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Randar68
11-28-2005, 03:58 PM
Please, only respond to correct me or comment if you're going to at least spend some time to think about this...

This is what I have as of today, contract dollars in millions with assumptions or comments following:

Starters
Contreras - 4.000 - Yankees paid HALF of his deal (7M and 8M in overall salary in 05 and 06
Buehrle - 7.750
Garcia - 9.000
Garland - ????Arb eligible (made 3.14 in 2005)
McCarthy - 0.330

Bullpen
Jenks - 0.330
Hermanson - 3.000
Politte - 1.200
Vizcaino - 1.300 - 2006 salary unknown, estimated about the same, 1.3 million.
Marte - 2.250
Cotts - 0.335
El Duque - 5.000 - Based on incentives escalating his contract

IF/DH
Thome - 7.000 - 22 of 43 million paid by Philly leaving us with 3yrs and $21M plus buyout/option for 2009 (not accounted for here)
Crede - ???? - Arb eligible (made 400k in 2005)
Uribe - 3.150
Iguchi - 2.400
Konerko - ????
AJ - ???? - Arb eligible (made 2.5M including bonuses in 2005)

OF
Pods - 1.975
Anderson - 0.330
Dye - 5.000

Bench
Widger - 0.650
Ozuna - 0.500

TOTALS - 55.500 million
Carl - Does not include one-time charge of 500k buyout
Frank - Does not include one-time charge of 3.5M buyout



Unaccounted for bench players:
Frank
Harris
Timo
Borchard
Gload
other bench options????


So, fill in your blanks for Konerko, AJ, Garland and Crede and you have an approximate payroll. Bench players unknown at this time. Other bench players I'm unsure of who is reasonable to expect back or to make the team, but salaries should be minimal. I'm about $200k high on El Duque based on incentives, and I'm not 100% on the amount of money NYY sent with Jose Contreras.

My estimated #'s on Konerko, Garland, AJ and Crede respectively are: 13M, 6M, 4M, and 1.25M, making the overall payroll = $79.75 million.

Still some flexibility remaining, IMO.

Flight #24
11-28-2005, 04:10 PM
I'm pretty sure that the Contreras-Yankee deal was structured so that his salary from the Sox was $6M annually with the Yanks making up the difference. So that'll put you at $57.5M. You're probably not far off on the arb awards or Paulie.

The Trib also had KW saying that with anticipated arb awards, the payroll was at the 2005 level. No word on whether or not that's inclusive of the buyouts for Frank & Carl or is based on higher arb awards estiamtes, but it's indicative of how the team is calculating the dollars. That would mean including a potential Konerko $13M/yr resigning, the '06 total will be somewhere around $84-87M depending on how the Paulie contract is structured in the early years. Not a lot of wiggle room left there, so I don't know that you'll see any other major moves, more like a bench player of middle relief arm, if anything.

IMO, bench will be Harris, Ozuna, Gload, Borchard, Widger and you'll lose one of Vizcaino/Duque.

ma-gaga
11-28-2005, 06:06 PM
Please, only respond to correct me or comment if you're going to at least spend some time to think about this...
...
making the overall payroll = $79.75 million.

Well, I've updated my little salary tracker. I gave AJ another million. With the way FA salaries are starting to explode, I get the feeling that $4MM was too low. I think Garland's deal is maybe a million too high, but between the two deals, I should be close.

I included the buyouts, because IMO, that is money that is being spent on this years roster. If you don't like it, subtract $4MM from my numbers. The biggest question I have is Konerko. If he signs I think he locks up the roster as is. If he doesn't sign he gives KW some flexibility, but I'm just not certain what that will get him.

I don't know where I got Vizcaino's salary from. and I gave KW a "cagy veteran" to replace Blum or Timo. Someone like that. Everyteam needs one.
:cool: Enjoy. And I'll take critique's as well.


http://www.tc.umn.edu/~dunca016/WSI%202006%20WSox%20Payroll.jpg

Randar68
11-28-2005, 06:30 PM
Well, I've updated my little salary tracker. I gave AJ another million. With the way FA salaries are starting to explode, I get the feeling that $4MM was too low. I think Garland's deal is maybe a million too high, but between the two deals, I should be close.

I included the buyouts, because IMO, that is money that is being spent on this years roster. If you don't like it, subtract $4MM from my numbers. The biggest question I have is Konerko. If he signs I think he locks up the roster as is. If he doesn't sign he gives KW some flexibility, but I'm just not certain what that will get him.

I don't know where I got Vizcaino's salary from. and I gave KW a "cagy veteran" to replace Blum or Timo. Someone like that. Everyteam needs one.
:cool: Enjoy. And I'll take critique's as well.


http://www.tc.umn.edu/~dunca016/WSI%202006%20WSox%20Payroll.jpg

Frank and Carl's buyouts were paid in 2005, not sure why you keep adding those to the 2006 payroll?

