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Whitesox4ever
12-04-2005, 01:08 PM
Word out of San Diego is that the Padres are looking for starting pitching and might be willing to trade Mike Cameron since they resign Brian Giles..

I would love to see Mike Cameron back in a Sox uniform..

ilsox7
12-04-2005, 01:21 PM
Brian Anderson.

SoxSpeed22
12-04-2005, 01:22 PM
Brian Anderson.This will not end until BA proves everyone wrong.

Unregistered
12-04-2005, 01:24 PM
Word out of San Diego is that the Padres are looking for starting pitching and might be willing to trade Mike Cameron since they resign Brian Giles..

I would love to see Mike Cameron back in a Sox uniform..
It's funny, I was just saying to someone the other day, "You know, I really wish we had someone on our team who really had a legitimate shot at striking out 200 times next season."

Whitesox4ever
12-04-2005, 01:24 PM
Would also love to get Mark Loretta from the Padres to be our super utily guy

spawn
12-04-2005, 01:24 PM
Brian Anderson.
Thank you. I'm tired of seeing all these threads about who should play CF. We have the talent in the minors. It's time they showed their abilities.

Whitesox4ever
12-04-2005, 01:27 PM
Thome strikes out alot more than Cameron does but I bet you are happy that he is on the SoxIt's funny, I was just saying to someone the other day, "You know, I really wish we had someone on our team who really had a legitimate shot at striking out 200 times next season."

Whitesox4ever
12-04-2005, 01:29 PM
Brian Anderson will be a good 4th OF on the Sox next year since we dont have a good 4th OF yet.. So why not upgrade the CF spot.
Thank you. I'm tired of seeing all these threads about who should play CF. We have the talent in the minors. It's time they showed their abilities.

ilsox7
12-04-2005, 01:31 PM
Thome strikes out alot more than Cameron does but I bet you are happy that he is on the Sox

This was a really stupid comment. The difference between Mike Cameron and Jim Thome? A few HUNDRED home runs. 35 points in batting average. And 60+ points in OBP. Seriously, you lose credibility with comments like these.

Unregistered
12-04-2005, 01:33 PM
Thome strikes out alot more than Cameron does but I bet you are happy that he is on the SoxDo I really need to get into the difference in Offensive production of those two? C'mon, WS4E, you're reaching.

EDIT: Beat me to it, ilsox7. :cool:

Chisox003
12-04-2005, 01:35 PM
This was a really stupid comment. The difference between Mike Cameron and Jim Thome? A few HUNDRED home runs. 35 points in batting average. And 60+ points in OBP. Seriously, you lose credibility with comments like these.
He's just defending his original stupid comment that suggested replacing Brian Anderson with Mike Cameron.

It's a slippery slope of stupid comments!

BA = CF. :gulp:

delben91
12-04-2005, 01:36 PM
Brian Anderson will be a good 4th OF on the Sox next year since we dont have a good 4th OF yet.. So why not upgrade the CF spot.

Every player in MLB was a rookie at some point. If the Sox refused to play rookies, where would we be? With McCarthy still in AAA? Bobby Jenks still at Birmingham? Should we get another starting pitcher so we don't run the risk of having a rookie in the rotation? Send Jenks back to the minors for more seasoning?

They have to play sometime if we're ever going to find out if they're any good. Let Anderson play. If the only worry we have is one spot in our lineup (and it's not a worry if he'll be adequate, it's a worry if he'll be good or great) then I'll take my chances.

As ilsox7 said..."Brian Anderson."

Whitesox4ever
12-04-2005, 01:36 PM
Baseball is not all offense.. Cameron is one of the top defensive outfielders and will give the Sox alot of speed in the lineup..

Did I say anything about Thome being a bad ball player all I mention is that he strikeouts just as much as Cameron does.

This was a really stupid comment. The difference between Mike Cameron and Jim Thome? A few HUNDRED home runs. 35 points in batting average. And 60+ points in OBP. Seriously, you lose credibility with comments like these.

ilsox7
12-04-2005, 01:38 PM
Baseball is not all offense.. Cameron is one of the top defensive outfielders and will give the Sox alot of speed in the lineup..

