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View Full Version : Marlins Firesale Continues


infohawk
12-05-2005, 11:08 AM
My apologies if this has already been posted. I didn't see it anywhere. The Marlins have supposedly traded catcher Paul Lo Duca to the Mets.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2247973

Baby Fisk
12-05-2005, 11:14 AM
Multi-page thread on this deal already.

However, I just wanted to toss something out for discussion: at what point should MLB decide that a firesale like this one is bad for one of its franchises, and on a larger scale bad for the game? The Florida franchise (world champions 2 years ago) is being dismantled. This hurts the fans of an already struggling franchise, one that is now also threatening to relocate.

At what point should MLB intervene and say "That's enough. This firesale ends now."? IS THERE EVER such a point? Can the Marlins dismantle however they please, fans be damned?

Fenway
12-05-2005, 11:19 AM
Multi-page thread on this deal already.


At what point should MLB intervene and say "That's enough. This firesale ends now."? IS THERE EVER such a point? Can the Marlins dismantle however they please, fans be damned?

Selig gave his blessing for them to explore relocation and for payroll to be in line with revenue.

In 2006 they may have crowds that will make the Expos situation look good.

pythons007
12-05-2005, 11:39 AM
If I were a Marlin player I would want out of south Florida too. The fans suck out there. After winning the World Series in 97 and 03, they have no fan base and can't get any help with building a new stadium. This franchise would be better in a different place.

SoxSpeed22
12-05-2005, 12:08 PM
If I were a Marlin player I would want out of south Florida too. The fans suck out there. After winning the World Series in 97 and 03, they have no fan base and can't get any help with building a new stadium. This franchise would be better in a different place.I can't say, I blame them. They saw the Fish buy a title and then see the team get blown up as quickly as it was built. The ones that came back in '03 are seeing the same thing now. As for the stadium, the increased frequency of hurricanes has made it a lot more difficult. The Marlins are easily the most dysfunctional organization in baseball and maybe if the '93 expansion team was awarded to Buffalo, "blockbuster" Huizenga and Loria wouldn't have gotten their hands on them and maybe the organization would be much more stable than it is now.

Ol' No. 2
12-05-2005, 12:32 PM
Jeffery Loria = Rachel Phelps

MUsoxfan
12-05-2005, 12:36 PM
Jeffery Loria = Rachel Phelps

I don't think Girardi can use the same "motivational technique" to give Florida that push towards the playoffs:wink:

WestSox
12-05-2005, 01:15 PM
I can't say, I blame them. They saw the Fish buy a title and then see the team get blown up as quickly as it was built. The ones that came back in '03 are seeing the same thing now.

The problem with that last statement is that the fans never came back after '97. Even after winning their second WS in their 11 years of existence and keeping most of the team intact, their fan support was still relatively poor:

'03: 1.3 million, 16,290 avg. (28th) - Team went 91-71
'04: 1.7 million, 22,000 avg. (27th) - Team went 83-79
'05: 1.8 million, 23,000 avg. (28th) - Team went 83-79

Sox attendance jumped 400,000 (from 1.92 million to 2.34 million) from '04 to this year and I'd expect them to go over 2.5 million next year. I don't know what the Marlins "fans" want, but at least the apathetic Sox fans get their rear ends to the ballpark when their team began playing well again.

South Florida does nothing to support its baseball teams. I don't blame the Marlins front office for getting out of there.

longshot7
12-05-2005, 02:25 PM
The problem with that last statement is that the fans never came back after '97. Even after winning their second WS in their 11 years of existence and keeping most of the team intact, their fan support was still relatively poor:

South Florida does nothing to support its baseball teams. I don't blame the Marlins front office for getting out of there.

Their fan support seemed pretty good in 03 when our site and one of theirs teamed up to hate the cubs.

It's sad.

soxfanreggie
12-05-2005, 03:11 PM
Marlins have about 11 new prospects and like $28 million less in payroll. However, if I were a player on their team, I would want to get the heck out of dodge. There is a problem when you get rid of almost all your top players and have no plans to do anything to help them. There is a problem if you are constantly doing this though. Why not just give the Mets or Yankees your entire team and ask for millions in return.

SoxEd
12-05-2005, 03:35 PM
These owners put the Expos in the toilet/treated the franchise and its fans like you-know-what, and now they're killing the Fish too?

And Bud's letting them?

IMO it gives 'MLB Inc' a bad name - this ownership team should be stripped of their franchise and shown the door - they're clearly not owning teams for the Love of the Game, or with the Game's best interests at heart - they're just cynical money-driven shysters. (I know, I know, quelle surprise...)

Now, I'm only a relative newcomer to the Sport, and a dumb foreigner to boot, but I thought that Major League Baseball had a kind of supreme officer called, IIRC, 'the Commissioner' to prevent these kind of disreputable shenanigans from happening even once, let alone twice.

Say it ain't So, Mr. Selig, Say It Ain't So...

Ol' No. 2
12-05-2005, 03:50 PM
Didn't we have a poll here last summer asking "If the Sox won just one World Series, would you be content to have the team stink for the next 5 years?" I seem to recall a sizable number of "yes" responses.

Baby Fisk
12-05-2005, 03:56 PM
Didn't we have a poll here last summer asking "If the Sox won just one World Series, would you be content to have the team stink for the next 5 years?" I seem to recall a sizable number of "yes" responses.
Those were desperate times, Mr. Fox. I prolly offered up my firstborn, my Jeep, my condo, and my impressive collection of Doctor Who DVDs to the Unseen Forces in exchange for one World Series. Since we have a great shot at a second one, why settle? Greed is good! Go Kenny go! :cool:

ode to veeck
12-05-2005, 04:56 PM
Multi-page thread on this deal already.

