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View Full Version : What do you do with Borchard?


Chicken Dinner
11-25-2005, 05:40 PM
He's out of minor league options, so you can't send him back to the Knights.
He hasn't been able to hit in the bigs.
Do you give him Timo's job or cut your loses?

ewokpelts
11-25-2005, 05:42 PM
same as you do with old yeller....

SoxFan76
11-25-2005, 05:44 PM
same as you do with old yeller....

lol!

eurotrash35
11-25-2005, 05:45 PM
take him out behind the barn

MarySwiss
11-25-2005, 05:47 PM
He's out of minor league options, so you can't send him back to the Knights.
He hasn't been able to hit in the bigs.
Do you give him Timo's job or cut your loses?

Wave bye-bye. As you said, he hasn't been able to hit in the bigs, Timo has, and that's what it's all about.

Crede_Fan
11-25-2005, 05:49 PM
You've spent all that money on him, so give him a shot at Timo's spot. You need that 4th OF. And its not like you got much out of Timo this past year. I know its not a popular option, but I'd really give him a shot. Especially if Frank doesn't re-sign. We need a big pinch hitter. And Borchard might fit that position.

krispoulin
11-25-2005, 05:55 PM
The only light at the end of The Borchard Tunnel is a train outta town.

ChiSoxLifer
11-25-2005, 05:56 PM
He's out of minor league options, so you can't send him back to the Knights.
He hasn't been able to hit in the bigs.
Do you give him Timo's job or cut your loses?

Hand him a tray, give him 3 dozen bags of peanuts, and send him out to the bleachers.

Nyls Nyman
11-25-2005, 05:57 PM
Ask David McCarty to adopt him.

Baby Fisk
11-25-2005, 05:57 PM
http://www.mlbmascots.com/images/white%20sox/mascot.jpg

"Hi kids!"

Jjav829
11-25-2005, 05:59 PM
*Official* World Series trophy guard.

:LTP
"Hey, back away from the glass. No leaning over the rope."

Ol' No. 2
11-25-2005, 06:03 PM
How long you going to wait? A rebuilding team might be willing to take a chance on him. Give him one last shot in ST, then if he doesn't come through, trade him for whatever you can get. That's how the Sox got Damaso Marte.

MarySwiss
11-25-2005, 06:05 PM
How long you going to wait? A rebuilding team might be willing to take a chance on him. Give him one last shot in ST, then if he doesn't come through, trade him for whatever you can get. That's how the Sox got Damaso Marte.

Yup, nailed it!

Frater Perdurabo
11-25-2005, 06:09 PM
If he shows a little something in spring training, he ought to be the 4th/5th outfielder/pinch hitter. In admittedly limited at bats in 2005, he did show an ability to produce as a pinch-hitter. He's good enough defensively to play anywhere in the outfield and not hurt the Sox. The fact that he is a threat to go yard (or light tower!) from both sides of the plate makes him more valuable than Timo.

Keep him.

kwolf68
11-25-2005, 06:23 PM
If he shows a little something in spring training, he ought to be the 4th/5th outfielder/pinch hitter. In admittedly limited at bats in 2005, he did show an ability to produce as a pinch-hitter. He's good enough defensively to play anywhere in the outfield and not hurt the Sox. The fact that he is a threat to go yard (or light tower!) from both sides of the plate makes him more valuable than Timo.

Keep him.

I like Joe, but he struggles a ton from the right side. From the left side, there is something there maybe. I was impressed with his plate presence at the end of last season. He sure can hit a ball hard. His worst moments were probably the Millwood game and I think Millwood strikes out Ted Williams that night as he was so dominant.

Joe Borchard takes a lot of abuse, but he's a member of my favorite baseball team so I support him and do see some potential there.

Daver
11-25-2005, 06:23 PM
Let him compete for a position in ST, if he doesn't earn a spot he can be left unprotected in the rule 5 draft.

soxtalker
11-25-2005, 06:35 PM
If it were up to the consensus on this board, Joe would have been gone early last year. With all the good outfield prospects working their way through our minor league system, I don't think that KW would keep him around just because they spent a bunch of money a few years ago. So, I'd guess that KW and the organization see something there.

kwolf68
11-25-2005, 06:39 PM
If it were up to the consensus on this board, Joe would have been gone early last year. With all the good outfield prospects working their way through our minor league system, I don't think that KW would keep him around just because they spent a bunch of money a few years ago. So, I'd guess that KW and the organization see something there.

Good point. When KW deals off young guns, we are told to "trust KW". By winning the WS, I agree we should trust him. That being said, if KW ISNT dealing players that we all think need to go, then we should trust KW here again.

So if JB is out there I am confident he can and will get the job done, because KW has allowed him to be a part of this team. I hope the guy turns it around.

Soxfan35
11-25-2005, 07:31 PM
Is Joe planning on playing winter ball at all? We all know how much that helped him last season.

CallMeNuts
11-25-2005, 07:31 PM
How long you going to wait? A rebuilding team might be willing to take a chance on him. Give him one last shot in ST, then if he doesn't come through, trade him for whatever you can get. That's how the Sox got Damaso Marte.

And even if he does have a good Spring Training, trade him for whatever you can get. We've got Anderson, Owens, Young and Sweeney waiting in line.

Chips
11-25-2005, 09:34 PM
Wave bye-bye. As you said, he hasn't been able to hit in the bigs, Timo has, and that's what it's all about.

Timo batted .218 last season, I don't care about his 2 clutch hits. He is the only guy on the team that I hate. I give Borchard his job in a heartbeat. Joe showed us in his few games last season what we have been waiting 5 years for him to do. He hit .417 in the few games he played in. I would much rather see him coming off the bench instead of Timo Perez. Timo is a bum.

Chips
11-25-2005, 09:35 PM
Is Joe planning on playing winter ball at all? We all know how much that helped him last season.

:tealtutor:

richb2
11-25-2005, 09:42 PM
hi-give him a chance in spring training as the 4th or 5th outfielder or a shot for a position on the bench. If he does not make it try to trade him if all else release him.

soxfanreggie
11-25-2005, 10:43 PM
I say give Timo, Joe, Gload, and a few others a shot at being the 4th/5th OF. Timo will cost you a mil or more. Borchard must really start showing his potential. As for Gload, if he can stay healthy, he can give us a back-up RF, a great left handed bat, and a defensive sub at 1B.

I do agree with Daver about the Rule V draft...it he isn't cutting it and someone wants to take him...they can have him.

Brian26
11-25-2005, 10:47 PM
Timo batted .218 last season, I don't care about his 2 clutch hits.

That's funny because you're completely telling the truth. I remember the Memorial Day hit that scored Willie to beat the Angels. The second hit tied the game in the 9th, but didn't we end up losing that one? I can't remember who it was against. Ozzie loves Timo, though, so Borchard will probably really have to have a good Spring to beat him out in 2006.

