Pods probably are not going to be in the same outfield...but, if they are, it wouldnīt be much of a difference between Pods and Pierre with the exception that the White Sox defense would be a little better with Pods-Owens and the offense more dangerous with the experience and offensive talents of Pierre and Pods.

But it would also cost us talent and $4-5 million more in payroll. We are not going to give up Sweeney or Owens and Cotts to get a Pierre.

batmanZoSo
12-06-2005, 07:40 AM
There isn't room for Chris Young, Brian Anderson, Jerry Owens, and Ryan Sweeney. And none of them are sure things. If you're saying you wouldn't trade only one of them, even if it is Young, for sure production in our title defense next year, well then :rolleyes: .

Right, I wouldn't do McCarthy, but I'd give them Young in a heartbeat. It's called dealing from your strengths. Not all four of those prospects are going to be something--and as always, none are guaranteed to be anything--so at least one or even two of them has to be traded at some time to get you some major league talent so they at least produce some value for you in the long run. That's the way I look at it. I'm not one who favors going crazy with trades at all, but Pierre for a good outfield prospect is reasonable in my book. And I don't see how Anderson is going to cover more ground than Pierre out there anyway, so I don't buy the loss of defense argument. Sure, we'd have a weak arm in center, but we'd have two Podsedniks in the lineup and we saw how big having just Podsednik was. Not to mention this guy has hit as high as a .326 clip and with changing leagues, he could take the new league by storm and have an Ichiro-like year (at least with BA) especially batting in front of Thome.

dickallen15
12-06-2005, 08:09 AM
The White Sox being one of the most aggressive teams trying to acquire Pierre is shocking considering KW said yesterday he has not called Florida once on Pierre. The White Sox are not interested, and are probably even less than not interested if the price is McCarthy or Young.

Frater Perdurabo
12-06-2005, 08:11 AM
I would not give up Young or McCarthy for Pierre.

patbooyah
12-06-2005, 08:12 AM
So the reason Pierre covers more ground is because he dives and lunges for the ball? The next person that tells me that Pierre is everything short of the next Messiah, I'm going to shoot myself.

So, since your diving and "lunging" for balls all over the place...you don't need an arm? Why are the two even in the same sentence?

Rowand didn't have stellar defense? How's that, he's one of the better defensive outfielders in my book, whether he takes bad routes or not...he deserved a Gold Glove.

I still don't believe that Pierre is that great defensively, speed isn't everything; Podsednik has already shown us that.

i'm pretty sure that he was saying that rowand didn't cover a lot of ground, thus was diving all the time, thus making his strong arm useless.

he was suggesting that since pierre can stay on his feet, maybe that will negate his lack of arm strength.

didn't ozzie coach pierre? wouldn't he know if pierre was the right thing to do?

Jjav829
12-06-2005, 08:14 AM
There isn't room for Chris Young, Brian Anderson, Jerry Owens, and Ryan Sweeney. And none of them are sure things. If you're saying you wouldn't trade only one of them, even if it is Young, for sure production in our title defense next year, well then :rolleyes: .

Well my reaction was more to the McCarthy part. There's no way in hell I would even consider that for a second. Young...maybe. IMO if Kenny is going to give up one of those outfielders for Pierre it should be Anderson. He is MLB ready right now so the Marlins should have some interest. Anderson makes the most sense because Pierre would take his spot for this year. After 2006 Kenny can decide whether Pierre or Pods should go if he wants to make room for Owens or Young.

Now whether we'd be better off with Pierre or going with Anderson is another story. I don't necessarily believe that Pierre is really needed. I would be comfortable allowing Anderson and Owens to battle it out in spring training. But if one of those outfielders is going to go for Pierre I think it should be Anderson.

thewalkoffshot
12-06-2005, 08:15 AM
So the reason Pierre covers more ground is because he dives and lunges for the ball? The next person that tells me that Pierre is everything short of the next Messiah, I'm going to shoot myself.

So, since your diving and "lunging" for balls all over the place...you don't need an arm? Why are the two even in the same sentence?

Rowand didn't have stellar defense? How's that, he's one of the better defensive outfielders in my book, whether he takes bad routes or not...he deserved a Gold Glove.

I still don't believe that Pierre is that great defensively, speed isn't everything; Podsednik has already shown us that.

I believe he means that Rowand is diving and lunging all over for the ball. Which enables him to no longer make the play that he could with his arm, because he cant throw it while lying on his stomach. Pierre gets to the ball faster, therefore, no longer has to dive for a ball that he can get while standing on his feet enabling him to throw the ball as soon as he gets it. Then he can throw it to Uribe to rifle it around the infield.

Jjav829
12-06-2005, 08:16 AM
I have been told by some good sources that their interest ended when they re-signed Konerko... but if you go to espn.com, Jayson Stark says the teams most interested are the Cubs, White Sox and Rangers.... (it's an insider article which is why I am not providing a link)

He claims Marlins have asked Cubs for Pie (a dealbreaker) and the Rangers for one of their top pitching prospects that they are highly unlikely to give up...

Meanwhile, they have asked the Sox for EITHER McCarthy or Chris Young... I am content going into spring training letting Owens and Anderson battle it out for CF... but if all it takes to get Pierre is Young and we are so loaded with outfield prospects...

I say pull the trigger.. Young for Pierre :bandance: :bandance: :bandance:

Wow...how did I miss this thread...:redface:

munchman33
12-06-2005, 09:56 AM
Well my reaction was more to the McCarthy part. There's no way in hell I would even consider that for a second. Young...maybe. IMO if Kenny is going to give up one of those outfielders for Pierre it should be Anderson. He is MLB ready right now so the Marlins should have some interest. Anderson makes the most sense because Pierre would take his spot for this year. After 2006 Kenny can decide whether Pierre or Pods should go if he wants to make room for Owens or Young.

