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View Full Version : Southtown responds to Greeley's garbage


Dolly
11-30-2005, 01:35 AM
I was just about to get rid of the Sunday paper when I noticed this on page A5. (For those of you who missed Greeley's article after the Sox won the World Series, here it is: http://www.suntimes.com/output/gree...dt-greel28.html)



Greeley's column out of line
As a subscriber to the Southtown for over 25 years, I have read many editorials and Public Forums that I have not agreed with but have understood that freedom of speech is essential in a democracy.

However, Andrew Greeley's column "Hail to the White Sox (with reservations)" on Oct. 26, 2005, used that freedom to engage in ethnic slurring and stereotyping. Why is his column continuing to appear in the Southtown without an apology or retraction by Father Greeley? To Father Greeley: As Catholics, aren't we taught we are all equal in the eyes of God?

Palos Park

Response: Managing editor Dennis Robaugh, an Indians fan, didn't care for Andrew Greeley's opinion piece on Sox fans either. Greeley made some broad generalizations. Later, he told us his column was a "joke" but added that reader reaction proved his point. Nonetheless, he's entitled to his opinion and tried to make a case for it. And people who find it objectionable are entitled to write to us, too, and counter that opinion.
So, it was a "joke"? Forgive me, Father, but I thought the purpose of jokes was to be funny, not to "prove a point." I don't know about anyone else, but on occasions when I have been joking around with someone who found my joking offensive, I have apologized. I guess this man of God thinks that we Sox fans are undeserving of the kind of respect that one generally shows to fellow human beings.

Of course, as the response reminds us, every schmuck is entitled to an opinion, but in the age of political correctness, newspapers don't generally print garbage such as Greeley's. If he had written this crap about virtually any other group, not only would The Southtown/Sun-Times not print it, but I'd be willing to bet that they would never again print another of his articles. I'm sorry, but I'm having a very difficult time trying not to let this get under my skin.

So, as stated in the response, people who find it objectionable are entitled to write to them. Maybe if they hear from enough of us, they will think twice about printing enlightened opinions about Sox fans again. Here is a link to the contact info of the editorial department: http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/geninfo/about.html
(Sorry mods, not sure if I posted this in the right place.)

Sox PA
11-30-2005, 07:23 AM
To: drobaugh@dailysouthtown.com (drobaugh@dailysouthtown.com) ; news@dailysouthwown.com (news@dailysouthwown.com) ; sports@dailysouthtown.com (sports@dailysouthtown.com)
Cc: Agreel@aol.com (Agreel@aol.com)
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 8:21 AM
Subject: Andrew Greeley article


Letter To The Editor,

I, too, found the article by Andrew Greeley, "Hail to the White Sox (with reservations)" on Oct. 26, 2005, highly objectionable. I am a catholic, I am of irish descent, I am a Chicagoan that lived on both the northside (Hoffman Estates, Morton Grove) and southside (Palos Hills), and, I am a World Champion Chicago White Sox fan. As a member of all of those groups, I was insulted. His article was in poor taste and below the standards of your newspaper. It is more than a case of free speech, or a case of "sour grapes," because he goes so far in attacking several groups of people. I guess it is his bitterness at our good fortune that he has spewed such sarcasm and hatred. His article goes way beyond the good natured ribbing that exists between Cubs and Sox fans in our city (my father was a Cub fan). There was nothing funny about his article, it was extremely disrespectful to our city and especially to catholics everywhere. I am surprised that his mother didn't teach him better than that; that he did not learn one of the most basic tenets of our faith, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Andrew Greeley shames our faith by calling himself a catholic.

SOXintheBURGH
11-30-2005, 09:53 AM
To: drobaugh@dailysouthtown.com (drobaugh@dailysouthtown.com) ; news@dailysouthwown.com (news@dailysouthwown.com) ; sports@dailysouthtown.com (sports@dailysouthtown.com)
Cc: Agreel@aol.com (Agreel@aol.com)
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 8:21 AM
Subject: Andrew Greeley article


Letter To The Editor,

I, too, found the article by Andrew Greeley, "Hail to the White Sox (with reservations)" on Oct. 26, 2005, highly objectionable. I am a catholic, I am of irish descent, I am a Chicagoan that lived on both the northside (Hoffman Estates, Morton Grove) and southside (Palos Hills), and, I am a World Champion Chicago White Sox fan. As a member of all of those groups, I was insulted. His article was in poor taste and below the standards of your newspaper. It is more than a case of free speech, or a case of "sour grapes," because he goes so far in attacking several groups of people. I guess it is his bitterness at our good fortune that he has spewed such sarcasm and hatred. His article goes way beyond the good natured ribbing that exists between Cubs and Sox fans in our city (my father was a Cub fan). There was nothing funny about his article, it was extremely disrespectful to our city and especially to catholics everywhere. I am surprised that his mother didn't teach him better than that; that he did not learn one of the most basic tenets of our faith, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Andrew Greeley shames our faith by calling himself a catholic.

