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bigredrudy
11-26-2005, 08:34 AM
You can usually tell what KW is thinking by his comments. He seems to wear his emotions on his sleeve. In reading his comments today I got the feeling that he is frustrated with the Konerko situation.He actually began to talk about a time limit insofar as Konerko is concerned. My guess is that Konerko will not be resigned as KW needs to do something about first base or the outfield. Konerko just wants to lay back and wait.

caulfield12
11-26-2005, 08:56 AM
You can usually tell what KW is thinking by his comments. He seems to wear his emotions on his sleeve. In reading his comments today I got the feeling that he is frustrated with the Konerko situation.He actually began to talk about a time limit insofar as Konerko is concerned. My guess is that Konerko will not be resigned as KW needs to do something about first base or the outfield. Konerko just wants to lay back and wait.

The only question mark is whether KW will go out and get a one year rental like Pierre or take his chances with Anderson or Owens, unless Chris Young has an incredible spring training. Based on his play in the AFL, Young still has at least one season in the minors.

A lot depends on what happens with the Konerko-DH spot. If Konerko is back, we can afford to go with Anderson. If not, there will be too much offensive uncertainty (Crede was mentioned again with his back problems and the possible Bill Mueller move) and KW will have to add a proven veteran to strengthen the line-up.

I can´t imagine him going into ST with Anderson as CF and in-house or Thomas option at DH.

Glad that we didn´t give up Contreras or McCarthy....sad that Gio Gonzalez might become the next Barry Zito, but we´ve had exactly three minor league pitchers become quality major league starters in the last 7-8 years (Buehrle, McCarthy, Kip Wells-Fogg, Garland, sort of, more a Cubs prospect), so I am not counting on it.

Fredsox
11-26-2005, 12:34 PM
Disagree. The truth is that the only teams seriously courting PK are the Angels and the White Sox (if the media reports are true). Unless they guarantee him both more money AND that he will play 1st base for 100+ games he'll be back in black pinstripes for a fair price.

The Deacon
11-26-2005, 12:38 PM
Disagree. The truth is that the only teams seriously courting PK are the Angels and the White Sox (if the media reports are true). Unless they guarantee him both more money AND that he will play 1st base for 100+ games he'll be back in black pinstripes for a fair price.

The only teams we've heard about have been the Angels and the SOX. I'm sure there are some others out there. IMO the huge sleeper out there is the Dodgers.

Fredsox
11-26-2005, 12:59 PM
The only teams we've heard about have been the Angels and the SOX. I'm sure there are some others out there. IMO the huge sleeper out there is the Dodgers.

Possibly, if you believe that PK will sign with a team in that condition. It's contrary to what his agent has said about him wanting to play for a contender. They don't have a GM right now or a field manager, so if you feel he'd be interested in playing for a team like that, then you could be right. I agree that they could use him but I'm not certain that he'd really consider them as an option.

caulfield12
11-26-2005, 01:13 PM
Disagree. The truth is that the only teams seriously courting PK are the Angels and the White Sox (if the media reports are true). Unless they guarantee him both more money AND that he will play 1st base for 100+ games he'll be back in black pinstripes for a fair price.

The latest consensus seems to be $13 million for 4 seasons with an option for a fifth (based on incentives probably, or could be a team-player option like with Thomas).

The Thome signing should pull the White Sox slightly ahead of the Angels. We should know a lot more about how this 2006 team will look in two weeks.

RedPinStripes
11-26-2005, 01:18 PM
Possibly, if you believe that PK will sign with a team in that condition. It's contrary to what his agent has said about him wanting to play for a contender. They don't have a GM right now or a field manager, so if you feel he'd be interested in playing for a team like that, then you could be right. I agree that they could use him but I'm not certain that he'd really consider them as an option.

I dont listen to half of wht these agents say. Paulie's agent isnt a big time guy as far as i know so he's trying to get rich on this one. magglio said the Sox dont care about winning and wanted to win, so he goes to Detroit? LOL

caulfield12
11-26-2005, 01:29 PM
I dont listen to half of wht these agents say. Paulie's agent isnt a big time guy as far as i know so he's trying to get rich on this one. magglio said the Sox dont care about winning and wanted to win, so he goes to Detroit? LOL

The Tigers have spent more than the Sox, just on the wrong players.

