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View Full Version : Ordonez May See Limited RF Duty in 2006


Fredsox
11-27-2005, 07:55 PM
According to the Detroit News (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051127/SPORTS0104/511270382/1129):

"10. Magglio Ordonez will be a part-time outfielder next season. Leyland understands Ordonez has limited range and unlimited ability to help the Tigers in one category: hitting. Ordonez's right-field duty figures to be minimal."

Interesting as to why his range would be limited if his knee injury is fully healed. Hmmm.......Looks like the Tigers got themselves a $75 million DH.

buehrle4cy05
11-27-2005, 07:58 PM
Wow, Kenny's looking smarter and smarter every day.:cool:

PaulDrake
11-27-2005, 08:12 PM
I don't think too many of us here are the least bit surprised.

LongLiveFisk
11-27-2005, 08:15 PM
Wow, Kenny's looking smarter and smarter every day.:cool:

Agreed...as much as I liked Ordonez when he was a White Sox, a WS Championship since his departure went a long way in helping me forget him. :D:

RKMeibalane
11-27-2005, 08:15 PM
It's becoming more and more obvious each day that Williams did the Sox franchise a huge favor by allowing That Other Guy to walk away after the 2004 season. He just might be the most overrated player in all of baseball.

Fredsox
11-27-2005, 08:29 PM
This could also spawn a couple of other questions or threads:

1. Are the Tigers the worst-run franchise (compared to other such stellar entries as the Pirates, the Marlins, the Orioles, anyone else you'd care to put in)? They certainly spend enough money ($69 million for 15th place overall). Are they just proof that you can be rich and stupid at the same time?

2. The role of the agent in sports is clearly to get his/her client the most money possible, and it would be very easy to point a finger at Boras on this (as likeable as he is). Is it fair to ask if he and Ordonez knew that the injury was worse than it was when they negotiated the contract or is this just a case of "buyer beware"?

buehrle4cy05
11-27-2005, 08:39 PM
This could also spawn a couple of other questions or threads:

2. The role of the agent in sports is clearly to get his/her client the most money possible, and it would be very easy to point a finger at Boras on this (as likeable as he is). Is it fair to ask if he and Ordonez knew that the injury was worse than it was when they negotiated the contract or is this just a case of "buyer beware"?

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=62419
That was my first non-postgame tomato thread at WSI.:cool:

spawn
11-27-2005, 08:44 PM
You guys do realize this is just a wish-list and not what is actually going to happen...

Vernam
11-28-2005, 10:46 PM
Ever since the spate of odd ailments that kept Maggs inactive much of the spring, I've suspected he and his primo agent perpetrated a fraud on the Tigers. I doubt that his knee was ready to start the season, so the hernia diagnosis -- originally thought to be a stomach virus (!) -- conveniently bought him time for the knee to recover enough for the guaranteed contract to kick in. Here are the terms, according to all-baseball.com:

Signing bonus: $6.0M
* 2005: $6.0M
* 2006: $15M
* 2007: $12M
* 2008: $15M
* 2009: $18M
* 2010: $15M team option vs. $3.0M buyout ($18M if option guarantee triggered)
* 2011: $15M team option (no buyout)

Tigers can void contract after 2005 if Ordonez spends 25 or more days on the DL with a recurrence of his knee injury. Each option year becomes guaranteed if Ordonez has 135 starts of 540 PAs in the preceding season, or 270 starts or 1,080 PAs in the preceding two seasons.

That's $60M guaranteed for 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2009. :thud:

According to RotoTimes, the odd DNPs piled up throughout the season. Just a few early highlights:



On April 4 (http://tinyurl.com/ajl2h), Maggs lamented: "I can't have beans anymore. No seasoning, no beans. My mother had the same problem."
On April 13 (http://tinyurl.com/d6qj5), Trammell said he wouldn't hesitate to play Maggs all three games at Minnesota, despite the artificial turf.
Later on April 13, Maggs phoned in to say he felt ill and couldn't play. "He felt fine after the game yesterday, but this morning he called and said he was sick," Tigers president Dave Dombrowski said.
On April 25 (http://tinyurl.com/dhrft), a bone scan came back negative for whatever it was testing, according to the Detroit News. "It was a test for something that's not common, but it was negative," manager Alan Trammell said. "As far as that goes, it was good news. But we still don't know exactly what he has." The next day they announced he would have hernia surgery.
On July 1 (http://tinyurl.com/al3y2), Maggs is reactivated from the disabled list.
Total games missed from April 13 through all of May and June: 70.

