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MERPER
11-23-2005, 06:42 PM
are Gio Gonzalez and Daniel Hagwood... I don't know much about the latter, but Gonzalez was good... clearly, KW has more faith in Lance Broadway and Ray Liotta

Heffalump
11-23-2005, 08:05 PM
are Gio Gonzalez and Daniel Hagwood... I don't know much about the latter, but Gonzalez was good... clearly, KW has more faith in Lance Broadway and Ray Liotta

I belive that Haigwood is that 22 year old knuckleballer that was striking everyone out in A ball. It woulda been kinda cool to see if he turned out to be another Wilbur Wood, ie start or relieve whenever and pitch 250 -350 innings a year.

Giving up the two prospects makes the deal a little more sticky for me, but I guess KW had to do it in order for Philly to pick up approx. 50% of Thome's contract.

I don't have much interest in Gio, I think he is too small/fragile to be a big league starter, a la Parque, but I would of liked to see them hang on to Haigwood.

ATXBMX
11-23-2005, 08:21 PM
Haeger is the knuckleballer, Haigwood was dominating AA during the second half.

6-1------1.74 ERA----67.1 IP---39 H----76 K-----0 HR

veeter
11-23-2005, 08:32 PM
KW has an awesome track record at trading great prospects that really don't do much. They may make major league rosters but aren't stars.

nccwsfan
11-23-2005, 08:59 PM
Prospects=Unproven.

We acquired a 40+ HR, 100+ RBI LH power hitter for Rowand and 2 PROSPECTS. I'll take that deal any day...

MadetoOrta
11-23-2005, 09:19 PM
Prospects=Unproven.

We acquired a 40+ HR, 100+ RBI LH power hitter for Rowand and 2 PROSPECTS. I'll take that deal any day...

Agreed

MHOUSE
11-24-2005, 02:02 AM
Pitching prospects are a dime-a-dozen. Very few reach their potential and those that do often do so on teams other than the ones that drafted them. I'd take proven talent, especially position-player talent over a 20-something prospect any day.

LuvSox
11-24-2005, 02:06 AM
Pitching prospects are a dime-a-dozen. Very few reach their potential and those that do often do so on teams other than the ones that drafted them. I'd take proven talent, especially position-player talent over a 20-something prospect any day.

Shame on you! What about Kerry Wood?

Lip Man 1
11-24-2005, 02:03 PM
Good teams continue to retool with ML caliber players by dealing kids. Baseball America concluded in a study that only 1 out of 10 minor league players ever spend a day in the big leagues.

Considering those odds anytime you can get a big league player for some untested, unproven kids you do so, in my opinion.

Lip

TommyJohn
11-24-2005, 02:09 PM
I'm glad that Williams is the anti-Schueler. Let him deal.

SouthSoxFan
11-25-2005, 08:23 AM
Considering those odds anytime you can get a big league player for some untested, unproven kids you do so, in my opinion.

Especially when you have a Championship ballclub looking to repeat.

The Wall
11-25-2005, 10:05 AM
For all that value eof Rowand we talk about, he was the starter for the first time in 2005 for the full year. Almost as if he just came up in the previous year. So its mostly a 2.5 prospect and 0.75 major leaguer for Thome. Good deal IMO.

Tragg
11-25-2005, 10:20 AM
For all that value eof Rowand we talk about, he was the starter for the first time in 2005 for the full year. Almost as if he just came up in the previous year. So its mostly a 2.5 prospect and 0.75 major leaguer for Thome. Good deal IMO.
And Thome at $6.5 million a year, a below market price.
The moneyball people will lambast this trade; yet the money is the key to it. How can moneyball people not get the money aspect?

broker3d
11-25-2005, 10:34 AM
Prospects=Unproven.

We acquired a 40+ HR, 100+ RBI LH power hitter for Rowand and 2 PROSPECTS. I'll take that deal any day...

well said NC.

California Sox
11-25-2005, 01:35 PM
Pitching prospects are a dime-a-dozen. Very few reach their potential and those that do often do so on teams other than the ones that drafted them. I'd take proven talent, especially position-player talent over a 20-something prospect any day.

Depends on the prospect. In early 2004 KW was set to throw BMac into a potential deal Ordonez for Nomar. That's a trade we would have regretted for many reasons, not the least of which is that it appears BMac's going to be a heckuva player. The smart GMs, like the guy in Atlanta, trade players they don't like and keep the guys they do. I hope that's the case here, that the Sox don't think that highly of Gio and Haigwood.

flo-B-flo
11-25-2005, 04:02 PM
Especially when you have a Championship ballclub looking to repeat. DING!! This reads sooooo goooddd!!

dugwood31
11-26-2005, 02:09 AM
From Baseball America. This pretty much sums it up.


White Sox don't stand pat, deal for Thome


By Jim Callis
November 25, 2005

World Series champions can fall into the trap of trying to keep their club intact rather than attempting to improve. The White Sox showed that they won't, however, when they finalized a trade with the Phillies on Friday that brought them Jim Thome for Aaron Rowand, Double-A lefthander Daniel Haigwood and a player to be named later. Multiple baseball sources have identified the additional player as high Class A lefty Gio Gonzalez. Philadelphia also included $24 million to defray the remaining $46 million over the next three years of Thome's contract, a six-year deal worth $85 million.

