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otis
11-26-2005, 08:58 PM
I just heard from my source two White Sox notes. First, the Sox offered McCarthy and Anderson for Ichiro but were turned down by Seattle. (They don't want to trade Ichiro). Second, with Thome in the fold the Sox still prefer to keep Konerko; however, if he signs elsewhere Sox have targeted Nomar for DH. I'll keep you posted.

KRS1
11-26-2005, 09:03 PM
What's the score? Also, I smell BS on this one, if KW wouldnt trade these two for Chavez and Zito I HIGHLY doubt he would for Ichiro.

ilsox7
11-26-2005, 09:03 PM
What's the score? Also, I smell BS on this one, if KW wouldnt trade these two for Chavez and Zito I HIGHLY doubt he would for Ichiro.

You're new. Otis has proved himself over time.

Palehose13
11-26-2005, 09:06 PM
:drool:

Ichiro!

KRS1
11-26-2005, 09:06 PM
You're new. Otis has proved himself over time.

Umm...Yeah new, Ive read most of his posts and a lot of them seem sketch.

ilsox7
11-26-2005, 09:07 PM
Umm...Yeah new, Ive read most of his posts and a lot of them seem sketch.

He broke the Maggs-Nomar trade a week or two before it became public.

OzzieBall2005
11-26-2005, 09:09 PM
You're new. Otis has proved himself over time.

I'll take your word for it, but what else has he sniffed up previously?

Palehose13
11-26-2005, 09:10 PM
I'll take your word for it, but what else has he sniffed up previously?

See the post above yours. He broke it here before anyone else did.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=26998

KRS1
11-26-2005, 09:11 PM
He broke the Maggs-Nomar trade a week or two before it became public.

At the time it was pretty well known that both guys where on the market, couldn't it have been an assumption on his behalf since we had no SS.

ilsox7
11-26-2005, 09:12 PM
At the time it was pretty well known that both guys where on the market, couldn't it have been an assumption on his behalf since we had no SS.

Maggs wasn't really on the market in December of 2003.

Palehose13
11-26-2005, 09:13 PM
At the time it was pretty well known that both guys where on the market, couldn't it have been an assumption on his behalf since we had no SS.

Hindsight is great, eh?

Actually, IIRC, no one knew that Magglio was on the market..not even Magglio and that is why he had a "bad taste" in his mouth in regards to the Sox and didn't want to sign the contract offered to him after those rumors.

pearso66
11-26-2005, 09:29 PM
I don't know, I don't buy that KW would attempt to trade Anderson and Mccarthy for Ichicro, and that if they did, that Seattle turned it down.

On the other hand, I could see them thikning about Nomar, but why not just resign Thomas? Nomar has had injury problems the past few years also, and is going to be more expensive and want a longer deal.

I know Otis has broken news here before, but I don't buy this.

Tragg
11-26-2005, 10:04 PM
I'm glad SEattle didn't accept that trade -

Nomar is really a downgrade; he can play some positions, which is a good thing, but he didn't have a good year last year when he wasn't injured. He's hit 30 homers only twice in his career, the last in 1998. He's not a great walker either, so if his BA goes down, his value plummets. Shouldnt' cost more than $6 mill, I wouldn't think, off of that miserable year last year.

We do need to sign a free agent, so we don't have to trade players for everything, but it would be nice to do better than nomar.
Williams should have $15 million to spend right now; wonder what else he has in mind?

santo=dorf
11-27-2005, 12:40 AM
He broke the Maggs-Nomar trade a week or two before it became public.

It wasn't that much earlier, in fact I recall his version including the Angels, Konerko, Koch, and a couple of scrubs from the "Bad News Bears."
:rolleyes:

The Deacon
11-27-2005, 12:50 AM
See the post above yours. He broke it here before anyone else did.

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=26998

Please, broke the trade that NEVER happened? Who is the source, Peter Gammons? You read enough articles and post them you're bound to get one half-right.

The Deacon
11-27-2005, 12:55 AM
I don't know, I don't buy that KW would attempt to trade Anderson and Mccarthy for Ichicro, and that if they did, that Seattle turned it down.

On the other hand, I could see them thikning about Nomar, but why not just resign Thomas? Nomar has had injury problems the past few years also, and is going to be more expensive and want a longer deal.

I know Otis has broken news here before, but I don't buy this.

