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View Full Version : Proof this trade actually HELPS resign Konerko


Scuff
11-24-2005, 12:12 AM
Much is being made about paying 7.2 mil a year to an injury prone Thome, while it might be true that he is a risk injury wise it is actually a cheaper alternative then we had last season and we all know how last season went...

2005 Salaries for DH:

Frank Thomas $8 million
Carl Everett $4 million

$12 Million

2006 Salries for DH:

Jim Thome $7.2 million
Frank Thomas buyout $3.5 million

$10.7 million

Now if you reduce the $3.25 million owed to Aaron Rowand for 2006

10.7m - 3.25m = $7.45 million

So if you look at it that way the Sox cleared up $4.55 million (12 million (2005) - 7.45 million) for extra money to pay for Mr Konerko and maybe another CF (Pierre?), thus this is an excellent trade.

Feel free to comment or ask for me to clarify, I think its pretty clear though.

Tragg
11-24-2005, 12:15 AM
So if you look at it that way the Sox cleared up $4.55 million (12 million (2005) - 7.45 million) for extra money to pay for Mr Konerko and maybe another CF (Pierre?), thus this is an excellent trade.

Feel free to comment or ask for me to clarify, I think its pretty clear though.
Yea, if we spend it, which I'm sure we will.
And you can add the promised $5-$10 mill overall payroll increase to the available cash.

munchman33
11-24-2005, 12:18 AM
Much is being made about paying 7.2 mil a year to an injury prone Thome, while it might be true that he is a risk injury wise it is actually a cheaper alternative then we had last season and we all know how last season went...

2005 Salaries for DH:

Frank Thomas $8 million
Carl Everett $4 million

$12 Million

2006 Salries for DH:

Jim Thome $7.2 million
Frank Thomas buyout $3.5 million

$10.7 million

Now if you reduce the $3.25 million owed to Aaron Rowand for 2006

10.7m - 3.25m = $7.45 million

So if you look at it that way the Sox cleared up $4.55 million (12 million (2005) - 7.45 million) for extra money to pay for Mr Konerko and maybe another CF (Pierre?), thus this is an excellent trade.

Feel free to comment or ask for me to clarify, I think its pretty clear though.

Do you have any idea how much money our arbitration eligible players are going to get? Their increases could easily double that amount. In fact, a stronger argument could probably be made that this decreases the chance of Konerko resigning, unless Kenny sheds more payroll.

Scuff
11-24-2005, 12:19 AM
Yea, if we spend it.
And you can add the promised $5-$10 mill overall payroll increase to the available cash.

very true, i expect it to be about $10 million...a lot of that will go to arbitration eligitble players but there still should be about $5million in extra cash for whitesox to spend on Konerko and another CF maybe...

Scuff
11-24-2005, 12:28 AM
Not sure on full list of players eligible for arbitration, i believe AJ, Crede, and Garland are amongst them but not positive..

munchman33
11-24-2005, 12:31 AM
Not sure on full list of players eligible for arbitration, i believe AJ, Crede, and Garland are amongst them but not positive..

They are. I think Vizcaino too. And a lot of players have scheduled raises.

And with the season Garland had, it isn't out of the realm of possiblity that he goes into arbitration with a figure that's $10 million plus. For a long time he was the best pitcher in the league.

ilsox7
11-24-2005, 12:34 AM
They are. I think Vizcaino too. And a lot of players have scheduled raises.

And with the season Garland had, it isn't out of the realm of possiblity that he goes into arbitration with a figure that's $10 million plus. For a long time he was the best pitcher in the league.

If he gets $10MM next year, I'll mow your lawn for a year, wash your car for 5 years, and paint your house.

