PDA

View Full Version : Am I the only one who hates this trade?


HawkISox
11-24-2005, 01:17 PM
Its a trade for trades sake...If they ever get 200 AB out of the guy in a season, we will be lucky, plus he is about the WORST contact hitter in all MLB, a real strikeout machine.

Talk about raining on my good feelings before it even gets to X-mas!

RichH55
11-24-2005, 01:21 PM
Its a trade for trades sake...If they ever get 200 AB out of the guy in a season, we will be lucky, plus he is about the WORST contact hitter in all MLB, a real strikeout machine.

Talk about raining on my good feelings before it even gets to X-mas!

The main negative is that it is probably the last nail in the coffin for the idea of Keeping Big Frank around

SoxFan76
11-24-2005, 01:21 PM
Worst contact hitter? Isn't his career average around .280? And also, if I'm not mistaken, his only injury shortened season was 2005.

Essentially we're replacing Rowand with Anderson, and Everett with Thome. How is this trade bad?

HawkISox
11-24-2005, 01:24 PM
Who the hell is Anderson anyway? Does he even have 100 Major League AB's.?

For those who think its just an easy replacement and Anderson is a can't lose prospect, two words:

Scott Ruffcorn.

I will bet almost anyone that Thome will not produce Carl's 2005 numbers in 2006.

If Thome gets 500 ABS, it will be with 175 K's.

Fake Chet Lemon
11-24-2005, 01:25 PM
Its a trade for trades sake...If they ever get 200 AB out of the guy in a season, we will be lucky,


Outside of last year he averages OVER 500 ABs a year!

HawkISox
11-24-2005, 01:27 PM
He is over 35 chief! You are not getting the 28 yo Thome!

Man, what a bummer on Thanksgiving Day. I can only imagine how Rowand must feel. Nice timing Kenny, couldn't wait until Monday, could you? I certainly lost some respect for him as a man after basically shipping a guy out on Thanksgiving Eve.

DumpJerry
11-24-2005, 01:29 PM
It's always great to see dark clouds never go away.

richb2
11-24-2005, 01:35 PM
was a very good trade-this needs more offense and a single hitter in pierre. Thome is not injury plaqued-was only hurt last year. The law of averages will catch up with a team -you can only win so many 1 run games ,I don't care who the team is. Having konerko and thome hit back to back and keeping the starting pitchers intact along with keeping mccarthy was a brilliant move. This team has the potental to maybe even be better that last years team-but they would have to win the world series again

PaulDrake
11-24-2005, 01:35 PM
Its a trade for trades sake...If they ever get 200 AB out of the guy in a season, we will be lucky, plus he is about the WORST contact hitter in all MLB, a real strikeout machine.

Talk about raining on my good feelings before it even gets to X-mas! I don't like it either but give our GM some slack. He just put together a World Series Champion. I don't think he's done wheeling and dealing. Wait until it all shakes out. I'm concerned that Rowand is on the cusp on real stardom, and not convinced Thome is healed. Still, Kenny has earned some trust. I'm anxious to see what else happens in the off season. Have a little faith that it will all turn out right.

Fake Chet Lemon
11-24-2005, 01:36 PM
I think people are having a hard time realizing we no longer have to ponder the long distant future. We are GOING FOR IT. Who cares if Rowand is 29 and Thome is 35 if we win this World Series THIS YEAR! Everyone please lose that loser's, rebuilding type mentality. Kenny has to do whatever he can to win this year's World Series. We'll worry about 2007 late next year. Can Rowand carry a team on his back to the World Series in 2006? No. Can Thome? Yes, it's possible. Great trade.

tstrike2000
11-24-2005, 01:37 PM
Its a trade for trades sake...If they ever get 200 AB out of the guy in a season, we will be lucky, plus he is about the WORST contact hitter in all MLB, a real strikeout machine.

Talk about raining on my good feelings before it even gets to X-mas!

Hmm, he's only had one injury where he had to miss as much time as he did in '05 and you're saying we'll be lucky to get 200 AB's out of him? :?: He had surgery and is rehabbing from his surgery and just passed his physical for this trade. I'd say that's a good sign. Plus WORST contact hitter? Hmm, .280 career average, that's CAREER, not one year = equals good contact hitter to go with 40+ bombs a year. A strikeout machine? Well, that may be true, but he also averages over a 100 BB's a year which is why his career, again CAREER OBP is .408. I liked Rowand because he plays hard and is a good guy, but he's the most replaceable out of our position players. Thumbs up for me on this trade! Besides, if Thome still has to rehab going into spring training, Trainer Herm is one of the best in the biz.

HawkISox
11-24-2005, 01:38 PM
Maybe Mike Schmidt will play for the Sox too!!

He could carry us...He has about as much chance as Thome does of carrying anyone

ElevenUp
11-24-2005, 01:41 PM
I may not like letting Rowand go, but I think after last year KW deserves a little faith from Sox fans. I would seriously doubt that KW would have made this trade if Thome's health was in any question. We'll have to wait until April to see how this pans out. Hopefully this is a move that works out for both teams ala Lee/Podsednik.

PS. Bye Bye HawkISox

Chrisaway
11-24-2005, 01:44 PM
I like Jim Thome in a sox uni. I wanna see what BA can do in CF. But Im sad to see Rowand go and possibly Frank. It kinda evens things out. Ill be more upset if we dont make the playoffs next year. But for now, welcome home Jim.

OzzieBall2005
11-24-2005, 01:45 PM
Who the hell is Anderson anyway?

Is that a real question???? If you don't know Brian Anderson, you do not follow the Sox very well.

downstairs
11-24-2005, 01:48 PM
Who the hell is Anderson anyway?

Who the heck is Rowand anyway?

Second coming of Willie Mays?

Sheeesh... we win the World Series and we're instantly over-rating our own players.

Rowand was good, not great. Anderson can easily be good.

MadetoOrta
11-24-2005, 01:51 PM
Who the hell is Anderson anyway? Does he even have 100 Major League AB's.?

For those who think its just an easy replacement and Anderson is a can't lose prospect, two words:

Scott Ruffcorn.

I will bet almost anyone that Thome will not produce Carl's 2005 numbers in 2006.

If Thome gets 500 ABS, it will be with 175 K's.

Who's Brian Anderson? According to Baseball America, the #1 prospect in the White Sox minor league system [ahead of Sweeney, Young and Brandon McCarthy], a #1 pick after playing college baseball for Arizona, 23 years old, excelled at EVERY LEVEL of baseball he's ever played, a superior defensive CF'er than A-Ro.... in other words, potentially a superstar. At worst, he's Rowand. Were you part of that group crying when the Sox brought up the "unproven" Magglio Ordonez and played him over Jeff Abbot? Get a grip. We won the World Series and this gives us a chance to win it again. Re Thome: read some of the things he's said today about being thrilled to be on the Sox, that anyone who thinks he's on roids oughta look at the size of his siblings and how physically he has never felt this good. He's a masher. 35 years old? Heck, Julio Franco's still hitting at 42. Quit :whiner:

Paulwny
11-24-2005, 01:57 PM
Who the heck is Rowand anyway?