Pods makes 1.975 million. Ozuna was resigned at said 500k. Vizcaino is not arb eligible, will likely make about the same salary, as performance didn't really dictate a raise. (made 1.3M IIRC)

AJ made 2.25 million in 2005. He was way below his career numbers in just about everything but HR's, and numbers are where arbitration cases are determined. That said, I'd be surprised if the Sox didn't sign him to a 2-yr 8 million type of extension or something similar. Doubt it actually goes to arb.

I also think we're overestimating Garland a bit, but it's probably safe to be conservative. Buehrle is a pretty comparable case and his deal started at 6 million despite having a longer and better record of success than JG.

Is your Iguchi salary assuming he will earn the 200k in bonuses for 550+ PA's in 2006? Base salary is $2.4M in 2006.

You need to add the escalator based on IP'd to El Duque's salary too, will prolly cancel-out over-estimate on Vizcaino.

ma-gaga
11-28-2005, 07:07 PM
Frank and Carl's buyouts were paid in 2005, not sure why you keep adding those to the 2006 payroll?
...
AJ made 2.25 million in 2005. He was way below his career numbers in just about everything but HR's, and numbers are where arbitration cases are determined. That said, I'd be surprised if the Sox didn't sign him to a 2-yr 8 million type of extension or something similar. Doubt it actually goes to arb.


I don't know what to do with the buyouts. However, it doesn't seem right to apply the dollars to the 2005 payroll either. They are contract buyouts for the 2006 season, so I'm applying them to 2006's payroll. Regardless, it's easy to subtract them at this point. Be happy I don't know what Frank Thomas's deferred dollars are. I'd apply them to this years payroll as well.

I understand that AJ's stats were down this year, but I get a feeling his value is going to be inflated by:

His post-season performance. He singlehandedly beat the Angels by nerve and poise. He got into their heads, that they couldn't figure out what to do.
The FA signings across the league are blowing me away. I think the new satellite radio contract and the new national television deal is putting $5-$10MM more into each teams budget, and the player's agents are already keyed into that and are getting more bang for their buck. Even for arbitration eligible players.
And most importantly. I think this is AJ's sixth year in the league, and he took a pretty major paycut last year, so he's DUE for a solid raise. If they sign AJ to a long term deal, I expect it to be a minimum of 3 years long and I'd expect it to average $7MM a year. Yeah, that's right, $7MM a year for Pierzynski. Structured at $5/$7/$9. It's a cheap deal compared to what Varitek got, and a much better deal for a younger and better player.
I think AJ holds out for a 3 year deal. He's finally got some leverage in his career. Otherwise he plays a one-year deal and cashes out next year with the Yankees/Dodgers/Cubs as an unrestricted FA next year. That's a tough choice for KW to make. If he can get AJ to sign for less than $5MM annually, more power to him. I just don't think it happens.

Crede might get more in arbitration as well, based on his post-season. I've heard Twins fans dreaming for a third baseman like Crede based on those 12 games. gah.

The rest are pretty tight. I mean, 1.900 vs 1.975 for Pods is close enough for this exercise...

:gulp:

Randar68
11-29-2005, 12:23 AM
I don't know what to do with the buyouts. However, it doesn't seem right to apply the dollars to the 2005 payroll either.

Well, the Sox also made 20 million in playoff revenue in all likelihood. Where the money comes from is relevant, but that money is absolutely IRRELEVANT when it comes to the 2006 payroll. Done and gone.

Flight #24
11-29-2005, 10:21 AM
Couple of points:

- KW (IIRC) said on the concall over the weekend that with antiocipated arb awards, they were at the 2005 payroll level already, which would imply that they're either applying the buyouts to their 2006 payroll estimates or are anticipating higher arb awards(seems unlikely). All that matters is how the Sox see it, so seems more likely that they're factoring the buyouts into 2006. It matters not how appropriate/inappropriate that is.

- Ben Molina & Ramon Hernandez supposedly got equivalent 3-yr/$18M offers from the Mets. $6M/yr for them IMO equates to roughly $5M for Playoff hero AJ.

- Including salary inflation, $6-7M is IMO the right starting point for Garland. He's proven less than Buehrle had when he got his deal, but it's also 2 years later and salaries have inflated.

Either way, it's looking like if Paulie comes back, the roster is pretty much set. If he doesn't, there's about $13M to play with, which could get you Giles+someone else. Supposedly Angels & O's are willing to go to 5 years and there's at least one report that the Sox are as well if Paulie's getting those offers from others. IMO it may come down to $12M from the Sox on a 5-yr deal v. $13M from someone else. At those levels, I'd hope he'd stay and make up more than the difference in endorsements.

Ol' No. 2
11-29-2005, 10:33 AM
Frank and Carl's buyouts were paid in 2005, not sure why you keep adding those to the 2006 payroll?

