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View Full Version : Would you make this trade??


Whitesox4ever
12-01-2005, 11:55 AM
Heard from a friend that lives in AZ that the host on KTAR mention a trade he would like to see between the Sox and Diamondbacks

He said that AZ should send Javier Vazquez and Alex Cintron to the Sox for Jon Garland and Willie harris

Dan Mega
12-01-2005, 11:57 AM
Nope

Ol' No. 2
12-01-2005, 12:21 PM
Heard from a friend that lives in AZ that the host on KTAR mention a trade he would like to see between the Sox and Diamondbacks

He said that AZ should send Javier Vazquez and Alex Cintron to the Sox for Jon Garland and Willie harrisYes. Harris is out of options, and I'm not sure there is a place for him on the 2006 White Sox. Cintron can back up more positions and he may have some options left. Vazquez is signed through 2007 and with the Yankees paying $3M of each year's salary, he's not much more expensive than Garland.

wdelaney72
12-01-2005, 12:43 PM
Yes. Harris is out of options, and I'm not sure there is a place for him on the 2006 White Sox. Cintron can back up more positions and he may have some options left. Vazquez is signed through 2007 and with the Yankees paying $3M of each year's salary, he's not much more expensive than Garland.

There you go again, making sense.

Chisox003
12-01-2005, 12:51 PM
Vasquez wants to head East ... way East

I don't see any truth to this, unless K-dub plans on turning around and dealing Vasquez for another starter.

Jaret Wright anyone?

Cintron, on the other hand, would be great ... I've liked this guy for a few years, and I think KW does too. I think the main point here is that Kenny isn't done with this offseason yet ... Kind of scary :o:

D. TODD
12-01-2005, 12:55 PM
Yep, if Vasquez would be a happy camper playing in the midwest.

duke of dorwood
12-01-2005, 01:09 PM
With garland turning the 3 year down, DEFINATLY

nodiggity59
12-01-2005, 01:19 PM
How much does Vazquez make yearly minus the Yanks' payment? I wouldn't want him for more than about $7mil per year.

1917
12-01-2005, 01:23 PM
Almost an apples for Apples trade...Vasquez has yet to put a full good season together...Garland has, even though he tailed off at the end of 2005. People said if he got offense, he would be a 20 game winner once he got out of Montreal...well he got Offense with the Yanks and started hot and then fizzled so much he went out of the pen for the playoffs...they said he would be better back in the NL, so he went to AZ, whose offense wasn't too bad last year, started off good (had him on my fantasy team even) then he went ot crap again. But Cintron is a slight improvement over GROUP FOUUUUUR

Joosh
12-01-2005, 01:29 PM
IIRC, we already non-tendered both Willie and Perez. Wont happen.

Stroker Ace
12-01-2005, 01:39 PM
Nope. Vasquez wants to play on the east coast, and Garland is a better pitcher, IMO.

Jjav829
12-01-2005, 01:43 PM
IIRC, we already non-tendered both Willie and Perez. Wont happen.

You recall incorrectly. They are both still members of the Sox organization.

As for the trade, I'd do it and unlike most rumors found around here, this one actually makes some sense for both teams involved.

34 Inch Stick
12-01-2005, 02:18 PM
Yes. Harris is out of options, and I'm not sure there is a place for him on the 2006 White Sox. Cintron can back up more positions and he may have some options left. Vazquez is signed through 2007 and with the Yankees paying $3M of each year's salary, he's not much more expensive than Garland.

I would think the Sox would be able to squeeze some cash out of Arizona with this one as well. It is tought to give up Garland though, even if he were to only be here one more year. In my opinion the entire mindset of the Sox has changed. The goal is not so much the long term success of the team as much as it is a win now attitude. Under that kind of mindset you do not worry what happens to Garland after this 06 if you think he will be critical to a repeat.

ChiSoxIn06
12-01-2005, 03:16 PM
With garland turning the 3 year down, DEFINATLY

when did this happen?

Deuce
12-01-2005, 03:58 PM
when did this happen?Today. It's in the clubhouse.

Banix12
12-01-2005, 04:18 PM
I'd make the trade though I'm fairly confident Vazquez wouldn't ok it.

