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View Full Version : Poll time: Do you like the deal?


ma-gaga
11-23-2005, 06:10 PM
Do you like the deal being reported:

A.Rowand + 2 minor leaguers for J.Thome and $20MM+?

SOXSINCE'70
11-23-2005, 06:13 PM
Let's trust in KW and wait and see.Thome should have a huge
chip on his shoulder and a lot to prove in 2006.Losing Rowand
depresses me,but,as even he pointed out in an interview on
Monday night,baseball is a cold,cold,business.

Tragg
11-23-2005, 06:13 PM
Anyone know his salary and contract length?
I would hope this, with the $20 mill, would allow us to sign Konerko plus one more free agent.
Throwing in two of our top minor league pitching prospects seems like overkill.

rmusacch
11-23-2005, 06:16 PM
I don't like the deal because of the two pitchers that were included.

Chips
11-23-2005, 06:19 PM
It's great deal. Who cares about a couple of minor league pitchers. If Thome helps us win another World Series, than who really cares? Great trade.

It's Time
11-23-2005, 06:20 PM
It's great deal. Who cares about a couple of minor league pitchers. If Thome helps us win another World Series, than who really cares? Great trade.

Do you think defensive CF like Aaron grow on trees? :?: You act as if the White Sox gave up nothing.

ShoelessJoeS
11-23-2005, 06:23 PM
I don't like the deal because of the two pitchers that were included.
Kenny has a "Win Now" attitude and I love it! Haigwood and Gio might not even be successful in the majors. In Thome, we know what we're getting.

Ol Aches & Pains
11-23-2005, 06:23 PM
Do you like the deal being reported:

A.Rowand + 2 minor leaguers for J.Thome and $20MM+?

Yes, very much. They weren't going to re-sign Thomas anyway, and Thome could play 1st base if he had to, if the Sox can't re-sign Konerko.

Plus, you can move Podsednik back to his natural position in center, and see what Brian Anderson or Joe Borchard (just kidding) can do in left.

Rowand's production fell dramatically in 2005 as compared with 2004. I believe he dropped about 40 points of batting average. Provided Thome's healthy, I think it's a hell of a deal.

Daver
11-23-2005, 06:24 PM
Do you think defensive CF like Aaron grow on trees? :?: You act as if the White Sox gave up nothing.

There are three better defensive CF's in the Sox minor league system right now.

ShoelessJoeS
11-23-2005, 06:25 PM
Do you think defensive CF like Aaron grow on trees? :?: You act as if the White Sox gave up nothing.
The fact that Anderson is major league ready played a factor in this trade, and his D is just as good as ARows.

DSpivack
11-23-2005, 06:25 PM
Yes, very much. They weren't going to re-sign Thomas anyway, and Thome could play 1st base if he had to, if the Sox can't re-sign Konerko.

Plus, you can move Podsednik back to his natural position in center, and see what Brian Anderson or Joe Borchard (just kidding) can do in left.

Rowand's production fell dramatically in 2005 as compared with 2004. I believe he dropped about 40 points of batting average. Provided Thome's healthy, I think it's a hell of a deal.

See Daver's post. Anderson is better defensively than Rowand, right?

It's Time
11-23-2005, 06:26 PM
There are three better defensive CF's in the Sox minor league system right now.

My response was in reaction to Chips' post stating the White Sox gave up nothing. Rowand is hardly "nothing". He's as solid as they come and should have won the GG this year.

vernhillssoxfan
11-23-2005, 06:29 PM
I for one voted maybe. I just have to trust in what KW is doing. If we don't resign Konerko then this deal turns out to be a lot better.

It was just a few years ago we feared playing against Thome when he played for the Indians. Let's hope he has that type of power hitting with the Sox.

MarySwiss
11-23-2005, 06:31 PM
Yes, very much. They weren't going to re-sign Thomas anyway, and Thome could play 1st base if he had to, if the Sox can't re-sign Konerko.

Plus, you can move Podsednik back to his natural position in center, and see what Brian Anderson or Joe Borchard (just kidding) can do in left.

Rowand's production fell dramatically in 2005 as compared with 2004. I believe he dropped about 40 points of batting average. Provided Thome's healthy, I think it's a hell of a deal.

Okay, let me see if I got this right. The Sox aren't going to re-sign Frank and may not re-sign Paulie. And this is based on??

But no matter. Thome can DH, bat in the three-hole, bat in the four-hole, and play first base. At the age of 35. WOW! And we all thought Brian Anderson was the Greatest American Hero!

Daver
11-23-2005, 06:31 PM
My response was in reaction to Chips' post stating the White Sox gave up nothing. Rowand is hardly "nothing". He's as solid as they come and should have won the GG this year.

From a certain perspective, he is correct, if you have a replacement for a player that can play at close to his level, what have you given up?

Anderson is a better fielder, with less power, but better plate discipline.

That being said, I would not be surprised if Joe Borchard was not given a chance to win the job in ST.

Tragg
11-23-2005, 06:32 PM
Plus, you can move Podsednik back to his natural position in center
.
That would seriously harm our D. Anderson to CF, Podsendik stays in LF, please.

ShoelessJoeS
11-23-2005, 06:34 PM
That would seriously harm our D. Anderson to CF, Podsendik stays in LF, please.
I agree. Pods is quick, but can't make the plays like Anderson can.

MarySwiss
11-23-2005, 06:35 PM
That would seriously harm our D. Anderson to CF, Podsendik stays in LF, please.

Yup, very true. The couple of times Pods played in CF, he looked really uncomfortable. IMO, he plays a much better LF.

Frankfan4life
11-23-2005, 06:36 PM
Looks like I'm in the minority on this one. I don't care. I like Rowand and I'm worried that this move might affect team chemistry. Arow practically bleeds black & silver. Why trade him? We won a World Series with this guy! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT! I'm really bummed out!

MasQbellesa
11-23-2005, 06:39 PM
:gulp: Here's to a healthy Thome and a huge "go gettem" to Aaron!

A.T. Money
11-23-2005, 06:40 PM
Looks like I'm in the minority on this one. I don't care. I like Rowand and I'm worried that this move might affect team chemistry. Arow practically bleeds black & silver. Why trade him? We won a World Series with this guy! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT! I'm really bummed out!

Rowand's stock is probably as high as possible. We have a surpluss of outfielders. What was Rowand's postseason batting average? Nuff said.

Thome on the other hand is a total badass. And I believe this will make Konerko come back. Talk about great protection. This guy can hit 50 homers in our park.

Taliesinrk
11-23-2005, 06:41 PM
I just want Frank back...:whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

Tragg
11-23-2005, 06:42 PM
Pods has a seriously weak arm. That runner would have been out by a mile at the plate in GAme 2 WS with any kind of arm (although they wouldn't have sent him with a good arm out there). But he's a good LF because he can cover like a CF covers.

FloridaSox
11-23-2005, 06:44 PM
Looks like I'm in the minority on this one. I don't care. I like Rowand and I'm worried that this move might affect team chemistry. Arow practically bleeds black & silver. Why trade him? We won a World Series with this guy! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT! I'm really bummed out!

If it ain't broker make it better...and by the way our offensive numbers last year were broke.

wassagstdu
11-23-2005, 06:46 PM
Looks like I'm in the minority on this one. I don't care. I like Rowand and I'm worried that this move might affect team chemistry. Arow practically bleeds black & silver. Why trade him? We won a World Series with this guy! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT! I'm really bummed out!

Looks to me like a bad trade. Rowand was a big part of the soul of the team. Thome is another Frank Thomas. Once great, maybe again, but not healthy and in any case one-dimensional. I think this means the Sox have given up on Frank, no? Key may be the $20MM. If they use that to pick up some speed and defense it will be OK. But wait, that's what they gave up. Makes no sense to me.

Also seems to be based on a lot of faith in Anderson. We'll see.

.

Tragg
11-23-2005, 06:50 PM
Key may be the $20MM. If they use that to pick up some speed and defense it will be OK. But wait, that's what they gave up. Makes no sense to me.

Also seems to be based on a lot of faith in Anderson. We'll see.