Pods makes 1.975 million. Ozuna was resigned at said 500k. Vizcaino is not arb eligible, will likely make about the same salary, as performance didn't really dictate a raise. (made 1.3M IIRC)

AJ made 2.25 million in 2005. He was way below his career numbers in just about everything but HR's, and numbers are where arbitration cases are determined. That said, I'd be surprised if the Sox didn't sign him to a 2-yr 8 million type of extension or something similar. Doubt it actually goes to arb.

I also think we're overestimating Garland a bit, but it's probably safe to be conservative. Buehrle is a pretty comparable case and his deal started at 6 million despite having a longer and better record of success than JG.

Is your Iguchi salary assuming he will earn the 200k in bonuses for 550+ PA's in 2006? Base salary is $2.4M in 2006.

You need to add the escalator based on IP'd to El Duque's salary too, will prolly cancel-out over-estimate on Vizcaino.Vizcaino IS arbitration eligible (4+ yrs service time), but in any case, he'll probably make about the same as last year. Any difference is small potatoes.

Whether to count the buyouts for 2005 or 2006 is beside the point. It's whether the ownership chooses to count them against next year's budget that matters. My guess is that they will not count it against next year's budget, but they can choose to count it however they like.

Lastly, I would expect that if they re-sign Konerko, his contract will be at least somewhat back-loaded. So even if it averages $13M a year, he'll probably get only $11M in 2006.

It's Time
11-29-2005, 10:42 AM
I am going to play Hangar for a minute.

"Don't be FOOLED by the obvious SHELL game Jerry is playing. Our payroll is really being LOWERED and JR is going on the CHEAP again. The 84M dollar figure you are hearing about is a MIRAGE because we should be at about 100M because of the increased attendance from last year.

Now he is LOWBALLING Konerko, when this SHOULD have been resolved LAST year. Instead, the White Sox GAMBLED and will most likely lose".:)

Lip Man 1
11-29-2005, 01:56 PM
Phil Rogers discussed the Sox payroll yesterday on Chicago Tribune Live! I'll give you the abridged version going over the highlights.

*Rogers says the payroll is 74 million as of 11/28.

*Rogers thinks the Sox will go to 85 million when all is said and done.

*Rogers says with the Phillies paying a large part of Thome's deal, and the Yankees paying a good amount of Contreras deal, the Sox have money for Konerko.

*Rogers says that Juan Pierre is worth about five million. the Sox can afford to add him and deal some of their surplus outfield top prospects to Florida in order to get him. He stated this is exactly what Florida wants, cheap kids with some potential. Rogers also added the glut of outfielders in the Sox system makes this very logical.

*Finally Rogers said that Sox are looking hard at Bill Mueller as a back up / injury replacement for Joe Crede.

If the Sox were to add Thome, Pierre and Mueller and retain Konerko I don't see how anyone could complain or be dissatisfied about the off season.

We'll see.

Lip

Flight #24
11-29-2005, 02:05 PM
Per the Trib today, payroll's currently at $57M. Rogers is probably using the KW comment that with anticipated arb awards it's at $75M.

Randar68
11-30-2005, 02:56 PM
- KW (IIRC) said on the concall over the weekend that with antiocipated arb awards, they were at the 2005 payroll level already, which would imply that they're either applying the buyouts to their 2006 payroll estimates or are anticipating higher arb awards(seems unlikely). All that matters is how the Sox see it, so seems more likely that they're factoring the buyouts into 2006. It matters not how appropriate/inappropriate that is.

That is not how businesses operate, and last I checked, the White Sox were a business.

I'm assuming they included arbitration estimates, which should put them about right with last season's payroll. Adding Konerko back to that estimates them in the 85-87 million range most projected the payroll to reach anyway.

Flight #24
11-30-2005, 03:05 PM
That is not how businesses operate, and last I checked, the White Sox were a business.

I'm assuming they included arbitration estimates, which should put them about right with last season's payroll. Adding Konerko back to that estimates them in the 85-87 million range most projected the payroll to reach anyway.

You think the combined arb awards for Garland, Crede, AJ will total $18M? That's the difference between the under-contract $$ of $57 (per the Trib) and the payroll of $75. That's something like Garland ($8), AJ($6), Crede($3), all of which are way high IMO. A more likely scenario is Garland ($6)-AJ($5)-Crede($2), leaving $4M difference to get to the $75. Which coincidentally is Frank's $3.5 and Everett's $.5.

I think it's a lot more likely that the Sox are including the buyouts in 2006 budget than they are estiamted Joe Crede to make $3M in arbitration or AJ Pierzynski to get an arb award greater than FA offers to Bengie Molina and Ramon Hernandez.

Soxfan35
11-30-2005, 03:33 PM
If the Sox were to add Thome, Pierre and Mueller and retain Konerko I don't see how anyone could complain or be dissatisfied about the off season.

Lip

If thats how the offseason finishes out, I think it would be one of the best offseasons in the teams history. Getting those 3 and signing paulie would be much better than what the mets are doing.