I buy that Kenny would offer those 2. I DONT BUY that Ichiro is on the market. Why would they trade him, b/c he is unhappy? Please. Ichiro gives Seattle his salary back through foreign advertising (ever see the ads in Seattle? Yes, half are in Japanese) and foreign TV.
So from a business perspective... Seattle has a player that pays for himself AND brings the team foreign markets that arent available to other teams and they want to trade him, WHY? B/c he is unhappy? Ha. Laughable.

ilsox7
11-27-2005, 01:17 AM
I buy that Kenny would offer those 2. I DONT BUY that Ichiro is on the market. Why would they trade him, b/c he is unhappy? Please. Ichiro gives Seattle his salary back through foreign advertising (ever see the ads in Seattle? Yes, half are in Japanese) and foreign TV.
So from a business perspective... Seattle has a player that pays for himself AND brings the team foreign markets that arent available to other teams and they want to trade him, WHY? B/c he is unhappy? Ha. Laughable.

Uhh, that's EXACTLY what Otis said. Ichiro is not on the market.

It's funny, WSI gets so many trolls proclaiming to have inside information or something of the sort that when we actually have a person who over the years has been able to provide some limited information, people will probably end up driving him away. And these are the same people that go crazy for hundreds of posts about trade rumors on the Sportscrap Radio shows. The irony.

cornball
11-27-2005, 09:16 AM
I would agree Nomar would be a main target for DH if PK does not sign. It would also give assurances if Crede has back problems.

I do think Konarko will sign and agree with Kenny trying to speed up the process to have more options just in case.

Ichiro would be a huge PR blunder for the Mariners if they traded him, it is nice to see KW agressive.

kevin57
11-27-2005, 11:37 AM
I can believe that KW made such an offer and that Seattle would have turned him down for the reason given.

I'm kind of glad it didn't go through, though. That trade would have lit up this board! It would have made the Rowand-Thome trade look like a minor league transaction.

Nomar instead of Konerko. As a "Plan D," maybe. Maybe

doctor30th
11-27-2005, 12:03 PM
Otis is always good for it. He might have only 39 posts but maybe thats because he only posts when there is something important to say rather than posting every little stupid thing that alot of people post on here. 39 posts that are interesting is better than 500 to 2000 of crap. No offense to anyone.

kevin57
11-27-2005, 12:07 PM
Otis is always good for it. He might have only 39 posts but maybe thats because he only posts when there is something important to say rather than posting every little stupid thing that alot of people post on here. 39 posts that are interesting is better than 500 to 2000 of crap. No offense to anyone.

None taken...especially from someone with more than 500 posts.:tongue:

Palehose13
11-27-2005, 01:42 PM
Please, broke the trade that NEVER happened? Who is the source, Peter Gammons? You read enough articles and post them you're bound to get one half-right.

Stop with the revisionist history.

1. There were absolutely NO RUMORS about Maggs for Nomar in the media before otis' post.

2. The trade almost did happen(ARod for Manny), but the player's union axed it.

3. Otis only has 39 posts. I'd say he has a pretty good average.

4. Get off your high horse. I put the thread into "What's the score?" immediately. Believe him or not.

SoxFan76
11-27-2005, 03:59 PM
Stop with the revisionist history.

1. There were absolutely NO RUMORS about Maggs for Nomar in the media before otis' post.

2. The trade almost did happen, but the player's union axed it.

3. Otis only has 39 posts. I'd say he has a pretty good average.

4. Get off your high horse. I put the thread into "What's the score?" immediately. Believe him or not.

The reaction is to be expected with the surplus of new posters coming during the playoffs. They don't know any better.

If you don't want to trust otis' posts, then don't. I always look forward to them, however.

kittle42
11-27-2005, 05:09 PM
McCarthy and Anderson for Ichiro would have been a terrible trade, IMO.

MadetoOrta
11-27-2005, 05:13 PM
McCarthy and Anderson for Ichiro would have been a terrible trade, IMO.

Completely agree. Thanks Seattle for being stupid. I have some faith in Otis. I just have a hard time believing KW would trade McCarthy right now. He's dirt cheap with great stuff. I will say though that Ichiro and Pods would light the AL on fire. Thome would've driven in 160 runs. Still glad it didn't happen. McCarthy is the future.

Mohoney
11-27-2005, 05:30 PM
McCarthy and Anderson for Ichiro would have been a terrible trade, IMO.

I don't know, kittle. If they make this trade and re-sign Konerko, I'm just about ready to invest a whole lot of money into printing "back to back champions" merchandise.

Brian26
11-27-2005, 06:06 PM
You're new. Otis has proved himself over time.

Yep. Otis is the real deal, and I believe this 100%. KW's had his eye on Nomar since before the '04 season. This move would not surprise me at all.

Tragg
11-27-2005, 06:15 PM
McCarthy and Anderson for Ichiro would have been a terrible trade, IMO.