TimoPerez
11-25-2005, 10:50 PM
Timo batted .218 last season, I don't care about his 2 clutch hits. He is the only guy on the team that I hate. I give Borchard his job in a heartbeat. Joe showed us in his few games last season what we have been waiting 5 years for him to do. He hit .417 in the few games he played in. I would much rather see him coming off the bench instead of Timo Perez. Timo is a bum.

In 12 at-bats from July 2nd through 19th, Timo hit .500. Borchard hit .417 in 12 at-bats on the season. Why don't you think Timo is good too? Sample size is a very important thing.

I could cherrypick stats and make Mario Mendoza look good.

Chips
11-25-2005, 11:01 PM
In 12 at-bats from July 2nd through 19th, Timo hit .500. Borchard hit .417 in 12 at-bats on the season. Why don't you think Timo is good too? Sample size is a very important thing.

I could cherrypick stats and make Mario Mendoza look good.

I don't think Timo is good because he sucks. Everytime he comes to bat I say to myself, is he ground out, strike out, pop out, or is he going to show bunt, pull it back and then do a swinging bunt whiling grounding into an inning ending double play?

Timo has no power, he is good for nothing except wasting 1 million bucks a season. Borchard has power, he has shown his power, he just completely sucked for since we drafted him until last season, where he finally showed that he can hit the ball. He made 4 errors in his limited playing time. He was the worst leadoff hitter we had. He was worst DH we had all season. He did nothing besides that memorial day game. Nothing.

Brian26
11-25-2005, 11:07 PM
In 12 at-bats from July 2nd through 19th, Timo hit .500. Borchard hit .417 in 12 at-bats on the season. Why don't you think Timo is good too? Sample size is a very important thing.

I could cherrypick stats and make Mario Mendoza look good.

I completely disagree with everything you say, but I really enjoy the execution and delivery on this post. Any Mario Mendoza reference deserves a :thumbsup:

Fake Chet Lemon
11-25-2005, 11:13 PM
When it's close, Ozzie takes the Latin guys (just ask Brandon McCarthy how Luis Vizciano enjoyed Brandon's post-season roster spot.) Remember Ozzie late last year saying how the Latin players would kill him if he got rid of Timo, right before he also ripped the organization for having too many white pitchers in the minor league system? So anyway, Borchard would have to have a lights-out Spring Training, like hitting .500+ to make the team over Timo. I'm not emotionally invested in Borchard, good or bad like so many here. Whatever Ozzie decides this Spring is cool with me. I'll move on.

kevin57
11-25-2005, 11:17 PM
When it's close, Ozzie takes the Latin guys (just ask Brandon McCarthy how Luis Vizciano enjoyed Brandon's post-season roster spot.) Remember Ozzie late last year saying how the Latin players would kill him if he got rid of Timo, right before he also ripped the organization for having too many white pitchers in the minor league system? So anyway, Borchard would have to have a lights-out Spring Training, like hitting .500+ to make the team over Timo. I'm not emotionally invested in Borchard, good or bad like so many here. Whatever Ozzie decides this Spring is cool with me. I'll move on.

:worship:
It's not politically correct to point out such things, and as we (rightly) praise Ozzie, this should not blind us to his blind spots. I posited the same hypothesis in Aug./Sept. re: Marte. No other explanation really made sense.

Chips
11-25-2005, 11:22 PM
In 12 at-bats from July 2nd through 19th, Timo hit .500. Borchard hit .417 in 12 at-bats on the season. Why don't you think Timo is good too? Sample size is a very important thing.

I could cherrypick stats and make Mario Mendoza look good.

Timo played in 5 games for us in that time period and he didn't win any games for us.

TheOldRoman
11-25-2005, 11:25 PM
When it's close, Ozzie takes the Latin guys (just ask Brandon McCarthy how Luis Vizciano enjoyed Brandon's post-season roster spot.) Remember Ozzie late last year saying how the Latin players would kill him if he got rid of Timo, right before he also ripped the organization for having too many white pitchers in the minor league system? So anyway, Borchard would have to have a lights-out Spring Training, like hitting .500+ to make the team over Timo. I'm not emotionally invested in Borchard, good or bad like so many here. Whatever Ozzie decides this Spring is cool with me. I'll move on.
You couldn't be more wrong on this.
Viz enjoyed "McCarthy's" post season roster spot because he was a relief pitcher, and he had a strong second half. Ozzie wanted to put BMac on the team, but he felt bringing him out of the bullpen in such a big game so early in his career would not be good. He thought it wouldn't be fair to McCarthy, because he is a starter. He had never pitched short relief.
Also, Ozzie didn't rip the organization for having too many white pitchers. He ripped the organization for not doing better scouting of Latin American pitchers. There are certainly lots of talented pitchers in Latin America, and I believe all of the Sox top pitching prospects are American. He has a piont.

The Deacon
11-25-2005, 11:29 PM
Timo played in 5 games for us in that time period and he didn't win any games for us.

I will sleep well at night knowing Timo is not playing for the White Sox. The only reason he was on the roster: He was lefty. We can do better than him inside our system.

TheOldRoman
11-25-2005, 11:45 PM
Timo batted .218 last season, I don't care about his 2 clutch hits. He is the only guy on the team that I hate. I give Borchard his job in a heartbeat. Joe showed us in his few games last season what we have been waiting 5 years for him to do. He hit .417 in the few games he played in. I would much rather see him coming off the bench instead of Timo Perez. Timo is a bum.
Im not disagreeing with you on Timo, but you can't be serious about Borchard. He played in 7 games. You can't judge anything by seven games. He had better at bats, and it was encouraging seeing him get hits in those games, but that hardly means he has turned the corner. Spring training will determine whether or not Borchard makes the team. 5 hits in 12 at bats doesn't mean any more or less than 0 hits in 12 at bats.

Fake Chet Lemon
11-25-2005, 11:49 PM
How does Borchard vs Timo rate defensively? Timo has the better arm, right?

soxfan1965
11-25-2005, 11:52 PM
If JB doesn't make the team, I hope KW can keep him in the organization in some way, if that's what JB wants. KW and JB have their Stanford connection. JB may have the potential to be a good front office man and as with KW you don't have to be a great former player to be a good baseball executive / coach / manager.

KRS1
11-25-2005, 11:52 PM
Seeing how there is no way we will bring up more than 1 of Owens, Young, and BA, Borch has to be the 4th outfielder since we don not want any of the other guys sitting on the bench when they could be getting experience in AAA. If he just bombs then we r sitting on virtually the same situation as if we dealt him pre-season, but if he steps up into his role it could give us either a very valuable power bat off the bench, or some good trade bait. There is little sense in trading him IMO b4 the season unless we get a suitor willing to give us fair value.

Chips
11-25-2005, 11:53 PM
Im not disagreeing with you on Timo, but you can't be serious about Borchard. He played in 7 games. You can't judge anything by seven games. He had better at bats, and it was encouraging seeing him get hits in those games, but that hardly means he has turned the corner. Spring training will determine whether or not Borchard makes the team. 5 hits in 12 at bats doesn't mean any more or less than 0 hits in 12 at bats.

