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View Full Version : Blue Jays inflate the market even more


mjmcend
11-29-2005, 12:44 PM
The Blue Jays have offered free agent Brian Giles a five-year, $55 million contract, according to the Toronto Sun.
$11 million per year through age 39? Maybe it's what the Blue Jays need to do to get him away from the West Coast, but guaranteeing him five years looks like a terrible risk. Nov. 29 - 1:15 pm et
Source: Toronto Sun (http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/MLB/Toronto/2005/11/29/1328885-sun.html)

That is a long time to sign a 35 year old. At that length, I would rather have Konerko, because of their ages when this deal expires.

Frater Perdurabo
11-29-2005, 12:52 PM
The Blue Jays have offered free agent Brian Giles a five-year, $55 million contract, according to the Toronto Sun.
$11 million per year through age 39? Maybe it's what the Blue Jays need to do to get him away from the West Coast, but guaranteeing him five years looks like a terrible risk. Nov. 29 - 1:15 pm et
Source: Toronto Sun (http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/MLB/Toronto/2005/11/29/1328885-sun.html)

That is a long time to sign a 35 year old. At that length, I would rather have Konerko, because of their ages when this deal expires.

If Kenny was serious about Giles and resigned to losing Konerko, I'd offer Giles three guaranteed years, two mutual option years (meaning both Giles and the Sox have to choose to pick up the option), and chance to play for the defending world champs, who have the very best starting rotation, 1-6, in the majors.

If Giles wanted a ring, he'd choose the Sox. There's really no way the Jays could overtake both Boston AND New York given their respective resources. Heck, the Jays might not have enough talent to overcome the loaded Devil Rays. Meanwhile, the Sox are in the catbird's seat atop the Central.

antitwins13
11-29-2005, 01:02 PM
:(: Well, there goes any hope of signing this guy. There is no way K-Dub would pay over market value for Giles, but that seems to be what the, to coin Babyfisk's term, Black Jays are going to do.

SouthSoxFan
11-29-2005, 01:03 PM
...I'd offer Giles three guaranteed years, two mutual option years (meaning both Giles and the Sox have to choose to pick up the option), and chance to play for the defending world champs...
And if I was Giles, I'd tell ya that's nice, but it ain't nearly worth givin' up $22 million guaranteed.

kittle42
11-29-2005, 01:04 PM
The market is nuts this year.

nccwsfan
11-29-2005, 01:08 PM
If Kenny was serious about Giles and resigned to losing Konerko, I'd offer Giles three guaranteed years, two mutual option years (meaning both Giles and the Sox have to choose to pick up the option), and chance to play for the defending world champs, who have the very best starting rotation, 1-6, in the majors.

If Giles wanted a ring, he'd choose the Sox. There's really no way the Jays could overtake both Boston AND New York given their respective resources. Heck, the Jays might not have enough talent to overcome the loaded Devil Rays. Meanwhile, the Sox are in the catbird's seat atop the Central.

Guaranteed $33 million or guaranteed $55 million- which one would you choose? If these reports are true then Giles is a Blue Jay.

PKalltheway
11-29-2005, 01:11 PM
If Kenny was serious about Giles and resigned to losing Konerko, I'd offer Giles three guaranteed years, two mutual option years (meaning both Giles and the Sox have to choose to pick up the option), and chance to play for the defending world champs, who have the very best starting rotation, 1-6, in the majors.

If Giles wanted a ring, he'd choose the Sox. There's really no way the Jays could overtake both Boston AND New York given their respective resources. Heck, the Jays might not have enough talent to overcome the loaded Devil Rays. Meanwhile, the Sox are in the catbird's seat atop the Central.

