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View Full Version : Manny to the Phillies? ( Rowand would go to Boston )


Fenway
12-01-2005, 11:55 AM
The NY POST started this and now WIP in Philly saying the same thing.


December 1, 2005 -- The Mets wounded the Phillies by acquiring Billy Wagner, Philadelphia's former closer. But the Phillies have set their sights on a player the Mets have coveted: Manny Ramirez.

Philadelphia and Boston have engaged in serious talks about swapping Ramirez for Bobby Abreu, The Post has learned.

Abreu was shopped by new Philly GM Pat Gillick during the GM meetings in early November. Full story (http://www.nypost.com/sports/58697.htm)


WIP is also saying that Boston is demanding Aaron Rowand as part of the deal, Gammons on WEEI says this may happen.


http://www.nypost.com/img/back120105.gif (http://www.nypost.com/sports/sports.shtml)

Tekijawa
12-01-2005, 11:57 AM
Wow Phillies wow... This would be one of the worst moves they could make? You're OF defence, which they just upgraded, would DROP drastically and... wow... Manny is good but Jeez. Red Sox would be stupid not to do this. Even if it takes a few Bucks.

NonetheLoaiza
12-01-2005, 11:59 AM
I agree....If the Phillies were smart, they would keep Rowand and Abreu...

Flight #24
12-01-2005, 12:02 PM
IMO if you can deal Abreu+Michaels (replaced by Rowand in CF), you've upgraded your O significantly and Rowand helps mitigate Manny's adventures in LF.

Fenway
12-01-2005, 12:05 PM
I agree....If the Phillies were smart, they would keep Rowand and Abreu...

Manny might think he is back in Cleveland :D:

Abreu may have problems with the deep right field in Boston and he and Terry Francona have a history that isn't good.

Phillies fans ponder
NYPOST: Manny for Abreu??? (http://www.philaphans.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=33986) ( http://www.philaphans.com/forums/images/multipage.gif 1 (http://www.philaphans.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=33986&perpage=15&pagenumber=1) 2 (http://www.philaphans.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=33986&perpage=15&pagenumber=2) 3 (http://www.philaphans.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=33986&perpage=15&pagenumber=3) )






http://www.photofile.com/Photos/Albums/Stadiums/MLB/Images/CitizensBankPark-04-001.jpg

http://art.globegoblin.com/images/products/large/10106000/10106927.jpg

mdep524
12-01-2005, 12:11 PM
If the Phillies trade Abreu and Rowand for Manny Frickin' Ramirez the fans in Philly will be pining for Ed Wade by the end of the week. That is a pretty bad trade for the Phillies, and it COMPLETELY bails the Red Sox out of their problem. I mean that would be an amazing haul for Boston. If the Red Sox come into 2006 with Aaron Rowand, Bobby Abreu, Mike Lowell, Guillermo Mota and Josh Beckett... I'd say that's a damn steal of an offseason.

Over By There
12-01-2005, 12:17 PM
Wow, I would do this in a heartbeat if I were the Red Sox. Manny is a tremendous offensive player, but Abreu is no slouch, and he throws some speed on the basepaths into the equation. Throw in Rowand, too, and this is a no-brainer.

PorkChopExpress
12-01-2005, 12:18 PM
If the Phillies trade Abreu and Rowand for Manny Frickin' Ramirez the fans in Philly will be pining for Ed Wade by the end of the week. That is a pretty bad trade for the Phillies, and it COMPLETELY bails the Red Sox out of their problem. I mean that would be an amazing haul for Boston. If the Red Sox come into 2006 with Aaron Rowand, Bobby Abreu, Mike Lowell, Guillermo Mota and Josh Beckett... I'd say that's a damn steal of an offseason.

It always seems to me that some team is always going out of there way to bail out either Boston or the Yankees in the offseason. It may be just me, but I can't stand when I see either of those teams pull off a trade that appears blatantly one-sided.

mdep524
12-01-2005, 12:44 PM
It always seems to me that some team is always going out of there way to bail out either Boston or the Yankees in the offseason. It may be just me, but I can't stand when I see either of those teams pull off a trade that appears blatantly one-sided. It's not just you.

Hokiesox
12-01-2005, 01:16 PM
Boston would have to install some serious padding on that weird corner they have in CF. I am envisioning Arow smashing his face into that corner a la a hockey check into the corner board by the bench.

Hagan
12-01-2005, 03:13 PM
On espn insider today they said that this trade was very highly unlikely and will not happen.

kittle42
12-01-2005, 03:55 PM
Overheard on ESPN news update:

"It looks now like Boston was the only team contemplating that move."

