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soxruleEP
12-01-2005, 09:52 PM
Eventhough they don't print this comic strip anymore, the Tribune still circulates it.

The recent story line has included Coach Thorp turning in his own team for a eligibility violation. Then, last week, one of his football players stepped out of bounds. When the ref didn't see it, he told the officials he had, nullifying a score that would have won the game for Milford.

Check out the undercover anti-Sox message in this strip for tomorrow.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/custom/gilthorp/cs-051128gilthorpgallery,1,6145875.cartoongallery?col l=cs-gilthorp-current

RadioheadRocks
12-01-2005, 09:55 PM
Eventhough they don't print this comic strip anymore, the Tribune still circulates it.

The recent story line has included Coach Thorp turning in his own team for a eligibility violation. Then, last week, one of his football players stepped out of bounds. When the ref didn't see it, he told the officials he had, nullifying a score that would have won the game for Milford.

Chcek out the undercover anti-Sox message in this strip for tomorrow.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/custom/gilthorp/

Hmmmmmm... and supposedly NOBODY watched the playoffs this year since the ratings were so low!!! :rolling:

soxwon
12-01-2005, 10:15 PM
Eventhough they don't print this comic strip anymore, the Tribune still circulates it.

The recent story line has included Coach Thorp turning in his own team for a eligibility violation. Then, last week, one of his football players stepped out of bounds. When the ref didn't see it, he told the officials he had, nullifying a score that would have won the game for Milford.

Chcek out the undercover anti-Sox message in this strip for tomorrow.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/custom/gilthorp/



Big Deal
SOX won the world series, who cares what the trib thinks.

cheeses_h_rice
12-01-2005, 11:26 PM
Gil Thorp?

Who's next to chime in on those scummy White Sox? Dondi?

Talk about i-r-r-e-l-e-v-a-n-t.

:rolleyes:

popilius
12-02-2005, 01:02 AM
That's hilarious. . . it's funny you caught that.

Hey, they way I look at it is when your ON TOP, eveyone looking up at you will try meekly to justify their own failures. What feels great is that we're the 2005 Champs and no one can every take that away.

:gulp:

tebman
12-02-2005, 01:28 AM
Gil Thorp?

Who's next to chime in on those scummy White Sox? Dondi?

:rolling: No! Not Dondi. Better call the Tribune cops!

http://www.comicsreporter.com/images/uploads/dick-tracy.jpg

"Tracy here -- get me the goods on that catcher. McGrath tipped me that he stole a base!"

Coolpapa
12-02-2005, 04:02 AM
That's going a little deep for the cubune don't ya think

hsnterprize
12-02-2005, 07:05 AM
I'm thinking, "Okay...so what was Jermaine Dye supposed to do when he was 'awarded' first base in that situation...argue with the umpire the ball hit the bat? People get thrown out of games for arguing calls that go against them."

So I guess everyone that gets a call going their way when replays and such show the call should've gone the other way should stop the game and tell the officials, "You're wrong", right? It just looks like another case of "sour grapes" to me. Bad calls and such are a part of sports, and that's just how it is. The Sox were good enough to create their own breaks...and yes, they did get a couple of breaks during this playoff run. But what made the Sox such a great team was that when they got a break via an error or a bad call from an ump, they took FULL ADVANTAGE of it. It's not the ump's fault after Dye got hit that the next Houston pitcher threw a meatball to Paul Konerko and watched it go over the fence. It's not the ump's fault after the Pierzynski "3rd strike" incident the Angels' pitcher threw a meatball to Joe Crede, and watched it just miss going over the left field wall.

Think of how many games in baseball and other sports that would be longer than anything if everyone decided to be "honest" and correct officials when they got a bad call their way. While admirable, the bottom line is human error has ALWAYS been a part of sports. People ought to just quit their complaining and accept that as a part of reality. The better team won the World Series...plain and simple. This is just another way someone at the Tribune Company is expressing their displeasure about the "other team" winning it all while their beloved Cubbies once again sat and watched.

By the way, I'll say this for the record...if Michael Barrett did what A.J. did, or if A.J. did what he did in a Cubs' uniform, he'd be considered a GENIUS. Hypocrites to the core.

Tragg
12-02-2005, 08:58 AM
Hey - the Tribune has publicly disclosed that they own the Cubs. They've done their duty. Don't like it - that's your problem.

TommyJohn
12-02-2005, 09:17 AM
By the way, I'll say this for the record...if Michael Barrett did what A.J. did, or if A.J. did what he did in a Cubs' uniform, he'd be considered a GENIUS. Hypocrites to the core.