Scuff
11-24-2005, 12:35 AM
And with the season Garland had, it isn't out of the realm of possiblity that he goes into arbitration with a figure that's $10 million plus. For a long time he was the best pitcher in the league.

i'd have to disagree with that, there's no way they could justify he deserves $10 million/year, he made 3.4million last year i dont think he'd get more then 6million tops...i mean Buehrle only makes $6m.

munchman33
11-24-2005, 12:42 AM
i'd have to disagree with that, there's no way they could justify he deserves $10 million/year, he made 3.4million last year i dont think he'd get more then 6million tops...i mean Buehrle only makes $6m.

You can go into arbitration with whatever figure you want. It isn't out of the range of possiblity. It depends on his agent. If the agent thinks he can make a strong enough case....

Ol' No. 2
11-24-2005, 12:44 AM
You can go into arbitration with whatever figure you want. It isn't out of the range of possiblity. It depends on his agent. If the agent thinks he can make a strong enough case....He can go into arbitration with a $100M figure. He'll get the same result. He'll lose. That's why the system is set up so that the arbitrator has to choose one figure or the other. It forces both parties to be reasonable in their demands.

ilsox7
11-24-2005, 12:45 AM
He can go into arbitration with a $100M figure. He'll get the same result. He'll lose. That's why the system is set up so that the arbitrator has to choose one figure or the other. It forces both parties to be reasonable in their demands.

That'd be great if he went in with $100MM. He'll get his 20% pay cut and we'll save some salary to go shopping elsewhere. :smile:

Fake Chet Lemon
11-24-2005, 01:00 AM
Much is being made about paying 7.2 mil a year to an injury prone Thome, .


Let's not contribute to this BS hype. Thome hit 47 HRs in '03 and 42 in '04. He got hurt last year and now he is injury prone? Nah. And wasn't that the knock when we got Dye last year too? If we can keep the spiders away, he was an everyday player. Hermy is the best trainer in the game anyway, he'll have Thome mashing.

ilsox7
11-24-2005, 01:06 AM
Let's not contribute to this BS hype. Thome hit 47 HRs in '03 and 42 in '04. He got hurt last year and now he is injury prone? Nah. And wasn't that the knock when we got Dye last year too? If we can keep the spiders away, he was an everyday player. Hermy is the best trainer in the game anyway, he'll have Thome mashing.

As I said in another thread, from 1995-2004 he average 147 games played. Don't believe what the AP and ESPN say about the words "plagued" and "prone."

EDIT: Not directed at FCL, but at others who do not know what either word means.

munchman33
11-24-2005, 01:07 AM
He can go into arbitration with a $100M figure. He'll get the same result. He'll lose. That's why the system is set up so that the arbitrator has to choose one figure or the other. It forces both parties to be reasonable in their demands.

And Jon can't make the argument that he's worth $10 million a year? Even A.J. Burnett is gonna get more than that.

Tragg
11-24-2005, 01:10 AM
He probably could, but I doubt he'd try -risky.
Don't we ususally extend these guys prior to arbitration? Arb can be rather testy.

ilsox7
11-24-2005, 01:12 AM
He probably could, but I doubt he'd try -risky.
Don't we ususally extend these guys prior to arbitration? Arb can be rather testy.

Chances are the Sox and JG come to a 1 year agreement. Maybe the Sox will even extend him 3 years if he is on the big board as being around that long. Jon's value is at its highest right now. IMO, it's in his best interest to take a deal along the lines of 3 years and 25 million if the Sox are offering it. It guarantees him 25 million more dollars and if he performs well during those 3 years, he is just entering the prime age for pitchers and he can cash in BIG TIME then.

KRS1
11-24-2005, 01:27 AM
Chances are the Sox and JG come to a 1 year agreement. Maybe the Sox will even extend him 3 years if he is on the big board as being around that long. Jon's value is at its highest right now. IMO, it's in his best interest to take a deal along the lines of 3 years and 25 million if the Sox are offering it. It guarantees him 25 million more dollars and if he performs well during those 3 years, he is just entering the prime age for pitchers and he can cash in BIG TIME then.

