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The Deacon
11-26-2005, 12:25 PM
Levin and BDawg were interviweing Rick Hahn, Assistant GM, this morning on AM1000. He had some pretty interesting things to say. The one thing that struck me most was that the SOX still have a desire for and will be pursing a 'prototypical #2 hitter' so they can bat Iguchi #6 or 7. He emphasized that a typical #2 hitter is not necessarily a speed demon but more of a high OBP guy.
I know everyone is talking Pierre but who else would be a good fit?? At this point, the only open position would be CF. (please dont say Gathwright). Ideas?

munchman33
11-26-2005, 12:29 PM
1B is also an open position. If Paulie leaves and Frank isn't healthy enough to sign, we're probably looking at someone like Lyle Overbay for the two-hole.

miker
11-26-2005, 12:31 PM
1B is also an open position. If Paulie leaves and Frank isn't healthy enough to sign, we're probably looking at someone like Lyle Overbay for the two-hole.

Does Overbay really make enough contact to be a #2 hitter?

The Deacon
11-26-2005, 12:32 PM
1B is also an open position. If Paulie leaves and Frank isn't healthy enough to sign, we're probably looking at someone like Lyle Overbay for the two-hole.

Overbay would be nice. Definitely not fast, but high OBP and a solid hitter. Thats one thing I think the SOX really need, a solid .320+ hitter. Although OVerbay hasnt hit that high yet in his career, he probably has the potential.

munchman33
11-26-2005, 12:38 PM
Does Overbay really make enough contact to be a #2 hitter?

He makes good contact in the strike zone. And has an excellent eye.

RowanDye
11-26-2005, 12:39 PM
Levin and BDawg were interviweing Rick Hahn, Assistant GM, this morning on AM1000. He had some pretty interesting things to say. The one thing that struck me most was that the SOX still have a desire for and will be pursing a 'prototypical #2 hitter' so they can bat Iguchi #6 or 7. He emphasized that a typical #2 hitter is not necessarily a speed demon but more of a high OBP guy.
I know everyone is talking Pierre but who else would be a good fit?? At this point, the only open position would be CF. (please dont say Gathwright). Ideas?

Griffey and Giles come to mind as high OBP guys but I don't think we see either of them in a Sox uni. Overbay is an option, but I'd rather see Bill Mueller because he can play 3rd.

buehrle4cy05
11-26-2005, 12:50 PM
Griffey and Giles come to mind as high OBP guys but I don't think we see either of them in a Sox uni. Overbay is an option, but I'd rather see Bill Mueller because he can play 3rd.

I like Bill Mueller a lot, but you don't sign him to start at third. You sign him as insurance in case Joe's back starts to act up again.

Rgilliam32
11-26-2005, 01:04 PM
I Think Ozuna is fine backup for any injury not lasting over a month.

caulfield12
11-26-2005, 01:08 PM
Levin and BDawg were interviweing Rick Hahn, Assistant GM, this morning on AM1000. He had some pretty interesting things to say. The one thing that struck me most was that the SOX still have a desire for and will be pursing a 'prototypical #2 hitter' so they can bat Iguchi #6 or 7. He emphasized that a typical #2 hitter is not necessarily a speed demon but more of a high OBP guy.
I know everyone is talking Pierre but who else would be a good fit?? At this point, the only open position would be CF. (please dont say Gathwright). Ideas?

The other interesting thing Ive read today is that they want Konerko (if he returns) hitting fourth with Thome 5th.

That still leaves the DH spot and-or CF open.

I can see Dye hitting third or fourth, but we are still one hitter short, and I dont think it will be Thomas anymore.

The focus really seems to have shifted to Jerry Owens after his Venezuelan League season and the fact Ozzie is now more familiar with him...Anderson is still the front-runner if they dont go out and get another hitter, but it could get interesting if Anderson doesnt cut down his Ks and make better contact (see Crede, Joe...2000-2002).

lths06
11-26-2005, 01:20 PM
What about Rafael Furcal? Great speed and one heck of an arm.

caulfield12
11-26-2005, 01:25 PM
What about Rafael Furcal? Great speed and one heck of an arm.

In CF? Anderson and Young would be blocked.

We cant sign him for one year.

And taking him at SS means paying him $6 million more than Uribe and having to give away Uribe for less than he is worth, as everyone in baseball would be aware of the fact that we have to dump him....although he would make more sense as a back-up at $4 million than El Duque at $4.5-5.0 million.

If you watched the last game of the WS, it is difficult to imagine Juan on the bench. We have bigger needs than Furcal with the limited payroll flexibility we have left for 2006.