Second coming of Willie Mays?

Sheeesh... we win the World Series and we're instantly over-rating our own players.

Rowand was good, not great. Anderson can easily be good.


Amen brother,
Everyone get over it. It's not the first time the sox lost/traded a fan favorite;
Fox, Aparicio, Pierce, Baines, Ventura, etc, etc . All were much better playes than Rowand and were either traded or left as FA's.
I highly doubt we'll ever see Rowand's number retired by the sox.

seanpmurphy
11-24-2005, 02:11 PM
:threadsucks

If you're going to state your opinion, at least do some homework first and don't use such a ridiculous tone. Oh wait, he's already banned. :redface:

RichH55
11-24-2005, 02:17 PM
Who the hell is Anderson anyway? Does he even have 100 Major League AB's.?

For those who think its just an easy replacement and Anderson is a can't lose prospect, two words:

Scott Ruffcorn.

I will bet almost anyone that Thome will not produce Carl's 2005 numbers in 2006.

If Thome gets 500 ABS, it will be with 175 K's.

Pitching Prospects and Hitting Prospects are different breeds

MadetoOrta
11-24-2005, 02:18 PM
:threadsucks

If you're going to state your opinion, at least do some homework first and don't use such a ridiculous tone. Oh wait, he's already banned. :redface:

Just another thing to be thankful for.

Randar68
11-24-2005, 02:18 PM
Its a trade for trades sake...If they ever get 200 AB out of the guy in a season, we will be lucky, plus he is about the WORST contact hitter in all MLB, a real strikeout machine.

Talk about raining on my good feelings before it even gets to X-mas!

Yes, you are not paying attention. Thome averaged 147 games/season over the ten years prior to tearing a limagent in his elbow, that makes him injury prone?

:bong:

Bro, Thome is a better hitter than Konerko, takes 100+ walks per year, will hit 40-45 HR's if healthy, and drive in 120 runs. Plus we're paying him ~7 million a year all for a CF'er we were going to replace anyway and 2 decent prospects.

A bad trade? This is what happens when peope get emotionally attached to players and not winning. When was the last time we had a lefty power bat in the middle of the order????

CluelessJoe1919
11-24-2005, 02:22 PM
There are risks in every deal, but this one seems to be one worth taking. Getting Thome at $7 mil per year is not outrageous and the Sox could recover should he not be able to play...
Rowand, whom I agree with Jay Mariotti is a "glorified fourth outfielder," might have had a rough time getting back into the starting lineup with Anderson, Borchard and Jerry Owens fighting for his job...
The real risk, as Phil Rogers notes, was giving up the two young lefties who are considered top prospects. Lefties don't grow on trees...
But, hey, Thome is a great clubhouse guy and is an insurance policy in case Konerko goes elsewhere. Don't forget, he hit 42 homers two seasons ago.

Taliesinrk
11-24-2005, 02:37 PM
... He's a masher. 35 years old? Heck, Julio Franco's still hitting at 42. Quit :whiner:

42??? I thought he was like 47?

Frankfan4life
11-24-2005, 02:43 PM
Who the hell is Anderson anyway? Does he even have 100 Major League AB's.?

For those who think its just an easy replacement and Anderson is a can't lose prospect, two words:

Scott Ruffcorn.

I will bet almost anyone that Thome will not produce Carl's 2005 numbers in 2006.

If Thome gets 500 ABS, it will be with 175 K's.Would the Phils have made an Anderson for Thome trade? They may have wanted him and the Sox gave them Aaron and two prospects instead. Maybe we could have given the Phils Anderson and only one prospect. Obviously, the Sox believe that Anderson is their future.

Yes, a lot of us are thinking with our hearts. What's wrong with that? As a fan, baseball is a sport to me first not just a business. Rowand is a proven player, a great clubhouse guy who was great with the fans, he loved playing here, and we won it all with him on our team. I hate losing a player like that. Anderson had better be GOOD!

Randar68
11-24-2005, 02:46 PM
I hate losing a player like that. Anderson had better be GOOD!

So if Thome is producing in the #3 spot but Anderson struggles at the plate for a month or 2 in the #8/9 hole, you'll be missing Aaron Rowand's #7 hitter abilities?

Come on already.

Palehose13
11-24-2005, 02:54 PM
I absolutely love Aaron Rowand and I am upset that he is no longer with the Sox. That being said, I think it is a good trade.

dlee120
11-24-2005, 04:26 PM
He is over 35 chief! You are not getting the 28 yo Thome!

Man, what a bummer on Thanksgiving Day. I can only imagine how Rowand must feel. Nice timing Kenny, couldn't wait until Monday, could you? I certainly lost some respect for him as a man after basically shipping a guy out on Thanksgiving Eve.

Yeah, KW really should work around the holidays better....maybe the winter meetings should be moved from December (Christmas) as well. C'mon, you make deals when they are available to you, not at player's convienience.

TRL
11-24-2005, 04:45 PM
I'm not sure yet what to think of this trade. Getting a big left handed bat in the lineup is huge, but I think we will miss Rowand's defense. I can't help but think this trade is taking us back to the teams we had 2000 to 2004 that hit a ton, but couldn't win. This trade seems to go against the whole philosophy that we put in place to win in 2005. I just hope that Anderson doesn't end up with the same "high ceiling" that Borchard had.

soxjim
11-24-2005, 04:57 PM
We will have to wait and see if the trade works out. I have trust that Kenny has something else in the works. The draw back is Aaron was my wife's favorite player and I have had to listen to it for a day now. Good luck Aaron we will miss you.

IronFisk
11-24-2005, 05:54 PM
Maybe Mike Schmidt will play for the Sox too!!

He could carry us...He has about as much chance as Thome does of carrying anyone

That has to be the most moronic statement I've ever read on this site. And that's saying a lot!

Good riddence! Great trade! :supernana:

fquaye149
11-24-2005, 05:58 PM
I'm not sure yet what to think of this trade. Getting a big left handed bat in the lineup is huge, but I think we will miss Rowand's defense. I can't help but think this trade is taking us back to the teams we had 2000 to 2004 that hit a ton, but couldn't win. This trade seems to go against the whole philosophy that we put in place to win in 2005. I just hope that Anderson doesn't end up with the same "high ceiling" that Borchard had.

Here's the thing: We're not giving up ANY defense unless Pierre comes in, in which case we're certainly going to be a better run manufacturing team...

The fact is:

1.) Anderson is a better defensive CF than Aaron
2.) Rowand wasn't particularly good at manufacturing runs (could not bunt)

I think if anything this moves us AWAY from 2000-2004 when we had power hitters with low OBPs (i.e. replacing Everett with Thome).

This is what it is thus far: Anderson replaces Rowand, Thome replaces Everett. All that means is that we have probably a downgrade OFFENSIVELY in the CF spot and a huge upgrade offensively in the DH spot. It certainly doesn't signal a return to station-to-station offense only ball like from 2000-2004

PAPChiSox729
11-24-2005, 05:59 PM
Well I have gotten over the fact that Frank's days in a Sox uni are pretty much over. I like this trade a lot. But I want to ask why do so many of you think Rowand's D is going to be easily matched by Anderson? I don't consider myself a good scout at all. But was Rowand really that poor or is Anderson that good? Thanks in advance.

