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Vernam
11-23-2005, 06:04 PM
In the Rowand-Thome trade thread, DSpivack suggested:

Re-sign Paulie and look at our offense:

1. Podsednik
2. Anderson
3. Thome
4. Konerko
5. Dye
6. Iguchi
7. Pierzynski
8. Crede
9. Uribe
That's intriguing. My quibble is that batting Anderson second would put a lot of pressure on the kid. It calls for situational hitting that he's probably never been called upon to do -- not that he couldn't/shouldn't learn, but on-the-job training for the defending World Champs is a tough row to hoe. For argument's sake, let's say the Sox wouldn't put him in that situation. That would probably mean Iguchi has to stay in the 2-slot. OR it would mean that KW is not done dealing.

To speculate further, if Crede keeps hitting as he did after returning from the broken finger, no way is he a #8 hitter. Now, maybe what I said about Anderson applies equally to Crede; he might do better lower in the order, but he's been around long enough that it's time for him to step up. But he's too slow to bat second. I don't predict the following, but I'd love to see it:

1. Podsednik
2. Dye
3. Thome
4. Konerko
5. Iguchi
6. Crede
7. Pierzynski
8. Anderson
9. Uribe

Jermaine's situational hitting in the playoffs was exemplary, capped off by that long at-bat where he ruined Oswalt. He's relatively fast, or at least not a base-clogger like Crede.

Thome is great insurance against losing Konerko, but we'd still be dependent on Frank's health or another trade. Assuming Frank comes back, I'd just put him fourth in place of Konerko. If Frank couldn't come back, there'd have to be another trade for someone with pop. The only way KW would have the luxury of going for speed instead is if they think Iguchi is a three or four, which I don't think he is, just as I don't think Jermaine is a three. Does anyone see Crede moving to three if Paulie and Frank are gone?

Vernam

MERPER
11-23-2005, 06:08 PM
I loved Aaron and love the way he plays the game, but this is a business and you need to go buy the buy low/sell high method... he is at his peak in terms of trade value and with a plethora of young outfield talent was expendable...

If we were to fall so much in love with each player on this team we would never improve... That being said, I think Konerko will be back, especially with the Mets now out of the running for him...

This means Frank Thomas is likely the odd man out and this is where I have a real problem... he NEEDS to finish his career on the south side and be a part of the ring ceremony during game 2.... seeing him in any other uniform as he chases 500 would be too hard to deal with... it's already bringing me to :whiner:

Does anyone else know what the current standing is with him? Are we completely done negotiating with Frank?

Daver
11-23-2005, 06:08 PM
The thread continues (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=62627).

shaunburnette
11-23-2005, 06:11 PM
I somehow missed this news completely until 5 minutes ago. Is it just Rowand for Thome?

ViPeRx007
11-23-2005, 06:12 PM
Forgive me if I'm a bit behind in the discussion, but I've read a few places that say we gave the Phillies 2 prospects as well? Yet on MLB.com, espn.com, etc. they just say Thome + cash for Rowand...

Are there prospects involved or not?

SouthSoxFan
11-23-2005, 06:13 PM
Why didn't we do this deal for the far superior Delgado since the Mets gave only 2 prospects for him. Or why did we have to give up more talent for the inferior player?

$15 million. The Marlins did not pick up very much of Delgado's salary.

ChiSoxIn06
11-23-2005, 06:18 PM
1. Pods
2. Iguchi
3. Thome
4. Konerko
5. Dye
6. AJ
7. Crede
8. Anderson
9. Uribe

with this lineup u alternate Lefties and Righties through the first 7 spots which prevent the opposing pitcher into getting a groove against Righties or Lefties.

HotelWhiteSox
11-23-2005, 06:19 PM
Farmer was just on the Score, he said he's known Thome for 14 years, he said he's at 100% and has already passed his physical, so that part of the trade is a done deal. The talk about his back are very exaggerated, and he fixed his shoulder with the surgery or whatever he had done

SouthSoxFan
11-23-2005, 06:19 PM
Forgive me if I'm a bit behind in the discussion, but I've read a few places that say we gave the Phillies 2 prospects as well? Yet on MLB.com, espn.com, etc. they just say Thome + cash for Rowand...

Are there prospects involved or not?
Sox web site says yes to prospects. I have to believe that's true. Not likely the Phillies would give us Thome at half-price just for Rowand.

Also, did anyone catch that Thome could be under contract for 2009 (4th year) at $13 million. There's a club option for '09, that becomes guaranteed if he meets some hurdle based on ABs. I wonder if that's entirely on our dime?

Tragg
11-23-2005, 06:21 PM
$15 million. The Marlins did not pick up very much of Delgado's salary.
That explains it. Then I hope we're in that $85 mill range PLUS that $15 million divided by the term of his contract in payroll this year. That should mean signing 2 more prime FAs.

Chips
11-23-2005, 06:22 PM
CHIPS GIVES THIS TRADE TWO THUMBS UP.:supernana:

Hitmen77
11-23-2005, 06:22 PM
Ya know, I used to really love Kenny's "Win Now" attitude and didn't mind when he traded away the Sox farm system. After all, the Sox hadn't won a WS in 88 years. But now that they have won it all, I don't feel the same sense of urgency to win another. Obviously as a fan I would love to see the Sox go back-to-back in 2006, but at what cost?

I don't get the comment that we "traded away our farm system". Which of these prospects that we traded away have turned out to be great - or even good- major league players?

Blueprint1
11-23-2005, 06:22 PM
$15 million. The Marlins did not pick up very much of Delgado's salary.

I was going to post this. The Mets are going to pay delgado a lot of money. The Marlins are looking to cut their payrole.

HITMEN OF 77
11-23-2005, 06:27 PM
For those who were alive then or those who are up on there White Sox history, this trade reminds me of when the Sox got another ex Indians slugger Rocky Colavito in hopes to bolster there lineup and HR performance. It didn't work. Colavito was older and injury prone, much the way I look at Thome. 4-5 years ago this would have been a decent move, now I think it stinks. A gold glove caliber outfielder with good speed and hitting for an overated injured power hitter?? :angry:

DSpivack
11-23-2005, 06:29 PM
For those who were alive then or those who are up on there White Sox history, this trade reminds me of when the Sox got another ex Indians slugger Rocky Colavito in hopes to bolster there lineup and HR performance. It didn't work. Colavito was older and injury prone, much the way I look at Thome. 4-5 years ago this would have been a decent move, now I think it stinks. A gold glove caliber outfielder with good speed and hitting for an overated injured power hitter?? :angry:

Thome was injured once--last season. How does that make someone "injury prone" ?

Frankfan4life
11-23-2005, 06:30 PM
I wrote this really heartfelt post in the other thread about how I felt about the Rowand trade but I lost it because I couldn't post it. Now, I'm really bummed out.

In short, having Thome is OK, getting rid of Rowand, not OK.

My heart goes out to Aaron. I know this hurts him more than it does us. I wish him well and I hope this turns out to be a good move for everyone concerned. But, this is not a good day.