But that's not all. He also missed games on July 9 ("routine day off" for a guy who just sat nearly three months), August 10 (soreness from playing on Toronto's turf), August 19 ("flu-like symptoms"), September 2 (sore biceps after being hit by a pitch) and finally, September 24 ("soreness related to the sports hernia that sidelined him for three months earlier in the season").

Miraculously, of all the 80 games he missed, only one was attributed to the knee. So I am shocked to learn that his knee is now reportedly turning him into a half-time DH. :rolleyes: Now that the money is guaranteed, that is.


Vernam

SOX ADDICT '73
11-29-2005, 12:03 AM
According to the Detroit News (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051127/SPORTS0104/511270382/1129):

"6. Tiger manager Jim Leyland's coaching staff looks solid. Gene Lamont and Lloyd McClendon are former managers. Chuck Hernandez, the new pitching coach, speaks Spanish as well as English, which should be an edge in working with Fernando Rodney, in particular. Rafael Belliard and Andy Van Slyke should do a nice job coaching infielders and outfielders, respectively. And keep an eye on Don Slaught, the hitting coach, whose methodology -- whether it's successful or has little effect -- will become one of the team's ongoing stories in 2006."

So let me get this straight: Ozzie Guillen, manager of the White Sox, hires as his coaching staff former players with the White Sox; Jim Leyland, manager of the Tigers, hires as his coaching staff former players and coaches with...the Pirates? :tongue:

Yeah yeah, I know. Leyland's bringing in people he has confidence in from his years with Pittsburgh. I just found it funny. Plus, everybody knows it was former Tigers like Alan Trammel and Kirk Gibson who were the problem in Detroit, not their idiotic ways of spending money!

* Interesting point: Chuck Hernandez, and (obviously) Leyland and Lamont also have history with the White Sox.

antitwins13
11-29-2005, 12:10 AM
A healthy Maggs still will give you a .300 hitter 30 HRs and 100RBI. It's tough to put a guy like that on the bench.

beckett21
11-29-2005, 12:20 AM
Ever since the spate of odd ailments that kept Maggs inactive much of the spring, I've suspected he and his primo agent perpetrated a fraud on the Tigers. I doubt that his knee was ready to start the season, so the hernia diagnosis -- originally thought to be a stomach virus (!) -- conveniently bought him time for the knee to recover enough for the guaranteed contract to kick in...

...Miraculously, of all the 80 games he missed, only one was attributed to the knee. So I am shocked to learn that his knee is now reportedly turning him into a half-time DH. :rolleyes: Now that the money is guaranteed, that is.


Vernam


WHAT?!? Boras would never intentionally decieve ownership. Never ever, never, never, never, ever! He just simply looks out for the best interests of his clients. How dare you imply such deception? He is a bastion of honesty and integrity, someone whom we should all look up to and strive to imitate.


Say it ain't so, Vernam. Say it ain't so!


*cue 30+ page argument over Boras pros/cons*

(I couldn't resist) :redneck

SOX ADDICT '73
11-29-2005, 12:25 AM
A healthy Maggs still will give you a .300 hitter 30 HRs and 100RBI. It's tough to put a guy like that on the bench.
Honestly, I don't care if Magg$ puts up those or better numbers (just not against the Sox!) every year for the rest of his career. By not signing this gimp last year, KW was able to put together the pieces of a World Championship team.

So if there are still any people (*ahem* idiots) still bemoaning Magglio's departure, or who forsee any weeping and gnashing of teeth if he plays like an MVP for the next half-decade, keep in mind that if Magg$ had been a member of the White Sox in 2005, there's no way in hell we make the playoffs, let alone win the World Series.