DSpivack
11-24-2005, 06:15 PM
Well I have gotten over the fact that Frank's days in a Sox uni are pretty much over. I like this trade a lot. But I want to ask why do so many of you think Rowand's D is going to be easily matched by Anderson? I don't consider myself a good scout at all. But was Rowand really that poor or is Anderson that good? Thanks in advance.

Rowand would make some great plays, but he would not always take the best route on a ball and did not have a great arm. Anderson could be better.

MarySwiss
11-24-2005, 06:15 PM
There are risks in every deal, but this one seems to be one worth taking. Getting Thome at $7 mil per year is not outrageous and the Sox could recover should he not be able to play...
Rowand, whom I agree with Jay Mariotti is a "glorified fourth outfielder," might have had a rough time getting back into the starting lineup with Anderson, Borchard and Jerry Owens fighting for his job...
The real risk, as Phil Rogers notes, was giving up the two young lefties who are considered top prospects. Lefties don't grow on trees...
But, hey, Thome is a great clubhouse guy and is an insurance policy in case Konerko goes elsewhere. Don't forget, he hit 42 homers two seasons ago.

When I first heard about this deal, I absolutely hated it. Largely because Thome always has been a Sox killer...not to mention his deplorable Cub-fan background.

Then again, I absolutely hated AJP--when he was a Twinkie. And, much as I hate to offer props to Jim Rome, when AJ went to San Fran and I heard him on Rome's radio show a couple of times, he struck me as a straight-up guy, one who would fit the Sox mold. So I was delighted when we signed him. (And asking him what it felt like to step on Aaron Boone remains the dream of my life!)

So UPON FURTHER REVIEW (sorry, watching football), I think we need to see what happens next. It seems as though he will be a good fit.

DaleJRFan
11-24-2005, 06:19 PM
I'm with Randar on this one, as much as I loved Rowand, they were going to get rid of him to make room for Sweeney/Owens/Young/Anderson anyway... why not fill a hole while his value was high??? And they did just that, a lefthanded power bat for the middle of the order.

Dora
11-24-2005, 07:04 PM
Hi. I'm new here. One of your number, who I know from another forum, told me about this site, so I came here looking for a reaction to the Rowand trade.

Honestly, I follow sports on a game by game basis, and don't usually think about stats, trades and such, but my gut reaction to the news of the trade was confusion mixed with a punch in the gut. From the sound of Rowand's reaction, it sounds like it felt that way to him too, like it was out of the blue.

The reaction here seems to be mixed. Maybe it's a "wait and see" situation. So, I'm wondering are such trades so sudden, and (as common sense tells me) why mess with a winning team? Could these new people really improve on what we already have?

Also, you all seem to be putting your trust in Kenny. I can understand that, maybe because he put this team together in the first place, but I've sensed that the players, and Ozzie don't like him at all. Am I the only one here that is left with the impression that what respect they give him is due to his position as GM and nothing more?

Thanks,
Dora

Dick Allen
11-24-2005, 07:06 PM
I absolutely love Aaron Rowand and I am upset that he is no longer with the Sox. That being said, I think it is a good trade.Pretty much sums up my feelings, and I think, a lot of others here.

Palehose13
11-24-2005, 07:32 PM
Hi. I'm new here. One of your number, who I know from another forum, told me about this site, so I came here looking for a reaction to the Rowand trade.

Honestly, I follow sports on a game by game basis, and don't usually think about stats, trades and such, but my gut reaction to the news of the trade was confusion mixed with a punch in the gut. From the sound of Rowand's reaction, it sounds like it felt that way to him too, like it was out of the blue.

First, welcome.
Second, It was well known that Rowand was on the block. He knew it when he was here for the DVD release party. I don't think this was out of the blue.


The reaction here seems to be mixed. Maybe it's a "wait and see" situation. So, I'm wondering are such trades so sudden, and (as common sense tells me) why mess with a winning team? Could these new people really improve on what we already have?

If you want to win again, you can't sit still. From what I've heard, Anderson is ready and if he isn't, I think Kenny may be looking for another CFer. We don't have Carl Everett anymore. If the Sox resign Konerko, Thome at DH is a huge upgrade over Carl. If we don't resign Konerko, Thome plays first base and we won't miss Konerko much (if at all).

Also, you all seem to be putting your trust in Kenny. I can understand that, maybe because he put this team together in the first place, but I've sensed that the players, and Ozzie don't like him at all. Am I the only one here that is left with the impression that what respect they give him is due to his position as GM and nothing more?

Thanks,
Dora

I have never heard that the players or Ozzie don't like Kenny Williams. From my understanding, KW goes out the players and coaches more than other GM's do. Also, Kenny and Ozzie have a friendship that goes back to their playing days. Ozzie was the one that told KW the news that he had been traded(to Detroit?)...and Ozzie was crying about it.

TornLabrum
11-24-2005, 07:33 PM
Hi. I'm new here. One of your number, who I know from another forum, told me about this site, so I came here looking for a reaction to the Rowand trade.

Honestly, I follow sports on a game by game basis, and don't usually think about stats, trades and such, but my gut reaction to the news of the trade was confusion mixed with a punch in the gut. From the sound of Rowand's reaction, it sounds like it felt that way to him too, like it was out of the blue.

The reaction here seems to be mixed. Maybe it's a "wait and see" situation. So, I'm wondering are such trades so sudden, and (as common sense tells me) why mess with a winning team? Could these new people really improve on what we already have?

Also, you all seem to be putting your trust in Kenny. I can understand that, maybe because he put this team together in the first place, but I've sensed that the players, and Ozzie don't like him at all. Am I the only one here that is left with the impression that what respect they give him is due to his position as GM and nothing more?

Thanks,
Dora

I can answer one question. You mess with a winning team because usually the teams that stand pat end up not repeating.

As far as your sense of what the players and Ozzie think about Kenny, I have just the opposite feeling. So I guess one of us is wrong.

My sense of the trade is that we're weaker up the middle right now with Anderson, than with Rowand, but that's only because of Anderson's lack of major league experience. If he hits in the .170s and fields .950 the trade is a bust, no matter what Thome does. It also bothers me that Thome is 35 years old and coming off an injury.

On the other hand, Williams has a pretty good track record lately on this sort of deal. So I'm taking a wait and see attitude.

valposoxfan
11-24-2005, 07:35 PM
I've never seen so many people enraged over trading a guy who hit .270, knocked in only 67 RBI's and only hit 13 HR's after playing just about every day of the season. Get over the fact that he was a good guy and realize that this was an opportunity that probably had to be taken advantage of, or KW would have been uncomfortable with the status of the offense. The whole "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality is completely wrong, and the other teams will catch on to the Sox, and if you don't remember, just about did at the end of this season. It's a good move that was necessary for more than one reason. If it's a flop, at least KW put himself in a good position personnel and money wise.