Genius? Are you kidding? Fans and the media would've gushed over how
Harry Caray and Jack Brickhouse were putting in the good word to the
Lord above, and how all these plays truly meant that God was a Cub fan
and that they were destiny's darlings. Hypocrites to the core? It runs
deeper than that.

Hitmen77
12-02-2005, 10:35 AM
Eventhough they don't print this comic strip anymore, the Tribune still circulates it.

The recent story line has included Coach Thorp turning in his own team for a eligibility violation. Then, last week, one of his football players stepped out of bounds. When the ref didn't see it, he told the officials he had, nullifying a score that would have won the game for Milford.

Check out the undercover anti-Sox message in this strip for tomorrow.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/custom/gilthorp/

I clicked on the "About the Author" link on this strip and found this interesting tidbit about him:

"After visiting with Tribune Media Services at the Tribune Tower--and being reminded of his boyhood dream to be the sports editor of the Chicago Tribune--..."

TomBradley72
12-02-2005, 10:39 AM
I'm sure the next Gill Thorp strip will talk about the moral implications of accepting a HR in the World Series when it bounced off the wall in play...directly relating to a run being scored. If the Houston relief pitcher does his job and gets Paulie out....the Dye call is long forgotten. (just like the AJ call)

TomBradley72
12-02-2005, 10:42 AM
One more thing on the Dye call.....he barely even moved his bat...the pitcher had thrown ball four....it would have been a lucky break for Houston to have that ball four turn into a foul ball. Of course when you go 11-1 in the post season, 16-1 over your last 17 games, and lead your division wire-to-wire...you won because of the umpires.

Hitmen77
12-02-2005, 10:47 AM
Some more about the author of this strip:

http://pentecostalevangel.ag.org/conversations2004/4715_jenkins.cfm

"I still am a fan. Iím a die-hard Cubs fan. I think any team can have a bad century. We watch Cubs games on satellite. When we get back to Chicago we try to follow them."


So, in summary, a die-hard Cubs fan who's lifelong dream was to become Tribune Sports Editor writes a comic strip that suggests that the Sox are dishonest for taking a base that an umpire awarded to them. Wow, what a surprise! I never would have guess that this trash came from a sore loser Cub fan!

Jerko
12-02-2005, 10:50 AM
I used to like Gil Thorp. Funny, nobody remembers that phantom homer the Astros hit (except us). You know what, everything evens out. Look at the one playoff game the Sox lost, that was a gift to the freaking Angels. Did the Sox whine about it? No, they won every game after that. Grow a pair Astro fans, and you too Cub Thorp.

TDog
12-02-2005, 11:35 AM
Not to mention the fact that there was no intent to swing at a pitch well inside that would have put him on base had it neither hit Dye nor the bat. The pitcher screwed up by throwing ball four and wasn't bailed out by getting the call that the ball had hit the bat.

I have attended hundreds of baseball games. I have never seen a hitter refuse to take first base claiming he wasn't hit. I've never even seen it happen in any comic strips. I have seen many hitters take first on pitches that either hit the bat or hit them while they were in the process of swinging. I've seen players act like they were hit when replays showed they weren't.

The Sox didn't precipitate any of the controversial calls that went their way. Even with the AJ play, AJ didn't argue that the strike wasn't caught. He was too busy swinging to see what happened. AJ said he ran to first after never heard the umpire never call him out, and the umpire said he never called him out. (Some revisionists and a Florida sports columnist, however, have asserted that the AJ strike out would have ended the game with an Angels win.) And it was Konerko's slam, not a bad call on a bad pitch to Dye that lost the lead in Game 2 for the Astros.

slavko
12-02-2005, 01:49 PM
Gil appears to have had extensive plastic surgery since his days in the paper. Just before the strip disappeared, Gil won a golf tournament one summer with help reading a putt from his playing opponent, which is against tournament rules in Golf and should have resulted in a 2 stroke penalty and disqualification. Eff you, Gil. A paragon of moral fiber like you should have turned yourself in, resigned from your teaching job where you never teach a class, and gone to live in the woods.

hsnterprize
12-02-2005, 03:19 PM
Oh great...I've met Jerry Jenkins. He's a pretty nice guy, and his "Left Behind" book series is one of the most popular Christian fiction series of all time. I met him while I was working at Moody Radio for a fund raiser. He and co-author Tim LaHaye were very nice to me and everyone there.