Hitmen77
11-23-2005, 06:30 PM
Sorry if this was already discussed in this thread, but can someone explain the nature of Thome's injury: What did he injure, is this a recurring problem, what is the liklihood of recovery (meaning return to old form) from this injury?

ViPeRx007
11-23-2005, 06:32 PM
Sox web site says yes to prospects. I have to believe that's true. Not likely the Phillies would give us Thome at half-price just for Rowand.

Also, did anyone catch that Thome could be under contract for 2009 (4th year) at $13 million. There's a club option for '09, that becomes guaranteed if he meets some hurdle based on ABs. I wonder if that's entirely on our dime?

What prospects exactly? Because that would probably turn my opinion of the trade depending on who they are...

I can't see it being anybody TOO major...I mean, Thome's good, but he's also in the latter stages of his career to be giving Philly too much youth..

DSpivack
11-23-2005, 06:38 PM
What prospects exactly? Because that would probably turn my opinion of the trade depending on who they are...

I can't see it being anybody TOO major...I mean, Thome's good, but he's also in the latter stages of his career to be giving Philly too much youth..

Gio Gonzalez and Daniel Haigwood.

KRS1
11-23-2005, 06:39 PM
Well, it's not totally official but the offical site has both of them gone with Rowand. Just a shoddy trade IMO. I'm sure I'll get called out for this by some KW apologists, but Kenny is not invincible and he definitely showed that here, we got fleeced my friends.

"The White Sox also will pay $24 million of the remaining $46 million on Thome's contract over the next three years, with the Phillies picking up highly-touted pitching prospects in Gio Gonzalez and Daniel Haigwood to complete the deal. When reached Wednesday evening, general manager Ken Williams would not comment directly on the proposed trade."

Frankfan4life
11-23-2005, 06:45 PM
Well, it's not totally official but the offical site has both of them gone with Rowand. Just a shoddy trade IMO. I'm sure I'll get called out for this by some KW apologists, but Kenny is not invincible and he definitely showed that here, we got fleeced my friends.

"The White Sox also will pay $24 million of the remaining $46 million on Thome's contract over the next three years, with the Phillies picking up highly-touted pitching prospects in Gio Gonzalez and Daniel Haigwood to complete the deal. When reached Wednesday evening, general manager Ken Williams would not comment directly on the proposed trade."Unbelievable! Now, I really hate this trade. Why, Kenny, why? Now, if Frank and Konerko don't come back...:angry:

AZSoxFAN
11-23-2005, 06:48 PM
For those who were alive then or those who are up on there White Sox history, this trade reminds me of when the Sox got another ex Indians slugger Rocky Colavito in hopes to bolster there lineup and HR performance. It didn't work. Colavito was older and injury prone, much the way I look at Thome. 4-5 years ago this would have been a decent move, now I think it stinks. A gold glove caliber outfielder with good speed and hitting for an overated injured power hitter?? :angry:

I tend to agree. Getting a big bopper after surgery is always a crap shoot, especially someone Jims age. On the bright side he's a quality guy, and will be a net plus in the cluhouse.

ilsox7
11-23-2005, 06:50 PM
Unbelievable! Now, I really hate this trade. Why, Kenny, why? Now, if Frank and Konerko don't come back...:angry:

It's called a typo. They are sending us money.

Good trade. Rowand was easily the most expendable guy and prospects are just that, prospects. I'll officially go on record as liking this trade, just as I did last year with the Pods trade. This looks especially good assuming PK is back, which seems more likely with the Delgado deal.

eurotrash35
11-23-2005, 06:55 PM
good trade. I was initially against it but have since come to my senses.

halfpricemonday
11-23-2005, 06:58 PM
Good to know it was a typo, since the Sox paying the Phillies didn't seem to make any sense at all. I was wondering about the cash considerations in the first part of the thread, but I must be on people's ignore list since no one seemed to be was confused by it as I was.

<Buddy from Night Court>
But I'm feeling MUCH better now!
</Buddy from Night Court>

PAPChiSox729
11-23-2005, 07:00 PM
I am still a little weary of the trade. I think overall I like it. But seeing Aaron in a Phillies' uniform would be pretty weird. And seeing Thomas anywhere else would be really weird. But I guess once I get past that, I'll love having Thome. If this guy is back at 100%, then we have that LH power we were asking for. Anyone want Huff still?

:tongue:

rowand33
11-23-2005, 07:05 PM
I choose to think we'll get Juan Pierre and Konerko to make the lineup look like this:

Pods-LF
Pierre-CF
Konerko-1B
Thome-DH
Dye-RF
AJ-C
Iguchi-2B
Crede-3B
Uribe-SS

and then we start up the dynasty.

Tragg
11-23-2005, 07:09 PM
It wasn't a typo. We aren't sending money to Philly, but we are paying $24 mill, or whatever, of Thome's contract. It just so happens that it is around $13 mill a year - Philly's picking up the rest.
The key is what Kenny does with the rest of the available budget this year. $$ seems to be the key in all of our trades.

broker3d
11-23-2005, 07:10 PM
Pauly is NOT batting 3rd.

Based on our current roster:

Pods
Iguchi (may go to 6th if KW gets a new #2)
Dye
Thome
Konerko
AJ
Crede
Anderson
Uribe

DaleJRFan
11-23-2005, 07:13 PM
Thome looks good in a Sox UNI....

http://www.lucidnoir.com/pictures/thome.jpg

hose
11-23-2005, 07:18 PM
I like the trade.

Huge upgrade for the left side of the plate.

Anderson will be an excellent centerfielder ,no loss there. Might be a bit of a downgrade from Rowand's power . Could possibly end up being a push.

Didn't have to give up any pitching besides prospects and got cash considerations from Philly.

The only bummer is that it could mean the end of the Big Hurts career with the Sox.:(:

The great American Hero's reign has begun in Chicago......I think the fans are going to love this guy.:cool:

VivaOzzie
11-23-2005, 07:18 PM
Pauly is NOT batting 3rd.

Based on our current roster:

Pods
Iguchi (may go to 6th if KW gets a new #2)
Dye
Thome
Konerko
AJ
Crede
Anderson
Uribe

And Paulie is NOT batting 5th. He'll bat 4th (hoping we can get him back). Thome and Dye will go 3rd and 5th, either or.

VivaOzzie
11-23-2005, 07:20 PM
Thome looks good in a Sox UNI....

http://www.lucidnoir.com/pictures/thome.jpg

:rolling:

Wow, we have way too much time on our hands! I love it :gulp:

Frankfan4life
11-23-2005, 07:22 PM
It's called a typo. They are sending us money.

Good trade. Rowand was easily the most expendable guy and prospects are just that, prospects. I'll officially go on record as liking this trade, just as I did last year with the Pods trade. This looks especially good assuming PK is back, which seems more likely with the Delgado deal.Thanks for clearing that up. I still don't like the trade, though.

broker3d
11-23-2005, 07:23 PM
And Paulie is NOT batting 5th. He'll bat 4th (hoping we can get him back). Thome and Dye will go 3rd and 5th, either or.

Pauly would absolutely bat 5th in this lineup. You want to go with the lefty, right, lefty mix. It WILL be Dye, Thome, Pauly. Neither Thome or Pauly are #3 hitters. They are not on base guys. They are big boppers who are to drive in runs. 4 and 5 hitters.