Did I say anything about Thome being a bad ball player all I mention is that he strikeouts just as much as Cameron does.

Have you read any of the scouting reports about BA or seen him play on a consistent basis in the minor leagues? There is one thing that translates to almost a 100% rate from the minor leagues to the major leagues and that is defense. Every report on BA from people who see him play a lot is that he is a "gold glove" caliber outfielder and better than Rowand.

Also, striking out is a LOT more acceptable when you hit 40 HR's, hit .280 and get on base 40% of the time. Mike Cameron does not come close to doing any of these things.

ilsox7
12-04-2005, 01:41 PM
Holy ****! Mike Cameron made over $7MM last year. Assuming his contract is consistent or escalates, you seriously want to bring in this guy for over $7MM? When BA will probably be better than him for the league minimum.

likeawarlord
12-04-2005, 01:42 PM
Baseball is not all offense.. Cameron is one of the top defensive outfielders and will give the Sox alot of speed in the lineup..

Did I say anything about Thome being a bad ball player all I mention is that he strikeouts just as much as Cameron does.

but if you weren't trying to imply that thome was roughly equal to cameron offensively, whats the point in making the comment? to show that there is more to a hitter than how often they strike out? because trust me, with cameron, there isn't much else.

delben91
12-04-2005, 01:42 PM
Holy ****! Mike Cameron made over $7MM last year. Assuming his contract is consistent or escalates, you seriously want to bring in this guy for over $7MM? When BA will probably be better than him for the league minimum.

Exactly, and also remember that the Sox would have to give up someone in the trade. Timo Perez and Willie Harris?

Whitesox4ever
12-04-2005, 01:42 PM
Well I guess Ozzie doesnt think he is a good defensive OF. So I will take his opinion over yours..
Also 115K's in 118 games is alot of strike outs for someone playing in the minors


For all of his wall-crashing, highlight-reel catches, Rowand had a relatively weak arm for a center fielder and not enough pop in his bat. Anderson, 23, eventually might provide more balance in the lineup and has a much stronger arm. Anderson hit .295 with 16 home runs, 57 RBI and 115 strikeouts in 118 games at Class AAA Charlotte last season. Guillen said he isn't worried as much about offense as he is about defense from a player who doesn't have much speed for a major-league center fielder. That's one reason Guillen has been pushing for Class AA speedster Jerry Owens, who might need more seasoning


Have you read any of the scouting reports about BA or seen him play on a consistent basis in the minor leagues? There is one thing that translates to almost a 100% rate from the minor leagues to the major leagues and that is defense. Every report on BA from people who see him play a lot is that he is a "gold glove" caliber outfielder and better than Rowand.

Also, striking out is a LOT more acceptable when you hit 40 HR's, hit .280 and get on base 40% of the time. Mike Cameron does not come close to doing any of these things.

ilsox7
12-04-2005, 01:46 PM
Well I guess Ozzie doesnt think he is a good defensive OF. So I will take his opinion over yours..



For all of his wall-crashing, highlight-reel catches, Rowand had a relatively weak arm for a center fielder and not enough pop in his bat. Anderson, 23, eventually might provide more balance in the lineup and has a much stronger arm. Anderson hit .295 with 16 home runs, 57 RBI and 115 strikeouts in 118 games at Class AAA Charlotte last season. Guillen said he isn't worried as much about offense as he is about defense from a player who doesn't have much speed for a major-league center fielder. That's one reason Guillen has been pushing for Class AA speedster Jerry Owens, who might need more seasoning

OK...it's called context. All the comments Ozzie has made about BA's defense have been in reference to just making sure the kid concentrates on his defense and lets the offense come to him. Basically, he has been saying to BA that it doesn't matter if he struggles offensively to start with b/c what matters to him is that he does not let it affect his defense.

Ozzie also called Rowand one of the best CF he has ever seen. Guess what? BA is faster than Rowand. And BA has a stronger arm. Not to mention the scouts have said BA takes much better routes to balls and does not have to play a deep CF as Rowand did to protect the gaps, thus allowing many balls to drop in front of him for hits.

EDIT: And there is no doubt Owens will be there in spring training to push BA. And who knows, maybe he beats him out. But the bottom line is our CF should come from within the organization. And if it doesn't, some $7MM chump is not the answer.

