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View Full Version : Thome trade repercussions and follow up


vafan
11-24-2005, 12:27 PM
My initial reaction on seeing Thome for Rowand in my morning paper here in N. Va. was oh no. But then I read that the Sox were getting $22 million toward's Thome's contract, and my reaction changed.

Here's what I would do with that $22 million if I were Kenny Williams.

SIGN BRIAN GILES

Face it, Brian Anderson and his 12 K's in 34 ABs is not ready to replace Aaron Rowand in CF. And Chris Young is probably not ready for 2006. Jerry Owens? Intriguing, but you can't count on him being ready either.

The best move for the Sox would be to go after Giles. This would allow us to bring up one of the kids (to replace Timo Perez) and give them some time in the outfield without having to count on them at all during the season if they aren't ready. Podsednik or Giles in CF is a big defensive dropoff from Aaron Rowand, but the offense from Giles should more than counterbalance that. And if one of the kids is ready, then Giles can rotate between all the outfield slots and DH.

Moreover, if you add Giles for about $25 million over 3 years, you could also bring back Frank Thomas with an incentive-laden deal.
This would not hold back any of the outfield kids either, as Dye is only signed for one more year and Giles can slide to RF in 2007.

This would be the Sox lineup (or you could flip Thome and Giles):

Pods - CF/LF
Iguchi - 2B
Giles - CF/LF
Thomas - DH
Thome - 1B
Dye - RF
Crede - 3B (due for a breakout year, Sox need to sign him now for 3 years)
Pierzynski - C
Uribe - SS

Not only would we have the best pitching in the AL, but if this lineup could stay healthy, we'd be able to hit and slug with anyone.

Giles, Thomas, and Thome each are capable of .400 OBP and .500+ slugging. And Giles has as many steals as Rowand has had, so we're not really losing much speed (sure Thomas is slower than Everett). Plus, for the first time in a long time the Sox would have two left handed high OBP, high slugging hitters.
Of course, this would mean letting PK sign elsewhere. But that seems prudent too. For the $13-15 million he's likely to get, you can have both Giles at $8-9 million/year and Thomas at $4-5 million/year. The team would not be as good defensively, but we could always have the infamous LIDP to put in CF and at 1B.

I say, GO FOR IT.

GO SOX!! BACK TO BACK!!!

hose
11-24-2005, 12:46 PM
Brian Giles didn't have the Sox or even the AL as a whole on teams he would except a trade to.

Unless Giles has reconsidered I don't think he is a viable option......of course in the world of fantasy baseball continue on with the trade:rolleyes:

ChiSoxIn06
11-24-2005, 12:47 PM
Not only would we have the best pitching in the AL, but if this lineup could stay healthy, we'd be able to hit and slug with anyone.


Last time i checked the sox were 2nd i believe in HRs in the AL last year so i dont think they had a problem outslugging anyone...thier main problem was hitting with RISP...if they could improve on that area they would be a powerhouse in the AL that would be very tough to contend with.

Joosh
11-24-2005, 01:09 PM
I don't think we'll sign Giles, minly because of our Arbitration eligable players (Garland, AJ, Crede) and the fact that some players will be due raises and we havent even signed Konerko yet.

Fake Chet Lemon
11-24-2005, 01:56 PM
I like the Thome trade a ton, but I don't want to to take my chances on TWO 35 year old guys between him and Giles. Not to mention Frank. That's why Konerko is so important to sign, otherwise we got too old too fast.

JackParkman
11-24-2005, 01:58 PM
My initial reaction on seeing Thome for Rowand in my morning paper here in N. Va. was oh no. But then I read that the Sox were getting $22 million toward's Thome's contract, and my reaction changed.

Here's what I would do with that $22 million if I were Kenny Williams.


The Sox will use that $22 million to pay Thome. It's not as if that's free money for the Sox. They still have to pay Thome $46 million over the next three years. Also, it's my understanding that the money will be paid over the next three seasons, not in one lump sum.