I am not annointing Borchard as the next Ty Cobb, but the way he was swinging the bat last season in his few at-bats was much more promising than what I've seen from him in the previous years. I would rather see Borchard than Timo any day of the week. I really hate Timo.

KRS1
11-25-2005, 11:54 PM
How does Borchard vs Timo rate defensively? Timo has the better arm, right?

Borch def. stepped up his D last off-season, and can do anything Timo can in the outfield(accept make me nervous with the one handers). Seeing him last ST was pretty much night and day from 2004 where he would almost routinely overun balls. Also, don't sell his arm short, afterall he was a QB.

buehrle4cy05
11-26-2005, 12:02 AM
I don't think Borchard fits the mold of a backup outfielder. I believe that Timo Perez in small doses (ex. off the bench) is a very good thing. He can make contact and doesn't try to take the ball out of the park every time. Joe, on the other hand, seems to play at full tilt, trying to knock the ball 500 feet like he did against Philly. Timo also has a pretty decent arm. Joe's defense is solid, but I think that Timo is a little better.

I think you try to trade Joe for a low level minor leaguer. Remember when we traded Alex Escobar for Jerry Owens?

Palehose13
11-26-2005, 12:20 AM
When it's close, Ozzie takes the Latin guys (just ask Brandon McCarthy how Luis Vizciano enjoyed Brandon's post-season roster spot.) Remember Ozzie late last year saying how the Latin players would kill him if he got rid of Timo, right before he also ripped the organization for having too many white pitchers in the minor league system? So anyway, Borchard would have to have a lights-out Spring Training, like hitting .500+ to make the team over Timo. I'm not emotionally invested in Borchard, good or bad like so many here. Whatever Ozzie decides this Spring is cool with me. I'll move on.

Hey..I think I figured out Mike North's screen name. :cool:

Get off this bull****...it's dangerously close to being roadhouse material.

Lillian
11-26-2005, 07:08 AM
Joe Borchard is a football player, and is still learning to be a baseball player. He is a very good athlete, with some exceptional tools. He has a very good arm, and is very strong. I was there the day he hit the longest homer in the history of the "Cell". It was a very impressive shot.
He has shown some progress. His second half at AAA last year was very good. Ted Williams used to say that it took about 1,000 major league at bats for most hitters to really figure it out. I suspect that JB could be a pretty good hitter, if he had a chance to get that many at bats.
This is a very difficult dilemma for the Sox, as they are out of options on him, and have so many other very promising young outfielders. I hope he gets a chance to demonstrate some real progress in Spring Training. At least then his trade value would rise. The conflicted sentiments on this issue are probably further complicated by the fact that he is a great kid, and well liked by everyone.

wassagstdu
11-26-2005, 08:26 AM
...if he steps up into his role it could give us either a very valuable power bat off the bench, or some good trade bait. There is little sense in trading him IMO b4 the season unless we get a suitor willing to give us fair value.
What was it Ozzie said? "Don't give me tools, give me players." If Borchard has a good spring training, maybe some team that is into tools will give us a player for him.

.

wassagstdu
11-26-2005, 08:36 AM
When it's close, Ozzie takes the Latin guys (just ask Brandon McCarthy how Luis Vizciano enjoyed Brandon's post-season roster spot.) Remember Ozzie late last year saying how the Latin players would kill him if he got rid of Timo, right before he also ripped the organization for having too many white pitchers in the minor league system? So anyway, Borchard would have to have a lights-out Spring Training, like hitting .500+ to make the team over Timo.

This is not only BS but pretty offensive BS. Maybe the worst post I have seen on WSI.

.

Flight #24
11-26-2005, 08:52 AM
It's quite simple. Borchard currently has little to no trade value, so he'll get a lot of opportunities to show something in ST. At that point, it'll be how much he convinces KW/OG of what he can contribute to the team v. what they're offered for him.

Unless he flops again, he'll either be on the team as a backup OF or traded. And if he's hitting halfway decently, a switch-hitting OF with power from both sides and solid D is a good thing to have on the bench, especially for the minimum.

Coolpapa
11-26-2005, 08:58 AM
I saw Borchard play here in Indianapolis two years ago. He has one helluva an arm.

caulfield12
11-26-2005, 09:09 AM
I saw Borchard play here in Indianapolis two years ago. He has one helluva an arm.

Borchard is NOT a CF. Yes, he played QB at Stanford and can throw, but he is a RF or possibly a LF. Heīs an athlete, but do not think Devon White here...heīs just too big to cover that much ground.

Brian Anderson is slotted for that position in 2007 when Dye is gone, so unless Borchard absolutely tears up ST and Anderson stinks, Borchard wonīt be anything but a 4th OF.

The only realistic scenario is the worst case one....Dye having to play 1B, with Thome at DH and Borchard in RF, with Anderson-Young-Owens-Pods in CF and LF. That is not a line-up that KW plans on putting out one the field very often.

alohafri
11-26-2005, 09:18 AM
He's out of minor league options, so you can't send him back to the Knights.
He hasn't been able to hit in the bigs.
Do you give him Timo's job or cut your loses?

I still have leaves in my yard and in my gutters.

SOXSINCE'70
11-26-2005, 09:40 AM
How long you going to wait? A rebuilding team might be willing to take a chance on him. Give him one last shot in ST, then if he doesn't come through, trade him for whatever you can get. That's how the Sox got Damaso Marte.

Cngratulations,we have a winner!!:cool: :cool:
It's ST or buh-bye for Joe Borchard.

caulfield12
11-26-2005, 09:46 AM
Cngratulations,we have a winner!!:cool: :cool:
It's ST or buh-bye for Joe Borchard.

The White Sox got Damaso Marte and Rudy Yan from Pittsburgh for Matt Guerrier, who was one of their top pitching prospects at the time. Everyone thought the Sox were robbed and that Guerrier was the next Greg Maddux, including McClendon and the PiratesīGM (canīt remember if it was Bonifay or Littlefield). Looks like we won with that one...

SOXSINCE'70
11-26-2005, 09:55 AM
The White Sox got Damaso Marte and Rudy Yan from Pittsburgh for Matt Guerrier, who was one of their top pitching prospects at the time. Everyone thought the Sox were robbed and that Guerrier was the next Greg Maddux, including McClendon and the PiratesīGM (canīt remember if it was Bonifay or Littlefield). Looks like we won with that one...

Let's see if KW can do it again with the Pirates or any
other team in MLB.:cool: :cool:

Optipessimism
11-26-2005, 10:16 AM
He'll get a shot in ST, but I think that even if he does well he's still gone. I'd have a hard time believing that the Sox would hold back Anderson/Young/Owens to give Borchard another legitimate shot in the majors.

caulfield12
11-26-2005, 11:27 AM
He'll get a shot in ST, but I think that even if he does well he's still gone. I'd have a hard time believing that the Sox would hold back Anderson/Young/Owens to give Borchard another legitimate shot in the majors.