Closer accused of murder in Venezuela
Dean Palmer
Bobby Higginson
Percival
I-Rod after the roids binge
too much money and too much time for Maggs
Juan Gonzalez

The other problem is that Munson and Pena never developed as projected, although they havent totally given up on Pena.

Its one of the reasons they now have to trade Craig Monroe and sign another pitcher, because they have been dumb, dumb, dumb. But that shouldnt last too much longer with Dombrowski and Leyland reunited.

Steelrod
11-26-2005, 01:37 PM
I dont listen to half of wht these agents say. Paulie's agent isnt a big time guy as far as i know so he's trying to get rich on this one. magglio said the Sox dont care about winning and wanted to win, so he goes to Detroit? LOL

Paulies agent is an excellant agent, the son of former outfielder Jim Landis. He is also Rowands agent, and many others. He is not a spotlight guy, but does a good job. Unlike Boras, he also understnads the value of team and player comfort. He would not suggest a player squeeze the last dime and go where they wouldn't be comfortable, but we'll see!

Lip Man 1
11-26-2005, 01:58 PM
I was surpised that Kenny publicly in essence set a deadline of December 8th. Now I understand he can't wait forever but this is the sort of thing I figured he'd tell Craig Landis and Paul privately.

Making public comments also alerts other clubs into what your potential future holds, including any deals that may be simmering and it may cause some other clubs in the Konerko derby to deliberately wait figuring the Sox will soon drop out and it increases their chances.

It seems to run opposite to Kenny's 'under the radar' philosophy.

We'll see.

Lip

Ol' No. 2
11-26-2005, 02:08 PM
I was surpised that Kenny publicly in essence set a deadline of December 8th. Now I understand he can't wait forever but this is the sort of thing I figured he'd tell Craig Landis and Paul privately.

Making public comments also alerts other clubs into what your potential future holds, including any deals that may be simmering and it may cause some other clubs in the Konerko derby to deliberately wait figuring the Sox will soon drop out and it increases their chances.

It seems to run opposite to Kenny's 'under the radar' philosophy.

We'll see.

LipWhat makes you think he hasn't told them already? He's just laying his cards on the table. He can't wait and wait and then be stuck like the Astros were last year. If another club thinks they can wait out the situation, it could backfire if PK decides to make his decision on Dec 7 and they haven't got an offer in.

Right now it seems the only other suitors are the Angels and Orioles (has this been confirmed anywhere?). If this was Boras, he'd try to wait and get a big-spending team involved to try to drive up the price, but neither of the traditional big-spending teams have the money to play. I think this will get done by Kenny's deadline.

kevin57
11-26-2005, 02:12 PM
I read KW's statement as part-strategy, that is, to put a little heat on PK to make a decision and part-announcement to Sox fans that Konerko may not be wearing black next year. I also endorse what Williams is doing. With a poor free agent class this year and the Sox able to identify their needs very specifically, nobody can hold the team "hostage" while they weigh this, that, and every other thing. I also think KW--and baseball insiders--know what's being offered to Konerko. Thus, there are only so many ways to analyze, evaluate, and decide. Time to s*** or get off the pot, Paulie.

I'll still lay odds on PK back with the Sox next year, but there's a little more nervousness in AZ, I'd say.

CluelessJoe1919
11-26-2005, 02:32 PM
KW is probably going to make his offer of about $50 million or so for four years in the hopes that Konerko will jump at it before hearing other offers later in the off-season.
KW can always sign Player B (whoever that is) to play first base, but he can always deal Player B and re-enter the PK sweepstakes once the other free agents (Piazza, Ramirez-trade, Sweeney-trade and Garciaparra) have settled in whereever they are going.
This is nothing more than a ploy to save $5-10 million on the PK bidding process.