Randar68
11-30-2005, 04:13 PM
You think the combined arb awards for Garland, Crede, AJ will total $18M? That's the difference between the under-contract $$ of $57 (per the Trib) and the payroll of $75. That's something like Garland ($8), AJ($6), Crede($3), all of which are way high IMO. A more likely scenario is Garland ($6)-AJ($5)-Crede($2), leaving $4M difference to get to the $75. Which coincidentally is Frank's $3.5 and Everett's $.5.

I think it's a lot more likely that the Sox are including the buyouts in 2006 budget than they are estiamted Joe Crede to make $3M in arbitration or AJ Pierzynski to get an arb award greater than FA offers to Bengie Molina and Ramon Hernandez.

The Sox pay those buyouts in fiscal year 2005. They are not part of fiscal year 2006 budgeting, especially not when you turned an unexpected 20 million in additional revenue/profit in the 2005 year.

We're also not privy to the negotiations with AJ, Crede OR Garland, and it's unlikely any of those guys actually GO to arbitration versus signing contracts, so "arbitration awards" are worthless when talking about things at this point.

What is KW referring to with respect to Thome's deal? How is he counting it against 2006 payroll versus future year payrolls? Ditto for Contreras' deal. Unless he is specific, we have no idea how is counting things up, but I can assure people that contract buyouts that are PAID in October/November of 2005 are not planned against 2006 budgets. It's accoutned for in the 2005 budget. I really don't see how one can logically argue the point you are attempting to.

gf2020
11-30-2005, 04:26 PM
I can assure people that contract buyouts that are PAID in October/November of 2005 are not planned against 2006 budgets. It's accoutned for in the 2005 budget.

Are you basing your assurance on the belief that's how normal corporations do buisness, so logically that's how the white sox and other mlb teams handle it or did you read or hear somewhere that was the case? Not asking sarcastically. It's just seems like most in the media are treating the 4 million in buyouts as if it were part of the 2006 budget. How are you certain this is not the case?

Flight #24
11-30-2005, 04:31 PM
The Sox pay those buyouts in fiscal year 2005. They are not part of fiscal year 2006 budgeting, especially not when you turned an unexpected 20 million in additional revenue/profit in the 2005 year.

We're also not privy to the negotiations with AJ, Crede OR Garland, and it's unlikely any of those guys actually GO to arbitration versus signing contracts, so "arbitration awards" are worthless when talking about things at this point.

What is KW referring to with respect to Thome's deal? How is he counting it against 2006 payroll versus future year payrolls? Ditto for Contreras' deal. Unless he is specific, we have no idea how is counting things up, but I can assure people that contract buyouts that are PAID in October/November of 2005 are not planned against 2006 budgets. It's accoutned for in the 2005 budget. I really don't see how one can logically argue the point you are attempting to.

I would draw the analogy to a signing bonus. Assuming that Paulie signs his contract in the next week or so, and gets his signing bonus prior to year-end, by your logic that would also be allocated to 2005. But that goes against everything I've ever read about contract signings.

As someone posted a while back in another thread on this same point - if you're buying out a 2006 contract, there's logic behind allocating that to 2006 payroll regardless of when it's actually paid. Cash flow can be very different from income/earnings. From a cash flow perspective, you'd be correct. But that isn't always how companies budget things from an income perspective.

Randar68
11-30-2005, 04:32 PM
Are you basing your assurance on the belief that's how normal corporations do buisness, so logically that's how the white sox and other mlb teams handle it

Yes

or did you read or hear somewhere that was the case? Not asking sarcastically. It's just seems like most in the media are treating the 4 million in buyouts as if it were part of the 2006 budget. How are you certain this is not the case?
I haven't seen "most in the media" do any actual work other than recite what KW or others have said.

Randar68
11-30-2005, 04:35 PM
I would draw the analogy to a signing bonus. Assuming that Paulie signs his contract in the next week or so, and gets his signing bonus prior to year-end, by your logic that would also be allocated to 2005. But that goes against everything I've ever read about contract signings.

As someone posted a while back in another thread on this same point - if you're buying out a 2006 contract, there's logic behind allocating that to 2006 payroll regardless of when it's actually paid. Cash flow can be very different from income/earnings. From a cash flow perspective, you'd be correct. But that isn't always how companies budget things from an income perspective.

Signing bonuses have payout dates or schedules associated with them that don't necessarily include anything.

One-time charges such as bonuses, buyouts, etc are treated differently, in most cases, but buyouts in a given year are planned for in advance, especially on players like Frank or Carl who you knew LONG in advance that were going to be exercised.

KW et al knew in January that Carl and Frank would be bought out. They'd have been negligent to not include that in their 2005 payroll planning.

Flight #24
11-30-2005, 04:39 PM
Signing bonuses have payout dates or schedules associated with them that don't necessarily include anything.

One-time charges such as bonuses, buyouts, etc are treated differently, in most cases, but buyouts in a given year are planned for in advance, especially on players like Frank or Carl who you knew LONG in advance that were going to be exercised.