I would love to see JG and Bmac as our 1-2 for a long time, but the way teams like the Yankmees will shell out the bones for them it's getting less and less realistic. If we don't sign Jon long-term now I have a feeling we never will.

MILTMAY5
11-24-2005, 01:28 AM
If he gets $10MM next year, I'll mow your lawn for a year, wash your car for 5 years, and paint your house.Ditto!

Tragg
11-24-2005, 01:33 AM
Chances are the Sox and JG come to a 1 year agreement. Maybe the Sox will even extend him 3 years if he is on the big board as being around that long. Jon's value is at its highest right now. IMO, it's in his best interest to take a deal along the lines of 3 years and 25 million if the Sox are offering it. It guarantees him 25 million more dollars and if he performs well during those 3 years, he is just entering the prime age for pitchers and he can cash in BIG TIME then.
He definitely should. What's he gonna get in Arb, $6? Well, if he goes FA after that, assume the high number and he gets $10...that's $26 million over 3 years, versus a Sox offer of $25 million over 3 years, and the Sox offer is risk free. His value in FA depends on next year's performance plus the FA market.

filmnews
11-24-2005, 01:37 AM
This could also be a back up plan. If the White Sox don't get Konerko back, then they have a first baseman in Thome. Then, they can resign Frank at a bargain price. Also, Dye could do some work at first. But, I would rather have Konerko back. Could you imagine Thome(Healthy) and Konerko back to back? I hope that it works out better then Thomas and Belle.

RichH55
11-24-2005, 01:16 PM
He can go into arbitration with a $100M figure. He'll get the same result. He'll lose. That's why the system is set up so that the arbitrator has to choose one figure or the other. It forces both parties to be reasonable in their demands.

The system is designed to foster compromise

Using the Baseball Arbitration system(ie final offer, arbitrator has to choose one offer or the other) about 98-99% of the cases settle

Using standard arbitraition where the arbitrator can "split the baby", you get a much higher % of cases that will actually be adjudicated through the process(something like 20%)

RichH55
11-24-2005, 01:18 PM
And Jon can't make the argument that he's worth $10 million a year? Even A.J. Burnett is gonna get more than that.


AJ Burnett is a FA, whereas Garland is only arbitration elegible

So it's apples to oranges

For Arbitration, the arbitrator pays "particular" attention to "like" players....meaning similar positions, AND similar service times

So Burnett means little to Garland for purposes of arbitration

RichH55
11-24-2005, 01:19 PM
He definitely should. What's he gonna get in Arb, $6? Well, if he goes FA after that, assume the high number and he gets $10...that's $26 million over 3 years, versus a Sox offer of $25 million over 3 years, and the Sox offer is risk free. His value in FA depends on next year's performance plus the FA market.

Garland would be foolish not to take that offer


Though of all the SPs on our staff(not counting El Duque), Garland has to be the most availible in trades

Randar68
11-24-2005, 02:09 PM
And Jon can't make the argument that he's worth $10 million a year? Even A.J. Burnett is gonna get more than that.

Garland willnot get more than 6 million in Arbitration even if it goes that far.

I think the ceiling on him is a deal similar to what Buehrle got, even though Buehrle had a longer recod of success, and greater success than what JG has shown thus far.

AJ won't get more than 4-4.5 million. Vizcaino is not arb. eligible IIRC, and Crede made 400k, he's not going to get a bump to anything more than 1.5 million given that he hit .252.

Combined, I would guess Garland, Crede and AJ will make a combined 10-12 million TOPS in 2006.

seanpmurphy
11-24-2005, 02:14 PM
This could also be a back up plan. If the White Sox don't get Konerko back, then they have a first baseman in Thome. Then, they can resign Frank at a bargain price. Also, Dye could do some work at first. But, I would rather have Konerko back. Could you imagine Thome(Healthy) and Konerko back to back? I hope that it works out better then Thomas and Belle.


No.