Now whether we'd be better off with Pierre or going with Anderson is another story. I don't necessarily believe that Pierre is really needed. I would be comfortable allowing Anderson and Owens to battle it out in spring training. But if one of those outfielders is going to go for Pierre I think it should be Anderson.

I agree, definately not McCarthy. And Anderson would be my first choice to ship out. But honestly, if they'd take any one of those outfielders straight up, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

munchman33
12-06-2005, 09:59 AM
So the reason Pierre covers more ground is because he dives and lunges for the ball? The next person that tells me that Pierre is everything short of the next Messiah, I'm going to shoot myself.

So, since your diving and "lunging" for balls all over the place...you don't need an arm? Why are the two even in the same sentence?

Rowand didn't have stellar defense? How's that, he's one of the better defensive outfielders in my book, whether he takes bad routes or not...he deserved a Gold Glove.

I still don't believe that Pierre is that great defensively, speed isn't everything; Podsednik has already shown us that.

You completely misread that. Rowand's arm is not used much, because he's usually diving and lunging when he catches the ball. He's not in a good position to make a throw anyways. Whereas a guy like Pierre rarely has to dive or lunge, because he simply glides to the ball under his great speed. Really, its a defensive wash.

And if you're gonna argue that Rowand's the better offensive player.....:rolleyes:

D. TODD
12-06-2005, 10:03 AM
The Palm Beach Post claims the Cubs and Rangers are close to acquiring Pierre. Cub deal includes Jerome Williams, Todd Wellmeyer, Sergio Mitre, and some kid named Nolasco. Rangers mentioned Lance Nix, but were reluctant to include their top pitching prospect (I did not catch his name).

patbooyah
12-06-2005, 10:06 AM
You completely misread that. Rowand's arm is not used much, because he's usually diving and lunging when he catches the ball. He's not in a good position to make a throw anyways. Whereas a guy like Pierre rarely has to dive or lunge, because he simply glides to the ball under his great speed. Really, its a defensive wash.

And if you're gonna argue that Rowand's the better offensive player.....:rolleyes:

don't you hate when people have such condescending posts, are totally wrong, and don't admit to it? :cool:

munchman33
12-06-2005, 10:26 AM
don't you hate when people have such condescending posts, are totally wrong, and don't admit to it? :cool:

LOL Yeah. I'm sure I've been guilty of that on more than one occassion. :redface:

Flight #24
12-06-2005, 10:28 AM
Right, I wouldn't do McCarthy, but I'd give them Young in a heartbeat. It's called dealing from your strengths. Not all four of those prospects are going to be something--and as always, none are guaranteed to be anything--so at least one or even two of them has to be traded at some time to get you some major league talent so they at least produce some value for you in the long run. That's the way I look at it. I'm not one who favors going crazy with trades at all, but Pierre for a good outfield prospect is reasonable in my book. And I don't see how Anderson is going to cover more ground than Pierre out there anyway, so I don't buy the loss of defense argument. Sure, we'd have a weak arm in center, but we'd have two Podsedniks in the lineup and we saw how big having just Podsednik was. Not to mention this guy has hit as high as a .326 clip and with changing leagues, he could take the new league by storm and have an Ichiro-like year (at least with BA) especially batting in front of Thome.

I look at the depth issue differently. You keep the best of that group and deal off the rest, unless you're getting a serious impact player. Young has the power/speed combo to be a cheap monster, and do it while playing an excellent defensive CF, which is normally not an offensive position. Thus, if you think he can actually fulfill that potential, you hold onto him dearly. Same with McCarthy, who's already shown flashes of dominance at the most critical position on the team - SP. Both are also likely to be contributors in the next 12-15 months.

Which makes Anderson, Owens, Sweeney available in my book. But not for Pierre. To me, a lineup with Podsednik and Pierre is a little too popgun for my tastes and risks giving us as unbalanced a lineup as in 2004, but the other way with too little power but tons of speed. Balance is the key. I'd rather stick with Anderson and his 15-20 SB potential but also his 20HR potential or just go with Owens and his 50SB potential than deal for Pierre.

patbooyah
12-06-2005, 10:32 AM
LOL Yeah. I'm sure I've been guilty of that on more than one occassion. :redface:

yeah, me too.

there's a small chance that sometimes i purposely avoid threads where i know i've been wrong.... :D:

Tragg
12-06-2005, 12:07 PM
I realize that Young is a major prospect but KW has always operated under the "your farm system is used to build the ML team" motto...

Young might be great, but Pierre and Pods at the top of the order would make our offense nearly unstoppable...

Pierre isn't near the offensive force that is claimed (he can't walk and has zero power) and an outfield of pods/pierre would be brutal defensively.

Yes Anderson is tradaeable - but good gracious, not for the likes of Juan PIerre.

Baby Fisk
12-06-2005, 12:12 PM
Young might be great, but Pierre and Pods at the top of the order would make our offense nearly unstoppable...

But at the same time two weak OF arms makes things uncomfortably porous out there. Do we want to go back to the days of 14-11 scores every day?

Just say no to Pierre.

maurice
12-06-2005, 12:33 PM
[Young]īs the most natural CF they have, ahead of Anderson from all accounts

What accounts are you referring to? IIRC, random mediots have claimed that Anderson is a corner OF, but KW recently pointed out that this is BS. Young is good defensively, but Anderson probably is the best defensive OF in the system. The only way that he plays a corner is if the other 2 starting OFs lack the arm to play RF.

spongyfungy
12-07-2005, 03:38 PM
Ken Williams : I haven't talked to Beinfest since the Winter meetings. I sat next to Hendry and he didn't mention anything to me about the Pierre deal