KW et al knew in January that Carl and Frank would be bought out. They'd have been negligent to not include that in their 2005 payroll planning.

Or he wouldn't have been negligent if he allocated it to his 2006 payroll planning, but made sure he had the cash on hand to execute the buyout in 2005. It happens all the time in companies.

Again - by your logic, if there was a deferred signing bonus for a player, that would be a 1-time event planned for and applied to the salary in the year it's paid. Which is not the way I've ever seen it characterized. I've always seen it discussed in terms of the year in which is was earned, not the year in which it was paid. Since the buyout is in lieu of a contract for 2006, it could be applied there.

Regardless, Sox payroll per the mouth of KW was at 2005's level after the Thome trade including their estimated arb awards. Thus whether or not they include the buyout in that number is immaterial. We can safely say that payroll was $75M and assuming evenly spread payments, Paulie just raised it to $87M. The rest is just semantics.

ma-gaga
11-30-2005, 04:49 PM
Thus whether or not they include the buyout in that number is immaterial. We can safely say that payroll was $75M and assuming evenly spread payments, Paulie just raised it to $87M. The rest is just semantics.

My salary roster pic is updated. $87.18 including buyouts. Not bad. Not bad at all...

:gulp:

Ol' No. 2
11-30-2005, 04:51 PM
Or he wouldn't have been negligent if he allocated it to his 2006 payroll planning, but made sure he had the cash on hand to execute the buyout in 2005. It happens all the time in companies.

Again - by your logic, if there was a deferred signing bonus for a player, that would be a 1-time event planned for and applied to the salary in the year it's paid. Which is not the way I've ever seen it characterized. I've always seen it discussed in terms of the year in which is was earned, not the year in which it was paid. Since the buyout is in lieu of a contract for 2006, it could be applied there.

Regardless, Sox payroll per the mouth of KW was at 2005's level after the Thome trade including their estimated arb awards. Thus whether or not they include the buyout in that number is immaterial. We can safely say that payroll was $75M and assuming evenly spread payments, Paulie just raised it to $87M. The rest is just semantics.This argument is over a meaningless technicality. It makes absolutely no difference if they allocate it to the 2006 budget if the budget is set with that amount accounted for. And since it's a known expense, it has to be already accounted for.

voodoochile
12-14-2005, 12:08 PM
http://www.tc.umn.edu/%7Edunca016/WSI%202006%20WSox%20Payroll.jpg
Okay so by my estimates the following changes have occured:

Cagy Veteran is replaced by Mackowiak: Salary?
Marte = -2.25M
El Duque = -4.5M
Viz = -1.5M
Vazquez - 2.5M = +9M

So right now based on your estimates, the salary level is at $90M + Mackowiak's salary.

That still includes the buyouts which might drop it by $4M.

If they package Garland and Uribe they have roughly $9M to play with to stay cash neutral.
If they don't count the buyouts, they have $13M
If they up the payroll to $95M they have almost $18M to play with after trading Garland and Uribe not counting the buyouts.

That allows for a pretty hefty salary pickup and would easily allow them to afford Tejada or even take a chance on Griffey (keeping Uribe).

Flight #24
12-14-2005, 12:22 PM
By my count, including cash offsetting contracts on guys we traded for:

Rotation: Buehrle ($7.75)-Garcia ($9)-Contreras ($6)-Vazquez ($6)-Garland (arb award - $8?)-->TOTAL=$36.75M

Bullpen: Jenks (.330) - Cotts (.330) - Politte (1.2) - Hermanson (3) - McCarthy (.330) - ????(1)-->TOTAL=$6.19M

Infield: Crede (arb award - $2?)-Uribe ($3.15) - Iguchi ($2.4) - Konerko ($12) - Pierzynski (arb award - $6?)-->TOTAL = $25.55M

Outfield: Podsednik (1.9) - Anderson (.330) - Dye (5) --> TOTAL = $7.23M

DH: Thome ($8M)

So prior to paying for the bench, payroll is at $83.72M.

Bench is Widger (.660) - Ozuna (.5) - Mackowiak ($2.5 last year, assume no arb increase) - Borchard/Owens (.330) - Harris/equivalent (.330)-->TOTAL = $4.32.

TOTAL PAYROLL = $88.04M.

Tejada makes $10M in '06, but his salary rises so it would average $12M over the 4 years.
Swap out Garland+Uribe for Tejada+$1M reliever (either via trade or FA signing), and you have a net wash salary-wise for '06.

Rounding_Third
12-14-2005, 12:30 PM
A couple of weeks ago on Murphy's show, I heard Asst GM, Hahn say that postseason revenue allowed for additional $12m for 2006 payroll. $90m sounds like upper limit.

voodoochile
12-14-2005, 12:33 PM
A couple of weeks ago on Murphy's show, I heard Asst GM, Hahn say that postseason revenue allowed for additional $12m for 2006 payroll. $90m sounds like upper limit.

That's prior to them selling an extra 10K+ season ticket packages and probably ALL of the skyboxes...