The last thing I want to know about any WSI member is their religion.. I am a firm believer in "Don't ask, don't tell." Thank you.

Dan Mega
11-30-2005, 10:02 AM
The last thing I want to know about any WSI member is their religion.. I am a firm believer in "Don't ask, don't tell." Thank you. Political Hijack!!

The thread is about the Southtown's and reader's response's to Greeley's article.

I'm a firm believer of "don't like it, then don't read it".

As for Greeley's article, it was insulting, not only to Catholics but to anyone, period. I didn't see the article until a friend of mine (who is a Cubs fan) was even steamed that this article went out of the way to blatantly stereotype and make insulting remarks.

Dolly
11-30-2005, 10:50 AM
The last thing I want to know about any WSI member is their religion.. I am a firm believer in "Don't ask, don't tell." Thank you.If you read Greeley's article, it does not mention being Catholic, and has nothing to do with being Catholic, or with any other religion. It was offensive to ALL Sox fans, and South Side Irish Sox fans in particular. The fact that the author just happens to be a member of the clergy makes it even more so, IMO. I would think that the article itself would infuriate you rather than a harmless comment like Sox PA's.

CaptainBallz
11-30-2005, 10:59 AM
Is there a link to the actual article?

cheeses_h_rice
11-30-2005, 11:45 AM
Is there a link to the actual article?

I think it's at http://www.stupidpieceof****.com.

You're welcome.

:)

SOXintheBURGH
11-30-2005, 11:51 AM
If you read Greeley's article, it does not mention being Catholic, and has nothing to do with being Catholic, or with any other religion. It was offensive to ALL Sox fans, and South Side Irish Sox fans in particular. The fact that the author just happens to be a member of the clergy makes it even more so, IMO. I would think that the article itself would infuriate you rather than a harmless comment like Sox PA's.

I wasn't infuriated by his comment. I also read the article and thought it was pretty piss poor myself.

CaptainBallz
11-30-2005, 12:05 PM
I think it's at http://www.stupidpieceof****.com (http://www.stupidpieceof****.com/).

You're welcome.

:)

Quick Read!

Uhh, thanks I guess. It's at carwreck status for me and I know I probably shouldn't look.

Dolly
11-30-2005, 12:06 PM
Is there a link to the actual article?I put the link in my original post, but apparently it has expired. Sorry! Basically, it says that he used to be a Sox fan until he became old enough to "know better," and goes on to spew some very hateful stereotypes about Sox fans, south siders, and the Irish. He also says that the Sox aren't a real Chicago team, and that it wasn't a real World Series that they won. Sorry to be so vague, but I am paraphrasing from what I can remember.

Sox PA
11-30-2005, 12:19 PM
If you read Greeley's article, it does not mention being Catholic, and has nothing to do with being Catholic, or with any other religion. It was offensive to ALL Sox fans, and South Side Irish Sox fans in particular. The fact that the author just happens to be a member of the clergy makes it even more so, IMO. I would think that the article itself would infuriate you rather than a harmless comment like Sox PA's.

Thanks, Dolly

You're right, he never mentioned religion and perhaps I should not have either. His disparaging remarks were irritating and although I usually ignore the rants of demented cub fans, I thought they were especially uncalled for coming from a member of the clergy.

Sox PA
11-30-2005, 12:29 PM
This article was in the Chicago Sun-Times, I found it cached on google. If not the exact same article, it is similar. http://www.suntimes.com/output/greeley/cst-edt-greel28.html

Sox rule, but those fans . . .
October 28, 2005
BY ANDREW GREELEY (agreel@aol.com)

I was a Sox fan once (Luke Appling, Ted Lyons) -- until I reached the age of reason. I had learned to listen to the radio even before I went to grammar school. Then I realized the Sox were not a winning team and deserted to the Cubs who were (Billy Herman, Gabby Hartnett) -- that too before the use of reason. I will always be a Cubs fan. It is, as Cardinal George remarked at his first press conference, a matter of faith.

But I've never hated the Sox. I rejoice that they swept the "World" series and beat up on the hated Astros. Mind you, I'm not likely to purchase a black and white cap or T-shirt or windbreaker. I was not glued to the TV for every game Yet I celebrate their victories -- I almost said "our" victories. In the presence of my colleagues at the University of Arizona I will even refer to the Sox as "we."

My only regret is that the Sox did not get a chance to destroy the even more hated New Yorkers.

I paid no attention to the excessive coverage in the Chicago media, though the city and its media are entitled to be excessive. Our championships are rare. All of us should celebrate, if modestly. It's not as though the White Sox are a real Chicago franchise like the Cubs or the Bears or Notre Dame -- none of which were one step away from exile to Devil's Island (St. Petersburg). Periodically I will reflect that if the Cubs had not foolishly dumped Matt Clement and Moises Alou, it might have been an all-Chicago World Series.