Palehose13
11-24-2005, 07:42 PM
I've never seen so many people enraged over trading a guy who hit .270, knocked in only 67 RBI's and only hit 13 HR's after playing just about every day of the season. Get over the fact that he was a good guy and realize that this was an opportunity that probably had to be taken advantage of, or KW would have been uncomfortable with the status of the offense. The whole "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality is completely wrong, and the other teams will catch on to the Sox, and if you don't remember, just about did at the end of this season. It's a good move that was necessary for more than one reason. If it's a flop, at least KW put himself in a good position personnel and money wise.

I don't see too many people enraged, just sad to see Aaron go. You obviously have never met the guy. He was a class act. What I have been reading is that most people think that it was a good trade, but they'll miss Aaron. I don't think that's too hard to understand. I already know that I'll be at Miller Park May 16-18 to cheer on Aaron and the Phillies.

MarySwiss
11-24-2005, 07:47 PM
I've never seen so many people enraged over trading a guy who hit .270, knocked in only 67 RBI's and only hit 13 HR's after playing just about every day of the season. Get over the fact that he was a good guy and realize that this was an opportunity that probably had to be taken advantage of, or KW would have been uncomfortable with the status of the offense. The whole "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality is completely wrong, and the other teams will catch on to the Sox, and if you don't remember, just about did at the end of this season. It's a good move that was necessary for more than one reason. If it's a flop, at least KW put himself in a good position personnel and money wise.

Well, that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. However, I don't think most of us are "enraged" over the trade; we're just engaging in a healthy debate and raising salient points, e.g., Thome's age, his overall health, the impact this trade will have on the team chemistry, who plays where, etc.

And I disagree with your statement that "other teams will catch on to the Sox...and just about did" at the end of the season. What actually happened was that one team--Cleveland--played out of its mind in the second half. And came up short. And were swept by the Sox in the final series.

I am cautiously optimistic about the Thome acquisition. But I have faith in Kenny. And time will tell.

Meanwhile, Aaron, all the best!

Palehose13
11-24-2005, 07:51 PM
Jerry, where's our winner and first class organization?

Psst...might want to change that sig, dude. :cool:

CHEESESOXER
11-24-2005, 08:21 PM
Oh, alright!!

I have to be as humble as I can.
Everyone of you have acknowledged my extremely superior knowledge and acumen in all things White Sox baseball as well as everything else.

Since you all have been pestering me for my valued opinion about this trade, after much deep thought and retrospection, I will give you my opinion.

I have no clue how it's gonna work out so, we'll just have to be true and loyal to the Sox and wait to see how it works out next season.

WE WILL GET RINGS IN APRIL!!

As for Big Frank, it would hurt me deeply to see him go as, I have respected him for much more than his on the field ability.
He has always been Mr Clean in all respects~no cork, no roids, no DUIs, etc.
He's been a good man all the way.
I'd sure like to see him finish it with us if possible.

OK, I've done my best to bring my infinite brain power to you all.
I'm going back to the couch now till spring.:bart

Hey, I forgot to ask, what are we gonna do with Carl's dinosaurs?:D:

seanpmurphy
11-24-2005, 09:16 PM
Yeah, KW really should work around the holidays better....maybe the winter meetings should be moved from December (Christmas) as well. C'mon, you make deals when they are available to you, not at player's convienience.

I heard KW is waiting for Cashimir Pulaski Day to trade AJ Pierzynski! :rolleyes:

getonbckthr
11-24-2005, 09:25 PM
I'm not sure yet what to think of this trade. Getting a big left handed bat in the lineup is huge, but I think we will miss Rowand's defense. I can't help but think this trade is taking us back to the teams we had 2000 to 2004 that hit a ton, but couldn't win. This trade seems to go against the whole philosophy that we put in place to win in 2005. I just hope that Anderson doesn't end up with the same "high ceiling" that Borchard had.
Thome will be our DH. He will not hurt us in the field. As far as speed and small ball, how many bases did Frank and Carl steal? How many sacrifice bunts?

TaylorStSox
11-24-2005, 09:50 PM
I need to vent for a second... When did Aaron Rowand become a hall of famer? He wasn't even an all star. He was a nice player who played the game the right way. However, he didn't hit for authority. He can't bunt. He doesn't really run the bases well. He K'd FAR too often. He hit into too many DP's. He was probably the weakest link in our line up.

I liked his attitude. I like the way he played CF, though he was no GG. I liked that he was an organizational player. Based on the depth of our team, he was the easiest player to replace. At worst, Brian Anderson's going to go .250/12/60. That's not too far off of Rowand's numbers.

BTW... we added JIM FREAKIN THOME!!! For all you that complain about his age or injury, the last time Thome had a good year was the last time Rowand had a good year.

RowanDye
11-24-2005, 10:19 PM
I need to vent for a second... When did Aaron Rowand become a hall of famer? He wasn't even an all star. He was a nice player who played the game the right way. However, he didn't hit for authority. He can't bunt. He doesn't really run the bases well. He K'd FAR too often. He hit into too many DP's. He was probably the weakest link in our line up.

I liked his attitude. I like the way he played CF, though he was no GG. I liked that he was an organizational player. Based on the depth of our team, he was the easiest player to replace. At worst, Brian Anderson's going to go .250/12/60. That's not too far off of Rowand's numbers.

BTW... we added JIM FREAKIN THOME!!! For all you that complain about his age or injury, the last time Thome had a good year was the last time Rowand had a good year.


Rowand was one of my favorite players and I wish him nothing but good in his career (expect when the Phillies play the White Sox of course). I believe he will probably have a better year at the plate in 2006, tending towards his mean. But one thing I haven't seen talked about much was Rowand's drop in power numbers -- this had to concern KW. Granted Rowand didn't get very many balls off of the ground (~50% grounders), but it seemed like some of his homers from 2004 were doubles in 2005. I'm not implying anything about Rowand, but again this must have concerned KW and Ozzie. One possibility is that Rowand was just swinging at bad pitches. He had one of the worst BB/K ratios in the majors, taking only 0.28 balls per strike!! BTW -- guess who finished last?? that's right....Ivan Rodriguez :dunno: Just something to think about.

Bobbo35
11-24-2005, 10:22 PM
It's always great to see dark clouds never go away.


there are always some in a group

wdelaney72
11-24-2005, 10:27 PM
I absolutely love Aaron Rowand and I am upset that he is no longer with the Sox. That being said, I think it is a good trade.

This sums it up exactly. I couldn't agree more.

Bobbo35
11-24-2005, 10:27 PM
Is that a real question???? If you don't know Brian Anderson, you do not follow the Sox very well.


Ya, I will put my money on Anderson being a better overall player in a year or two than Rowand has become. Think about three/four years ago with Rowand and compare him to Anderson.

This is a great trade!

MadetoOrta
11-24-2005, 10:31 PM
To the jerk who implied Ozzie can't stand KW, why were they together with their wives at the Tavern On Rush last week having a great time together for about 4 hours? KW and Ozzie are attached at the hip. If they weren't Ozzie wouldn't have gotten past the first minute of his interview for the managerial position. To those who haven't read about it, KW started the interview with the implication that Cito Gaston was his man and Ozzie had an uphill battle. This prompted Ozzie to essentially tell KW to go ^%$* off and some other expletive deleteds. Hours later, KW knew Ozzie was the guy for the job.