I think itīs really the opposite. They have already invested $5.3 million in the guy, they have nothing to lose with him as a fourth outfielder (if he earns the spot). Itīs better than giving him away for nothing with no ROI.

OTOH, Anderson, Owens and Young all need to play everyday in order to be viable options. Otherwise, itīs a net minus to have them on the major league roster...maybe Owens as the 4th outfielder, but not Anderson or Young.

We donīt have to worry about getting Joe (or Timo Perez) at-bats like we would with some of our other OF prospects.

TimoPerez
11-26-2005, 01:05 PM
I don't think Timo is good because he sucks. Everytime he comes to bat I say to myself, is he ground out, strike out, pop out, or is he going to show bunt, pull it back and then do a swinging bunt whiling grounding into an inning ending double play?

Timo has no power, he is good for nothing except wasting 1 million bucks a season. Borchard has power, he has shown his power, he just completely sucked for since we drafted him until last season, where he finally showed that he can hit the ball. He made 4 errors in his limited playing time. He was the worst leadoff hitter we had. He was worst DH we had all season. He did nothing besides that memorial day game. Nothing.

What I am trying to say is that every player has a hot streak. You can't judge someone based on 12 at-bats.

TimoPerez
11-26-2005, 01:05 PM
I completely disagree with everything you say, but I really enjoy the execution and delivery on this post. Any Mario Mendoza reference deserves a :thumbsup:

Thanks, I guess.:tongue:

TimoPerez
11-26-2005, 01:08 PM
Timo played in 5 games for us in that time period and he didn't win any games for us.

On the July 9th game, Timo tied the game in the bottom of the ninth to send it to extra innings and he also threw a runner out at home plate. It isn't his fault that the rest of the team didn't hit in extras to win the game. He did all he could.

JohnBasedowYoda
11-26-2005, 01:11 PM
*Official* World Series trophy guard.

:LTP
"Hey, back away from the glass. No leaning over the rope."

nice

The Dude
11-26-2005, 01:30 PM
Wave bye-bye. As you said, he hasn't been able to hit in the bigs, Timo has, and that's what it's all about.

Oh yes Timo has been able to hit in the bigs. And what a huge ****ing threat he is!!!!

I love a .218 BA and a .266 OBP! He should be a fixture on this team for years to come!

CUT THEM BOTH LOOSE!

MarySwiss
11-26-2005, 02:39 PM
Oh yes Timo has been able to hit in the bigs. And what a huge ****ing threat he is!!!!

I love a .218 BA and a .266 OBP! He should be a fixture on this team for years to come!

CUT THEM BOTH LOOSE!


Well, for career it's actually .263 and .302. Which obviously does not compare with Borchard's .191 and .254.

I really don't much care one way or another. All I know is that when Borchard steps up to the plate, I'm not exactly filed with confidence.

CluelessJoe1919
11-26-2005, 02:40 PM
I agree with ya and I was impressed with him last season. Once that swing is corrected, he'll be a heckuva player. He'll have a big ST and he'll emerge with the Sox or with some other club.

Ol' No. 2
11-26-2005, 02:41 PM
Well, for career it's actually .263 and .302. Which obviously does not compare with Borchard's .191 and .254.

I really don't much care one way or another. All I know is that when Borchard steps up to the plate, I'm not exactly filed with confidence.:hawk I LUV tallest midget contests.

MarySwiss
11-26-2005, 02:44 PM
:hawk I LUV tallest midget contests.

:rolling: There you go being succinct again!

Chips
11-26-2005, 03:12 PM
On the July 9th game, Timo tied the game in the bottom of the ninth to send it to extra innings and he also threw a runner out at home plate. It isn't his fault that the rest of the team didn't hit in extras to win the game. He did all he could.

Like I've said, two clutch hits all season long and he deserves a roster spot?

I think Borchard could have hit .300 or so if he had as many at-bats as Timo did. He was seeing the ball much better, he has a stronger arm. NO TIMO.

Dan Mega
11-26-2005, 03:18 PM
Personally I don't like "potential", I like results.

Potential is for Corey Patterson and scrubs fans.

caulfield12
11-26-2005, 03:25 PM
Like I've said, two clutch hits all season long and he deserves a roster spot?

I think Borchard could have hit .300 or so if he had as many at-bats as Timo did. He was seeing the ball much better, he has a stronger arm. NO TIMO.

I specifically remember Perez winning games against Frankie Rodriguez and Armando Benitez (at Florida) with huge hits in 2004, but he is not coming back, and certainly not at $1 million per season.

TimoPerez
11-26-2005, 03:43 PM
Like I've said, two clutch hits all season long and he deserves a roster spot?

I think Borchard could have hit .300 or so if he had as many at-bats as Timo did. He was seeing the ball much better, he has a stronger arm. NO TIMO.

When was he seeing the ball much better? In 12 at-bats? Sample size is very important.

And no offense, but if you think that Borchard has a stronger arm than Timo then you are blind.

Dancin' Homer
11-26-2005, 08:22 PM
Dear Timo,

One handed catches are for hockey defensemen and wide receivers who are being held. Use two hands.

Sincerely,

Dancin' Homer

Chips
11-26-2005, 08:41 PM
Dear Timo,

One handed catches are for hockey defensemen and wide receivers who are being held. Use two hands.

Sincerely,

Dancin' Homer

Amen to that.

The Dude
11-26-2005, 09:03 PM
All I know is that when Borchard steps up to the plate, I'm not exactly filed with confidence.

And you are confident when Timo is up at the plate? :?:

MarySwiss
11-26-2005, 09:07 PM
And you are confident when Timo is up at the plate? :?:

Comparatively.

The Dude
11-26-2005, 09:08 PM
And no offense, but if you think that Borchard has a stronger arm than Timo then you are blind.

No offense..but if you think timo deserves a roster spot, I will question your vision as well.

Banix12
11-26-2005, 09:23 PM
Like I've said, two clutch hits all season long and he deserves a roster spot?

I think Borchard could have hit .300 or so if he had as many at-bats as Timo did. He was seeing the ball much better, he has a stronger arm. NO TIMO.

The only time Joe Borchard hit over .300 at any level of his development was in Rookie ball in 2000. So other than his first 7 games as a prospect, he has never hit .300 at any single level. In fact, other than his 12 ABs this year at the major league level, the last time he even broke the .275 mark was 2001 at AA Birmingham. Why would he hit .300 now?

When you are given two options and they are Timo and Borchard, you choose option three.

pissonthecubs
11-26-2005, 09:28 PM
same as you do with old yeller....