SoxSpeed22
12-04-2005, 01:46 PM
As much as I liked Cameron when he was here...
ATTENTION DOUBTERS:
Stop treating Anderson like he's a worthless bum just because he's a rookie! We're so desperate to protect the crown and so afraid to lose it because it's all that we got. We get ideas of who to replace who with to make a "perfect team." A perfect team ain't gonna happen. Sure Anderson had lousy numbers last year, but he came in when the whole team flatlined. (Except Contreras) Yes, he still has to learn, but does anyone really think that there's a better option that doesn't require throwing money at it?
Fear of failure is the biggest obstacle to success.Remember that. I forgot that once, and it wasn't fun.

Soxzilla
12-04-2005, 01:59 PM
I hear Johnny Damon is available.

wsox3505
12-04-2005, 02:38 PM
we traded cameron for good reason. . . .can't make contact.

we knew it then, and nothing has changed since. other teams have seen it as well.

santo=dorf
12-04-2005, 02:50 PM
Word out of San Diego is that the Padres are looking for starting pitching and might be willing to trade Mike Cameron since they resign Brian Giles..

I would love to see Mike Cameron back in a Sox uniform..

What "word?"

San Diego wanted to bring back Giles after the 2005 season, so why would they bother trading for Cameron a month ago? :?:

SoxFan76
12-04-2005, 03:00 PM
Well I guess Ozzie doesnt think he is a good defensive OF. So I will take his opinion over yours..
Also 115K's in 118 games is alot of strike outs for someone playing in the minors


For all of his wall-crashing, highlight-reel catches, Rowand had a relatively weak arm for a center fielder and not enough pop in his bat. Anderson, 23, eventually might provide more balance in the lineup and has a much stronger arm. Anderson hit .295 with 16 home runs, 57 RBI and 115 strikeouts in 118 games at Class AAA Charlotte last season. Guillen said he isn't worried as much about offense as he is about defense from a player who doesn't have much speed for a major-league center fielder. That's one reason Guillen has been pushing for Class AA speedster Jerry Owens, who might need more seasoning

Another relatively new poster throwing out crazy trade suggestions. What the heck is going on here?

Soxzilla
12-04-2005, 03:19 PM
we traded cameron for good reason. . . .can't make contact.

Well...he sure knew how to make contact that one day...

You know what I'm talking about...:(:

SoxSpeed22
12-04-2005, 03:20 PM
Well...he sure knew how to make contact that one day...

You know what I'm talking about...:(::thud:
What the hell was Jim Parque doing out there anyway? As with all the pitchers used that day.

RowandKicksAss07
12-04-2005, 03:29 PM
I would love if there was a "Where are they now?" White Sox TV show...you can find out what guys like parque and mike sirotka are up to nowadays and see where there life has gone since baseball.

mdep524
12-04-2005, 03:33 PM
Would also love to get Mark Loretta from the Padres to be our super utily guy Now this is an EXCELLENT idea! If the Bill Mueller thing falls through, I hope the Sox look into this. Loretta would be perfect.

SOXSINCE'70
12-04-2005, 03:37 PM
Thome strikes out alot more than Cameron does but I bet you are happy that he is on the Sox

Thome also takes BB's almost as many times as he K's.
And yes,I am happy he's on the Sox.Would you rather he
help the 'Toons to the 2006 WS?? There were 2 teams Jim Thome
would waive his no trade clause for;the Sox and the Tribe.
Be greatful KW got the Phils to pay most of his salary over the
next 3 years and realise that putting Jim Thome between Konerko
and Dye could translate to CAREER YEARS for Konerko,Dye,and maybe
even Crede,if he bats 6th.Sadly,with Crede an FA after the '06 season,
you know what that means.The Sox will have to deal with this loser:

:borass:
"The White Sox could never have repeated without Joe Crede.
10 years,500 Million Dollars.And i'm dead serious.":angry: :angry:

ilsox7
12-04-2005, 03:52 PM
Thome also takes BB's almost as many times as he K's.
And yes,I am happy he's on the Sox.Would you rather he
help the 'Toons to the 2006 WS?? There were 2 teams Jim Thome
would waive his no trade clause for;the Sox and the Tribe.
Be greatful KW got the Phils to pay most of his salary over the
next 3 years and realise that putting Jim Thome between Konerko
and Dye could translate to CAREER YEARS for Konerko,Dye,and maybe
even Crede,if he bats 6th.Sadly,with Crede an FA after the '06 season,
you know what that means.The Sox will have to deal with this loser:

:borass:
"The White Sox could never have repeated without Joe Crede.
10 years,500 Million Dollars.And i'm dead serious.":angry: :angry:

Except, he's not a free agent after '06.