I don't mind him dreaming about being the sports editor of the Trib, but please!!!!! Like another poster said, how much of an "ethical" thing would it have been if that Houston Astros' hitter told the umpires, "I really didn't hit a home run...that ball hit the wrong side of the line." Wouldn't happen...but no one's calling the Astros out on that because they ultimately lost the game and the series. I guess only the winning team's ethics are called into question here...especially when the winning team is the chief rival of the Tribune Company.

George Knue
12-02-2005, 05:19 PM
The Gil Thorp strip's author is not Jerry Jenkins -- it's Neal Rubin, who is a columnist for the Detroit News and as far as I know was never interested in working for the Chicago Tribune. I don't think he's a Cubs fan either.

We'll clean up some of the outdated content on that site soon.

As for this being an "Undercover attack by Cubbune," that's the most amazing thing I have ever seen here. And that's saying something.

George Knue
ChicagoSports.com

soxruleEP
12-02-2005, 05:57 PM
The Gil Thorp strip's author is not Jerry Jenkins -- it's Neal Rubin, who is a columnist for the Detroit News and as far as I know was never interested in working for the Chicago Tribune. I don't think he's a Cubs fan either.

We'll clean up some of the outdated content on that site soon.

As for this being an "Undercover attack by Cubbune," that's the most amazing thing I have ever seen here. And that's saying something.

George Knue
ChicagoSports.com

I could not be more thrilled that this is "the most amazing thing [you] have ever seen here."

Question: Does or does not the Tribune syndicate the Gil Thorp comic strip?

Question: Does or does not this particular episode of the strip put forth the ridiculous idea that a player should dispute an umpire's call in his favor?

Question: Does it or does it not then call accepting this break of the game--which in the end is not different than a ball/strike call--"dishonest"?

Question: Is it or is not obvious that this is an attack on the White Sox and a continued attempt to put forth the idea that somehow the complete dominance that was their play-off/World Series run is illegitimate?

The Cubbune and its employees can continue to squeal all they want about how this bias is in the misguided heads of Sox fans, but when taken as a whole--and this comic strip is only part of the whole, not a single piece of evidence--it becomes fairly obvious what the attitude of the company is.

The King of England didn't have to come right out and ask for one of his vassals to kill Thomas Beckett, he had only to ask if no one could rid him of that man.

Everyone who works any place knows what is expected of them.

GoSox2K3
12-02-2005, 05:58 PM
The Gil Thorp strip's author is not Jerry Jenkins -- it's Neal Rubin, who is a columnist for the Detroit News and as far as I know was never interested in working for the Chicago Tribune. I don't think he's a Cubs fan either.

We'll clean up some of the outdated content on that site soon.

As for this being an "Undercover attack by Cubbune," that's the most amazing thing I have ever seen here. And that's saying something.

George Knue
ChicagoSports.com

I totally agree - it's WSI members' fault that the comic strip that practically calls Jermaine Dye an immoral cheater had info leading us to believe that it was written by a die-hard Cub fan who dreamed of being the Trib sports editor. We are just so paranoid!

As far as "amazing things", you should look no further than your own employer's newspaper. For example: Trib Editorial:
WORLD SERIES WOES: Cub fan tells far-fetched story about receiving random wrong number from a Sox fan screaming "Burn Down Wrigley" moments after Sox win the pennant. This is representative of most Sox fans attitudes... blah blah blah attendance ...blah blah blah Ronnie Woo Woo... blah blah blah blah....come visit Wrigley Field next year and forget about the Sox.

Like you said AMAZING! :rolleyes:

tebman
12-02-2005, 10:48 PM
The Gil Thorp strip's author is not Jerry Jenkins -- it's Neal Rubin, who is a columnist for the Detroit News and as far as I know was never interested in working for the Chicago Tribune. I don't think he's a Cubs fan either.

We'll clean up some of the outdated content on that site soon.

As for this being an "Undercover attack by Cubbune," that's the most amazing thing I have ever seen here. And that's saying something.

George Knue
ChicagoSports.com
Welcome back! Do you think we really believe that comic-strip writers are assigned to run guerrilla attacks on your company's successful competitors? I would say too that that would be an amazing thing.

I think it would've been much more effective to have Broom-Hilda buzzing Anaheim, creating a breeze that caused Steve Finley's bat to hit Pierzynski's glove.

Or bring Moon Mullins out of retirement. He could brag to Kayo that he was the first to pull that dropped-third strike trick: "Nice gag, ain't it?"

No, we'll worry more about veteran sportswriters like Fred Mitchell who doesn't even know the names or positions of the World Series championship team in his own town. Or about hatchet-job front-page pieces written on the eve of the playoffs pointing out that the Sox don't play their games in the shadow of vaccuous singles bars, but instead near (horrors!) poor folks.