Right now this team has money raining down on it.

Rounding_Third
12-14-2005, 12:41 PM
That's prior to them selling an extra 10K+ season ticket packages and probably ALL of the skyboxes...

Right now this team has money raining down on it.

Increased ticket sales info was being reported about the same time. When Hahn said that, they probably had a good idea where sales were heading.

voodoochile
12-14-2005, 12:51 PM
Increased ticket sales info was being reported about the same time. When Hahn said that, they probably had a good idea where sales were heading.

Your quote said they had $12M extra to play with from the playoff money.

It said nothing about expected increases to regular season money.

That's before factoring in increased revenue from merchandise sales. Heck, this board alone has probably spent a few million...:tongue:

Rounding_Third
12-14-2005, 01:02 PM
Your quote said they had $12M extra to play with from the playoff money.

It said nothing about expected increases to regular season money.

That's before factoring in increased revenue from merchandise sales. Heck, this board alone has probably spent a few million...:tongue:

Hahn made it pretty clear that upper $80m was where they be on Opening Day. I'm sure all that additional revenue was already being tracked. Sure, there's more money today and more each day but I'd bet they had a pretty good handle on all of their revenue projections when he said it. Judging by the Iguchi deal, they'd probably stretch that figure a little if it was a deal they couldn't refuse.

Pulaski
12-14-2005, 01:10 PM
Hahn made it pretty clear that upper $80m was where they be on Opening Day. I'm sure all that additional revenue was already being tracked. Sure, there's more money today and more each day but I'd bet they had a pretty good handle on all of their revenue projections when he said it. Judging by the Iguchi deal, they'd probably stretch that figure a little if it was a deal they couldn't refuse.

That is the way I understood it as well.

Fenway
12-14-2005, 01:34 PM
I'm no bean counter but with season ticket sales going through the roof it is obvious that JR is letting most of that money go back into the team.

ma-gaga
12-14-2005, 01:46 PM
Okay so by my estimates the following changes have occured:
...
So right now based on your estimates, the salary level is at $90M + Mackowiak's salary.
...
That still includes the buyouts which might drop it by $4M.

*edit* tweaked it after looking at Vazquez's salary. You are dead on.

Check the picture again, it should have automatically updated itself. :cool:

Around $90MM, including buyouts, with an active payroll of $86MM. Kenny still has some money left to play with...

Damn.

Flight #24
12-14-2005, 01:50 PM
I'm no bean counter but with season ticket sales going through the roof it is obvious that JR is letting most of that money go back into the team.

In fact, there's some signs that he's trying to fuel the fire by letting KW make some moves and further bump the already rabid ST sales.

If they get Tejada, could we see a close to sold out season by opening day?

getonbckthr
12-14-2005, 01:54 PM
I'm no bean counter but with season ticket sales going through the roof it is obvious that JR is letting most of that money go back into the team.
They always said if we show up they will spend our money. Apparently all the season ticket sales are being spent by JR.

ChiSoxLifer
12-14-2005, 01:59 PM
They always said if we show up they will spend our money. Apparently all the season ticket sales are being spent by JR.

I read where the White Sox made as much as $30 mil from postseason revenues. It's nice to see a higher payroll to retain and acquire players.

batmanZoSo
12-14-2005, 02:29 PM
I read where the White Sox made as much as $30 mil from postseason revenues. It's nice to see a higher payroll to retain and acquire players.

Players are good. :D:

Flight #24
12-19-2005, 02:14 PM
Well, I've updated my little salary tracker. I gave AJ another million. With the way FA salaries are starting to explode, I get the feeling that $4MM was too low. I think Garland's deal is maybe a million too high, but between the two deals, I should be close.

I included the buyouts, because IMO, that is money that is being spent on this years roster. If you don't like it, subtract $4MM from my numbers. The biggest question I have is Konerko. If he signs I think he locks up the roster as is. If he doesn't sign he gives KW some flexibility, but I'm just not certain what that will get him.

I don't know where I got Vizcaino's salary from. and I gave KW a "cagy veteran" to replace Blum or Timo. Someone like that. Everyteam needs one.
:cool: Enjoy. And I'll take critique's as well.


http://www.tc.umn.edu/~dunca016/WSI%202006%20WSox%20Payroll.jpg
Looks like you were spot on with AJ. Payroll stands at $89.59 after his resigning, but we just got some nice cost certainty for 2 more years.

nodiggity59
12-19-2005, 02:17 PM
AJ will make $4mil this season, $5.5 each in 07-08.

Flight #24
12-19-2005, 02:22 PM
AJ will make $4mil this season, $5.5 each in 07-08.

DOH! :redface:

Of course, an average of $5M doesn't mean a year 1 salary of $5M. Salary currently at $88M.

Ol' No. 2
12-19-2005, 02:25 PM
Well, I've updated my little salary tracker. I gave AJ another million. With the way FA salaries are starting to explode, I get the feeling that $4MM was too low. I think Garland's deal is maybe a million too high, but between the two deals, I should be close.