Don't know if I could have said it better.

soxfanreggie
11-26-2005, 09:29 PM
Timo coming back depends on what we can get for the $1 million we would probably have to give him. If he signs for less, then that would be interesting. If we could get somebody better for around the same price, I would obviously go for the better

Hagan
11-26-2005, 09:57 PM
http://www.mlbmascots.com/images/white%20sox/mascot.jpg

"Hi kids!"


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I think we should give him timos job since we put so much money into him, the worst thing that happens is that he sucks and we put someone else there later.

Tragg
11-26-2005, 10:00 PM
You give Borchard a chance to win a spot as a reserve outfielder in the spring.

Anyone see his AAA stats last year? Did he improve his plate discipline any?

joepoe
11-26-2005, 10:09 PM
He's out of minor league options, so you can't send him back to the Knights.
He hasn't been able to hit in the bigs.
Do you give him Timo's job or cut your loses?

Unconditional Release.

Banix12
11-26-2005, 10:11 PM
You give Borchard a chance to win a spot as a reserve outfielder in the spring.

Anyone see his AAA stats last year? Did he improve his plate discipline any?

Not really, 50 walks / 143 K / 494 AB. Pretty standard for what Borchard has shown throughout his minor league career. He did set a new high for HRs hit (29) but his average (.263) and .obp (.335) were pretty much right around his AAA career levels.

He is what he is and I don't think they are going to coach that out of him.

Banix12
11-26-2005, 11:47 PM
I just have a question for anybody here who truly believes that Borchard should be the 4th OF. What leads you to believe that it is going to be different this time?

I pretty much throw out this year's 12 ABs because of small sample size. In the minors his final stats pretty much ended up around his AAA averages (if I'm missing some underlying trends here the minor league experts can correct me).

In my thinking he got 200 ABs in 2004 to show what he can do and he crashed and burned. If he gets a shot next year it will be his fifth year in trying to crack the roster. I just want to know what leads people to believe it will be different.

Also as for this continuing Timo vs Borch tallest midget debate. While I'm still advocating finding a third option, ponder this. While Timo hasn't had a ton of success in his two years here at least when he makes an out he usually puts it in play. He always has low strikeout totals. Borchard pretty much will strike out 1/4th to 1/3rd of the time. If we are talking about a bench player I would rather have the guy who puts the ball in play more often. Sometimes when you are sitting on that bench the swing starts getting rusty and players can be prone to strikeout more often.

That and at least with Timo you know that once upon a time he could effectively and consistantly hit MLB quality pitching. You can't say that about Borchard.

Again, find a third option.

MHOUSE
11-27-2005, 03:32 AM
Borchard sucks. Unless he crushes the ball throughout spring training, you trade him for whatever you can get and cut your losses. Timo does well enough in a reserve role and might I remind you all that TIMO IS CLUTCH. He comes through more often than not in tight spots or, as pointed out before, puts the ball in play and maybe u get an errant throw or a cheap infield single. Borchard will strike out swinging 20 times for every pinch-hit HR he hits over the light tower.

caulfield12
11-27-2005, 11:55 AM
I just have a question for anybody here who truly believes that Borchard should be the 4th OF. What leads you to believe that it is going to be different this time?

I pretty much throw out this year's 12 ABs because of small sample size. In the minors his final stats pretty much ended up around his AAA averages (if I'm missing some underlying trends here the minor league experts can correct me).

In my thinking he got 200 ABs in 2004 to show what he can do and he crashed and burned. If he gets a shot next year it will be his fifth year in trying to crack the roster. I just want to know what leads people to believe it will be different.

Also as for this continuing Timo vs Borch tallest midget debate. While I'm still advocating finding a third option, ponder this. While Timo hasn't had a ton of success in his two years here at least when he makes an out he usually puts it in play. He always has low strikeout totals. Borchard pretty much will strike out 1/4th to 1/3rd of the time. If we are talking about a bench player I would rather have the guy who puts the ball in play more often. Sometimes when you are sitting on that bench the swing starts getting rusty and players can be prone to strikeout more often.

That and at least with Timo you know that once upon a time he could effectively and consistantly hit MLB quality pitching. You can't say that about Borchard.

Again, find a third option.

The signing of Thome lightens the need for a Borchard on the roster, IF healthy.

I would still rather have Ross Gload on the roster than Timo Perez, although Gload is a terrible outfielder. I canīt stand Timoīs hotdogging and one hand catches....although he was our best pinch-hitter in 2004 by far, and won at least two games for us.

The only argument for Borchard is the same that was made for Rowand and Crede...they took 2-3 years to develop. Of course, they had much more success at the big league level, hitting at least .240 or .250 instead of hovering around the Mendoza line for their careers.

RedPinStripes
11-27-2005, 01:28 PM
You've spent all that money on him, so give him a shot at Timo's spot. You need that 4th OF. And its not like you got much out of Timo this past year. I know its not a popular option, but I'd really give him a shot. Especially if Frank doesn't re-sign. We need a big pinch hitter. And Borchard might fit that position.

So what? Can he bunt? Can he get a clutch hit , walk, or will he K 150 times in 300 ab's? I was just as frustrated to see Timo in the "Sunday Lineup" as anyone, but he's a much better option off the bench when you need to get something done.

Ozuna's a nice player off the bench. I just don't know if Borchard will ever live up to what he was supposed to be when he's playing once or twice a week.

CluelessJoe1919
11-27-2005, 02:55 PM
I just have a question for anybody here who truly believes that Borchard should be the 4th OF. What leads you to believe that it is going to be different this time?

I pretty much throw out this year's 12 ABs because of small sample size. In the minors his final stats pretty much ended up around his AAA averages (if I'm missing some underlying trends here the minor league experts can correct me).

In my thinking he got 200 ABs in 2004 to show what he can do and he crashed and burned. If he gets a shot next year it will be his fifth year in trying to crack the roster. I just want to know what leads people to believe it will be different.

Also as for this continuing Timo vs Borch tallest midget debate. While I'm still advocating finding a third option, ponder this. While Timo hasn't had a ton of success in his two years here at least when he makes an out he usually puts it in play. He always has low strikeout totals. Borchard pretty much will strike out 1/4th to 1/3rd of the time. If we are talking about a bench player I would rather have the guy who puts the ball in play more often. Sometimes when you are sitting on that bench the swing starts getting rusty and players can be prone to strikeout more often.

That and at least with Timo you know that once upon a time he could effectively and consistantly hit MLB quality pitching. You can't say that about Borchard.

Again, find a third option.Borchard got up into the .260s last season after a horrendous start. He looked like a different hitter to me when he came back up. He's got tremendous power and appears to have a lot of heart. I hope he makes it all the way up.

Jerome
11-27-2005, 03:24 PM
Timo batted .218 last season, I don't care about his 2 clutch hits. He is the only guy on the team that I hate. I give Borchard his job in a heartbeat. Joe showed us in his few games last season what we have been waiting 5 years for him to do. He hit .417 in the few games he played in. I would much rather see him coming off the bench instead of Timo Perez. Timo is a bum.


