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Chicken Dinner
12-05-2005, 12:06 PM
With the starting line pretty much set in stone (with perhaps a slight question mark for CF), and with Widger and Ozuna signed as bench players, who does KW go after to complete the 25 man roster? Pending on how many pitchers we go into next season with (12 or 11), we need another "universal infielder" (Tony G/Blum)type and a solid (not Borchard/Timo type) bench outfielder as bare minimum.

I know bill Mueller's name has been tossed out there as Crede's back-up, but how about the OF slot. Should we try to get Kenny Loften back? He probably woudn't be too expensive as a bench guy.

Thoughts??

mdep524
12-05-2005, 12:27 PM
Should we try to get Kenny Loften back? He probably woudn't be too expensive as a bench guy. :rolling: Please tell me you're kidding. And don't count out Borchard as a 4th OF just yet.

RallyBowl
12-05-2005, 12:58 PM
:rolling: Please tell me you're kidding. And don't count out Borchard as a 4th OF just yet.

Borchard is as good as gone, IMO. I say Widge, Pablo, Meuller, Timo, and Frank.

caulfield12
12-05-2005, 01:12 PM
With the starting line pretty much set in stone (with perhaps a slight question mark for CF), and with Widger and Ozuna signed as bench players, who does KW go after to complete the 25 man roster? Pending on how many pitchers we go into next season with (12 or 11), we need another "universal infielder" (Tony G/Blum)type and a solid (not Borchard/Timo type) bench outfielder as bare minimum.

I know bill Mueller's name has been tossed out there as Crede's back-up, but how about the OF slot. Should we try to get Kenny Loften back? He probably woudn't be too expensive as a bench guy.

Thoughts??


We could look at someone like Dave Bradley, who will be out in San Diego.

Right now....

Widger
Ozuna
Perez-Borchard
Alex Cintron or Juan Castro of Minnesota type....White Sox prefer a LH hitting infielder than can play 3B, but Mueller won´t sign if we cannot guarantee 400 to 450 plate appearances
Thomas, Willie Harris...who knows what will happen here

lostletters
12-05-2005, 03:57 PM
Well I do not expect Borchard back. He is a shakey fielder. With two fielders of centerfield quality competing for the starting job, why not give the loser the backup prize of being the bench OF.
I will say the person who does not get the starting CF job between Owen (?) and Anderson will probably end up being the fourth outfielder. I think the OF positions outside of Pods and Dye will be coming from our farm system. Which is not a bad thing, keeping some young faces on a team prevents Yankee-itis. There is no shame in having young players, even when you are world series champs. To many veterens can result in a lethargic team.

Then there is the utility infielder. How this will work out is anybodies guess.

BV2005
12-05-2005, 04:47 PM
IF - Pablo Ozuna, Willie Harris
OF - Owens
C - Widger

DickAllen72
12-05-2005, 05:03 PM
Rob Mackowiak.

Crede_Fan
12-05-2005, 06:22 PM
They will not bring up Owens just to ride the bench.

Optipessimism
12-05-2005, 07:22 PM
Rob Mackowiak.

He would be the crown jewel for our bench. He can play 3B, 1B, and corner OF AND bring power and decent AVG and OBP (for a bench player) from the left side of the plate. He's the type of guy that could fill admirably somewhere for weeks if someone had to go on the DL. But, it would be interesting to see what the Pirates would want for him.

Banix12
12-05-2005, 08:45 PM
Mackowiak would be a good fit, not sure how available he would be, but they were shopping him at the deadline last year. Almost all of the other available utility men that I have seen, at least the ones that would be tolerable for a long stretch of time at 3b, are right handed. Gotta find a lefty and Mackowiak would certainly be nice.

4th OF, anybody but Timo and Borchard, the sox need to wash their hands of both of these guys. I think this one will be solved in spring training or maybe when the list of non-tender free agents comes available. i don't think it will be one of the rookies. I could see a trade happening near the end of spring training to fill this spot.

I see the rest of the bench probably being Ozuna, Widger and I'll say Harris.