.
I agree that the key is spending that money (if it's 20 Mill, then the net payroll increase is under 2 mill by my calculation). If it's not reinvested for Konerko + a FA or extensions on some pitchers, that will bite. However, we didn't lose any speed and defense - lost offense out of the CF position, perhaps, but we'll have to see.

Canadian_SoxFan
11-23-2005, 06:50 PM
Do you think defensive CF like Aaron grow on trees? :?: You act as if the White Sox gave up nothing. I am a huge Rowand fan, and I hate to see him go. But from what I heard, Anderson is just as good/if not better defensively.

It's Time
11-23-2005, 06:53 PM
I am a huge Rowand fan, and I hate to see him go. But from what I heard, Anderson is just as good/if not better defensively.

He has somehttp://price.ou.edu/pcblabs/pcblabs_body/Classfiles/Class%20Files%20NP/BCC%20Media%20Files/Web%20Graphics/big_shoes_to_fill.jpgto fill.

veeter
11-23-2005, 06:54 PM
I don't like the deal because of the two pitchers that were included. My thoughts exactly. However, I hated giving up Wells and Fogg, too. But Gio and Haigwood, especially Gio sound superb. Here's to hoping they don't pan out.

IggyD
11-23-2005, 06:55 PM
I vote no on the poll...however I understand KW reason for this trade....The insurance for power hitting if PK does not return.....however I feel Aaron has yet to have his best season.

Hendu
11-23-2005, 06:59 PM
The more I think about this trade, the more I like it. Of course, assuming that Thome passes a thorough physical to make sure his elbow is healed.

I'll miss Rowand, but we have some outfielders in the system who have a much bigger upside. Brian Anderson is major-league ready.

35th St. Slick
11-23-2005, 07:01 PM
Bruce Levine on ESPN1000 reports:

A) Frank Thomas's career with the White Sox is all but guaranteed to be over

B) The Sox are still actively pursuing Paul Konerko

C) The Sox have NO interest in Juan Pierre and plan to play Brian Anderson in CF.



The Sox are on the hook for $8 Million per year for Thome for the next four seasons.

northshoresoxfan
11-23-2005, 07:02 PM
Although it is with a heavy heart that I say this trade means Frank will not be back and that Rowand is gone. This is a very good trade. In this market, Rowand is overvalued and Thome is undervalued (do to injury). Plus this gets Anderson in the line up full time.

Bottom line is that with an improved AL central next year we need a better offence. I think we got very lucky that the indians had a terrible first half last season. The lack of a big DH bat was a whole that Kenny has now filled. The Thome deal brings in money (in part to pay for his salaray) and frees up Rowand's abritraition rasing salary this year. With the money we made from the playoffs and the money we saved on Rowand we can now make a bigger push for Paulie. And in the off chance we don't get Paulie back we now have Thome to fill his spot. This trade fills a big whole either way and gives a better dynamic to our righty filled line-up. More importantly we didn't give up any of our five horses to get a big bat. In Kenny we trust.....

oeo
11-23-2005, 07:07 PM
Do you think defensive CF like Aaron grow on trees? :?: You act as if the White Sox gave up nothing.

They seem to be growing on trees in our farm system. Did you think the Phillies were just going to give us Thome? You have to give up talent to get talent. Not only do we have Anderson who is ready now, we have Young as well.

And who's to say Haigwood or Gonzalez ARE going to be major league players. You guys don't know that, we want to defend our championship...if that takes "giving up our future", so be it. You have no reason to say that those two guys are going to be good, or they will not make it here because of injury. We got a proven major league talent.

Ol Aches & Pains
11-23-2005, 07:08 PM
Okay, let me see if I got this right. The Sox aren't going to re-sign Frank and may not re-sign Paulie. And this is based on??

Common sense. If you're going to keep Thomas, why do you want Thome? Do we really need two banged-up, over the hill 1st basemen/DH's?

Tragg
11-23-2005, 07:11 PM
Common sense. If you're going to keep Thomas, why do you want Thome? Do we really need two banged-up, over the hill 1st basemen/DH's?

They must think FRank's injuries are unrecoverable; or Ozzie doesn't like Frank.

deck27
11-23-2005, 07:18 PM
I just want Frank back...:whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

That ship sailed. I think the Sox are tired of paying TONS for partial seasons, with no guarantee he'll ever be back.

WS in 05
11-23-2005, 07:19 PM
As I see it there are many different ways to look at this trade. If history has taught us nothing we must wait to see what Kenny does, for instance last years trade of C-Lee for Pods freed up a lot of salary cap space for the team to sign sign AJ, Hermanson, and couple of other players. So we must wait and see what he does with the discounted Thome. As us all I will really miss Aaron patrolling center field for the white sox. lastly if we are able to resign Konerko we have a serious chance of conteding if we can stay healthy and garland and contrerars pitch the way they did last year.

ShoelessJoeS
11-23-2005, 07:20 PM
Bruce Levine on ESPN1000 reports:

A) Frank Thomas's career with the White Sox is all but guaranteed to be over

B) The Sox are still actively pursuing Paul Konerko

C) The Sox have NO interest in Juan Pierre and plan to play Brian Anderson in CF.



The Sox are on the hook for $8 Million per year for Thome for the next four seasons.
Since the Phillies are covering 22 million of Thome's 46 remaining, the Sox are only taking on 24 million, which would be 8 a year for the next 3 years.

slavko
11-23-2005, 07:21 PM
They need to open up a spot for Anderson in CF. That made Aaron expendable. Pods doesn't belong in CF. He is scary going back or coming in on a ball. Where he can use his speed is going left or right.

Thome? If he's the Thome of 5 years ago, great. Otherwise this is worse than going after Roy Sievers with young studs and $$$ after winning in 1959. (Roy did have a couple nice years here, tho.)

ShoelessJoeS
11-23-2005, 07:22 PM
Common sense. If you're going to keep Thomas, why do you want Thome? Do we really need two banged-up, over the hill 1st basemen/DH's?
Possibly, if we can't make a deal with Paulie.

MarySwiss
11-23-2005, 07:31 PM
Common sense. If you're going to keep Thomas, why do you want Thome? Do we really need two banged-up, over the hill 1st basemen/DH's?

You make my point. If you're going to have a banged-up, over-the-hill 1st baseman/DH, keep the one you know and love. Why trade for another, especially if you're giving up a quality CF and, by all reports, quality prospects? I know, many prospects go bust, but this trade boggles my mind.

Well, we shall see! :?:

MarySwiss
11-23-2005, 07:32 PM
Bruce Levine on ESPN1000 reports:

A) Frank Thomas's career with the White Sox is all but guaranteed to be over

B) The Sox are still actively pursuing Paul Konerko

C) The Sox have NO interest in Juan Pierre and plan to play Brian Anderson in CF.



The Sox are on the hook for $8 Million per year for Thome for the next four seasons.

C'mon! Levine?

ilsox7
11-23-2005, 07:34 PM
Bruce Levine on ESPN1000 reports:

A) Frank Thomas's career with the White Sox is all but guaranteed to be over

B) The Sox are still actively pursuing Paul Konerko

C) The Sox have NO interest in Juan Pierre and plan to play Brian Anderson in CF.



The Sox are on the hook for $8 Million per year for Thome for the next four seasons.

It scares me to say that Bruce Levine may be right, but I think he is dead on. And I would be happy if he was dead on in this case.

MRKARNO
11-23-2005, 07:35 PM
If you're going to have a banged-up, over-the-hill 1st baseman/DH, keep the one you know and love.

Because one of them is 2 years younger, has missed significant time in only 1 of the past five seasons as opposed to 3 of the past five seasons and is not really all that banged up now nor over the hill.

seanpmurphy
11-23-2005, 07:41 PM
Because one of them is 2 years younger, has missed significant time in only 1 of the past five seasons as opposed to 3 of the past five seasons and is not really all that banged up now nor over the hill.

Yes I was just about to make that point. Thome's really only missed one season it looks like to injuries, this past one. Thomas in the last 2 seasons has only played in around 100 games. Also, Thome does provide more insurance in the tragic event Konerko does not return. Frank Thomas taking the field at 1B? Right. I'm not a fortune teller, but I recall hearing plenty of stuff about how almost all of last offseasons trades were going to be terrible as well and look at the end result. Just have to wait and see huh?