Let's see...five or six (potential) great years of Ordonez vs. erasing eighty-eight years of futility? Not a tough call!

antitwins13
11-29-2005, 12:27 AM
Honestly, I don't care if Magg$ puts up those or better numbers (just not against the Sox!) every year for the rest of his career. By not signing this gimp last year, KW was able to put together the pieces of a World Championship team.

So if there are still any people (*ahem* idiots) still bemoaning Magglio's departure, or who forsee any weeping and gnashing of teeth if he plays like an MVP for the next half-decade, keep in mind that if Magg$ had been a member of the White Sox in 2005, there's no way in hell we make the playoffs, let alone win the World Series.

Let's see...five or six (potential) great years of Ordonez vs. erasing eighty-eight years of futility? Not a tough call!


I agree K-Dub made the right move by not signing Maggs, and 90% of the time K-Dub does make the right moves, I'll I'm saying is that a healthy Maggs is probably better than a healthy Dye at least on offense.

Vernam
11-29-2005, 12:30 AM
*cue 30+ page argument over Boras pros/cons*

(I couldn't resist) :redneck
:D: Just be thankful there's no .5 text-size option!

I do hope you clicked those links to Roto, though. It was comical to see the progression in April . . . I've never had a hernia, but I have had really bad gas from beans and am reasonably confident I could tell the difference. :tongue:

Vernam

beckett21
11-29-2005, 12:36 AM
:D: Just be thankful there's no .5 text-size option!

I do hope you clicked those links to Roto, though. It was comical to see the progression in April . . . I've never had a hernia, but I have had really bad gas from beans and am reasonably confident I could tell the difference. :tongue:

Vernam

Good stuff. Thanks for sharing!

Another good one from the same link:

Apr. 20 A hernia specialist in Montreal could not conclude that Magglio Ordonez (OF) Det (http://excite.rototimes.com/index.php?sport=bsball&type=profile&name=2385) has a hernia, according to the AP. Ordonez will visit another hernia specialist Monday in Philadelphia.

Classic. :cool:

SOX ADDICT '73
11-29-2005, 01:45 AM
I'll I'm saying is that a healthy Maggs is probably better than a healthy Dye at least on offense.
Oh, no doubt. Though I was pleasantly surprised to see Jermaine reach 31 HR last season, I think a healthy (key word) Ordonez hits for a better average and more RBI. It's their roughly $10 million difference in salary, along with the money saved in the CLee deal, that allowed KW to assemble a champion.

Bonus: Though not to the extent Texas did with their idiotic deal for A-Rod, Detroit has handcuffed themselves for years to come with Magglio's ridiculous salary, whether he's healthy or not.

IowaSox1971
11-29-2005, 02:16 AM
If the Tigers had tried to void the Ordonez contract because of the knee injury, I'm sure Boras would have filed grievance after grievance. It would have turned into something like the messy Terrell Owens situation, so that's probably why they just called it a hernia and let Ordonez get away with taking other days off throughout the season.

Hokiesox
11-29-2005, 10:21 AM
Agreed...as much as I liked Ordonez when he was a White Sox, a WS Championship since his departure went a long way in helping me forget him. :D:


Maggli-who?

Malgar 12
11-29-2005, 10:52 AM
Oh, no doubt. Though I was pleasantly surprised to see Jermaine reach 31 HR last season, I think a healthy (key word) Ordonez hits for a better average and more RBI. It's their roughly $10 million difference in salary, along with the money saved in the CLee deal, that allowed KW to assemble a champion.

Bonus: Though not to the extent Texas did with their idiotic deal for A-Rod, Detroit has handcuffed themselves for years to come with Magglio's ridiculous salary, whether he's healthy or not.

not to mention, Dye can stilll play defense. Magglio is apparently a fulltime DH now.

spiffie
11-29-2005, 10:59 AM
WHAT?!? Boras would never intentionally decieve ownership. Never ever, never, never, never, ever! He just simply looks out for the best interests of his clients. How dare you imply such deception? He is a bastion of honesty and integrity, someone whom we should all look up to and strive to imitate.