We're not bothered by marginal comic strips, but rather by marginal efforts to discredit the White Sox and, by extension, us. That's what's amazing.

HotelWhiteSox
12-02-2005, 10:54 PM
The Gil Thorp strip's author is not Jerry Jenkins -- it's Neal Rubin, who is a columnist for the Detroit News and as far as I know was never interested in working for the Chicago Tribune. I don't think he's a Cubs fan either.

We'll clean up some of the outdated content on that site soon.

As for this being an "Undercover attack by Cubbune," that's the most amazing thing I have ever seen here. And that's saying something.

George Knue
ChicagoSports.com

Well, I've seen some amazing and unexpected content in the Tribune (the story that started the big boycott request), so I guess were even, though I'm sure you guys will keep it coming. Come on, "the ball hits the bat and the umpire says it hits you", real coincidental.

George Knue
12-02-2005, 11:07 PM
The Gil Thorp strip is owned and syndicated by Tribune Media Services, which is a subsidiary of Tribune Company. The strip runs on the www.gilthorp.com (http://www.gilthorp.com/) Web site, which is managed by my staff and is the only place anyone in Chicago can read the strip unless they subscribe to one of the newspapers that runs it.

The strip is discussing an athlete who chose to tell an official that the official had erred in a call he had made Ė a call that went against this athleteís team. This resulted in the call being overturned. Which led to the discussion in the strip about whether this was good Ė which led to the coach describing a hypothetical situation that involved baseball. All of which sounds like a pretty legitimate story line for a strip revolving around high school sports.

You might suggest that itís ridiculous that someone would do this Ė but others wouldnít. Itís the kind of topic that people argue about.

As to this: ďIs it or is not obvious that this is an attack on the White Sox and a continued attempt to put forth the idea that somehow the complete dominance that was their play-off/World Series run is illegitimate?Ē

That is ridiculous. The Sox arenít mentioned and the way itís done doesnít point fingers at anybody. Itís happening weeks after the Dye play Ė a lot of people probably donít even remember it. Itís one panel in a comic strip that doesnít even appear in a Chicago newspaper.

But hereís the primary reason why itís ridiculous. Neal Rubin, who is not a Tribune Company employee, writes the strip. He then sends it to the artist and the letterer. Then it goes to TMS, which prepares it for final publication. Neal told me that he needs to get the strip in eight weeks before itís published Ė seven in a pinch. The game in which Dye was hit by the pitch was Oct. 23. That was a little more than six weeks ago.

When he did the strip, the Dye thing hadnít happened. Neal also said that the strip he wrote was unchanged. And that the White Sox didnít have anything to do with it.

I didnít know any of that when I wrote my first reply because the first statement you made so ludicrous that I didnít think I needed to check further. But I did Ė and thatís what I found.

Sorry, it isnít obvious. Isnít true either.

As to this: ďThe Cubbune and its employees can continue to squeal all they want about how this bias is in the misguided heads of Sox fans, but when taken as a whole--and this comic strip is only part of the whole, not a single piece of evidence--it becomes fairly obvious what the attitude of the company is.

The King of England didn't have to come right out and ask for one of his vassals to kill Thomas Beckett, he had only to ask if no one could rid him of that man.

Everyone who works any place knows what is expected of them.Ē

If I were speaking to you in person, Iíd use a commonly used expletive for bull manure. But since I donít like those words on our message boards, I wonít use it here.

But it is appropriate. First of all, the company does not treat its employees like vassals. Secondly, it does not expect us to promote the Cubs and rip the Sox. No, it does not. Never once. Ever.

I have worked for the Tribune Company every year it has owned the Cubs Ė all but four years in sports. Never once have I felt pressure to do that. Never once. Never. You and everyone else who thinks that way is dreaming.

And, contrary to what many of you believe to be true, the Chicago Tribune maintains a wall between its editorial and business sides. And the Chicago Tribune, a large part of a large company, will not risk its reputation for some small benefit to a smaller part of that same large company.

The Cubs donít own the Chicago Tribune or Tribune Company Ė theyíre just a small division in a very big company.

As to the other e-mail Ė I never said anything was WSI membersí fault. I corrected some incorrect information and added my opinion that the conclusion being drawn here was amazing. Youíre reading something into my note that wasnít there. Itís happened before. But I like to set the record straight.


Oh yeah Ė the article you were referring to was not a Chicago Tribune editorial. It was on the Tribune editorial pages but was written by someone not employed by the company with a clear pro-Cub allegiance. Sort of like John Kassís pro-Sox allegiance Ė but not quite like it, since John is a Tribune employee who apparently does not follow what all of you seem to think is standard employee behavior.