You dark clouds should just go buy the DVD I just watched and play it over and over until the playoffs next October. We'll call you when it's time. Mopes.

Dillinger25
11-24-2005, 10:59 PM
This one goes out to all the :whiner: on this thread with short postseason memories. Whatever you think about the deal the White Sox philosophy now is the middle 90's Atlanta Braves, stud pitching with good D and the batting lineup is full of interchangable parts. Mainly timely hitters. 2005 Sox offense was not DOMINANT.
They did give up two good pitching prospects in the Thome deal but so were Kip Wells and Josh Fogg labeled can't miss guys when they were traded. Now they enjoy baseball Siberia in Pittsburgh (not talking about who they got back - Ritchie you suck). If the pitching on the big ball club is as good as they were last year this team will compete in October again. Momma Cleo see the future.

:cleo

Stroker Ace
11-24-2005, 11:22 PM
As I've posted in another thread, this is going to blow up in our faces. Thome is on the decline and Aaron is still getting better. We shouldn't be looking at 1-2 year quick fixes, but locking up players that will help us for the long haul.

RowanDye
11-24-2005, 11:48 PM
As I've posted in another thread, this is going to blow up in our faces. Thome is on the decline and Aaron is still getting better. We shouldn't be looking at 1-2 year quick fixes, but locking up players that will help us for the long haul.

Did you read my post? I like Aaron, but what is your basis for "Aaron is still getting better". Let me highlight one point from my earlier post "He had one of the worst BB/K ratios in the majors, taking only 0.28 balls per strike!!" If Rowand doesn't a) take more balls or b) make more contact he will most certainly not be "still getting better".

One thing about Thome, although it may be a biased source, Phillies manger Charlie Manuel had this to say: "I hate to see him leave, but I know he's going to bounce back and have a hell of a big year in Chicago.''

ajismyhero
11-25-2005, 12:23 AM
I'm agreeing with the masses in that Rowand was a good player, not a great player, but a really great guy. If Thome really is in the "best shape of his career" then this could definitely be a way to get some power where we need it (hopefully right before or after Paulie in the lineup).

That said, does everyone think this means that Kenny's doing his best to get Paulie back? Also, what about the pitching prospects we had to give up with Rowand? What's the consensus on that?

(New to the site, excited to get opinions from people who are fans...)

SoxSpeed22
11-25-2005, 12:50 AM
I'm agreeing with the masses in that Rowand was a good player, not a great player, but a really great guy. If Thome really is in the "best shape of his career" then this could definitely be a way to get some power where we need it (hopefully right before or after Paulie in the lineup).

That said, does everyone think this means that Kenny's doing his best to get Paulie back? Also, what about the pitching prospects we had to give up with Rowand? What's the consensus on that?

(New to the site, excited to get opinions from people who are fans...)First, :welcome:.
Second, We just don't know what Anderson's gonna bring to this team, which is why some of us were afraid of trading Rowand. Unfortunately, trusting liked players too much often gets you in the top 10 in the draft. Also, every athlete says they're "in the best shape of their career" after a downer year. Thome is gonna have to prove it. There is a thread in Sox Clubhouse that indicated that this might save the Sox some money in order to resign Konerko.
Daniel Haigwood and Gio Gonzalez were two high prospects in our system. They're also both lefties. It's rumored that Gio will be on the Phillies roster to start the year. Haigwood might start in AAA for them.

EDIT: Here's the thread. Link (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=62665)

Nellie_Fox
11-25-2005, 01:29 AM
42??? I thought he was like 47?Yes, he is. Birthday August 23, 1958.

CluelessJoe1919
11-25-2005, 01:31 AM
Rowand would make some great plays, but he would not always take the best route on a ball and did not have a great arm. Anderson could be better.
IMO, Rowand made the best of his ability. I totally agree with your assessment of his defensive abilities. He didn't seem to get a good jump on a lot of fly balls and his speed was about average. Those two great catches he made in New York may have looked harder than they actually were. Andruw Jones might have been under those and put them in his back pocket.

JB98
11-25-2005, 01:41 AM
As I've posted in another thread, this is going to blow up in our faces. Thome is on the decline and Aaron is still getting better. We shouldn't be looking at 1-2 year quick fixes, but locking up players that will help us for the long haul.

Aaron's numbers were down across the board in 2005. Prove to me that he's "still getting better," and I'll agree with you.

Thome had never had a poor season until last year, when he was injured. Now, all of a sudden, he's "on the decline." If Thome is on the decline, then so is Frank Thomas. Describing Thomas as "on the decline" would be considered blasphemy on this board.

We have several players locked up that will help us for the long haul. Maybe we are looking for a quick fix at the DH spot. Sometimes, that is what is necessary. Crazy Carl was a quick fix too. He was kept around as insurance for Frank. But let's not pretend that the quick fix has become an organizational philosophy or something. The occasional quick fix does not mean we can't win, as proven in 2005.

Honestly, I think most of the people who are against this trade are just being emotional about a fan favorite being dealt. Aaron is a great guy, but as a player, he can be replaced. As I stated in the A-Row appreciation thread, Aaron the person will be missed more than Aaron the player.

Soxfest
11-25-2005, 08:39 AM
AR is a good defensive OF and nothing more ......Thome one of few guys I watch hit every time up.

MsSoxVixen22
11-25-2005, 09:30 AM
I don't see too many people enraged, just sad to see Aaron go. You obviously have never met the guy. He was a class act. What I have been reading is that most people think that it was a good trade, but they'll miss Aaron. I don't think that's too hard to understand. I already know that I'll be at Miller Park May 16-18 to cheer on Aaron and the Phillies.


I agree with you Palehose13. I'm not mad-just very sad. Aaron has always been one of my favorite players. I had tears in my eyes last nite while I was watching the Sox movie on Comcast. If that sounds pathetic-so be it. I don't know anything about Thome and I hope he produces the way alot of you are saying he will. I hope that Anderson (if he does end up in CF) can fill Aaron's shoes. IMHO, he has some big ones to fill. I don't know Aaron personally (but I feel like I do sometimes just hearing/watching his interviews) but he will most definately be missed. The Phillies are damn lucky to have a great guy like Aaron. I hope Aaron has a great yr in Philly. I think I'm going to ask for a Rowand jersey for Christmas.

boiker
11-25-2005, 10:16 AM
It's a good trade. We've got prospects that will play at least decent center (maybe left?, Pods was a CF in MIL) for the upcoming year. Thome adds a dangerous presence at the DH spot. If Konerko is resigned, I have visions of the offensive firepower of LH-Ortiz/RH-Rameriz in Chicago. If we make the trade to pickup Pierre, resign Konerko.....I'll be completely satisfied in knowning another WS apperance is due in 2006.

