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Canadian_SoxFan
12-01-2005, 01:54 AM
I was wondering how everyone thought the bullpen would shape up next year. I think Jenks, Politte, and Cotts are back for sure. It also looks as if Marte will be back, which is good because I think he really turned a corner in the playoffs. Hernandez should be back as a long reliever/spot starter, which gives us insurance in case a starter goes down. That leaves 1 spot open for either Vizcaino or Hermanson. They will have to trade one of them, and I think right now Vizcaino may be bring in more because of Hermanson's back problems. This is of course the Sox take 6 relievers, which is what they should do.

getonbckthr
12-01-2005, 02:09 AM
I was wondering how everyone thought the bullpen would shape up next year. I think Jenks, Politte, and Cotts are back for sure. It also looks as if Marte will be back, which is good because I think he really turned a corner in the playoffs. Hernandez should be back as a long reliever/spot starter, which gives us insurance in case a starter goes down. That leaves 1 spot open for either Vizcaino or Hermanson. They will have to trade one of them, and I think right now Vizcaino may be bring in more because of Hermanson's back problems. This is of course the Sox take 6 relievers, which is what they should do.Because we are an American league team we need 12 pitchers. It should break down like this:
5 SP's
Closer, set up, 2 lefties, 2 righties, and a general long reliever. So:
SP1- Buerhle, SP2-Garcia, SP3- JG, SP-4 Contreras, SP5- BMac
Clo- Jenks, SU-Politte, LHPs- Cotts, ????, RHP-???,???, Long-????.
To fill in the question marks I would like to see Mike Myers replace Damaso. For the RHP's we can choose from Hermy, Viz, and Bajaneru. Long man will probably be El DUque unfortunately.

Canadian_SoxFan
12-01-2005, 02:14 AM
Because we are an American league team we need 12 pitchers. It should break down like this:
5 SP's
Closer, set up, 2 lefties, 2 righties, and a general long reliever. So:
SP1- Buerhle, SP2-Garcia, SP3- JG, SP-4 Contreras, SP5- BMac
Clo- Jenks, SU-Politte, LHPs- Cotts, ????, RHP-???,???, Long-????.
To fill in the question marks I would like to see Mike Myers replace Damaso. For the RHP's we can choose from Hermy, Viz, and Bajaneru. Long man will probably be El DUque unfortunately. IIRC last year, most of the time we only used 6 relievers which gave us 5 bench spots. I know some teams use 12 pitchers, but no teams that are as strong pitching wise as the Sox. I don't see any way we use 12 pitchers next year. We need 5 bench spots, not 4.

getonbckthr
12-01-2005, 02:16 AM
IIRC last year, most of the time we only used 6 relievers which gave us 5 bench spots. I know some teams use 12 pitchers, but no teams that are as strong pitching wise as the Sox. I don't see any way we use 12 pitchers next year. We need 5 bench spots, not 4.
In that case whats your staff gonna look like.

TheOldRoman
12-01-2005, 02:18 AM
Because we are an American league team we need 12 pitchers. It should break down like this:
5 SP's
Closer, set up, 2 lefties, 2 righties, and a general long reliever. So:
SP1- Buerhle, SP2-Garcia, SP3- JG, SP-4 Contreras, SP5- BMac
Clo- Jenks, SU-Politte, LHPs- Cotts, ????, RHP-???,???, Long-????.
To fill in the question marks I would like to see Mike Myers replace Damaso. For the RHP's we can choose from Hermy, Viz, and Bajaneru. Long man will probably be El DUque unfortunately.
Umm, we dont NEED to have any number of pitchers just because we are in the AL.
We went through most of 2005 with 11 pitchers. Buehrle, Jose, Freddy, Garland, El Duque, Viz, Bobby or Shingo, Cotts, Pollitte, Marte, and Hermanson. Our starters go so deep into games that we don't need any more than 6 relievers. We benefit more from having extra bench hitters to keep our position players fresh.

Canadian_SoxFan
12-01-2005, 02:21 AM
In that case whats your staff gonna look like. Jenks, Politte, Cotts, Marte, Hernandez, Vizcaino

Banix12
12-01-2005, 02:25 AM
They are probably all coming back depending on whether they are going to go with 11 or 12 pitchers. If it comes down to 11 pitchers I think it is a battle between Hernandez and Viz. Hermanson has the back problems but I think he has earned the benefit of the doubt and I truthfully have not reached a point where I totally trust Jenks as the closer and I trust Hermanson enough to be closer insurance, even with the back trouble.

As much as I would love to replace Marte I really detest just about every lefty relief Free Agent option and lefties aren't aren't all that easy to acquire through trade. Maybe Myers but he doesn't exactly do much for me. No way ozzie goes with just 1 Lefty so I think Marte returns.

Though if they do find another guy and marte goes I certainly won't be crying about it.

getonbckthr
12-01-2005, 02:36 AM
Essential it comes down to 2 of this 3: Hermy, Duque or Viz. Thats why I think we are better off with 12 pitchers.

Banix12
12-01-2005, 02:45 AM
Essential it comes down to 2 of this 3: Hermy, Duque or Viz. Thats why I think we are better off with 12 pitchers.

What I could see happening is if coming out of spring training all of these guys are still around they could start the year with 12 pitchers and basically hold an extended competition for a final slot for the first month of the season or so.