JackParkman
11-23-2005, 07:24 PM
And Paulie is NOT batting 5th. He'll bat 4th (hoping we can get him back). Thome and Dye will go 3rd and 5th, either or.

Maybe, maybe not. Ozzie might like the idea of going R-L-R-L in the middle of the order.

JermaineDye05
11-23-2005, 07:28 PM
:rolling:

Wow, we have way too much time on our hands! I love it :gulp:

lol sad thing is I did that exact same thing on my xbox

deck27
11-23-2005, 07:29 PM
In the Rowand-Thome trade thread, DSpivack suggested:


I don't predict the following, but I'd love to see it:

1. Podsednik
2. Dye

Vernam

Whoa, remember, Dye cannot bunt. Iguchi will stay at 2 unless they get someone who can handle the bat better.

deck27
11-23-2005, 07:31 PM
Sorry if this was already discussed in this thread, but can someone explain the nature of Thome's injury: What did he injure, is this a recurring problem, what is the liklihood of recovery (meaning return to old form) from this injury?

Back then elbow. We'll at least have the All-Backache team.

Tragg
11-23-2005, 07:31 PM
Pauly would absolutely bat 5th in this lineup. You want to go with the lefty, right, lefty mix. It WILL be Dye, Thome, Pauly. Neither Thome or Pauly are #3 hitters. They are not on base guys. They are big boppers who are to drive in runs. 4 and 5 hitters.
Neither is Dye. He has a .334 career OBP. We got by with him last year, but that's one area I had hoped we'd improve and move Dye down.

ilsox7
11-23-2005, 07:31 PM
For those who do not like this trade solely b/c of the propects involved, I highly suggest taking a look at Bill Simmons' column on espn.com regarding the Beckett trade. He discusses at least 10 or 12 "can't miss" prospects the Red Sox refused to trade throughout the 90's. You'll get a kick out of some of the names.

For those who do not like the trade b/c we are replacing Rowand with one of our minor league outfielders, probably Anderson, I'm not sure what to say. We are not asking Anderson to reinvent the wheel. It does not seem like even a small leap for him to replace Rowand, with a probability that he is better. As for Thome, again, it seems like a minimal risk that he at least replaces Crazy, with a probability that his production is leaps and bounds better, at only an additional $3MM per year.

I think that getting $22MM present day for our two prospects is money well received.

Sargeant79
11-23-2005, 07:34 PM
I'm extremely disappointed to see Rowand go, but I'm also extremely confident that this will turn out to be a good trade. As many posters have said before me, Rowand is expendable because of the glut of outfielders we have in our minor league system. Most people are lamenting the defense lost with Rowand, but if many of the scouts are correct, Brian Anderson will fare just as well on the field.

I will also admit that there are a lot of "what if's" with this trade, just as there were last year when Carlos Lee was shipped out of town. Getting Thome filled a need, but the question is how productive will he be given that he is recovered from injuries and is 35 years old. Also, will we be kicking ourselves for letting Haigwood and/or Gio go in a couple years? Only time will tell on that.

But for the 2006 season, a season in which we will be fighting to repeat as world champs, this trade needed to be done.

broker3d
11-23-2005, 07:34 PM
Neither is Dye. He has a .334 career OBP. We got by with him last year, but that's one area I had hoped we'd improve and move Dye down.

We do NOT have an IDEAL #3 hitter but of all our options, Dye is the best option.

ilsox7
11-23-2005, 07:36 PM
We do NOT have an IDEAL #3 hitter but of all our options, Dye is the best option.

How about a guy who gets on base at a .408 clip, hits about .280, has some power and drives in a ton of runs? Seems like that would be an ideal #3 hitter.

Tragg
11-23-2005, 07:36 PM
For those who do not like this trade solely b/c of the propects involved, I highly suggest taking a look at Bill Simmons' column on espn.com regarding the Beckett trade. He discusses at least 10 or 12 "can't miss" prospects the Red Sox refused to trade throughout the 90's. You'll get a kick out of some of the names.

For those who do not like the trade b/c we are replacing Rowand with one of our minor league outfielders, probably Anderson, I'm not sure what to say. We are not asking Anderson to reinvent the wheel. It does not seem like even a small leap for him to replace Rowand, with a probability that he is better.
I see your point but isn't that a bit inconsistent? After all, we're counting on a prospect to man CF.
I have no problem trading prospects - until they develop (if and when) they are just prospects; but they do have value and should be used to secure market value.
My feeling is I'll wait to see how Kenny spends the money. Right now, with konerko unsigned, we are minus 5-6 million in payroll. We were supposed to get a 5-10 million bump. That means Konerko + in additional FA signings.

WagMan
11-23-2005, 07:37 PM
I'd like to go on record as stating I don't like this trade. We're giving up a CF who should have won the gold glove. Lead the team in BA just 2 years ago and goes balls to the wall for ya. Thome is a giant question mark. If he can return to his old form, then okay. But, who's to say he will??? The only way this trade makes me happy is if we pick up another CF who's a quality #2 hitter.

And, as Rowand is my favorite player, this just sucks!

SoxFan76
11-23-2005, 07:40 PM
I personally think Anderson can match Rowand's 2005 numbers rather easily. If he hits .275 15 65 he's practically matched Rowand. Plus he plays better defense, or so I'm told.

So essentially KW swapped Carl Everett for Jim Thome...

Why would anybody be against this trade again?

ilsox7
11-23-2005, 07:44 PM
I see your point but isn't that a bit inconsistent? After all, we're counting on a prospect to man CF.
I have no problem trading prospects - until they develop (if and when) they are just prospects; but they do have value and should be used to secure market value.
My feeling is I'll wait to see how Kenny spends the money.

I don't think it's inconsistent b/c of what level of production we expect out of Anderson. He's a highly touted prospect. His defense, which is billed as being on the same level as Aaron, should not change no matter where he plays. It's his offense that will obviously be the question mark. However, expecting him to hit .250 - .270 with 10-15 home runs seems like the bottom of expectations. Could he perform worse than that? Of course. But it seems highly unlikely from his success at high level minor league baseball.

Meanwhile, it is extremely unlikely that we just gave up two #1 or #2 pitchers. It is actually much more likely we just gave up two guys who will not see the majors on any regular basis. The most likely scenario is that we gave up a guy who ends up being a solid #4 starter and a bullpen guy.

To make sense of all of this, and realizing that of course there is always risk involved, we most likely just gave up a below average offensive CF who plays above average defense, a solid starting pitcher in 2008 and beyond, a relief pitcher in 2008 and beyond, and in return we get a guy who will most likely hit .275, get on base a ton, drive in some runs, and hit 30-40 home runs. Plus we get $22MM.

So in my mind, when you look at what is most likely to happen, I like this deal. Of course, some think that Thome will not recover from his injury, or that both prospects we gave up will be aces. There is a chance that can happen, but I view it as highly unlikely. And that is where the risk comes into play.