Lillian
11-25-2005, 04:16 PM
There are so many Thome related threads that I couldn't really decide where to post this. Although I am generally please with this trade, I am concerned about Thome's poor history against left handed pitching. Because this is a negative point, it probably belongs in this thread.
If you analyze his career split stats, you will likely not be very impressed with his performance vs. left handers. His B.A. is only .244, and his power numbers are not nearly as good they are against right handers. He has only one homer per every 22 at bats against lefties, versus one homer per every 11 at bats against right handers.
If he needs some time off, as he battles age, and a chronic back spasms, maybe he should be platooned. Too bad we can't afford to keep Frank!! What a platoon that would make!

RowanDye
11-25-2005, 04:26 PM
There are so many Thome related threads that I couldn't really decide where to post this. Although I am generally please with this trade, I am concerned about Thome's poor history against left handed pitching. Because this is a negative point, it probably belongs in this thread.
If you analyze his career split stats, you will likely not be very impressed with his performance vs. left handers. His B.A. is only .244, and his power numbers are not nearly as good they are against right handers. He has only one homer per every 22 at bats against lefties, versus one homer per every 11 at bats against right handers.
If he needs some time off, as he battles age, and a chronic back spasms, maybe he should be platooned. Too bad we can't afford to keep Frank!! What a platoon that would make!

Platoon at the DH spot? Not a good roster situation if you ask me....

jerry myers
11-25-2005, 04:33 PM
good trade, taking over for carl , 40 hr plus 100 rbis get pk back. we can replace rowand, were in good shape, besides the tribe would of grabbed him, puts them in a pinch, all other hitters lots o money. and bad attitudes like manny. trust in kw he has earned it.

SEALgep
11-25-2005, 04:38 PM
He is over 35 chief! You are not getting the 28 yo Thome!

Man, what a bummer on Thanksgiving Day. I can only imagine how Rowand must feel. Nice timing Kenny, couldn't wait until Monday, could you? I certainly lost some respect for him as a man after basically shipping a guy out on Thanksgiving Eve.The World Series didn't do much for you, huh? I love Rowand, but when get an opportunity to improve your club, you don't wait for Thanksgiving to be over.

fquaye149
11-25-2005, 04:39 PM
There are so many Thome related threads that I couldn't really decide where to post this. Although I am generally please with this trade, I am concerned about Thome's poor history against left handed pitching. Because this is a negative point, it probably belongs in this thread.
If you analyze his career split stats, you will likely not be very impressed with his performance vs. left handers. His B.A. is only .244, and his power numbers are not nearly as good they are against right handers. He has only one homer per every 22 at bats against lefties, versus one homer per every 11 at bats against right handers.
If he needs some time off, as he battles age, and a chronic back spasms, maybe he should be platooned. Too bad we can't afford to keep Frank!! What a platoon that would make!

Well, it's not great he can't hit lefties as well, but if he's only hitting .244 against lefties and 1 Hr per 22, that must mean he's absolutely crushing righties... There's a few lefties in the AL Central, but the majority of the time he'll be facing RHP anyway.

Lillian
11-25-2005, 04:44 PM
Platoon at the DH spot? Not a good roster situation if you ask me....

It would only be against left handers, so he wouldn't miss many at bats, and it might help keep his back healthy. It was really a moot point, however, as they can't afford to pay Thomas, if they sign Konerko.

ChiSoxLifer
11-25-2005, 04:45 PM
I'm not sure yet what to think of this trade. Getting a big left handed bat in the lineup is huge, but I think we will miss Rowand's defense. I can't help but think this trade is taking us back to the teams we had 2000 to 2004 that hit a ton, but couldn't win. This trade seems to go against the whole philosophy that we put in place to win in 2005. I just hope that Anderson doesn't end up with the same "high ceiling" that Borchard had.

It's not as if the Sox are throwing Thome out in center field. He's a replacement for Crazy Carl at the DH spot. The teams of 2000 to 2004 didn't have the pitching staff the Sox currently have and the overall team defense is better now. From my understanding, Anderson excelled defensively in the minor leagues. Borchard's reputation was built on his offensive prowess which doesn't always carry over to the majors. Good defense in the minors does not go away in the majors.

jerry myers
11-25-2005, 04:45 PM
just thinking but wouldnt be bad if the tribe or twins picked up frank. man i wish we had a place.

WikdChiSoxFan
11-25-2005, 04:58 PM
I dislike this trade...a lot.


I understand if we're trying to make room for Pierre...but what the heck are we gonna do with Thome...I thought Frank would have been a better option that Thome... Plus Aaron is a leader...the original "grinder".

What the heck are these guys thinking?

And how do we react at Soxfest?

GoSox2K3
11-25-2005, 05:15 PM
I dislike this trade...a lot.
I understand if we're trying to make room for Pierre...but what the heck are we gonna do with Thome... Uh, have him be our DH.

I thought Frank would have been a better option that Thome... So, you think someone who has missed most of the last 2 season due to a recurring foot injury from which it's questionnable that he's recovered is a better option?

Plus Aaron is a leader...the original "grinder". What the heck are these guys thinking? As discussed a hundred time already on this board, Rowand had a great attitude, played hard - but he was expendable if the scouts are right and Brian Anderson is ready for the big leagues.

And how do we react at Soxfest? Seeing as the White Sox won the World Series, I think us fans should go to Soxfest in a very angry and ticked-off mood. I can't wait to heckle KW for the crappy job he's done with this team.

MarySwiss
11-25-2005, 05:28 PM
Platoon at the DH spot? Not a good roster situation if you ask me....

Actually, I've always been kind of surprised that more teams don't platoon at the DH. When you think about it, the DH is really a kind of "get out of jail free" card. After all, what it does is allow someone to bat in place of the pitcher, so the only way it's a bad thing is if you have someone DH who doesn't hit as well as your pitcher.

Sure, it's nice to have a big bat who can DH regularly and spark your offense, but I really like Lillian's suggestion of Frank/Thome platooning at DH, with Paulie playing 1B and Thome spelling Paulie at first, as needed.

Win/win.

Baby Fisk
11-25-2005, 05:29 PM
And how do we react at Soxfest?If I were going, I'd be thrilled at the opportunity to congratulate and thank the people who brought us our World Championship.

Ol' No. 2
11-25-2005, 06:08 PM
Actually, I've always been kind of surprised that more teams don't platoon at the DH. When you think about it, the DH is really a kind of "get out of jail free" card. After all, what it does is allow someone to bat in place of the pitcher, so the only way it's a bad thing is if you have someone DH who doesn't hit as well as your pitcher.

Sure, it's nice to have a big bat who can DH regularly and spark your offense, but I really like Lillian's suggestion of Frank/Thome platooning at DH, with Paulie playing 1B and Thome spelling Paulie at first, as needed.

Win/win.I've been arguing this basic point since before the trade. I'm pretty sure Frank can do more for the team on an occasional basis than the 25th man he replaces. I can see him easily getting 200 PA. It just depends on whether Frank will be content with that role.

kwolf68
11-25-2005, 06:12 PM
No way do you trade what we traded for a platoon DH.

If all goes well, Jim Thome will get 550+ at bats this year. If he does, pencil him in for 45 homers, 120 rbis.