I do think eventually it will get down to 11 pitchers though because I think they might need the extra bench slot. But of course they aren't married to it, they switched from 11 to 12 pitchers a couple of times last year.

antitwins13
12-01-2005, 09:42 AM
Jenks, Marte, Politte, Hernandez, Cotts, Hermanson, Shingo

Chisox003
12-01-2005, 09:46 AM
Mike Jackson, Billy Simas, Billy Koch, Shingo, Rick White, and Kelly Wunsch

:o:

NorthSideSox72
12-01-2005, 09:53 AM
Essential it comes down to 2 of this 3: Hermy, Duque or Viz. Thats why I think we are better off with 12 pitchers.

Ozzie had 11 most of last year, and some teams even do just 10. I doubt Ozzie will go 12 and have only 4 bench guys - you have to remember how much Ozzie likes resting his starting position players.

Bullpen:

Closer: Jenks:
Setup/L: Cotts
Setup/R: Politte
Middle/L: Replacement for Marte, or Marte
Middle/R: Vizcaino
Long: El Duque

El Duque is great for the long relief spot, since he can spot start as needed (though he is a bit pricey for that spot). Helps keep the starting staff fresh. Jenks, Cotts and Politte are obvious. Vizcaino did very well in mid-relief last year, and he's cheap, so no reason to mess with that. Marte should be replaced if possible.

That leaves one odd man out - Hermanson. With his back the way it is, and his salary level, my bet is that they encourage him to have surgery for the back issue (and collect on insurance against his salary), or they try to trade him if possible.

Chicken Dinner
12-01-2005, 10:16 AM
Hermy is due about 2.75 mil for 2006. Looks like Viz will be the odd man out.



http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005_01_23_mlbcontracts_archive.html

SoxSpeed22
12-01-2005, 10:20 AM
Mike Jackson, Billy Simas, Billy Koch, Shingo, Rick White, and Kelly Wunsch

:o:I agree, except throw in Howry.
:bundy

NorthSideSox72
12-01-2005, 10:24 AM
Hermy is due about 2.75 mil for 2006. Looks like Viz will be the odd man out.

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005_01_23_mlbcontracts_archive.html

Um... why? Hermy is more expensive as you point out, and will likely be injured - why pick him over Viz?

Chicken Dinner
12-01-2005, 10:31 AM
Um... why? Hermy is more expensive as you point out, and will likely be injured - why pick him over Viz?

Because he's under contract so your going to have to pay him. I'm sure his trade value is minimal due to his chronic back issues. You sign Viz to a minor league contract and bring him up if you have an injury problem.

mdep524
12-01-2005, 10:31 AM
It also looks as if Marte will be back, which is good because I think he really turned a corner in the playoffs. :?: His Boston performance was nothing short of a disaster. His World Series appearance wasn't horrible, but certainly wasn't significant or long-lasting enough to prove he "turned a corner." Plus, the emergence of Cotts as a lefty set up man that can pitch a full inning makes Marte's role a LOOGY- and he's terrible in that role. The sooner we can ship him out of town the better.

R-Jenks- closer, to start anyway
R-Hermanson- if his back is OK, how can you not have this guy in the 'pen, considering how well he did last year? Plus he is great insurance in case Jenks struggles as closer.
R-Politte- duh.
L-Cotts- I hope Ozzie gives Cotts more complete innings next year, as opposed to just one batter at a time
L-Mike Myers- tailor made LOOGY, just the way Ozzie likes to manage
R-Hernandez- not destined to last, but we could start the season with him as a long reliever in the 'pen.

daveeym
12-01-2005, 10:46 AM
I think they take the old Bulls strategy of keeping them all and rotating the bottom 3 or 4 through the DL for various "ailments." This keeps them all fresh and helps out guys like El Duque and Hermanson. Hell even Marte.

NorthSideSox72
12-01-2005, 01:19 PM
Because he's under contract so your going to have to pay him. I'm sure his trade value is minimal due to his chronic back issues. You sign Viz to a minor league contract and bring him up if you have an injury problem.

If Hermy is injured for any significant portion of the season, they collect on insurance, to offset the salary. And because he'd be hard to trade, that's why I would encourage him to go have the surgery, and be ready to come back sometime late in the season. At that point, you may need him, or you can trade him.

And besides, looking at the 2nd half of the season, Viz was excellent, whereas Hermy was falling down. I see no good argument to keep Hermy over Viz.

MHOUSE
12-01-2005, 03:06 PM
Hermanson is under contract and will probably be back, leaving Vizcaino as the odd man out. I would love to see Viz at AAA as a 12th pitcher/insurance policy, but he's a decent reliever and might get signed elsewhere (northside for $12 mil? LOL) instead of taking a ML contract here. I think Mike Myers is close to a deal with the Yankees or at least talking to them. Unless Marte were to be traded, I think he is back.

BV2005
12-01-2005, 09:04 PM
I would go something like this:

Starters:
-Burhlee
-Contreras
-Garland
-Garcia
-MaCarthy

MR - Cliff Politte
MR - Lefty? (we need to improve on Marte)

SU - Neil Cotts
SU - Dustin Hermanson

LR - El Duque

Closer - Bobby Jenks