Randar68
11-24-2005, 02:05 PM
The Sox will use that $22 million to pay Thome. It's not as if that's free money for the Sox. They still have to pay Thome $46 million over the next three years. Also, it's my understanding that the money will be paid over the next three seasons, not in one lump sum.

The Phillies are paying part of his contract. The Sox have to pay 21 million over 3 years to Thome. You do the math on the average.

Thome does have that $13 million dollar option that would automatically vest given a certain number of AB's, although I can' recall the exact trigger numbers.

The Sox acquired a better hitter than Konerko for 7 million a year, Rowand, who was going to be replaced either way, and 2 AA or lower pitching prospects, neither of which are from the top 5 prospects in the organization, IMO.

CallMeNuts
11-24-2005, 02:07 PM
My initial reaction on seeing Thome for Rowand in my morning paper here in N. Va. was oh no. But then I read that the Sox were getting $22 million toward's Thome's contract, and my reaction changed.

Here's what I would do with that $22 million if I were Kenny Williams.



The key words: "$22 million toward Thome's contract"

The $22 mil contribution from the Phillies effectively reduces Thome's annual cost from approximately $15 million per year (which would be way too high for the Sox to pay) and a more reasonable $7.5 million.

This does not free up an extra $22 million, since we'd have never paid Thome the larger salary.

JackParkman
11-24-2005, 04:26 PM
The Phillies are paying part of his contract. The Sox have to pay 21 million over 3 years to Thome. You do the math on the average.

Thome does have that $13 million dollar option that would automatically vest given a certain number of AB's, although I can' recall the exact trigger numbers.

The Sox acquired a better hitter than Konerko for 7 million a year, Rowand, who was going to be replaced either way, and 2 AA or lower pitching prospects, neither of which are from the top 5 prospects in the organization, IMO.

Actually, I believe the Sox will pay $24 million over three years. And yes, Jim Thome (healthy version) is a steal at $8 million per.
My point, however, is that the $22 million from the Phils goes to Thome, not to some other player the Sox want to pay.

santo=dorf
11-24-2005, 04:57 PM
Actually, I believe the Sox will pay $24 million over three years. And yes, Jim Thome (healthy version) is a steal at $8 million per.
My point, however, is that the $22 million from the Phils goes to Thome, not to some other player the Sox want to pay.

The extra $3 million is due to Thome's buyout after 2008. If the Sox decline that option it's essentially $8 million per for 3 years. If they pick it up it'll be $7 million per for 3 years and 1 year for $10 million.

Great bargain, IMO.

SouthSoxFan
11-25-2005, 08:18 AM
Isn't the 2009 option at $13 million? And I also read that it can become a guaranteed year if he attains a certain number of ABs.

Optipessimism
11-25-2005, 01:46 PM
I'd rather have Konerko for a couple million more per year. He's just entering his prime and has so far shown that he can be counted on for .270+ AVG, 35+ HR's, and 100+ RBI's per season. IMO Giles is headed on the way down, although I think his power numbers would rise in the Cell. Besides, Konerko 1B and Anderson CF is much better defensively than Thome 1B and Pods/Giles CF.

kwolf68
11-25-2005, 03:25 PM
--Sign Paul Konerko

--Acquire Gathright from Tampa Bay

--Deal Brian Anderson for Gathright or if TB wants something else, deal BA for pitching prospect to help replinish from Thome deal

-With ScoPo and Gathright at the top of the order in front of Paulie and Thome and Gooch down in the order to use more power, with improving Crede and Uribe our lineup has a great mixture of speed and power. With the arms we have, its not like we gotta get 8 a night.

--Keep exact same pitching staff, to include Marte. Only deal Marte if someone is willing to pay heavy for him. Move Cotts into his spot. Resign Cliff (done), Hermie, and get one of our two heavys (Garland, Buerhle) locked up for long terms. Start working on getting B-Mac locked up long term

--If we do deal Marte, who becomes the 2nd lefty ?? Eyre is off the board, Ryan is too costly and we don't have anyone from the left side ready to step in from the minors. We need to return Marte and work on his noggin a bit.

vafan
11-25-2005, 11:09 PM
Here's the deal.