I agree, get Timo out of there, Borchard can't possibly be worse as a 4th OF. However I would prefer if neither of them were on the roster, but if I had to choose I would say Borchard.

Banix12
11-27-2005, 05:02 PM
Borchard got up into the .260s last season after a horrendous start. He looked like a different hitter to me when he came back up. He's got tremendous power and appears to have a lot of heart. I hope he makes it all the way up.

Was he really that different though? I understand he built up his Average after a poor start in the minors but his strikeout to walk totals were still horrendous and very similar to his career norms at AAA. He finished at .260 and some might say that he was successful in building it back up, but some others would say that it mostly proves that given 500 ABs his final average ended up around his career average. He wasn't as bad as his start but he also probably wasn't as good as when he was a hot hitter and over time it evened out to the norm. After 1700 AAA at bats a batter should be showing more progress than that.

What I saw when he came up was a guy who can beat marginal major league pitching. He will beat up middle relievers but if a quality pitcher with good control comes in the same methods used before this season (high fastballs, curveballs in the dirt) will get him to strikeout half the time.

Frater Perdurabo
11-27-2005, 05:14 PM
Seems to me there are two jobs that are being discussed in this thread.

The first is a fourth outfielder: a guy who can play anywhere in the outfield and do it reasonably well. Every third or fourth game, this player would start in the outfield and should expect to get 4-5 plate appearances batting in the lower third of the order. Borchard fits that job description better than Timo. He'll strike out a lot, but he should hit .240-.260 and would be a threat to go yard at any time, which is not that different from what Joe Crede (or even Aaron Rowand) did at the plate last year.

The second job is pinch hitter. Here you need someone who can come in and put the ball in play in his one at-bat. Borchard clearly is not suited for this role since he strikes out so much.

Banix12
11-27-2005, 05:28 PM
Seems to me there are two jobs that are being discussed in this thread.

The first is a fourth outfielder: a guy who can play anywhere in the outfield and do it reasonably well. Every third or fourth game, this player would start in the outfield and should expect to get 4-5 plate appearances batting in the lower third of the order. Borchard fits that job description better than Timo. He'll strike out a lot, but he should hit .240-.260 and would be a threat to go yard at any time, which is not that different from what Joe Crede (or even Aaron Rowand) did at the plate last year.

The second job is pinch hitter. Here you need someone who can come in and put the ball in play in his one at-bat. Borchard clearly is not suited for this role since he strikes out so much.

You might have that reversed, oddly enough he was the sox best pinch hitter last season, though most of his hits came in a role where he came off the bench late in games usually against middle relievers and marginal closers. When he got a start, that was when he went 1-6 with 4 strikeouts.

And oddly enough Timo puts the ball in play most of the time and throughout his career he has been a god awful pinch hitter.

There has got to be a better 3rd 4th OF option on the FA list. Orlando Palmeiro anybody? Todd Hollandsworth? Maybe Bernie Williams?

caulfield12
11-27-2005, 06:28 PM
You might have that reversed, oddly enough he was the sox best pinch hitter last season, though most of his hits came in a role where he came off the bench late in games usually against middle relievers and marginal closers. When he got a start, that was when he went 1-6 with 4 strikeouts.

And oddly enough Timo puts the ball in play most of the time and throughout his career he has been a god awful pinch hitter.

There has got to be a better 3rd 4th OF option on the FA list. Orlando Palmeiro anybody? Todd Hollandsworth? Maybe Bernie Williams?

Perez was 4 for 24 with 2 doubles and an RBI as a pinch hitter this season.

2002-2004, 13 for 75 with 6 RBIīs and .419 OPS.

For some reason, I always thought of him as a better pinch hitter...didnīt he beat Frankie Rodriguez and Armando Benitez as a PH in 2004, or was he a starter in one of those games?

Frater Perdurabo
11-27-2005, 06:40 PM
You might have that reversed, oddly enough he was the sox best pinch hitter last season, though most of his hits came in a role where he came off the bench late in games usually against middle relievers and marginal closers. When he got a start, that was when he went 1-6 with 4 strikeouts.

You're right. Although it was a small sample size last year, Borchard did look good in limited pinch hitting duty.

Because he's younger, can hit for mammoth power and showed promise in admittedly few at bats last year, I would choose Borchard over Timo, provided that Borchard doesn't play terrible in spring training.

TheOldRoman
11-27-2005, 06:57 PM
Orlando Palmeiro anybody?
I don't want Orlando Palmeiro for one reason, albeit a dumb superstitious one. He made the last out of the world series.
Edgar Renteria made the last out of the world series for the Cardinals in 04, and signed with the champion Red Sox in the offseason. He had a miserable year, and ended up making the last out of the Red Sox season in the ALDS.

Banix12
11-27-2005, 07:21 PM
Perez was 4 for 24 with 2 doubles and an RBI as a pinch hitter this season.

2002-2004, 13 for 75 with 6 RBIīs and .419 OPS.

For some reason, I always thought of him as a better pinch hitter...didnīt he beat Frankie Rodriguez and Armando Benitez as a PH in 2004, or was he a starter in one of those games?

I'm sure he's won a game or two pinch hitting over time, everybody has their moments.

I think a lot of people think he would be a good pinch hitter mostly because he is that low strikeout type of player who puts the ball in play. And certainly that type of player should be a bit better at it. For some reason Timo just hasn't shown that ability to come off the bench cold and get the job done on a regular basis.

Banix12
11-27-2005, 07:26 PM
I don't want Orlando Palmeiro for one reason, albeit a dumb superstitious one. He made the last out of the world series.
Edgar Renteria made the last out of the world series for the Cardinals in 04, and signed with the champion Red Sox in the offseason. He had a miserable year, and ended up making the last out of the Red Sox season in the ALDS.

Sounds more like an Edgar Renteria problem but I see the logic. Fair enough.

Banix12
11-27-2005, 07:58 PM
You're right. Although it was a small sample size last year, Borchard did look good in limited pinch hitting duty.

Because he's younger, can hit for mammoth power and showed promise in admittedly few at bats last year, I would choose Borchard over Timo, provided that Borchard doesn't play terrible in spring training.

To me because Borchard seems to have plateaued as a hitter in AAA he would have to put up Pablo Ozuna 05/Ross Gload 04 type spring training numbers to earn a spot. A lot of those ABs would have to come against major league level pitching as well for me to really consider him.

I did like a little bit of what he showed in at least the first 6 ABs he had last year out of the 12 he had (Millwood just made him look stupid in that last game, but I'll chalk that up to Millwood), however I really can't overlook the other 280 MLB ABs he has had. Realistically he has 1/2 a season of MLB experience under his belt.

Because of that I think projecting him to be a .240-.260 MLB hitter is being optimistic and hopeful. I think he can be better than the .190 he has hit but it seems to me at best Joe Borchard, if given a full season of MLB ABs, should hit in the .210-.230 range but hit about 25-35 HRs. Basically he could be a Rob Deer type player, which is OK if you are willing to accept that. I would personally like a little more consistancy

As for the age diffence, he is only three years younger than Timo so it's not that huge a difference and by Borchard's age Timo was already starting in the majors and had put up fantastic AAA numbers.