My genuine, if controlled, enthusiasm for the Pale Hose is restrained by the behavior of White Sox fans, an intolerable bunch of human beings when baseball is the subject (who beat up on wives of opposing players). They experience joy only on those days when their team wins and the Cubs lose. We Cubs fans, however, celebrate only when the Cubs win. We don't care what happens to the Sox, except when we're playing them. White Sox fans are incapable of such tolerance. They want the Cubs to lose so that their cup of joy will be full.

My seminary classmates who were Sox fans were insufferable on the days they won and we lost. More mature than they were, we Cub fans felt no need to cackle triumphantly when the Sox lost. I'm sure they will feel the same way now. Some of them would not even want a Cubs fan to cheer for a Chicago champion whose team plays on the site of the old Comiskey Park. However, those who are in heaven will have understood that tolerance must be extended even to the infidels, that is Cub fans.

Why the difference between Cubs fans and Sox fans? As a working hypothesis I attribute the difference to the fact that the South Side Irish feel culturally inferior, perhaps because of the endless ridicule they must endure from the patently cultural superior West Side Irish and the North Side Irish (such as these latter might be). Or perhaps it is fading memory of the smell from the Stock Yards.

In fact, the sense of inferiority among the South Side Irish is understandable because they have much to feel inferior about (Sorry, Mr. Mayor!).

However, it would have been wrong, seriously wrong, to want the Sox to lose. The players are not South Side Irish, indeed they are pretty much a global team, an athletic United Nations, who have rallied to bring a championship to Chicago. Let them be heralded and praised. They have done a wonderful favor for the city, even if it took a long time for their fans to learn where they played their home games.

Thoroughly disillusioned by the ineptitude of the Cubs organization, we Cubs fans can even rejoice that the national media (both the Times and the Journal) have discovered the delightful and gifted odd couple of Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen, may they live long and prosper.

Yet I look forward eagerly to the day when I can cheer for their defeat. That will happen on the glorious day when we have a Red Line series, an event which is long overdue in our city. I should live so long.

CaptainBallz
11-30-2005, 12:39 PM
Yeah, I did ask for that! Wow! What a load of garbage. How can that type of bigotry be passed off as a joke? "Culturally Inferior"? "Much to feel inferior about"?

I say let's ask for the "good father" to have his say and explain to his readers exactly what he meant by that.

Knew I shouldn't have looked!:angry:

Dick Allen
11-30-2005, 01:25 PM
I put the link in my original post, but apparently it has expired. Sorry! Basically, it says that he used to be a Sox fan until he became old enough to "know better," and goes on to spew some very hateful stereotypes about Sox fans, south siders, and the Irish. He also says that the Sox aren't a real Chicago team, and that it wasn't a real World Series that they won. Sorry to be so vague, but I am paraphrasing from what I can remember.Maybe he isn't a real human being. Loser.

Jerko
11-30-2005, 01:29 PM
I love it. A 12 paragraph article about the Sox that includes the words "we don't care what happens to the Sox".

Dolly
11-30-2005, 01:52 PM
Thanks, Dolly

You're right, he never mentioned religion and perhaps I should not have either. His disparaging remarks were irritating and although I usually ignore the rants of demented cub fans, I thought they were especially uncalled for coming from a member of the clergy.No problem... I figured that was the point you were trying to make.

kevin57
11-30-2005, 02:04 PM
Responses Greeley's article appeared elsewhere here, and I'll repeat what I said there.

I too am a Catholic priest. I too found Greeley's article to be beyond insulting. When cornered, he claims to have written it in jest. Funny, but I don't even see any "typical" comic devices in the piece.

To fellow WSI'ers. Don't take Greeley as representative. Very few priests respect him as a priest. He's lived nearly all of his priesthood outside of parishes...but never hesitates to tell us what we're doing wrong/bad. Hey, like a Cub fan...never finishing first but pontificating to Sox fans about how miserable a club we have!

Sox PA
11-30-2005, 02:13 PM
To fellow WSI'ers. Don't take Greeley as representative. Very few priests respect him as a priest.
Thanks, I'm glad to hear your comments, I don't think too many people think he is representative of any clergy. Go Sox!

Fenway
11-30-2005, 02:24 PM
When I think of the White Sox and clergy the name that comes up is
Monsignor Ignatius McDermott
http://a.abclocal.go.com/images/wls/wls_123104_father_mac.jpg

I know he founded Haymarket rehab and was a huge White Sox fan and I'm sure he was smiling from above last month.

DrCrawdad
11-30-2005, 11:05 PM
:angry:

I love how Greeley attempts to cover over his bile by later calling it a joke. I love it when people say mean, hateful things and then say, 'Hey, it was just a joke. Are you sensitive to people joking about your...'

In the end, how could I take offense from Greeley, you know just another pedophile priest. Oh, hey don't take offense that I've smeared you as a pederast, it was just a joke.

I have one more thing to say to Greeley in the Zoomian language, "**** YOU!"

:angry:

EDIT: I apologize to my fellow WSI friends for the harsh words here. To read those comments written by a so-called man of god, really, really ticks me off.