Jjav829
12-04-2005, 03:56 PM
What "word?"

San Diego wanted to bring back Giles after the 2005 season, so why would they bother trading for Cameron a month ago? :?:

Exactly. I don't buy this at all. Cameron is a great fit there. The Padres struggled in center all of last year. Cameron is actually a great fit there with that spacious outfield. I don't see them trading him.

Optipessimism
12-04-2005, 05:25 PM
Acquiring another CF is unnecessary. Trading a starter for one is more than stupid.

Tragg
12-04-2005, 05:35 PM
Word out of San Diego is that the Padres are looking for starting pitching and might be willing to trade Mike Cameron since they resign Brian Giles..

I would love to see Mike Cameron back in a Sox uniform..
You've got to be joking.

Taliesinrk
12-04-2005, 07:06 PM
And if it doesn't, some $7MM chump is not the answer.

I don't think this is exactly necessary..



While I don't agree with the proposal, I think people seem to be a bit hard on the proposer.. I mean he didn't just propose Robbie Alomar III....

ilsox7
12-04-2005, 07:09 PM
I don't think this is exactly necessary..



While I don't agree with the proposal, I think people seem to be a bit hard on the proposer.. I mean he didn't just propose Robbie Alomar III....

The problem is, it's one proposal after another these days. And when people come with facts and reasoning to shoot down yet another trade proposal and the response is some silly comparison of Jim Thome to Mike Cameron b/c they both strike out, what do you expect?

chisoxmike
12-04-2005, 07:31 PM
I hear Johnny Damon is available.

This thread is getting worse and worse.

Soxzilla
12-04-2005, 10:08 PM
This thread is getting worse and worse.

I never said I wanted to pay his atrocious demands for a salary. But I'd love him on the Sox...he's a great player.

SOX ADDICT '73
12-04-2005, 10:26 PM
Would also love to get Mark Loretta from the Padres to be our super utily guy
And if he's not available, maybe we can trade for another Padre, Geoff Blum (perhaps you've heard of him?). Scouting report is that he sucks ass in the regular season, but he won't embarass us on defense, and he's got a postseason flair for the dramatic...:cool:

getonbckthr
12-05-2005, 12:25 AM
Thank you. I'm tired of seeing all these threads about who should play CF. We have the talent in the minors. It's time they showed their abilities.
Ya Joe Borchard, Kip Wells, Josh Fogg, Arnie Munoz, etc. etc. etc. really showed thier abilities.

DeadMoney
12-05-2005, 12:58 AM
Ya Joe Borchard, Kip Wells, Josh Fogg, Arnie Munoz, etc. etc. etc. really showed thier abilities.

And I've never hear of Magglio Ordonez, Carlos Lee, Aaron Rowand, Mark Buehrle, Jon Garland, etc. etc. etc. either! C'mon, for every player that doesn't develop, there is another who does. That is why there are 100 guys in the minor leagues either working their way up or clogging up the system...it's the way baseball works.

getonbckthr
12-05-2005, 01:18 AM
And I've never hear of Magglio Ordonez, Carlos Lee, Aaron Rowand, Mark Buehrle, Jon Garland, etc. etc. etc. either! C'mon, for every player that doesn't develop, there is another who does. That is why there are 100 guys in the minor leagues either working their way up or clogging up the system...it's the way baseball works.
Together we just made a point. Prospects are 50/50. After just winning a title, if we can afford it, I don't want a rookie starting at a key position.

ilsox7
12-05-2005, 01:28 AM
Together we just made a point. Prospects are 50/50. After just winning a title, if we can afford it, I don't want a rookie starting at a key position.