Soxfanspcu11
11-23-2005, 07:50 PM
1. Pods
2. Iguchi
3. Thome
4. Konerko
5. Dye
6. AJ
7. Crede
8. Anderson
9. Uribe

with this lineup u alternate Lefties and Righties through the first 7 spots which prevent the opposing pitcher into getting a groove against Righties or Lefties.

Can't say I agree with this. I like the idea of having alternating righties and lefties, (this is part of the reason I think getting Thome is better then signing Thomas), however I think at this point you really have to put Iguchi in the 5 spot. He was a power hitter in Japan and KW has said that putting him in the 2 spot was completely against his natural ability. If it doesn't work, you could always go back, but you HAVE to at least give Gooch a chance to produce the offensive numbers that he is capable of putting up.

Tragg
11-23-2005, 08:03 PM
Meanwhile, it is extremely unlikely that we just gave up two #1 or #2 pitchers. It is actually much more likely we just gave up two guys who will not see the majors on any regular basis. The most likely scenario is that we gave up a guy who ends up being a solid #4 starter and a bullpen guy.

To me, the question there isn't what they will turn out to be - no one knows for sure. Philly doesnt know - they just add 2 to whatever they have and hpe they find 1 or 2 major league pitchers out of the bunch.

The question is what sort of value do pitchers of that minor league caliber have on the trade market? I'm not convinced we got full trade value for 2 minor league pitchers of that caliber.

ilsox7
11-23-2005, 08:07 PM
To me, the question there isn't what they will turn out to be - no one knows for sure. Philly doesnt know - they just add 2 to whatever they have and hpe they find 1 or 2 major league pitchers out of the bunch.

The question is what sort of value do pitchers of that minor league caliber have on the trade market? I'm not convinced we got full trade value for 2 minor league pitchers of that caliber.

Good point and a very good question. It appears that the 2 prospects were essentially used in place of sending one of the guys in our rotation to the Phillies. And the way I view it, including either one of our major league starters OR the prospects was worth $22MM.

That $22MM will, I hope, enable us to sign PK and maybe another, cheaper player who makes some sort of impact with the big club.

IronFisk
11-23-2005, 08:08 PM
Obviously, the intagables involved are hard to swallow for most here. Our pitching won the title, we all agree. Just how many one-run games did we play in again? Too many if you ask me. We definately needed more offense, and this is a GREAT move.

Rowand did his job well, and was a great team player. However, he was quite the black hole in the offense during the playoff run. I really like Brian Anderson too, and I feel in little time, all of us here are going to forget about the negatives of this move.

Now, Kenny will zero in on Konerko, and we'll be set.

Finally, Thome for Everett? DUH!

Banix12
11-23-2005, 08:36 PM
Anytime you deal prospects it can come back to bite you but realistically the sox probably don't have a ton of need for their minor league pitching the next two years or so, barring injury knock on wood.

I hate to see Rowand go mostly because of the kind of person he is and spokesman he has been for the team. His bat is easily replacable by Anderson. Rowand's power seemed to absolutely dissapear in the second half last season. The glove difference doesn't seem like a big net loss. Anderson just has a ceiling so much higher than Rowand, who seems to have pretty much reached his potential, that they have to see what he can do.

This trade is a gamble but I really like the gamble, especially if PK resigns. Thome should be able to bat in the #3 hole better than just about anybody the sox currently have or had last season.

for sentimental reasons I hate this trade, for baseball reasons I like it.

wsox3505
11-23-2005, 08:51 PM
I've been reading most of the posts since the trade announcement and here is a breakdown of my thoughts as to why this is a good deal and should be embraced by fans:

1. Thome will bat 4th or 5th depending on Konerko coming back or not. This means that KW will have more leverage in the $$ offered to Konerko, as he may or may not be needed at this point. (although we would love to have him back). A team like the angels may out bid us, but so what?

2. Phils were gracious enough to give us 22 mill to help out with his salary, essentially turning thome's deal into 8 mill/yr. Definitely worth the risk of him being 35 and hurt last year. And by the way, being hurt once, does not make him injury prone.

3. Delgado would not have been attainable for the same deal, mainly because the Marlins weren't going to include $$ in the deal, so for those of you who keep bringing up Delgado, please stop.

4. Gio and Haigwood? Who cares? what have they done in the bigs so far? We have plenty of other capable prospects in the system (i.e. liotta, tracey) and will continue to have quality drafts to restock for those two.

5. How do you think the Indians must feel right about now? How many times do we play them this season with THome in a wsox uni? 18? This is akin to the Red Sox getting someone like Andy Pettitte.

6. More importantly, how do you think the Cubs must feel right now? Coming off possibly a more heart breaking October than "Bartman", they're overspending for middle relief ex -wsox mutts eyre and probably Howry, while we get a great middle of the order hitter and arent close to being done.

Please, no more whining about an overrated "clubhouse grinder" in Rowand who was a small piece in a championship cog and is easily replaceable. And stop with the Gio/Haigwood stuff. . . .young pitching, especially below AA rarely pans out.

Go Wsox 2006 and beyond. One final note, KW. . . please bring Frank back!

nccwsfan
11-23-2005, 08:54 PM
This is a very good trade...KW does it again!

Going into the offseason it was clear to most of us that the #1 need was securing our 3 and 4 hitters. PK is still a very big part of this equation, and he does need to be re-signed, but it was out there that they were looking for a left-handed power hitter. Getting Thome on this squad has now filled one of the biggest holes on this team, AND we didn't have to give up any one of our starting pitchers to do so.

Like everyone else I'm sad to see Rowand go, but OF is a position of strength in this organization and Rowand frankly had the most tradeable value this winter. Knowing that Brian Anderson should be able to fill his shoes just fine makes me feel OK (and who's to say that they don't go after another CF from a team down south giving players away?).

Forget the prospects- come back in 10 years and rip the trade then, but until they've played regular time in the majors it means nothing. Very rarely does that really come back to bite you in the behind- we're getting a proven 40+ HR, 100+ RBI left handed power hitter, and again that fills a need.

Now get PK re-signed!

elrod
11-23-2005, 08:56 PM
How is Thome's health. He had surgery in August. Is he expected to be at full strength by Spring Training? If so, this was a great move. The only question I have about the trade is health. Otherwise, Thome+cash for ARow and two AA pitchers is great.

VivaOzzie
11-23-2005, 08:57 PM
Pauly would absolutely bat 5th in this lineup. You want to go with the lefty, right, lefty mix. It WILL be Dye, Thome, Pauly. Neither Thome or Pauly are #3 hitters. They are not on base guys. They are big boppers who are to drive in runs. 4 and 5 hitters.

OK, if you say so. :rolleyes:

All I'm saying is, if we resign Paulie, we are going to be paying him an arseload. And I don't think you drop an arseload to 5th in the lineup, you get your investment as may AB's as possible. Even when he was struggling a bit at the beginning of 2005, he stayed above the 5 spot. THEREFORE, if Paulie bats 5th for the 2006 Chicago White Sox, I believe I owe you a :gulp: and a well done, sir.

Banix12
11-23-2005, 09:14 PM
Pauly would absolutely bat 5th in this lineup. You want to go with the lefty, right, lefty mix. It WILL be Dye, Thome, Pauly. Neither Thome or Pauly are #3 hitters. They are not on base guys. They are big boppers who are to drive in runs. 4 and 5 hitters.