The Blue Jays most certainly have the talent to beat out Tampa and Baltimore. They were even in the race for the AL East just before the All-Star break when Roy Halladay broke his leg. Halladay was already on top of it and was about to start the All-Star game. If he would have stayed healthy and pitched well in the second half like he's fully capable of doing, the Blue Jays would not have made the playoffs, but they would have come pretty darn close. They did make a mistake in offering Brian Giles that much money for that many years, though. They need to use that money to go after A.J. Burnett (although I don't think he's worth 55 million). You can never have too much pitching. As for their hitting, the Blue Jays could become more of a situational hitting team rather than try to compete with the powerful lineups of New York and Boston.

Ol' No. 2
11-29-2005, 01:17 PM
The market is nuts this year.You mean as opposed to all the previous years when it's been sane?:wink:

Fenway
11-29-2005, 01:18 PM
You mean as opposed to all the previous years when it's been sane?:wink:

cable tv rates should be going up across Canada soon :?:

meanwhile the Yankees are doing NOTHING

MUsoxfan
11-29-2005, 01:21 PM
The Blue Jays have offered free agent Brian Giles a five-year, $55 million contract, according to the Toronto Sun.
$11 million per year through age 39? Maybe it's what the Blue Jays need to do to get him away from the West Coast, but guaranteeing him five years looks like a terrible risk. Nov. 29 - 1:15 pm et
Source: Toronto Sun (http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/MLB/Toronto/2005/11/29/1328885-sun.html)

That is a long time to sign a 35 year old. At that length, I would rather have Konerko, because of their ages when this deal expires.

The Jays are going head-first into Yankee problems. They sign overvalued and old talent to huge deals and they won't be able to unload those contracts when these guys don't pan out.

Tekijawa
11-29-2005, 01:28 PM
$55 Million Canadian right? $11 million a year for Giles? UM wow... you can have him!

MHOUSE
11-29-2005, 01:37 PM
Giles never lived up to his first huge contract with the Pirates, at age 35 now I see no reason he suddenly would be worth that big $$.

Paulwny
11-29-2005, 01:39 PM
cable tv rates should be going up across Canada soon :?:

meanwhile the Yankees are doing NOTHING

Latest folly out of NY, if they can't find a cf
Jeter to cf
ARod back to ss
Trade for a 3rd baseman
With little to offer, finding a 3rd baseman may be as difficult as finding a cf.

Fenway
11-29-2005, 01:43 PM
Latest folly out of NY, if they can't find a cf
Jeter to cf
ARod back to ss
Trade for a 3rd baseman
With little to offer, finding a 3rd baseman may be as difficult as finding a cf.

I wouldn't discount Nomar going to NYY to play CF either'

The Yankees rotation looks very shaky. Johnson last year could only beat one team ( Boston )

but they will still win 90+ games with that lineup

Baby Fisk
11-29-2005, 02:04 PM
cable tv rates should be going up across Canada soon :?:
SONOFA*****! :cuss: Holy crap, the Black Jays are this year's Orioles. Which makes the Mets this year's...um...Mets? :unsure:

meanwhile the Yankees are doing NOTHING
This is most ominous of all...

Fenway
11-29-2005, 02:17 PM
This is most ominous of all...

Joe Torre said in an interview with Reuters yesterday that the Bombers have considered the possibility of moving Derek Jeter or Alex Rodriguez to center field to fill the hole vacated by Bernie Williams.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/story/369983p-314782c.html

OK

According to several industry sources, the Yankees are engaged in serious negotiations with flame-throwing, right-handed setup man Kyle Farnsworth and are very close to inking lefty specialist Mike Myers.
http://www.nypost.com/sports/yankees/yankees.htm

Lip Man 1
11-29-2005, 02:26 PM
Ken Rosenthal has just released a column where Brian Cashman denies any plans to move either Jeter or Rodriguez to center field.

Lip

Fenway
11-29-2005, 02:30 PM
Ken Rosenthal has just released a column where Brian Cashman denies any plans to move either Jeter or Rodriguez to center field.