Amen

Brian26
11-27-2005, 06:18 PM
Here's a post from Otis on June 2, 2004.

Garcia was acquired by the Sox on June 27.


I stand by my previous statement of the White Sox wishlist being Ben Sheets, CC Sabathia, and Freddy Garcia. Since the last post, nothing much has changed. My source has told me to expect a trade sooner than later. He said that the Sox haven't promoted Reed or Borchard because he expects one of them to go in a trade. As he put it, with Magglio's impending free agency the White Sox need to bring up one of those guys to see if either would be a viable replacement. It doesn't make baseball sense to leave these guys in the minors when the baseball world thinks both are major league ready. Bringing either up now has more of a chance to hurt their value than increase it. If either were to be promoted and stuggle their value is shot. Also, what if one of these guys comes up and goes crazy. Sure, the trade value goes up, but how does KW sell it to you the White Sox fan that he is trading away a major league star. It was pointed out to me that a team like the White Sox can't afford a PR nightmare like this. The fact that KW is going out of his way to say Joe Borchard is untouchable, only means he is driving his price up. The Sox (White & Red) are sending a scout to Anaheim to watch Sheet's start this week. Word on the street is Kenny will pull the trigger on a trade for a starting pitcher in the next two weeks and promote the remaing player (Reed or Borchard).

Brian26
11-27-2005, 06:26 PM
This is absolutely fascinating to go back and review. Another post from Otis on January 15, 2004 is attached. That Magglio-to-Boston trade would have had significant implications on both the 2004 World Champions and the 2005 World Champions. It is quite possible that neither Red Sox nor the White Sox would have won the World Series based on the player movements, contracts, and subsequent injuries that would have occurred. Someone could write a book on the implications of this non-trade.

From what I am told, a Nomar/Willimamson/Damon for Magglio/Valentin/prospect/4th player* would be done by Boston. It is the White Sox that will not take on Damon's salary without clearing money. If they do clear money, the trade has a good chance to happen. The fact the White Sox have spent all off season unable to clear money, does not give the Boston folks hope it will happen. Boston may revisit trading Nomar to Anaheim.
*The 4th player would be a low salary major league player. My guess would be Rowand or Wright.

Hangar18
11-27-2005, 06:30 PM
The only reason I wouldnt mind Nomar coming to the SOX as the new DH, is he most likely would come very very CHEAPLY. Thats it. The reason I dont want him, is hes been tainted .......... having worn a Cub uniform now. Were a Championship Franchise now, and we dont have to tolerate losers on our team anymore.

veeter
11-27-2005, 07:05 PM
It has been confirmed on several occsasions that the Sox inquired about Ichiro. Seattle simply said, apparently, he's off limits. That being said, if indeed it was BMac and Anderson KW offered up, that would be a DUMB move. As much as I admire Kenny, I think he's gotten very, very, lucky on a couple of occasions on trades that did not go through. The Garland/ Erstad thing IMO was a BAD thought, among others. I don't know how many of the hundreds of rumors that swirl around Kenny are true, but man he's scary sometimes.

Palehose13
11-27-2005, 07:10 PM
The only reason I wouldnt mind Nomar coming to the SOX as the new DH, is he most likely would come very very CHEAPLY. Thats it. The reason I dont want him, is hes been tainted .......... having worn a Cub uniform now. Were a Championship Franchise now, and we dont have to tolerate losers on our team anymore.

Christ Hangar, you don't want him cause he has "cubbie cooties"???? I'd take Derek Lee in a heartbeat, no matter what uniform he wore for the last two years. Absolutely ridiculous.

If Paulie isn't re-signed I think Nomar wouldn't be a bad choice for DH.

buehrle4cy05
11-27-2005, 07:37 PM
The only reason I wouldnt mind Nomar coming to the SOX as the new DH, is he most likely would come very very CHEAPLY. Thats it. The reason I dont want him, is hes been tainted .......... having worn a Cub uniform now. Were a Championship Franchise now, and we dont have to tolerate losers on our team anymore.

So you wouldn't take Aramis Ramirez or Derrek Lee because they have played for the Cubs? I don't understand at all. I don't like the Cubs, and nobody else here does, but not to the extent that I think all their players are damaged goods.

kittle42
11-27-2005, 08:16 PM
So you wouldn't take Aramis Ramirez or Derrek Lee because they have played for the Cubs? I don't understand at all. I don't like the Cubs, and nobody else here does, but not to the extent that I think all their players are damaged goods.

I have to agree. Maybe the Sox should give them Garland back because he played in their minor league system.