I think it's a good deal and am kind of excited to see what Thome can do in a Sox uni.

Canadian_SoxFan
11-23-2005, 07:42 PM
They need to open up a spot for Anderson in CF. That made Aaron expendable. Pods doesn't belong in CF. He is scary going back or coming in on a ball. Where he can use his speed is going left or right.

Thome? If he's the Thome of 5 years ago, great. Otherwise this is worse than going after Roy Sievers with young studs and $$$ after winning in 1959. (Roy did have a couple nice years here, tho.) I was a huge Rowand supporter, but if we get the Thome of 2004, then this was a good trade.

munchman33
11-23-2005, 07:47 PM
If you hate this deal because we're parting with Rowand, then I can understand. I think you're wrong, but I understand your argument.

If you hate this deal because we gave up two prospects, you deserve to be shot. This team is in win now mode. Nobody wants to hear about the future. The future is now. We just won a title. The nucleus is locked in cheap. We should be focused on contending the next two seasons, because we can win. We shouldn't be thinking 3-5 years down the road.

Daver
11-23-2005, 07:59 PM
We shouldn't be thinking 3-5 years down the road.

You might not be, but Kenny is.

The way the minor league teams are structured right now, and the players that are there, along with the way he structures contracts, he is preparing himself to be able to replace any given piece at any given time.

Kenny Williams is planning for the long haul, not a short flash.

Optipessimism
11-23-2005, 08:08 PM
You might not be, but Kenny is.

The way the minor league teams are structured right now, and the players that are there, along with the way he structures contracts, he is preparing himself to be able to replace any given piece at any given time.

Kenny Williams is planning for the long haul, not a short flash.

I like the trade. We don't give up a ML starter and get salary relief. KW made a great move because now we get to open CF to Anderson/Young. This should be fun to watch.

ilsox7
11-23-2005, 08:10 PM
I like the trade. We don't give up a ML starter and get salary relief. KW made a great move because now we get to open CF to Anderson/Young. This should be fun to watch.

It actually could make us scary good. If things work out, we are getting a MONSTER left-handed DH for 2-3 years and improving CF. And if McCarthy and JC pitch like they did down the stretch, our rotation is actually improving from last year. If I am the rest of baseball, I am scared of the Sox the next few years.

Fuller_Schettman
11-23-2005, 08:17 PM
The good news is that very soon, we will see someone in a SOX uniform hit their 500th Home Run...

The bad news is it ain't gonna be Frank Thomas...

munchman33
11-23-2005, 08:28 PM
Kenny Williams is planning for the long haul, not a short flash.

Are you sure? I know he's got that big board, but he's traded away a heckuva lot more prospects than he's traded for or given a chance to start. Kenny's always in win now mode. And honestly, now he should be, more than ever.

dzipio
11-23-2005, 08:38 PM
I like Rowand's glove and spirit a lot, but his offense was not great and baserunning questionable at times. Thome might actually help us get Paulie back since he's got someone behind him in the order. As far as the prospects, they are suspects until they prove otherwise.

illinibk
11-23-2005, 08:39 PM
Not a fan. I know of Thome's elbow problems, but hasn't he had back problems as well? Thome has been a Sox killer, and I think he will continue to kill the Sox even though he is on the team. I am afraid he will get injured, strike out a ton, or just be totally worthless, while Kenny will not be able to get rid of him. I hope I am wrong, but I am just not confident. And part of me thinks this is Sammy Sosa for George Bell part two.

ilsox7
11-23-2005, 08:42 PM
Not a fan. I know of Thome's elbow problems, but hasn't he had back problems as well? Thome has been a Sox killer, and I think he will continue to kill the Sox even though he is on the team. I am afraid he will get injured, strike out a ton, or just be totally worthless, while Kenny will not be able to get rid of him. I hope I am wrong, but I am just not confident. And part of me thinks this is Sammy Sosa for George Bell part two.

1995-2004 Jim Thome averaged 147 games played.

Daver
11-23-2005, 09:03 PM
Are you sure? I know he's got that big board, but he's traded away a heckuva lot more prospects than he's traded for or given a chance to start. Kenny's always in win now mode. And honestly, now he should be, more than ever.

Take a long look at the minors, he has drafted players at every position, with an emphasis on pitchers and outfielders, he rarely trades an infield prospect unless the team has given up on him, and trades pitching prospects from a position of strength, not weakness, outfielders as well.

Prospects are prospects, they are not proven players, you scout well, and draft well, and you have a large trading pool for proven talent, and it can be done without depleting your system.

kevin57
11-23-2005, 09:08 PM
I don't know if I like the phrasing of the poll question. I would say I "agree" with the deal, but to put it as a Thome vs. Rowand "awesome," one way or another does not describe my feelings. I will miss Aaron and the team may miss Rowand more than what his offensive numbers showed this year.

gobears1987
11-23-2005, 09:12 PM
Do you think defensive CF like Aaron grow on trees? :?: You act as if the White Sox gave up nothing.For the SOx, they do grow on trees. (See Anderson and Young)

alohafri
11-23-2005, 09:21 PM
It's great deal. Who cares about a couple of minor league pitchers. If Thome helps us win another World Series, than who really cares? Great trade.

Could we have thrown in the rights to Scott Ruffcorn too?

I am a HUGE Rowand fan. I only like this deal if Anderson truly is ready for prime time. If we re-sign Paulie, it is good bye Frank.

Frater Perdurabo
11-23-2005, 09:45 PM
I am cautiously optimistic that this deal will work out well for the Sox.

Rowand, Haigwood and Gio now are on an NL team. As it stands right now, they can't hurt the Sox in the future.

Thome has proven himself in both leagues. He hits well at the Cell. He can play 1B or DH. (Everett could not play 1B, and remember that Thome is replacing Everett!) As others have said, Thome is the most powerful LHB the Sox have had since Ventura.

Thome protects the Sox in the event that Konerko accepts a big offer from another team (Orioles, Red Sox, Angels, etc.), or if Frank cannot return to good health. But even if Konerko returns to the Sox, there's still room for Frank on the roster. After all, there was room for Frank, Konerko and Everett in 2005, right? Worst case scenario, if PK leaves and Frank can't play, the Sox still only need to sign a 1B or an OF, because Jermaine Dye can move to first if needed.

As Daver said, the Sox have multiple superior defensive CFs in their system. Even if Anderson hits .200 and bats ninth, he'll play better defense in CF.

My deeppink pipedream now is for the Sox to sign Furcal and Giles for $8 million per year each, let Konerko walk, trade Uribe for bullpen help and/or prospects and re-sign Frank to an incentive-laden deal predicated on his willingness and ability to be a part-time player (300 plate appearances). Check out these lineups:

Against rhp (DH rotated to rest players while keeping them in the lineup; Frank is primary PH):
DH Pods (L), SS Furcal (S), 1B Thome (L), LF Giles (L), RF Dye (R), 2B Iguchi (R), C AJ (L), 3B Crede (R), CF Anderson (R)

Against lhp (Frank is full-time DH):
SS Furcal (S), 2B Iguchi (R), 1B Thome (L), DH Frank (R), LF Giles (L), RF Dye (R), 3B Crede (R), C Widger (R), CF Anderson (R)

TornLabrum
11-23-2005, 09:48 PM
I gave this trade an unqualified maybe. I don't think that this is the end of KW's dealing. I have a feeling there is another deal coming up that will follow up on this one. As it is we gave up speed and defense, and I don't know if Anderson makes up for either. As of now, I think we're weaker up the middle than we were 8 hours ago.

PKalltheway
11-23-2005, 09:49 PM
I voted maybe. I'm just going to let time dictate whether or not this will be a good trade.


:bigklu
Another massive left handed Sox slugger Ted Kluszewski

35th St. Slick
11-23-2005, 10:05 PM
Let's just hope that Herm Schneider can work his magic on Thome like he did with Crede's back this year, and Bo Jackson's bionic hip.