Ol' No. 2
11-26-2005, 02:34 PM
KW is probably going to make his offer of about $50 million or so for four years in the hopes that Konerko will jump at it before hearing other offers later in the off-season.
KW can always sign Player B (whoever that is) to play first base, but he can always deal Player B and re-enter the PK sweepstakes once the other free agents (Piazza, Ramirez-trade, Sweeney-trade and Garciaparra) have settled in whereever they are going.
This is nothing more than a ploy to save $5-10 million on the PK bidding process.No he can't. If you sign a FA, you can't trade him until the following June 15. That rule was put in place specifically to prevent the kind of thing you're suggesting.

Paulwny
11-26-2005, 02:43 PM
Very smart move by KW, telling PK that after the dead-line the big pay day is probably flying out the window with the Angels being the only other interested team.

Let's see who blinks first, my bet PK.

flo-B-flo
11-26-2005, 02:46 PM
Trading for Thome has given KW lots of options. Things will clear up here shortly during the winter meetings. I keep thinking he has other things up his sleeve. We shall see. After a world championship, KW has earned my trust.

Flight #24
11-26-2005, 03:16 PM
I was surpised that Kenny publicly in essence set a deadline of December 8th. Now I understand he can't wait forever but this is the sort of thing I figured he'd tell Craig Landis and Paul privately.

Making public comments also alerts other clubs into what your potential future holds, including any deals that may be simmering and it may cause some other clubs in the Konerko derby to deliberately wait figuring the Sox will soon drop out and it increases their chances.

It seems to run opposite to Kenny's 'under the radar' philosophy.

We'll see.

Lip

This is just based on my own interpretation of what we've all seen & heard about Paulie's various "offers", to FWIW.

IMO the big interst & offers aren't flowing. At best, there's a rumored 4-yr offer from LA at less than the Sox were willing to do, then there's a possible bigger deal from the O's if he wants to pur money over all else. Seems like Paulie's been hoping that by waiting the market will come to him in the form of the BoSox, etc or the Angels/Sox upping their deal.

KW has probably been telling him that he can't wait forever. Now that he's got Thome, he has a far stronger position with which to move on should he need to. So he tells Paulie that, then comes out publicly to get the fans on his side and hopefully provide that little extra incentive for Paulie to end the waiting/hoping game and accept the reality that is still a pretty good one: a 4/$52 offer from the Sox with some sort of 5th year option.

Basically, Paulie's been counting on his leverage with the Sox as their only power hitter and the fan favorite to play the game his way. KW's removed one of those legs and is hacking away at the other one to bring PK to the table.

RKMeibalane
11-26-2005, 03:20 PM
This wouldn't be such a big deal if the Sox knew that Thomas would be healthy to start the season. But, since they don't have that guarantee, it's probably best that they try to lock up Konerko as soon as possible. I'm glad that Williams is setting a dealine to get this thing worked out.

caulfield12
11-26-2005, 03:47 PM
This is just based on my own interpretation of what we've all seen & heard about Paulie's various "offers", to FWIW.

IMO the big interst & offers aren't flowing. At best, there's a rumored 4-yr offer from LA at less than the Sox were willing to do, then there's a possible bigger deal from the O's if he wants to pur money over all else. Seems like Paulie's been hoping that by waiting the market will come to him in the form of the BoSox, etc or the Angels/Sox upping their deal.

KW has probably been telling him that he can't wait forever. Now that he's got Thome, he has a far stronger position with which to move on should he need to. So he tells Paulie that, then comes out publicly to get the fans on his side and hopefully provide that little extra incentive for Paulie to end the waiting/hoping game and accept the reality that is still a pretty good one: a 4/$52 offer from the Sox with some sort of 5th year option.

Basically, Paulie's been counting on his leverage with the Sox as their only power hitter and the fan favorite to play the game his way. KW's removed one of those legs and is hacking away at the other one to bring PK to the table.

The ball is in Paulie´s court, along with public opinion shifting to the side of the White Sox.

If Thome and a chance to repeat is not enough, then it won´t get done. We will hear about Arizona and proximity to his family, but the reality will be that the player´s union wanted him to get $1-2 million more per season, artificially slotting up the other big contracts this season with PK setting the standard.