This trade still irks me in some ways, but GETTING THOME is not what bothers me at all. Getting that guy is the only thing that can make the badness of the trade go away.

FarWestChicago
11-25-2005, 06:26 PM
I dislike this trade...a lot.


I understand if we're trying to make room for Pierre...but what the heck are we gonna do with Thome...I thought Frank would have been a better option that Thome... Plus Aaron is a leader...the original "grinder".

What the heck are these guys thinking?

And how do we react at Soxfest?Is this post serious or are you just joking around? :?:

SOX ADDICT '73
11-25-2005, 06:46 PM
Getting that guy is the only thing that can make the badness of the trade go away.
Um, yeah, because giving away Rowand, Gio, and Haigwood for nothing would have been really stupid :?: ?

If getting Thome "makes the badness go away", that would mean you're in favor of the trade, yes?

Palehose13
11-25-2005, 07:46 PM
I've been arguing this basic point since before the trade. I'm pretty sure Frank can do more for the team on an occasional basis than the 25th man he replaces. I can see him easily getting 200 PA. It just depends on whether Frank will be content with that role.

I agree and with Ozuna signing, IMO, one less bench player(Harris, Perez) is needed cause Ozuna can fill in at so many spots if needed.

MarySwiss
11-25-2005, 07:53 PM
I've been arguing this basic point since before the trade. I'm pretty sure Frank can do more for the team on an occasional basis than the 25th man he replaces. I can see him easily getting 200 PA. It just depends on whether Frank will be content with that role.

Ol' No. 2, I totaly agree with you...and not just 'cause you agree with me!

Kenny's doing fine. He got Thome, now keep Paulie, sign Frank to an incentives-laden deal, and we are in great shape.

kwolf68
11-25-2005, 07:54 PM
Um, yeah, because giving away Rowand, Gio, and Haigwood for nothing would have been really stupid :?: ?

If getting Thome "makes the badness go away", that would mean you're in favor of the trade, yes?

Stupid way I said that. What I meant is...I think the trade right here and right now is bad. We gave up TOO MUCH, but ... IF Thome goes off and helps the Sox return to glory then the fact we gave up TOO MUCH to get him will essentially be forgotten.

If Thome is on the downside and is no longer as productive as we all hope, then we start monitoring the progress of the 3 players we gave up for him. Three players, two of which are our VERY BEST two minor league pitching prospects, both lefties.

I guess that's my point. The trade will FOREVER be bad, because I think we gave up too much, BUT...no one will care its a bad trade if Thome gets off and we win again.

Daver
11-25-2005, 08:29 PM
I guess that's my point. The trade will FOREVER be bad, because I think we gave up too much, BUT...no one will care its a bad trade if Thome gets off and we win again.

I will disagree that this was a bad trade, the Sox dealt from a position of strength, to shore up a weakness this team has had for three seasons, a legit lefty bat. Don't bother starting with the minor league pitchers involved, because the major league staff are under contract for another year, three of them for more than that, more than enough time to develop and draft more pitching. As for Aaron Rowand, he may be a fan favorite, but when all is said and done, his season in 2004 was probably his high water mark based on his minor league and major league career averages, and his defense is not hard to replace from within the Sox system.

Taliesinrk
11-25-2005, 08:50 PM
Ol' No. 2, I totaly agree with you...and not just 'cause you agree with me!

Kenny's doing fine. He got Thome, now keep Paulie, sign Frank to an incentives-laden deal, and we are in great shape.


Ok seriously.. noone has answered this question that I've asked numerous times post-Thome news. Multiple people have said Frank'll take an incentive-laded deal now w/ Thome and if we can get Konerko. Why would the incentives matter if he can't reach any of them? He won't be able to reach any of them because 200 PA's just doesn't cut it for a 2-time MVP trying to make several million. Anyone's insight here on whether or not I'm missing something would be greatly appreciated...

TaylorStSox
11-25-2005, 09:12 PM
I've been arguing this basic point since before the trade. I'm pretty sure Frank can do more for the team on an occasional basis than the 25th man he replaces. I can see him easily getting 200 PA. It just depends on whether Frank will be content with that role.

I have a few few problems with that idea. First, Frank deserves to play everyday, or try to prove that he can. There are teams that could use a DH of his calibre. If he can stay healthy, 200 PA's is a joke for a guy like Thomas.

Secondly, I have a problem with carrying 3 DH/1B type of players on 1 team. None of them are good defensively and they can't run. Your 25th man has to be versatile. "Frankly," a UT guy would be much more valuable in that position than a 37 year old slugger.

I love Frank Thomas. He's more valuable to this organization than any other player ever IMO. With that said, he's simply not the player that Thome is and he's RH. Sadly, his days with us are over. That's the reality of winning major league games. There's no room for a sentimental favorite. It's the same for Rowand. We have no room for fan favorite who are average ballplayers when they're clogging the path for better players behind them.

kwolf68
11-25-2005, 09:26 PM
I will disagree that this was a bad trade, the Sox dealt from a position of strength, to shore up a weakness this team has had for three seasons, a legit lefty bat. Don't bother starting with the minor league pitchers involved, because the major league staff are under contract for another year, three of them for more than that, more than enough time to develop and draft more pitching. As for Aaron Rowand, he may be a fan favorite, but when all is said and done, his season in 2004 was probably his high water mark based on his minor league and major league career averages, and his defense is not hard to replace from within the Sox system.

All that you said is correct and I agree with it, BUT it still doesn't change my opinion that the Phillies were not holding the high card here. Very few teams were involved with Philly. Thome was NOT a player that was going to be easy to trade. He only wanted to go to a select few teams, he is expensive, and Philly considers him expendable now.

They should have been begging the White Sox to make a deal, but it appears we came hat in hand offering up not only a solid CF (who yes is someone we can replace) and not ONE terrific young lefty prospect, BUT TWO ... OUR TWO BEST lefty handed prospects in our entire minor league system.

At worst, you make a deal to send away one elite guy, not the best two. Now, there are instances you sell out, you blow the farm system away. That's to get a player clearly in his prime that can help you in more than one way: Thing A-Rod, Pojuls type players.

This is a deal that only makes sense 3 years ago when Thome was in his prime, was proven, and healthy and hadn't just been relegated to a reserve by a younger (better?) player?

I have no issue with Rowan and one of the prospects, but to just roll out both our top 2 guys for a 35 year old player coming off a .200 average and an injury indicating he is reaching the "breaking point" makes no sense to me.

Again, please understand...I like Thome and I think he will pan out. He's a great addition to this team and I'm happy he's a part of our team, but I honestly don't think we needed to give up this much to get him. Now our best prospects are guys who are recovering from arm problems (Honel, Lumsden) or can't throw strikes (Tracey).

Now we move a guy into CF that quite honestly has not been impressive yet. You folks keep telling us to quit worrying about the prospects, because they have proven nothing but then say on the other hand that Anderson is ready to roll, though he too is unproven.

Yes, KW has some mojo working now doubt. I wouldn't be shocked if these two pitchers fall off the face of the earth into obscurity the way Kenny seems to have things work out. I'm not trying to be negative, but I think people who are dancing in the streets over this are as presumptious as those of us who are very concerned about this deal.