Lip

Oh good Cashman saying Torre is wrong, that will fire up the tabloids

unless Joe was talking to George

I know this about the Yankees. George has to be livid he has lost the back pages to the Mets. Something will happen and soon

A-Rod for Manny? That would do it :D:

SoxSpeed22
11-29-2005, 02:42 PM
This is most ominous of all...Really, all they have to do is sign Jaque Jones and stick him in the bottom of the order. What worries me the most about the Yankees is if they attempt to pursue one of our starters.
:jon?
For the record, the Blue Jays are the ones making this a crazy FA market. Them, and maybe the Mets, no one else.
And on a side note, can we have a color for 'God forbid' statements? Pipedreams are deep pink, so can we have something like that? Or is teal used in these situations?

A. Cavatica
11-29-2005, 07:06 PM
I like Giles as a player, but I haven't seen a single credible story saying the Sox have even the tiniest bit of interest.

He's not as good a defensive outfielder as our current three, & we've already got our big lefthanded bat. Also, didn't he refuse to waive a no-trade a few years ago? If KW had no interest in Delgado for the same reason, he'd have no interest in Giles.

Banix12
11-29-2005, 10:00 PM
Before this offseason I thought if Toronto spent wisely that they could potentially overtake the division because i do like the young pitching and it should make some progress. However if this is true and with the Ryan deal I am starting to change my mind about them

MHOUSE
11-29-2005, 11:47 PM
The Yanks are offering the 'Farns' something like 3 years $15 for a guy who hasn't been able to hold down a set-up or closer role for more than a couple months at a time. By proving that pitching wins championships, I guess you could say the Sox started this whole overpayment debacle. Of course, we signed all our pitching to reasonably priced for well-worked time periods (with extra-year options, etc.). Go KW!

MUsoxfan
11-29-2005, 11:56 PM
The Yanks are offering the 'Farns' something like 3 years $15 for a guy who hasn't been able to hold down a set-up or closer role for more than a couple months at a time. By proving that pitching wins championships, I guess you could say the Sox started this whole overpayment debacle. Of course, we signed all our pitching to reasonably priced for well-worked time periods (with extra-year options, etc.). Go KW!

How in the world did the Sox overpay for any pitching?! Garcia is cheaper than Kris Benson! ALL of our pitching is reasonably priced

Corlose 15
11-30-2005, 12:08 AM
How in the world did the Sox overpay for any pitching?! Garcia is cheaper than Kris Benson! ALL of our pitching is reasonably priced

Thats what he said. His point was that the Sox winning with pitcher is what caused the overspending.

MUsoxfan
11-30-2005, 12:24 AM
Thats what he said. His point was that the Sox winning with pitcher is what caused the overspending.

Sorry...I stopped reading after the "overpaying" sentence:redface:

TDog
11-30-2005, 10:14 AM
At least this shows MLB owners aren't colluding. I don't care how much money teams offer Giles because winning is not about signing high-priced free agents in the off-season, as the Yankees and Mets are so good at doing. The Yankees' most consistent pitcher last year wasn't one of their big-money stars.

The message the White Sox sent last year wasn't "go out and spend big money on pitchers" -- essentially what the Yankees did in picking up guys based on past success. For of the regular-season rotation guys among the two teams that did make it to the 2006 World Series last year were former Yankees. The character of the White Sox was as much about character as talent.

Evaluating what players will do over six months (plus a month of do-or-die short series) is the trick.

Flight #24
11-30-2005, 10:20 AM
Thats what he said. His point was that the Sox winning with pitcher is what caused the overspending.

Which shows the brilliance of KW. Go get the pitchers signed up BEFORE the market realizes how important it is. Now he's got the best roration in the bigs and they're all underpaid relative to market. Contreras at $6M, Buehrle at $7.75 or Loaiza at $7? Garcia at $9 or Burnett at $10?

Screw Moneyball, Kennyball's the way to go. Now he's adding in some of the power as other teams try to get what he's already got locked in. 3 steps ahead....

soxfanreggie
11-30-2005, 10:20 AM
I'm laughing that the Mets, once again are throwing out millions to try to succeed. One WS appearance in the last how many years with what they've spent...