Chicken Dinner
11-27-2005, 08:12 PM
To me because Borchard seems to have plateaued as a hitter in AAA he would have to put up Pablo Ozuna 05/Ross Gload 04 type spring training numbers to earn a spot. A lot of those ABs would have to come against major league level pitching as well for me to really consider him.

I did like a little bit of what he showed in at least the first 6 ABs he had last year out of the 12 he had (Millwood just made him look stupid in that last game, but I'll chalk that up to Millwood), however I really can't overlook the other 280 MLB ABs he has had. Realistically he has 1/2 a season of MLB experience under his belt.

Because of that I think projecting him to be a .240-.260 MLB hitter is being optimistic and hopeful. I think he can be better than the .190 he has hit but it seems to me at best Joe Borchard, if given a full season of MLB ABs, should hit in the .210-.230 range but hit about 25-35 HRs. Basically he could be a Rob Deer type player, which is OK if you are willing to accept that. I would personally like a little more consistancy

As for the age diffence, he is only three years younger than Timo so it's not that huge a difference and by Borchard's age Timo was already starting in the majors and had put up fantastic AAA numbers.

If Borchard could hit 25-30 HR's as a bench player, I'd say he got the job. Unfortunately, he won't be a starter, and will continue to strike out when a big hit is needed. I think he had his shot and now must be put out to pasture. Spring training will be a good battle for that last OF spot though.

Frater Perdurabo
11-27-2005, 08:13 PM
To me because Borchard seems to have plateaued as a hitter in AAA he would have to put up Pablo Ozuna 05/Ross Gload 04 type spring training numbers to earn a spot. A lot of those ABs would have to come against major league level pitching as well for me to really consider him.

I did like a little bit of what he showed in at least the first 6 ABs he had last year out of the 12 he had (Millwood just made him look stupid in that last game, but I'll chalk that up to Millwood), however I really can't overlook the other 280 MLB ABs he has had. Realistically he has 1/2 a season of MLB experience under his belt.

Because of that I think projecting him to be a .240-.260 MLB hitter is being optimistic and hopeful. I think he can be better than the .190 he has hit but it seems to me at best Joe Borchard, if given a full season of MLB ABs, should hit in the .210-.230 range but hit about 25-35 HRs. Basically he could be a Rob Deer type player, which is OK if you are willing to accept that. I would personally like a little more consistancy

As for the age diffence, he is only three years younger than Timo so it's not that huge a difference and by Borchard's age Timo was already starting in the majors and had put up fantastic AAA numbers.

I think Borchard could hit .240-.260 if he played as a fourth OF against certain pitchers for about 200-250 ABs. Of course, because he hasn't played more than a half-season TOTAL against MLB pitching, it would be up to Ozzie to pick the right spots to play him.

TimoPerez
11-27-2005, 08:33 PM
No offense..but if you think timo deserves a roster spot, I will question your vision as well.

He deserves it more than Borchard.

Banix12
11-27-2005, 09:28 PM
I think Borchard could hit .240-.260 if he played as a fourth OF against certain pitchers for about 200-250 ABs. Of course, because he hasn't played more than a half-season TOTAL against MLB pitching, it would be up to Ozzie to pick the right spots to play him.

Even if he bats .240-.260 in the MLB, and that is a fairly high projection for a player who hits .260 against AAA pitching, why would that be a good player to have on the roster? Surely there are players available who can hit more consistantly than that and don't have batting average ceilings that top out at a .260 avg.

Especially considering you would have to keep him out of the lineup against good pitching. Why keep a guy around just because of the possibility he would able to hit .240-.260 against 4th and 5th starters?

Canadian_SoxFan
11-27-2005, 10:04 PM
If Borchard could hit 25-30 HR's as a bench player, I'd say he got the job. Unfortunately, he won't be a starter, and will continue to strike out when a big hit is needed. I think he had his shot and now must be put out to pasture. Spring training will be a good battle for that last OF spot though. While I'd like to see Borchard on the roster, there is NO way he can hit 25-30 home runs coming off the bench.

Frater Perdurabo
11-28-2005, 12:17 AM
Even if he bats .240-.260 in the MLB, and that is a fairly high projection for a player who hits .260 against AAA pitching, why would that be a good player to have on the roster? Surely there are players available who can hit more consistantly than that and don't have batting average ceilings that top out at a .260 avg.

Especially considering you would have to keep him out of the lineup against good pitching. Why keep a guy around just because of the possibility he would able to hit .240-.260 against 4th and 5th starters?

Because he's a better option than Timo as the fourth OF, IMHO.

Banix12
11-28-2005, 02:03 AM
Because he's a better option than Timo as the fourth OF, IMHO.

I'm not totally convinced he is a better option than Timo because in the end we are still talking about an average MLB hitter vs. an Average AAA hitter. And Borchard has yet to do anything at the MLB level that would lead me to say he is a better hitter than Timo.

However why limit the comparisons to just Timo vs. Borchard for the 4th OF spot? I remember last year it was "backup catcher Burke or Davis?", bam, here comes Chris Widger. I can think of any number of available guys off the top of my head who could very well be better than both Timo and Borchard. The question isn't "is Borchard better than Timo?". The question we all need to ask is "Is Borchard the best available option for 4th OF?" To which the answer will inevitably be NO.

As for options...
How about Gabe Kapler?
Dustan Mohr?
John Mabry? He could backup 3b as well.
The guys I mentioned earlier, O. Palmerio and Todd Hollandsworth?

Pittsburgh just designated Tike Redmon for assignment, I think he might be worth looking into as a 4th OF. Good Base stealer, good defensively, rarely strikes out, never developed into a leadoff man so he was expendable and better suited for reserve role.

Actually looking at the guys Designated for Assignment the cubs just designated Adam Greenberg (the guy who got beaned in his only MLB AB), he might be worth taking a flier on if he comes available, at least for Charlotte.

I'm also sure a whole slew of OF will come available after spring training and will be available for trade, much like how the sox got Timo for Matt Ginter.

bigredrudy
11-28-2005, 08:54 AM
Joe Borchard hit 27 homeruns against righthanded pitchers last year. His avarage was .282 against righthanders. You play him against righthanders as he is better hitter against righthanders and that has been his pattern throughout his career.

Frater Perdurabo
11-28-2005, 10:32 AM
:tomatoaward:

As I said, Borchard deserves a spot if he shows promise in spring training. If he's bad, then he's gone. But if he and Timo produce equally well, I'd give the nod to Borchard because he's got more upside. If Timo is markedly better, Timo stays. If both stink, scour the waiver wire.