Thome isn't an on base guy? His career numbers say otherwise (career OBP. 408). Big Boppers are often 3 hitters, hell our usual #3 hitter over the years has been Frank Thomas, a stationary power hitter or as you put it "a big bopper who drives in runs".

We'll have the lefty, righty, lefty mix but instead it will be
Lefty Pods
Righty Iguchi
Lefty Thome
Righty Konerko (hopefully)

however I think you are just overreacting to the importance of lefty righty lefty mixes

JB98
11-23-2005, 09:16 PM
Can't say I agree with this. I like the idea of having alternating righties and lefties, (this is part of the reason I think getting Thome is better then signing Thomas), however I think at this point you really have to put Iguchi in the 5 spot. He was a power hitter in Japan and KW has said that putting him in the 2 spot was completely against his natural ability. If it doesn't work, you could always go back, but you HAVE to at least give Gooch a chance to produce the offensive numbers that he is capable of putting up.

Why do we HAVE to give Gooch a chance to hit for more power? We won a championship with him batting second.

Hitting in the two spot was "completely against his natural ability?" Could have fooled me. He's the best damn No. 2 hitter we've had on the Sox in my lifetime.

Viva Medias B's
11-23-2005, 09:16 PM
I am going to take a wait-and-see approach to this trade. On the surface, I like it. None of us wanted to see Aaron Rowand go, but most of us agree this trade helps us. As for Jim Thome's health, let's remember that we have the best in the business in Herm Schneider.

kevin57
11-23-2005, 09:17 PM
Emotionally, I hate to see Rowand go. As I think about it, it makes me sadder on that level, but rationally, the trade can be defended, if not applauded. The stats can be argued ... and we Sox fans can fret.

Remember, though, how we fretted when Carlos Lee and Maggs were replaced by Podsednik et al.

KW has earned our trust. Let's cut him some slack.

ilsox7
11-23-2005, 09:17 PM
Why do we HAVE to give Gooch a chance to hit for more power? We won a championship with him batting second.

Hitting in the two spot was "completely against his natural ability?" Could have fooled me. He's the best damn No. 2 hitter we've had on the Sox in my lifetime.

Well, I think if we acquire another guy in the 2-hole mold, you give Tad a chance to hit 5th or 6th and see what happens. But as our roster stands, Tad is the 2 hitter. I think it's morel ikely that you'll see him moved into an RBI/power role after 2006.

JB98
11-23-2005, 09:22 PM
Well, I think if we acquire another guy in the 2-hole mold, you give Tad a chance to hit 5th or 6th and see what happens. But as our roster stands, Tad is the 2 hitter. I think it's morel ikely that you'll see him moved into an RBI/power role after 2006.

The best thing about Tad is he can do just about everything and do it well. We can always find guys to put in the RBI/power role. There are a ton of them around the league. Guys who can handle the bat like Iguchi, well, let's just say they aren't as easy to come by.

ilsox7
11-23-2005, 09:24 PM
The best thing about Tad is he can do just about everything and do it well. We can always find guys to put in the RBI/power role. There are a ton of them around the league. Guys who can handle the bat like Iguchi, well, let's just say they aren't as easy to come by.

Exactly. And he's under contract for 2 more years. And seeing as though his value right now comes from doing unheralded things, he won't be demanding $10MM a year. If he has another productive year in 2006, don't be surprised to see him sign a nice extentsion with an unwritten agreement that he gets a shot at filling a more "productive" role in the future.

The Deacon
11-23-2005, 09:26 PM
This trade is awesome. We sold high, Rowand is not that great and totally replaceable. He cant bunt. He cant run the bases (if we would have lost 2 games in the series, rowand would be a GOAT b/c of his base running "skills"). Just becasue you bang against the walls doesnt mean you are a good player.
Ultimately, Thome takes the place of Everett at DH, this is a HUGE upgrade.

Kenny has a plan. I like it so far.

buehrle4cy05
11-23-2005, 09:29 PM
There probably have already been a million proposed lineups for next year, but here's my idea:
Pods
Anderson
Konerko (hopefully)
Thome
Dye
Iguchi
A.J.
Crede
Uribe

Ol' No. 2
11-23-2005, 09:31 PM
How about a guy who gets on base at a .408 clip, hits about .280, has some power and drives in a ton of runs? Seems like that would be an ideal #3 hitter.Wow, that would be awesome!!! Any idea where we might get a guy like that???:wink:

ilsox7
11-23-2005, 09:33 PM
Wow, that would be awesome!!! Any idea where we might get a guy like that???:wink:

I've been looking through all of the free agents available and simply cannot find someone who meets that description.

Maybe Kenny can work a trade or something.

JB98
11-23-2005, 09:37 PM
There probably have already been a million proposed lineups for next year, but here's my idea:
Pods
Anderson
Konerko (hopefully)
Thome
Dye
Iguchi
A.J.
Crede
Uribe

I don't like Anderson batting second. Put Iguchi back up there and move Anderson down to eighth where he belongs. We don't want to put undue pressure on him.

tsamdog
11-23-2005, 09:45 PM
I don't like Anderson batting second. Put Iguchi back up there and move Anderson down to eighth where he belongs. We don't want to put undue pressure on him.

I agree. Right now, Anderson is a free swinger, and the 2 slot requires bat control. Put him in the 7 or 8 slot and let the kid grow. I am still not sure that KW is done. The Pierre fixation has me baffled, though. I like the 'other' Florida centerfielder.

JB98
11-23-2005, 09:57 PM
I agree. Right now, Anderson is a free swinger, and the 2 slot requires bat control. Put him in the 7 or 8 slot and let the kid grow. I am still not sure that KW is done. The Pierre fixation has me baffled, though. I like the 'other' Florida centerfielder.

Pierre is essentially the same player as Pods, except he's not as good as Pods. Why would we need two of the same type? I share your confusion about the Pierre fixation.

russ99
11-23-2005, 10:05 PM
You guys are all missing the point...

This is an exceptional trade. This gives KW flexibility not only at DH and/or first (Thome's healthy or this would have not been done) but also in the outfield.

I loved Rowand and what he brought to the table, but his trade value was at the highest it will ever be, and if the Sox are better next year, so be it.

Regardless of the readiness of Anderson, KW can either play an up-until-last-year career CF in Podsednik in center next season and deal with a strong hand in getting either a replacement CF to hit second or get the most plentiful and undervalued talent in the majors, corner outfielders.

KW can now make offers or moves on Frank, Konerko, Pierre and/or a young corner outfielder from a vantage point of strength and payroll flexibility as opposed as dealing with all GM's and agents trying to fleece the Sox by knowing that the Sox obviously need a player to fill a huge hole.

Kudos to KW for making another gutsy move to benefit the club. :)

RowandKicksAss07
11-23-2005, 10:10 PM
Can anyone guess where this move puts the Sox payroll at?

trublue87
11-23-2005, 10:16 PM
I'm sorry to see Rowand go. While his defense obviously didn't falter this past year, I wasn't always happy with his bat - but I still liked what he stood for as a part of a great team. Good luck to him! - I'm willing to give this trade a chance....