With Pedro, Delgado, Beltran, Wagner, etc...yeah the names sound nice, but how good a team are they.

As for the Blue Jays, I know they want to increase payroll but giving BJ Ryan the largest contract for a reliever...wow...

I'm hoping that when Jenks becomes a FA, we can sign him to a decent deal loaded with incentives...like a semi full of beer each year...or like...$5 mil a year and 4 cases of beer per save :D:

Fenway
11-30-2005, 10:27 AM
Oh good Cashman saying Torre is wrong, that will fire up the tabloids

unless Joe was talking to George

I know this about the Yankees. George has to be livid he has lost the back pages to the Mets. Something will happen and soon



As predicted the tabloids picked up on it

http://www.nydailynews.com/ips_rich_content/843-BACK_BIG.jpg

Yankees shun center stage
Some debate remains over the context and clarity of Joe Torre's reported remarks concerning a potential move to center field for either Derek Jeter or Alex Rodriguez, but Brian Cashman made it very clear that neither of the Yanks' superstars is going anywhere.
FULL STORY (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/story/370311p-314999c.html)

http://www.nydailynews.com/images/dot1.gifMike Lupica: Bat on shoulders as rest swing away (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/story/370316p-315001c.html)

http://www.nydailynews.com/images/dot1.gifYanks work to land Farnsworth, keep Flash (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/story/370245p-314951c.html)

soltrain21
11-30-2005, 10:33 AM
I'm laughing that the Mets, once again are throwing out millions to try to succeed. One WS appearance in the last how many years with what they've spent...

With Pedro, Delgado, Beltran, Wagner, etc...yeah the names sound nice, but how good a team are they.

As for the Blue Jays, I know they want to increase payroll but giving BJ Ryan the largest contract for a reliever...wow...

I'm hoping that when Jenks becomes a FA, we can sign him to a decent deal loaded with incentives...like a semi full of beer each year...or like...$5 mil a year and 4 cases of beer per save :D:


That isn't very funny. He is a recovering alcoholic.

Hangar18
11-30-2005, 10:40 AM
Now he's got the best roration in the bigs and they're all underpaid relative to market. Contreras at $6M, Buehrle at $7.75 or Loaiza at $7? Garcia at $9 or Burnett at $10?

Screw Moneyball, Kennyball's the way to go. Now he's adding in some of the power as other teams try to get what he's already got locked in. 3 steps ahead....

YES, but will they all be due raises after this season? YOU BET. MB jumps to like $9 Million next year I believe ........ I cant see the SOX wanting to pay him that next year. We'll see .............

Flight #24
11-30-2005, 10:47 AM
YES, but will they all be due raises after this season? YOU BET. MB jumps to like $9 Million next year I believe ........ I cant see the SOX wanting to pay him that next year. We'll see .............
(sigh)And exactly why outside of the tinfoil do you think that? Because they've done it so many times in the past? Like when exactly?

Carlos Lee? Nope - that deal netted them Podsednik, plus they reused that money, so it wasn't about saving $$$

Maggs? Nope, he was an FA and anyway he wouldn't let them look at the knee.

But I'm sure they won't pay Buehrle $9M despite paying Garcia that.......

Raises to starting pitchers Buehrle/Garcia will total about $2.25M. They're not going to get rid of either one for that money. Garland will probably have a similar $1-2M raise on a long-term deal, and that won't mean dumping him either. Especially since they'll get rid of El Duque's $5M after '06 and IIRC Hermanson's $3.

soxfanreggie
11-30-2005, 11:48 AM
Buehrle is so worth is. You're talking about 15 wins or more a season...most likely around 17 or 18 or more per season. He's consistent and gets the job done. Heck, it's not like we're paying him $1-2 mil per win like some starters get.

mjmcend
12-01-2005, 01:41 AM
Or maybe they won't.