Ha!

MHOUSE
12-01-2005, 04:11 PM
Ok, throwing in Rowand is a terrible idea. But Manny for Abreu? That's a great deal. Abreu is a great player, but you're talking 40 homers 140 RBI in the AL, he might improve that in the NL. If they kept Rowand he would help the defense of having Ramirez and Burrell growing roots at the corners. But then imagine the lineup:

Rollins SS
Rowand CF
Manny LF
Utley 2B
Burrell RF
Howard 1B
Bell 3B
Lieberthal C

That's a pretty powerful 3-6 and a decent top of the order too. I'd do this deal in a heartbeat if I were Philly, contigent on keeping Rowand and maybe packaging Michaels and/or Gavin Floyd with Abreu.

DickAllen72
12-01-2005, 10:47 PM
I would take Abreu over Ramirez any day of the week. The Phillies would be fools to trade Abreu for Manny straight up, let alone including Aaron Rowand.

ilsox7
12-01-2005, 10:50 PM
Overheard on ESPN news update:

"It looks now like Boston was the only team contemplating that move."

Ha!

See, Boston really is in their own little world.

balke
12-01-2005, 10:58 PM
Hahaha. I'd love to see the Phillies throw away pitching and defense to acquire yet MORE hitting. Didn't work for us Philly, don't know how its going to work for you.

California Sox
12-01-2005, 11:03 PM
Ok, throwing in Rowand is a terrible idea. But Manny for Abreu? That's a great deal. Abreu is a great player, but you're talking 40 homers 140 RBI in the AL, he might improve that in the NL. If they kept Rowand he would help the defense of having Ramirez and Burrell growing roots at the corners. But then imagine the lineup:

Rollins SS
Rowand CF
Manny LF
Utley 2B
Burrell RF
Howard 1B
Bell 3B
Lieberthal C

That's a pretty powerful 3-6 and a decent top of the order too. I'd do this deal in a heartbeat if I were Philly, contigent on keeping Rowand and maybe packaging Michaels and/or Gavin Floyd with Abreu.

I'm not a defense-obsessed person but that very well could be the worst defensive outfield ever. Ramirez is a horrible outfielder. Burrell is a first baseman playing the outfield. Rowand would lose 60 lbs. trying to cover ground between those guys.

Gillick is much smarter than I am, but why he is contemplating moving Bobby Abreu is beyond me.

Lip Man 1
12-02-2005, 01:52 AM
Jayson Stark from ESPN is already saying the 'deal' is off because the Phillies want a top of the line starter for Bobby and those are few and far between, plus his contract is worth 15 million a season. Again few teams willing to take that on.

Lip

antitwins13
12-02-2005, 01:54 AM
How sick would that make the outfield defense for Boston with Damon in center and Rowand in right? Sheesh!

doublem23
12-02-2005, 03:57 AM
How sick would that make the outfield defense for Boston with Damon in center and Rowand in right? Sheesh!

A) Johnny Damon is a free agent.

B) I think you'd put your better defensive outfielder in left in Fenway because of the Green Monster. Right field in Fenway is a piece of cake, as long as you remember the ball will roll with the curve and not bounce out the way it will at every other corner. However, you need a guy who can read bounces and the flight of the ball well in LF.

Just my opinion.

Coolpapa
12-02-2005, 04:08 AM
If the Phillies trade Abreu and Rowand for Manny Frickin' Ramirez the fans in Philly will be pining for Ed Wade by the end of the week. That is a pretty bad trade for the Phillies, and it COMPLETELY bails the Red Sox out of their problem. I mean that would be an amazing haul for Boston. If the Red Sox come into 2006 with Aaron Rowand, Bobby Abreu, Mike Lowell, Guillermo Mota and Josh Beckett... I'd say that's a damn steal of an offseason.

All that action WITHOUT Theo..............

Optipessimism
12-02-2005, 09:43 AM
Jayson Stark from ESPN is already saying the 'deal' is off because the Phillies want a top of the line starter for Bobby and those are few and far between, plus his contract is worth 15 million a season. Again few teams willing to take that on.

Lip

Abreu + 5mil in 2006 for Garland + Dye

L Pods LF
R Uribe SS
L Abreu RF
R Konerko 1B
L Thome DH
R Iguchi 2B
L Pierzynski C
R Crede 3B
R Anderson CF

Rotation: Buehrle, Contreras, Garcia, McCarthy, El Duque/FA

soxfan26
12-02-2005, 09:58 AM
Abreu + 5mil in 2006 for Garland + Dye

:bong:

soxfanreggie
12-02-2005, 10:13 AM
I don't think the Sox are going to want to take on another big contract like that. Sending $5 mil to the Phils in addition to having to consider re-signiner Burls and Garcia soon? Sorry man, but I disagree.