However, I just wanted to toss something out for discussion: at what point should MLB decide that a firesale like this one is bad for one of its franchises, and on a larger scale bad for the game? The Florida franchise (world champions 2 years ago) is being dismantled. This hurts the fans of an already struggling franchise, one that is now also threatening to relocate.

At what point should MLB intervene and say "That's enough. This firesale ends now."? IS THERE EVER such a point? Can the Marlins dismantle however they please, fans be damned?

Never gonna happen with the spineless wonder of a commissioner MLB currently has

peeonwrigley
12-05-2005, 05:39 PM
Jeffery Loria = Rachel Phelps

Beat you to this one yesterday :cool:

linky (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=957466&postcount=51)

Brian26
12-05-2005, 09:24 PM
Didn't we have a poll here last summer asking "If the Sox won just one World Series, would you be content to have the team stink for the next 5 years?" I seem to recall a sizable number of "yes" responses.

It'd be one thing if the team lost on its own terms. It's hard to repeat with the same group of guys, let alone stripping all of the talent off the major league roster before Opening Day. I feel bad for Marlin fans because the organization is waving the white towel before the season even starts.

beckett21
12-05-2005, 09:42 PM
Multi-page thread on this deal already.

However, I just wanted to toss something out for discussion: at what point should MLB decide that a firesale like this one is bad for one of its franchises, and on a larger scale bad for the game? The Florida franchise (world champions 2 years ago) is being dismantled. This hurts the fans of an already struggling franchise, one that is now also threatening to relocate.

At what point should MLB intervene and say "That's enough. This firesale ends now."? IS THERE EVER such a point? Can the Marlins dismantle however they please, fans be damned?

I've been thinking the same thing for awhile now.

There is precedence, as Commissioner Bowie Kuhn voided the sale of Joe Rudi, Rollie Fingers and Vida Blue by A's owner Charlie O. Finley, saying that the sale of his players was *not in the best interests of baseball.* The primary difference is that those were strictly cash transactions, no other players were involved. The principle idea was the same as the current Marlins situation though.

These recent events could certainly be construed as *not in the best interests of baseball*, at least in my mind. I don't see why the Commissioner couldn't step in if he wanted to. But of course, we all know who's pocket(s) he's in, which is why it won't happen. There's more money to be made in a new market, so why on earth should they try to save the Marlins in south Florida? See Expos, Montreal.

I've never really been a salary cap proponent, but this just adds fuel to the fire for the need of some type of cap and/or floor. That, and the need for a real Commissioner rather than a puppet on a string.

Lip Man 1
12-05-2005, 11:05 PM
Beckett:

I seriously doubt you'll ever get either of your two wishes.

Lip

PKalltheway
12-05-2005, 11:39 PM
I can't say, I blame them. They saw the Fish buy a title and then see the team get blown up as quickly as it was built. The ones that came back in '03 are seeing the same thing now. As for the stadium, the increased frequency of hurricanes has made it a lot more difficult. The Marlins are easily the most dysfunctional organization in baseball and maybe if the '93 expansion team was awarded to Buffalo, "blockbuster" Huizenga and Loria wouldn't have gotten their hands on them and maybe the organization would be much more stable than it is now.

Will Buffalo be in the running for the team they couldn't get in 1993?

nccwsfan
12-06-2005, 10:52 AM
Multi-page thread on this deal already.

However, I just wanted to toss something out for discussion: at what point should MLB decide that a firesale like this one is bad for one of its franchises, and on a larger scale bad for the game? The Florida franchise (world champions 2 years ago) is being dismantled. This hurts the fans of an already struggling franchise, one that is now also threatening to relocate.

At what point should MLB intervene and say "That's enough. This firesale ends now."? IS THERE EVER such a point? Can the Marlins dismantle however they please, fans be damned?

Back in the day (70's, 80's) you used to have the commissioner make a decision based on "the best interests of baseball". Since the used car salesman became the owners' mouthpiece I'm afraid those days have gone away for good. :(:

Flight #24
12-06-2005, 11:21 AM
I've been thinking the same thing for awhile now.

There is precedence, as Commissioner Bowie Kuhn voided the sale of Joe Rudi, Rollie Fingers and Vida Blue by A's owner Charlie O. Finley, saying that the sale of his players was *not in the best interests of baseball.* The primary difference is that those were strictly cash transactions, no other players were involved. The principle idea was the same as the current Marlins situation though.

These recent events could certainly be construed as *not in the best interests of baseball*, at least in my mind. I don't see why the Commissioner couldn't step in if he wanted to. But of course, we all know who's pocket(s) he's in, which is why it won't happen. There's more money to be made in a new market, so why on earth should they try to save the Marlins in south Florida? See Expos, Montreal.

I've never really been a salary cap proponent, but this just adds fuel to the fire for the need of some type of cap and/or floor. That, and the need for a real Commissioner rather than a puppet on a string.

Well, can/should the commissioner force teams not to rebuild/reload? Because while the Fish are obviously cutting payroll, they're also doing some pretty serious restocking of the farm system. Where does it end? Can/should the commish also step in when teams trade too many young prospects for old/washed up talent as not being in the "best interests" because it kills the franchise both short and long-term? Or does he need to aply some rule that says "you can only deal 2 high salaried players in any one offseason"?

And more to the point, why should baseball be saved for South Florida? Is there any onus on South Florida to show that it's worthy of having baseball saved for it? Or once a team is there, is it incumbent upon baseball and team management to both keep the team there and to spend like larger/more popular markets?

It's easy to come out and say things like that, but practically, it doesn't make sense. There are many instances where baseball and the commissioner have screwed up, but IMO it's not their fault that Florida isn't turning out to be a strong baseball market. Well, outside of putting the team there in the first place.