Sox35th
11-25-2005, 09:33 PM
How dose it go? "It was the best of times........it was the worst of times"

The Best: 2005 World Champs!!

The Worst: The loss of Rowand, Rooney and next the Big Hurt!!

It guess not all good things will last? But, Going back-to-back will sure make things much better!! Rowand, Rooney and the Big Hurt will be missed.....I wish all the best of luck!!

TaylorStSox
11-25-2005, 09:34 PM
All that you said is correct and I agree with it, BUT it still doesn't change my opinion that the Phillies were not holding the high card here. Very few teams were involved with Philly. Thome was NOT a player that was going to be easy to trade. He only wanted to go to a select few teams, he is expensive, and Philly considers him expendable now.

They should have been begging the White Sox to make a deal, but it appears we came hat in hand offering up not only a solid CF (who yes is someone we can replace) and not ONE terrific young lefty prospect, BUT TWO ... OUR TWO BEST lefty handed prospects in our entire minor league system.

At worst, you make a deal to send away one elite guy, not the best two. Now, there are instances you sell out, you blow the farm system away. That's to get a player clearly in his prime that can help you in more than one way: Thing A-Rod, Pojuls type players.

This is a deal that only makes sense 3 years ago when Thome was in his prime, was proven, and healthy and hadn't just been relegated to a reserve by a younger (better?) player?

I have no issue with Rowan and one of the prospects, but to just roll out both our top 2 guys for a 35 year old player coming off a .200 average and an injury indicating he is reaching the "breaking point" makes no sense to me.

Again, please understand...I like Thome and I think he will pan out. He's a great addition to this team and I'm happy he's a part of our team, but I honestly don't think we needed to give up this much to get him. Now our best prospects are guys who are recovering from arm problems (Honel, Lumsden) or can't throw strikes (Tracey).

Now we move a guy into CF that quite honestly has not been impressive yet. You folks keep telling us to quit worrying about the prospects, because they have proven nothing but then say on the other hand that Anderson is ready to roll, though he too is unproven.

Yes, KW has some mojo working now doubt. I wouldn't be shocked if these two pitchers fall off the face of the earth into obscurity the way Kenny seems to have things work out. I'm not trying to be negative, but I think people who are dancing in the streets over this are as presumptious as those of us who are very concerned about this deal.


Neither of these prospects have played past AA. One was off the map until a break out season. In fact, some publications didn't list Haigwood in their TOP 20 organizational prospect lists. The other is undersized and has shown some durability issues, while in our organization. I love Gio as a prospect. Haigwood had a good year, but he might be a flash in the pan. When you can take two top 10 prospects and a mediocre CF and move them for a future hall of fame LH slugger, you do it!

BTW, Ray Liotta might have something to say about those kids being our top LH prospects.

Daver
11-25-2005, 09:36 PM
All that you said is correct and I agree with it, BUT it still doesn't change my opinion that the Phillies were not holding the high card here. Very few teams were involved with Philly. Thome was NOT a player that was going to be easy to trade. He only wanted to go to a select few teams, he is expensive, and Philly considers him expendable now.

You aren't seeing the whole picture, in order to get Philly to pick up half of Thome's salary, which they did, you have to make it worth their while, and I would rather throw in a top pitching prospect as opposed to an infield prospect like Robert Valido, pitchers are a crapshoot, ten percent of them pan out, while Valido, along with Anderson and Sweeney are much more projectable.

Philly was holding all the crads, it was their player.

TomBradley72
11-25-2005, 09:37 PM
All I care about is 2006...neither of the prospects traded were going to be a factor in next years run for the World Series. I believe Haigwood is a knuckleballer....I refuse to get all wound up about about a minor league knuckle ball pitcher. Gio might turn out to be good....but I think the extra talent thrown in helped with getting the $22M from Philadelphia. Anderson is a little bit of a risk...but not a huge drop off. Our #1 need in the offseason was improving our offense (9th place in the AL in runs scored in 2005....we can't rely on a .650 winning percentage in 1-run games again)...and the only way to really do that with a LH power hitter was this trade. It's a risk and we might have overpaid....but the upside is well worth the gamble.

TaylorStSox
11-25-2005, 09:38 PM
All I care about is 2006...neither of the prospects traded were going to be a factor in next years run for the World Series. I believe Haigwood is a knuckleballer....I refuse to get all wound up about about a minor league knuckle ball pitcher. Gio might turn out to be good....but I think the extra talent thrown in helped with getting the $22M from Philadelphia. Anderson is a little bit of a risk...but not a huge drop off. Our #1 need in the offseason was improving our offense (9th place in the AL in runs scored in 2005....we can't rely on a .650 winning percentage in 1-run games again)...and the only way to really do that with a LH power hitter was this trade. It's a risk and we might have overpaid....but the upside is well worth the gamble.

Haeger is the knuckleballer. Haigwood is the one comparable to MB.

Ol' No. 2
11-25-2005, 10:04 PM
I have a few few problems with that idea. First, Frank deserves to play everyday, or try to prove that he can. There are teams that could use a DH of his calibre. If he can stay healthy, 200 PA's is a joke for a guy like Thomas.

Secondly, I have a problem with carrying 3 DH/1B type of players on 1 team. None of them are good defensively and they can't run. Your 25th man has to be versatile. "Frankly," a UT guy would be much more valuable in that position than a 37 year old slugger.

I love Frank Thomas. He's more valuable to this organization than any other player ever IMO. With that said, he's simply not the player that Thome is and he's RH. Sadly, his days with us are over. That's the reality of winning major league games. There's no room for a sentimental favorite. It's the same for Rowand. We have no room for fan favorite who are average ballplayers when they're clogging the path for better players behind them.I don't think his ankle will take that much more. It's obviously a decision he's going to have to make. But it's not such a dumb idea to try to play 2-3 seasons, getting in 200-300 PA each year instead of trying to get 500 in one year and wind up done for good.

joepoe
11-26-2005, 10:28 PM
Its a trade for trades sake...If they ever get 200 AB out of the guy in a season, we will be lucky, plus he is about the WORST contact hitter in all MLB, a real strikeout machine.
Talk about raining on my good feelings before it even gets to X-mas!

Take a look at Thome's OPS. Rowand cannot carry his jock. THome k's but he also draws walk and hit the living crap out of the ball. The only fear I have is continued injury, but KW, who has earned some slack, says he is okay.

Dora
11-28-2005, 06:57 PM
Thanks to Torn Labrum and Palehose 13 for answering my questions.

My apologies to MadetoOrta for my apparent "jerkiness." I'm afraid that I haven't had the pleasure of seeing Kenny and Ozzie laughing it up together at Tavern on Rush. I've only seen them on television, and in one particular case, while Kenny was talking, most of the players began looking at their shoes, a couple were making faces, and Ozzie looked rather upset, almost angry. THe mood lightened considerably after he was finished speaking.

So, you can see how I would draw the conclusion that they are all best buds.

Perhaps they were all having a bad day. I don't know, that's why I was asking people I thought would know.