In Herm we trust!

I'll miss Aaron Rowand, but at least he's going to a contender and not the Florida Marlins AAA team. ...and at least he's getting out of the AL and not going to the Yankees, who were smitten with him.

...and Happy Thanksgiving everybody! :)

It's Time
11-23-2005, 10:13 PM
As of now, I think we're weaker up the middle than we were 8 hours ago.

No doubt about it. I don't care that people say that Anderson is "ready". This is the big stage now, a whole different game. I'm not saying he can't play but for people to just dismiss Aaron's abilities is just a bit on the strange side.

RichFitztightly
11-23-2005, 10:21 PM
All I know is Brian Anderson won a game single handedly against that wonder kid from Seattle this past year. I'd say he's ready. I love this trade, assuming Thome is fairly healthy. I love that the Sox didn't give up any of the starting pitching this past year.

I would love a rotation of Konerko, Thome, and Frank Thomas in the 1B/DH roles. At least Paulie would then get a rest once in a while instead of playing 170 games a year. That rotation makes sense if Thomas comes cheap and there's still lingering doubts about their respective injuries.

russ99
11-23-2005, 10:23 PM
That ship sailed. I think the Sox are tired of paying TONS for partial seasons, with no guarantee he'll ever be back.

Ya know, that truly depends on...

...If Frank wants or can come back and play at a major league level,

...If Frank can swallow his pride and take a MAJOR pay cut (1-2M salary) with performance bonuses,

...If KW can't resign Paulie or get another power hitting 1B or corner OF withn the Sox' budget...

Then Frank will be back next season.

TornLabrum
11-23-2005, 11:19 PM
All I know is Brian Anderson won a game single handedly against that wonder kid from Seattle this past year. I'd say he's ready. I love this trade, assuming Thome is fairly healthy. I love that the Sox didn't give up any of the starting pitching this past year.

I would love a rotation of Konerko, Thome, and Frank Thomas in the 1B/DH roles. At least Paulie would then get a rest once in a while instead of playing 170 games a year. That rotation makes sense if Thomas comes cheap and there's still lingering doubts about their respective injuries.

I remember Tuffy Rhodes hitting three home runs during a Cubs opening day game. One game does not make a career, and it doesn't mean he's ready. I'll bet even Joe Borchard has had a good game at the major league level. Maybe Anderson is ready. Maybe he isn't. That's why they play the games.

Ol' No. 2
11-23-2005, 11:21 PM
I remember Tuffy Rhodes hitting three home runs during a Cubs opening day game. One game does not make a career, and it doesn't mean he's ready. I'll bet even Joe Borchard has had a good game at the major league level. Maybe Anderson is ready. Maybe he isn't. That's why they play the games.:LTP Two words: 504 feet. Tuffy Rhodes never hit one that far. They don't call me LTP for nothing.

Fake Chet Lemon
11-24-2005, 12:20 AM
Not a fan. I know of Thome's elbow problems, but hasn't he had back problems as well? Thome has been a Sox killer, and I think he will continue to kill the Sox even though he is on the team. I am afraid he will get injured, strike out a ton, or just be totally worthless, while Kenny will not be able to get rid of him. I hope I am wrong, but I am just not confident. And part of me thinks this is Sammy Sosa for George Bell part two.

Herm Schneider is a monster. I really think he is the best. I'm sure he was consulted and is confident Thome will be ready to go. Bo Jackson had no business playing professional sports again, but for Hermy. El Duque doesn't do what he did against Boston in the playoffs for any other team because he's probably on the shelf completely by seasons end with any other trainer. Just look at the guy, he's Mr. Health! He's our secret weapon!

Fake Chet Lemon
11-24-2005, 12:23 AM
I gave this trade an unqualified maybe. I don't think that this is the end of KW's dealing.

No doubt. Remember everyone after the Lee-Podsednik trade last year? We all knew there were more moves to do. Once they were made, it all made perfect sense. Gonna be a ditto this off-season. So change your vote to YES :D: !

fquaye149
11-24-2005, 12:24 AM
I remember Tuffy Rhodes hitting three home runs during a Cubs opening day game. One game does not make a career, and it doesn't mean he's ready. I'll bet even Joe Borchard has had a good game at the major league level. Maybe Anderson is ready. Maybe he isn't. That's why they play the games.

His bat may or not be ready. But defensively speaking he is an upgrade over Rowand. We did not give up defense, as you said. (I base this on the opinions of people much more knowledgable about Anderson's defense - for instance, Daver and the rest of the minor observationers) Speed is debatable as well - Rowand's SB numbers weren't great and his manufacturing abilities suffered due to his inability to bunt well.

I'll miss Rowand for what he brought to the field everyday, but the numbers he put up in all his years but 2004 were a little above average, and no more.

Flight #24
11-24-2005, 12:33 AM
We'll miss Rowand's attitude, and we certainly gave up 2 good pitching prospects. But looking at the org, Anderson/Young/Owens should be able to replace Aaron or come close, especially defensively. As for the pitching, neither Gio nor Haigwood was going to be ready until '07 at the earliest, at which point I'd wager KW is looking at his staff being already almost completely set with Buehrle/Garcia/Garland(resigned)/McCarthy. The wildcard is Contreras getting resigned/replaced.

So if you look to 2008, there are a whole host of other pitchers who ought to be arriving including Haeger, Broadway, Whisler, Lumsden, and maybe even Honel. So the only thing we really lost was depth, and for '06, we still have El Duque.

KW is making moves for short and long term, as Daver said - he's filling the org with talent and dealing from the areas of greatest surplus. And to date, he hasn't really been wrong in terms of which prospects he's given up.

TornLabrum
11-24-2005, 12:59 AM
No doubt. Remember everyone after the Lee-Podsednik trade last year? We all knew there were more moves to do. Once they were made, it all made perfect sense. Gonna be a ditto this off-season. So change your vote to YES :D: !

I will the minute the deal(s) get(s) done.

Tragg
11-24-2005, 01:03 AM
Are you sure? I know he's got that big board, but he's traded away a heckuva lot more prospects than he's traded for or given a chance to start. Kenny's always in win now mode. And honestly, now he should be, more than ever.
FWIW, Neal Cotts, a prospect Williams traded for, has probably accomplished more than any prospect he's traded away (I guess Fogg and Wells may be more accomplished as they pitched fair for 5 years).

Trading away prospects is a good thing, because you are getting something in return.
What are the alternatives?

Play them - were there any that could have made our team?
Trade them - get something for them
Leave them in the minors - that's not helping the ML club

And then realize that there are like a hundred rounds to the ML draft every year, so the system is constantly being infused. Minor league players aren't scarce - major league players are.

ChiSoxRowand
11-24-2005, 01:06 AM
We have to see what other moves are made in the coming weeks to really judge this trade. Right now I'm not too happy about it, and I didn't even know we gave up Gio because I have been at work for the past few hours, I knew we gave up Haigwood. If we still end up signing Paulie, this will end up being a great move, however I think this deal means the end of Paulie in a Sox uniform. One thing I think people are forgetting to mention is that we are adding a good lefthanded bat which we haven't had much of the past few years.

voodoochile
11-24-2005, 01:10 AM
I vote no on the poll...however I understand KW reason for this trade....The insurance for power hitting if PK does not return.....however I feel Aaron has yet to have his best season.

You honestly think he can have a better season than he did in 2004?

voodoochile
11-24-2005, 01:21 AM
I gave this trade an unqualified maybe. I don't think that this is the end of KW's dealing. I have a feeling there is another deal coming up that will follow up on this one. As it is we gave up speed and defense, and I don't know if Anderson makes up for either. As of now, I think we're weaker up the middle than we were 8 hours ago.

How much weaker is the question?

If Anderson can come close to matching Rowand's overall output and play a solid CF and Thome can come close to matching his career averages, the Sox are so much improved it's not even close to funny.

Heck, if Anderson can come close to living up to his hype, he might start the season batting second in front of Thome and that drops Gooch to 5th or 6th and AJ to 7th with the improving Crede batting 8th... :drool:

That lineup is easily a run a game better than last season and the pitching is ALL coming back at present. again... :drool:

KW just landed one of the top three bats on the trade market and if PK signs elsewhere, the Sox can always go to Frank as a backup plan at DH with Thome going back to 1B 4 days a week.