Defense translates VERY well from the minor leagues to the major leagues. Pretty much all of the scouts (on WSI and in the Sox system) have said BA is a "gold glove" type defender. Most say he has a better arm than Rowand did, takes better routes to balls, and does not have to play as deep of a CF as Aaron.

Given the fact that Aaron only contributed minimally to our offense last year, it is not that big of a risk to have BA or even Owen (if he beats out BA) in CF next year. If we had an extra $10MM or so laying around, maybe you look into other options. But we don't. BA is a cheap option who will play plus defense and has the potential to actually be much better than Rowand with the bat.

Just because we are a contender does not mean no rookies should be allowed to play. Hell, look at McCarthy. Most people here have essentially given him the 5th spot in the rotation. He was a Grade A prospect last year who struggled big time on his first call-up then got it right over his last few starts of the year. Should we not pencil him into the 5th spot b/c he is a rookie?

How about Bobby Jenks. He was a rookie last year and he did a pretty good job of handling things down the stretch. Every player starts out as a rookie. And when you are a contending team, you don't want to have too many of them, but having a couple is fine. Especially when BA will be hitting 8th or 9th in the line-up. There will be no pressure on him offensively. As long as he throws the leather like he has his entire minor league career, we'll be fine. Plus, all of the options I've seen thrown around are much WORSE than BA defensively. So it really makes no sense to replace him.

IowaSox1971
12-05-2005, 02:06 AM
We should give Owens an opportunity to battle Anderson for the starting job in spring training. If one struggles for a month or two once the season starts, then we can try the other one. If both of them are unable to do the job, then we still could pick up a center fielder by the July 31 trading deadline. But I think at least one of them should pan out next season.

ilsox7
12-05-2005, 02:12 AM
We should give Owens an opportunity to battle Anderson for the starting job in spring training. If one struggles for a month or two once the season starts, then we can try the other one. If both of them are unable to do the job, then we still could pick up a center fielder by the July 31 trading deadline. But I think at least one of them should pan out next season.

How dare you bring such reason with your posting!

wdelaney72
12-05-2005, 08:43 AM
I'd prefer Brian Anderson.

1917
12-05-2005, 10:26 AM
Would also love to get Mark Loretta from the Padres to be our super utily guy

Loretta is one of the better 2nd basemen in the NL, he will never be used as a utlity player, you get him, he's an everyday player....not a Blum

bobowhite
12-06-2005, 09:29 AM
Look, I like Mike Cameron. I actually met him at a the opening of a grocery store. He seemed like a decent guy and really talked to the kids present and signed every autograph, not a 'five and drive' star appearance at all. I wasn't happy when he was traded, but have revised that opinion (we did get PK for him.) I thought he played hard and gave a good effort at all times.


On the other hand, he was unworkable on the basepaths (just couldn't learn the first step) not a great hitter and wasn't an instictive CF. Doesn't hit enough for corner outfielding and isn't good enough defense in CF. I think the White Sox have better options for center.

Whitesox4ever
12-06-2005, 09:31 AM
He has won 2 gold gloves within the last 5 yearsLook, I like Mike Cameron. I actually met him at a the opening of a grocery store. He seemed like a decent guy and really talked to the kids present and signed every autograph, not a 'five and drive' star appearance at all. I wasn't happy when he was traded, but have revised that opinion (we did get PK for him.) I thought he played hard and gave a good effort at all times.


On the other hand, he was unworkable on the basepaths (just couldn't learn the first step) not a great hitter and wasn't an instictive CF. Doesn't hit enough for corner outfielding and isn't good enough defense in CF. I think the White Sox have better options for center.

Mohoney
12-06-2005, 12:32 PM
It looks like there is really one major choice that is at the heart of this whole issue.

Who is the CF of the future, Anderson or Young?

If the choice is Anderson, then he's your starter for '06, possibly moving over to RF in '07 with Young in CF in '07.

If the choice is Young, then maybe trading for a one-year rental isn't such a bad idea. If you do end up trading Anderson in one of these rumored deals, then you re-sign or extend Jermaine Dye, and put Young in CF in '07.