MrRoboto83
11-27-2005, 09:49 PM
I think BMac should be untouchable now.

DickAllen72
11-27-2005, 10:09 PM
Otis is always good for it. He might have only 39 posts but maybe thats because he only posts when there is something important to say rather than posting every little stupid thing that alot of people post on here. 39 posts that are interesting is better than 500 to 2000 of crap. No offense to anyone.
Amen to that!

nodiggity59
11-27-2005, 10:10 PM
In the Tribune's book on the Sox's season, they have a game by game summary of the season. When you look at BMac's stats over the last 2 months, you realize that he is absolutely untouchable. If KW wants to give up Young, etc that's fine b/c Ichiro is a damn fine player and he will help our franchise in terms of image as well. But at this point you can't trade a guy who I think will put up a minimum of 13 wins and 180 innings for the low low rate of ~$300,000.

batmanZoSo
11-28-2005, 12:10 AM
It has been confirmed on several occsasions that the Sox inquired about Ichiro. Seattle simply said, apparently, he's off limits. That being said, if indeed it was BMac and Anderson KW offered up, that would be a DUMB move. As much as I admire Kenny, I think he's gotten very, very, lucky on a couple of occasions on trades that did not go through. The Garland/ Erstad thing IMO was a BAD thought, among others. I don't know how many of the hundreds of rumors that swirl around Kenny are true, but man he's scary sometimes.

Yeah, to an extent, but if they were so bad from our standpoint, then you gotta wonder why in each example the trade was nixed by the other team.

Soxfan35
11-28-2005, 12:21 AM
I'm going to have to agree Hangar on this one. I've talked too much crap over the years about nomar to have him play for the sox. Besides, if you're going to take a risk on a player like that, why not just bring back the greatest player in franchise history?

kittle42
11-28-2005, 09:40 AM
I'm going to have to agree Hangar on this one. I've talked too much crap over the years about nomar to have him play for the sox.

Maybe we should give Thome back because he played so many years for the hated Indians, too.

:rolleyes:

Palehose13
11-28-2005, 12:27 PM
Maybe we should give Thome back because he played so many years for the hated Indians, too.

:rolleyes:

Absolutely. You might as well include AJ, Contreras(Yankees), El Duque(Yankees), Podsednik (Hey, Seattle swept us in 2000!), and Dye (I sure hated Oakland in the late 80's/early 90's).

Mohoney
11-28-2005, 09:57 PM
If we got the rebuilding Mariners to throw in Jamie Moyer if we sweetened the pot with Marte and a prospect, would you guys object to that? If we sign Konerko and Frank, the Mariners decide to move these guys and go young, Moyer waives his no-trade clause, and Jerry goes all-out and gives Kenny the finances to make this happen, I think something like this is doable for both sides.

If we made an offer like this:

McCarthy
Anderson
Marte
Diaz, Munoz, Haeger, somebody along those lines that Seattle likes

and got back:

Ichiro
Moyer

We would stack up our parent club like this to go for a repeat.

Pitchers: 11
Buehrle
Garcia
Contreras
Garland
Moyer
Hernandez (I would like him back)
Cotts
Politte
Vizcaino
Jenks
Hermanson (I would like him back)

Catchers: 2
Pierzynski
Widger

Infielders: 7
Konerko
Thome
Iguchi
Uribe
Crede
Ozuna
Harris

Outfielders: 4

Ichiro
Podsednik
Dye
Timo

DH: 1

Frank

Maybe I'm nuts, but this 25 man roster BLOWS AWAY our roster that WON THE WORLD SERIES!

Imagine this lineup:

1 Podsednik CF
2 Ichiro RF
3 Dye LF
4 Thome DH
5 Konerko 1B
6 Iguchi 2B
7 AJ C
8 Crede 3B
9 Uribe SS

Imagine this rotation:

Buehrle
Garcia
Contreras
Garland
Moyer

Imagine this bullpen:

Cotts
Politte
Hermanson
Hernandez
Vizcaino
Jenks

Imagine this bench:

Frank (primary DH against LHP, primary PH, gets in 110 or so games)
Widger
Ozuna
Timo
Harris

I would trade the potential of McCarthy and Anderson IN A HEARTBEAT to go to war with this team, without question. I don't care if McCarthy wins 300 games in Seattle if Ichiro hits .330 and steals 40+ bags for us in 2006, and Moyer wins 12-15 games and logs 200+ innings IN THE NUMBER 5 SLOT in 2006.

The stakes have been raised now. It's all about repeating. It's obvious by the Thome trade that Kenny is in full WIN NOW mode. I just hope to God that Seattle caves and trades Ichiro to us.