I cannot believe 20% of the respondents think ARow is that good and almost half the people who replied aren't sure this is a good trade. The only way it isn't is if Thome is injured and cannot play and you never make trades based on that assumption unless the guy is currently injured and Thome isn't.

I used to cuss and throw stuff at my TV set whenever Manuel would pitch to this guy because it would invariably lead to a 3-run jack and a Tribe victory. Now even older, he's still a force.

Great trade, KW. Keep it going.

Hey ESPN, you still think we aren't going to repeat? Sox are a PK signing from being the team to beat next year. Get it done...:cool:

filmnews
11-24-2005, 01:27 AM
I hate to see Aaron go. Read what he wrote on Whitesox.com. This is hard.:(:

I like this trade, if Thome is like his old self. He has been one of the most dominant players of the last decade. But, I hope he is not bothered by injury, like he was this year. But, I trust Kenny and he has done a unbelievable job the last few years. I think that this trade will work out great for the Sox's.:smile:

FarWestChicago
11-24-2005, 01:36 AM
Do you think defensive CF like Aaron grow on trees? :?: You act as if the White Sox gave up nothing.:?: You know, Randar always had a point about the "bad routes". He can be replaced. Great guy, all heart. But, he wasn't as good as many are making him out to be.

FarWestChicago
11-24-2005, 01:38 AM
Looks like I'm in the minority on this one. I don't care. I like Rowand and I'm worried that this move might affect team chemistry. Arow practically bleeds black & silver. Why trade him? We won a World Series with this guy! IF IT AIN'T BROKE DON'T FIX IT! I'm really bummed out!Because we won a half billion games by one run. That doesn't concern you? Aaron is a great guy, but he can't hit. We need to put some more runs up.

It's Time
11-24-2005, 01:38 AM
:?: You know, Randar always had a point about the "bad routes". He can be replaced. Great guy, all heart. But, he wasn't as good as many are making him out to be.

I didn't see him take too many bad routes at Yankee stadium. Not sure about Randar's "scouting report".

batmanZoSo
11-24-2005, 01:40 AM
Because we won a half billion games by one run. That doesn't concern you? Aaron is a great guy, but he can't hit. We need to put some more runs up.

Can't stress that enough. It just doesn't happen what we did last year with all those one-run wins. Or it doesn't happen from year to year. We needed a premier slugger on this team (40 homers, .400 on-base) and we got one if healthy.

soxfan1111
11-24-2005, 01:42 AM
:walnuts This trade is good as long as they can keep pauly too

FarWestChicago
11-24-2005, 01:45 AM
If Anderson can come close to matching Rowand's overall output and play a solid CF and Thome can come close to matching his career averages, the Sox are so much improved it's not even close to funny.In all of my years with this site, I have never see so many people overlook the obvious. Thank you for stating it so clearly, Voo. Lord knows Jjav and JRIG were trying to before they went off to duel. :D:

Nellie_Fox
11-24-2005, 01:57 AM
Couldn't you just make the choices "yes" and "no" without the "awesome" crap? I hate the overuse (and misuse) of that word. I don't like the trade, but not because I think Rowand is "awesome."

Tragg
11-24-2005, 02:06 AM
:?: You know, Randar always had a point about the "bad routes". He can be replaced. Great guy, all heart. But, he wasn't as good as many are making him out to be.
I read somewhere that he plays a deep CF, which allows him to get to more alley balls, but more balls fall in in front of him, which people tend to forget about. (like the leadoff batter in the bottom of the 9th in game 4 - that was an easier play than the 2 Uribe made).

It's not much of a test, but Anderson looked really smart in the field in Cleveland (only time I saw him play).

Domeshot17
11-24-2005, 02:06 AM
Voted Maybe. I love Kw, he brought us a championship, and hes ALWAYS willing to gamble, but we have had as many blow up in our faces as work out.

Could be the next Pods Deal, but Could be the next Todd Ritchie, David Wells, Robbie Alomar (we gave up Royce Ring for him).Giving up Gio and Haigwood could be tough.

My biggest fear is this could really mess up the chemistry the team had. Rowand was one of the most popular player's in the clubhouse and for the fans. He was one of the biggest Guys telling Crede to keep his head up and it was well known that Rowand was Crede's boy.

The one thing that is tough is the idea it is very easy to replace Rowands D. The worst thing Brian Anderson ever did was go yard 2 times off of Felix. that game made people not look at all the other games that he looked completely overmatched at the plate. Thats what scares me the most because there is a lot of pressure on Anderson now.

FarWestChicago
11-24-2005, 02:16 AM
The one thing that is tough is the idea it is very easy to replace Rowands D. The worst thing Brian Anderson ever did was go yard 2 times off of Felix. that game made people not look at all the other games that he looked completely overmatched at the plate. Thats what scares me the most because there is a lot of pressure on Anderson now.BFD, Rowand looked overmatched at the plate most of the season. What is wrong with you people? Take a deep breath.

35th St. Slick
11-24-2005, 03:36 AM
I agree that this trade is 'maybe a good move' until Kenny makes his other moves.

I heard Rowand on the radio with Jessie Rogers tonight. It was tugging at my heart. Aaron said 'he understands it's just a business' but he 'grew up' as a baseball player, having played in the minors with Crede, Buerhle and Garland. He then went on to say how great it's been with all the fans after the World Series victory, etc. He was VERY PROFESSIONAL about it, thanking the media, fans and White Sox organization, indicating that Chicago will always be in his heart.

He also went on to say that after speaking to Pat Gillick and the manager of the Phillies, it made him feel good that he's going to a team that WANTS him, and that has a good chance to make the playoffs.

This may be one of those trades like Carlos Lee, where it works out for both teams. The Phillies free up salary and can now push harder to sign their closing pitcher - and the Sox get that 'power hitting lefty' that has been elusive over the years.

C'mon Kenny... we're counting on you - get Paulie Konks signed, and we'll all feel much better.

Frater Perdurabo
11-24-2005, 08:22 AM
I read somewhere that he plays a deep CF, which allows him to get to more alley balls, but more balls fall in in front of him, which people tend to forget about. (like the leadoff batter in the bottom of the 9th in game 4 - that was an easier play than the 2 Uribe made).

It's not much of a test, but Anderson looked really smart in the field in Cleveland (only time I saw him play).

Outfielders who play deep do so because they don't have great range going back toward the wall. Playing deep gives them more time to chase down - and hopefully catch - balls hit into the gaps. This is their way of adjusting to prevent hard-hit balls from reaching the wall and going for extra bases. However, they tend to not be able to get to softly-hit balls that land in front of them. They tend to give up more singles.

The best defensive outfielders are good enough to play shallow because they have the speed and natural instincts to get back on deep fly balls and to get to hard-hit line drives hit into the gaps. This ability allows them to rob hitters of extra base hits and shallow ducksnort-like singles, too.

I'll never forget the first time I really noticed this in person. In 2002, the Sox were playing in Texas and Kenny Lofton was patrolling CF for the Sox. Lofton played very shallow, but time after time he took great routes to make catches deep into the deepest part of Ameriquest Field (then known as The Ballpark). He was good enough to make these difficult catches look routine. He also didn't have to dive to catch the softly-hit balls.

The reason Rowand looks so good when he makes a hustling, diving catch, is because he's playing too deep in the first place. So when he charges a softly-hit ball, he has to dive. Better defensive CFs make the play look routine. Rowand makes it an adventure.

Rowand is a great guy and he'll be missed. But Anderson will be more than an adequate replacement defensively. And in a year, Chris Young will make us all forget Aaaron Rowand.

Meanwhile, we'll get to see both Frank Thomas and Jim Thome hit their 500th homers in Sox uniforms. Book it.

:supernana:

TornLabrum
11-24-2005, 08:47 AM
How much weaker is the question?

If Anderson can come close to matching Rowand's overall output and play a solid CF and Thome can come close to matching his career averages, the Sox are so much improved it's not even close to funny.