I included the buyouts, because IMO, that is money that is being spent on this years roster. If you don't like it, subtract $4MM from my numbers. The biggest question I have is Konerko. If he signs I think he locks up the roster as is. If he doesn't sign he gives KW some flexibility, but I'm just not certain what that will get him.

I don't know where I got Vizcaino's salary from. and I gave KW a "cagy veteran" to replace Blum or Timo. Someone like that. Everyteam needs one.
:cool: Enjoy. And I'll take critique's as well.


http://www.tc.umn.edu/%7Edunca016/WSI%202006%20WSox%20Payroll.jpgWho's this Mackowski guy? Did he take Rowland's spot?:tongue:

Hitmen77
12-28-2005, 01:23 PM
Well, I've updated my little salary tracker. I gave AJ another million. With the way FA salaries are starting to explode, I get the feeling that $4MM was too low. I think Garland's deal is maybe a million too high, but between the two deals, I should be close.

I included the buyouts, because IMO, that is money that is being spent on this years roster. If you don't like it, subtract $4MM from my numbers. The biggest question I have is Konerko. If he signs I think he locks up the roster as is. If he doesn't sign he gives KW some flexibility, but I'm just not certain what that will get him.

I don't know where I got Vizcaino's salary from. and I gave KW a "cagy veteran" to replace Blum or Timo. Someone like that. Everyteam needs one.
:cool: Enjoy. And I'll take critique's as well.


http://www.tc.umn.edu/~dunca016/WSI%202006%20WSox%20Payroll.jpg

Thanks for putting this chart together. It's very easy to read. Could someone please update it to reflect Garland's new contract plus any other changes?

Thanks and Happy New Year!!!!

caulfield12
12-28-2005, 01:32 PM
Thanks for putting this chart together. It's very easy to read. Could someone please update it to reflect Garland's new contract plus any other changes?

Thanks and Happy New Year!!!!

Vazquez is making $9.5 million this season and $8.5 million in 2007. The D-Backs are sending us $1 million this year and $3 million the following season.

Also, the White Sox received $3 million in the middle of 2004 to pay for the remainder of Contreras' contract, but I think it would be more accurate to say we're paying him $7 million or even $8 million in terms of this year's budget.

And Crede's salary should jump to around $2.5 to 3.0 million, so I think we're looking at a payroll in the vicinity of $92/94 million before all is said and done in terms of trading a pitcher.

caulfield12
12-28-2005, 01:43 PM
Mackowiak will be at least $2 million or so, as he made $1.5 million last season...so we're sitting around $93-95 million in my estimation...pending the Crede decision and the Mackowiak one.

Hitmen77
12-28-2005, 05:05 PM
Mackowiak will be at least $2 million or so, as he made $1.5 million last season...so we're sitting around $93-95 million in my estimation...pending the Crede decision and the Mackowiak one.

The total in the chart above is $89.5mil. Someone pointed out that Thomas's and Everett's buyouts shouldn't be counted towards '06 salary, so that brings the chart's 2006 payroll total to 85.5.

We only have to add an extra 1 million to Garland's salary on the chart. That's 86.5. Looks like we could bump up Crede's, Mackowiacs, and Contreras's numbers as you suggested and still not exceed the 90 million mark.

CHIsoxNation
12-28-2005, 05:16 PM
...

We only have to add an extra 1 million to Garland's salary on the chart. That's 86.5. Looks like we could bump up Crede's, Mackowiacs, and Contreras's numbers as you suggested and still not exceed the 90 million mark.

Very impressive. What a great job by Kenny!

ma-gaga
12-28-2005, 05:29 PM
Thanks for putting this chart together. It's very easy to read. Could someone please update it to reflect Garland's new contract plus any other changes?

Thanks and Happy New Year!!!!


It's updated. :cool:

I notice that KW likes making a big splash every two weeks. Keeps the fanbase excited. Thome, Konerko, AJ, Garland, ...

I expect Crede to sign a 3 year deal on January 11th. :cool:

Lip Man 1
12-28-2005, 06:58 PM
Williams is now quoted in a story on the Sox 'official' web site that the payroll will come in around 95 million. (I think I've died and gone to heaven....no more relying on 'can't miss kids,' and has-been's!!) They were also discussing this figure this afternoon on Chicago Tribune Live!

Both sites based this payroll increase on the fact that very large numbers of Sox fans have gone out and snapped up Sox tickets. It could turn out to be a record setting season attendance-wise for the franchise.

Lip

soxfanreggie
12-29-2005, 03:33 AM
A few years back when payrolls were coming up on $100 million, I always wondered what the WS would look like with a close to $100 million payroll...looks like this year we'll get very close to that. Now imagine what we would have with a payroll like the Yankees. Although, we could add A-Rod, Pujols, and Vlad and still not be there. Heck, even with those guys, we could add a few ten million pitchers.