The Sox could have Thome/Giles/Thomas for less than the cost of:

Thome/Konerko.

Here's why I'd rather have the former than the latter.

1. Giles, last year, had more runs created and a higher RC27 number than Paul Konerko. Even if Giles is going to trend down and PK up, PK isn't worth the extra $4-5 million/year he's going to get over what Giles will earn. And he's a lefty who doesn't clog the basepaths.

2. The Sox only have "prospects" to replace Aaron Rowand in CF. I don't trust Brian Anderson to fill a full-time role after his 12Ks in 34 ABs tryout last year. If Giles is signed and plays LF, Anderson can spell Pods in CF against lefties and prove his worth. If he fails, the Sox season won't fail with him.

I think Jerry Owens and Chris Young may both be better than Anderson, as was Jeremy Reed. Yet Reed has proven in Seattle that it takes a couple years. Remember how long it took until Aaron Rowand was ready for full-time duty? Giles buys the Sox time to bring up their outfield prospects at the right pace, not rushed too soon.

3. If Frank can play, he may not hit as many HRs as PK, but he will produce as many runs at a fraction of the cost.

There's no question this trio makes the Sox older. But it also gives them a huge boost offensively.

Brian26
11-25-2005, 11:15 PM
Actually, I believe the Sox will pay $24 million over three years. And yes, Jim Thome (healthy version) is a steal at $8 million per.
My point, however, is that the $22 million from the Phils goes to Thome, not to some other player the Sox want to pay.

You're exactly right. This is the same debate that occassionally comes up when people want to allocate US Cellular naming rights fees towards signing a free agent. That money has to be used a certain way. The $22 million goes towards paying Thome's contract.

The Deacon
11-25-2005, 11:35 PM
You're exactly right. This is the same debate that occassionally comes up when people want to allocate US Cellular naming rights fees towards signing a free agent. That money has to be used a certain way. The $22 million goes towards paying Thome's contract.

It doenst legally HAVE to be spent towards Thome's contract, but internally it is definitely "earmarked" towards it.

WestSox
11-26-2005, 11:05 AM
Been away from the computer since this happened so here is my belated $0.02...

I'm happy with this deal, mainly because we're getting Thome at approximately half-price. It's a good calculated risk, considering the relative lack of prolific free-agent hitters. If he plays 120 games this year, I'll be happy. We didn't drive in runs consistently in the playoffs, which put a lot of pressure on our pitching and that area definitely needed to be addressed. Thome strikes out a lot, but his OBP is still relatively high and we needed another 40-HR/100 RBI guy with Frank's health/future uncertain. And even though I hated watching him beat up on the Sox back in the '90s, Thome's a class act and I've always had nothing but respect for him. Definitely a good clubhouse guy. And this was definitely a good way to entice Paulie to re-sign (giving him more protection in the lineup).

And, unfortunately, that leaves Frank as the odd man out. I hate to say it, but Thome's probably going to play more games than Frank this year and, therefore, the team is better off with him. The last I heard, Frank was still on crutches and who knows if he'll even be ready by April. And it's well-known that KW isn't a big fan of Frank, either. Thanks for the memories, big guy, and hopefully you'll have the opportunity to hit that 500th HR.

SOecks
11-26-2005, 11:47 AM
Well, I can speak for the "frank on crutches" statement. A few days after the parade I went to the KFC on Diversey and Halsted and as I walked in, see Big Frank with his kid ordering some chicken to go. I did a complete double take and saw he had his Champions hat on along with the glasses he wore at the parade. I said hi and thanks for everything to him and he thanked me for the support and walked out to some sweet car and drove away. He walked without crutches or a limp. I hope he's back but it looks unlikely now.

RedPinStripes
11-26-2005, 11:57 AM
i would hope the Sox can sign Crede to a 4 years deal sometimne through this season , but I'm pretty sure Satan is his agent so he'll demand 15 mill a year for 25 years. Hopefully Crede has a mind of his own.