Heck, if Anderson can come close to living up to his hype, he might start the season batting second in front of Thome and that drops Gooch to 5th or 6th and AJ to 7th with the improving Crede batting 8th... :drool:

That lineup is easily a run a game better than last season and the pitching is ALL coming back at present. again... :drool:

KW just landed one of the top three bats on the trade market and if PK signs elsewhere, the Sox can always go to Frank as a backup plan at DH with Thome going back to 1B 4 days a week.

I cannot believe 20% of the respondents think ARow is that good and almost half the people who replied aren't sure this is a good trade. The only way it isn't is if Thome is injured and cannot play and you never make trades based on that assumption unless the guy is currently injured and Thome isn't.

I used to cuss and throw stuff at my TV set whenever Manuel would pitch to this guy because it would invariably lead to a 3-run jack and a Tribe victory. Now even older, he's still a force.

Great trade, KW. Keep it going.

Hey ESPN, you still think we aren't going to repeat? Sox are a PK signing from being the team to beat next year. Get it done...:cool:

I can see every one of your points. That's why my vote was a maybe. My fear is that Anderson is as untested at the major league level as Joe Borchard was a few years ago. The good news is that Anderson's minor league numbers are a whole lot better than Borchard's. How much weaker (or even stronger we are is dependent on a rookie centerfielder.

Jim Thome is 35 years old and coming off a season-ending injury. As with many Williams deals, he is gambling In this case the gamble is that Thome will come back to something at least close to his pre-injury form.

I agree with the "keep it going part." As I said in my post, I don't think this is an isolated deal. I believe Williams things of this as one piece of the puzzle he's putting together for next year's team, and I expect a deal or two to clarify his direction for next year.

Right now Thome appears to be a replacement for either Konerko or Thomas, depending on future circumstances. My guess is that Williams feels that Konerko will be back and Thomas won't.

Optipessimism
11-24-2005, 10:37 AM
I don't think you can really judge this deal for at least another 2-3 years once Gio and Haigwood have shown if they are for real, but I think if Thome comes here and hits 30-40 HR's with a decent BA he will be worth the price even if one of our former prospects becomes a star. If one of both of the prospects we sent to Philly become anything from busts to somewhat decent but unspectacular ML pitchers, I think this is becomes a steal for us considering the amount of money that Philly is eating.

voodoochile
11-24-2005, 10:46 AM
I don't think you can really judge this deal for at least another 2-3 years once Gio and Haigwood have shown if they are for real, but I think if Thome comes here and hits 30-40 HR's with a decent BA he will be worth the price even if one of our former prospects becomes a star. If one of both of the prospects we sent to Philly become anything from busts to somewhat decent but unspectacular ML pitchers, I think this is becomes a steal for us considering the amount of money that Philly is eating.

So if the Sox with an improved offense as a result of Thome putting up .305, 45, 135 stomp their way into the playoffs winning 105 games and then obliterate everything in their path going 11-1 or12-0, you still won't be able to judge the trade? *****...:rolleyes:

Ol' No. 2
11-24-2005, 10:54 AM
Couldn't you just make the choices "yes" and "no" without the "awesome" crap? I hate the overuse (and misuse) of that word. I don't like the trade, but not because I think Rowand is "awesome."Awesome post, dude.:wink:

35th St. Slick
11-24-2005, 11:01 AM
I don't think you can really judge this deal for at least another 2-3 years once Gio and Haigwood have shown if they are for real, but I think if Thome comes here and hits 30-40 HR's with a decent BA he will be worth the price even if one of our former prospects becomes a star. If one of both of the prospects we sent to Philly become anything from busts to somewhat decent but unspectacular ML pitchers, I think this is becomes a steal for us considering the amount of money that Philly is eating.

Quit making so much damned sense Optipessimism! This 'MTV/ESPN' world we live in today is all about immediate reactions. ....and seeing as we have so much depth at starting pitching - 6 deep at the MLB level, I can't say I really agree with you. Kenny is trying to string together another World Series or two.

Do you think the Cubs deal for Alfonseco (aka Mr. High Six) was a bust trade? They dealt Dontrelle Willis. Then again the Cubs got Clement, and elected to let him walk. I think that deal worked out for both ball clubs.

HawkISox
11-24-2005, 01:32 PM
Thome is a washed up has been over 35 years old, with no steroids, that means a washed up player. We gave away an excellent outfielder, developed through the Sox system, and traded him for a has been so the Sox can become the Red Sox and Yankees now and get ESPN star power.

I think it ****ing sucks, big time.

Lip Man 1
11-24-2005, 01:52 PM
One point that hasn't been discussed much is the fact that this may not be the end of the dealing. Juan Pierre is probably out there and who knows who else.

You can't realistically 'judge' this move under the lineup is set and spring training begins. The Sox now have more money to work with regarding Konerko and the possibility still exist depending on the market for either Thomas or Everett returning at a potential bargin basement price.

Regarding HawkIsSox comment on the White Sox becomming the Yankees and Red Sox that's exactly what I want.

I'd love for the organization to make the playoffs every year or four out of every six years. It sure as hell beats once every ten years.

Give Williams credit for having the stones to not rest on his accomplishments. I think this deal will work out well.

Lip

Frankfan4life
11-24-2005, 02:23 PM
Looks to me like a bad trade. Rowand was a big part of the soul of the team. Thome is another Frank Thomas. Once great, maybe again, but not healthy and in any case one-dimensional. I think this means the Sox have given up on Frank, no? Key may be the $20MM. If they use that to pick up some speed and defense it will be OK. But wait, that's what they gave up. Makes no sense to me.

Also seems to be based on a lot of faith in Anderson. We'll see.

.A lot of people seem to forget the big drop-off Konerko had in 2003. I remember a lot of fans were down on him that year. What if the Sox had traded him in 2004 because of that? Rowand had a drop-off this year and he didn't perform very well in the WS. It happens. I think he's a solid player who gives 100% out there and he will bounce back to his 2004 form. Well, at least the Phillies believe that.

I'm not saying that Anderson won't be as good. How he will do at the ML level is unknown at this point but he is younger and has a chance of developing into a solid ball-player. Maybe we could have traded Anderson for Thome instead of Rowand? It might have even saved us a prospect. I'll probably get some flack for saying that but a lot is going to be riding on Anderson to peform well and to fit in with the team and the fans chemistry-wise. I really hope he does.

Taliesinrk
11-24-2005, 02:32 PM
Meanwhile, we'll get to see both Frank Thomas and Jim Thome hit their 500th homers in Sox uniforms. Book it.

:supernana:

I'd like to book it believe me.. but what makes you think that Frank'll be back? I mean are you guessing PK won't resign now?

FarWestChicago
11-24-2005, 02:36 PM
Give Williams credit for having the stones to not rest on his accomplishments. I think this deal will work out well.

Lip:thumbsup:

Fuller_Schettman
11-24-2005, 03:11 PM
I am surprised at how many folks are violating the Cardinal Sin of baseball fan-nessism: NEVER, EVER fall in love with a baseball player. Not in this free agency age. Otherwise you end up like those Maggs-lovers. It sucks, but it is all about The Machine, not a single cog in The Machine but The Machine in whole.

Yeah, we will all miss Rowand. He really typified what this team was about, but this is business (and business is good) and I trust KW knows what he needs to do.

TheOldRoman
11-24-2005, 03:27 PM
BFD, Rowand looked overmatched at the plate most of the season. What is wrong with you people? Take a deep breath.
I don't know if you are taking names, West, but you are certainly kicking ass.:D:

I agree that this is a great trade. I will miss Rowand. From what I have heard, Anderson can play as good as Rowand in CF, if not better. If that is the case, everything will be fine. Anderson will get better as a hitter as he matures, but with Thome mashing the ball, we can afford to have Anderson hitting .230 the first year. Rowand didnt give us all that much offensively in 05, either.