Ol' No. 2
12-01-2005, 04:34 PM
I'd make the trade though I'm fairly confident Vazquez wouldn't ok it.He's got nothing to say about it. He gets to nix 6 teams, and the Sox aren't one of them. His main reason for wanting to get out of Arizona is the distance from his home in Puerto Rico. He wants to make it easier on his family, who fly back and forth to see him during the season. Pretty understandable. I don't think the flying time from Chicago to Puerto Rico is that much different than from New York or Boston, but it's a lot shorter than from Phoenix. And I think under Cooper's tutelage, he could really develop into the pitcher he's always been capable of being. Kenny was really after him last year, so I could see this deal going down.

Chisox003
12-01-2005, 04:40 PM
He's got nothing to say about it. He gets to nix 6 teams, and the Sox aren't one of them. His main reason for wanting to get out of Arizona is the distance from his home in Puerto Rico. He wants to make it easier on his family, who fly back and forth to see him during the season. Pretty understandable. I don't think the flying time from Chicago to Puerto Rico is that much different than from New York or Boston, but it's a lot shorter than from Phoenix. And I think under Cooper's tutelage, he could really develop into the pitcher he's always been capable of being. Kenny was really after him last year, so I could see this deal going down.
Kenny was really after him, and there were also plenty of rumors about Cintron floating around too. That's why I said it would make sense for him to come, but I had no idea Vasquez was only limited to 6 specific teams that he could reject a trade to.

That said, this trade might have a much better chance than I originally thought. Vasquez does have front of the rotation "stuff," so maybe Coop could work some magic.....

Hmm...

hose
12-01-2005, 04:53 PM
Yes. Harris is out of options, and I'm not sure there is a place for him on the 2006 White Sox. Cintron can back up more positions and he may have some options left. Vazquez is signed through 2007 and with the Yankees paying $3M of each year's salary, he's not much more expensive than Garland.

You make a pretty good argument for the trade. As much as I like Big Jon it makes sense if he doesn't except a contract offer from Kenny, plus Cintron can play 2nd, SS, and 3rd.

caulfield12
12-01-2005, 06:30 PM
He's got nothing to say about it. He gets to nix 6 teams, and the Sox aren't one of them. His main reason for wanting to get out of Arizona is the distance from his home in Puerto Rico. He wants to make it easier on his family, who fly back and forth to see him during the season. Pretty understandable. I don't think the flying time from Chicago to Puerto Rico is that much different than from New York or Boston, but it's a lot shorter than from Phoenix. And I think under Cooper's tutelage, he could really develop into the pitcher he's always been capable of being. Kenny was really after him last year, so I could see this deal going down.

Why would the D-Backs want Garland unless they could sign him long-term, like the White Sox did with Garcia?

They are in a rebuilding mode, unless they really want to dump Vasquez, it does not make much sense.

We cannot assume Cooper is The Miracle Worker (see Garland, Contreras, Loaiza, Politte, Cotts, etc.) and can get the best out of Javier too.

OTOH, I would probably rather have Vazquez than Matt Morris, Loaiza, Millwood, etc...maybe Millwood, but it would never happen that we would trade Garland to Cleveland, and we are in no position to add a $10 million dollar FA to an already overloaded rotation.

jerry myers
12-01-2005, 06:58 PM
mark me down for a yes.

Al Franken AA
12-01-2005, 10:14 PM
Vasquez is a strange pitcher, but very talented and Cintron can really hit. He'd be a solid insurance policy for any of our infielders should they get hurt. I'm just not sold on Garland and with his free agency coming up, I highly doubt the Sox could sign him.

Ol' No. 2
12-02-2005, 01:36 PM
Why would the D-Backs want Garland unless they could sign him long-term, like the White Sox did with Garcia?

They are in a rebuilding mode, unless they really want to dump Vasquez, it does not make much sense.

We cannot assume Cooper is The Miracle Worker (see Garland, Contreras, Loaiza, Politte, Cotts, etc.) and can get the best out of Javier too.

OTOH, I would probably rather have Vazquez than Matt Morris, Loaiza, Millwood, etc...maybe Millwood, but it would never happen that we would trade Garland to Cleveland, and we are in no position to add a $10 million dollar FA to an already overloaded rotation.Vazquez was traded in the middle of his contract and has exercised his right to demand a trade. The Snakes have to oblige him before Mar 15, or he can become a FA. They would easily be able to afford to re-sign Garland for the same or less money than they are paying Vazquez.

Javier Vazquez looked like an absolute stud in Montreal, then the Yankees ruined him. (How is it that they ruin so many good young pitchers?) But he has front of the rotation stuff. In a good environment, I have no doubt he'll be a standout pitcher. And he's signed for two years while Garland can walk after 2006. Add in the Cintron for Harris and I think it's a deal with a lot to be said for it.

beckett21
12-02-2005, 02:55 PM
Put me down in favor of this one. Makes a lot of sense to me.