Banix12
11-28-2005, 01:11 PM
:tomatoaward:

As I said, Borchard deserves a spot if he shows promise in spring training. If he's bad, then he's gone. But if he and Timo produce equally well, I'd give the nod to Borchard because he's got more upside. If Timo is markedly better, Timo stays. If both stink, scour the waiver wire.

I just cannot agree with you that Borchard makes it if he just produces equally to Timo. Borchard has to perform so well in spring training that it makes the team forget 5 years of disappointment. If he just produces equally to Timo, provided both hit over .300. Timo gets the job because he has a MLB track record that states he will hit over the mendoza line if given the shot.

The only way Borchard gets a job is to hit .450 or better and look damn good doing it. Borchard has to pull a Pablo Ozuna to receive ANY consideration. He has to blow every other single option away and by a huge margin because frankly Borchard has done nothing to earn the benefit of the doubt.

Because he was a 1st round pick, got that big contract, and has "potential" everybody wants to forgive this guy for being a below average baseball player because "Man, the upside on Borchard if he ever lives up to his potential." Borchard's potential washed up long ago. It's a myth like the Loch Ness Monster, Sasquatch, or Ben Davis' Potential.

Randar68
11-28-2005, 01:23 PM
As I said, Borchard deserves a spot if he shows promise in spring training. If he's bad, then he's gone. But if he and Timo produce equally well, I'd give the nod to Borchard because he's got more upside. If Timo is markedly better, Timo stays. If both stink, scour the waiver wire.

Timo was on a 1-year contract and may not even be AT spring training.

That being said, Borch can play every OF position better than Timo, and he's going to be far cheaper with Timo having made 1 million last year and Borch will earn near the MLB minimum.

That being said, I worry about Borch playing sporadically simply because of his struggles with a long swing and his confidence issues (worry about him sitting a couple days between AB's/starts and stewing on it)...

I'm still rooting for Borch and it's possible he and Anderson Platoon LH/RH to some degree, although I would prefer Anderson get the majority of the overall AB's.

Chicken Dinner
11-28-2005, 01:28 PM
I seriously doubt that Timo will be in the White Sox camp come spring training time.

mwc44
11-28-2005, 01:37 PM
http://www.mlbmascots.com/images/white%20sox/mascot.jpg

"Hi kids!"

:rolling: OMG!!!! First post in weeks that made me laugh so hard I had tears in my eyes! (I know... I'm easy to please) Has to be the "Post of the Thread!" :rolling:

miker
11-28-2005, 03:05 PM
I don't think Borchard fits the mold of a backup outfielder. I believe that Timo Perez in small doses (ex. off the bench) is a very good thing. He can make contact and doesn't try to take the ball out of the park every time. Joe, on the other hand, seems to play at full tilt, trying to knock the ball 500 feet like he did against Philly. Timo also has a pretty decent arm. Joe's defense is solid, but I think that Timo is a little better.
My thoughts exactly. If Borchard is ever going to harness his talent, it will have to be as an everyday outfielder on a team that is willing to live with him while he learns. Some may argue that it's late for Joe to still be learning, but some guys develop late. Gifted athletes don't always make great ball players.

Banix12
11-28-2005, 04:45 PM
I seriously doubt that Timo will be in the White Sox camp come spring training time.

I think you are right. Looking at the way Kenny locked up reserves like Widger and Ozuna quickly with new deals for next year I think Timo is a serious candidate to become a non-tendered free agent. If they were seriously considering him I think he would have been given some sort of deal by now.

maurice
11-28-2005, 06:08 PM
Borchard is bad, but Perez is worse. Let's compare:
Hit for AVE - they both suck
Hit for power - Borch by a long shot
Run - Borch is faster
Throw - both have very good arms
Catch - Borch by a long shot
Intangibles - Borch is a great guy,
while Timo pals around with Uribe

With Borch around and Uribe more established, there's no sense in re-signing Timo. Bring in some cheapo free agents to compete with Borch for the 4th OF spot in Spring Training. At the very least, Borch is a good defensive sub. If somebody gets injured, you call up Young or Owens.

Alternatively, if Konerko walks, solve this minor issue by signing a DH who can play the OF (ideally Giles).

Banix12
11-28-2005, 06:34 PM
Borchard is bad, but Perez is worse. Let's compare:
Hit for AVE - they both suck
Hit for power - Borch by a long shot
Run - Borch is faster
Throw - both have very good arms
Catch - Borch by a long shot
Intangibles - Borch is a great guy,
while Timo pals around with Uribe

With Borch around and Uribe more established, there's no sense in re-signing Timo. Bring in some cheapo free agents to compete with Borch for the 4th OF spot in Spring Training. At the very least, Borch is a good defensive sub. If somebody gets injured, you call up Young or Owens.

Alternatively, if Konerko walks, solve this minor issue by signing a DH who can play the OF (ideally Giles).

Why does Timo palling around with Uribe make him a bad guy? Am I missing something here?

While neither Timo or Borch are great average hitters, for a time Timo could actually hit for a reasonable average in the major leagues when he was with the Mets, something Borch probably will never do. You say they both suck at AVG and I can agree with that based upon last seasons stats but the answer is probably "They both suck but Borch is the worse of the two."

I don't want to see Timo next season but I sure as hell don't want to see Borch and I'm pretty sure Ozzie will remember his 200 pointless ABs in 2004 and agree with me. Bring on the other guys.

maurice
11-28-2005, 06:46 PM
Why does Timo palling around with Uribe make him a bad guy?

It doesn't, but it's certainly not worth $1 mil., when you can easily replace him with a faster, more powerful, and better defensive replacement for 1/3 the salary.

You say they both suck at AVG and I can agree with that based upon last seasons stats but the answer is probably "They both suck but Borch is the worse of the two."

This is the crux of the tallest midget debate. There's no sense comparing a guy who posted a .218 AVE in about 200 ABs to a guy with a .191 career AVE. At this point, I think it's safe to say that "they both suck" in this respect.
:D:

Chicken Dinner
11-28-2005, 07:00 PM
Looks like Thome took Borchard's number, so I guess that says something about his future with the Sox.

Banix12
11-28-2005, 07:09 PM
It doesn't, but it's certainly not worth $1 mil., when you can easily replace him with a faster, more powerful, and better defensive replacement for 1/3 the salary.



This is the crux of the tallest midget debate. There's no sense comparing a guy who posted a .218 AVE in about 200 ABs to a guy with a .191 career AVE. At this point, I think it's safe to say that "they both suck" in this respect.
:D:

But it's more the matter that Timo batting .218 is a down year for him when you compare it to previous seasons. He has shown in the majors he can actually hit better than that. For Borchard batting .218 would be a huge step up, that's around a .030 bump over his career average. Saying they both suck pretty much sets them near equal but the truth is Borchard is worse than Timo in that respect.

It is a dumb debate anyway because I am positive Timo will not return and Ross Gload will be a starting OF somewhere in baseball before Joe Borchard makes the White Sox as a 4th OF.