Also, I am really pissed about all this "injury riddled" crap about Thome. He had one friggin injury. So many people hear one thing, or take it out of context, and believe it as fact because it is repeated so much. An example is people believing AJ Burnett being a huge injury risk. He had one big injury (Tommy John), and had been healthy since then. This is also like people saying USCF is in a dangerous neighborhood (Im not saying that is people on this board). These sheep will say it is a ghetto, people get killed there, bullet holes are in the upperdeck seats from the highrises, etc. The half truths and flat out lies are repeated so much that some clowns believe them as fact. Oh yeah, same as people repeating that Garcia is a flyball pitcher. Thome is an injury risk, but so is anyone that steps on the field. He is not more likely than anyone else to reinjure his elbow. This is not Frank Thomas' ankle. He has put up great number his whole career. He will put up great numbers again when healthy. If he is healthy for the great majority of the next three years, this will look like a complete steal.

Deadguy
11-24-2005, 03:28 PM
I love the trade.

If Frank can't be back, I'm glad Thome is at least taking his place.

He has a career .970 OPS, is right alongside Frank as being one of the most fan friendly in all of baseball, he has 17 career post season homeruns, and the man is clutch (10 Career walk off homeruns).

You couldn't ask for a much better player or a person.

Here's to one of the classiest guys in the game, and here's to getting that ring that you couldn't get with the Toons! :gulp:

Norberto7
11-25-2005, 12:38 AM
I know a lot of people around here don't care about this, but one of the positives, (or psuedopositives, I guess) of the move is that it keeps the Sox more interesting and relevant for the rest of the offseason and throughout the next year. Standing pat is blah; it gives the casual baseball fan a reason, if they didn't care/watch/follow the Sox in '05, to not watch the Sox in '06.

But, this being the gamble that it is, it makes the '06 Sox a more intruiging bunch. It's not just another blase WS defending champion, but one that has taken a risk by (potentially) starting a rookie up the middle and trading for a marquee player coming off of serious injury.

As if we needed another reason to watch? :D:

Nellie_Fox
11-25-2005, 01:11 AM
Also, I am really pissed about all this "injury riddled" crap about Thome. He had one friggin injury. ...He is not more likely than anyone else to reinjure his elbow. This is not Frank Thomas' ankle. I'm not worried about his elbow. He also had a back problem. Back problems are far more likely to be nagging.

Frank tried to come back too soon. There is no reason to believe one way or the other as to which guy is more likely to return to form, and with the buyout of Frank's contract and the portion of Thome's contract the Sox are responsible for, it ends up costing the same as if they'd have just paid Frank's option, and they could have paid Frank's option and resigned him for less. Why is it that another team's healing slugger looks so much more attractive than our own? Frank's career numbers are better than Thome's in almost every category.

Nellie_Fox
11-25-2005, 01:13 AM
Awesome post, dude.:wink:My post inspired a mixture of fear and respect in you? Cool! :D:

pearso66
11-25-2005, 01:19 AM
To everyone who is saying this will hurt team chemistry because Rowand was good in the clubhouse. I have heard reports that Thome is one of the best teamates to have. I don't think it will hurt it at all. And for the record, I answered maybe, but I do like the potential of this trade.

Ron Karkovice
11-25-2005, 03:05 AM
I'm praying for a healthy Thome to go 275/37/120 and a gold glove aaron rowand to have career numbers offensively in Philly for next year.

ma-gaga
11-25-2005, 03:16 AM
Couldn't you just make the choices "yes" and "no" without the "awesome" crap? I hate the overuse (and misuse) of that word. I don't like the trade, but not because I think Rowand is "awesome."

Yes. I could have qualified this with a couple of more "maybe" statements as well. I'm sure if I gave an option like:

"I'll miss Aaron, but if Thome plays in 300 games in the next 2 years, they resign Konerko, the two minor leaguers bust out, and we win the next two World Series..."

or simpler:

"yes, but I'm concerned with Thome's health"

It would get 95% of the vote. :cool: For the record I voted "no", but not because Rowand is awesome either.

TornLabrum
11-25-2005, 08:55 AM
I'm not worried about his elbow. He also had a back problem. Back problems are far more likely to be nagging.

Frank tried to come back too soon. There is no reason to believe one way or the other as to which guy is more likely to return to form, and with the buyout of Frank's contract and the portion of Thome's contract the Sox are responsible for, it ends up costing the same as if they'd have just paid Frank's option, and they could have paid Frank's option and resigned him for less. Why is it that another team's healing slugger looks so much more attractive than our own? Frank's career numbers are better than Thome's in almost every category.

Considering that (according to what I've read) Frank's stress fracture is of the same bone as his original injury, and considering Frank's size, I'd say that the Thome trade was a good idea. He and Frank are about the same age, but imho it is Frank who is going to have the more difficult time coming back from his injury.

I heard Kenny Williams saying that the problem now with Frank is that nobody really knows what's going to happen with his ankle. They need Thome in case Frank can't come back. He's the type of player the DH was invented for: aging slugger who can save wear and tear on himself and a position player by DHing most of the time and playing defense a game or two a week.

The only thing that bothers me in the least about this trade (and I'm repeating myself, so I apologize) is that we really don't know what Anderson will do as a major league player, assuming that Anderson is the player who will replace Rowand.

voodoochile
11-25-2005, 09:21 AM
For the record I voted "no", but not because Rowand is awesome either.

WOOHOOO!!!! :D:

Take THAT Twinkie fans...:wink:

voodoochile
11-25-2005, 09:23 AM
Considering that (according to what I've read) Frank's stress fracture is of the same bone as his original injury, and considering Frank's size, I'd say that the Thome trade was a good idea. He and Frank are about the same age, but imho it is Frank who is going to have the more difficult time coming back from his injury.

I heard Kenny Williams saying that the problem now with Frank is that nobody really knows what's going to happen with his ankle. They need Thome in case Frank can't come back. He's the type of player the DH was invented for: aging slugger who can save wear and tear on himself and a position player by DHing most of the time and playing defense a game or two a week.

The only thing that bothers me in the least about this trade (and I'm repeating myself, so I apologize) is that we really don't know what Anderson will do as a major league player, assuming that Anderson is the player who will replace Rowand.

Yes, but Rowand is also merely a #7 hitter and might have even ended up batting 8th this year is the pre and post injury Joe Crede shows up for 2006 (how cool would THAT be?!?).

So the one question marks seems to be defense and if push comes to shove, they can put Timo out there and bat him 9th and the Sox will still have a better offense than last year with little to no loss in defense.

Frater Perdurabo
11-25-2005, 10:53 AM
I'd like to book it believe me.. but what makes you think that Frank'll be back? I mean are you guessing PK won't resign now?

Of course it depends on if Frank truly recovers. He can't play if he can't get healthy, obviously.

But last June and July (until Frank went down again), Ozzie found a way to get Konerko, Everett and Frank enough plate appearances to keep them all happy. The increased their AL Central lead from six games to 15 games during that span. (That proved to be the "insurance" they needed to withstand a .500 spell that coincided with Cleveland's insane charge.)

Thome replaces Everett, but instead of being rather poor outfielder like Everett, Thome can play first base to spell Konerko if Konerko does return. Ozzie pushed Konerko to the limit last year because when Frank was hurt; there was no other power hitter who was accustomed to playing first base. With Thome, Ozzie can give Konerko some games off.

Thome replaces both Everett AND Ross Gload. There's an EXTRA roster spot now. Of course there is room for Frank if he's healthy.

Also, as loyal as Jerry Reinsdorf is, he will find a way to pay Frank Thomas just to keep him around.

soxfanatlanta
11-25-2005, 11:16 AM
I'm praying for a healthy Thome to go 275/37/120 and a gold glove aaron rowand to have career numbers offensively in Philly for next year.

+1

Especially on the Thome part!

MVP
11-25-2005, 11:43 AM
If Thome is healthy, which I hear he is, this trade makes sense for both teams. I like the move. We have several outfielders in the minors (Anderson, Owens and Chris Young) who are ready to step up. Of course Rowand will be missed on the field and in the clubhouse, but Thome is considered a great clubhouse guy himself. Standing pat means moving backwards so I'm glad to see KW is staying aggressive in trying to help us repeat. This is not KW's last move either.