Al Franken AA
12-02-2005, 03:00 PM
Why would the D-Backs want Garland unless they could sign him long-term, like the White Sox did with Garcia?



Vasquez has demanded to be traded so the D-Backs have to deal him...
Also, they are not shy about throwing around money. Just look at the overpriced players (Glaus, Green, Ortiz, Clayton) they already have on their dreadful team.

mdep524
12-02-2005, 03:02 PM
[December 2004] Konerko and Garland for Vazquez. [/December 2004]

champagne030
12-02-2005, 03:36 PM
FWIW -

Javy Vazquez rumblings
The Braves keep showing up in mentions of Javier Vazquez (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=5947)'s potential destinations. But an official of one team that spoke with them said starting pitching is way down the Braves' list of priorities. One team that did make a quiet run at Vazquez was the White Sox. But those talks fell apart, at least for now, when the Sox sent Aaron Rowand (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=6742) to the Phillies in the Jim Thome (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=4762) deal.

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2243486

Need to be an Insider.....

SoxFanTillDeath
12-02-2005, 04:05 PM
NO!!! This trade makes a ton of sense on the Sox side, but I really like Jon Garland. Can we just do the thing that doesn't make sense and not make this trade? I guess that's simply wishful thinking, but I want to keep JG on the Southside, especially now that he's realized how to pitch in the majors!

Cubsuck_a_lot
12-02-2005, 04:17 PM
[December 2004] Konerko and Garland for Vazquez. [/December 2004]

hahaha, it's funny cuz it's true. well played

Optipessimism
12-02-2005, 04:53 PM
If traded here, couldn't Javier just demand to be traded again? Is there a certain amount of times you can demand a trade?

If he did come here and did want to stay he would make for a worthwhile project. The only negative here is the same thing that may happen with Jose in that we get a guy with a ton of potential, point him in the right direction, and then when he finally gets there we have only one year to reap the benefit before he bolts for FA. That said, I do like Cintron a lot which makes this trade very appealing to me.

Ol' No. 2
12-02-2005, 05:03 PM
If traded here, couldn't Javier just demand to be traded again? Is there a certain amount of times you can demand a trade?He can't do it again.
If he did come here and did want to stay he would make for a worthwhile project. The only negative here is the same thing that may happen with Jose in that we get a guy with a ton of potential, point him in the right direction, and then when he finally gets there we have only one year to reap the benefit before he bolts for FA. That said, I do like Cintron a lot which makes this trade very appealing to me.He's got two years left on his contract, while Garland (assuming they don't sign him to a multi-year deal) can walk after 2006. So the Sox wind up getting one more year of stability, and the Snakes would be more than willing to sign Garland to a nice multi-year deal.

The Snakes are looking for a CF and leadoff man, and the Sox don't have one of those to spare. But trading Vazquez opens a hole in their rotation that Garland would fill. Ortiz blew chunks last year (and I wanted him for the Sox last winter:redface:), and Estes is a FA. This whole trade makes a lot of sense all around - which is why it won't happen.

caulfield12
12-03-2005, 09:32 AM
If traded here, couldn't Javier just demand to be traded again? Is there a certain amount of times you can demand a trade?

If he did come here and did want to stay he would make for a worthwhile project. The only negative here is the same thing that may happen with Jose in that we get a guy with a ton of potential, point him in the right direction, and then when he finally gets there we have only one year to reap the benefit before he bolts for FA. That said, I do like Cintron a lot which makes this trade very appealing to me.

Well, look what we did with Loaiza...we turned him around after paying nothing to acquire him in talent (besides his split major-minor contract) and then flipped him for Contreras.

That move, along with Jenks, might go down as the best of the relatively young KW regime.

As far as Vasquez goes, you have those 2-3 windows when you can keep your pitching intact, and you have to keep improving or fall back to the pack.

At least we have it staggered so the worst-case scenario is still having Buehrle, Garcia and McCarthy for the 2007 season.

Tragg
12-03-2005, 09:52 AM
I am sure that if we offered JG the same salary that Vasquez makes (something ridiculous even in this market like 11 or 12 mill a year) he'd have inked. So, I don't see the point of getting some player so that we won't lose Garland, when we wouldn't lose Garland if we paid him what we're paying the other player.
Not suggesting paying Garland that kind of money;

Jjav829
12-04-2005, 04:29 PM
From Gammons' latest column:

The White Sox said they were interested in Vazquez, but the Diamondbacks wanted to tie Glaus to him.