Taliesinrk
11-26-2005, 01:27 PM
Overbay would be nice. Definitely not fast, but high OBP and a solid hitter. Thats one thing I think the SOX really need, a solid .320+ hitter. Although OVerbay hasnt hit that high yet in his career, he probably has the potential.

Sorry, I'm not a complete expert (understatement) on Overbay here.. Can he play other positions besides 1B? If we could work him into the OF and then sign Frank, then I think you have a pretty good line-up IMO. 2-3-4 Overbay-frank-thome... I like it. You also have a back-up at DH/1B if Frank or Thome go down, with Anderson/Owens replacing him in the OF. Right now, if Konerko falls through, I still think the Sox look pretty good going after another 2/3 hitter in the OF and signing Frank.

caulfield12
11-26-2005, 01:33 PM
Sorry, I'm not a complete expert (understatement) on Overbay here.. Can he play other positions besides 1B? If we could work him into the OF and then sign Frank, then I think you have a pretty good line-up IMO. 2-3-4 Overbay-frank-thome... I like it. You also have a back-up at DH/1B if Frank or Thome go down, with Anderson/Owens replacing him in the OF. Right now, if Konerko falls through, I still think the Sox look pretty good going after another 2/3 hitter in the OF and signing Frank.

Frank is down to about a 20% chance of returning. There is no way there will be more conclusive information in two weeks on his health status. There is still a possibility to get him after May 1st. But another team will sign him for under $1 million and incentives I think.

Giles and Delgado are out...Helton is too expensive. They really are going to have to comb through the high OBP, $4-8 million range of outfielders than can hit in the 2 spot. There arent too many, and even the Marlins are not going to give Miguel Cabrera to the White Sox for free unless they are totally insane and want to drive the franchise value down to below 0.

In actuality, Milton Bradley is the best possible option, but the clubhouse and chemistry options are not worth it....but KW is THINKING it, IMO.

MarySwiss
11-26-2005, 02:31 PM
The other interesting thing Ive read today is that they want Konerko (if he returns) hitting fourth with Thome 5th.

That still leaves the DH spot and-or CF open.


Where did you read that? If by "they" we're talking about someone actually connected with the team, it seems odd to me. If Paulie re-signs, Thome is obviously the main DH; they can't both play first base at the same time, and you want them both in the starting lineup the majority of the time. I'd be interested in reading the entire article.

CluelessJoe1919
11-26-2005, 02:49 PM
Don't be shocked. Angels are after Konerko and also have Casey Kotchmann and the overpriced Steve Finley...
The Sox have already tried to get Erstad in the past.
This is not necessarily what I would do, but KW seems to like these kind of vets.

caulfield12
11-26-2005, 03:19 PM
Don't be shocked. Angels are after Konerko and also have Casey Kotchmann and the overpriced Steve Finley...
The Sox have already tried to get Erstad in the past.
This is not necessarily what I would do, but KW seems to like these kind of vets.

They also have Dallas McPherson and Kendry Morales, the Cuban defector and most hyped minor league hitter, in their system.

A Konerko signing to me makes much more sense for the White Sox than the Angels.

longshot7
11-26-2005, 04:26 PM
A Konerko signing to me makes much more sense for the White Sox than the Angels.

Not really. Erstad's production has gone down the last few years, but then again so has Finley's. The Angels want to sign Paulie, move Darin to CF, and bench Finley (even at his contract.) Whether or not they will get what they want remains to be seen. Personally, having followed the Angels a lot, I think moving Erstad to Center is an injury waiting to happen. Of course, they could rotate Erstad & Konerko at 1B & DH, but do you really want Erstad DH'ing? I don't. Figgins will get the 3B job unless another injury forces him to play somewhere else, and Morales will stay in the minors, maybe moving up to AAA this year.

kwolf68
11-26-2005, 04:30 PM
I don't want Pierre....He has one of the worst arms in professional baseball. Great speed, but he only hit .276 last year, so he's nothing special.

I have no interest in him. I like the CF prospects we have (Anderson, Owens, Young) and short of making a major deal for a Carl Crawford type I'm not interested in punch and judy hitters who can't throw the ball very far when we have such great talent ready to perform.

SOXSINCE'70
11-26-2005, 04:37 PM
The week leading up to the Winter Meetings (12/5-12/8)
should prove to be verrrrrry interesting.

CPditka
11-26-2005, 06:23 PM
Levin and BDawg were interviweing Rick Hahn, Assistant GM, this morning on AM1000. He had some pretty interesting things to say. The one thing that struck me most was that the SOX still have a desire for and will be pursing a 'prototypical #2 hitter' so they can bat Iguchi #6 or 7. He emphasized that a typical #2 hitter is not necessarily a speed demon but more of a high OBP guy.
I know everyone is talking Pierre but who else would be a good fit?? At this point, the only open position would be CF. (please dont say Gathwright). Ideas?