ChicagoHoosier
11-25-2005, 12:17 PM
Have to say maybe only because we need Thome to produce and stay out of injury-trouble to make this a good deal. But at first glance, I think it was a wise move on our part.

MeanFish
11-25-2005, 12:19 PM
I wish people would stop saying that this trade hinges on Gonzalez and Haigwood not becoming good major league players. It doesn't.

As a team sitting on six quality starting pitchers at the major league level and a handful of solid eventual possibilities in the minors, there's no reason to think that we can't trade away talent whether they pan out or not.

I for one hope they do, crazy as that sounds. That makes our other pitching prospects more valuable. For proof of this phenomenon, just look at the often undeserved attention that was given to Cubs pitching prospects over the last few years following the successes of Prior and Wood.

A strong minor league system is a powerful tool. There's a certain mystique to it.

Lprof
11-25-2005, 05:23 PM
The only issue, to me, is his health, and I have to have trust in Kenny's ability to judge that. If he is healthy, the deal is a no-brainer: It is insurance if Konerko doesn't come back, and gives us a top left handed power hitting DH if Konerko does come back. Rowand is eminently replaceable. His defense was (usually) very good, but his hitting and base running were below par. The kid pitchers worry me, but those minor leaguers are always a crap shoot; I am still waiting for Richard Wortham and Scott Rufcorn (sp?) to come through. In any event, neither was going to help us next year. There is no reason we shouldn't have a good shot next year, and the only World Series you can win is the next one. Without adding some hitting in the middle of the lineup, I didn't see us repeating. Our hitting was just too anemic. Somehow, we dodger the bullet last year, but Kenny wisely recognized something had to be done. Of the current starters Rowand was by far the most expendable.


I heard a Philly reporter say on the SCORE today that Rowand would probably bat second--Huh?? He can't bunt, he strikes out, he is a terrible base runner, and with a man on first he often kills rallies by hitting into double plays. With all that, I admired and respect his grit; he was a true grinder. But you have to give up something to get something, and at least one of the three minor league outfielders should probably come through. Congrats to Kenny for attempting to keep us up there (the ghost of Roy Sievers to the contrary notwithstanding). (How about THIS idea: signing Kenny Lofton, as a fourth outfielder/pinch runner/insurance if the kids don't make it in center?).

Ol' No. 2
11-25-2005, 06:15 PM
The only issue, to me, is his health, and I have to have trust in Kenny's ability to judge that. If he is healthy, the deal is a no-brainer: It is insurance if Konerko doesn't come back, and gives us a top left handed power hitting DH if Konerko does come back. Rowand is eminently replaceable. His defense was (usually) very good, but his hitting and base running were below par. The kid pitchers worry me, but those minor leaguers are always a crap shoot; I am still waiting for Richard Wortham and Scott Rufcorn (sp?) to come through. In any event, neither was going to help us next year. There is no reason we shouldn't have a good shot next year, and the only World Series you can win is the next one. Without adding some hitting in the middle of the lineup, I didn't see us repeating. Our hitting was just too anemic. Somehow, we dodger the bullet last year, but Kenny wisely recognized something had to be done. Of the current starters Rowand was by far the most expendable.


I heard a Philly reporter say on the SCORE today that Rowand would probably bat second--Huh?? He can't bunt, he strikes out, he is a terrible base runner, and with a man on first he often kills rallies by hitting into double plays. With all that, I admired and respect his grit; he was a true grinder. But you have to give up something to get something, and at least one of the three minor league outfielders should probably come through. Congrats to Kenny for attempting to keep us up there (the ghost of Roy Sievers to the contrary notwithstanding). (How about THIS idea: signing Kenny Lofton, as a fourth outfielder/pinch runner/insurance if the kids don't make it in center?).Rowand hit very well for the Sox in 2004 at the top of the order. I don't believe that was a fluke. His main weakness is in strike zone judgement. Most of the time he got himself out by swinging at pitches out of the zone. But you're going to get a different mix of pitches hitting 1 or 2 than you will hitting 6 or 7. It might work fine.

Flight #24
11-25-2005, 06:57 PM
A lot of people seem to forget the big drop-off Konerko had in 2003. I remember a lot of fans were down on him that year. What if the Sox had traded him in 2004 because of that? Rowand had a drop-off this year and he didn't perform very well in the WS. It happens. I think he's a solid player who gives 100% out there and he will bounce back to his 2004 form. Well, at least the Phillies believe that.



Not every player who has a down year rebounds. Sometimes, guys put up fluke years. I don't pretend to have watched Rowand in the minors, but many who have have said that his 2005 was much more inline with his prior performance than his 2004. Regardless, his intangibles were great along with his D, those will be missed. In many ways, Aaron was face of the Sox locally because he was the guy you'd see out and about, be it Bears/Bulls games or helping promote the DVD, etc.

But luckily, Thome provides some pretty strong intangibles and Anderson some pretty strong D as well.

soxfanreggie
11-25-2005, 07:24 PM
I, like many others, voted maybe. If Thome can hit like he did 2 years ago and before, then yes, he is a good acquisition. However, if he is on the way down, it will be a horrible deal for us. We knew what we had an are taking a chance on a recovery. However, after receiving a nice WS trophy, I'm not going to argue with KW.

GeauxSox
11-25-2005, 07:44 PM
Because we won a half billion games by one run. That doesn't concern you? Aaron is a great guy, but he can't hit. We need to put some more runs up.

In my opinion, this is the key point. We just can't expect to win all those close games again. I don't think I could take it either!


And I love KW signing another former Sox killer. Dye and Thome are worth 6-8 games in the win column sitting in the dugout. (Thome would have likely gone to another American league team.) If we don't keep Paulie, maybe he can sign Sweeney too. :smile:

cubkilla#1soxfan
11-30-2005, 05:53 AM
Do you like the deal being reported:

A.Rowand + 2 minor leaguers for J.Thome and $20MM+?

Hell no!

Brian Anderson is Major League Ready?

I know for a fact he doesn't play center field as good as aaron rowand. Oh by the way if you have to trade the games best fielding center fielder for a 35 year old aging 1st baseman, then that means that you have no faith in ross gload or rogowski which is a shame because anderson a prospect had a factor in to this trade. Another thing Gload had 7hrs and 44rbis with a .321 average in only 110 AB's. If you multiply those statistics by 6 that means he can easily be one of the best 1b or lf in baseball. They just gave up too much!

voodoochile
11-30-2005, 10:22 AM
Hell no!

Brian Anderson is Major League Ready?

I know for a fact he doesn't play center field as good as aaron rowand. Oh by the way if you have to trade the games best fielding center fielder for a 35 year old aging 1st baseman, then that means that you have no faith in ross gload or rogowski which is a shame because anderson a prospect had a factor in to this trade. Another thing Gload had 7hrs and 44rbis with a .321 average in only 110 AB's. If you multiply those statistics by 6 that means he can easily be one of the best 1b or lf in baseball. They just gave up too much!

:rolleyes:

Those Gload stats are pure fiction. He has 9 HR in 338 CAREER AB. and hit .167 in 42 AB last year. Are you looking at his AAA stats?

If Anderson fails to get it done inn CF, they can run Timo out there, bat him 9th and still be a better team than last year.

Frater Perdurabo
11-30-2005, 10:27 AM
If Anderson fails to get it done inn CF, they can run Timo out there, bat him 9th and still be a better team than last year.

You can't be serious about Timo as the first-option "fallback plan." :o:

If Anderson combines a horrible batting average and OBP in the 9-hole and defensively is a combination of Rob Deer and Stevie Wonder in CF, then I'd start Borchard in CF over Timo.
:D:

voodoochile
11-30-2005, 10:32 AM
You can't be serious about Timo as the first-option "fallback plan." :o:

If Anderson combines a horrible batting average and OBP in the 9-hole and defensively is a combination of Rob Deer and Stevie Wonder in CF, then I'd start Borchard in CF over Timo.
:D:

It matters not to me which of those guys gets run out there if Anderson fails. Yes, I think Timo would be okay out there. Probably hit about .230 with some pop and play solid defense over the course of the season, especially once he got comfortable.