Thome's departure clears the way for the Phillies to make National League rookie of the year Ryan Howard an everyday player at first base, while Rowand fills their hole in center field. From the White Sox' perspective, Thome is insurance in case Paul Konerko departs as a free agent and a DH if Konerko returns. Chicago is expected to turn over center field to a minor leaguer, most likely 2003 first-round pick Brian Anderson.

Thome, 35, hit a total of 89 homers in his first two seasons with Philadelphia, but dropped to .207/.360/.352 with seven homers and 30 RBIs in 59 games in 2005 when he was plagued by back and elbow injuries. He had elbow surgery in August, ending his season. When healthy, Thome is one of the best lefthanded power hitters in the game and annually among his league's leader in walks. He will strike out and doesn't do much on the basepaths or defensively, but that's an acceptable tradeoff for his production. He's a career .281/.408/.562 hitter with 430 homers and 1,193 RBIs in 1,738 games.

Rowand, 28, is one of the best defensive center fielders in baseball and was deserving of a Gold Glove in 2005. But his production slipped in his second year as a regular, from .310/.361/.544 with 24 homers in 2004 to .270/.329/.407 with 13 homers in 2005. He does a lot more damage against lefthanders, with a career .863 OPS against southpaws compared to .771 against righties (and just .703 this season). His speed and power are average, though he has good instincts and has stolen 33 bases in 43 tries over the last two years. Rowand will make $3.2 million in 2006 and his contract calls for a player option of $3.25 million and a club option of $5 million in 2007. He has batted .283/.337/.451 with 54 homers, 211 RBIs and 38 steals in 579 career games.

Gonzalez, 20, would become the second-best prospect in the Phillies system, ranking behind only Cole Hamels. A supplemental-first round pick out of a Miami high school in 2004, Gonzalez split his first full season between low Class A Kannapolis and high Class A Winston-Salem. He went 13-6, 2.82 in 24 games (23 starts), with a 163-47 K-BB ratio in 131 innings. Opponents batted just .205 with eight homers against him. Gonzalez' best pitch is an outstanding curveball, and he also has a low-90s fastball and a quality changeup. He throws strikes, and the only real question about him is how well his 5-foot-11, 180-pound frame will hold up. He had some back and shoulder problems in 2005. Haigwood, 22, was a 16th-round pick in 2002 out of Midland High in Pleasant Plains, Ark., where he won his first 43 decisions before losing his finale. He has been a consistent winner as a pro as well, going 32-11. He went 14-3, 2.82 in 26 starts this year between Winston-Salem and Double-A Birmingham. In 144 innings, he had a 160-64 K-BB ratio, a .223 opponent average and eight homers allowed. He doesn't overwhelm hitters so much as keep them off balance. His curveball is his best pitch, his changeup has improved and he throws both two-seam and four-seam fastballs. His sinker is better than his four-seamer, which ranges from 88-92 mph.

TDog
11-26-2005, 02:44 AM
are Gio Gonzalez and Daniel Hagwood... I don't know much about the latter, but Gonzalez was good... clearly, KW has more faith in Lance Broadway and Ray Liotta

According to the AP story Friday, in the approved deal, the Sox didn't deal Gio Gonzalez, but a player to be named later.

caulfield12
11-26-2005, 09:03 AM
are Gio Gonzalez and Daniel Hagwood... I don't know much about the latter, but Gonzalez was good... clearly, KW has more faith in Lance Broadway and Ray Liotta

This is simply not the case. We took less money so that we wouldnīt have to trade Contreras and McCarthy and could still defend our championship with the pitching intact.

Gonzalez automatically becomes the Philliesī number two pitching prospect. The deal would not have been practical for Philly if it was Liotta and Haigwood.

They could not have obtained Broadway, he is not yet eligible to be traded.

Gonzalez has a small frame and durability concerns, but he throws 92-94 consistently and has one of the best breaking balls in the minors. He is something of a cross between Johan Santana and Barry Zito, without quite the same fastball and curve. He could be an outstanding pitcher, or he could be injured and never see the majors. But he was going to be one of our top three prospects going into next season, with Haigwood somewhere between 5-10 on most lists. From 1999-2001, we know how many of those pitchers from Top 10 lists are still on the Sox roster, and what we would have if we traded Borchard, Corwin Malone, Kris Honel and Jon Rauch at their top values.

caulfield12
11-26-2005, 09:05 AM
According to the AP story Friday, in the approved deal, the Sox didn't deal Gio Gonzalez, but a player to be named later.

This gave me a little hope, but everything I have read Ļtop baseball sources,Ļ it all points to Gio.

Maybe, just maybe, itīs a deal like the Rangers made for Everett where they could wait halfway through next season and pick from a pool of Gonzalez, Liotta, Lumsden, etc., because of durability-injury concerns about Gio. But thatīs a very unusual type of trade. It is curious why some sources are still quoting it as a player to be named later. I would love to give up Liotta instead of Gio.

SouthSoxFan
11-26-2005, 11:14 AM
This is from the WhiteSox web site last night under the title "Thome-to-Sox deal becomes official"
Philadelphia will pick up $22 million of the $46 million still owed to Thome over the next three years, with an option on the slugging first baseman for 2009. The White Sox also sent Minor League hurler Daniel Haigwood to the Phillies, along with a player to be named later, who will likely be Gio Gonzalez.