PKalltheway
11-23-2005, 10:19 PM
I can tell you one thing. It is absolutely imperative of Ken Williams to get Juan Pierre. Pierre is more of a safety net than anything. If KW does not get Pierre, get ready to hold your breath Sox fans. Things could get interesting in 2006.

ilsox7
11-23-2005, 10:20 PM
I can tell you one thing. It is absolutely imperative of Ken Williams to get Juan Pierre. Pierre is more of a safety net than anything. If KW does not get Pierre, get ready to hold your breath Sox fans. Things could get interesting in 2006.

Uhh, why? Pierre defensively is much much worse than Aaron or Anderson. KW's next big thing is to re-sign PK. And those will be the major moves this team makes this off season.

Flight #24
11-23-2005, 10:37 PM
IMO the Sox got a deal here, assuming of course that Thome's healthy. Using Carlos Delgado as the market proxy for a high-salaried slugger.

Delgado's owed $48M over the next 3 years and the Marlins are sending $7 of that. So the Mets are on the hook for $41/3, or just under $14M/yr. The Sox get Thome at $8M/yr. The Mets also sent their #s 2 and 4 prospects (per BA), both of whom are a lot closer to the bigs than the 2 the Sox sent. Guessing at the Sox top 5, it's got McCarthy, Anderson, Young as the definite cream of the crop, then a group including Gio, Haigwood, Fields, Sweeney, Owens. And neither Gio or Daniel is likely to arrive prior to '07 per my understanding, if then.

Now let's look at some stats:
Carlos Delgado 2002-2004: .283 / .401 / .559 / 36HR / 117RBI
Jim Thome 2002-2004: .281 / .409 / .610 / 47HR / 118RBI

I.e., prior to his 2005 injury year, Thome was as good or better of a hitter than Delgado, albiet 2 years older.

Sox get a guy who's more of an injury risk and older, that's true. But they gave up worse prospects, took on a whole lot less salary, and got a guy who if his 2005 injury is fully healed (which it should be - it wasn't that complicated), should put up numbers in the same ballpark as Delgado, or possibly better. That difference is a young, good D-avg hit CF. And the Sox had one to spare.

JB98
11-23-2005, 11:00 PM
I can tell you one thing. It is absolutely imperative of Ken Williams to get Juan Pierre. Pierre is more of a safety net than anything. If KW does not get Pierre, get ready to hold your breath Sox fans. Things could get interesting in 2006.

I think it's imperative that we let Anderson play. He's ready. It's time.

Jjav829
11-23-2005, 11:06 PM
Can anyone guess where this move puts the Sox payroll at?

I actually did some calculations a bit earlier and if I have everything correct, the payroll stands at approximately $68.6 million after this move. That is taking into account some estimated guesses at what several arbitration eligible players will sign for. But figure it's around $70 million assuming we keep everyone on the roster.

santo=dorf
11-23-2005, 11:06 PM
I think the most important part of this trade is for once I didn't jinx the Soxby putting a guy they were after in a Sox uniform! :o: (Beltran, Johnson, Wright, Clement, etc...)

Soxfan35
11-23-2005, 11:14 PM
I will wait until the free agent and trade frenzy has all died down to fully evaluate this trade. Everyone got all crazy last year after the lee trade and look what happened. that move just triggered a ton of other 'under the radar' type moves. so lets just wait and see what else kenny has up his sleeve.

Tragg
11-23-2005, 11:33 PM
Never mind.

SOX ADDICT '73
11-23-2005, 11:43 PM
https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/bschalle/www/Baseball%20pics/thome.jpg
Jim Thome - The 2006 American League Comeback Player of the Year!

richb2
11-23-2005, 11:45 PM
I might get burnt by this post come september -but i feel that this was a great trade that will only make this team stronger in the long run. The only thng that can make this a bad trade is if thome is not healthy, but kenny is not a dummy so I would have to guess that he is healthy. All championship teams need to adapt and get better for the next year because the competition will get stronger and not stand pat.
The outfield defense on this team might even be stronger after this trade if Anderson lives up to his potental with the glove like he did in the outfield in the minor leagues. This trade will take the pressure of him to produce with the bat when he first starts the season off next year. If thome stays healthy and konerko is still with the sox, and my gut feeling is that he will be back if I had to put money on it-what added offense the sox will have, and the great thing is that the sox did not give up any of their stud pitchers or Mccarthy wow.
The one down side is if konerko is back Frank is gone. That will be a sad day but baseball life goes on . I will miss Arron rowand he was a gitty player who played with his heart and tried every day while with the Sox. I will miss him but he was not mickey mantle or willie mays, for me this was a great trade and I will stand by it if it turns sourer.

Stroker Ace
11-24-2005, 12:07 AM
I just have a feeling that this trade is going to blow up in our faces. I don't like it at all.

Fake Chet Lemon
11-24-2005, 12:12 AM
Providing Konerko is back this is an awesome move. I feared the Ramirez-Ortiz righty-lefty duo. Now we have our version, with better pitching.

DaleJRFan
11-24-2005, 12:24 AM
Hell, he wears those cool looking high socks, so he can't be all that bad...

filmnews
11-24-2005, 02:03 AM
Jim Thome will be great, if he is healthy. I can't wait until soxfest.

TheOldRoman
11-24-2005, 03:29 AM
Chemistry won't be an issue. It might be hard on Crede losing his best friend, but I'm sure he be fine. Thome is a great guy and great in the clubhouse. He will fit right in.
In one of my White Sox Magzines from this year, Crede was interviewed. Under the question "If you could go to dinner with one famous person living or dead, who would it be?", he answered... Jim Thome.
He will finally get that chance.

Theanticub
11-24-2005, 05:43 AM
Thank you for giving up a gold glove CF (or should of been) for an over the hill DH.

Worst trade in the history of the white sox.

I am incredibly pissed.

Mr. White Sox
11-24-2005, 05:46 AM
:thud:

ilsox7
11-24-2005, 05:58 AM
Thank you for giving up a gold glove CF (or should of been) for an over the hill DH.

Worst trade in the history of the white sox.

I am incredibly pissed.

Good to see the Dark Clouds back.

tstrike2000
11-24-2005, 07:46 AM
Maybe I haven't read through enough posts, but I want to mention 2 things I haven't read yet. First for all people opposing this trade, we were all hoping to get Griffey during our offensive slump last year who is a year older than Thome, has a slightly better career average but OBP is less than Thome's. Nobody cared about Griffey's age because he was having a comeback year even though he's so much more of an injury risk. The reports are that Thome is going to be 100% come spring training. Also, we'll miss Rowand, but I think some of his defense is smoke and mirrors. Yes, he caught everything hit to him, but someone with more range and speed can get to balls he can't. I just mean I don't think we'll miss his defense as much as some people think. Plus if the afforementioned Brian Anderson can hit roughly .265 12-14 HR, that's Rowand's 05. This at the expense of a few great years from Thome....worth the risk.