The only guys on the FA list who look like they are anywhere even worth a look for the bench (other than Mueller) are maybe Mark Bellhorn as a utility IF and in the OF maybe Orlando Palmeiro and Gabe Kapler. Though I probably wouldn't be making any guarantees to them. With the exception of Palmeiro who will likely get a contract somewhere, I would just try to invite them to camp.

doctor30th
12-05-2005, 11:50 PM
Well for sure Ozuna and Widger. The thing is how many Bench spots will there be. Considering how deep our pitching goes into games I don't think we are going to have 12 pitchers, just 11. Which to me means either El Duque or Marte may not be on the team next year. That leaves 5 bench spots.

Ozuna(SS, 3rd, LF), Widger(C, don't forget 3rd), Harris (2nd, ss, OF) From what we have right now.

Then I think you Give a spring invite and a minor league deal to Chris McGruder cause he might be a nice switch hitting bat off the bench.

Option 1:
Mueller would be ideal but I don't think he's going to get the at bats he wants And Palmeiro would be nice left hand bat, plays all outfield positions and neither of them stikes out alot and both have experience being that guy coming off the bench. What does it cost you Just money no Prospects.
Bench: Ozuna, Widger, Harris (or Owens or McGruder), Mueller, Palmeiro

option 2:

Mackowiak strikes out way to much for me, though he does have alot more versatility (2nd, 3d, corner OF). He would have to be aquired by trade. So maybe EL Duque and 2 prospects for Mackowiak. Do you want to pay that much for him?

If you trade EL Duque for Mackowiak your then going to have to turn around and Send Marte and some Prospects to the Marlins for Villone so you can have a 2nd lefty reliever but one that could do some spot starts or extended relief Which is what El Duque would have to do.
Bench: Ozuna, Widger, Mackawiak, Harris, Owens (or McGruder)

Option 2 could also include a trade for Villone and Pierre it would cost more prospects.

So After all this what conclusions do I have. 1. I don't think Mackowiak is even on the market, though the Pirates are pitching starved. 2. 2 contracts for 2 players is better than all the prospects you would lose in the second option.

so yeah Guess I don't know.

Exit_Only
12-06-2005, 08:53 AM
Well for sure Ozuna and Widger. The thing is how many Bench spots will there be. Considering how deep our pitching goes into games I don't think we are going to have 12 pitchers, just 11. Which to me means either El Duque or Marte may not be on the team next year. That leaves 5 bench spots.

Ozuna(SS, 3rd, LF), Widger(C, don't forget 3rd), Harris (2nd, ss, OF) From what we have right now.

Then I think you Give a spring invite and a minor league deal to Chris McGruder cause he might be a nice switch hitting bat off the bench.

Option 1:
Mueller would be ideal but I don't think he's going to get the at bats he wants And Palmeiro would be nice left hand bat, plays all outfield positions and neither of them stikes out alot and both have experience being that guy coming off the bench. What does it cost you Just money no Prospects.
Bench: Ozuna, Widger, Harris (or Owens or McGruder), Mueller, Palmeiro

option 2:

Mackowiak strikes out way to much for me, though he does have alot more versatility (2nd, 3d, corner OF). He would have to be aquired by trade. So maybe EL Duque and 2 prospects for Mackowiak. Do you want to pay that much for him?

If you trade EL Duque for Mackowiak your then going to have to turn around and Send Marte and some Prospects to the Marlins for Villone so you can have a 2nd lefty reliever but one that could do some spot starts or extended relief Which is what El Duque would have to do.
Bench: Ozuna, Widger, Mackawiak, Harris, Owens (or McGruder)

Option 2 could also include a trade for Villone and Pierre it would cost more prospects.

So After all this what conclusions do I have. 1. I don't think Mackowiak is even on the market, though the Pirates are pitching starved. 2. 2 contracts for 2 players is better than all the prospects you would lose in the second option.

so yeah Guess I don't know.

I like the way you think. I mostly agree with your first option.

Retaining Ozuna is a must, Mueller would be a dream, Mackowiak and Palmeiro are solid options, and I'll throw out one more that I'm not even sure about: Roosevelt Brown. He was in Charlotte last season and hit .306/.375/.488 in 389 at bats. I think he's hungry, still wants to play the game and would have a positive attitude in the clubhouse. Though I don't know if he'd be productive.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Roosevelt%20Brown&pos=LF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=150032

Banix12
12-06-2005, 02:22 PM
I like the way you think. I mostly agree with your first option.