As for the Phils, this would be a stupid trade. For Boston, it's a steal. They really aren't eating Manny's contract because the payroll swap would be about even. The one thing though...look at how much a team like Boston or NY eats in contracts. The Red Sox had to take on Mike Lowell's contract in addition to paying Beckett. With Mueller being a FA, they brought in a good defensive 3B but he's not worth anywhere near the $9 mil or so he gets paid. I do have to say, it was a great move by the Marlins. Everyone says they are having a fire sale...I say it's freeing up money through players they don't want. This will give them a chance to re-build their team around their core nucleus of players.

D. TODD
12-02-2005, 11:28 AM
A) Johnny Damon is a free agent.

B) I think you'd put your better defensive outfielder in left in Fenway because of the Green Monster. Right field in Fenway is a piece of cake, as long as you remember the ball will roll with the curve and not bounce out the way it will at every other corner. However, you need a guy who can read bounces and the flight of the ball well in LF.

Just my opinion. I've always heard that right feild in Fenway is one of the toughest to play.

doublem23
12-02-2005, 11:37 AM
I've always heard that right feild in Fenway is one of the toughest to play.

It very well could be. This is just the opinion I've formulated of the place from watching maybe 4-5 Red Sox games at Fenway a year. Having never actually played in Fenway Park, of course, I have no real experience with the place, just some casual observations from a former centerfielder. I personally think the outfield there must be brutal, no matter what, because of all the goofy angles in the walls.

pythons007
12-02-2005, 11:54 AM
Philly would be stupid to take this. Abreu is a 5 tool player! Manny is a headcase and can't play D. Just plain stupid...but again its all Boston talk, everything revolves around them and their nonsense.

Fenway
12-02-2005, 12:02 PM
Philly would be stupid to take this. Abreu is a 5 tool player! Manny is a headcase and can't play D. Just plain stupid...but again its all Boston talk, everything revolves around them and their nonsense.

We are the Hub of the Universe

and the rumor started in the NY Post :rolleyes:

soxfan26
12-02-2005, 12:23 PM
We are the Hub of the Universe

and the rumor started in the NY Post :rolleyes:

:tealtutor:

socko82
12-02-2005, 01:05 PM
How sick would that make the outfield defense for Boston with Damon in center and Rowand in right? Sheesh!

I think if they were to aquire Rowand it would signal goodbye to Damon. Possibly the Red Sox are just another team tired of dealing with Boras and his ridiculous demands. Watch Damon sign in late February with Detroit. They seem to be Boras' bitch the last few years. Overpaying for Boras clients when no one else is willing to deal with him. Damon, Pudge and Magglio can all sit around, count their cash and whine about not winning.

Fenway
12-02-2005, 01:10 PM
http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/13308226.htm

Ol' No. 2
12-02-2005, 01:57 PM
It very well could be. This is just the opinion I've formulated of the place from watching maybe 4-5 Red Sox games at Fenway a year. Having never actually played in Fenway Park, of course, I have no real experience with the place, just some casual observations from a former centerfielder. I personally think the outfield there must be brutal, no matter what, because of all the goofy angles in the walls.I always thought of LF in Fenway as being the easiest. If Manny Ramirez can do it, anyone can. The only real skill you need is to be able to read the carom off the wall.

MHOUSE
12-02-2005, 04:43 PM
I think if they were to aquire Rowand it would signal goodbye to Damon. Possibly the Red Sox are just another team tired of dealing with Boras and his ridiculous demands. Watch Damon sign in late February with Detroit. They seem to be Boras' bitch the last few years. Overpaying for Boras clients when no one else is willing to deal with him. Damon, Pudge and Magglio can all sit around, count their cash and whine about not winning.

Boras is ridiculous. He's asking like 7 years for Damon. He's a great hitter and really helps the offense getting on base at the top of the order, but he's in his 30s, has zero arm in CF, and wasn't he hurt some of last year? I can't commit to a woman for more than a few months, how could a team be expected to commit to someone for 7 years? Far too much can happen in that timespan for the deal to go sour.

maurice
12-02-2005, 06:35 PM
LMAO at the thought of Rowand being traded for 2 different HOF sluggers in a single offseason. Makes for a heck of an exclamation point on his pro resume:

1998
Drafted by Chicago White Sox

1998-2001
Sox farmhand

2001-05
Sox outfielder

Fall 2005
Won World Series
Traded for Jim Thome
Traded for Manny Ramirez