RedHeadPaleHoser
11-24-2005, 08:06 AM
Just woke u, saw the back of the ST and heard the news on TV...sat rigt down and read over the article...and I feel sad for Rowand, because of his love for this team. But, in a weird way, I'm really excited for getting Thome. A LF power bat kinds tells me that they're looking at nailing Konerko back in. Mind you...we lost NO pitching in this. Makes me feel REALLY bad for Thomas though...

RedHeadPaleHoser
11-24-2005, 08:07 AM
And Happy Thanksgiving to you. I'm gonna do a search and see what your feedback was for the C Lee trade...yeesh....:?:

Crede_Fan
11-24-2005, 08:11 AM
And Happy Thanksgiving to you. I'm gonna do a search and see what your feedback was for the C Lee trade...yeesh....:?:


He wasn't here for the Lee trade. :tongue:

CallMeNuts
11-24-2005, 08:38 AM
Thank you for giving up a gold glove CF (or should of been) for an over the hill DH.

Worst trade in the history of the white sox.

I am incredibly pissed.

GMAB. And more importantly . . . give Kenny a break. After all the moves he put together last off-season to assemble the 2005 WORLD SERIES CHAMPION CHICAGO WHITE SOX, the least you can do is to wait and see what the complete plan is for 2006.

Brian Anderson is ready to start in the majors. And behind Anderson, there is Owens, Young & Sweeney. There is no question that we have a surplus of outfielders. Trading from our surplus is smart.

And we need help in the DH / 1B area. I think everybody was ready to see Carl go. We can't count on the remote chance of a Frank comeback. I'd like to see us resign Paulie, but we can't pay him like he is the one and only, break the bank, deserving guy on this team, as our pitchers are going to be reaching their paydays over the next couple of years. In a worst case scenario, none of those guys are back and we need some DH / 1B help.

Thome has an awesome history. And he's the lefthanded hitter we've wanted for years. Obviously, his health is the risk. But KW and the Sox docs are in a much better position to judge that risk than me. Thome is a hard-working, model teamate and model citizen. And our White Sox were one of two teams he'd wave his no-trade clause to join.

This is far from the "worst trade".

RedHeadPaleHoser
11-24-2005, 08:39 AM
He wasn't here for the Lee trade. :tongue:

Thanks - I just woke up when I posted that so I didn't see the join date. RHPH stands corrected.

nccwsfan
11-24-2005, 08:59 AM
Thank you for giving up a gold glove CF (or should of been) for an over the hill DH.

Worst trade in the history of the white sox.

I am incredibly pissed.

Oh my.:?:

Care to elaborate on why this is the 'worst' trade in the history of the White Sox??? Amazing.

Knoxville Sox
11-24-2005, 09:58 AM
There was a time when the Phillies used to get paid for getting rid of their best players. Gerry Nugent is probably rolling over in his grave. I like this new tradition! Hey Phils, let us know when you want to make that deal for Howard 3 or 4 years down the line!

:supernana::supernana::supernana::supernana:

Let us face the facts: the Phillies pushed the panic button. Their best threat in the lineup gets a season-ending injury, the first major injury of his career. They checked his age and, abandoning all sense of reason, decided to get rid of Thome. The history of the player in question does not suggest he'll face such an injury again, nor does it suggest that Thome is finished as a viable threat. The advances in medical science, combined with the character, work ethic, and talent of the player in question, indicate the opposite: Thome will be back to his typical form.

KW improved this team. He brought in a prime time power hitter...and got paid to do it!!!!! You can talk about the "IFs" regarding Thome, but the Phillies have plenty of "IFs" on their side as well. Thome isn't entering unfamiliar territory. Rowand, on the other hand, is about to experience the pleasures of Philadelphia first-hand. Thome, unquestionably the superior player, will have an easier time adjusting to his situation than will Rowand.

The balance of this lineup will be awesome. We'll have a team with viable speed, power, and pitching. It'll look more like the elite teams from the 1970s than the station-to-station baseball being played elsewhere.

gowhitesox
11-24-2005, 10:11 AM
If Thome can stay injury free he could be a big help. Would Thome be the DH? if Konerko resigns? If Konerko stays then I sort of think that the White Sox wouldn't resign Frank Thomas.

As of right now, it doesn't sound like a very good trade but we need to wait and see how things play out.

Kenny Williams knows something that we don't.

Steelrod
11-24-2005, 10:29 AM
Make no mistake about it, I love Aaron Rowand, however........
I will remind you that Kenny did what no other GM has done since the Old Roman himself. I put my trust and faith in him, so far he's been money in the bank. And if this trade turns out poorly, I will still applaud the effort and intent!
If you doubt what Kenny is capable of, wait til opening week and look at our players fingers. Nuff said!

Blancos Medias
11-24-2005, 10:45 AM
I always hated to see Thome bat against us. Glad to see him aboard. Even at 35 he is a power threat, probably good for 40 HRs as usual. Imagine having two guys capable of 40 HRs in the Sox lineup.

I agree with losing prospects is not a big deal; the list of prospects that are now high school baseball coaches is huge.

I like Rowand, wish him the best in Philly. As everyone said, it's time for Brian Anderson to get his shot. Failing that, two other OFs ready to go in the farm system.

To be honest, I never heard much about Pierre until the trade rumors started since I don't follow the NL much.

IMO, sign Konerko, go with our young outfielders, and somehow bring back Frank. That works for me, and I'd LOVE to see a repeat!

Jjav829
11-24-2005, 11:56 AM
Let us face the facts: the Phillies pushed the panic button. Their best threat in the lineup gets a season-ending injury, the first major injury of his career. They checked his age and, abandoning all sense of reason, decided to get rid of Thome. The history of the player in question does not suggest he'll face such an injury again, nor does it suggest that Thome is finished as a viable threat. The advances in medical science, combined with the character, work ethic, and talent of the player in question, indicate the opposite: Thome will be back to his typical form.


Not true at all. They Phillies didn't panic. Thome got hurt and their stud prospect Ryan Howard finally got a chance to play. In that time Howard proved himself to be a bigtime player in the making. They had to decide between Thome and Howard and that's a no-brainer. Anyone in their situation would choose Howard. That meant that Thome had to go and we benefited from that situation.

Bucky F. Dent
11-24-2005, 12:00 PM
I agree with losing prospects is not a big deal; the list of prospects that are now high school baseball coaches is huge.

Yep! There are a legion of "can't miss" prospects in this and every other organization who have missed.

Go with the proven commodity. Sorry to see Aaron go, but you have to continue to take steps to improve this team, and a LH power hitter is definitely a positive step.

Now sign Paulie and thank Big Frank for the memories.

delben91
11-24-2005, 12:02 PM
I like this trade, for many of the reasons that have been discussed in the 40 pages of this thread.

I'll love it if (when?) Konerko comes back.

longshot7
11-24-2005, 12:03 PM
Good trade. Kudos to whoever said this is essentially Thome for Everett. Standing pat is a surefire recipe for disaster - let me tell you about watching the 2003 Angels.......

Thanks Kenny!

nccwsfan
11-24-2005, 12:39 PM
Not true at all. They Phillies didn't panic. Thome got hurt and their stud prospect Ryan Howard finally got a chance to play. In that time Howard proved himself to be a bigtime player in the making. They had to decide between Thome and Howard and that's a no-brainer. Anyone in their situation would choose Howard. That meant that Thome had to go and we benefited from that situation.