Retaining Ozuna is a must, Mueller would be a dream, Mackowiak and Palmeiro are solid options, and I'll throw out one more that I'm not even sure about: Roosevelt Brown. He was in Charlotte last season and hit .306/.375/.488 in 389 at bats. I think he's hungry, still wants to play the game and would have a positive attitude in the clubhouse. Though I don't know if he'd be productive.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Roosevelt%20Brown&pos=LF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=150032

Brown has been around for awhile now and he was really only adequate at the major league level when he was given the chance. The cubs had him as a backup OF a couple of years ago before he went to Japan.

Anyway, I believe he is a free agent right now. Might be worth an invite to spring training but realistically he might not be much more than a AAA player.

caulfield12
12-06-2005, 02:31 PM
I like the way you think. I mostly agree with your first option.

Retaining Ozuna is a must, Mueller would be a dream, Mackowiak and Palmeiro are solid options, and I'll throw out one more that I'm not even sure about: Roosevelt Brown. He was in Charlotte last season and hit .306/.375/.488 in 389 at bats. I think he's hungry, still wants to play the game and would have a positive attitude in the clubhouse. Though I don't know if he'd be productive.

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/app/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Roosevelt%20Brown&pos=LF&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=150032


Why would a rebuilding Pirates trade away one of their most versatile and popular players for a 40-something El Duque, who will be making $5 million next season? That makes absolutely no sense for the Pirates, unless we ate $2-3 million in salary.

Gavin
12-06-2005, 02:34 PM
Please no Kenny Lofton.

Banix12
12-06-2005, 02:41 PM
Why would a rebuilding Pirates trade away one of their most versatile and popular players for a 40-something El Duque, who will be making $5 million next season? That makes absolutely no sense for the Pirates, unless we ate $2-3 million in salary.

I don't think they would take El Duque, but for a couple decent, not great, prospects I think it would be possible. I think the Pirates are of the belief that Mackowiak probably will never be a regular player and he may have reached his full potential as a utility man. The fact that the Pirates are actively looking around at guys like Bill Mueller and Nomar this offseason to play 3b leads me to believe that. Unless their plan is to stick him full time at a corner OF spot, there really isn't much of a place to put him as a regular if they sign one of these guys. And 1.5 million dollars is probably more than the Pirates want to spend on a utility man.

soxinem1
12-06-2005, 03:01 PM
Joe McEwing (Guillen's type of player), Rich Aurillia (2B,SS,3B with pop as well), Eli Marrero (has some pop), Dave Roberts (speed is intriguing), and Greg Colbrunn (can hit in any role) are all posible guys.

I also think Borchard should be given a shot, he had a good spring last year and looked decent last September.

Ross Gload is also a good choice, and may be better than any other back ups available. Can play 1B, LF, or RF.

We should also think of the bullpen. Remember, we had three guys (Politte, Hermanson, Cotts) have career years and nothing in Cliff and Hermie's resume dictates we should expect them to do it again).

But thats the great thing about the off season with a World Champion team, actually thinking of ways to improve the best of the best!

GO WHITE SOX!

Banix12
12-06-2005, 07:45 PM
Joe McEwing (Guillen's type of player), Eli Marrero (has some pop), Dave Roberts (speed is intriguing), and Greg Colbrunn (can hit in any role) are all posible guys.

I also think Borchard should be given a shot, he had a good spring last year and looked decent last September.

Ross Gload is also a good choice, and may be better than any other back ups available. Can play 1B, LF, or RF.

We should also think of the bullpen. Remember, we had three guys (Politte, Hermanson, Cotts) have career years and nothing in Cliff and Hermie's resume dictates we should expect them to do it again).

But thats the great thing about the off season with a World Champion team, actually thinking of ways to improve the best of the best!

GO WHITE SOX!

Unless Gload magically becomes a better defensive OF there really is no space for him on the team.

I really don't know what can be done to the bullpen other than possibly replace Marte.

Roberts is the only interesting guy there to me but I wonder if he can be had. The rest of the options don't really fill the need of a lefty utility man who can play 3rd base who you could stand playing a prolonged period of time if Crede gets hurt.