Is Anderson out of options? If he has one more left, then I would use it and get a one-year rental using either Owens or Sweeney as the centerpiece of the deal (and sweetening it up a little bit with a pitching prospect). Then Anderson is in RF in '07, and Young is in CF in '07.

chaotic8512
12-06-2005, 12:43 PM
He has won 2 gold gloves within the last 5 years

If there is anything that we have learned from this year's "awards"... GG's don't mean a thing. Rowand was snubbed to make room for a CF who missed nearly half the season? Jeter got another GG with a less than stellar defensive performance? Please!

Taliesinrk
12-06-2005, 12:59 PM
If there is anything that we have learned from this year's "awards"... GG's don't mean a thing. Rowand was snubbed to make room for a CF who missed nearly half the season? Jeter got another GG with a less than stellar defensive performance? Please!

Although i hear what WS4E is saying.. you beat me to the punch. I don't think any self-respecting Sox fan can use CG's as a legit argument.

Optipessimism
12-06-2005, 02:29 PM
It looks like there is really one major choice that is at the heart of this whole issue.

Who is the CF of the future, Anderson or Young?

If the choice is Anderson, then he's your starter for '06, possibly moving over to RF in '07 with Young in CF in '07.

If the choice is Young, then maybe trading for a one-year rental isn't such a bad idea. If you do end up trading Anderson in one of these rumored deals, then you re-sign or extend Jermaine Dye, and put Young in CF in '07.

Is Anderson out of options? If he has one more left, then I would use it and get a one-year rental using either Owens or Sweeney as the centerpiece of the deal (and sweetening it up a little bit with a pitching prospect). Then Anderson is in RF in '07, and Young is in CF in '07.

I don't think you can decide between Anderson and Young until after 2006 is complete. What Anderson does at the major league level and what Young does in AA/AAA should decide it. IMO, Young and Anderson have both moved so quickly that they both need to be given a serious look. I say Anderson in CF in '06 and we'll see what happens. If he works out and Young still looks good as well, then we deal Dye.

Lprof
12-06-2005, 02:32 PM
It looks like there is really one major choice that is at the heart of this whole issue.

Who is the CF of the future, Anderson or Young?

If the choice is Anderson, then he's your starter for '06, possibly moving over to RF in '07 with Young in CF in '07.

If the choice is Young, then maybe trading for a one-year rental isn't such a bad idea. If you do end up trading Anderson in one of these rumored deals, then you re-sign or extend Jermaine Dye, and put Young in CF in '07.

Is Anderson out of options? If he has one more left, then I would use it and get a one-year rental using either Owens or Sweeney as the centerpiece of the deal (and sweetening it up a little bit with a pitching prospect). Then Anderson is in RF in '07, and Young is in CF in '07.

What the hell happened to Owens???? He looks like the best of the lot!

bobowhite
12-06-2005, 02:39 PM
It looks like there is really one major choice that is at the heart of this whole issue.

Who is the CF of the future, Anderson or Young?

If the choice is Anderson, then he's your starter for '06, possibly moving over to RF in '07 with Young in CF in '07.

If the choice is Young, then maybe trading for a one-year rental isn't such a bad idea. If you do end up trading Anderson in one of these rumored deals, then you re-sign or extend Jermaine Dye, and put Young in CF in '07.

Is Anderson out of options? If he has one more left, then I would use it and get a one-year rental using either Owens or Sweeney as the centerpiece of the deal (and sweetening it up a little bit with a pitching prospect). Then Anderson is in RF in '07, and Young is in CF in '07.

I don't think the White Sox will trade Anderson, Young, Owens, Sweeney or McCarthy for anyone. I think Dye and Pods have one solid year each and one more year between them. As in, the WhiteSox outfielders of 2007 will probably be: Anderson, Owens, Young and either Pods or Dye. Certainly this is the case by 2008.

I think Garland is more likely to go than McCarthy although I'd bet my rent (happily) that both will be with the Sox in 2006.

Randar68
12-06-2005, 04:10 PM
What the hell happened to Owens???? He looks like the best of the lot!

He's a LF'er.

Tragg
12-06-2005, 05:17 PM
He's a LF'er.

Which I suspect we'll need soon enough. I hope they all pan out: Anderson in Right, Young in center, owens in left...beautiful.