Well, maybe the D'backs will drop the Glaus idea as the offseason moves on and Kenny will jump back in.

Also, Gammons talks a few times about Bill Mueller, making it sound like this is a 3-team battle between the Sox, Twins and Dodgers. If Mueller wants to start then the Twins and Dodgers are obviously better situations for him.

Tragg
12-04-2005, 05:47 PM
I still find it hard to believe that we would want to pay a pitcher, who's ERA each of the last two years has been above the league's median, $11 million a year, when we could sign any of our starters to a LT contract for much less than that. He must be another one of those "great stuff" pitchers who can't put it together.

Aside from the injury factor, Glaus comes closer to earning his salary than Vasquez does his.

nodiggity59
12-04-2005, 05:53 PM
I still find it hard to believe that we would want to pay a pitcher, who's ERA each of the last two years has been above the league's median, $11 million a year, when we could sign any of our starters to a LT contract for much less than that. He must be another one of those "great stuff" pitchers who can't put it together.

Aside from the injury factor, Glaus comes closer to earning his salary than Vasquez does his.

Yanks kicked in about $3mil per year for Vasquez. He'd be about $8mil a year. JG will not sign for that.

Tragg
12-04-2005, 06:05 PM
Yanks kicked in about $3mil per year for Vasquez. He'd be about $8mil a year. JG will not sign for that.
Do those kick-ins transfer with the player?

CallMeNuts
12-04-2005, 07:38 PM
Do those kick-ins transfer with the player?

I was under the impression that the "kick-ins" may or may not transfer with the player. The determining factor is what the two teams (Sox & D-Backs) negotiate as part of the new deal. But for all practical purposes, I would imagine that Vazquez would be untradeable without the D-Backs forwading the financial considerations to the team that is picking him up.

AS KW works on building the Sox dynasty of the decade, I'm concerned about the fact that two of our starting pitchers (JG & JC) qualify for free agency after 2006, and I find it difficult to believe that we will have the resources to re-sign both. Since JG has turned down a 3-year contract, I think it is in the teams best interests to work out a trade for a quality pitcher that is signed longer term.

Vasquez qualifies. If JV wants to be closer to Puerto Rico, Chicago qualifies. Chicago & NYC are both around 5 hours by air from San Juan. Both Chicago & NY are direct flights. There are no direct flights form San Juan to Phoenix.

Cooper & El Duque would be beneficial in helping JV maximize his potential.

If JG wants to sign longer term, I'd be happy to keep him. If not, let's consider moving him before we lose him. I wonder if JG has California on his mind. Maybe AZ could sign him longer term than we could.

gowhitesox
12-04-2005, 07:46 PM
No way!!

rowand33
12-04-2005, 08:06 PM
Vazquez sucks, guys.

I thought he was gonna have an amazing rebound year last year and he just didn't. 12-10 with a 4.42.... no thank you.

sure, Gar can walk after next year, but I'm thinking about a world series next year. I think Garland's a better bet to help us get back there.

Oh, and Alex Cintron? no thanks. give me Bill Mueller as my bench guy.

Tragg
12-04-2005, 10:38 PM
I was under the impression that the "kick-ins" may or may not transfer with the player. The determining factor is what the two teams (Sox & D-Backs) negotiate as part of the new deal. But for all practical purposes, I would imagine that Vazquez would be untradeable without the D-Backs forwading the financial considerations to the team that is picking him up.

AS KW works on building the Sox dynasty of the decade, I'm concerned about the fact that two of our starting pitchers (JG & JC) qualify for free agency after 2006, and I find it difficult to believe that we will have the resources to re-sign both. Since JG has turned down a 3-year contract, I think it is in the teams best interests to work out a trade for a quality pitcher that is signed longer term.

Vasquez qualifies. If JV wants to be closer to Puerto Rico, Chicago qualifies. Chicago & NYC are both around 5 hours by air from San Juan. Both Chicago & NY are direct flights. There are no direct flights form San Juan to Phoenix.

Cooper & El Duque would be beneficial in helping JV maximize his potential.

If JG wants to sign longer term, I'd be happy to keep him. If not, let's consider moving him before we lose him. I wonder if JG has California on his mind. Maybe AZ could sign him longer term than we could.
That's a conern, but how much longer is Vasquez signed for? 2 more years? He's not that productive anyway. We'll have to open up the checkbook to keep the key pitchers, no doubt.