The rumblings and bumblings I have heard after listening to the radio all week are that KW wants the Konerko thing settled by the winter meetings (so he knows if he needs to make a deal). Its basically between the sox, angels, and orioles for Konerko. The Red Sox are interested in trading for overbay. The angels have many options at 1b already and i dont think Konerko wants to become a DH at the age of 29.

Some other options we have are pursuing Carl Crawford from Tampa, Alex Rios from Toronto, possible to pursue Kielty or Byrnes. Dont count out a pursuit of Jay Gibbons as well, he blends a nice mix of power and batting avg who doesn't strike out all that much. On the Konerko front if Paulie doesn't come back there is a possibilty KW tries to get Erstad to fill the void. He is also a guy with a good mix of power, speed, and avg.

sircaffey1
11-26-2005, 07:42 PM
I think we'll be surprised by who our #2 hitter is next season. I don't see Pierre coming to the Sox anymore, and I definitely see this as an "under-the-radar"-type deal.

pissonthecubs
11-26-2005, 09:42 PM
1B is also an open position. If Paulie leaves and Frank isn't healthy enough to sign, we're probably looking at someone like Lyle Overbay for the two-hole.

Of the handfull of Brewer's games each of the last couple years, Overbay seems to be best fitted for the 5 or 6 hole. I would like to see someone will a solid OPS and with good speed, I don't have any numbers or names in front of me right now, but I think it might be time to go to baseball-reference.com and start digging for some numbers.

Taliesinrk
11-26-2005, 10:13 PM
Frank is down to about a 20% chance of returning. There is no way there will be more conclusive information in two weeks on his health status. There is still a possibility to get him after May 1st. But another team will sign him for under $1 million and incentives I think.

Giles and Delgado are out...Helton is too expensive. They really are going to have to comb through the high OBP, $4-8 million range of outfielders than can hit in the 2 spot. There arent too many, and even the Marlins are not going to give Miguel Cabrera to the White Sox for free unless they are totally insane and want to drive the franchise value down to below 0.

In actuality, Milton Bradley is the best possible option, but the clubhouse and chemistry options are not worth it....but KW is THINKING it, IMO.

Where the hell do you get something like 20%??? I mean do you just pull that number out of nowhere? Furthermore, isn't there a possibility they know more by dec. 7th because of Frank getting his cast off (I think it comes off in early december IIRC). I certainly hope not MIlton Bradley.. I don't think there's any way in hell KW considers that one. Furthermore, no one has answered my Overbay versatility question... Why wouldn't that scenario work out?? Except for the "20%", I mean...

PaulDrake
11-26-2005, 10:39 PM
I don't want Pierre....He has one of the worst arms in professional baseball. Great speed, but he only hit .276 last year, so he's nothing special.

I have no interest in him. I like the CF prospects we have (Anderson, Owens, Young) and short of making a major deal for a Carl Crawford type I'm not interested in punch and judy hitters who can't throw the ball very far when we have such great talent ready to perform. I'm glad I'm not the only one who is not impressed with Juan Pierre.

CallMeNuts
11-26-2005, 10:59 PM
Furthermore, no one has answered my Overbay versatility question... Why wouldn't that scenario work out?? .

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/stats/player_locator_results.jsp?playerLocator=overbay

Per mlb.com, Overbay has never played an inning at a postion besides 1B in his MLB career.

The Deacon
11-27-2005, 12:35 AM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who is not impressed with Juan Pierre.

I'm VERY impressed with Juan Pierre. HOWEVER, I'm not very impressed with Juan Pierre and Pods batting back-to-back in the same lineup...After all, they are the same player (Pierre actually has better stats and they both have horrible arms) Sorry, don't see how you can hate Pierre AND like Pods too. I love them BOTH but don't want Pierre on the SOX in 2006. :D:

SoXPriDe33
11-27-2005, 10:17 AM
I'm VERY impressed with Juan Pierre. HOWEVER, I'm not very impressed with Juan Pierre and Pods batting back-to-back in the same lineup...After all, they are the same player (Pierre actually has better stats and they both have horrible arms) Sorry, don't see how you can hate Pierre AND like Pods too. I love them BOTH but don't want Pierre on the SOX in 2006. :D:

I agree 100% with you I love what Juan Pierre and Pods bring to the table, but both in the same lineup batting back to back is not good. They both have weak arms and are basically speed players. If the Sox were going to take advantage of the Marlins firesale I would like to see them make an attempt at Luis Castillo. I know that Iguchi is still here but I'd like this only if PK doesn't resign because you can have Thome play 1B, and you can move Iguchi and Castillo between DH and 2B. It's just an idea if the Sox are getting a #2 hitter, Castillo fits in perfectly. Of couse this is pending that the marlins want to get rid of all their talent.

caulfield12
11-27-2005, 11:43 AM
The rumblings and bumblings I have heard after listening to the radio all week are that KW wants the Konerko thing settled by the winter meetings (so he knows if he needs to make a deal). Its basically between the sox, angels, and orioles for Konerko. The Red Sox are interested in trading for overbay. The angels have many options at 1b already and i dont think Konerko wants to become a DH at the age of 29.