But those are just facts.



George Knue
ChicagoSports.com

Chisox003
12-02-2005, 11:08 PM
When I saw this thread and it's point, then clicked the link, I went :?:

I thought this was just stupid paranoia, and just figured I'd forget about it

Then I clicked and saw the entire week's worth of that thing .... Hilarious!

"So if a pitch ticks the bat, and the ump thinks it hit you..." That's funny. Like Hotel said, just a coincidence, right?

And now Mr. Knue is posting here (which I do give him credit for), defending it, and calling this entire topic "the most amazing thing he's ever seen here" .... Definitely not a dead give away, I'm just sayin....

Oh well, I thought this whole thing was pretty funny. What isn't funny is this ringing in my ear ... Almost to the tune of "We are the Champions" ... Naa, that'd be ridiculous!

Edit: Post made after George's. Still funny though.

George Knue
12-02-2005, 11:10 PM
Or about hatchet-job front-page pieces written on the eve of the playoffs pointing out that the Sox don't play their games in the shadow of vaccuous singles bars, but instead near (horrors!) poor folks.


Thank you for the welcome.

I didn't think it was a hatchet job then and I don't now. I still think that article reflected far more positively on the Sox than negatively. But people can disagree.

And people make mistakes. Even Sox fans.

George Knue
ChicagoSports.com

soxruleEP
12-02-2005, 11:52 PM
I hardly expected this to become a give-and-take. I thought this would just be a humorous addition to WSI's on-going record of the sometimes puzzling output from the Tower. It strikes me as odd that such a relatively innocuous post as this could elicit such a strong response. But now I see that I have offended you. I did not intend to impugn you or your ethics in any way.

Sincerely, I have no doubt that you and the people you supervise observe journalistic ethics. Still, to deny that the Tribune Company does not use its various divisions to advance its corporate interests is disingenuous at best.

I presented Gil as an example of how pervasive the attitude is. Despite what you may think about me (or Sox fans in general) I am not so paranoid (or stupid) as to believe that someone actually instructed the author of Gil Thorp to attack the Sox.

As to whether you're treated as vassals by the Tribune Corporation or not, all employees of every corporation--including me--are just that: beholden to the masters who control the fate of our careers. The question is whether or not we enter the cathedral and stab Beckett.

I am sure you wouldn't, but look around your office. I am sure you'll see quite a few who would.

Peace.

Sly
12-03-2005, 12:40 AM
I can't believe you guys actually got worked up over this thing ...

tebman
12-03-2005, 12:48 AM
I hardly expected this to become a give-and-take. I thought this would just be a humorous addition to WSI's on-going record of the sometimes puzzling output from the Tower. It strikes me as odd that such a relatively innocuous post as this could elicit such a strong response. But now I see that I have offended you. I did not intend to impugn you or your ethics in any way.

Sincerely, I have no doubt that you and the people you supervise observe journalistic ethics. Still, to deny that the Tribune Company does not use its various divisions to advance its corporate interests is disingenuous at best.

I presented Gil as an example of how pervasive the attitude is. Despite what you may think about me (or Sox fans in general) I am not so paranoid (or stupid) as to believe that someone actually instructed the author of Gil Thorp to attack the Sox.

As to whether you're treated as vassals by the Tribune Corporation or not, all employees of every corporation--including me--are just that: beholden to the masters who control the fate of our careers. The question is whether or not we enter the cathedral and stab Beckett.

I am sure you wouldn't, but look around your office. I am sure you'll see quite a few who would.

Peace.
Very eloquently said, EP. We've had these exchanges with George Knue before, and whether we're facetious or sincerely angry, he argues vigorously that the Tribune is a paragon of virtue with utterly no agenda. We counter with numerous examples of headline phrasing, story placement, story selection, themes, and angles, and he replies that we are much like Oliver Stone in our pursuit of a conspiracy.

I'm sure he's sincere in his own quest to be a responsible newsman. But even in the face of the fact of his company's behavior like this (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=63103) or this (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=62709&highlight=fault+line), he argues that these are anomalous points and don't demonstrate that the company would use its pervasive communications tools to advance a high-profile corporate bauble that acts as a branding icon.

He thinks we're a notch above the Flat-Earth Society in our remarks, and we think he's missing the rising waters around him. We agree to disagree.

But -- the White Sox are the World Champions. On that we agree (I think).

rdivaldi
12-03-2005, 12:55 AM
Kudos to you George for having the guts to come here; however, you do realize that your appearance here makes you look a bit defensive.

Hmmmm....