I'm liking what we're doing. Our starting pitching is the most expensive part of our game, but it is our bread and butter. Will be interesting to see what happens with the starting pitching, it's tops on most peoples list of questions I'm sure.

Top priority next offseason, re-signing Burls so we don't have to go through the FA talk like we did for PK, although MB has said he will stay here as long as we want him to. You'd think he'd get a contract better than Garland. Could we see him at say...3 years $33 million?

Hitmen77
12-29-2005, 10:10 AM
Williams is now quoted in a story on the Sox 'official' web site that the payroll will come in around 95 million. (I think I've died and gone to heaven....no more relying on 'can't miss kids,' and has-been's!!) They were also discussing this figure this afternoon on Chicago Tribune Live!

Both sites based this payroll increase on the fact that very large numbers of Sox fans have gone out and snapped up Sox tickets. It could turn out to be a record setting season attendance-wise for the franchise.

Lip

Great! I bet advertising and skybox revenues are dramatically up too.

It makes me wonder what the ticket availability situation will be on January 27 when individual game tickets go on sale.

markopat
12-29-2005, 10:29 AM
Thanks for putting this chart together. It's very easy to read. Could someone please update it to reflect Garland's new contract plus any other changes?

Thanks and Happy New Year!!!!

I totally agree...GREAT Thread and easy to keep up with. This team is shaping up very nicely! I am sitting in IL today and talking with my Father-in-Law about our World Champs and the progress we have made in the off season and he asked me what the Scrubs were doing in the off season...I had a good laugh! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Go Go Sox! :bandance:

Flight #24
12-29-2005, 10:52 AM
Top priority next offseason, re-signing Burls so we don't have to go through the FA talk like we did for PK, although MB has said he will stay here as long as we want him to. You'd think he'd get a contract better than Garland. Could we see him at say...3 years $33 million?

I can almost guarantee that the 2006 offseason will feature "the call" to both Garcia & Buehrle ala Garland/Contreras. And Kenny will continue trying to get a young pitcher who could possibly contribute in 06 as an insurance #5 or as a reliever for Contreras. Or he could go try and get a young replacement for Cotts and plan on shifting neal to the rotation in '08 as the #5.

Which will he do? Depends on what Kenny Williams WANTS to do!

GoSox2K3
01-04-2006, 04:29 PM
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~dunca016/WSI%202006%20WSox%20Payroll.jpg

Looks like this chart was pretty close to on-target with Mackowiak as he'll be making 2.25 mil in 2006.

getonbckthr
01-04-2006, 05:58 PM
Adding Tejada's salary and subtracting Jose and Juan's would keep us under Kenny's 95 million mark right?

Hitmen77
01-18-2006, 11:45 AM
It's updated. :cool:

I notice that KW likes making a big splash every two weeks. Keeps the fanbase excited. Thome, Konerko, AJ, Garland, ...

I expect Crede to sign a 3 year deal on January 11th. :cool:

Hey could you update the chart again now that everyone is signed for 2006?

Thanks! :cheers:

ma-gaga
01-18-2006, 03:53 PM
Hey could you update the chart again now that everyone is signed for 2006?

Thanks! :cheers:

Done. :cool:

I expanded the picture a bit to include 2007-2010.

WSox8404
01-18-2006, 05:16 PM
Please don't make fun of me for asking, but what is serf?

Ol' No. 2
01-18-2006, 05:19 PM
Please don't make fun of me for asking, but what is serf?Players without enough service time to be eligible for arbitration get tendered contracts. They basically have no choice but to accept what the team is willing to pay them or find other jobs. The tendered contracts are generally at or near the league minimum.

WSox8404
01-18-2006, 05:29 PM
Players without enough service time to be eligible for arbitration get tendered contracts. They basically have no choice but to accept what the team is willing to pay them or find other jobs. The tendered contracts are generally at or near the league minimum.

So they have no leverage.....they take what they get and thats it. Does this mean they have no negotiation rights? I would assume so. Now how does this differ from a regular non tendered player. I mean if he doesn't like what the team is giving him, he has to find work elsewhere as well right? If you can explain the difference I would appreciate it.

Ol' No. 2
01-18-2006, 05:38 PM
So they have no leverage.....they take what they get and thats it. Does this mean they have no negotiation rights? I would assume so. Now how does this differ from a regular non tendered player. I mean if he doesn't like what the team is giving him, he has to find work elsewhere as well right? If you can explain the difference I would appreciate it.There are three classes of players.

Eligible for free agency: need 6 years of service time. Can sign with any team after their contract is up.

Eligible for arbitration but not FA: need 3 years of service time (some with 2+ eligible). Team can offer arbitration. If team does not offer arbitration by Dec 20, player can sign with any team.

Not eligible for arbitration: Team can tender contract for any amount not below league minimum.

In the latter two cases, the reserve system binds him to the team that owns his rights. If he doesn't accept arbitration or the tendered contract, he can't play for any other team, so he really has very little choice.