Say it ain't so, Vernam. Say it ain't so!


*cue 30+ page argument over Boras pros/cons*

(I couldn't resist) :redneck

That part where Boras held the children of all the Tiger execs hostage and forced them to give Maggs an exorbitant contract despite massive medical concerns, and then he threatened to eat Dave Dombrowski's soul if they tried to examine the knee before signing him...truly awful behavior.

Jenks4Pres
11-29-2005, 11:02 AM
Looks like Maggs should consider going back on roids!!!!!!!!!

Steelrod
11-29-2005, 12:08 PM
Magglio who?

gobears1987
11-29-2005, 12:44 PM
I agree K-Dub made the right move by not signing Maggs, and 90% of the time K-Dub does make the right moves, I'll I'm saying is that a healthy Maggs is probably better than a healthy Dye at least on offense.Yes and he costs more than 3 times as much as Dye did. Dye hit an equal number of HRs as Maggs does during a good year. And he's a gold glove winner. Give me Dye anyday.

slavko
11-29-2005, 03:44 PM
If the Tigers had tried to void the Ordonez contract because of the knee injury, I'm sure Boras would have filed grievance after grievance. It would have turned into something like the messy Terrell Owens situation, so that's probably why they just called it a hernia and let Ordonez get away with taking other days off throughout the season.

He did have surgery (we think). If he didn't really have a hernia, that's a big price to pay, even to nail down a $100M contract. But it sure does look like the knee is still a problem and it may have been a problem coincidental to the all-too-convenient hernia. The s-word is piling up.

CluelessJoe1919
11-29-2005, 05:00 PM
According to the Detroit News (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051127/SPORTS0104/511270382/1129):

"10. Magglio Ordonez will be a part-time outfielder next season. Leyland understands Ordonez has limited range and unlimited ability to help the Tigers in one category: hitting. Ordonez's right-field duty figures to be minimal."

Interesting as to why his range would be limited if his knee injury is fully healed. Hmmm.......Looks like the Tigers got themselves a $75 million DH.
When I first read Ordonez's ridiculous contract, I thought I also read that Detroit could buy him out after one year. Did I read this wrong? Does anyone know the exact contract?

Whitesox029
11-29-2005, 11:01 PM
This is going to sound cliche, but...
Magglio who?
As far as I'm concerned, he's as distant a memory as Larry Thomas, Matt Karchner, Bill Simas, David Wells, Todd Ritchie, Al Levine, Bob Howry, Keith Foulke, D'Angelo Jimenez...need I continue?

buehrle4cy05
11-29-2005, 11:14 PM
This is going to sound cliche, but...
Magglio who?
As far as I'm concerned, he's as distant a memory as Larry Thomas, Matt Karchner, Bill Simas, David Wells, Todd Ritchie, Al Levine, Bob Howry, Keith Foulke, D'Angelo Jimenez...need I continue?

Billy Koch.

Jermaine Dye's winning the World Series MVP did a lot to make me forget Maggs.

Frater Perdurabo
11-30-2005, 09:16 AM
Billy Koch.

Jermaine Dye's winning the World Series MVP did a lot to make me forget Maggs.

Something tells me Maggs would have hit a bunch of meaningless two-out, bases-empty doubles in the postseason, but would have found a way to K or ground out in the top of the ninth of Game 4 against the Astros.

elrod
11-30-2005, 04:05 PM
This could also spawn a couple of other questions or threads:

1. Are the Tigers the worst-run franchise (compared to other such stellar entries as the Pirates, the Marlins, the Orioles, anyone else you'd care to put in)? They certainly spend enough money ($69 million for 15th place overall). Are they just proof that you can be rich and stupid at the same time?

2. The role of the agent in sports is clearly to get his/her client the most money possible, and it would be very easy to point a finger at Boras on this (as likeable as he is). Is it fair to ask if he and Ordonez knew that the injury was worse than it was when they negotiated the contract or is this just a case of "buyer beware"?

The Marlins? They won 2 World Series in the last 8 years. I wouldn't call them poorly run. They just have no fans and a crappy stadium.