I don´t think Paulie will let this be the final factor...I still have a hard time seeing Paulie absent for the ring ceremony after giving the ball to JR, but if he has the 4 year, $52 million deal with a 5th year option, then it´s about money more than anything, because he´s already set for life before this deal.

JackParkman
11-26-2005, 03:48 PM
The only teams we've heard about have been the Angels and the SOX. I'm sure there are some others out there. IMO the huge sleeper out there is the Dodgers.

On the Score this week Farmer said Baltimore either has or will soon be making a substantial offer to Konerko.

mdep524
11-26-2005, 03:51 PM
If Thome and a chance to repeat is not enough, then it won´t get done. We will hear about Arizona and proximity to his family, but the reality will be that the player´s union wanted him to get $1-2 million more per season, artificially slotting up the other big contracts this season with PK setting the standard. BINGO!

caulfield12
11-26-2005, 03:55 PM
On the Score this week Farmer said Baltimore either has or will soon be making a substantial offer to Konerko.

If PK wants to join the dysfunctional mess that has been the Orioles for the past decade, good luck.

I think they have a chance with Mazzone and Perlozzo and NO Ponson, Sosa or Palmeiro as distractions, but they have lots of holes.

They do not have any aces in their starting staff, and they just let their best reliever go....perhaps wisely considering it Ryan is going to get $9 million per season, roughly.

pissonthecubs
11-26-2005, 09:49 PM
Do you take from KW's comments that he knows a team like the Angels can/will off PK a 5 year deal and Kenny's hand's are kind of tied with team policy of contracts not going over 4 years and that might be the deciding factor for PK and his agent? I don't agree with KW coming out saying he wants something done by the end of the GM meetings, let things work themselves out. I really don't like when teams put deadlines on when deals will be done by or else.

hi8is
11-26-2005, 09:55 PM
... I really don't like when teams put deadlines on when deals will be done by or else.

why?

joepoe
11-26-2005, 10:13 PM
The Tigers have spent more than the Sox, just on the wrong players.

Closer accused of murder in Venezuela
Dean Palmer
Bobby Higginson
Percival
I-Rod after the roids binge
too much money and too much time for Maggs
Juan Gonzalez

.

Gotta love Dumbrowsky. Emphasis on Dumb. Cub-like Dumb.

RedPinStripes
11-27-2005, 01:43 PM
Paulies agent is an excellant agent, the son of former outfielder Jim Landis. He is also Rowands agent, and many others. He is not a spotlight guy, but does a good job. Unlike Boras, he also understnads the value of team and player comfort. He would not suggest a player squeeze the last dime and go where they wouldn't be comfortable, but we'll see!

I sure hope so. I normally don't get caught up in players salaries and getting pissed over the money they make, but when I see an agent like Satan and Drew Rosenhaus. (Spelling?), that's when I look at players as real ********s.

I just laugh when I see players go to real dumb organizations like Baltimore or Detroit because they say they care about winning. No! it's because these are the indiots who pay 100 million + to finish in 4th place! The Yankees are headed in that direction too, just like they were in the mid 80's.......BAD!

caulfield12
11-27-2005, 06:34 PM
Do you take from KW's comments that he knows a team like the Angels can/will off PK a 5 year deal and Kenny's hand's are kind of tied with team policy of contracts not going over 4 years and that might be the deciding factor for PK and his agent? I don't agree with KW coming out saying he wants something done by the end of the GM meetings, let things work themselves out. I really don't like when teams put deadlines on when deals will be done by or else.

December 7th or 8th is the deadline to bring Thomas back before May 1st, if at all. KW needs to know about PK...if PK is gone, he still has the ability to sign Frank for DH for a couple of million, plus incentives.

Chicken Dinner
11-27-2005, 07:49 PM
December 7th or 8th is the deadline to bring Thomas back before May 1st, if at all. KW needs to know about PK...if PK is gone, he still has the ability to sign Frank for DH for a couple of million, plus incentives.

December 7th is the last day a club has to offer arbitration to a free agent. Frank would not be arbitration eligible so if no contact is in place, Frank is most likely out. Paulie I'm sure will be asked to go to arbitration so he's not much of a factor.