I'll take it one step further, crazy as it may sound- this trade could actually benefit BOTH teams. :o: :o: :o:

http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6489.jpg http://espn.go.com/i/mlb/profiles/players/6161.jpg
"That's just crazy talk. The purpose of a trade is to fleece the other team..."

Hitmen77
11-25-2005, 09:02 PM
The latest Trib article says the Phillies get Rowand, Haigwood, and a player to be named later. So, what up with Gio Gonzolez? Is he part of this trade? Will he be the PTBNL? Does the Trib have this wrong?

chisox77
11-25-2005, 09:16 PM
From all indications, Gio is the other prospect, along with Haigwood. However, I like this trade - Thome for 8 million a year, a DH/1B who will most likely bounce back strong after his only "injury season" - and folks, consider the excellence of the White Sox training staff, led by Herm Schneider (there is a reason why he has been with the Sox for about 25 years, with resume including the rehabilitation of Bo Jackson, as well as a pretty good track record for keeping other White Sox players healthy and well conditioned through grinding seasons).

As I stated before, Thome's presence will provide Konerko with added incentive to stay - a proven veteran power hitter who will bat after him, LH, with strong production numbers, great attitude, a winning track record, and the desire to even help talk to Paulie in Arizona about staying - what more could you ask. Already, Thome is being a leader on this team.

I love Rowand, and I always will. But let's face it, the cleanup spot in the order needed an upgrade (and dealing Rowand, at least for now, is meant to give Anderson a real shot), and even if Thome's production declines a bit (say 35/105/.275, .370 OBP - very conservative estimate for him), it still makes life better for Konerko, as well as for the other hitters. But KW is not finished. He has a pattern of deal making - a splash move followed by another splash move, or a move that strengthens that first move. And then there will be the resigning of Konerko.

:cool:

gowhitesox
11-25-2005, 09:42 PM
Just because the guy had one injury prone year doesn't mean won't be of help. Although I do think we gave up too much to get him. Noticed on AOL that both players passed their physicals today. So lets hope that he still has homeruns left in him.

jabrch
11-26-2005, 12:57 AM
I like the trade. Thome is a stud LH bat. I hope it isn't Gio, but it looks like it is. That's what happens when you get a team to pay the majority of a contract for a guy of Thome's calibre.

TheKittle
11-26-2005, 03:13 PM
Having a few days to think over this trade, I really like it. I was never a Rowand fan. Not that he's a bad player but he certainly wasn't "great"

I'm glad the White Sox didn't stand still and think they could go back to the playoffs with the same lineup. They must have learned from doing nothing after winning the AL West in 83, even though they needed a SS and a closer for 84.

So Thome will cost the White Sox about $6 million a year. Not bad for a power hitter. Can he stay healthy? Who knows. Guys get injuried all the time. Dye was injuried the past few years but he stayed healthy.

And why move Iggy from batting second??? He did a great job last year. Iggy should continue to bat second.

kwolf68
11-27-2005, 11:31 AM
ONE of Gio or Haigwood will be in Philly next year and I bet both of them will be mainstays on their staff by 2007. Unless Gio developes that third pitch and shows he can be durable, he may be a bullpen guy, but Haigwood has Mark Buerhle type potential, not overpowering but has great command and throws harder.

Look, it's fine if you like this trade, but you are completely delusional if you think the Sox got over on the Phillies. We just traded our two best lefty pitchers in our entire organization and our best pitcher prospect.

And I am sorry to argue with anyone, but Gio IS CANT MISS...barring injury he has the stuff to pitch in the bigs. He is pitching mid 90s with an A+ curve. He doesn't have the change developed yet to become starting MLB stock right now, but this is very risky to trade him and another very young lefty who was practically unhittable last year.

There are many ways to look at this trade and both sides are very right in many ways, but those saying we ripped Philly are just blind as hell.

Taliesinrk
11-27-2005, 03:07 PM
We just traded our two best lefty pitchers in our entire organization and our best pitcher prospect.

Better than Mark and Neil?

ilsox7
11-27-2005, 04:29 PM
ONE of Gio or Haigwood will be in Philly next year and I bet both of them will be mainstays on their staff by 2007. Unless Gio developes that third pitch and shows he can be durable, he may be a bullpen guy, but Haigwood has Mark Buerhle type potential, not overpowering but has great command and throws harder.

Look, it's fine if you like this trade, but you are completely delusional if you think the Sox got over on the Phillies. We just traded our two best lefty pitchers in our entire organization and our best pitcher prospect.

And I am sorry to argue with anyone, but Gio IS CANT MISS...barring injury he has the stuff to pitch in the bigs. He is pitching mid 90s with an A+ curve. He doesn't have the change developed yet to become starting MLB stock right now, but this is very risky to trade him and another very young lefty who was practically unhittable last year.

There are many ways to look at this trade and both sides are very right in many ways, but those saying we ripped Philly are just blind as hell.

No player who hasn't played above A ball is can't miss. He may be great, he may not. To say he is can't miss is foolish.

Lprof
11-27-2005, 09:23 PM
No player who hasn't played above A ball is can't miss. He may be great, he may not. To say he is can't miss is foolish.

RIGHT ON!!! These kids may--or may not--pan out, but one thing I am sure of: Sox fans drink Sox Koolaid about Sox prospects far too easily. Think of all the "can't misses" who have missed over the last 20 years. With the possible exception of Jeremey Reed (and I don't care what he turns out to be, since he helped bring us Garcia and a World Series), I cannot think of a single minor leaguer/youngster that Kenny has traded that turned into much. I can live without Kip Wells and Josh Fogg.You have to take risks. As long as Kenny doesn't do something reckless like trade McCarthy, I am willing to trust him.

jabrch
11-27-2005, 09:55 PM
This deal truly is a win/win deal.

Philly had nowhere to play Thome. They have the cash to afford to pay 22mm of their deal. They had no CF. They now have a CF, they have two solid pitching prospects. And they don't have to worry about playing either Howard or Thome out of position. We needed a big LH bat in the middle of the order. We needed a DH. We have pitching depth. We have OF depth.

Really...nobody got anyone here. It was a good deal for both sides.

Palehose13
11-27-2005, 10:01 PM
This deal truly is a win/win deal.

Philly had nowhere to play Thome. They have the cash to afford to pay 22mm of their deal. They had no CF. They now have a CF, they have two solid pitching prospects. And they don't have to worry about playing either Howard or Thome out of position. We needed a big LH bat in the middle of the order. We needed a DH. We have pitching depth. We have OF depth.

Really...nobody got anyone here. It was a good deal for both sides.

Agreed. If it ends up being win-win that only makes KW more "attractive" to deal with when other GM's are looking to make a deal. I would imagine that these guys don't like getting fleeced and if they are human, it leaves a bitter taste in thier mouth when it happens. I realize that their is a lot more when talking deals, but the fact that KW appears to be fair should work in his favor. He has learned a lot since late 2000, and from what I've seen he is moving in a positive direction.