Some other options we have are pursuing Carl Crawford from Tampa, Alex Rios from Toronto, possible to pursue Kielty or Byrnes. Dont count out a pursuit of Jay Gibbons as well, he blends a nice mix of power and batting avg who doesn't strike out all that much. On the Konerko front if Paulie doesn't come back there is a possibilty KW tries to get Erstad to fill the void. He is also a guy with a good mix of power, speed, and avg.

Crawford....stop dreaming

Rios...we have better prospects down the line that are cheaper

Kielty-Byrnes...there would be riots if either of these guys were starting in the OF, especially Kielty

Gibbons...not a CFer, and we already have two DH´s in Thome and Thomas

jabrch
11-27-2005, 11:59 AM
Lyle Overbay is grossly overrated around these parts. I can't seem to figure out why. His only marketable skill is the fact that he walks. That's it. He has terrible power for a 1B. He has no speed. His defense is average. And he is a below average hitter for a 1B. (.276 in 2 of the past 3 years). This guy is really not good. He walks alot - and strikes out a TON for a guy with no power, because his first choice seems to be to NOT swing at the ball. He's Adam Dunn with no power.

Really...I have 0 interest in seeing Overbay play for us. I'd rather see Carl back. I don't think he is any better than Kevin Millar, who we could have for free if we wanted him.

PLEASE

Don't trade anything of value for Lyle Overbay.

jabrch
11-27-2005, 12:02 PM
Overbay would be nice. Definitely not fast, but high OBP and a solid hitter. Thats one thing I think the SOX really need, a solid .320+ hitter. Although OVerbay hasnt hit that high yet in his career, he probably has the potential.

He has hit .276 in two of the past three years. There is no reason to believe he will be raising that by 50 pts anytime soon.

a 1B with mediocre D, no power, and an expected avg. between .275 and .285? Sorry - this really doesn't excite me at all. I'm sure we can do better than that.

I really do still expect PK back.

caulfield12
11-27-2005, 12:33 PM
He has hit .276 in two of the past three years. There is no reason to believe he will be raising that by 50 pts anytime soon.

a 1B with mediocre D, no power, and an expected avg. between .275 and .285? Sorry - this really doesn't excite me at all. I'm sure we can do better than that.

I really do still expect PK back.

We could also get someone like Scott Hatteberg out of the FA market for almost nothing.

Overbay addresses the overall team OBP concerns...but a healthy Thome solves a major part of that problem.

sean
11-27-2005, 02:15 PM
What about Rafael Furcal? Great speed and one heck of an arm.
If Konerko doesn't come back, I like the idea of spending that money on Furcal.
Maybe this is looking too far into it (or posting on what's the score), but if Konerko doesn't come back, why not try to trade Crede and a prospect to Milwaukee for Overbay (since Milwaukee is looking for a 3b) then move Uribe to third and sign Furcal to hit second and play short?

MarySwiss
11-27-2005, 02:26 PM
If Konerko doesn't come back, I like the idea of spending that money on Furcal.
Maybe this is looking too far into it (or posting on what's the score), but if Konerko doesn't come back, why not try to trade Crede and a prospect to Milwaukee for Overbay (since Milwaukee is looking for a 3b) then move Uribe to third and sign Furcal to hit second and play short?

IMO, Crede > Overbay.

caulfield12
11-27-2005, 06:31 PM
If Konerko doesn't come back, I like the idea of spending that money on Furcal.
Maybe this is looking too far into it (or posting on what's the score), but if Konerko doesn't come back, why not try to trade Crede and a prospect to Milwaukee for Overbay (since Milwaukee is looking for a 3b) then move Uribe to third and sign Furcal to hit second and play short?

That´s pretty much not going to happen.

We still have Crede under control for two years at relatively bargain rates if he keeps playing like August, September and October.

It makes no sense to start moving players around (see Jose Valentin disaster) when our infield chemistry is already fine.

With our payroll, we are never going to pay Furcal $6 million more than Uribe, because the overall difference between the two players is not worth that....not to mention you weaken the infield defense a little with Uribe at 3B instead of Crede, and you lose some more power from the line-up, which we cannot afford.